No School in Two Years

[Laura Corin]

There was a moment when Calvin was a toddler and I was living in Hong Kong when I found myself spending time online to avoid him.  I didn't want to be in Hong Kong and I was struggling with being 'just a mother'.  It was easy to avoid him, because I had full time help.  After a while (I don't know how long - it crept up on me) I realised what I was doing, talked to Husband about it, took a deep breath and changed.

 

It is possible, but one has to be prepared to start again and take responsibility.

[Soror]

There was a moment when Calvin was a toddler and I was living in Hong Kong when I found myself spending time online to avoid him.  I didn't want to be in Hong Kong and I was struggling with being 'just a mother'.  It was easy to avoid him, because I had full time help.  After a while (I don't know how long - it crept up on me) I realised what I was doing, talked to Husband about it, took a deep breath and changed.

 

It is possible, but one has to be prepared to start again and take responsibility.

I've had those times as well, what was the most helpful for me was to go cold turkey tbh but that doesn't work for alot of people. Getting off the computer all at once made me realize how negatively  it was affecting me, physically, emotionally, it is a vicious cycle but it can really feed the depression.

[fairfarmhand]

Here's my reponse

 

Dear friend,

 

I know this letter may make you hate me. I really don't like writing it because I hate conflict and I want you to like me. We all don't want to be perceived as a busybody who sticks their nose in other people's business/ So really. I promise, I'm not trying to nitpick, criticize or be too harsh. If I could avoid this email at all I would. But I feel that God calls us to sometimes say the hard thing, gently and with love. He is not only a God of Love, but he is also a God of Truth, and truth demands that I be honest with you and write this letter.

 

I'm concerned about the direction of your home. It seems unfair for your children to be in a situation like this. You see, as a homeschooler, I feel that God has entrusted me with my children's future. I need to prepare them for that, wherever it takes them. I don't feel that I am being a good testimony to the world when I don't give education a priority in my home because that means that I am breaking the laws of the United States which we are commanded to follow.

 

I know you are busy lady. You have ministries that are important to you. However, I really need you to consider your life in comparison to the life of King David. David was so concerned with building his kingdom that he forgot to do right by his sons. Was David doing God's work in Israel? Yes, in one respect , he was in establishing the Nation. However, He also failed his children greatly during that same period of time and the tale was told in the end, when his sons were too far gone to turn around. I know you probably find your speaking, blogging, and teaching gratifying. But, taking care of your kids and teaching them is also crucial in this season of time. Teaching blogging and speaking is usually much more gratifying than wiping noses and washing dishes. Yet, in the Scripture, we are taught that God's work begins at home. It is in the home where we demonstrate our service that nobody notices, which is really the service that counts most with God (Matthew 6:5-6).

 

I can't tell you to stop all of your ministerial work. However, I do believe that there is plenty of time for you to do SOME ministry work, teach your children, keep your home properly, and enjoy life a little bit. This will take self-denial and self control, especially since it seems that you have fallen into some unhealthy habits and patterns in your home. Yet, we have a God of second chances, grace, and strength. He can help you get back on track with your priorities, household work, and homeschooling.

 

I would urge you to take a media fast for about two weeks. During this time, turn off all social media, cell phones and television. Honestly seek God's direction for your home. Pray that he would convict you of your sins and humbly turn to him in repentance for your failures. During this time, tell parishioners what you are doing and leave a Facebook post that you will be unavailable for a few weeks. Tell folks to call your landline if they need you.

 

During this period, determine whether you are making the best use of your time. Time is precious. Do we really want to be women with a handful of witty Facebook posts to bring to the feet of the Master or some thoughtful blog articles? Or wouldn't it be better to have articulate, educated children who have shared Christ across the world?

 

You know, I've got some concrete ideas to help you reform your habits if you are interested. If not, then just skip reading to the closing of this letter.

 

(here is where I would insert a numbered list of suggestions)

 

My sweet sister, again, know my heart. It is not to hurt you; Scripture is clear that Iron Sharpens Iron and under God, I am responsible to provoke you to Love and Good works. I've had others give me the same kind of reality check. While it hurt initially, in the end, I was grateful for the wake-up call. I love your family and pray that you will at least give my words some thoughtful, prayerful consideration. The Lord's blessing unto you.

 

Chelli

 

[kiana]

Yes. Quite honestly if her 10yo can read, intensive tutoring through the summer with something like MUS would probably get him caught up to where he would fit in at school, if he doesn't have major LDs. If he does have major LDs, he needs an IEP at school anyway. The 8yo who can't read clearly would need tutoring in that as well, but catching up an 8yo is a lot easier. MUS is ideal for catching them up in my opinion.

[albeto.]

If I got an email like that, I wouldn't finish reading it and would immediately delete the person from my contacts list. Actually, I couldn't finish reading it myself, and I'm not the parent to whom it would be sent.

 

I think if Chelli wants to help her friend, she has to speak her friend's language, not her own.

 

ETA: Oh that sounds so mean, and I really didn't want it to. I started off saying much more but thought that sounded mean. What I mean to say is, when someone confronts me with the thing that stresses me out, I tend to shut it out. When confronted with the problems this shutting out creates, that stresses me out. Even more. Because I should know better, and I do, but... stress. So, this is probably more a commentary of my own inadequacies, but I can't help it from looking at Chelli's friend's pov from my perspective. I assume she's potentially emotionally fragile (and let's face it, hiding on facebook when you have a houseful of kids who need your attention suggests either fragility or enormous immaturity - in which case confronting her with it will likely inspire an immature defencive position). An email like this may appear to her as the following message: I'm Lady-Has-It-All-Together, Telling You To Get It Together For Crying Out Loud. That isn't likely to get the desired results. That's likely to increase the stress and increase the avoidance of stress. If it's a simply maturity issue, telling an immature person to grow up isn't likely to work either, and all that will have happened is one person who knows and cares will have been alienated.

[Cinder]

I'm kinda thinking it is unfair that y'all are adding so much to this thread that I'm trying to keep up with when I have already mentioned that due to life (our normal extenuating circumstances plus this recent trauma which got significantly worse today, btw), we are trying hard not to be slackers on the "do school" thing.  Not that you are responsible for us.  We are responsible to do school whether it is a hot thread or trauma or just a crappy hand at life.  But you aren't making it easy  :001_rolleyes:

 

ETA on Wed at 6:30am:  I just made it to this post and now there are added pages.  I may never catch up. <sigh>

 

ETA2: Just realized that no one else is likely this far behind on the thread so I'm typing this to myself <sigh>

 

Well, Pamela, I'm with you. I can only seem to get through one or two pages of this thread a day and I finally got to your post--more than 2 days after you posted it. It's on page 9. I decided to finish all of page 9 so that when this posts I'll know to go back to page 10 to resume reading since the forum usually decides you've read everything to the end--where your reply is posted. And now I see there are at least 11 pages in this thread . . . I hope it doesn't poof before I'm done. lol

 

ETA: Now I've posted I see there are 15 pages! <sighing with you> :laugh:

[73349]

It sounds like she needs two big ideas:

 

1) Sometimes we have to parent ourselves.

I.e., if your teen was spending too much time on FB and not getting anything done, wouldn't you do something like not allow it for a period of time (say, until Easter) and then have ironclad rules in place (say, not unless you've done an hour of school)? Maybe you need technical enforcement help like a timer on the TV and deleting your apps. Maybe you need someone to report to at 2 PM each day. If you aren't successfully meeting your legal obligation to educate your children of compulsory age, it's time to do something about it (and that might include seeing a counselor).

 

2) You shouldn't believe everything you think.

No, mid-afternoon is not "too late" to do school: it's too late to have five hours of school, but it's not too late to do something.

No, it does not take all day to make meals and do dishes for a family this size: PB & J and an apple on a paper plate and a glass of milk is a perfectly good lunch.

No, you do not have to choose between spiritual development and academic success: your children are awake about a hundred hours a week, and that's time for both.

Spot the errors in your own thinking. Again, a trained cognitive-behavioural counselor can help.

[Sahamamama]

 If I got an email like that, I wouldn't finish reading it and would immediately delete the person from my contacts list. Actually, I couldn't finish reading it myself, and I'm not the parent to whom it would be sent.

 

I think if Chelli wants to help her friend, she has to speak her friend's language, not her own.

 

Since her friend is a pastor's wife in the same denomination as Chelli's husband, this probably is her friend's language. Anyway, it's an example of what could be said, not an edict to say it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Here's my reponse

 

Dear friend,

 

I know this letter may make you hate me. I really don't like writing it because I hate conflict and I want you to like me. We all don't want to be perceived as a busybody who sticks their nose in other people's business/ So really. I promise, I'm not trying to nitpick, criticize or be too harsh. If I could avoid this email at all I would. But I feel that God calls us to sometimes say the hard thing, gently and with love. He is not only a God of Love, but he is also a God of Truth, and truth demands that I be honest with you and write this letter.

 

I'm concerned about the direction of your home. It seems unfair for your children to be in a situation like this. You see, as a homeschooler, I feel that God has entrusted me with my children's future. I need to prepare them for that, wherever it takes them. I don't feel that I am being a good testimony to the world when I don't give education a priority in my home because that means that I am breaking the laws of the United States which we are commanded to follow.

 

I know you are busy lady. You have ministries that are important to you. However, I really need you to consider your life in comparison to the life of King David. David was so concerned with building his kingdom that he forgot to do right by his sons. Was David doing God's work in Israel? Yes, in one respect , he was in establishing the Nation. However, He also failed his children greatly during that same period of time and the tale was told in the end, when his sons were too far gone to turn around. I know you probably find your speaking, blogging, and teaching gratifying. But, taking care of your kids and teaching them is also crucial in this season of time. Teaching blogging and speaking is usually much more gratifying than wiping noses and washing dishes. Yet, in the Scripture, we are taught that God's work begins at home. It is in the home where we demonstrate our service that nobody notices, which is really the service that counts most with God (Matthew 6:5-6).

 

I can't tell you to stop all of your ministerial work. However, I do believe that there is plenty of time for you to do SOME ministry work, teach your children, keep your home properly, and enjoy life a little bit. This will take self-denial and self control, especially since it seems that you have fallen into some unhealthy habits and patterns in your home. Yet, we have a God of second chances, grace, and strength. He can help you get back on track with your priorities, household work, and homeschooling.

 

I would urge you to take a media fast for about two weeks. During this time, turn off all social media, cell phones and television. Honestly seek God's direction for your home. Pray that he would convict you of your sins and humbly turn to him in repentance for your failures. During this time, tell parishioners what you are doing and leave a Facebook post that you will be unavailable for a few weeks. Tell folks to call your landline if they need you.

 

During this period, determine whether you are making the best use of your time. Time is precious. Do we really want to be women with a handful of witty Facebook posts to bring to the feet of the Master or some thoughtful blog articles? Or wouldn't it be better to have articulate, educated children who have shared Christ across the world?

 

You know, I've got some concrete ideas to help you reform your habits if you are interested. If not, then just skip reading to the closing of this letter.

 

(here is where I would insert a numbered list of suggestions)

 

My sweet sister, again, know my heart. It is not to hurt you; Scripture is clear that Iron Sharpens Iron and under God, I am responsible to provoke you to Love and Good works. I've had others give me the same kind of reality check. While it hurt initially, in the end, I was grateful for the wake-up call. I love your family and pray that you will at least give my words some thoughtful, prayerful consideration. The Lord's blessing unto you.

 

Chelli

 

I think this is great (and I'm agnostic, LOL)! Personally, I think this should be right up her alley unless she is an even bigger hypocrite than we already know she is. Her husband is a minister? They are active in the church? In her denomination, it is widely believed that homeschooling is THE way to raise good Christians? She has a Christian woman's blog and speaks at Christian women's retreats and conventions? Frankly, this woman SHOULD have major guilt over this level of hypocrisy. 

 

I am a frank person. This is a frank letter. By all outward accounts, she should respond to this. And remember this friend is asking for help. And she is well aware of her Christian duty here. None of this will be news to her. But it may be shockingly helpful to hear it from someone else and not just from her own (ignored) conscience every day.

 

I would advise her to eliminate the internet entirely. 

[fairfarmhand]

 If I got an email like that, I wouldn't finish reading it and would immediately delete the person from my contacts list. Actually, I couldn't finish reading it myself, and I'm not the parent to whom it would be sent.

 

I think if Chelli wants to help her friend, she has to speak her friend's language, not her own.

 

But the friend is a minister's wife. Personally, I would need a different kind of appeal (as you would) but I'm also not the kind of person who believes that the only way to have a "good Christian home" is to homeschool, that public school is Satanic, etc. I think the only real success with this mind set would be to address it as a spiritual problem.

Since her friend is a pastor's wife in the same denomination as Chelli's husband, this probably is her friend's language. Anyway, it's an example of what could be said, not an edict to say it.

 

 

Well I think this is great (and I'm agnostic, LOL). But the friend? This should be right up her alley unless she is an even bigger hypocrite than we already know she is. Her husband is a minister? They are active in the church? In her denomination, it is widely believed that homeschooling is THE way to raise good Christians? She has a Christian woman's blog and speaks at Christian women's retreats and conventions? Frankly, this woman SHOULD have major guilt over this level of hypocrisy. 

 

I am a frank person. This is a frank letter. By all outward accounts, she should respond to this.

 

And personally, I would advise her to eliminate the internet entirely. 

Yeah, that's what I was going for.  This type of letter (not this exact letter) addresses the SPIRITUAL paradigm that exists, i.e. ministry is more important than taking care of the home and teaching the kids. While the lady in question probably wouldn't admit that, but she's living as if she believes it.

[albeto.]

Since her friend is a pastor's wife in the same denomination as Chelli's husband, this probably is her friend's language. Anyway, it's an example of what could be said, not an edict to say it.

 

Oh for sure, and you're probably right with regards to the friend's language. And it's written clearly with a nice intent. No doubt. I edited to try and explain my comment while you posted (I saw this after my edit).

 

 

[umsami]

My Mom insists on paper plates, bowls, and cups when the kids and I visit.  She can't handle the thought of the dishes, even though I do them.  I was horrified at the thought of all that waste, but it actually works very well.   She has a large laundry basket that she puts one of those big black garbage bags in.  It is by the table.   After each meal, the kids throw their stuff away.  We usually wash the cups and use normal silverware.  It makes life 1000x easier.  The only dishes we do are the pots/pans.  It may really make a difference.  Depending on what she buys, some of the paper plates we even recycle.  

 

I like the idea of getting your DH involved, and hopefully her local community  I'm wondering if a cleaning service could be brought it or a group of volunteers.  Help her start from a good place.  Stock the cabinets with paper plates.  Stock the freezer with freezer meals.  Look into enrolling the kids into a virtual school for next year (probably too late for this year), but in the meantime, give the 10 year old a math placement test and then maybe do CLE or something else.  Math Mammoth works well for self-teaching too.  

 

Another thing to consider is having somebody work as an accountability partner and put on one of those internet timers on her computer. The kind that limits access to X hours/day. 

[fairfarmhand]

If I got an email like that, I wouldn't finish reading it and would immediately delete the person from my contacts list. Actually, I couldn't finish reading it myself, and I'm not the parent to whom it would be sent.

 

I think if Chelli wants to help her friend, she has to speak her friend's language, not her own.

 

ETA: Oh that sounds so mean, and I really didn't want it to. I started off saying much more but thought that sounded mean. What I mean to say is, when someone confronts me with the thing that stresses me out, I tend to shut it out. When confronted with the problems this shutting out creates, that stresses me out. Even more. Because I should know better, and I do, but... stress. So, this is probably more a commentary of my own inadequacies, but I can't help it from looking at Chelli's friend's pov from my perspective. I assume she's potentially emotionally fragile (and let's face it, hiding on facebook when you have a houseful of kids who need your attention suggests either fragility or enormous immaturity - in which case confronting her with it will likely inspire an immature defencive position). An email like this may appear to her as the following message: I'm Lady-Has-It-All-Together, Telling You To Get It Together For Crying Out Loud. That isn't likely to get the desired results. That's likely to increase the stress and increase the avoidance of stress. If it's a simply maturity issue, telling an immature person to grow up isn't likely to work either, and all that will have happened is one person who knows and cares will have been alienated.

 

 

Ahhh...thanks for the clarification.

 

Yes, it is so important to be gentle and understanding. It's such a delicate balance...speaking the truth without tipping someone over the edge and shutting them down.

 

[Alte Veste Academy]

An email like this may appear to her as the following message: I'm Lady-Has-It-All-Together, Telling You To Get It Together For Crying Out Loud. That isn't likely to get the desired results. That's likely to increase the stress and increase the avoidance of stress.

 

I was just coming back to add that what I would add to the letter, probably even lead with, was what Chelli said before about how earlier in her homeschooling, she herself did not feel she was doing enough and changed her own ways. I thought I read that earlier anyway...everything is blending together now. Even though I'm sure Chelli's homeschool was never even close to the train wreck this one is, relating in this way could eliminate the perception of a holier-than-thou attitude in the advice and aid being given.

[fairfarmhand]

I was just coming back to add that what I would add to the letter, probably even lead with, was what Chelli said before about how earlier in her homeschooling, she herself did not feel she was doing enough and changed her own ways. I thought I read that earlier anyway...everything is blending together now. Even though I'm sure Chelli's homeschool was never quite the train wreck this one is, relating in this way could eliminate the perception of a holier-than-thou attitude in the advice and aid being given.

 

Yes, I would totally add a whole lot of my own struggles and an enormous dose of " I KNOW YOU CAN DO THIS GIRL! TAKE SOME BABY STEPS! It will be okay, just start trying. Don't be overwhelmed by the past, but reach for the future one day at a time."

[MrsWeasley]

Really? Perhaps she's just lazy. Really lazy and irresponsible. I'm not sure I'd be so quick to excuse this with a medical condition. Lots of people have the problems you mention in your post and lead responsible lives.

 

Still, if she wants to improve, I definitely would look into an underlying health concern. Most healthy people don't live like that, even if they are lazy and irresponsible, and an underlying condition that continues to be untreated will sabotage her efforts to effectively parent and homeschool those kids. I think the evaluation needs to come first.

[fairfarmhand]

And on that note, I'd better get off this computer and educate my own children.

[albeto.]

But the friend is a minister's wife. Personally, I would need a different kind of appeal (as you would) but I'm also not the kind of person who believes that the only way to have a "good Christian home" is to homeschool, that public school is Satanic, etc. I think the only real success with this mind set would be to address it as a spiritual problem.

 

 

Yeah, that's what I was going for.  This type of letter (not this exact letter) addresses the SPIRITUAL paradigm that exists, i.e. ministry is more important than taking care of the home and teaching the kids. While the lady in question probably wouldn't admit that, but she's living as if she believes it.

 

I hear you, and I'm sorry if I came across dismissive. I'm just thinking, this isn't a "spiritual issue," and addressing it with a "spiritual paradigm" is useless ultimately. This is a practical issue and no amount of sideline cheerleading is likely to change her behavior in a practical way. And that's what she needs to change - her behavior. So what's inspiring her current behavior? If it's stress avoidance, then I think it's more helpful to learn how to identify that stress, and subsequently to learn how to effectively respond to that stress. Appealing to people in the bible as good or bad stress managers doesn't tell her anything more than she's failing. She knows that much. What she doesn't know is what to do about it. Taking a break from the thing that brings her relief isn't likely to happen Reminding her how she's failing God isn't going to make her buck up, but hide further. At least, it would have this effect on me, but I am not a minister's wife and I admittedly don't speak that language (although I am conversant in it, having spoken it fluently for years ;)).

 

I'm sorry, I don't mean to squash what is a truly kind and compassionate letter, but only to offer that it might not be received with the desired intention.

 

ETA: Oh, it looks like once again I'm a day late and a dollar short and you guys figured out already what I meant to say. :)

[texasmama]

Still, if she wants to improve, I definitely would look into an underlying health concern. Most healthy people don't live like that, even if they are lazy and irresponsible, and an underlying condition that continues to be untreated will sabotage her efforts to effectively parent and homeschool those kids. I think the evaluation needs to come first.

These folks appear to have some serious screens/internet/media addiction.  The mom is pregnant so I assume she has a medical professional monitoring her, as most pregnant ladies do.

 

When I suggested that they need an intervention, I was not using hyperbole.  I suspect that neither of them realizes how far they have drifted from what is good or right or even minimally acceptable in just about every realm of their home, family, and parenting. 

 

I keep wanting to volunteer to help if this family is in my area, but I don't want to clean house.  I want to CLEAN HOUSE, if you know what I mean.  I've participated in interventions before.  Done correctly, they are the ultimate in "tough love".  If we (the collective "we") as Christians and homeschoolers won't speak up and step in, who will? 

 

Go, Chelli!  We are standing behind you.  Your presence in this family's life is not an accident.  Do what you can, deliver the message, offer the assistance within your ability without straining your own family, alert those with influence long-term, and then let it be in God's hands. 

[Murphy101]

Stupid question on my part...

 

If my friend, like a real friend not just an aquiantence, told me she was so overwhelmed that they didn't even open school books and the kitchen sink had maggots and yet she felt she had to maintain some internet/speaking/church leadership nonsense - I'd spaz out.

 

I'd be OMG sweetie I had no idea you were going through this. This is nuts. If your primary vocation from God is to be a home maker and home schooling mother, then that has to be a bigger priority than writing or talking about those things to other people. A woman can only do so much and there's no shame in saying you have surpassed your limits and need to reign things in to what really matters to you and that God has called you to do. Do you need help getting started? It sounds really mountain level overwhelming to get back on track by yourself. It sure would be really depressing to me and hard to cope with by myself. How about I come over help? Or maybe you could hire a service? Just to get you back to a clean slate starting point to reduce the over whelming? How about coops and such? Just to have some personal accountability outside the house and more motivation for the kids?

 

To me, friendship means getting in the trench with them to have their back.

 

If they don't want my help and don't seem to think their life is a problem... Well I wouldn't mind them not wanting my help. It sounds humiliating to have friends over seeing maggots and whatnot. But if they refused to see a problem, I'd be very upset and possibly not able to be friends. I can't just watch self destruct in progress. But more likely, it would make me seriously question the character of the person. I can get depression and feeling hopeless. But I can't wrap my brain around it boiling down to being more concerned about their social image than their home and kids. And yeah, I've met few of those. And yeah, I'm not friends with them and I'm very okay with it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

Change is needed. Definitely. Changes in habits and behavior. What inspires her current behavior? Indeed. What will inspire change though, too. Practical change sometimes needs a spiritual wake-up call. It begins with inspiration most often for me. That's the thing that makes you start what will ultimately be a long, hard process.

[texasmama]

I hear you, and I'm sorry if I came across dismissive. I'm just thinking, this isn't a "spiritual issue," and addressing it with a "spiritual paradigm" is useless ultimately. This is a practical issue and no amount of sideline cheerleading is likely to change her behavior in a practical way. And that's what she needs to change - her behavior. So what's inspiring her current behavior? If it's stress avoidance, then I think it's more helpful to learn how to identify that stress, and subsequently to learn how to effectively respond to that stress. Appealing to people in the bible as good or bad stress managers doesn't tell her anything more than she's failing. She knows that much. What she doesn't know is what to do about it. Taking a break from the thing that brings her relief isn't likely to happen Reminding her how she's failing God isn't going to make her buck up, but hide further. At least, it would have this effect on me, but I am not a minister's wife and I admittedly don't speak that language (although I am conversant in it, having spoken it fluently for years ;)).

 

I'm sorry, I don't mean to squash what is a truly kind and compassionate letter, but only to offer that it might not be received with the desired intention.

For a Christian, this situation is a spiritual issue.

[elegantlion]

Stupid question on my part...

 

If my friend, like a real friend not just an aquiantence, told me she was so overwhelmed that they didn't even open school books and the kitchen sink had maggots and yet she felt she had to maintain some internet/speaking/church leadership nonsense - I'd spaz out.

 

I'd be OMG sweetie I had no idea you were going through this. This is nuts. If your primary vocation from God is to be a home maker and home schooling mother, then that has to be a bigger priority than writing or talking about those things to other people. A woman can only do so much and there's no shame in saying you have surprised your limits and need to reign things in to what really matters to you and that God has called you to do. 

 

This is what I don't get. How can you feel like an adequate leader to SPEAK about leadership when your home is in "chaos." I'm not a church goer anymore, but that seems to violate several spiritual principles and, honestly, if I knew what was going on/not going on in the home about this person, it would invalidate ANY advice she might be speaking on. It damages her credibility as a leader. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Is virtual school possible in such a low-functioning home? I've never done it - this is a sincere question - doesn't somebody still have to get the kids up and ready to learn, and supervise their studies and their day? Do parents help with homework?

[Runningmom80]

And on that note, I'd better get off this computer and educate my own children.

I had to do this this morning. Lol

[*Lulu*]

For a Christian, this situation is a spiritual issue.

I am a Christian who gets really sick of the Christian culture spiritualizing stuff.

 

(Don't tell me that you pray each morning about if God wants you to wear the blue or green sweater because you want to do his will in every aspect of your life. I am confident that God is not going to care about the color palate of your outfit. And, no, I am not exaggerating. I've heard this come out of more than one mouth in earnest.)

 

But there IS a spiritual element to how we make our lives. There IS a spiritual element to our choices as we parent. And, while all the factors playing in this aren't spiritual or able to be solved by spiritual means and methods, there is an element of spirituality that can be addressed.

 

I don't think that homeschooling is automatically "what God wants". I do think that it can be though.

 

God wants us to make good choices as parents. We should always be trying to make the best choice for our children. Sometimes we make what we think is the right choice out of many equally okay options. Sometimes we have one option clearly superior to another. If homeschool is the clearly superior option for your child, I think it can be a God honoring choice. That doesn't make the family that chooses PS ungodly.

 

If this mom is sold on the paradigm that homeschooling is always the godly path the most clear way to light a fire under her will be by addressing the spiritual implications of not caring for her children in responsible ways.

[LucyStoner]

I think that people have talked a lot about giving this mom the benefit of the doubt.

 

I want to talk about giving Chelli the benefit of the doubt. She knows the woman, comes from a similar religious background, has gotten her own homeschool on track and is presumably a nice, non jerktastic, person. Chelli, truthfully, thank you for thinking about these kids and trying to figure out if there is anything to be done to help them/improve their situation.

 

The truth is I don't know exactly what I would do in this situation but I think that whatever Chelli does will be done with love and good intent and that she knows better than everyone of us removed from the situation. I can see both sides of the report/don't report issue. From a practical standpoint reporting may cut off any line Chelli has to help. That said, it isn't as though from hours away and with her own life to live there is a lot she can or should do. I don't think she should be denigrated for not MHOB or for either deciding to report or not report. Appealing to the family directly seems like a good place to start.

 

I do think that ideally there should be some safeguards in place to reduce the likelihood of someone passing this nonsense off as homeschooling. Even in "high regulation" states, those safeguards are not really in place. I think the lack of this harms lots of kids and may sabbatoge the future legality of homeschooling. But wishing ain't getting so there's no good place to report.

 

Teachers who circle the wagons and protect bad teachers bother me. Homeschoolers who circle the wagons and protect bad homeschoolers also bother me but because I am a homeschooler, it may bother me more.

 

That said, this woman is not homeschooling or an unschooler really. This is neglect. Asking for help is a step but it is a small and pointless step if she is not ready to use that help. My sympathies lie with those kids who are on their own while mom can't get off the screen.

 

Chelli, you are in a tight spot trying to help and I just think that it's very nice of you to care.

[texasmama]

I am a Christian who gets really sick of the Christian culture spiritualizing stuff.

 

(Don't tell me that you pray each morning about if God wants you to wear the blue or green sweater because you want to do his will in every aspect of your life. I am confident that God is not going to care about the color palate of your outfit. And, no, I am not exaggerating. I've heard this come out of more than one mouth in earnest.)

 

But there IS a spiritual element to how we make our lives. There IS a spiritual element to our choices as we parent. And, while all the factors playing in this aren't spiritual or able to be solved by spiritual means and methods, there is an element of spirituality that can be addressed.

 

I don't think that homeschooling is automatically "what God wants". I do think that it can be though.

 

God wants us to make good choices as parents. We should always be trying to make the best choice for our children. Sometimes we make what we think is the right choice out of many equally okay options. Sometimes we have one option clearly superior to another. If homeschool is the clearly superior option for your child, I think it can be a God honoring choice. That doesn't make the family that chooses PS ungodly.

 

If this mom is sold on the paradigm that homeschooling is always the godly path the most clear way to light a fire under her will be by addressing the spiritual implications of not caring for her children in responsible ways.

100% agreed

 

There is a reason we are twins. :)

[Murphy101]

For a Christian, this situation is a spiritual issue.

I don't know that it is. And if it isn't, it could be spiritual abuse to say it is.

 

Why this is happening matters.

 

If she is spouting BS in a leadership position bc she is more concerned about her public image than maggots and basic reading and math for her kids? Yes. That is a spiritual issue. Because she is a fraud and a liar.

 

And it might be that, but it sounds to me like the real issue is depression, fear, and addiction (which is likely stemming from depression and fear). Telling a severely depressed person that in addition to sucking as a home maker and mother, it's because they are spiritually lacking is abusive and even if it wasn't, it isn't constructive help.

[texasmama]

I don't know that it is. And if it isn't, it could be spiritual abuse to say it is.

 

Why this is happening matters.

 

If she is spouting BS in a leadership position bc she is more concerned about her public image than maggots and basic reading and math for her kids? Yes. That is a spiritual issue. Because she is a fraud and a liar.

 

And it might be that, but it sounds to me like the real issue is depression, fear, and addiction (which is likely stemming from depression and fear). Telling a severely depressed person that in addition to sucking as a home maker and mother, it's because they are spiritually lacking is abusive and even if it wasn't, it isn't constructive help.

It's not just the mom.  The dad is also complicit.  I'm not into spiritual shaming, and this is not what that is when you hear me saying there is a spiritual component. 

 

My point was that, as a Christ-follower, there is a spiritual component of parenting, marriage, homeschooling, etc.

 

I'm not rigid or legalistic.  My attitude is not "These folks are failing God!".  They are failing their children.  Both of these parents, not just mom.  All while pastoring a church and running Christian ministry blogs.  The spiritual piece of this situation cannot really be separated out.

[fairfarmhand]

I don't know that it is. And if it isn't, it could be spiritual abuse to say it is.

 

Why this is happening matters.

 

If she is spouting BS in a leadership position bc she is more concerned about her public image than maggots and basic reading and math for her kids? Yes. That is a spiritual issue. Because she is a fraud

 

And it might be that, but it sounds to me like the real issue is depression, fear, and addiction (which is likely stemming from depression and fear). Telling a severely depressed person that in addition to sucking as a home maker and mother, it's because they are spiritually lacking is abusive and even if it wasn't, it isn't constructive help.

 

You are right. I think before the email message I sent about spiritual issues it might be more appropriate to ask probing questions to get to the heart of WHY this is ongoing.

 

Yes, there are LAZY homeschoolers who don't do what they're supposed to do because Its hard, It's boring.

 

There are also depressed homeschoolers who CAN'T do what they are supposed to do.

[forty-two]

This is what I don't get. How can you feel like an adequate leader to SPEAK about leadership when your home is in "chaos." I'm not a church goer anymore, but that seems to violate several spiritual principles and, honestly, if I knew what was going on/not going on in the home about this person, it would invalidate ANY advice she might be speaking on. It damages her credibility as a leader. 

 

I can imagine just sort of falling into it - kind of a variant on being a theoretical expert on parenting before kids or homeschooling before actually starting.  You know how you *mean* to parent and homeschool, you *know* it will work - you just haven't quite gotten around to fully implementing it yet.  But you're *going* to, you truly sincerely think this is the best way and you're totally going to do it as soon as you can get things together.  And every day you mean to make it better - living it out is always just around the corner.  And the fact you spend all your time escaping into your theoretical fantasy of how to live the ideal life just makes that life seem all the more real to you.  And you know it's the ideal, even if you aren't living up to it right now (and really, do any of us embody an ideal perfectly?), and you know *just* how to achieve it - as soon as you manage to muster up a bit of self-discipline you'll be following it, too, and you *know* it will be wonderful.

 

Yeah, when you're a person who loves theory and sees the move from theory to practice as just a "short hop", when life hits it can be a short hop from theory to fantasy.  For me that sort of avoidance correlates with being depressed, and when I was barely functioning I had lost all perspective of how far I'd fallen - I knew it wasn't good, but I really, truly had no idea *how* not good.  When I started coming out of the depression fog I was shocked at how skewed my perception had gotten. 

 

So she could very well know that the current situation is not ideal - that there is a gap between what she preaches and what she practices - but to see it as a much smaller gap than it really is, comparable enough to "no one meets an ideal" to be "ok".

[Murphy101]

It's not just the mom. The dad is also complicit. I'm not into spiritual shaming, and this is not what that is when you hear me saying there is a spiritual component.

 

My point was that, as a Christ-follower, there is a spiritual component of parenting, marriage, homeschooling, etc.

 

I'm not rigid or legalistic. My attitude is not "These folks are failing God!". They are failing their children. Both of these parents, not just mom. All while pastoring a church and running Christian ministry blogs. The spiritual piece of this situation cannot really be separated out.

I didn't say you were. I was simply pointing out that no it might not be. Why matters.

 

The father is likely feeling stuck too. Depression can be contagious. Really it can. Watching someone you love spiral into the abyss and feeling helpless about it (whether they actually are doesn't always change feeling that way) can be exhausting, stressful, and yes, lead to depression too. And it is often a gradual fall, so they may feel like, "oh god, how'd we end up like this?!"

 

In a loving relationship, it isn't as easy as laying down the law. I can't even fathom my dh walking in the door and saying, "Enough! I'm enrolling the kids in school and hiring a maid because you suck at this." I'm 100% sure my dh wouldn't phrase it that way, but I'm also 100% sure that's still what I would hear. If my dh knew I was depressed, feeling insecure, tended to isolate - he might keep his mouth shut about my church involvement bc he is worried that without it, I would get a lot worse.

 

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm giving all parties the benefit of the doubt. Because that's what I would do if they were my friends and really it's the only thing I think would be constructive to change, should they want things to change.

[texasmama]

I didn't say you were. I was simply pointing out that no it might not be. Why matters.

 

The father is likely feeling stuck too. Depression can be contagious. Really it can. Watching someone you love spiral into the abyss and feeling helpless about it (whether they actually are doesn't always change feeling that way) can be exhausting, stressful, and yes, lead to depression too. And it is often a gradual fall, so they may feel like, "oh god, how'd we end up like this?!"

 

In a loving relationship, it isn't as easy as laying down the law. I can't even fathom my dh walking in the door and saying, "Enough! I'm enrolling the kids in school and hiring a maid because you suck at this." I'm 100% sure my dh wouldn't phrase it that way, but I'm also 100% sure that's still what I would hear. If my dh knew I was depressed, feeling insecure, tended to isolate - he might keep his mouth shut about my church involvement bc he is worried that without it, I would get a lot worse.

 

I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm giving all parties the benefit of the doubt. Because that's what I would do if they were my friends and really it's the only think I think would be constructive to change, should they want things to change.

Thanks for clarifying.  I understand your point now.

[Sdel]

And it might be that, but it sounds to me like the real issue is depression, fear, and addiction (which is likely stemming from depression and fear). Telling a severely depressed person that in addition to sucking as a home maker and mother, it's because they are spiritually lacking is abusive and even if it wasn't, it isn't constructive help.

 

 

I'm out of likes....so I just wanted say, I so agree.  Depression would explain the behaviors.  As for dad....he could be just as mentally ill.  It happens.

 

But I want to point out, if both parents are suffering mental illness it might be best for authorities to become involved. 

 

 

Stefanie

[Lawana]

I have been following this thread with morbid and avid fascination. The horrible part is that I see in myself some of the tendencies that could, if given the right incubation, lead me to behave in a distressingly similar manner. Fortunately, I have not, but I have a close relative that has and does.

 

As mentioned by a pp, I have a strong suspicion that Chelli's friend is externally motivated in the extreme. If she is surrounded by IRL friends who regularly swap maggot stories and consistently feed her the ebil public school line, and doesn't have the voices that counter this influence, then she may be thinking it is not as bad as all that. There does seem to be part of her that recognizes that all is not as it should be, which is why she reached out to Chelli.

 

She likely feeds her need for approval and adult interaction from her online and IRL ministry activities. As thankless and unrecognized as mothering, home keeping, and homeschooling are, it is somewhat understandable that she neglects them in favor of activities that are rewarding.

 

In my case, I have a dh that would never tolerate the living conditions of this family. When dh goes out of town on business, I sometimes let the dishes pile up for 2-3 days, which is part of why I see a faint reflection of myself in this situation. I know for sure I would not be as consistent with as many things as I am if not for his influence.

 

Between the pathological tolerance for unhealthy living conditions exhibited by both adults in the household, and the messages she is getting from her friends, she seems to lack a strong, clear voice for acceptable behavior standards. And if she is truly as externally motivated as I think she is, she is not likely to take the bull by the horns on her own, and might struggle mightily with acknowledging that ultimately, it up to her, and only her, to be the one to do what needs to be done.

 

The calls for accountability are appropriate. I think another factor needs to be to begin to surround herself with people who are actually acting responsibly on the fronts that she is not. Other homeschoolers, if she really wants to continue that, that are consistently getting school done and the dishes cleaned up. Not super homeschoolers, but good average, steady ones. She needs to stop listening to people who laugh at maggots, and start listening to those who believe, and act on the belief, that children need their parents to care for them as well as about them.

 

As bad as the situation is, there is hope, I think. Perhaps she sees in Chelli what she desires to be, but doesn't have it together enough to do herself. She needs different voices.

[albeto.]

It's not just the mom.  The dad is also complicit.  I'm not into spiritual shaming, and this is not what that is when you hear me saying there is a spiritual component. 

 

My point was that, as a Christ-follower, there is a spiritual component of parenting, marriage, homeschooling, etc.

 

I'm not rigid or legalistic.  My attitude is not "These folks are failing God!".  They are failing their children.  Both of these parents, not just mom.  All while pastoring a church and running Christian ministry blogs.  The spiritual piece of this situation cannot really be separated out.

 

I don't think for a moment you or fairfarmhand ever intended for shame to be the message. I'm sure neither one of you even considered it even for a moment. Nevertheless, the message is there, and for someone who is sensitive to shame, it's glaring. I have no idea of Chelli's friend is sensitive to change, and ultimately, if Chelli wants to help, she has to maintain a presence of security for her friend. Ultimately, she has to stroke her ego without pushing too hard or she'll likely be cut off. That's not ideal, but it's probably the reality, and nothing any of us can say or want will change that. So what to do with it?

 

Failing children is a practical issue. Intentions can be interpreted through spiritual philosophy just like they can be interpreted through say, a Stoic philosophy. At the end of the day, we're talking concrete events - behaviors. While thoughts are included in behaviors, they're still interpreted through the lens of one's personal experience, lessons learned, hopes and fears, etc, etc, etc. So ultimately, this is a practical issue for me because addressing it as a spiritual one is just spinning words in a desired direction. But that's simply my opinion on the matter, and I understand you likely don't agree. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to persuade you, just explain that I don't dismiss the spiritual component, but I think it's a veneer. 

 

Anyway, I keep wondering what the husband's role in all this is. I mean, seriously. A man running a church can't bother to keep an eye on the immediate needs and emotional health of his immediate family? Why is the friend doing voluntary public service when little people who are directly and solely dependent upon her are being neglected? How does he not see this? How is he not bothered by this? How can he stay up late with her and watch tv while the kids make a mess that will be ignored all day? In what universe does he think this is normal? Are they using heroin? I mean really, wtf is going on in that home that something so obvious is being missed? Is he pressuring her to look like the perfect minister's wife outside? Is he manipulating her by validating her laziness only to use it against her later? There is something going on in that family, and I don't think Cheri has the opportunity to find out simply because she's so far away. 

[beaners]

For a Christian, this situation is a spiritual issue.

For me, as a Christian, saying that I was ALSO failing God on top of all the other areas where I am failing would NOT make me get my act together. It would definitely make me shut down further. But I am coming from a place where I do sometimes avoid things as long as possible because they are stressful and out of hand. I see anxiety in this mother because that is where I personally skew. We don't have maggots and my kids get regular instruction in math, but things *do* get crazy here sometimes. Someone else telling me all about myself like that, even with the best and kindest intentions, would send me over the edge to just block them out instead of trying to get things back on track.

[TammyS]

I think this is great (and I'm agnostic, LOL)! Personally, I think this should be right up her alley unless she is an even bigger hypocrite than we already know she is. Her husband is a minister? They are active in the church? In her denomination, it is widely believed that homeschooling is THE way to raise good Christians? She has a Christian woman's blog and speaks at Christian women's retreats and conventions? Frankly, this woman SHOULD have major guilt over this level of hypocrisy. 

 

 

I'm not sure she's a hypocrite.  I think of hypocrites who espouse a standard for others with no intention of living up to it themselves.  I suspect that she wants to live up to the standard that she is espousing, but that she is failing (miserably).  For sure that makes her a failure (for the moment, at least) but I think that you can fail to uphold your standard without being a hypocrite.

 

I'm sure she DOES have major guilt and shame over her situation, which probably contributes to the situation itself.  The worse it is, the worse she feels about it, the worse she feels about it, the more she wants to avoid it....and there is her friend, the internet, waiting to take her away (mentally, anyhow).

[texasmama]

For me, as a Christian, saying that I was ALSO failing God on top of all the other areas where I am failing would NOT make me get my act together. It would definitely make me shut down further. But I am coming from a place where I do sometimes avoid things as long as possible because they are stressful and out of hand. I see anxiety in this mother because that is where I personally skew. We don't have maggots and my kids get regular instruction in math, but things *do* get crazy here sometimes. Someone else telling me all about myself like that, even with the best and kindest intentions, would send me over the edge to just block them out instead of trying to get things back on track.

I think I've addressed my "stance" already.

 

I don't advocate anyone telling the woman she is "failing God".  I simply said that for a Christian, this situation does have a spiritual component.  I think "failing God" is a club used to manipulate other Christians, frankly.  If someone told me I was "failing God", I would tell them to F off.  (Excuse the rude language.)  So I think maybe my thoughts have been conflated with something else or other people's perceptions.

 

No one (including Chelli) really has enough information to determine causation.  A situation that has gone on for so long and become so severe likely is pretty complex and needs a complex solution.  I view Chelli as someone who is measured, intelligent, and capable so I trust that she will act the best way she can on behalf of this family given her distance from the situation and her own family responsibilities. 

[Soror]

I don't think for a moment you or fairfarmhand ever intended for shame to be the message. I'm sure neither one of you even considered it even for a moment. Nevertheless, the message is there, and for someone who is sensitive to shame, it's glaring. I have no idea of Chelli's friend is sensitive to change, and ultimately, if Chelli wants to help, she has to maintain a presence of security for her friend. Ultimately, she has to stroke her ego without pushing too hard or she'll likely be cut off. That's not ideal, but it's probably the reality, and nothing any of us can say or want will change that. So what to do with it?

 

Failing children is a practical issue. Intentions can be interpreted through spiritual philosophy just like they can be interpreted through say, a Stoic philosophy. At the end of the day, we're talking concrete events - behaviors. While thoughts are included in behaviors, they're still interpreted through the lens of one's personal experience, lessons learned, hopes and fears, etc, etc, etc. So ultimately, this is a practical issue for me because addressing it as a spiritual one is just spinning words in a desired direction. But that's simply my opinion on the matter, and I understand you likely don't agree. I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to persuade you, just explain that I don't dismiss the spiritual component, but I think it's a veneer. 

 

Anyway, I keep wondering what the husband's role in all this is. I mean, seriously. A man running a church can't bother to keep an eye on the immediate needs and emotional health of his immediate family? Why is the friend doing voluntary public service when little people who are directly and solely dependent upon her are being neglected? How does he not see this? How is he not bothered by this? How can he stay up late with her and watch tv while the kids make a mess that will be ignored all day? In what universe does he think this is normal? Are they using heroin? I mean really, wtf is going on in that home that something so obvious is being missed? Is he pressuring her to look like the perfect minister's wife outside? Is he manipulating her by validating her laziness only to use it against her later? There is something going on in that family, and I don't think Cheri has the opportunity to find out simply because she's so far away. 

I agree.

I believe fairfarmhand's letter is beautiful and thoughtful but if I were in that situation I would only find it harmful.

 

I know for me (and that is the only experience I can really speak about) I am aware when I screw up and people going on and on about it doesn't help me but only make me feel worse and think why should I even bother. I'm guessing she knows it isn't right, that is why she is bringing it up. For me I would focus on the facts and what needs to be done. I'm sure it isn't lost on her that she is being a hypocrite. I would be blunt about the fact that it obviously has to change and brainstorm with her about changes, making whatever suggestions I could but I wouldn't go on about how she is failing God, her husband and her family because for me thinking on that would only lead to more depression.

 

For me it would be more like, alright I(you) have screwed up but how can I(you) change that now

what needs to change

what changes can you handle first

what is the end goal(to start with what are the legalities for hs'ing in your state)

how will you make sure these changes take place

what support do you have or could find- thereapist, outside accountability- friends- online school- etc- she doesn't have to tell them all her troubles if she doesn't want- it can be more like- I'm struggling to get done what I need to get done- can I check in with you?

 

Of course I'm more of a matter of a fact person and eloquence isn't my strong suite(as my posts show :) ), my own approach would similarly alienate some. It is up to Chelli to figure out what approach, or mix of approaches, of the many offered here would best reach her friend, while staying true to her own thoughts and beliefs and I don't envy her position.

[beaners]

I think I've addressed my "stance" already.

 

I don't advocate anyone telling the woman she is "failing God". I simply said that for a Christian, this situation does have a spiritual component. I think "failing God" is a club used to manipulate other Christians, frankly. If someone told me I was "failing God", I would tell them to F off. (Excuse the rude language.) So I think maybe my thoughts have been conflated with something else or other people's perceptions.

 

No one (including Chelli) really has enough information to determine causation. A situation that has gone on for so long and become so severe likely is pretty complex and needs a complex solution. I view Chelli as someone who is measured, intelligent, and capable so I trust that she will act the best way she can on behalf of this family given her distance from the situation and her own family responsibilities.

Sorry, by the time I had finished my post you had posted saying you didn't mean "failing God." It is the way the whole thing reads to me, that these problems are a spiritual issue, but that is probably because of my own perspective that I mentioned.

[texasmama]

Sorry, by the time I had finished my post you had posted saying you didn't mean "failing God." It is the way the whole thing reads to me, that these problems are a spiritual issue, but that is probably because of my own perspective that I mentioned.

I understand.

 

There is no way that anyone can read this situation and not view it through their own lens.  It hits close to home for many of us for different reasons.

 

I posted quite a bit upthread (while mindreading and filling it details) how it "feels" to me.  But that is just the sum total of what I know from this thread, my own personal experiences and biases, etc.  I might be completely off base.  Likely, I am, in fact.

 

I'm glad Chelli is the one dealing with this and not me because it is really complicated.  I think this thread has been important for her to process and get support and thoughts.

[fairfarmhand]

I suppose looking at it from a healthy viewpoint, I can see how the letter would be helpful. I do think what I was overlooking is that this situation is far from healthy!

 

Duh!

 

I stand corrected. That letter might just be more hurtful than helpful, although I do think that there is a time and a place to be direct. I guess you just have the discretion to know where the other party is coming from, how strong they are, etc.

[Murphy101]

Anyway, I keep wondering what the husband's role in all this is. I mean, seriously. A man running a church can't bother to keep an eye on the immediate needs and emotional health of his immediate family?

Idk. I would be asking my friend what her dh has to say or do about things too. That is usually my first question when I get a tearful phone call.

 

And yet.

 

I don't understand how a person can run a church and his household. But I don't think this is restricted to pastors. For most of my marriage my dh wouldn't have been able to do much. Putting food on the table was way more than a 40 hour a week endeavor. The few times I was truely down for the count and not getting up anytime soon (severe pregnancy hypermesis) he had to take several months of unpaid medical leave of absence. He did that ONCE even tho I had hypermesis with 9 of them. I can't count how often I did schooling from the sofa with a red pen and answer keys on one side and a puke can on the other. Could I have taken a 6 month season off every 18-24 months? I guess. But the kids still needed supervision and something to do because bored infants, preschoolers, and elementary kids for months isn't very conductive to helping with hypermesis either. So I figured they could still do most of their workbooks and reading and intersperced with stuff like Liberty Kids and Magic School Bus and Signing Time. And that one time, when I pulled dh down next to me and said, hey can't do even this much and I need help - he took me stone cold serious and rearranged his entire world to do it. I know there are women whose husbands won't. For lots of non-reason reasons that make me want to thump them bc it's just a marriage dynamic I don't comprehend, nor want to.

 

So if they aren't schooling, or maintaining the home, what ARE the kids doing? Are they just bored out of their ever lovin minds at home or what? I would think they would be exhibiting signs of anger or depression or anxiety if that was the case long term?

[Alte Veste Academy]

I would just like to point out that non-Christians have spiritual issues as well. :tongue_smilie:

[Alte Veste Academy]

As to whether or not she fits the definition of hypocrite, that depends on what she is putting out there on Facebook, her blog, her ministry, her church, etc. Personally, I think it is hypocrisy if she has been calling herself a homeschooler all this time. (And this is even though I recognize unschooling as a great option for some.)

[texasmama]

I would just like to point out that non-Christians have spiritual issues as well. :tongue_smilie:

Well, yeah.  You folks are failing Jesus. 

 

(Sigh...now I'll have to explain and defend my oddball sense of humor...can we just go back to cage fighting?  ;) And YES, I do know how to be serious when it is warranted!  It is just almost never warranted so I really had to make an effort for the serious parts of this thread.)

 

P.S.  We are having a snow day here.  I've been stuck inside for a long time.  I will be getting to educating the kids right this second, though, because they just came in from playing in the snow.  3,2,1....Go!  Reading aloud history...

[Murphy101]

I'm not sure she's a hypocrite. I think of hypocrites who espouse a standard for others with no intention of living up to it themselves. I suspect that she wants to live up to the standard that she is espousing, but that she is failing (miserably). For sure that makes her a failure (for the moment, at least) but I think that you can fail to uphold your standard without being a hypocrite.

 

No one needs someone who isn't home schooling them to lecture them on how to do it properly. Same goes for home management. That's pretty much the definition of being hypocritical.

[fairfarmhand]

So if they aren't schooling, or maintaining the home, what ARE the kids doing? Are they just bored out of their ever lovin minds at home or what? I would think they would be exhibiting signs of anger or depression or anxiety if that was the case long term?

 

Dirtying dishes?

 

Honestly, one reason we NEED school in our day is that the structure gives my kids less time to trash the house and bicker! They drive me crazy without school. By the time Christmas break is over, we really need to get back to several hours of schooling per day just to keep them occupied and engaged in something other than "He did x" and "she did y." If they aren't bickering, they are making big messes!

 

Perhaps this lady needs to hear that school will make messes like papers and books, but it might help with the general flow of the day.