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Heart or head. How versatile is that four year college degree?


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Our daughter really wants to go to a 4 yr. college in MN and get a degree in equine management. The major is perfect for her, the college is perfect for her, but we are not sure the jobs for that are as prevalent in our area as much as it would be in the west where there are ranches or in the south where there is horse breeding and racing. We need to do more research about it. Her dream would be to run her own boarding stables and take care of rescue horses. :)

 

After reading a book recently, titled, "You Majored in What?", there were many examples of areas people majored in, but had completely different jobs in. What are your thoughts and experiences when it comes to majoring in what you love, even if it might be tougher to find a job in that field. Do you follow your heart, or major in something you feel might be more secure?

 

Thank you!

 

 

 

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Within very, very broad parameters, I think the answer is follow your heart.

 

I don't believe that college should be considered vocational training. It's about getting an education. As a side benefit, "a college degree" is a requirement for lots of jobs. However, I, too, know plenty of people who are working in jobs that are not directly related to the degrees they earned. That suggests to me that, outside of some specialized fields in which it really does matter, getting a degree in a field you love instead of one you think might be more useful probably won't put much of a crimp in one's potential.

 

The other issue is that I know tons of people who were talked into getting degrees they thought were "practical" that qualified them for relatively narrow careers and left them out in the cold as soon as that particular field changed due to technology or fads.

 

I'd much rather my kids spend four years studying what they love and want to be great at and give that a real shot than force themselves onto a "practical" path only to find they can't make a go of it and gave up something they cared about for nothing.

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I don't want to rain on your dd's dream, but my dd asked her trainer about equine management degree programs, too. (FWIW, he was a professional rider for many years and has trained a number of other professional riders in his very successful boarding stable.) His opinion was that such programs were a waste of time and money. He said the best way to get into equine management is to work in stables to gain experience. He did say it would be a good idea to take some courses on equine health and nutrition, but most of the rest can be learned at the barn. Horses cost a bundle, so it may be better to major in something that will provide a good income to fund her dream. Accounting would come in handy later in running a barn, and business management would, too.

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I'm a follow your heart person, but I'd be practical with it and suggest a double major - business would be good to add to almost anything, and really good if she thinks she wants to run her own place at some point.

 

To work with horses, one certainly does NOT need a degree.  One needs experience.  However, few actually do that for a living forever, so a degree is helpful in the end IMO.  Way too many jobs require "a" degree and don't particularly care what it is in.  With a 4 year Equine degree she could end up even applying to med school or something totally different.  Without a degree, there's no chance for many things.

 

 

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I know nothing about equine management, but you made a reference to regional job availability.

 

How does she feel about relocating to the parts of the country that do have more likely job prospects? How do you feel about it?

 

If moving to get a job were the only major concern, I wouldn't even blink. But we have a very mobile family culture.

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Very hard job and usually doesn't require that degree.

 

I'd second the consideration to get a minor, extra courses, or a second major with more practical application. A LOT of people who have boarding stables have a second job to pay the bills. If she gets something flexible it could be very useful.

 

Edited: Think outside the box for that second job. Anything which can be done as work-from-home would be great. Anything related to animals would also be great. Examples:

 

Farrier (this would save money on her own horses and also allow her to meet other horse people)

Vet Tech (ditto)

Accounting (lots of courses but often can be flexible as long as you're prepared to put in extra hours around tax time. This could be especially interesting if she couples her equine interests and experience to market herself to equine businesses as a tax assistant).

Spanish (a lot of agriculture jobs employ spanish-speaking employees -- if she ends up working on someone else's farm the ability to speak spanish is a plus)

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Some jobs require a specific degree.  Some don't care.  My uncle retired from the federal government as a GS-15.  His degree was in history.  He did computers in a now defunct federal agency (at one point in the early 70s he carried a few meg of of RAM from one building to another in his car and the RAM was worth more than his car).  Some private companies just want to check the "bacherlor's degree" box.  I'd go with her heart.  A double major or a minor isn't a bad idea.

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That 4 year degree just sounds way too limiting. That term "equine" in front of management could put huge limits for the future work field, as well as future academic studies. I would think that doing a staight-forward Business Management degree, but specializing in equine facilities (through work/volunteer/competing/specialized courses) would offer a lot more flexibility in the long run. A depth of knowledge in management would be transferable to many areas, and would probably have more options for graduate studies or compatible undergraduate degree or certificates. 

 

I would look very carefully at all the courses required in this degree. Is it a management degree with some classes specializing in equine topics, or is it something completely different. Look at other management degrees and see what the differences are. Also look at other educational options that would lead her to her ultimate career goal. Also, have her talk to several different stable managers and see what their path has been and their career opportunities are.

 

For myself, I have undergrad degrees in Kinesiology, Education and a Master of Arts in Sports Psychology. The Masters degree is wonderful to have, and though completely different than a graduate degree in psychology, when it's linked with Education and/or health promotion/injury prevention, has opened the doors for lots of career opportunities in coaching, National Sports organization, hospitals, and municipal, provincial and federal government agencies (Health). 

 

On another note, though your dd has the ultimate goal of being a stable manager and/or horse rescue operator, there is a very good chance that her interests will broaden and develop over time. She may get very interested in related areas and appreciate having the flexibility to expand her career options. Also, the physical job of managing stables requires a pretty high level of stength and endurance. Is this type of work going to be something she'll continue to love as she ages, has a family, etc., or will it be nice to have a broader range of working areas to be able to expand into.

 

 

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One other thought regarding the "something to fall back on" argument: My daughter has a degree in theatre with a minor in music. My son is dual majoring in musical theatre and dance (because the musical theatre program doesn't have enough dance for his liking). Both of them are hoping for performance careers in fields that don't require degrees. We have completely supported them getting degrees in those fields anyway, knowing that a degree in the field will qualify each of them for related roles.

 

My daughter is currently paying her bills in part by teaching acting and theatre classes for kids. Having a degree in theatre makes that possible. Each of our kids has expressed a desire to eventually run a small company or arts school, a goal that will be much more feasible because they will have credentials in their field. 

 

We encouraged each of them to consider at least a minor in business, by the way, and my daughter did take a couple of classes. My son is still considering the possibility. 

 

In any case, as far as we're concerned, if our kids choose to pursue degrees in the disciplines they love in the full knowledge that they are going into incredibly competitive fields, we feel confident they will be at least as prepared for lives and careers as young people who get degrees in something practical for which they have little or no affinity. They are both intelligent, capable, talented, coping young adults. I have faith they'll make it work. 

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No advice except to say that my dd#2 wants to do something similar but hopes to write and/or illustrate books as her cash income. We plan to continue to encourage her interest in horses while making sure she is ready for some sort of paying job after college. 

 

I'm all for heart -- as long as you don't end up with a bunch of debt and no way to pay the bills.

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I'd advise my kid to follow their heart, as I did.  You don't want your child to wind up middle-aged and regretting everything they've ever done.  As long as the child goes into the major with their eyes wide open and understands the income potential and job prospects post-graduation, then they should follow their heart if they wish.  A double major that can increase their income potential is ideal, though.

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I'd agree that I don't think that degree is necessarily required to reach her goal.  I live in a "horsey" area, and know some who manage the breeding and training farms, and none of them have a degree in that, not even an ag degree with an equine focus.  They all have worked their way up.  One did a business degree with an ag minor, but that seems to be the exception.

 

I'd recommend calling or emailing possible employers and see what they say too.  I won't start a degree in a more obscure area without that step IMHO.

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I worked my way through college training horses and managing a stable.  I grew up riding horses. 

 

In my experience, when you're being considered for a job running a barn or working with horses, they care what skills you have and what knowledge of horses you have, but they don't care at all how you got it.  If anything, someone with a degree in something as specific as equine studies might have to work a little harder to prove that they really do know what the are doing in a real-life stable, that they have real skills not just "paper" knowledge.  If she wants to work as a stable manager, she should get a job in a stable - any job, to start with.  If she can't get a job, she should volunteer.  Practical hands on work with horses is, in my experience, the only required qualification for working with horses.

 

I agree with the other posters, that a degree in business or accounting, or at least classes in business and accounting, *would* give her an edge in a stable manager job.  So would being trained as a vet tech, or having skills as a farrier.  But being a stable manager does not usually pay all that well (tho many jobs do come with housing supplied, especially if you work at a stud farm or racetrack).  And it is hard, physical work, so you definitely want to think about the long term. 

 

I must admit I know where she's coming from, though.  When I was a kid I dreamed the same dreams.  I practically lived at the barn.   I told my parents that I wanted to run a barn, as my career.  I still remember my dad listening to that, and saying "are you sure you don't want to do something else to make money, and then you can hire someone else to run the barn for you?  When you turn your hobby into a job you risk losing what makes it fun in the first place".  At least for me, that was good advice.  At the age of 45, I am very glad that I work indoors at a comfortable desk, and can go to the barn when I want to, and not when I don't.  :)

 

 

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Follow your heart.

 

If she wants to do equine management though, don't spend money on a degree! Get experience. When she finds out what she could use a degree for, then she can apply. She'll have a much better application at that time, too.

 

Academia, certain professions, require a degree. Other degrees give you an education that can only be had at a college or university.

 

It sounds to me based on what people in this thread are saying, that a degree is neither necessary nor sufficient for equine management jobs, nor is it an end in itself. So that money could go to a different degree, maybe later.

 

"When you turn your hobby into a job you risk losing what makes it fun in the first place."

 

Oh, I love that. Please tell your father thanks on my behalf. We've been trying to emphasize this to the kids: YES you can be an artist when you grow up. NO that is not really a job for the vast majority of people--at best, your job is selling art. Making the art is the least of your troubles!

 

But your father's wisdom will be very helpful in that discussion.

 

I mean they can be artists if they want--I sure as heck am not paying for a degree in it though.

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I agree with everyone who said follow your heart and add a second major or minor.  Very few careers are a straight line from a particular degree, and most degrees are applicable to a wide range of jobs (even equine management).  I'm guessing she'll get a basic business education and some practical skills in addition to the general education requirements?  She could go into equine law, equine veterinary, equine marketing, equine pharmaceutical sales, equine insurance. equipment sales, facilities management, etc.  And all of those things are applicable to other industries with a little tweaking.

 

Honestly? It sounds a lot more practical than most.  

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Does she have any interest in becoming a large-animal vet? My dd14 really wants to run a ranch and has been mentored extensively by two great, successful ranch/stable owners. She's learned everything from dosing medicine to training to running birthday parties. She has decided that IF she decides to go to college she will become a large animal vet. That way she can support herself while she is starting a ranch/boarding business.

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One field to consider where the demand is high is hippotherapy/therapeutic riding. The folks in my area who do hippotherapy typically are trained physical therapists.

 

This is something my dd is expressing interest in - equine-assisted therapy.  Typically the therapy team includes a mental health professional/physical therapist and an equine specialist, which is what she's looking at.  I have no idea how much demand there is for this, or whether a degree is necessary.  Our local JC has an excellent Equine Science program, you can get either an AS or a certificate.  It's a possibility for her for DE during high school, I think a good way to check out the field.

 

What an interesting thread this is!

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This is something my dd is expressing interest in - equine-assisted therapy.  Typically the therapy team includes a mental health professional/physical therapist and an equine specialist, which is what she's looking at.  I have no idea how much demand there is for this, or whether a degree is necessary.  Our local JC has an excellent Equine Science program, you can get either an AS or a certificate.  It's a possibility for her for DE during high school, I think a good way to check out the field.

 

What an interesting thread this is!

 

I'd love to know what jr. colleges have equine programs!  A couple weeks ago my dd13 wanted to be a vet (after she watched the entire Dr. Pol series), but now she wants to forget school and be a housewife (sigh)...or maybe a vet tech.  We know she will work with animals in some way, and if we could entice her to college with a 2yr. degree, that sounds like the way to go for us!   Our local cc does not offer such a program, though.  My husband was just telling me today how he really wanted to find a way to get her to reconsider college (he'd like to encourage the business degree...but I think that'd be a really tough sell!)  I know she's only 13...just wanting to show her ways to expand her options.

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This is something my dd is expressing interest in - equine-assisted therapy. Typically the therapy team includes a mental health professional/physical therapist and an equine specialist, which is what she's looking at. I have no idea how much demand there is for this, or whether a degree is necessary. Our local JC has an excellent Equine Science program, you can get either an AS or a certificate. It's a possibility for her for DE during high school, I think a good way to check out the field.

 

What an interesting thread this is!

Two of my kids did equine therapy for a few months, we all loved it but it was too expensive to continue with.

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I guess I'm the lone voice on here.

 

I wouldn't encourage that.  Too limiting and not marketable enough.  Besides a lot of times when you're working full time at a "hobby" it isn't fun anymore.  Kind of like the guy that loved doing home brewed beer so he quit his job and opened a brewery and then it wasn't fun anymore.  It was just another job.  

 

College is a lot of money to spend on something that isn't going to be helpful in getting a job.  There have been lots of threads on here about kids getting out of school with degrees that are fun or cool but are laughed at by employers.  It isn't like 10 or 20 years ago when you got a degree and that piece of paper was good enough for a job.  It's competitive and I think we'd being doing our children a disservice to not help them make decisions that will help them be in a position long term to be competitive in the job market.  

 

As a disclaimer ... I think one of the biggest lies told my generation was to major in something that interests you because you'll have to do it your whole life.  Wrong.  I adore history and think it's fascinating.  My ENGINEERING degree is paying for me to travel the world visiting places of historical significance.  If I was teaching high school history to a bunch of kids who didn't care I probably wouldn't still love history and I wouldn't be able to afford to travel like I can now.    

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I see up thread people have mentioned that if working with horses is your passion that you'd be better off getting experience rather than getting a degree.  This is advice that I think is fantastic.  College is expensive and if you are majoring in something unnecessary for your preferred career choice then it's also costing you in other ways.  

 

College route -

 

-$40k in tuition/room/board

-$100k in lost wages (4 years of not working while in college at $25k a year)

 

At 22 you would have a degree but it would have cost you $140k and you'd have less experience than ...

 

Non-College route -

 

$100k in income over 4 years

4 years of experience in your field

 

There are more factors that go into the decision than that but college is not the end all answer for all career choices.  

 

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I guess I'm the lone voice on here.

 

I wouldn't encourage that. Too limiting and not marketable enough. Besides a lot of times when you're working full time at a "hobby" it isn't fun anymore. Kind of like the guy that loved doing home brewed beer so he quit his job and opened a brewery and then it wasn't fun anymore. It was just another job.

 

College is a lot of money to spend on something that isn't going to be helpful in getting a job. There have been lots of threads on here about kids getting out of school with degrees that are fun or cool but are laughed at by employers. It isn't like 10 or 20 years ago when you got a degree and that piece of paper was good enough for a job. It's competitive and I think we'd being doing our children a disservice to not help them make decisions that will help them be in a position long term to be competitive in the job market.

 

As a disclaimer ... I think one of the biggest lies told my generation was to major in something that interests you because you'll have to do it your whole life. Wrong. I adore history and think it's fascinating. My ENGINEERING degree is paying for me to travel the world visiting places of historical significance. If I was teaching high school history to a bunch of kids who didn't care I probably wouldn't still love history and I wouldn't be able to afford to travel like I can now.

I'm with you. I majored in art history as an undergrad and really regret it. It's just not marketable. I would have enjoyed other subjects too, but I had bought into the idea that I was learning for the sake of learning and as long as I followed my heart, whatever I did would somehow end up in a career. At 18, I hadn't thought about how what I was studying might translate into an actual job four years later or that it was statistically unlikely that I would end up being an art conservator or professor of art history. College is too expensive to simply pursue hobbies. If theater or art or dance or horses are what drives you, do it... But don't spend money on a degree in it. Spend money on degrees that have a good chance of bringing in income.

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I'm with you. I majored in art history as an undergrad and really regret it. It's just not marketable. I would have enjoyed other subjects too, but I had bought into the idea that I was learning for the sake of learning and as long as I followed my heart, whatever I did would somehow end up in a career. At 18, I hadn't thought about how what I was studying might translate into an actual job four years later or that it was statistically unlikely that I would end up being an art conservator or professor of art history. College is too expensive to simply pursue hobbies. If theater or art or dance or horses are what drives you, do it... But don't spend money on a degree in it. Spend money on degrees that have a good chance of bringing in income.

 

I agree ... BUT if there's a way to double major or to mix something you love with something that brings in income, totally do it. You can also minor in your area of special interest, which frequently allows you to take all the fun courses. For example, majoring in business and doing some sort of equine science minor (I bet they have a minor) would almost certainly let you get in most of the interesting equine courses. 

 

Examples of double majors that people I know have done:

 

music/accounting double major

math/music/theatre triple major

math/art double major

 

And squishing a minor in usually is nowhere near as difficult. 

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I see up thread people have mentioned that if working with horses is your passion that you'd be better off getting experience rather than getting a degree.  This is advice that I think is fantastic.  College is expensive and if you are majoring in something unnecessary for your preferred career choice then it's also costing you in other ways.  

 

College route -

 

-$40k in tuition/room/board

-$100k in lost wages (4 years of not working while in college at $25k a year)

 

At 22 you would have a degree but it would have cost you $140k and you'd have less experience than ...

 

Non-College route -

 

$100k in income over 4 years

4 years of experience in your field

 

There are more factors that go into the decision than that but college is not the end all answer for all career choices.  

 

I didn't think this thread was originally about college vs no college. I thought it was more about choosing wisely what college degree to pursue.

 

But on the topic you present here, I've seen these kind of figures before and I've found them flawed in several ways. This formula doesn't take into account the potential for increase in revenue for many, many more years after the higher education is complete and a full-time career is started. It also doesn't take into account the fact that many people are working while they study, and they may be living a lot more cheaply than indicated in this 140k formula. And most important of all, not having a college degree really limits what types of careers, the standard of living, and the job/life satisfaction that people can realistically attain in this society.

 

In my opinion, it always opens up more doors to get higher education than just working in a minum job situation (or even self-employed). It opens up more varied and higher paying career opportunities, it broadens the mind and challenges people to think new ways, it broadens the number of people you meet who are also moving toward improving their situation so that your social circle is different.

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There are a fair number of community colleges that have programs in stable management. That would be a less expensive way to go. I know the 1st year my oldest worked with horses she was appalled at how *dirty* they could get themselves and their surroundings, but it didn't put her off. She's now a 4-H project leader with those horses, but it's not her stable or her paying the bills, either. She has a friend who instead of college began working at a stable in high school and is now assistant manager there...in a pretty non-agricultural area where you wouldn't expect a stable to flourish.

 

There are *tons* of non-stable jobs in the horse industry. Maybe with a foundation in stable management and preparation for something else as well? Farrier would get her working right away. Business degree...like calandalsmom, we know someone who sells insurance to horse owners and rides on weekends. There's horse photographers...they get paid well for those pricey spreads in the breed magazines. Tack makers and tack stores and breed organizations and more.

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I didn't think this thread was originally about college vs no college. I thought it was more about choosing wisely what college degree to pursue.

 

But on the topic you present here, I've seen these kind of figures before and I've found them flawed in several ways. This formula doesn't take into account the potential for increase in revenue for many, many more years after the higher education is complete and a full-time career is started. It also doesn't take into account the fact that many people are working while they study, and they may be living a lot more cheaply than indicated in this 140k formula. And most important of all, not having a college degree really limits what types of careers, the standard of living, and the job/life satisfaction that people can realistically attain in this society.

 

In my opinion, it always opens up more doors to get higher education than just working in a minum job situation (or even self-employed). It opens up more varied and higher paying career opportunities, it broadens the mind and challenges people to think new ways, it broadens the number of people you meet who are also moving toward improving their situation so that your social circle is different.

 

I mostly agree with that but I think it depends on what you major in.  There's lots of degrees that aren't going to open up any opportunities.  My numbers were based on someone pursuing a degree that wasn't very marketable.

 

Let's run the numbers on two different girls with different career choices.

 

Girl A is majoring in family therapy.  (I think the degree was actually psychology.  This is a true story btw of a friend of mine.)

 

State College undergrad degree - $35k

State College masters degree (because you have to have one to even get an interview) - $15k

Six years of lost income (let's assume she could have worked at Aldi's because I've heard good things about them and they hire right out of high school @ $13 hour) - $156k over six years

 

Her college degree cost her $206k.  

 

Remember this is a true story.  The only job she could get with stellar grades out of school was paying $14/hour and she had to commute an hour for it.  Her manager with fifteen years of experience was making $19/hour.  

 

 

Girl B wants to be a nurse.  

 

State College -$35k

Four years lost income (assume Aldi's again) - $104k

 

Her college degree cost her $139k.

 

Also a true story.  Her starting salary is $24/hour.  Her expected salary in 15 years could be between $35-$40/hour.

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Also a true story.  Her starting salary is $24/hour.  Her expected salary in 15 years could be between $35-$40/hour.

 

I could be more, and that is with your basic RN out of a vocational/CC school working in a higher skill unit such as a ICU/CCU.

 

Stefanie 

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I could be more, and that is with your basic RN out of a vocational/CC school working in a higher skill unit such as a ICU/CCU.

 

Stefanie 

 

My BFF is a midwife (4 year nursing degree paid by her + 2 year masters degree paid by hospital where she works).  She works 3x12 hour shifts in a week and makes over $90k.  That was a smart career choice.   

 

I don't want to seem like a jerk telling someone not to follow their dream but I'd hate to see a kid go $40k into debt on a job where she MIGHT make $15/hour.  

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My BFF is a midwife (4 year nursing degree paid by her + 2 year masters degree paid by hospital where she works).  She works 3x12 hour shifts in a week and makes over $90k.  That was a smart career choice.   

 

I don't want to seem like a jerk telling someone not to follow their dream but I'd hate to see a kid go $40k into debt on a job where she MIGHT make $15/hour.  

 

As someone with an animal science degree and equine specialization, don't get a equine related degree to run a barn or train horses.  In fact, in my first equine class the instructor told the whole class that.....practical experience is worth more in those fields.   The university equine program was designed more for those wanting to head off to vet school, go to graduate school for equine related research, or nutritionist type fields.  If you want to run a barn, go get an agribusiness degree and take equine classes as your electives and look for local USDA sponsored seminars to learn more about specific topics. 

 

Stefanie

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Agreeing with everyone else that experience is what counts in the horse world. Nobody cares if you have a degree in equine anything. They care about 1. What you know, 2. Who you've trained with/what experience you have, and 3. How hard you work. If she's really interested in running a barn, I'd recommend spending a year as a working student (she could also work as a groom for pay, depending on experience, but that generally involves little riding). That would help a whole lot with experience, and also give her a view of what life working at a barn is really like. With decent references, it's also possible she could land a working student type position while in college ... some barns will be flexible and will work around class schedules. I would say going with that and considering it a "double major" along with getting a degree in business or accounting or something would be a good option. The degree is a backup; practical experience is what really counts.

 

Also consider that running a boarding barn is not profitable. For all but the biggest farms, barn owners will have another job. For many, that other job is offering riding lessons, training horses, and selling horses, but others have a more traditional job.

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Also consider that running a boarding barn is not profitable. For all but the biggest farms, barn owners will have another job. For many, that other job is offering riding lessons, training horses, and selling horses, but others have a more traditional job.

 

Yes. Exactly. I think was alluding to this earlier but perhaps not so explicitly.

 

One of my friends majored in animal science and while he learned a lot, he really wishes he'd done an animal science minor and a major in something where he could get a local job. There are plenty of jobs if you're willing to live on someone else's farm, but he'd have to sell the family farm.

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Some links that might be helpful: Facebook pages with advertisements for horse jobs and working student positions (1, 2) and a thread on one of those pages discussing college or not for horse jobs. Chronicle of the Horse also has many, many threads about working in the horse industry and being a working student. Oh, and Yard and Groom is great for getting an idea of what horse jobs require (and what they pay). I very rarely see anything that requires a degree, but many jobs require extensive and specific experience (e.g. for working students 2nd level experience for dressage, training level experience for eventing, 1.1m experience for jumpers, etc. Basic horse care skills such as grooming, tacking up, turning out, mucking stalls, basic first aid and so on are pretty much universal requirements). Keep in mind that those are expected for working students; barn managers or assistant trainers will be expected to have more skills/experience.

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You can choose a fluffier degree as long as you bolster it with continuing education.

 

One of my siblings graduated with a Marketing/Business Administration degree. Once he graduated that was it. 

 

My other sibling graduated with an Art History degree and is one of those people who loves learning new things.  She considerably outearns him and loves her job (which is not arts-related at all).

 

 

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