AmyontheFarm Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Please pray. No one is in danger. She just can't take him being gone so often and he brings home his work all the time. She feels neglected and alone. I've prayed with her multiple times and things aren't getting better. I know the guys have been telling him to pay attention to his wife or he'll lose her (this has been coming from guys who have lost their wives because they did work to hard). I don't know what to do. How do I help her. I know they love each other, you can see it in their eyes when they speak about the other spouse. This is so hard. What advice can you give me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Has she been communicating with him, or has it just been you talking to her and the guys talking to him? What steps have they gone through together until now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 You say you've prayed with her? Is she a Christian? Um, Christians are not to walk out of marriages because their spouse works too much. [ETA: not to imply someone struggling in a marriage and contemplating divorce cannot be a Christian; obviously that is not true.] Does she have a church? Can you suggest to her and have your husband suggest to her husband that they book an appointment with their pastor to discuss this? If I've jumped to the wrong conclusion based on your mention of praying, I'm sorry and you can ignore me. What a tough place you are in. ETA: Please don't interpret this as me saying she is completely at fault. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church, and if she is feeling neglected that is not happening. But she is the one leaving the marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 What advice can you give me? It sounds like they DO want to be with each other, and they need help but don't really know how to ask for it. I would encourage them to get support. It can make a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 It can't always be helped. Not every woman can handle doing everything on her own, but still having a husband to deal with. If you live a high stress life, then marriage is something that requires quite a bit of work on the part of both parties. My dh works a lot/is gone a lot, but he works very hard to be appreciative and do things for me, especially when he is home. We have regular date day/nights (things I think are fun, not just going to the movies or whatever). When he is gone, he sends me cards, letters, emails, Pinterest pins, texts, he calls on the phone and/or FaceTime most days. It is very important to us to maintain that connection. But, both parties have to be willing to make the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 What advice can you give me? All you can do is pray and listen to her. There is nothing YOU can do to save their marriage, that is their part. It can't always be helped. Not every woman can handle doing everything on her own, but still having a husband to deal with. If you live a high stress life, then marriage is something that requires quite a bit of work on the part of both parties. My dh works a lot/is gone a lot, but he works very hard to be appreciative and do things for me, especially when he is home. We have regular date day/nights (things I think are fun, not just going to the movies or whatever). When he is gone, he sends me cards, letters, emails, Pinterest pins, texts, he calls on the phone and/or FaceTime most days. It is very important to us to maintain that connection. But, both parties have to be willing to make the effort. :iagree: especially to the bolded. And in many cases it's not simply the working long hours, it's that they are "absent" when they're home or not recognizing that their absence can be an issue. marriage is a partnership between two people, not one gets a life and one doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommyof4ks Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Is she open to counseling either by a member of the church (most pastors offer help in these circumstances) or through a regular Christian therapist? Is he willing to go? Have they gone away for a couple of days together to reconnect? Dh and i do that annually, because life is stessful on a marriage (we have never been near divorce however times have been hard some years). Suggesting those things is really all you can do other than praying and listening to her which you are already doing. They both have to be on board to fix this or it will not work, so just keep being a friend. It is hard to stand by and watch. I have watched a few marriage end over the years, and it is always sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I knew a couple years ago who were in a similar situation. In their case, talking with an honest attorney about the practical and financial implications of divorce was enough of a reality check to convince the spouse who wanted to end the relationship to try marriage counseling instead (the attorney actually recommended this course). Obviously this is only an anecdotal account of one couple's experience, but more than a decade later they are happily married. As for what you can do, I really don't know. When my friend went through this all I did was listen, and babysit so she and her husband could go to counseling together. I had only been married for a year or two at the time and certainly had no wisdom to offer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Has she been communicating with him, or has it just been you talking to her and the guys talking to him? What steps have they gone through together until now? She says she has been telling him that she needs him around more. I know the dept. needs to hire 4 guys and he is covering his position and 2 others. It's not fair, and frankly not humanly possible for him to keep doing this for much longer. I've told her it's a season. Just breathe, it will get better. She went away with a girlfriend and I'm afraid the trip did nothing but help brew bad feelings stronger. We grew up together, we attended the same church. She is no longer practicing her faith, hasn't been for 10+ years. But is open to me praying for her and is willing to ask for me to pray for her. It sounds like they DO want to be with each other, and they need help but don't really know how to ask for it. I would encourage them to get support. It can make a huge difference. I feel like going over there and sitting them down and talking to them both, really loud! But I know that won't work. He sees the job needs to get done, so he is doing it. Frankly, our township needs to pay him crazy money just for loyalty. But job loyatly has its faults too. It can't always be helped. Not every woman can handle doing everything on her own, but still having a husband to deal with. If you live a high stress life, then marriage is something that requires quite a bit of work on the part of both parties. My dh works a lot/is gone a lot, but he works very hard to be appreciative and do things for me, especially when he is home. We have regular date day/nights (things I think are fun, not just going to the movies or whatever). When he is gone, he sends me cards, letters, emails, Pinterest pins, texts, he calls on the phone and/or FaceTime most days. It is very important to us to maintain that connection. But, both parties have to be willing to make the effort. Part of me thinks he just doesn't get it. I think he believes that she's just yapping because he wouldn't go on vacation with them (he had to work). I honestly think he would be shocked to come home and find she packed up and left. All you can do is pray and listen to her. There is nothing YOU can do to save their marriage, that is their part. :iagree: especially to the bolded. And in many cases it's not simply the working long hours, it's that they are "absent" when they're home or not recognizing that their absence can be an issue. marriage is a partnership between two people, not one gets a life and one doesn't. They both work Full time, just his full time is 90% of his day right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I've said this before, but there was a point in our marriage (we've been married for over 20 years, and that is a seriously long time for a military marriage, lol) when we were really living separate lives. I sat my dh down and asked him to go to counseling with me. He said he didn't think we needed it because our marriage was okay. I said, "I don't want okay. I have given up a lot for this lifestyle. I'm not willing to do it for okay. It has to be amazing or it's not worth it anymore." It really woke him up. We didn't do counseling, but we made major changes that made a huge difference in both of our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia64 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I would strongly encourage her to get counseling for both. If he won't go then she should go on her own. I can't imagine leaving my marriage without talking to a counselor. There are Christian counselors. Alley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyontheFarm Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Mrs. Mungo, I get what you are saying. We are 22 years married and 20 years on the fire dept. It's not easy, but I walked into marriage believeing that it wouldn't be easy. I knew I would have to work at it just because I can be a frustrating person! LOL My husband didn't get how lonely and scared at times I was until I brought a twin sized mattress into our bedroom and told him to pick which one he wanted to sleep on because I wasn't sharing the same bed with him. It shook him up. I had been talking to him for years, crying to him, pleading to him and it took a visual for him to just get it. Now, he texts me when he gets out of a structure fire to tell me he is ok. He calls if he won't be home for supper. We make a point of going out to coffee or play cards with friends, just adults at least once but usually twice a week. We talk. When he gets huffy with me, I call him on it and ask what is going on. We agreed that sometimes it is easiest to hurt those we love instead of placing the blame for the hurt where it belongs. Did that make sense? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't get the logic of "my husband works too much so I want to kick him completely out of my life". Usually there is more going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 She went away with a girlfriend and I'm afraid the trip did nothing but help brew bad feelings stronger. Sounds like she needs a new friend. :glare: OK, this is going to sound terrible, but I have to ask anyway. Is the "friend" divorced? I'm only asking because I have known more than one recently divorced woman who thought it was her civic duty to try to talk all of their married friends into leaving their husbands. Look, I'm not saying the other woman didn't mean well -- and for all I know, she's right and divorce is the answer for your friend, but it does sound like whatever she said had a pretty big influence on your friend. I think you may want to talk to your friend about what happened on that trip. Did the other woman tell her how great it is to be single? Did she go out with the friend and end up flirting with a bunch of men and enjoy that attention? I can understand her frustration with her dh, and I don't think she should just sit back and tolerate a bad marriage, but it doesn't sound like there has been enough communication between the two of them. Clearly, he doesn't realize that she is serious. Maybe she has already threatened to leave him a dozen times in the past but never followed through, so he figures this is just another of her tantrums. Or maybe he's so tired from working so much that he isn't even really aware of how bad things are for her. Whatever the case, if they both still love each other, your friend is making a huge mistake by not insisting on some big changes, but if he's not willing to compromise and listen to her needs, it doesn't matter whether or not they love each other, because the marriage isn't going to work if she is the only one who has to suck it up and deal with the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't get the logic of "my husband works too much so I want to kick him completely out of my life". Usually there is more going on. Yeah, like loneliness, pain and betrayal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Mrs. Mungo, I get what you are saying. We are 22 years married and 20 years on the fire dept. It's not easy, but I walked into marriage believeing that it wouldn't be easy. I knew I would have to work at it just because I can be a frustrating person! LOL My husband didn't get how lonely and scared at times I was until I brought a twin sized mattress into our bedroom and told him to pick which one he wanted to sleep on because I wasn't sharing the same bed with him. It shook him up. I had been talking to him for years, crying to him, pleading to him and it took a visual for him to just get it. Now, he texts me when he gets out of a structure fire to tell me he is ok. He calls if he won't be home for supper. We make a point of going out to coffee or play cards with friends, just adults at least once but usually twice a week. We talk. When he gets huffy with me, I call him on it and ask what is going on. We agreed that sometimes it is easiest to hurt those we love instead of placing the blame for the hurt where it belongs. Did that make sense? LOL It makes perfect sense. She has to figure out something that will get through to him. I don't get the logic of "my husband works too much so I want to kick him completely out of my life". Usually there is more going on. Like anything else, I don't think you can probably understand this, unless you've been through it. It's not just "working too much." It's working too much *and* using work as an excuse to disengage with your home life. That's what happens. You start leading separate lives, and it feels like a lot of effort you're putting in for only a little compensation. I know wives who have left their husbands *and children* because they became so overwhelmed and didn't have the support or appreciation that they needed to get through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't get the logic of "my husband works too much so I want to kick him completely out of my life". Usually there is more going on. :iagree: There is always more to the story. The problem is that if the couple is talking to other people instead of to each other, the real truth is going to get blown more and more out of proportion, depending on the perspectives of the confidants. Even friends and family can have agendas, so who knows what advice this woman is getting from different people? Instead of asking others for help, she should be trying to find a way to communicate with her own dh. Amy, has your friend told you what actions she has taken to try to get her dh to see her side of things? Does he listen to her or does he just brush her off? When he is at home, does he pay attention to the family or just go off on his own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripley Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Am I understanding this correctly: So he's gone a lot, partially due to the nature of the job but also because he's covering extra shifts due to understaffing? And the understaffing issue is going to get worse before it gets better, due to the chief retiring in December? She married into a job that's challenging on its best days, and must feel incredibly impossible in these worst of times. I don't know that she can see this as a season because there isn't any promise of an end in sight! :grouphug: I understand the feelings of neglect and abandonment. As a (former) military (former) wife, it sums up my post-9/11 marriage. Unfortunately my husband's job didn't avail him to regular contact with us at home, so when he was gone ... he was GONE. And my husband didn't even really have a choice, so I can't imagine how your friend must hurt to feel her husband is CHOOSING to prioritize his work life over his home life. She believes her marriage is dead, but has she looked into an actual divorce? It's a small glimmer of hope, but if his work buddies can continue to work on him and she can get some time away without making anything permanent, maybe she'll come to see that her marriage is/was merely dormant. Dormancy isn't dead, it just looks like it during the thick of it. You say she works full time, does she have family nearby she can stay with for a few months? Maybe to jolt him into seeing the real condition of his marriage, not his delusional view of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'd recommend that she try doing The Love Dare. http://thelovedarebook.com http://www.shenzhoufellowship.org/main2/files/old/SpecialTopics/TheLoveDare.pdf It would hopefully help her refocus on the love that they have for each other, and not the negative feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 The OP won't know enough details to answer these questions. Nobody knows what is going on in other people's marriages enough to speculate. No offence to the OP, who I'm sure is just wanting to do the right thing, but this is why I don't like these threads. It's just a whole lot of guessing and projecting, when really, all the OP can do is suggest counselling, offer to babysit if that's required, and be a good and caring listener. I mean, no other 'details' are going to help her be a better friend than that. That's very true. Ultimately, it's up to the woman to work things out with her dh one way or the other. She should probably spend less time talking with Amy and her other friend, and more time trying to communicate with her dh. And let's face it, if she's talking to Amy and another woman, she's probably also complaining to her family, the women at work, the server at the diner, her hair stylist... :rolleyes: It's time to stop whining to the world and start doing something constructive. Can you tell that I'm not a big believer in discussing my marriage with a lot of other people? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'd recommend that she try doing The Love Dare. http://thelovedarebook.com http://www.shenzhoufellowship.org/main2/files/old/SpecialTopics/TheLoveDare.pdf It would hopefully help her refocus on the love that they have for each other, and not the negative feelings. Isn't that the sort of thing they would need to do as a couple? Why would she want to do it on her own? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 My brother used work to be a self centered person who abandoned his family in every way except having an affair. My ex sil became so lonely despite technically having a husband that she became clinically depressed. He worked 80 hrs. a week, belonged to a golf league, basketball league, video gaming guru, you name it. His philosophy was that since he worked so hard, he should not have to make an effort as a father or husband and he sure as heck expected her to raise three kids alone, do EVERYTHING for the house, yard, and vehicles, make sure his boys played multiple sports while he assisted in no way and never even made a game, and expected her to work 20 hrs. a week in order to maintain his hobbies. She did everything she could to communicate her deepening depression to him and present how abandoned the children felt. It went in one ear and out the other because he did not want to hear that he was failing as a husband and father. He came home one day to find his clothing and golf clubs on the front steps and the locks changed. There was no salvaging it. She didn't have any more left to give and no emotional or spiritual connection with him. Zero. She felt nothing but indifference to him. It was pretty devestating to him. Dumb idiot just didn't listen and was totally career and self oriented until it was too late. He's a really sweet guy now, but that's after losing his family and having time to reflect on that. So I have seen it and understand it. OP do not get in the middle of this. Just be a loving person to your friend. You can't save this. You sure could easily end up hurting your friend more if you try to insert yourself into the mess. She may not have anything left to give a one way "relationship", and he may truly not care enough to be willing to change. So whatever comes, just try to be a shoulder to cry on and maybe offer to do something practical like have the kids over for a sleepover so she can have some downtime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 You say you've prayed with her? Is she a Christian? Um, Christians are not to walk out of marriages because their spouse works too much. Does she have a church? Can you suggest to her and have your husband suggest to her husband that they book an appointment with their pastor to discuss this? If I've jumped to the wrong conclusion based on your mention of praying, I'm sorry and you can ignore me. What a tough place you are in. ETA: Please don't interpret this as me saying she is completely at fault. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church, and if she is feeling neglected that is not happening. But she is the one leaving the marriage. Please. I beg you; don't ever, ever, ever say this in person to a Christian woman who has lived in a marriage in which leaving becomes an option. The "Christians are not to walk out of marriages because their spouse works too much" is very shaming, and not at all helpful. I guarantee you active Christians are well aware of how many Christians view marriage and what they think the Bible says about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 So I have seen it and understand it. OP do not get in the middle of this. Just be a loving person to your friend. You can't save this. You sure could easily end up hurting your friend more if you try to insert yourself into the mess. She may not have anything left to give a one way "relationship", and he may truly not care enough to be willing to change. So whatever comes, just try to be a shoulder to cry on and maybe offer to do something practical like have the kids over for a sleepover so she can have some downtime. I didn't want to "like" this post, but I do agree. I've seen a lot of guys all but abandon their families. It is extremely rough on them. It definitely is NOT just working too much. It's sad, but definitely not the case of the spouse on the other end leaving just because or being whiny. ETA: It's important to remember too that everyone's situation is different from your own. Some people have lots of friends and family support, other people don't. Some live close to good friends and family, other people don't. Some people have significant medical issues or have kids with significant medical issues. These will all be factors in the burden placed on the main caregiver for the kids. If the other parent isn't stepping up, then it can get overwhelming and out of control. I sadly know more than one spouse who has committed suicide or has hurt the kids. Don't lead someone into a truly desperate action by insisting they stay in an extremely unhappy situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 And let me just say this about employers who need to hire, never do, and take advantage. Financially, it is to their benefit to NOT hire if they can shove two or three jobs on one person. They will never hire unless this guy putsnhis foot down. Why bother? The work gets done anyway and they pay out a lot less in salary. He either does not put his foot down because he is afraid to talk to the powers that be or he prefers to be there instead of spending time with his family. If the latter is the case, it does not bode well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 OP, there are so many possibilities, and you may not even be aware of them. Even the wife you posted about may not be. There could very well be "more" - addiction, neglect, control/abuse, affair. But even without "more", one thing you CAN do is not evaluate for her what is a "leavable" situation. Be with her in her pain, knowing that the pain isn't new, it's just taken a new form. She may have even used the "D" word to get him to realize how bad/serious it is (which usually has a poor outcome, and is not a good way to effect change, but it is nonetheless often understandable.) Just be her friend, her ear. And if you can't do so with a level of unconditionality, (such as judgment about her time away with another friend), please be super careful about what you DO say. I guess I'd ask you what is your goal: to be a friend or to be an advocate for the marriage? Because if it's the former, my suggestion would be to suggest professionals and back away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Isn't that the sort of thing they would need to do as a couple? Why would she want to do it on her own? No, it's individual. It was used in the movie FireProof. She wanted out. There were some problems in their marriage and I think she was developing feelings for someone else. He started the love dare, after his father recommended it to him. It turned their marriage around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Seriously ? Because a wife who is serious enough about her relationship not working just needs to try a little harder ? Why not just tell the OP to suggest rose coloured glasses. Most people are not considering divorce on a whim. I'm guessing you've not heard of the Love Dare, nor the movie Fire Proof. I personally would not be advising any of my friends on their marriage situations, and I can't tell from the OP if the friend is done and wants out or if she is willing to hang on and fight for her marriage. I recommended this because it's a fairly easy recommendation. It doesn't involve outside people, ie counselor, pastor, ect, so if one party is not willing, The Love Dare still can be used. It's cheap. I've seen many say on here that they can't afford counseling. It's 40 Days of working on your marriage. Some are fairly easy, but others will be harder, if one really wants out of the marriage. Sometimes, all it takes to turn a marriage around is refocusing on the good things and not focusing on the bad. Anyway, it was just a suggestion that the OP could recommend to her friend to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 You say you've prayed with her? Is she a Christian? Um, Christians are not to walk out of marriages because their spouse works too much. /snip Sounds like he already has left the marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2samlibby Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I've heard of both. If you're at the point of divorce, it takes a lot more than focusing on the good things to turn things around. But I did bite your head off for no good reason. Sorry for that. I disagree with that. I've been at the point of divorce. I was lucky that was husband was willing to fight for me and that his job covered counseling. I'm thankful we both fought for marriage and our family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I'm not sure watching Fireproof would be helpful. I may be wrong because I have only seen a clip from the movie and not the whole thing, but I wonder if the wife would feel even more depressed about her situation seeing the husband in the movie turn himself around and choose to invest in his wife and their relationship while watching her own husband continue to ignore her--especially because of the parallel of both husbands being firefighters. Now if the husband would watch the movie and take it to heart some good might come of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I disagree with that. I've been at the point of divorce. I was lucky that was husband was willing to fight for me and that his job covered counseling. I'm thankful we both fought for marriage and our family. I've been at the point of divorce before my actual separation. We agreed that we were both giving our all and it wasn't meeting in the middle. I was prepared to have that for a season. Instead of working FOR our marriage and trying to find the middle, he turned and fell off the edge in the opposite direction still believing that we should stay in our marriage despite the fact his words and actions NEVER lined up. Counseling works for some, not for others. it would take a ten page document or maybe a novel to add up all the little things that contributed to the demise of my marriage. Marriage is not a magic formula or a dare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 You say you've prayed with her? Is she a Christian? Um, Christians are not to walk out of marriages because their spouse works too much. Does she have a church? Can you suggest to her and have your husband suggest to her husband that they book an appointment with their pastor to discuss this? If I've jumped to the wrong conclusion based on your mention of praying, I'm sorry and you can ignore me. What a tough place you are in. ETA: Please don't interpret this as me saying she is completely at fault. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church, and if she is feeling neglected that is not happening. But she is the one leaving the marriage. I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but I agree. Christians are only given a few outs in marriage and "he's paying too much attention to his job" simply isn't one of them. She has every right to feel angry, disappointed, hurt, lonely, etc. And because of this, she has the right to demand they go to counseling. But I've been there. It's a tough line to walk between supporting the friend (or family member) and making it clear that you're not supporting the divorce. :( Good luck on this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty ethel rackham Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 No, it's individual. It was used in the movie FireProof. She wanted out. There were some problems in their marriage and I think she was developing feelings for someone else. He started the love dare, after his father recommended it to him. It turned their marriage around. But in your example, the man who wanted her to stay did the love dare ... not the unhappy woman in the marriage. I don't see how telling her to do this is helpful. It will not change him if he is not there to communicate with. She is not going to feel less abandoned, less unwanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithManor Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I also urge caution with Fireproof the movie. Her husband is the one that needs to see it, and this could cause her a lot more misery. She may be clinically depressed now and this could make it worse. I will also say thatnwhile the premise is endearing, devestated marriages are not so easily cleaned up. 40 days, much as we'd like to hope, does not erase the dysfunction of years of heartache. It's a feel good movie in the way that romantic "we almost didn't make it but look at us now we can hardly take our eyes off each other" flicks are but it just isn't representative of the many months if not years of work a couple will go through to get to a good place and it assumes that both individuals are willing to do that work. She may be at a breaking point and I would not advise pushing her to the precipice by oversimplifying her pain or mshowing her a vow renewal scene that could be really upsetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I also urge caution with Fireproof the movie. Her husband is the one that needs to see it, and this could cause her a lot more misery. She may be clinically depressed now and this could make it worse. I will also say thatnwhile the premise is endearing, devestated marriages are not so easily cleaned up. 40 days, much as we'd like to hope, does not erase the dysfunction of years of heartache. It's a feel good movie in the way that romantic "we almost didn't make it but look at us now we can hardly take our eyes off each other" flicks are but it just isn't representative of the many months if not years of work a couple will go through to get to a good place and it assumes that both individuals are willing to do that work. She may be at a breaking point and I would not advise pushing her to the precipice by oversimplifying her pain or mshowing her a vow renewal scene that could be really upsetting. In the movie, the male character exhibits at least one episode of abuse, and is a porn addict. No *actual* treatment or clinically proven transformation is applied. The movie, aside from the bad acting, trivializes the desperation of bad marriages and perpetuates the myth that "it takes 2 people" to ruin a marriage (it does NOT. I CAN, but one can ruin a marriage.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 She works FT, has a disabled child, and her husband is working crazy hours? Sounds like a recipe for burnout and resentment. Can she get respite hours from the state? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMom Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Sorry, but welcome to the fire service. The hours never get better, the job is high stress, the 24 shifts are horrible, and being married into it is even worse. My husband and I work opposite shifts. Right now, I've only seen him in passing at shift change for the last week and a half. He routinely worked 96 hour weeks for the first five years of our marriage. He will work that again once his injury heals. It's the nature of the job, and it makes the spouse feel lonely, exhausted, and like a single mom with two incomes. Firefighters are firefighters, night and day, at home and at work. There is mandatory overtime and recalls on a regular basis. I can't look up the authors right now because I am on my phone at work, but I highly recommend the books, "I Love A Firefighter: What The Family Needs To Know" by Ellen Kirschbaum and "The Fireman's Wife" by Susan Farren. I will be honest. I grew up in a firefighting family and knew what I was getting into when I married my husband. It doesn't mean that I haven't spent a lot of time wondering if my marriage was going to make it due to his workaholism, like every other firefighter I know. (We will, but I know many many divorced firemen who chose the job over the marriage and never realized it till too late) ETA: I don't mean to sound harsh. I also have a SN child and work 57-70 hours a week, on days opposite than my husband. It always feels like he is never home and I have to deal with everything all by myself. It sucks. But I also understand that with short staffing, your friend's husband may just be trying to do the best he can by both the fire dept and his family. He may see it as helping keep his brothers safe, by not being short staffed, while providing for his family. It is a tough situation to be in and every fire family has been there. As a wife, you learn to ride it out. I also have outside help to lighten my load a tad in the form of a two day a week mothers helper/nanny and a once a week house cleaner. We also make a date night a priority whenever we can; and I accept it may not be weekly. It's freaking hard, but I've learned to accept that my marriage will never look like other people's, and I have stopped comparing. It doesn't mean I don't sleep with his pillow and wish it was him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but I agree. Christians are only given a few outs in marriage and "he's paying too much attention to his job" simply isn't one of them. There is little more spiritually damaging than to use prooftexted verses to support a scripted view of marriage. Such a view elevates the importance of the "paper status" of a person's relationship and virtually ignores the fact that marriage is an organic relationship - not legal piece of paper. Many "marriages' are over long before the date stamp of the Judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeghansMom Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 You say you've prayed with her? Is she a Christian? Um, Christians are not to walk out of marriages because their spouse works too much. Does she have a church? Can you suggest to her and have your husband suggest to her husband that they book an appointment with their pastor to discuss this? If I've jumped to the wrong conclusion based on your mention of praying, I'm sorry and you can ignore me. What a tough place you are in. ETA: Please don't interpret this as me saying she is completely at fault. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church, and if she is feeling neglected that is not happening. But she is the one leaving the marriage. Christians are human just like everyone else and walk out of marriages for many different reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 As a wife, you learn to ride it out. I also have outside help to lighten my load a tad in the form of a two day a week mothers helper/nanny and a once a week house cleaner. We also make a date night a priority whenever we can; and I accept it may not be weekly. It's freaking hard, but I've learned to accept that my marriage will never look like other people's, and I have stopped comparing. It doesn't mean I don't sleep with his pillow and wish it was him. The same is true of military families. But, after over 20 years in it, there are definitely steps people can take to make things *better*. If the heavily working spouse isn't willing to do those things, then I definitely understand why the other spouse often leaves. The work/reward ration needs to be good enough to make it worth it to stay. I would rather the spouses walk away than hurt themselves or the kids or live with crushing depression. Things can definitely be better than that. They need to talk through it, preferably with a counselor, but if isn't willing, then he has already left the marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 But what if she can't ride it out ? Not everybody could. Not everybody has the wherewithal to deal with workaholism, even when it is for a noble cause ? Not everybody wants to deal with workaholism, no matter the package it comes in. Maybe he needs to reconsider his choice of career, as much as she needs to suck it up ? Nobody should feel shame at being unable to deal with something that frankly, sounds like an unhealthy work culture, in the end, that they could cope with in the beginning. And workaholism is a lauded process addiction, particularly for me in the US/western cultures. As such, it becomes even more difficult to change. In many ways, we revere men who work, work hard, work too much. My cut and paste is not working for this forum (anyone know why?) but Workaholics Anonymous has a couple of decent pages about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erin Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Christians are human just like everyone else and walk out of marriages for many different reasons. True. And they lie, cheat, steal, covet, gossip, and so on, too. But that doesn't make it biblically endorsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Sounds like he already has left the marriage. Really? I guess you could read the OP that way, or you could read it that he's a guy who has a stressful, demanding job that he has to bring home with him sometimes. He may be struggling as much as she is, which is why I suggested their friends encourage them to talk to someone who might be able to help them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 We don't really have enough information, but abandonment is biblical grounds for divorce. Sounds like she's feeling unloved even when he's home, and rather than address those issues he's hiding out at work. Can the fire department force him to take time off work so he can avoid divorce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Twenty Questions: How Do I Know If I'm A Workaholic? Do you get more excited about your work than about family or anything else? Are there times when you can charge through your work and other times when you can't? Do you take work with you to bed? On weekends? On vacation? Is work the activity you like to do best and talk about most? Do you work more than 40 hours a week? Do you turn your hobbies into money-making ventures? Do you take complete responsibility for the outcome of your work efforts? Have your family or friends given up expecting you on time? Do you take on extra work because you are concerned that it won't otherwise get done? Do you underestimate how long a project will take and then rush to complete it? Do you believe that it is okay to work long hours if you love what you are doing? Do you get impatient with people who have other priorities besides work? Are you afraid that if you don't work hard you will lose your job or be a failure? Is the future a constant worry for you even when things are going very well? Do you do things energetically and competitively including play? Do you get irritated when people ask you to stop doing your work in order to do something else? Have your long hours hurt your family or other relationships? Do you think about your work while driving, falling asleep or when others are talking? Do you work or read during meals? Do you believe that more money will solve the other problems in your life? The Problem - Characteristics of WorkaholicsIt is very difficult for us to relax. We often, if not always, feel the need to get just a few more tasks done before we can feel good about ourselves and allow ourselves to relax. When we do complete these tasks we find just a few more that we need to complete, and then a few more.... These uncontrollable desires often result in frantic, compulsive working. We are powerless to control this pattern. We are so used to doing what we are expected to do that we are often unable to know what it is that we really want to do and need to do for ourselves. We often feel that we must complete certain tasks, even though we do not want to, yet we are too scared to stop. We often feel resentment about having to complete tasks when we would rather relax or play. At these times we procrastinate, usually wallowing in self-pity and self-judgment. We become absorbed by our "stinking thinking," cannot concentrate on the task at hand, and yet are too scared to give up the task for a moment and allow ourselves the space we need. Our sense of self-esteem is based largely on our perceptions of how others judge our performance at work and in other areas of our lives. We often think of ourselves as either the most intelligent, capable people we know or the most incapable and worthless people we know. It is hard for us to see ourselves honestly and accept who we really are. We often betray ourselves by giving in to the demands of people whom we perceive as being in "authority." We operate out of the mini-crisis mode, using this as an escape from experiencing our true emotions. We do not often experience true serenity. We have an obsessive desire to understand everything in our lives, including our every emotion. We cannot allow ourselves to experience emotions that we do not understand, fearing our loss of control. We have an underlying fear that if we give up control and allow our emotions to surface, we will become raving lunatics for the rest of our lives. We judge ourselves by our accomplishments and hence have the illusion that we must always be in the process of accomplishing something worthwhile in order to feel good about ourselves. We cannot sit down and just be. We often go on intense work binges with the illusion that we need to get the praise of our fellow workers and bosses in order to feel OK. We have the illusion that people will like us more if we appear more competent than we actually are. Often when we are praised by others we tend to discount ourselves as not worthy of their praise. We tend to schedule ourselves for more than we can handle, believing people will like us more if we can do more and do it faster. We are often dishonest about our past experiences and our present capabilities, tending to not mention our failures and to exaggerate our successes. We believe that people will not respect us or like us just as we are. We hurt inside. Originally appears as pages 5-7 in the W.A. Book of Recovery. This literature is also available as a downloadable PDF file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Please. I beg you; don't ever, ever, ever say this in person to a Christian woman who has lived in a marriage in which leaving becomes an option. The "Christians are not to walk out of marriages because their spouse works too much" is very shaming, and not at all helpful. I guarantee you active Christians are well aware of how many Christians view marriage and what they think the Bible says about it. Did I suggest the OP say that to her friend? No, I did not. I did suggest that she see if she can encourage her friend and the husband to seek counseling before she walks out of the marriage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Really? I guess you could read the OP that way, or you could read it that he's a guy who has a stressful, demanding job that he has to bring home with him sometimes. He may be struggling as much as she is, which is why I suggested their friends encourage them to talk to someone who might be able to help them. My dh has been in a highly stressful, demanding job that takes him away from us for the last 20+ years (and often requires him taking work home), our entire marriage (the same is true of practically everyone we know). I do not usually feel over-whelmed, lonely, abandoned or any of that. If a spouse is feeling that way, it is usually because she isn't receiving support or consideration or love or kindness or anything from him. Therefore, people who have been through a lot of this make the logical conclusion that he's not putting effort into the marriage. That is the conclusion people draw from their own experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksr5377 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't get the logic of "my husband works too much so I want to kick him completely out of my life". Usually there is more going on. I think that this can breed resentment. It seems that eventually it begins to seem like the DH is CHOOSING work over family. While the DH may be thinking he needs to do this to provide for his family. My sister is currently going through a similar struggle with her DH. He has such a strong loyalty to his employer, but my sister is beginning to feel like that loyalty comes before her and the children. I'm hoping it doesn't end up like OP's story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maize Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 My dh has been in a highly stressful, demanding job that takes him away from us for the last 20+ years (and often requires him taking work home), our entire marriage (the same is true of practically everyone we know). I do not usually feel over-whelmed, lonely, abandoned or any of that. If a spouse is feeling that way, it is usually because she isn't receiving support or consideration or love or kindness or anything from him. Therefore, people who have been through a lot of this make the logical conclusion that he's not putting effort into the marriage. That is the conclusion people draw from their own experiences. There is another possibility: that the spouse who is feeling unloved is clinically depressed and has lost the ability to process love and concern from others. In such a case the person's perception of their circumstances and relationships may not accurately reflect the situation. If we only get one side of the story, and that second hand, there is no way to really know what is going on. What we can recognize based on the bare facts is that this family is in a stressful situation and that the wife feels the marriage is past salvaging, but whether that is the fault of the husband or even a true representation of the situation is impossible to say. (Speaking from some personal experience here as every time my husband has a depressive episode he is convinced that our relationship and marriage are in a shambles, whereas when he is not depressed he views our relationship quite positively. It's not circumstances affecting his outlook, it is his internal mental and emotional state.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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