Scared

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Tonight, I am re-thinking our Pastor's reaction.  Wouldn't he have the same protection with his wife to not tell anything she has told him?  I really am feeling strange about him and that he might know it was his wife.  He did tell us we should be grateful someone was "concerned"... The angry lady today may have just been angry about something else... I am unsure... I have to let it go for tonight.  I was up until 2:30 am cleaning out the basement and burning trash outside! Dh cleaned off the carport too at my suggestion he "help"... It was monumental what we got done.

[Catwoman]

Tonight, I am re-thinking our Pastor's reaction. Wouldn't he have the same protection with his wife to not tell anything she has told him? I really am feeling strange about him and that he might know it was his wife. He did tell us we should be grateful someone was "concerned"... The angry lady today may have just been angry about something else... I am unsure... I have to let it go for tonight. I was up until 2:30 am cleaning out the basement and burning trash outside! Dh cleaned off the carport too at my suggestion he "help"... It was monumental what we got done.

The bigger question is... Will you ever again be able to fully trust your pastor and his wife?

 

If he said you should be "grateful that someone was concerned," I'm amazed that you and your dh didn't tell him off then and there. He was entirely out of line.

 

Personally, I don't know why you went back at all, and I think you made a mistake by gossiping about what happened to the other women. I know you're upset about this, but being reported to the authorities isn't exactly something you should be advertising.

 

And seriously, if you felt the need to inform or warn others about what happened to you, why are you inviting more trouble by remaining at that church? You clearly don't trust the people there any more. (I don't blame you!!!)

 

It makes no sense to me, and quite honestly, based on what you've told us, I suspect the pastor's wife may have been the one who made the call. Otherwise, the pastor should have been positively livid on your behalf. (And of course he wouldn't rat out his own wife. He may be your pastor, but this is his wife we're talking about, so I wouldn't trust him to tell you if she'd reported you -- and I would also assume he fully supported her making that call. His reaction to what happened to your family was just way, way too casual, and that's why I think he knows more than he's saying, whether he knows it was his own wife or if it was another member of the congregation who told him they did it.)

[SKL]

... He did tell us we should be grateful someone was "concerned"... ....

 

Now that would make me angry.  If he truly is "naive" then he needs to be educated.

 

But I'm still not clear on how you know it was someone important at the church.  If there was in fact no black eye and this was a complete fabrication, then it might not have even been anyone who saw you last weekend.

 

Sounds like you suspect that it was the pastor's wife.  Maybe you could happen to run into her soon and bring this up and see what her reaction is.  If she appears to be feigning ignorance (vs. clearly ignorant), maybe ask her if she would be willing to testify on your behalf that your kids are safe as far as she can tell.  See what she says to that.  If you feel she was behind this, there's nothing to lose by asking her.

 

[FO4UR]

My little girl never did have 1 black eye much less 2.  Dh wants to go back and not worry about it at all.  I still do not want to go back.  

Thanks for prayers and advice.  

The woman who wanted a baby and is single just had a hysterectomy too.  She has been teaching our littles on Wednesday nights some and they have not had any bumps or bruises at all.  

I have pictures of them Saturday and took more and they all look much better. 

Thankfully the Social worker was not convinced of any abuse after questioning us all.   She still has to report to her supervisor. I am still not at ease and do not want to go back this Sunday until we do talk to the preacher and see what his reaction is.  

 

The women live next door to each other and the one who asked me about giving up my baby or 2 year old was not there Sunday.  

 

 

Our Preacher came over tonight. He didn't know anything about it at all. He took it too lightly in my opinion, and he wants us to stay and not let Satan win!

 

 

 

Put your foot down with hubby, and refuse to go back.  Worship at home if you have to, but do NOT go back.

 

 

Everything you post has screamed that you understand it isn't safe, and yet you seem powerless in this situation.  Find your power b/c you have it, and 8 dc need you to say "No more."

 

 

Your dh's response scares me more than the pastor's.  I could sort of maybe be convinced that the pastor is childless and just doesn't understand the ramifications of a CPS call.  (It's doubtful.  And he'd have no business being in ministry that NAIVE, but I digress...)  Your DH, however, is supposed to be protecting these kiddos along with you.  He's not taking you seriously.  He's not taking the fact that his kids are in jeopardy seriously.  This one is worth getting uncomfortably firm and laying out some demands.  #1 - We will not be a part of a church where our children are unsafe.

 

 

 

I understand that this decision doesn't seem as cut and dry as I have made it, but it REALLY is.  I have been in a similar situation as the PW...no CPS call, but the kids were equally unsafe and I had to become a very unpopular person in order to get them the heck away from toxic people. You will get over being unpopular or having a fight with dh.  You and your dc will NOT get over the horrors that are *probable* if you stay at that church.

 

It is probable that your kids will be harmed at that church.

It is probable that, no matter how severely they are harmed, the pastor will react in exactly the same manner.  "Don't let Satan win. Your child might have been ________, but ......."

 

 

No way!  Not my kids!  

[Soror]

I'm generally not paranoid but you need to stop talking to the lady who asked for your babies. No one does that who is mentally well, seriously, that is not normal no matter what her circumstances. She may be nice and I would be friendly but I would stick to general chit-chat. I believe I would leave the church as well.

[SKL]

It is probable that your kids will be harmed at that church.

It is probable that, no matter how severely they are harmed, the pastor will react in exactly the same manner.  "Don't let Satan win. Your child might have been ________, but ......."

 

 

That's a stretch in my opinion.

 

Every church has a few people with mental health issues.  Because every population does.  Churches don't throw out people for having mental health issues, nor should they.

 

Having someone anonymously call on you is scary and horrible no matter who did the calling.  I totally understand feeling very uncomfortable and a little paranoid for a while after that.  But I don't think it's a sustainable policy to leave a group every time you suspect someone might be looking at you (or your kids) funny.  Besides, people will form opinions as to why you disappeared from view.  It is something very frequently mentioned in alleged abuse cases - the mom keeps her kids away from everyone so maybe she is hiding the marks of abuse.  (If you are a homeschooler that could be used as further "evidence" of this.)  I personally feel that unless the church is a dud anyway, or you believe the pastor/his wife made (or supports) the call, it's better to keep going, hold your head high, and act like anyone who thinks that about you is insane.

 

[Aura]

OP, you should read The Gift of Fear. One of the main points it stresses is that people see warning signs that they are in danger, but they choose to reason them away.

 

You need to be careful not to reason away warning signs that your family could be in danger.

 

No one should be dismissing your concerns, least of all your dh or your pastor. You know your dh and probably already know how he thinks and why he hasn't taken this more seriously. And your pastor is using Christianese to try to deflect your concerns instead of taking them seriously.

 

Crazy woman asking for your babies is wrong, but the many possible scenarios and context make the danger level much harder to determine from the outside looking in.

 

However, someone taking the actual steps and giving a false report that could result in your children being wrongfully taken from their parents SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. This isn't something to just be brushed aside!

 

Both of those men should be chastised for dismissing your concern.

 

Don't dismiss your concerns just because other people dismiss them. Don't reason away warning signs to keep peace or to avoid being thought you're overprotective, paranoid, or whatever. Don't sell your instincts short.

 

I don't like confrontations, but I will access my inner Mama Bear if my kids need it. You may need to do the same.

[QueenCat]

United Methodist

 

Then I'm stunned at your pastor's reaction, due to the UMC stance on Safe Sanctuaries.

 

[SKL]

Safe Sanctuaries - I'm not sure exactly what that means - but again, there is no evidence that we know of that anything unsafe happened or is about to happen in the church.

 

While I do NOT believe in calling CPS for every "what if," it is not an unsafe action per se.  There are times when calling CPS is the right thing to do for safety's sake.  I am sure that no church takes an absolute stance against anyone calling CPS.  If a call was made by someone without the knowledge or involvement of the pastor, then due to the anonymous nature of the call, the pastor can't really take sides.  I mean, he can see the child does not have two black eyes, but he doesn't know if there was more to the story.  How does he know the caller didn't also report that the mom was seen pulling the child by the hair etc.?  It's a he said/she said situation and I don't honestly know what people expect the pastor to do about it.  If it was a series of calls, or calls by more than one person etc., I would think OK, maybe there is a bullying situation going on here, but from one single anonymous call, no.  He also doesn't know for sure the call was even made by a church member.  Unless he or his wife was involved in making the call, I don't think he can be held responsible.

[Garga]

Safe Sanctuaries - I'm not sure exactly what that means - but again, there is no evidence that we know of that anything unsafe happened or is about to happen in the church.

 

While I do NOT believe in calling CPS for every "what if," it is not an unsafe action per se.  There are times when calling CPS is the right thing to do for safety's sake.  I am sure that no church takes an absolute stance against anyone calling CPS.  If a call was made by someone without the knowledge or involvement of the pastor, then due to the anonymous nature of the call, the pastor can't really take sides.  I mean, he can see the child does not have two black eyes, but he doesn't know if there was more to the story.  How does he know the caller didn't also report that the mom was seen pulling the child by the hair etc.?  It's a he said/she said situation and I don't honestly know what people expect the pastor to do about it.  If it was a series of calls, or calls by more than one person etc., I would think OK, maybe there is a bullying situation going on here, but from one single anonymous call, no.  He also doesn't know for sure the call was even made by a church member.  Unless he or his wife was involved in making the call, I don't think he can be held responsible.

 

I agree that there's really nothing for the pastor to do.  How is he supposed to know what the truth was?  He hasn't heard all sides (unless it was his wife who called.)

 

But beyond the pastor's hands being tied, there's just too much here.  The woman who asked you to be a surrogate is probably ok.  She asked and you refused.  No harm in her asking.

 

But the woman who asked you for your actual children, conceived by your husband and yourself, to be given to her daughter is super-duper weird.  I mean, really, really crazy-weird.  

 

Adding a call to CPS on top of that is what makes this go beyond "Oh,there are crazies everywhere."  

 

Yes, there are crazies everywhere, but this family is being targeted.  Someone out there believes they are abusing their children.  Someone has asked to take their children.  If it's not the same person, perhaps they are safe.  But if it IS the same person?  Both asking for their children and then telling the authorities they're abusing their children?  That's huge.  That's scary.  That's being targeted.  That's unsafe.  These children could be kidnapped.  Seriously, kidnapped.  

 

I would be scared, too, OP (Since your thread title is Scared.)

[QueenCat]

Safe Sanctuaries - I'm not sure exactly what that means - but again, there is no evidence that we know of that anything unsafe happened or is about to happen in the church.

 

Safe Sanctuaries is a set of policies within the United Methodist Church. It sets guidelines on what should happen in certain situations. Based on Safe Sanctuaries, OP's pastor should be taking OP's concerns about the woman asking for the kids more seriously, based on OP's report, and ensuring said woman is at least looked into before working with any more children.

[SKL]

OP's pastor should be taking OP's concerns about the woman asking for the kids more seriously, based on OP's report, and ensuring said woman is at least looked into before working with any more children.

 

I didn't see where the OP said she told the pastor about the baby coveting incidents.  I thought she only told him about the CPS call.

[bzymom]

Pastor aside, this church does not seem a welcoming sanctuary for you and yours at this point.  It should be a place you can exhale and know you are loved and looked upon with kindness and compassion.  Any concerns about your children should have been addressed directly long before anybody picked up the phone to CPS, and if the congregation does not operate in that manner, you really should consider one that does.

[mathnerd]

These children could be kidnapped.  Seriously, kidnapped.  

 

This is my thought too. The weird lady might have targeted the OP's family and might think that calling the CPS might remove the OP's children from her. And this could be because she wants revenge for the OP refusing to give her kids to the weird lady or because she thinks that the CPS would then give her the children after removing them from the OP. Because nothing came out of the CPS call, she might try to kidnap the children.

 

OP, please watch your kids carefully. Mentally ill people may not think through consequences before they decide to kidnap children.

[Catwoman]

Ultimately, it doesn't even matter who reported her. It doesn't matter that at least a few members of the congregation sound a little (or a lot) loony.

 

What stands out in my mind is that she is no longer comfortable at the church.

 

That alone is enough to make me want to encourage her to find a new church. Who wants to be a part of any organization where you feel like you have to keep looking over your shoulder and wondering who is out to get you?

 

If this particular case, I think she has several excellent reasons for leaving the church, but even if she didn't, why should anyone go to a church where they don't feel safe and welcomed?

[FO4UR]

That's a stretch in my opinion.

 

Every church has a few people with mental health issues.  Because every population does.  Churches don't throw out people for having mental health issues, nor should they.

 

Having someone anonymously call on you is scary and horrible no matter who did the calling.  I totally understand feeling very uncomfortable and a little paranoid for a while after that.  But I don't think it's a sustainable policy to leave a group every time you suspect someone might be looking at you (or your kids) funny.  Besides, people will form opinions as to why you disappeared from view.  It is something very frequently mentioned in alleged abuse cases - the mom keeps her kids away from everyone so maybe she is hiding the marks of abuse.  (If you are a homeschooler that could be used as further "evidence" of this.)  I personally feel that unless the church is a dud anyway, or you believe the pastor/his wife made (or supports) the call, it's better to keep going, hold your head high, and act like anyone who thinks that about you is insane.

 

 

 

Churches can and should take drastic steps to protect children when they are threatened.  I've been a part of some wonderful churches that accept people with all sorts of mental illness.  The point at which a person becomes a danger to other people is the point at which they cannot come through those doors, atleast not without a responsible chaperone trained to deal with the specific issue at hand.  In THIS case, the OP has been asked to IGNORE the danger rather than have the mentally ill person cared for in an appropriate manner.  This is ASKING for trouble!!!!  It isn't showing any kind of grace to allow a situation where the mentally ill person will commit a crime, any more than it is to put the child in a vulnerable situation.  And, this woman is TEACHING the KIDS on Wednesday nights.  

 

 

This just screams of incompetence all over the place.  Just no no no!  I understand the struggles from the leadership POV...and just NO NO NO!!!  No excuse!

 

 

You are minimizing her concern with verbiage like, "leaving every time someone looks at you funny."  That's not an accurate assessment of this situation.  Her pastor and her dh are feeding her the same sort of verbiage. The danger here is that this gets swept under the rug and the Crazy Lady is emboldened by her apparent invinsibility...and you canNOT take back the trauma that could ensue.

 

I would err on the side of protecting the kids.  I don't CARE if that makes me look (fill in the blank...mean, guilty, etc...).  The opportunity for further harassment MUST be eliminated, and if the pastor or daddy isn't going to make that happen...Momma will!

[Mommy22alyns]

Oh my.   :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[SKL]

Churches can and should take drastic steps to protect children when they are threatened.  I've been a part of some wonderful churches that accept people with all sorts of mental illness.  The point at which a person becomes a danger to other people is the point at which they cannot come through those doors, atleast not without a responsible chaperone trained to deal with the specific issue at hand.  In THIS case, the OP has been asked to IGNORE the danger rather than have the mentally ill person cared for in an appropriate manner.  This is ASKING for trouble!!!!  It isn't showing any kind of grace to allow a situation where the mentally ill person will commit a crime, any more than it is to put the child in a vulnerable situation.  And, this woman is TEACHING the KIDS on Wednesday nights.  

 

 

This just screams of incompetence all over the place.  Just no no no!  I understand the struggles from the leadership POV...and just NO NO NO!!!  No excuse!

 

 

You are minimizing her concern with verbiage like, "leaving every time someone looks at you funny."  That's not an accurate assessment of this situation.  Her pastor and her dh are feeding her the same sort of verbiage. The danger here is that this gets swept under the rug and the Crazy Lady is emboldened by her apparent invinsibility...and you canNOT take back the trauma that could ensue.

 

I would err on the side of protecting the kids.  I don't CARE if that makes me look (fill in the blank...mean, guilty, etc...).  The opportunity for further harassment MUST be eliminated, and if the pastor or daddy isn't going to make that happen...Momma will!

 

Again, where did the OP say she told the pastor about Crazy Lady?  Where did the OP say the pastor blew off Crazy Lady?  Didn't the OP say she spoke to Crazy Lady and feels certain Crazy Lady did NOT report her?

 

I'm not sure we are all discussing the same facts.

 

 

[Spryte]

Why on earth would one want to continue attending church there?

 

I don't attend a church, so may be wrong in supposing it to be a safe, welcoming, peaceful place for the members. I would not feel safe, welcome, or peaceful there. And certainly, I'd feel judged, if not targeted as others have suggested.

 

If this were a different scenario, a co-op or school maybe, would the responses be different? Would removing one's family from the situation be easier?

 

I cannot imagine seeing my children having nightmares as a result of an ill founded report and continuing to socialize or regularly interact with the people who called and told lies (2 black eyes that weren't there) to purposely disrupt my family. It seems to me that not protecting my family in that situation would be letting evil win. Not knowing which church member did this would make it worse. I would never relax.

 

Maybe I simply don't understand the concept of being married to a particular church. I would think that you can worship the same god wherever you are, so why not make an effort to find that safe, welcoming, peaceful, non-judgmental home?

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I RARELY EVEN SWAT OUR CHILDREN MUCH LESS PULL THEIR HAIR!!! NEVER SPANK OUTSIDE OR IN A PUBLIC PLACE, EVEN CHURCH.  

 

I DID TELL THE PASTOR ABOUT THE LADY WHO ASKED ME TO BE A SURROGATE FOR ANOTHER SINGLE MOM.  THIS LADY CAME TO TAKE ME TO THE HOSPITAL FOR MY HUSBANDS EMERGENCY HEART SURGERY AND WHILE WAITING ON ANOTHER LADY TO COME WATCH OUR KIDS, SHE ASKED ME IF HER CHILDLESS DAUGHTER WHO WAS RECENTLY MARRIED COULD HAVE MY BABY... I TOLD HER NO NICELY AND THAT I LOVED MY UNBORN CHILD.  THEN SHE ASKED IF HER DAUGHTER COULD HAVE OUR SWEET SMILING 2 YEAR OLD SON WHOM EVERYONE LOVES!!!! I WAS SHOCKED EVEN MORE AND STILL SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT!  IT WAS A WEIRD RIDE TO THE HOSPITAL TO BE SURE.  I HAD OTHER FAMILY COME TO THE HOSPITAL SO SHE LEFT AND I WAS FOCUSED ON DH FOR A FEW DAYS SO PUT THAT ON THE BACK BURNER.  

 

I am not married to a religion or church.  I did grow up in this church and started attending at age 4 though.  I am not happy there anyway.  There is a Youth group, Sunday School, Breakfast and our 3 oldest were in a Lenten Drama for Easter for 6 weeks and then they performed it all in one night,  I had to stay home with our 3 littles but posted pictures of them on Facebook being silly and looking healed and healthy to be on the safe side.  

 

I know that it does not matter to me now  to know who called and I will never feel safe there again!  I talked to dh again and tried to explain this last night. He takes a few days to process things sometimes so I am waiting patiently.  We have more churches to visit and I am mentioning this as well.  The ones closest to us are not really an option as they have a lot of elderly people and a few children.  One is having major trouble with their preacher who is United Methodist as well and closer to us.  He was caught stealing and they want him back!  He is suspended.   Dear friends of ours were pastoring there and just had to leave but I have not asked why.  A few others are without preachers right now too!  

[Spryte]

I RARELY EVEN SWAT OUR CHILDREN MUCH LESS PULL THEIR HAIR!!! NEVER SPANK OUTSIDE OR IN A PUBLIC PLACE, EVEN CHURCH.  

 

I DID TELL THE PASTOR ABOUT THE LADY WHO ASKED ME TO BE A SURROGATE FOR ANOTHER SINGLE MOM.  THIS LADY CAME TO TAKE ME TO THE HOSPITAL FOR MY HUSBANDS EMERGENCY HEART SURGERY AND WHILE WAITING ON ANOTHER LADY TO COME WATCH OUR KIDS, SHE ASKED ME IF HER CHILDLESS DAUGHTER WHO WAS RECENTLY MARRIED COULD HAVE MY BABY... I TOLD HER NO NICELY AND THAT I LOVED MY UNBORN CHILD.  THEN SHE ASKED IF HER DAUGHTER COULD HAVE OUR SWEET SMILING 2 YEAR OLD SON WHOM EVERYONE LOVES!!!! I WAS SHOCKED EVEN MORE AND STILL SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT!  IT WAS A WEIRD RIDE TO THE HOSPITAL TO BE SURE.  I HAD OTHER FAMILY COME TO THE HOSPITAL SO SHE LEFT AND I WAS FOCUSED ON DH FOR A FEW DAYS SO PUT THAT ON THE BACK BURNER.  

 

I am not married to a religion or church.  I did grow up in this church and started attending at age 4 though.  I am not happy there anyway.  There is a Youth group, Sunday School, Breakfast and our 3 oldest were in a Lenten Drama for Easter for 6 weeks and then they performed it all in one night,  I had to stay home with our 3 littles but posted pictures of them on Facebook being silly and looking healed and healthy to be on the safe side.  

 

I know that it does not matter to me now  to know who called and I will never feel safe there again!  I talked to dh again and tried to explain this last night. He takes a few days to process things sometimes so I am waiting patiently.  We have more churches to visit and I am mentioning this as well.  The ones closest to us are not really an option as they have a lot of elderly people and a few children.  One is having major trouble with their preacher who is United Methodist as well and closer to us.  He was caught stealing and they want him back!  He is suspended.   Dear friends of ours were pastoring there and just had to leave but I have not asked why.  A few others are without preachers right now too!  

 

I'm sorry this has happened to you.  This is a community you've been part of since you were 4. That's rough, and choosing to leave would involve a lot of emotions, on top of an already emotional experience.

 

I didn't mean for any of my post to add to your distress, and hope that it didn't.  Since the all caps post from you came right after mine... I wanted to apologize in case what I said hurt your feelings or added to the pain.  

 

I truly feel for you here.  What a rough week you've had, and what a tough, vulnerable position you've been put into.

[SKL]

Well if you feel that way after having a few days to think about it, you are probably better off leaving the church.  Good luck getting your husband on the same page with you.

 

I didn't mean to imply that you pulled your child's hair.  Just saying that the pastor has to keep in mind that there is a whole other side of the story he has not heard (which might be more lies, but how would he know that?).  He can't responsibly take sides between church members when he's only heard your side of the story.  And I don't know how he could possibly find out the other side unless the caller came and talked to him too.

[Catwoman]

Well if you feel that way after having a few days to think about it, you are probably better off leaving the church. Good luck getting your husband on the same page with you.

 

I didn't mean to imply that you pulled your child's hair. Just saying that the pastor has to keep in mind that there is a whole other side of the story he has not heard (which might be more lies, but how would he know that?). He can't responsibly take sides between church members when he's only heard your side of the story. And I don't know how he could possibly find out the other side unless the caller came and talked to him too.

In this case, I think he could most certainly take sides. The accuser flat out lied and said that the child had two black eyes, which was absolutely false -- and a church filled with people saw her, so they knew she wasn't hurt.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It isn't the job of the pastor to be a judge and jury on this situation BUT it is his job to provide a safe place for people to worship and learn.  So that means that gossip, maligning and other destructive behavior is not just a sin but should be forbidden from the church for the sake of harmony and community.  Reporting someone to CPS can be destructive if it is not based on facts.  It doesn't matter if someone has just a "feeling" that something might be off - CPS will not look into something based on that and I think whoever reported this knew that.  So that person invented "facts" that were untrue for the sake of getting CPS to look into it and that is wrong.  No gray area here, in my opinion.  

 

Now, the pastor probably has no idea who might have made the call (unless it were his wife or is a very small church) and I don't think he should be asked to go on a witch hunt or to otherwise try and ferret out the reporter.  I do, however, think that it would be appropriate to make a general announcement to the church about church community and safety.  That should include a warning not to spread untruths about someone officially or unofficially.  And it should include a warning about keeping all children safe as well.  This is what the protector of a flock does - he leads people in a way that allows all to have the freedom to learn and grow in the community.  

 

As to staying in the church:  Are you being taught God's word?  Are you growing under the church's teachings?  Is the leadership wise?  Are children safe?  Is there any kind of religious abuse?  

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:  Praying that the Lord speaks to your husband in a way he will listen. Whether that's a whisper, or a smack on the head with the Holy Spirit. And that you find a new church home. <3

[SKL]

In this case, I think he could most certainly take sides. The accuser flat out lied and said that the child had two black eyes, which was absolutely false -- and a church filled with people saw her, so they knew she wasn't hurt.

 

Assuming he takes the OP's information at face value (and if he knows her well, hopefully he does), then he should be supportive in private, but I don't know what more he could do.

 

He did say "don't let Satan win," which seems to imply that he believes the reporter was doing evil (lying, being malicious).

 

I don't know, I'm 50/50 here.  Like I said before, I'd be angry if my pastor told me I should be glad that someone is concerned for my kids' safety with me (or their father).  Nobody needs to be concerned about me abusing my kids, thank you very much!  That was an idiotic comment at best, given that he knows the family going way back.  Certainly doesn't give me warm fuzzies.

 

I am not very religious, but I value continuity of church membership for my kids.  They also go to the same school.  As I've mentioned before, the pastor's wife was my kids' teacher last year, and she was pretty awful to my kid and to me on several occasions.  Plus I get the feeling she really doesn't like me or my kids.  Not sure how much of this spills over into her husband's opinion.  Also, many of the people who work/volunteer in the school are active church members.  There were times when I felt very uncomfortable there, but I felt that leaving would be a drastic step that could hurt my kids more than help them.  A year later, things are hunky dory again.  But they could easily turn ugly again.  I understand how difficult this decision is for the OP's family.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

Unfortunately the church has had more pastors than I can count right now.... so he has only been there roughly 5 years and we have been back for a little over 3 1/2.  

His personality is High I on the DISC test if he was tested he would know some of the warnings of this.  He is a great salesman and makes a HIGH commission.  He has lied to our dc on several occasions setting them up for huge disappointments.  He makes promises and calls to ask about Horse camp, or tells them at church that they can come see his horses and ride them.  Then he tells us Horse camp is full, or just says nothing at all.  My kids expect something to actually happen if someone makes big promises or calls to invite them somewhere.  

 

I had to ask DH to talk to him about this over 2 years ago.  I had to deal with all of the emotional damage he was causing.  I asked him to tell him he had hurt our dc emotionally and to not invite any of them anywhere if he did not mean it.  

 

He started doing better on that issue.  

 

Back to the High I personality.  This helps me give him grace.  I do love his preaching and personality when he talks about the Gospel and he is excited about evangelism.  

His wife taught our young ones one Wednesday night and made it clear she would not do that again any time soon.  

They have a young daughter who chooses not to go to the class.  She is very spoiled, rude, and has fallen off of horses several times.

 

I do not expect him to spend a lot of time taking other dc horse back riding.  I understand completely that he works out of town a lot and needs time with his little family.  I just hate that he has made so many promises of his own accord and he has started it again.  

I had to deal with an angry 14 yr. old today over Church Camp.  I did not sign her up and did not even remember it Sunday Morning after cleaning until 2:30 am and taking several loads to the burn pile to burn.  

 

I feel like he values children very much, but he just can't do all that he would like to do.  He usually reads a Bible story to the dc during church and asks them questions.  He also has a penny jar for them to all put money in to help a UM Children's Home in our state.  

 

I think I just hate to uproot the consistency and I know we will miss many of the people.  It is a small church of about 100 people on average.  No one really supports home schooling and I try not to talk about it.  We are the largest family to be sure and the only hs family.  

 

I think this makes it more difficult for me to be able to share or fellowship in Sunday School at times.  There is no Adult or Women's ministry with the exception of UMW which is elderly ladies and they were hosting our 3 daughters and other girls for lessons on knitting, baking cookies to give out in the community, and making stockings.  That dropped off after December and they miss it.  They also dropped the Wednesday night meal making it difficult to get there in time and have supper.

 

We did visit a church with 2 or 3 hs families during the time we left this church.  I am willing to try it again.  They have more for the children and a meal on Wednesday night with a small fee.  I liked it, but my father was dying and I could not be very involved, although dh and I did join a parenting Bible study and enjoyed that very much.  They also have more help and more safety instilled with nursery workers and pagers.  

 

People from our church started calling and sending cards telling us how much they missed us and how much they liked this preacher.

 

Now for some good things about him:  He is good about coming to visit and talk to us if he is in town and we have a major need.  He also volunteered to go with the lady who wanted me to surrogate since he thought she would be good for our dd14 who was having a rough time.  They went to lunch a few times.  

 

He has invited our dc over 1 time to ride horses, and recently took our dd14 with their family to look at a horse for their young daughter.  

 

There are not enough children in our church and I know that is one thing he will miss about us leaving.  Probably the Main reason he would not want us to leave.

 

I certainly did not want him to try and find out who it was, but would like honesty if it was his wife.  

 

I plan to call the lawyer tomorrow and see if I can find out what we can do legally if anything at all.  We do want to know who it was regardless of whether or not we leave.  

 

Emotionally, I just cannot handle going back on Sunday mornings right now.  It is too stressful.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I'm generally not paranoid but you need to stop talking to the lady who asked for your babies. No one does that who is mentally well, seriously, that is not normal no matter what her circumstances. She may be nice and I would be friendly but I would stick to general chit-chat. I believe I would leave the church as well.

Thank you!  I fell like I have been a bird in a cage of some sort.  She and her husband teach our Adult Sunday School Class.  They were gone for 7 months visiting their adopted son in a correctional facility he was in and they had to visit on Sunday's.  I did like SS better then!  I am feeling more liberated and less like a door mat now.  I have battled the door mat syndrome before.  

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

I'm sorry this has happened to you.  This is a community you've been part of since you were 4. That's rough, and choosing to leave would involve a lot of emotions, on top of an already emotional experience.

 

I didn't mean for any of my post to add to your distress, and hope that it didn't.  Since the all caps post from you came right after mine... I wanted to apologize in case what I said hurt your feelings or added to the pain.  

 

I truly feel for you here.  What a rough week you've had, and what a tough, vulnerable position you've been put into.

Thank you... I was not hurt by anyone on here over this.  I had read quickly through some posts and saw some misunderstanding of who asked for my children.  I was just clarifying there was only 1 person ever asking.  It has hindered my relationship with her and the other 2 ladies more than I had even realized.  I feel like the goose that laid the golden eggs for some reason.  I hate that anyone would be so desperate to ask me for a child! 

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[Harriet Vane]

I have been following this thread and read every post.

 

Your pastor sounds immature.

 

The church is really small, which means that Crazy Lady is a dominant part, especially if she is one of the few teachers.

 

Go. You will never be able to relax there. Yes, there are good things there, but there will be good things at other places too. Go. Leave this dysfunctional, emotionally enmeshed environment. Explore your other options.

[bolt.]

I reiterate: there is no reason not to find a congregation where you will be more comfortable.

 

As for your DH, try something this: "DH, do you understand that I have told you I am deeply uncomfortable and fearful attending xyz Church, and an therefore incapable of worshipping due to that fear? Why then are you saying, 'I want to go to a Chuch where my wife feels fear instead of worshipping God.'? Do you really mean that whether or not your wife can worship isn't something you think about when choosing a Church? This is not a matter if which if us prefers which congregation: it's a matter of the basic requirement that both of us be capable of going there and actually doing spiritual things -- at all. Preferences are up for debate, but places where either one of us 'just can't do it' need to be off the list."

[DawnM]

Did your neighbor call CPS as well?  Do you now have two reports on file?  

 

Dawn

 

 

Thanks so much for all of your prayers and comments.

 

It has to be someone in our church because our 1 year old has not been anywhere else this week.

 

We are close to our SS class and our Preacher as well as some other elderly people.  

 

I really cannot fathom who it was, even our older dc are flabbergasted and perplexed.  

 

This does not help: our Preacher's wife works for Social Services in the county our church is in.  We live just a little over the line in another county.

 

We have already had trouble with a lying neighbor and that makes this more scary because of the malicious social worker we had then.  

 

Still, it is so unsettling to even think we had a meal after church and no one came up and said they were concerned about our 1 year old who was happy and eating well.  

 

There are some people angry at dh because he had to fire them, but it does not make sense to me since they have not seen our children lately.

 

[Tiramisu]

About people who work for CPS, they see a lot, very serious cases, and can distinguish between what's worthy of investigation and what's not, as long as they aren't nutty themselves.  For someone in the profession to be motivated enough, to make a phone call, what they saw would have to be pretty bad. I have a family member who worked for our state's version of CPS, and she's the last person in the world to make an unsubstantiated report. It would have to be very bad. For that reason, I vote against the Pastor's wife.

 

The pastor's comment was a measly attempt to smooth things over.

 

Well, it sounds like the OP is really ready for a move. I hadn't realized when I posted previously that her church isn't helping her spiritual life. In that case, you now have a good opportunity to move on. Pray that your dh will come to the same conclusion and ask Our Lord to help you find your new home.

[TGHEALTHYMOM]

It isn't the job of the pastor to be a judge and jury on this situation BUT it is his job to provide a safe place for people to worship and learn.  So that means that gossip, maligning and other destructive behavior is not just a sin but should be forbidden from the church for the sake of harmony and community.  Reporting someone to CPS can be destructive if it is not based on facts.  It doesn't matter if someone has just a "feeling" that something might be off - CPS will not look into something based on that and I think whoever reported this knew that.  So that person invented "facts" that were untrue for the sake of getting CPS to look into it and that is wrong.  No gray area here, in my opinion.  

 

Now, the pastor probably has no idea who might have made the call (unless it were his wife or is a very small church) and I don't think he should be asked to go on a witch hunt or to otherwise try and ferret out the reporter.  I do, however, think that it would be appropriate to make a general announcement to the church about church community and safety.  That should include a warning not to spread untruths about someone officially or unofficially.  And it should include a warning about keeping all children safe as well.  This is what the protector of a flock does - he leads people in a way that allows all to have the freedom to learn and grow in the community.  

 

As to staying in the church:  Are you being taught God's word?  Are you growing under the church's teachings?  Is the leadership wise?  Are children safe?  Is there any kind of religious abuse?  

I do think our pastor could have taken the lies a little more seriously and not sided with the accuser.  

 

I have pondered  your questions and after listening to John StoneStreet in Cincy yesterday, I am convinced we need a new church.  There is what I consider too small of a congregation and controlling people.  There is no way to know  who actually called, and I don't want to call a lawyer.  I have a gut feeling it is just a family or group that wants us to leave.  If we don't, I am sure they will keep calling. I am not happy with the Youth group leaders and their permissive attitudes which were confirmed when one of them came and took 4 of our dc to the Play.  

[elegantlion]

I've read through this all since you posted. I'm sorry, you sound so stressed over it all.  :grouphug:  Church is supposed to be a place of comfort, encouragement and fellowship. I'm sorry you're going through this. I wish you peace and wisdom for you and your dh through it all. 

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

I do think our pastor could have taken the lies a little more seriously and not sided with the accuser.  

 

I have pondered  your questions and after listening to John StoneStreet in Cincy yesterday, I am convinced we need a new church.  There is what I consider too small of a congregation and controlling people.  There is no way to know  who actually called, and I don't want to call a lawyer.  I have a gut feeling it is just a family or group that wants us to leave.  If we don't, I am sure they will keep calling. I am not happy with the Youth group leaders and their permissive attitudes which were confirmed when one of them came and took 4 of our dc to the Play.  

 

Did they actually leave the building with them, or was the Play in a different part of the church? Either way; YIKES!

[Tiramisu]

I do think our pastor could have taken the lies a little more seriously and not sided with the accuser.  

 

I have pondered  your questions and after listening to John StoneStreet in Cincy yesterday, I am convinced we need a new church.  There is what I consider too small of a congregation and controlling people.  There is no way to know  who actually called, and I don't want to call a lawyer.  I have a gut feeling it is just a family or group that wants us to leave.  If we don't, I am sure they will keep calling. I am not happy with the Youth group leaders and their permissive attitudes which were confirmed when one of them came and took 4 of our dc to the Play.  

 

Okay, I'm convinced. Something is very, very wrong there.

 

I believe God is preparing a path for a wonderful, new spiritual home for you. Just hang in until it becomes clear.

[Guest]

After the added info, I agree with the others.  Church should be a place you feel safe and comfortable.  I would be livid if our pastors dismissed my concerns like that.  And I honestly don't get your dh taking a few days to process.  My dh knows that if it concerns me enough to make a big deal out of it, it IS a big deal, and he gets behind me.