X-Post (sorry) but anyone post about China busted for cheating in gymnastics?

[LG Gone Wild]

Supposedly one of the sixteen year olds still has baby teeth.

[LG Gone Wild]

Supposedly one of the gymnasts has baby teeth.

[JudoMom]

I don't understand why there is not going to be an investigation and verification of their ages. They appear to be quite a bit younger than 16 and I would think that would be enough to do something.

[Jami]

This seemed like a pretty thorough overview to me

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

Evidently their birthdates were listed differently at an event in 2007. You'd think that would be evidence enough for further investigation.

[JudoMom]

This seemed like a pretty thorough overview to me

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

Evidently their birthdates were listed differently at an event in 2007. You'd think that would be evidence enough for further investigation.

 

I just keep thinking these girls will have to lie about their ages forever now. Sad.

[phathui5]

I'm not suprised in the least though.

[Ravin]

DH told me he'd read somewhere that a third party investigation was going to happen.

 

The truly crazy thing is having the age restriction to begin with. Female gymnasts are at their prime from about age 13-16. That means for many, the chance to compete in the Olympics is shut out almost entirely. For others, they won't be able to compete when they're at their best.

[LadyAberlin]

I don't understand why there is an age restriction. If you're the best your the best whether your 13 or 16. I would understand age brackets if it was the case of a 16 yr old trying to compete against 13 yr olds when a 16 yr old would have had more experience, but if a 13 yr old wants to compete against more experienced gymnasts, why not?

[Brenda in FL]

I hadn't heard this - was this the ladies team? I had heard mention that there was some age related controversy but this was before they won.

[Amy in Orlando]

I haven't heard this, but I'd believe it. Most of those girls are 16 like I am 16. Well, not like I am 16 but you know what I mean. Those girls are very, very young.

[Elaine]

Yep. And Nastia Liukin got robbed on her vault!:glare: Chitters.

[LG Gone Wild]

I hadn't heard this - was this the ladies team? I had heard mention that there was some age related controversy but this was before they won.

 

msnbc.com, drudgreport.com, michellemalkin.com and another one that I can't remember

 

The thing about baby teeth was a quip but according to drudge's link , it was in a chinese newspaper that published the an article identifying the true age of the girl which is 13.

[Tarheel Heather]

Yep. And Nastia Liukin got robbed on her vault!:glare: Chitters.

 

And Shawn on her beam and bars, Nastia on her bar routing as well! The Chinese are paying the judges to Chitter. Copious amounts of chitters!

[Elaine]

And Shawn on her beam and bars, Nastia on her bar routing as well! The Chinese are paying the judges to Chitter. Copious amounts of chitters!

 

Someone on Michelle Malkin's blog left this comment, "Now, now, communists don’t cheat. Look at the pictures, they’re old enough to wear eye make up."

 

It's so pathetic. I wonder how much the Chinese paid the judges?

[Tarheel Heather]

Someone on Michelle Malkin's blog left this comment, "Now, now, communists don’t cheat. Look at the pictures, they’re old enough to wear eye make up."

 

It's so pathetic. I wonder how much the Chinese paid the judges?

 

It really is a shame, the scores are ridiculous!

[Amy in Orlando]

Someone on Michelle Malkin's blog left this comment, "Now, now, communists don’t cheat. Look at the pictures, they’re old enough to wear eye make up."

 

It's so pathetic. I wonder how much the Chinese paid the judges?

 

I think the whole thing is so sad. I hate explaining this to my kids. They are attuned to what 16-year-old girls look like and even they can see these girls are closer to their little brother's age.

 

This is a blog I ran into today and I think her post about this subject is wonderful. http://www.lifewithmy3boybarians.com/

[mommaduck]

Really isn't a surprise (and I say that only because China is trying to "put on the show", get everyone to like them, and take focus off of their human rights violations). I'm skipping the Olympics this year...I'll catch them next time around.

[Elaine]

Egads! I think that I just lost all respect for the Chinese as a whole. I watched this and I am still weepy.

[sdWTMer]

Well, I had baby teeth until they were pulled when I was in my 20's!

[sdWTMer]

Egads! I think that I just lost all respect for the Chinese as a whole. I watched this and I am still weepy.

 

Oh, Elaine...I couldn't make it the whole way thru! How sad! Kids at a young age are pretty much told they're worthless if they don't make the team! :(

[Tap]

So, I understand the ethics of them breaking the rules. But, how is it an unfair advantage by having underage kids compete? Were these part of the group of girls that they hand picked to grow up in gyms from the time they were preschoolers and the older kids were not? If the girls were competing from a young age, wouldn't there have already been records of their scores? Are the older Chinese girls not good enough to compete at this level?

[Sue G in PA]

Yes, :iagree: the age restriction is a bit ridiculous. If you are good enough to earn a spot on the team, why does the age matter. What gets me about China is how young these girls are when they begin training. I heard the commentator say how they take these girls when they are 3 years old away from their parents (with the parents blessing) to train them for the Olympics and they don't get to see their family except maybe once a year after that! :001_huh: It broke my heart. Now, the age restriction thing is simply a matter of principal. Since the rule is in effect, they are breaking the rules.

[Amy in Orlando]

Really isn't a surprise (and I say that only because China is trying to "put on the show", get everyone to like them, and take focus off of their human rights violations). I'm skipping the Olympics this year...I'll catch them next time around.

 

We're not skipping them and I have to say I've had some wonderful conversations with my kids lately. (And, I'm sure we're not the only family) I don't think we're coming from different points of view, too much, just different approaches.

[Elaine]

Oh, Elaine...I couldn't make it the whole way thru! How sad! Kids at a young age are pretty much told they're worthless if they don't make the team! :(

 

I know, it's awful right? My baby is going to be 5 in February. I simply cannot imagine leaving him like that. Never would leave him like that.

[Jean in Newcastle]

It is an unfair advantage because other countries may have talented under-age gymnasts that have to wait. Younger girls are more flexible than older ones, I believe. It isn't an advantage - but there is the ethical consideration of the threat of injury to young girls who compete at this level.

[GWTW93]

I was watching the individual competitions tonight and finally had to stop. The commentators pointed out four mistakes from one of the Chinese competitors and she ended up with the same score as one of our competitors, who made no mistakes. They were confused, and so am I.

 

I also noticed the other night that one of the girls still had her baby teeth. It makes me angry to think about it; they're not playing fair. A 12-year-old is much more limber and agile than a 16-year-old. Yes, the 16yo has the experience, but her body is bigger and can't move as well as a 12yo.

 

I had also heard the girls are taken around age 3. I also heard one of the gymnastics wanted to stop, but her parents said no because they have a much better life now that their child is involved in the gymnastics. It makes me more and more grateful that I live in the USA!

[mommaduck]

I have to say, another reason I'm "skipping them" (totally selfish reason here)...everytime I flip through the channels, they are showing soccer. I have no interest in watching a soccer match (though I like playing soccer). I really only have an interest in gymnastics and ice skating where the Olympics are concerned ;)

[keptwoman]

I am not boycotting the Olympics, much as I disagree with China getting them in the first place. I read an interesting comment somewhere a day or two before they started. It was from a Chinese person, just a random off the street person. What they said was along the lines of that the world didn't like China, then they did all this work, put on great Olympics, cleaned up the city and the westerners still found something to complain about (the smog and something else, I forget) and they genuinely couldn't understand why everyone was so anti-China and they were very hurt by it.

 

Now I'm as against Chinas human rights records as the next guy, and as I said I don't think they should have got the games.

 

But they did, and I guess a lot of us have forgotten the average Chinese person who has no choice in their government and what their government does. And perhaps we could be a bit gentler on the people for the sake of the many many millions of people who are innocent Chinese. It was a bit of a wake up call to me that while it's OK to condemn the government of China for it's behaviour, we need to be very careful not to lump all of China into that. And we need to be thoughtful of it's citizens who are as proud of their country as I am of mine and you are of yours.

 

I hope that all made sense.

 

I haven't heard anything about China cheating in the gymnastics, but China is not alone in cheating, many athletes from many countries cheat, so I don't think we can cast China as the bad guy for it.

[Jugglin'5]

Well after getting robbed on their earlier scores, Nastia and Shawn finish 1st and 2nd anyway. Kudos to them for not letting it get to them. They are some cool customers.

[Amy in Orlando]

Egads! I think that I just lost all respect for the Chinese as a whole. I watched this and I am still weepy.

 

:sad: Oh wow, I just watched all five parts. It's heartbreaking. No wonder that whole girls' gymnastics team never smiles.

 

Athletes here train just as hard and some even start as young, but it's their choice and they're not ripped from their families nor are they simply dismissed for body types.

 

I've no doubt the Chinese parents think they are doing what's best. But, what a price to pay as a country in the long run. Especially in a country where the state can take your ONLY child as early as 3.

 

I'm going to go kiss my 8 yr-old who is constantly approached by swimming coaches (because he has THAT body and swims well) and tuck him and his stuffed turtle (don't tell his friends he still sleeps with the turtle) in snugly.

 

He still has time to decide for himself what he wants to do. And when he decides, he can make that decision knowing it will not impact the rest of his family.

[teamturner]

I know, it's awful right? My baby is going to be 5 in February. I simply cannot imagine leaving him like that. Never would leave him like that.

 

According to that first father that left his just turned 5yo son at that school, "children who live with their parents are spoiled." I could not believe that statement. What a sad state of affairs for families in China if they believe that kind of thinking.

 

The whole training facility they had going reminded me of the movie Farewell My Concubine. That was one of the most depressing movies I've ever seen. All these homeless boys end up in some kind of horrible training facility for the theatre in pre-communist China.

 

I guess you just want your dc to be spoiled Elaine! :confused: And they'll grow up to be lazy.

[Amy in Orlando]

I just tried to put this link on my blog. It's been "deleted by request" Scary.

[Kris]

I know there was a lot of speculation last night, but is there a link to a news story?

[Amy in Orlando]

Elaine posted this link to a documentary (german, swedish maybe?) this It's blocked now.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=DcAiUWfYgbM

 

This is one part of it. You can go to You Tub and see if you can find the rest. Li Hiaoshuang Gymnastics

[Kris]

Elaine posted this link to a documentary (german, swedish maybe?) this It's blocked now.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=DcAiUWfYgbM

 

This is one part of it. You can go to You Tub and see if you can find the rest. Li Hiaoshuang Gymnastics

 

Sorry -- YouTube is for broadband, not dial-up. ;)

 

I thought the OP was about China's gymnastics team being under the required age of 16 -- and getting busted for it. I assumed there would be a newspaper article about that?

 

I better go back and read that again --

[Snickerdoodle]

The first link is to a Dutch movie and it's working for me right now.

[Amy in Orlando]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,403584,00.html Here's one link. I'm sure you could check any credible news source and find the same information.

 

Nothing has been substantiated. The Chinese government issued their passports and that's all that' s needed. I wouldn't be surprised if the gymnasts and the other athletes had to submit to a bone scan to prove their ages in 2012.

[Mrs Mungo]

I believe the age restrictions were made a few years ago because of the potential trauma to little 11 and 12 yo bodies that were still growing. By 16 yo most girls have stopped growing.

 

Yes, it was damaging to many girls' bones and ligaments. Just because you *can* do something doesn't always mean you *should*. There are also huge problems with eating disorders in gymnastics and figure skating, that's why those two sports were kind of singled out for disallowing younger girls.

[Kris]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,403584,00.html Here's one link. I'm sure you could check any credible news source and find the same information.

 

Nothing has been substantiated. The Chinese government issued their passports and that's all that' s needed. I wouldn't be surprised if the gymnasts and the other athletes had to submit to a bone scan to prove their ages in 2012.

 

Thanks for the link. I knew there was a lot of suspicion and allegations were made -- and the link confirms that. I misunderstood the OP. I thought she was referring to the results of some kind of investigation.

 

Just to be clear: I don't think those girls looked like they were 16, either. But the linked article's sources are "some official records" and a Xinhua news report (now unavailable). Are they referring to the information from Xinhua as "some official records?" That's not clear to me.

 

China might be "busted" in the court of public opinion, but not where it counts, i.e., via the results of an official investigation. China cares not one iota about the former, and the latter is unlikely.

[laylamcb]

Here's an article from The Washington Post that helped clarify the age thing for me. He also briefly explains why being younger is an advantage in gymnastics. A good read!

[Marie in Oh]

I think they really are trying to protect girls (and boys) with the age restrictions. Other sports do not have the same age restrictions-- there was a 15 yo swimmer who qualified last night. Anyway, my two daughters are in a USA Gymnastics program and they can not compete til they are 6 no matter how good they are. So, there are training programs for 5 and 6 yos who are on the fast track to the team, and they do in house meets, but they are not allowed to compete at the regional meets. They call it pre-team. They aren't in the gym more than 2 hours a week, but they learn the routines etc and are getting ready. They are trying to protect their little bodies, and I respect that. As on poster said, just because they can do the skills, doesn't mean they should.

[JFSinIL]

I was going to not fret about it until hubby pointed out how we probably also had some good 14 - 15 yr-olds we'd have sent if we could, and maybe we'd have the all-around medal. Cheating is cheating.

[GreenKitty]

Cheating is cheating. If their are rules for the Olympics then they should be followed.

[sleepy]

Egads! I think that I just lost all respect for the Chinese as a whole. I watched this and I am still weepy.

 

I just finished watching part 1, I don't think I can watch the rest.

[Gretchen in NJ]

This seemed like a pretty thorough overview to me

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

Evidently their birthdates were listed differently at an event in 2007. You'd think that would be evidence enough for further investigation.

:iagree: My girls want to know why they are so much younger then everyone else.

 

At least, we took gold and silver last night!:D

[Jennifer in MI]

I just finished watching part 1, I don't think I can watch the rest.

 

same here. I just started bawling watching that poor 5 yo being left without saying goodbye to his dad. Where was the mom? Can you imagine leaving a THREE year old there???

 

I agree - rules are rules. Whether you agree with them or not, they are there for a reason and need to be followed.

[Gretchen in NJ]

Egads! I think that I just lost all respect for the Chinese as a whole. I watched this and I am still weepy.

This was so very sad.

[dangermom]

The age restrictions got put in place for the above reasons, and because a lot of countries were working those growing girls to the point that their bodies would break down by their mid-teens. So sure, they were winning hugely at 13-14, but a couple of years later they were done for. The rules were made to prevent that kind of abuse.

 

Smaller, lighter bodies have a big advantage on the uneven bars and vaults. The older girls are stronger and more muscular, but they aren't as light and flexible.

 

Just looking at those little girls--they are hardly bigger than my 8yo daughter, and they don't look much more developed. They make the American girls, who you know are teeny, look like giants.

[Gretchen in NJ]

The age restrictions got put in place for the above reasons, and because a lot of countries were working those growing girls to the point that their bodies would break down by their mid-teens. So sure, they were winning hugely at 13-14, but a couple of years later they were done for. The rules were made to prevent that kind of abuse.

 

Smaller, lighter bodies have a big advantage on the uneven bars and vaults. The older girls are stronger and more muscular, but they aren't as light and flexible.

 

Just looking at those little girls--they are hardly bigger than my 8yo daughter, and they don't look much more developed. They make the American girls, who you know are teeny, look like giants.

:iagree:, but from the video Elaine posted that is not stopping China.

[astrid]

Really isn't a surprise (and I say that only because China is trying to "put on the show", get everyone to like them, and take focus off of their human rights violations). I'm skipping the Olympics this year...I'll catch them next time around.

 

Can't say I"m surprised in the least. I"m still so disappointed that the IOC gave China the games in the first place. This is the first year ever that I"m boycotting the Olympics. I haven't watched five seconds of it. Sorry, but it just disgusts me-- the ridiculous scores, the fake fireworks, the "cute girl" lip synching the national anthem, the murder of that poor coach's parents, and now the prepubescent gymnasts.

 

So sad.

 

Astrid