What does bedtime look like if you have young children?

[Gentlemommy]

Because it's not working here. :(

Here's the quick version-

3 kiddos. 8.5, 5.5, and 3. Middle dd is usually the best sleeper, she very rarely gives me trouble.

We moved four months ago, and dd3 (then 2) gave up napping.

Since then, she's had night terrors 99% of the time.

Girls all wanted to sleep in one room, so they have a bunk bed (for the older two) and a toddler bed in there.

Bedtime ritual is normal stuff, bath, teeth and hair brushed, read a story (they each pick one), kisses, and I leave.

Assume I'm alone, because dh travels a lot.

 

The problems?

 

Dd3 gets bored when I'm reading the chapter for older dd's. She climbs, jumps, is loud, and disruptive. I give her warnings. I give her books she can look at. I can not separate her, because there isn't a safe place for me to contain her outside of the bedroom. Putting her to bed first doesn't work because she wants her sisters in there. So that's one issue.

After I tuck them in and leave, she is all over the place. Climbing the bunk bed, jumping off her bed, keeping her sisters awake. Issue two.

Third issue is her night terrors. They are disrupting the big girls sleep. I do go in as soon as I hear her, but since she is screaming and out of control (think raging, thrashing, ect) it wakes them up. I recently out her mattress in my room, thinking that would help. It didn't. She WILL NOT go to sleep on her own in my room. She screams like I'm killing her, runs out over and over, ect. She wants to be in my bed, with me. Which is fine, AFTER the initial going to bed. I don't mind her in my bed, but I can't be held hostage there because I have two other kiddos. She wakes if I lay with her and get out of bed.

Fourth issue, dd8 is staying up entirely too late reading. While I am SO happy she is reading it is affecting her the following day. If I take her kindle/book away, she says she can't sleep.

Currently, bedtime is very stressful. I hate it. By 8 pm, I am tired and thinking about how the next hour and a half is going to go, I get very edgy. I am finding myself yelling or threatening every night because someone is always getting up.

 

What I'd like-

We do the bedtime routine. Everyone picks a book, and I read. Dd3 can look at picture books while I'm reading to the older two, or just lay down and relax. She can fall asleep in her little bed in my room, and when she wakes at night, she comes into my bed.

I want my evenings with dh. He's gone too much for me to be sitting in bed, awake, but unable to move because dd will wake up. Currently he is sleeping in the guest room. He's totally fine with it, he knows dd is going through some issues right now with sleep. No pressure from him, it's me. I also can't set my alarm and wake up before the kids, because dd will wake up and be cranky. Melatonin doesn't work for her, she is (of course) the 1% that gets nightmares from it.

I know that dd3 is lacking sleep. Her behavior during most of the day is horrid. It is SO much better on the days she takes a 20 minute nap. I am trying to get their to do that, but she won't consistently. When she sleeps a fuller night, she is also so much better the next day.

 

Help me find a better solution to this please. I hate hate that their last moments awake are so stressful. It's not fair to them at all.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Answering the title:

At 8:30 Daddy takes ds7 and ds4.5 upstairs for bed. He brushes their teeth and sometimes flosses them. Then he reads a short devotion, they pray, kisses, goodnight in their bunk beds. Less than 10 minutes usually. Sometimes they go to sleep right away, sometimes they talk and play in the dark. Usually they're asleep by 9/9:15pm.

Maybe you should try a shorter routine and a little bit later bedtime.

[Whereneverever]

What time does she fall asleep? Wake up?

[Ellie]

No reading aloud at bedtime. Baths and in bed for the dc, hugs and kisses, lights out no later than 8 p.m.

 

I'm thinking you cannot afford bedtime reading if you want children to go to sleep.

 

And in my house, given that my children are neurotypical, there would be spankings for children jumping around like yours. Not a very popular opinion here, but that's how it is.

[JustEm]

My 3.5 year old does what yours does on nights she's not tired yet or too tired. During book time she may play quietly in the room but if she's disruptive she has to sit in her bed(we do books in my room) until it's time to join us for prayers.

[Gentlemommy]

Dd3 typically falls asleep around 9:30. I really think she should be going down at least an hour earlier, especially on the no nap days. She gets up between 7:30/8.

Ellie, trust me, this issue has pushed me to the point of considering reversing my stance on not spanking. ;) Certainly the stress of bedtime every night can not be good for them, and it's sure not helpful for me!

[Mrs Mungo]

When my kids were little, I was often on my own. My kids did not sleep with me or fall asleep in my bed or bedroom after 2 years old. I kept a little pillow and blanket in my room. If someone was scared or had a bad dream, then I would comfort them, then they could lie on the floor. Sometimes they would sleep there, but more often they would wind up returning to their own bed.

 

My girls shared a room, but my son was in a room on his own. Here is what my routine sort of looked like:

 

I turned down the lights, turned off the tv, etc for the bedtime routine. Everyone got a bath, we brushed teeth, we sat in the girls' room and I read stories, I turned out the lights, then I sang them a few songs, and we said prayers. I would tuck in middle dd, then put ds to bed in his room. My oldest daughter would come out to the living room with me, and we would read on our own until the other two were asleep, then I would tuck her in.

 

It sounds like maybe you are missing what I used to call the "sleep window." It seemed to me that there was a window when the kids were easy to put to sleep. If I missed it, and they went to bed too late they would be overtired and get a second wind, engage in goofy behavior, etc. have you tried starting the routine earlier?

[Whereneverever]

Can you shift the reading time to during supper? Can she go to bed in your room while the other two stay in their room? I wouldn't let her sleep in your bed if that means your dh can't, but that is just me. I would just put her back in her bed, with no discussion, as many times as it took. I have four kids I put to bed alone because of my DH's work schedule and I need everyone to go to sleep at some point. I don't like CIO but she isn't a baby.

[Whereneverever]

My three year old has a dreamlite he really loves. It stays on for fifteen minutes or something and he's allowed to look at books or race cars in bed quietly until it shuts off. If he gets out or is loud it's lights out right then. Maybe a visual aid like that would help her?

[Gentlemommy]

I like the idea of reading during dinner! Or even right after, or even while they are in the bath...thanks for giving me an out of the box idea!

I would totally put her in her little bed in my room so I could read to the other two, but she gets hysterical. Tonight I sat outside the door and silently out her back in. Over 20 times. Sigh. And she was crying the entire time. I would do this everyday if I knew that she would give up in a few days, but we've been doing this for months! She is stubborn lol.

I don't want her in my bed at the start of the night. If she climbs in later, that's fine, and dh would be in bed too. Right now, he's letting me work this thing out on my own ( per my request, I need to figure out a solution I can maintain when he's gone again) which is why he is in the guest room. As soon as we've figured something out, he'll come back to bed. He is actually so much more patient than I am, he keeps reminding me that she's little, it's our reality right now, and this too shall pass. He's great about all of it, it's me that's frustrated lol.

[Gentlemommy]

I will look into a dreamlite. Does it turn off automatically?

[Whereneverever]

I will look into a dreamlite. Does it turn off automatically?

Yes. Yes it does.

[Whereneverever]

http://www.target.com/p/pillow-pets-dream-lites-dog/-/A-14138224?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=Google_PLA_df&LNM=%7C14138224&CPNG=Lighting&kpid=14138224&LID=PA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=14138224&gclid=CLSPxIaS5rsCFS1gMgodOXkAIQ here's what we have. :)

[momto10blessings]

Reading at night does not work here. I wish it did, but it seems to make the kids less sleepy for some reason. We read plenty during the day.

 

Bed time is potty, pajamas, brush teeth, sip of water, prayers and mom and daddy kiss each kid in their bed and say I love you. Bed time is a serious affair. When it's bedtime you lay in your bed and go to sleep. Older kids (10+) can read, but quietly in their beds. Younger kids stay in their beds and be quiet. If you don't you are disobeying and there will be consequences. Only reason to get up is if you need to go #2 or are sick. There are some exceptions, like if they have to pee really really bad, but they just went so unless they just drank a bunch, they should be fine.

 

Be consistent. They'll make up every excuse in the book, but if you want evening with your dh you need to be clear of what is expected from them.

Dd3 needs more sleep. She will be much happier

[momto10blessings]

I like the idea of reading during dinner! Or even right after, or even while they are in the bath...thanks for giving me an out of the box idea!

I would totally put her in her little bed in my room so I could read to the other two, but she gets hysterical. Tonight I sat outside the door and silently out her back in. Over 20 times. Sigh. And she was crying the entire time. I would do this everyday if I knew that she would give up in a few days, but we've been doing this for months! She is stubborn lol.

I don't want her in my bed at the start of the night. If she climbs in later, that's fine, and dh would be in bed too. Right now, he's letting me work this thing out on my own ( per my request, I need to figure out a solution I can maintain when he's gone again) which is why he is in the guest room. As soon as we've figured something out, he'll come back to bed. He is actually so much more patient than I am, he keeps reminding me that she's little, it's our reality right now, and this too shall pass. He's great about all of it, it's me that's frustrated lol.

Can dad take over bed time for the little one for a few days while he is home? Some times that's all it takes. Have him be firm and maybe she'll get it in a few nights. I hope you find something that works. Alone time with your spouse is precious time.

[Kerileanne99]

Our nighttime routine with my DD4 is very, very routine. She seems to really need this. But first, we started with a sleep timer from Thinkgeek.com. You set it for the times you want, but basically it does this: it looks like a sun/moon. At 7 pm it lights up blue, for bedtime. It is bright enough to read by for 1 hr before it dims...then at 7 am it changes to yellow. This lets her know it is an acceptable time to get out of bed. It works very, very well:)

In fact, she is almost always asleep within minutes of 8 pm and wakes up within minutes of 7 am...that being said? There is no such thing as a lie in!

 

We do dinner, play, bath, then at 7 pm we are in mom's bed for an hour of reading time, then teeth brushing. I tuck her into bed with either the IPod for audio books (turned down low so that she HAS to be quiet to hear it!) or her head lamp for up to 1/2 hour of quiet I dependent reading. Clockwork.

[srs]

The best thing for bedtime that has happened here lately is that DD6 decided that she wanted to go to bed all by herself. She can tell time, and when it is her bedtime, she gets up, says goodnight, and goes on her way to pajamas and bathroom, and lights out. This is my insomniac child, so it is really huge for us that even though she may not fall asleep right away, DH and I are not involved the whole night.

 

Might your older two be ready to do at least some of their own bedtime?

 

As for my youngers, DS does his own teeth and potty (sometimes I help with the teeth so it gets done well), and then he gets the grand Mommy Bedtime: three short stories and then I read my own book in his bed while he falls asleep. Once again, I am not emotionally involved after his stories, so I get a mental break and get to do my own reading, and he gets the security of snuggling.

 

The toddler has taken to nursing to sleep before DS goes to bed, although if she is still awake my husband will take care of her during DS's bedtime. Once a week his work schedule means I do solo bedtime, and it is way more draining getting it done.

 

Good luck! It is a hard age, I think.

[athomeontheprairie]

this is what I would suggest: drop bedtime reading ( at least for a while). if your older to can get ready by themselves great, if not make a list (use pictures if they can't read) what they need to do to get ready for bed. my list has 8 things on it. then for the next two weeks or so, I would let them get ready for bed while I was putting the little one to bed. I would spend those 15 minutes reading her a book in bed, ticking her in, praying, whatever. I would spend time training her to stay in bed quietly. Period. and she's quiet the kids can come in and go to bed, if not the kids can stay in the family room and play/read and I will calmly play her back down and leave. I would put her down as many times as necessary. and quite frankly after the second time I would probably start spanking ( I don't have this problem at home though so I don't actually know what I would do...)

I would spend two weeks or so training her how to go to bed. during those two weeks I would also be training my big kids how to get ready for bed. once my little one understands there's no playing at bedtime, I would bring back the bedtime stories. (though, if you read it supper or lunch time maybe open it this)

AS For night terrors, have you consulted a doctor? if she's waking up that frequently with them, you might consider talking with your pediatrician.

sorry if this is rambling, I'm having problems with my phone...

[Mrs Mungo]

I would seriously consider moving her out of your bed. You are creating a dynamic that is confusing. She wants to be in your bed and for you to be there because that is what she experiences at night. I think it is hard for a 3 y/o to understand the difference between starting out the night there and winding up there later. I would put her to bed earlier, on her own, in her own bed, letting the older kids read in your room for a bit. I would get rid of the little bed. It isn't her room. But, that is just me.

[Joker]

One of my dds had horrible night terrors and trouble sleeping after a move. We moved her toddler bed into our room right next to my side of the bed. Could you, and she, do the routine with the others at bedtime and then hang out a bit extra with her in your room until she was comfortable and sleepy? It only took a little while of doing this before that dd was comfortable in our new home and was a good sleeper again. She just needed a little extra attention after the move.

 

Another option might be to see if the younger two could share the bottom bunk for a while. Mine who had night terrors after our move just needed to be with someone. She was so insecure and upset during that time.

 

I honestly cannot imagine punishing for this behavior after a move since I've seen what my own dd around that age went through.

[PrairieSong]

I didn't read every reply but here's what bedtime used to look like at our house. (Youngest is now 14.) Kids would get baths and brush teeth. We said prayers as a family and then tucked them in. Short and sweet. Babies slept in our room. I always read to toddlers/preschoolers right after lunch, before their afternoon nap. 

 

I would suggest making the bedtime routine shorter and not doing anything that is interesting or stimulating right before bed.

[LibraryLover]

Teletubbies vid in your bed while you read to the older girls?  <shrug That's what I did when dh was away.>  ;)  Bad Mom Award graciously accepted.

[Marie131]

My kids are similar ages - 8.5, 6, 3 and 1.  Dh works nights, so I'm alone for dinner, bath and bed and it can easily become chaos.

 

What we do:

7:00 - bath

7:20 - read aloud w/ baby in her crib playing (book of my choice and only if baby is being cooperative.  If 3 y/o fools around story time is over).  They can read silently until lights out.  If they fool around, lights get turned out early.

7:45 - Lights out.  Bed time is 8, but I got tired of the kids whining about being thirsty, hungry, scared, can't sleep...blah blah blah... that I bumped up their bedtime 15 minutes to allow for their delay tactics.  They hate that :D

 

I also have had a problem of them getting out of bed (especially the oldest one) so if they get out of bed and no one is in grave danger then they lose 1 days worth of using the computer.

 

My 3 older kids are sharing a room at the moment too, however, I start my oldest middle child off by falling asleep in my bed and moving him after he falls asleep as he is the easiest child to move.  We have a twin over double bunk and the 2 middle boys are sharing the double so it doesn't work to have them falling asleep together as they fool around.

 

That's how it works at our house.  For the most part it goes smoothly, but they can become little orangutans as most little boys can be. 

 

I think your biggest issue is your 3 y/o still needs that nap.  I would work on that first and I'll bet your bedtime routine will go a lot more smoothly.

[La Condessa]

My 3 and 4 year old girls will try getting up, jumping, playing, and being wild during our story time, and I have to constantly reinforce "Heads on pillows, feet under blankets". They love to be together at bedtime, too, and my worst punishment for them continuing to get up after my reminders and warnings is to take sister out to finish reading on the couch, while the one who was getting up is in the bedroom alone. They consider this the worst possible punishment ever--I have actually had my dd4 ask if I would spank her or take her new toy away for a week instead, "Because that wouldn't be as severe." If your girls love to be together at bedtime, too, maybe that possibility would be an incentive to get her to quiet down during reading.

 

Also, I've tried out doing bedtime stories a number of different ways, or not at all, and this is what seems to work best for helping mine settle down: I do the little one's picture book with her in my lap, then put them each in bed and turn out the light, and I sit outside the open bedroom door while I read the older one's chapter book. The dark during story time, while I am still present to inforce lying down, seems to make a big difference. I also put in a quiet audiobook for them to listen to before I leave.

 

If anyone knows how to get them to stay in their beds once the door is shut if they're not feeling very sleepy yet, please share!

[kroe1]

I only had one child at home at a time, so my kiddos always fell asleep in the living room and I carried them to bed. But I am really proud of my DDIL who is one of those vigilante types with her kiddos' schedule. At bedtime she asks the kiddos what toy they want to take to bed. Each kiddo gives her no problem at all, just grabs a toy, gets a kiss, and marches off to bed. She does give them a zippy cup of milk about 8:30 or so. She does keep them in separate bedrooms.

[hmvaughan4]

As for night terrors, DS had them when he was overtired. I would at least have a daily rest time, whether she naps or not. Maybe she'll begin napping again. On nights when we anticipated one, we would rouse him an hour after he fell asleep. We didn't completely wake him, but just enough that he would mumble to us when asked questions. This was enough to break the sleep cycle and avoid night terrors.

[Ausmumof3]

Currently, dinner, sometimes a walk as it's summer and daylight saving time. Then bath, teeth, bible story and bed for 7 and 4 yo. Then I feed ds1 in bed till he's asleep. Truthfully if dh isn't here they wait up till he comes home, I send them to bed with books or something. Ds literally will lie awake till midnight waiting for dad then get up at 4am to say goodbye if that's when he leaves. I agree with the suggestions to cut the stories. Bedtime works best here when the routine is short. 3 is the hardest age though, it should get easier. My neighbour who raised six recommends lots of outside playtime to wear them out after the afternoon nap.

[SKL]

Another vote for NOT reading at bedtime.  Or, you choose one nice picture book that all can listen to for a few minutes, and that's it.

 

Consequences are needed for getting out of bed or making excessive noise after bedtime (except for legitimate stuff like potty / night terrors).

 

Personally I don't do night lights etc.  When my kids were 3 it was pitch dark in there and no electronics etc. allowed.  Nothing to stimulate them.  Now at 6/7 they like to have the door a little ajar (which lets in some light), but I will shut it if they aren't quiet and going to sleep shortly after I tuck them in.

 

For the night terrors, I haven't had that problem, but possibly that will get better if bedtime gets more calm and consistent.  When it happens, I'd just go in there ASAP and quiet her down.  Normally other children will just roll over and go back to sleep once they know Mom is resolving the cause of the noise.

[kiwik]

Have you tried to reinstate the afternoon nap. The 3 year old must be seriously overtired. It doesn't worry me much to read to kids who are jumping around as long as they are quietish (my kids are a bit hyper at times) so unless it is really upsetting the older kids I would ignore that. If she really wants to sleep with her sibling you may have to use that as leverage - if she won't stay in bed move her to the spare room for 5 mins. Rinse and repeat for hours at first. Reading during tea helps speed things up when you are by yourself too as does reading to one while the other two are in the bath.

 

You say your middle child is a good sleeper? If she is like my ds6 and goes to sleep as soon as her head touches the pillow I would try moving the older one out so she can get to sleep more easily. If you put her in the bottom bunk you can move her back later.

 

It is exhausting by yourself isn't it. Spanking is illegal here so I can't comment on the effectiveness of that method but I would recommend trying to solve the other issues as the child in question is probably too tired to behave rationally anyway.

 

I forgot. Bath at 5 to 5.30 if it is a bath day. Tea at 5.30 or 6. Story from 6.30 to 7. Bed at 7.15. Ds is asleep by 7.30. Ds4 may be asleep then or still awake at 10 depending how stubborn he is feeling. When he is being really grumpy I put him in my bed then move him later. They can read or draw in bed.

[Mom in High Heels]

Gosh, our bed time is easy!  

 

6:15/6:30-Han Solo (2) gets a bath (Indy now gives him a bath, and they have a great time!)

 

6:45ish-James Bond or I get Han Solo out, dry him, brush his teeth (he has to brush first, then we finish), put on lotion and pi's, then give him a cup of rice milk.  He plays for a few minutes while he drinks his milk.  When he's done, we go to his room and do "squishies" (I hold Han Solo, Indy and JB wrap their arms around us and shake, while we all make a silly sound).  Indy leaves (after Han Solo gives him a hug and a kiss and tells him to "Go take a shower!"), then JB and I do "mommy daddy squishies."  HS gives JB a hug and kiss, and tells him to "Go a work, Daddy!" (we're not sure why), then he and I sit in the chair for a few minutes, while I sing whatever he asks for from the Imagination Movers (I know all their songs now!), always followed by the "Night-Night Song."  After that, I put him in bed, cover him up, hand him lovie, tell him good night and shut the door.  He's in bed around 7:30/7:45 and sleeps until 8/:30am.  Easy.

 

We did the same thing with Indy, except then I had to sing songs from the Wiggles and now it's the Imagination Movers.  :)

[Rosie_0801]

Uh, at my house we watch a movie or I read aloud until they flake out. 

[Mrs Mungo]

My neighbour who raised six recommends lots of outside playtime to wear them out after the afternoon nap.

Good point. Everyone sleeps better when they get fresh air and exercise every day, IMO.

[Ausmumof3]

Just wanted to add that we thought my ds was having night terrors at that age, but turns out it was leg cramps, he was just so tired he couldn't find the words to let us know. Now he just needs a hot water bottle and he's fine. I try to make sure he had plenty of almonds for the magnesium too.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

My oldest daughter had night terrors from age 2-3 or so, and it was horrible.  Impossible to rouse her, just had to sit through it with her.  :grouphug:

 

Our routine looks like this.  After dinner, the 2yo reads a book with daddy on the couch, then I get her teeth brushed, potty, diaper, jammies, and sleep sack and put her in her bed in her room, which she shares with her sister.  She is tucked in by about 7 or 7:15 at the latest.  While I am doing this, big kids get their jammies on, and daddy does a French lesson and reads to dd 4.5yo.  ds 6.5yo plays lego in his room or listens to an audio book.  When I'm done with 2yo, he and I will sometimes play a card game.  Then, I take dd 4.5yo and we brush teeth, potty, drink of water, and I tuck her in by about 7:30-7:45.  Often times 2yo is not asleep yet, so I give her another kiss and pass around warnings about getting out of bed and losing their night light and cracked door privileges (first rule breaking, I take out night light.  Second rule breaking, the door is firmly shut).  In the mean time, daddy is doing French lesson and reading a book with ds.  Finally, when ds is done with daddy, he brushes teeth, tells me good night, and then usually has another half hour in his room of lego and audio book.  Lights out for him around 8:30 or so. 

 

Just based on your brief post, it sounds like you are making a lot of threats without much consistency/follow-through.  My trouble-maker kid (dd 4.5yo, same one who had night terrors) must have absolute consistency in rule/consequences at all times at bedtime, or she will immediately derail and test limits for another week.  Her rules are:  No bothering baby (even if baby is trying to talk her into coming to her), no touching the door (to open it wider), no coming out of her room to go potty unless all the lights in the house are off and everyone is asleep (otherwise she "has to" pee every five minutes all evening long).  Consequences are:  loss of night light, followed by door firmly shut, followed by, if necessary, removal of favorite stuffed animal.  We've never gotten to the third level.  :-) 

 

All of the kids are welcome to come to our room in the night if they are scared.  If it's once in a while, they can even sleep in our bed.  If its two nights in a row, they get escorted back to bed after they are calm. 

 

Just my opinion... I hope you find a solution quickly!

 

Oh, when DH works late, then I do the whole routine by combining the big kids for a read-aloud on my bed after tucking baby in, then I tuck in 4.5yo, then 6.5yo does his thing until I come and turn his audio book and light off. 

 

 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I wanted to add that I figured out the rule/follow-through importance thing after spending a weekend doing nothing but watching back episodes of Super Nanny on the internet.  After you've watched her put the EXACT SAME SYSTEM into place 12 episodes in a row (and watched other parents survive the screaming misery phase), you realize you don't really need super nanny to do it yourself in your own home.  :-)  No joke, I really did watch that many Super Nanny episodes in a row... 

[srs]

Joining in on the mom of the year comments...My older DD has always had trouble sleeping, and I suspect her cerebral palsy plays a role (a different brain is just different, sometimes), but before she was diagnosed and I was exhausted and desperate, we had luck with her watching a movie until she fell asleep as a toddler, and then at four years old she slept on the couch for a year. My philosophy evolved to "you don't have to sleep, but you must try and I must not be involved." Because by the end of the day, especially with a special needs kid, I need the mental break more than anything.

[AmandaVT]

The 3 year old sounds overtired. Do they all have to have the same bedtimes? You mentioned 8pm and dreading the next 1 1/2 - does that mean bedtime is 930? Or they're usually asleep by 930 with an 8pm bedtime? 

 

We had been noticing some less than great behavior with DS recently and realized after a week or so that he was overtired because his bedtime had gotten pushed a little later - holiday stuff. He was going to bed closer to 8 and falling asleep by 830 and we realized it was just too late. So we're back to PJ's on, teeth brushed and in bed by 715, we read and he's typically asleep by 8. Back talk is gone, bad attitude is also gone. It's nice. 

 

He dropped his nap really young too and we started doing quiet time for an hour and a half every day. He could play, read books, at 3 he had the Tag reading system which he loved and would play with that a bunch. I"d put on music for him. Now that he's older, he'll usually make a lego during that time. But he still needs it and requests it almost every day. So maybe you could start a quiet time with your youngest and give her some down time? Then maybe an earlier bedtime for her. Or stagger the three kids. I'd probably think 7 for the 3 year old, and 8 for the other 2?

 

Good luck - sleep struggles are the worst!

[athomeontheprairie]

I honestly cannot imagine punishing for this behavior after a move since I've seen what my own dd around that age went through.

It is not a punishment (with a negative connotation) to train your child to sleep. Spanking can be a form of discipline (with a positive) used to correct and teach a child. It should not be used in anger or frustration, but can be very effective when used firmly with love

[Gentlemommy]

Thank you all for the replies. I really appreciate all of the suggestions, stories, and examples of bedtime routines. I will definitely be cutting the longer chapter book readings out for a time. I think they are the start of the downward spiral lol. Tonight my plan is-

Try to get dd3 to nap during the day, even just half hour.

At 7, bath, Jammie's, teeth and hair brushed.

Send big dd's downstairs to read or play quietly.

Read a short picture book to dd3.

Sit next to her bed and rub her back for a few minutes, but leave before she falls asleep (I want her to eventually fall asleep on her own, so I don't want to stay until she is fully asleep).

Kiss, tell her to stay in bed, and walk out.

Sit on the outside of her door, ready to escort her back to bed.

STAY CALM AND BORING.

Dh is home for a few more days, so he can help entertain the bigger girls while I sort this out.

The idea is that after a week or so, she will stay in her bed?...

 

Again, I really do appreciate all of the insight! As for those who gave themselves the bad mom award, not a chance! You are doing what works, and it's much better than the stress filled yelling we've been having! If I thought dd3 would pass out with a movie, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

As some of you pointed out, I am having trouble with consequences. We are (normally, this has pushed my limits) a gentle parenting household, we do not spank, we don't even really do time outs, we have a 'break' spot, where they can go to calm down, but it's not negative. And to be honest, it's worked well for my older two. They are sweet, cooperative, and generally a joy to parent. Dd3 is throwing me for a loop!!! I know so much of it is her being tired.

The problem with bedtime is that I do feel there are no consequences for her. Telling her ill close the door doesn't work, she will just keep getting up and opening it, delaying bedtime. Taking away a toy won't work, she isn't attached to anything in particular. Telling her I'll remove her from the room and she won't get a story doesn't work, she feels like she gets out of bedtime! She doesn't want to be in there anyway, so removing her is a good thing in her eyes.

She is a ... Different child. We are dealing with things and intensity levels that we have not had with the bigger two. Like I said, she is stubborn to a fault. Whereas it may have taken my older two two or three corrections to stop a behavior, it will take her 20 or more! She continues to do XYZ over and over again, despite our letting her know it is not acceptable. As for spanking, I am opposed to it morally. I definitely wouldn't want to start anything physical with this child, because I can see it escalating so quickly, and she'd be getting spanked several times a day. :( So alternatives for spanking are much appreciated. I take no issue with someone choosing to do it, I just don't think *I* could be calm enough. Thanks again!!!

[Tohru]

If she's jumping around at bedtime and having night terrors, she is OVERtired.  According to tons of reserach, children between 2yo and 5yo actuallly need about 12-14 hours of sleep per day.  Check out the No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers or Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child.

 

Have you tried putting her to bed EARLIER, like even as early as 6pm?  She might complain the first few nights, however you could lay down with her and let your other children play quietly and then put them to bed at 8pm.

 

Our routine for a 2yo and 6yo that share a bedroom:

5:30 Dinner

6:30 Bath, brush teeth, then a story (we start at 6:00 if they are tired)

7:00 Lights out (or 6:30 if they had a 6pm bath)

They are generally both asleep by 7:15.

 

They wake up naturally between 7:00 and 7:30.

 

BTW: We don't spank either.  I think a child that is so tired that they are jumping around actually needs to be held and cooed rather than punished.

 

 

 

 

 

[waa510]

I agree that 9:30 is way too late for a non-napping 3 yr old. My kiddos only go to bed that late once in a very blue moon for special occasions/holidays.

 

When my kids were little and we had trouble with them getting outta bed a billion times, we used a child safe doorknob lock. I'll probably get flamed for suggesting using one, but it really helped them give up the fight and settle down to bed.

[LibraryLover]

Oh, I don't mean pass out to a short vid, just one as a diversion while you read to the older girls. Then go in and read to her.

 

Now, if she is overtired, I agree with lots of running around outside and an earlier bedtime.

[minuway]

I would try reintroducing nap time for the 3 year old - she sounds like maybe she's overtired and that might causing her to be nutso - that's at least how my kids act when they haven't had their nap/quiet time for a few days for whatever reasons. 

 

Do you allow them to have a little light (I have these from ikea)to look at books? I let even my little ones do this once they are in bed. As long as they are quiet and calm, the small light can stay on and they can look through picture books until they fall asleep. If they are crazy and jumping around, the light goes off. I also have had issues with all of mine having nightmares and wanting to sleep in my bed. I keep a sleeping bag at the foot of my bed and have an open door policy that once they go to sleep in their own bed, they may come get in the sleeping bag at any time in the night that they want. They all eventually grow out of needing it. But mine have never had what I would call night terrors, so not sure if that would be as helpful. :(

 

In our house we start the bedtime routine an hour before bed - around 7 pm - assuming they don't have to take bath, if they have to do that we add another hour, since there are four of them and they take forever. They brush teeth and get jammies on, then with whatever remaining time we read. I'm usually alone too, since dh works late a lot.  Then its into bed, and they can read with their little lights on until they fall asleep, as long as they are in bed and quiet. Often time he comes home right as they are getting into bed, so he will chat with them a while when they first get into bed. I had to make the rule that they stay in bed when he got home since I would feel like everything would fall apart when they heard the door jangle at 8:15 and daddy was home! Arrgg!

 

For reference mine are 3, 5, 7, and 9. They all still have a 2 hour quiet time/ nap time in the afternoon as well.

[Gentlemommy]

I got dd to nap today!!! I laid with her and rubbed her back and sang to her. She slept for 45 minutes, which is longer than normal. I explained my new plan of action to dh, he thinks it sounds good, so he will read to the big girls downstairs while I deal with little dd upstairs for now. When he's gone, I'll have to tell the two big girls to just wait for me. Maybe I'll lend them my iPad and let them watch an educational video...Bill Nye? Or something like that.

I also found a dreamlite toy that has a 15 minute timer. I was not wanting to spend $30 on one, but I looked at Ross for something else and they had one! For $12.99, which is much better. I haven't shown her yet, I'll show her tonight.

[momto10blessings]

Personally I don't do night lights etc. When my kids were 3 it was pitch dark in there and no electronics etc. allowed. Nothing to stimulate them. Now at 6/7 they like to have the door a little ajar (which lets in some light), but I will shut it if they aren't quiet and going to sleep shortly after I tuck them in.

.

I totally agree with this. And don't give in for even one night or it'll become a big issue. Going through this now with my 4 yr old. Dh let hey sleep with her new lamp on when I was in the hospital and now if she wakes up in a dark room she gets scared after sleeping in the dark for 4 years

[momto10blessings]

I got dd to nap today!!! I laid with her and rubbed her back and sang to her. She slept for 45 minutes, which is longer than normal. I explained my new plan of action to dh, he thinks it sounds good, so he will read to the big girls downstairs while I deal with little dd upstairs for now. When he's gone, I'll have to tell the two big girls to just wait for me. Maybe I'll lend them my iPad and let them watch an educational video...Bill Nye? Or something like that.

I also found a dreamlite toy that has a 15 minute timer. I was not wanting to spend $30 on one, but I looked at Ross for something else and they had one! For $12.99, which is much better. I haven't shown her yet, I'll show her tonight.

Progress! Hang in there, mama!

[minuway]

Oh, I just thought of the book _The No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers_ - I haven't read it (sorry, this sounds like a lame recommendation I know), but I used her book for babies and really appreciated it. It might have some more good ideas for your 3 year old. I know I've seen it at my library - it might be worth checking out and flipping through.

[Gentlemommy]

I would prefer no light, but since she's slept with my older two, and they have one, she's gotten used to it. Dd8 is usually allowed to read on her kindle with a book light, plus they have a small night light in their room. In my room, I leave the bathroom closet light on, and it's much darker in my room, but a couple of times dh went in to her when she was upset and he turned the bigger bathroom light on, so again, now she's used to that.

[coffeegal]

For my 3 & 4 yos:

 

6:00 Bath, teeth, pajamas, short story (sometimes read) tuck in bed, water, tuck in bed, turn on my computer, tuck in bed, turn off the light, tuck in bed, tell a fairy tale in the dark, sing a song, water, bathroom, tuck in bed, water, they settle down, and I sit in dark room working on my computer while they go to sleep. They're usually asleep by 7pm.

 

I've found they go to sleep and sleep better if I sit in the room working on my computer. I guess the light shining off my face is more comforting than my singing songs. It also usually takes about an hour to work through the bedtime routine including them jumping around working the last of their energy out of their system. Life if much easier if I plan to spend an hour working through the bedtime routine.

 

Good luck with your new plan of action!

[mamajudy]

When our kids were little, we used to put on some soft music (Mozart) when they went to bed. Not only was it soothing, it also helped to drown out any conversation going on elsewhere in the house, so they didn't feel like they were missing something exciting. Bedtime was never a hassle for us. We snuggled and read to them, prayed with them, kissed them good night, and tucked them in with a favorite stuffed toy, doll, or blanket. They went to bed around 8:00 and that was that. Maybe we were just lucky. My mom used to comment when she would visit how easily they went to bed.