Halcyon Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/10/my-daughters-homework-is-killing-me/309514/ Thoughts? This is a big reason why we homeschool,personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yeah, I read that. Find the distance between Sacramento and ALL OTHER state capitals for a MATH assignment? No wonder my students think that math homework is an exercise in tedium and has nothing to do with learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitten18 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Great article. I agree, it's a big part of why I keep the kids at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Another Jen Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 This is why we pulled our older boys out of school years ago. They had homework that took hours and then we had to get them up early to study again before the bus at 6:45am. I figured we could put in the same amount of time at a more sane hour of the day. I felt like I was doing all the teaching anyway. I was right and the next 3 kids never went to school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 My daughter has between 3 and 4 hours a night, on average. *sigh* Seventh grade. I have to wrestle the laptop and papers from her hands around 11 pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 "Memorize, don't rationalize" is hardly the philosophy of learning and life I would want my 8th grader to embrace. Very sad situation we find ourselves in. And don't even get me started on the continuing class divide represented and perpetuated by these "public" charter schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilly Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I live in an area with one of the best high schools in the country. The kids who go there are always accepted into the top colleges, but they are busy from morning to night. I see them go to school, I see them come home, but I never see them the rest of the day or night. They are all doing homework, hours and hours of homework. It makes me so sad, and it reinforces my belief that homeschool is the best choice for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 "Memorize, don't rationalize" is hardly the philosophy of learning and life I would want my 8th grader to embrace. Very sad situation we find ourselves in.This. OTOH- I was a little disturbed that the parent was taking this opportunity to ice his homework rant cake with his attempt to normalize casual marijuana use. :/ What is the logic there? Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yeah, while I'm not personally bothered by the dad admitting to occasional recreational pot use, I thought it detracted from the article because many readers will be bothered by it. I struggle when I think about this for our future. I endured this level of work in high school (apparently my school was ahead of the curve) and thought it was pretty normal at the time. Now, when I look back on that whole classic book a week, researched essay every other week, piles of math, tests and tests, etc. lifestyle, I am a bit appalled. In some ways, it helped me thrive because I was constantly engaged in academic work. In other ways, it really messed me up because there was no way to do it all, even staying up half the night, so you would just strategically dump whole things and not bother with them or bs your way through books you didn't have time to read, strategically do some things and not others. And it felt like that was expected and normal as well. Not what I want at all for my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 My oldest had 1+ hours of homework a night in *kindergarten*. I can hardly imagine what the older grades have to go through. Even in high school, I didn't have that much homework and I had no problem with my ACT and getting into any school I applied to. What's the real purpose of that much homework? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErinE Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Begin rant... This is a big reason why I was drawn to homeschooling. We're turning a nation of drones, people who won't question authority, because they are so conditioned to just do the work. "Memorization, not rationalization." Why wouldn't this dad pull his child out of school the second he heard this come out of his child's mouth because it's quite obvious she's not learning critical thinking skills. He writes in a joking, incredulous manner. As her parent, I would be appalled. It's starts early, so early. In NYC, friends were worried about getting into the "best" preschool, because otherwise, ye gods, the child would miss out on early childhood development skills, early socialization, and then the child wouldn't go to the best elementary, middle, high school, etc. Test the three year old, interview the parent, judge social interaction. If you don't have the "right" child, perhaps it's time to find a school that's a better fit. When I would talk to other parents about the craziness, they would just shrug and say that's how it works. I ran from this philosophy. I saw this when DS was in elementary. In second grade, he had one hour of homework after being at school all day. I worked in the school with all level of teachers; I saw it only got worse as the kids got older. Parents would gripe and complain about their child's workload, but wouldn't dare question the school about it. "Student" projects were taken over by parents so often that my son would be embarrassed by his work in class because it was obviously his work, not mine. Insert Kid A into Slot B and keep the child in that box for the rest of his life. Go to school, read the books, do the work, get some sleep, do it all over again the next day. All for the sake of to go to the "best" colleges, get the "best" jobs, and work for the "best" companies. When does it end? Stressed out, burned out, searching for meaning as an adult and not finding it, because the child never had a chance to explore, play, and think on his own. A little Pink Floyd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpxd3pZAVHI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen in CO Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I'll add a couple of notes from a ps side. Not all schools are like that. My dd's school has a 20 minute per night rule for each class for middle school. Her teachers coordinate the work so that if one class has a larger assignment or test, the others don't. In over a year, I've never seen a pointless assignment. Her homework is intended to directly support the classroom instruction. It doesn't substitute for it. I think homework is essential in public school so that the kids can have a chance to do work outside of the class. It helps to cement the lessons taught during the day and provides the content for the next day's discussions. When my kids were all homeschooled, I was anti-homework because I thought only about it detracting from family time. Once I saw homework used thoughtfully, I gradually changed my mind. I would be terribly unhappy if my dd had 4-6 hours of homework per day but under two hours, not counting instrument practice, seems to be a good amount for her right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fishermind Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Excellent article. Might give it a go myself. Although my daughters only 6 years old it might be even more enlightening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 This was part of our decision to homeschool. My nephews were spending 1-2 hours on homework in K-2 in addition to the 5-6 hours at school. All the homeschoolers I talked to were spending 1-2 hours total. Now in 3-5 grade they were\are spending 3 hours a night on homework. We spend about 4 hours total. The time savings is a huge issue for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alef Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 A friend told me she could never homeschool because she has enough trouble supervising her kids' homework. Yeah, I wouldn't want to homeschool either if it was just like supervising homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 My boys don't have nearly that amount of homework. Hobbes has about an hour per night - weekends are heavier though, with maybe five hours for the weekend. Calvin does 90 minutes each night and eight hours at weekends. I suspect he should be doing more, but it's a rhythm that seems to be working at present. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Shrug. The girl's philosphy of memorization means she isn't learning in class or at home, so of course her hw is taking her longer than it should. She falls behind further each year and it sounds like she is at the point where she needs to drop out of honors English and back to reg ed. The math memorizers usually ditch after R. I. Geo. The odd thing is that she doesn't get much done at school. I take it there is no study hall in her schedule. Why she has a load of R. Earth Science is odd too -- that class has a lab, where most problem sets are done. Very little studying is required if the teacher is decent. The Spanish is insane here in NY...it's immersion but spelling counts so yes, there is a lot of memorization. Sorry, what do R. I. and R. mean? I'm curious why you say she should drop honors English. I can't even find in the article where it mentions she is in honors English. It just talks about her reading Angela's Ashes through the week. Is there an indication that she is struggling with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I have a 13 year old in public middle school and in the Honors Program. She has about 1.5-2 hours of homework each night. She's home from school by 2:15 each day (1:15 on Wednesdays), so she is rarely doing any work past 8pm. She's involved in a few extracurricular activities at school, has dance classes during the week, and has to have so many volunteer hours for school, but we still get it all done by 8pm and that includes the whole family having dinner together every single night. She usually has about 3 hours of work on the weekends that gets done after church on Sundays. Friday night is usually always a sleepover and we spend Saturdays out and about together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It's not just the quantity of homework that I find appalling, it's the thoughtlessness of it - the descriptions of her assignements in the CA charter in particular. We ran into the same kind of issue, which directly precipitated our choice to start homeschooling in 4th grade. Long story short, my dd was being required to do and turn in many hours of math homework she had not done. Now, getting behind was her/our fault - she was in a play with long evening practices, then had a health emergency which led to her missing two weeks of school. But throughout the quarter, she took every single math test and got above 90% on each test. When I finally realized how far behind she was in her homework assignments, I made her spend one entire Saturday - something like 6 hours - working on her back work. She hardly made a dent. So I went to the teacher and tried to make the logical argument that since she had taken and gotten As on all the tests, wasn't that sufficient proof that she had mastered the material? The teacher replied that each assignment not turned in would be scored as a zero and her quarter grade would be averaged accordingly. I said, "Let me get this straight: You would be ok with giving a failing grade to a student who has gotten As on all her tests?" She repeated that if the work wasn't turned in, it would be scored as zero. People, this was 4th grade! My kid was 8 years old. I wasn't about to let a failing grade in 4th grade math - under these circumstances - lead my daughter to decide she was bad at math and close the door on potential interest in math and science. We started homeschooling the next week. The parallels to the article - pointless, looooongggg math assignments, inflexible application of one-size-fits-all rules, etc. just brought it all right back home to me. Nice to feel your choice was the right one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Wow, seems all most like the kid has poor time management and I say that as a kid who was horrible (and still is pretty bad) at time management. It seems like it would be more reasonable to sit back and try to develop a more reasonable study schedule and study habits. She isn't getting a whole ton of Algebra/math homework. For the procedural/drill type of homework problem seemed to be getting I would expect about 60-90 seconds per problem then a 3-5 minute check back period if she knows what she is doing and, after having tutored college students in all levels of math, I absolutely agree with knocking down the math grade for not formatting it correctly. It is so frustrating to have to search in a sea of scrawl and chicken scratch math work to follow the steps and evaluate the answer. Some kids (and adults, apparently) have to be forced to show their work and record their steps in a legible and logical fashion so having a policy that requires a certain type of format just makes things easier on the teacher and a lot of students too, knowing that they have to write 3 lines of work and it has to be neat helps train them to work neatly. I doubt that this was the first time that his daughter had seen that format requirement and if she chose not to/ignored that requirement, than she deserves to be penalized. For the science, there are more efficient and effective ways to learn the material/subject than "Memorize not rationalize" and its sad that the dad was unaware of his daughters philosophy until that night. If the kid feels comfortable enough to share that sort of idea/thought with the parent, then the parent should have known about it a long time ago. Personally, I'd have NEVER shared such a sentiment with my parents, ever. I still wouldn't say something like that to my parents, even if I thought it. That type of defeatist, lackadaisical attitude just isn't tolerated well in my family. If the girl is reading on grade level, shouldn't she be able to read that book without too much ado/fanfare. It isn't a difficult book and I was reading ~80 pages a day of books when I was ~11 or 12. I expect a 13 - 14 yo in a selective school to be able to do the same I am not justifying insane amounts of homework, but honestly, just how much of that time being spent is her working focused and diligently and how much of it is her waffling about and daydreaming? How many kids in her school/grade are having the same experience? I don't doubt that its a lot, but I also wonder how many kids are wasting time/vs working full steam ahead during "homework time". Oh, but I have no tolerance for inane work. Measuring the distance to every state capital? Please! Kid, do 5 capitals and call it a day. Make it 5 capitals you don't know and keep moving on with life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2bee Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Also, the dad casual attitude to his current drug use is interesting to note. I wonder what his daughter will think of that when she reads/hears about it? His bosses should also think twice about letting this guy write for them and keeping him on the payroll. As far as I know, marijuana isn't actually socially and legally acceptable in the professional world and I know many people who have lost their jobs to drug use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Also, the dad casual attitude to his current drug use is interesting to note. I wonder what his daughter will think of that when she reads/hears about it? His bosses should also think twice about letting this guy write for them and keeping him on the payroll. As far as I know, marijuana isn't actually socially and legally acceptable in the professional world and I know many people who have lost their jobs to drug use. I know lots of people who no longer consider smoking marijuana "drug use". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Interesting article. I'm wondering why the daughter doesn't start doing her homework until 8 p.m.? (or correct me if I'm wrong -- I tried to find a reference to her starting in the afternoon, but couldn't find one, only the reference to 8 p.m.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrysalis Academy Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I know lots of people who no longer consider smoking marijuana "drug use". :lol: My dh went on a hunting trip to the Trinity national forest this weekend and he said that everywhere they went, they saw (and smelled) pot growing. Including in the Forest Service office . . . it's like the "state" industry up there in Far No Cal! But yes, I am guessing that deciding to write about his casual mj use will probably turn off readers who would actually agree with his points on homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmos Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 R. I. Algebra is Regent's Integrated Algebra, and R. Earth Science is Regent's Earth Science...these two courses are reg. ed. ninth grade courses, accelerated eighth grade courses in many schools. I suspect she is in honors English because she is accelerated in math and science, and those students are usually placed in honors English and Social Studies too.From the article, the author thinks the 79 pages of the lit assignment to be two hours, too much. If that's true for the student, not the author, that's an indication that the student is in over her head..this book is roughly on the sixth grade level, although it deals with mature themes. If it's taking the student 2 hrs, her reading speed is not on the level that an on or above grade level 8th grader is expected to have. The assignment of finding three quotes and writing 1-2 sentences of explanation for each is old hat -- that kind of hw is assigned in reg. ed. sixth grade and shouldn't be a strain right now for any on or above grade level student - should not take more than 15 minutes ime. From what was listed, I would expect the standard 10 min X grade level to be enough homework and study time if all her teachers are competent. She's exceeding that, which means she is either struggling academically, or she hasn't learn to efficiently use her time or she doesn't know how to study. Thanks for explaining. I thought it was the dad struggling with the reading (and falling asleep LOL), but I understand your reasoning now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think the fact that the father, a professional writer who reads for a living, had trouble with the amount of reading (ETA - alongside all the other work, that is) too is a call to reconsider what we consider should be "old hat" for middle schoolers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It also saddens me that there will always be "work 'em til they drop to cull out the weak" thinkers about children's work loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 What does this girl do until 8pm? She probably gets out of school by 2:30 or 3pm. What does she do from 3-8pm? I agree that some of her school work might be pointless, but if she started it right after school, she'd get it all done in time to relax for an hour or two and then still get to bed on time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 If Esmee masters the material covered in her classes, she will emerge as a well-rounded, socially aware citizen, a serious reader with good reasoning capabilities and a decent knowledge of the universe she lives in. What more can I ask of her school? But are these many hours of homework the only way to achieve this metamorphosis of child into virtuous citizen? According to my daughter’s teachers, principals, and administrators, the answer is an emphatic yes. Certainly, they have told me, all the homework does no harm. Therein lives the crux of the issue from my perspective. Cram them full of superficial knowledge of umpteen subjects and that is the modern definition of being well-educated. I can and do require a lot more from my children's school. Fwiw, I don't think that the problem is simply with his dd in terms of memorize, not rationalize. My ds's friends that attend a governor's school, an IB school, and a Center for Humanities magnet school. All of them have homework which last from about 5-6 until 12-1 am every night. When you have conversations with them it is very apparent that they don't understand or care at all about what they are learning, but they can recite pages of facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 What does this girl do until 8pm? She probably gets out of school by 2:30 or 3pm. What does she do from 3-8pm? I agree that some of her school work might be pointless, but if she started it right after school, she'd get it all done in time to relax for an hour or two and then still get to bed on time. I would assume she is like the typical American top tier driven future applicant. She is probably involved in athletics, clubs, and lessons from after school until 5. The pressure is on elite high schoolers to develop their community involvement resume. They don't get to be captain or president by not being involved in middle school. Get home from school, eat dinner, shower.....it could easily be 7ish by that time. Just hypothesizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 My ds's friends that attend a governor's school, an IB school, and a Center for Humanities magnet school. All of them have homework which last from about 5-6 until 12-1 am every night. When you have conversations with them it is very apparent that they don't understand or care at all about what they are learning, but they can recite pages of facts. I find that very sad. It's not my experience from talking to the pupils at my boys' IB school. They are remarkably thoughtful, I think. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I find that very sad. It's not my experience from talking to the pupils at my boys' IB school. They are remarkably thoughtful, I think. L I wonder how much of it is the home country's influence, how much of it is individual school, and how much of it is individual students. I have nieces in a pre-IB middle school that had homework that they had to do every day during the summer. (And not just reading.). I personally don't get it at all. Seriously. Eta: I think the lack of interest and the reduction to memorizing is bc there is just so much info that they want memorized. My nieces are completely apathetic toward school. One young man we know is completely oppressed by homework and has no life between homework and tutors (bc he can't keep up with the load.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I wonder how much of it is the home country's influence, how much of it is individual school, and how much of it is individual students. I have nieces in a pre-IB middle school that had homework that they had to do every day during the summer. (And not just reading.). I personally don't get it at all. Seriously. Eta: I think the lack of interest and the reduction to memorizing is bc there is just so much info that they want memorized. My nieces are completely apathetic toward school. One young man we know is completely oppressed by homework and has no life between homework and tutors (bc he can't keep up with the load.) I wonder too. Calvin has very little busy-work homework. Almost everything is a thought-provoking task. He will have to revise (review) a lot of facts at the end of this year before he takes his final exams, but for most of the course it's been mostly about thinking through the material. And the final exams are almost all essay-based, not box-checking. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindyz Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 In regards to the marijuana usage - what would be the difference if he said he stopped and had a glass of wine? It is now legal in some states, he's an adult, and what he had is most likely equal to that of a glass of wine. I'm so glad we homeschool so that my son will not have to go through this. Of course, I think it's ok to have to work hard and even sometimes to work late to get your work done. However, much of it seemed like work that would soon be forgotten as it wasn't very meaningful and was mostly memorization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I would assume she is like the typical American top tier driven future applicant. She is probably involved in athletics, clubs, and lessons from after school until 5. The pressure is on elite high schoolers to develop their community involvement resume. They don't get to be captain or president by not being involved in middle school. Get home from school, eat dinner, shower.....it could easily be 7ish by that time. Just hypothesizing. I think it unlikely that a double income family in New York (especially an affluent rather than independently wealthy one) is getting home at 5pm. It's quite likely that mom and dad are working until later in the evening and activities are designed to match that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Also, the dad casual attitude to his current drug use is interesting to note. I wonder what his daughter will think of that when she reads/hears about it? His bosses should also think twice about letting this guy write for them and keeping him on the payroll. As far as I know, marijuana isn't actually socially and legally acceptable in the professional world and I know many people who have lost their jobs to drug use. Please. He is a writer (a very well employed writer at that) living in NYC. He's not going to lose his job nor is his professional reputation at risk. Do you seriously think he would have included it in the article or that it would have been printed if it would? It's clear that he is a casual, very intermittent user. He included it for the comparison to his own childhood. Was it necessary? No. But risky to his job or shocking? No. I am not a smoker, having come of age as a sharply straight edge punk but let's not forget the world we live in. He referenced taking a few drags of a joint while out on a Friday night. Not doing meth in the middle of his day while he is on deadline or wasting his co-op payment on coke. A little perspective goes a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think it unlikely that a double income family in New York (especially an affluent rather than independently wealthy one) is getting home at 5pm. It's quite likely that mom and dad are working until later in the evening and activities are designed to match that. Yeah. I agree. I was thinking more in terms of being in activities until at least 5 and adding in travel time, etc. but it could just as easily be later. Everything about the article from the attitude of accepting the dictates of the school as their only option, to the marijuana, screams they live in a completely different world than I do. (Discussing homework load that affects MY child as bullying and making someone feel threatened??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmmetler Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 FWIW, the reviews on Amazon list the Earth Science text normally being used at the college level, making it likely to be a pretty tough row to hoe for most 8th graders (or, apparently, their fathers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 FWIW, the reviews on Amazon list the Earth Science text normally being used at the college level, making it likely to be a pretty tough row to hoe for most 8th graders (or, apparently, their fathers). I would suspect that there are multiple levels just like Campbell/Reece bio. I did a quick google and found multiple 9th grade classes using a text by the same title. Here is one: http://www.spa.edu/data/files/Gallery/Handouts/expectationsrequirements1112.docx I doubt that many schools are using a college text for middle school?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halcyon Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Well, as a former NYC resident myself, I can attest that most kids are involved in afterschool activities til around 6 or so. Sometimes later. What I found sad is that although he protests the homework, his younger daughter applied, and will attend, the same school. It's as though on some level he's showing off ("there is SO MUCH HOMEWORK at this school that my daughter doesnt get to bed until midnight and even I can't keep up, and I have to FORCE her to go to sleep but sometimes she sets her alarm for 1 am to do MORE WORK, it's just TOO AWFUL....and how much homework does YOUR kid have?" Again, having lived there, I can assure you that the culture of vanity complaining is alive and well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenbrdsly Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 All of this makes me think of the doc "Race to Nowhere". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpyTheFrog Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I think it unlikely that a double income family in New York (especially an affluent rather than independently wealthy one) is getting home at 5pm. It's quite likely that mom and dad are working until later in the evening and activities are designed to match that. This would make more sense for elementary school. However, 13 year old's are old enough to stay home alone after school and do their work. I missed the part about where he said he's going to sign up his younger child for this school. Why complain then? In NYC there must be good schools that have more reasonable work loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I didn't read the whole thing, but on Monday night, the homework was 11 simple algebra problems, read 80 pages of Angela's Ashes, and study for an Earth Science test. Perhaps the reason this works takes 4+ hours for the student to do is that she is multi-tasking, on facebook and text messaging. The Dad claims it took him 30 minutes to read 16 pages of the book. Really? That's a good book, but it isn't War and Peace. I bet I could do the math in 30 minutes tops, the reading is easily less than an hour, and the studying? Dunno, but probably less than 30 minutes. If this is taking 4+ hours, something else is going on. I'm not in favor of busy-work homework, but this doesn't seem that bad to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HejKatt Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Blast from the past.. I remember this article from last year: Some Singaporean parents hire tutors to do their children's homework http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120304-331544.html It looks like the US is emulating the Asian rather than the Finnish model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Hands up everyone with teens who make maximal use of their time, especially at the end of a long day? Whose teens speed eagerly through their algebra problems (even during their regular math lesson)? Whose teens easily and quickly shift from one subject to another and maintain deep focus? You're lucky. :p And hands up those who don't. Sheesh. I'd be happy to have a bit of change for every time someone here offered the advice, "Oh, it's just hormones... they'll get their mind back in about five years," when a parent here is expressing frustration with their teens' work habits. FWIW, I am not a fast reader. It would take me at least an hour to read 80 pages of Angela's Ashes (yes, I've read it), perhaps a bit more if I were also considering how to complete an assignment based on my reading. Are we expecting her to read Tarbuck's through once and retain anything? It's actually a pretty good text, but you still have to *think* your way through much of it. Her workload sounds excessive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Therein lives the crux of the issue from my perspective. Cram them full of superficial knowledge of umpteen subjects and that is the modern definition of being well-educated. I can and do require a lot more from my children's school. Fwiw, I don't think that the problem is simply with his dd in terms of memorize, not rationalize. My ds's friends that attend a governor's school, an IB school, and a Center for Humanities magnet school. All of them have homework which last from about 5-6 until 12-1 am every night. When you have conversations with them it is very apparent that they don't understand or care at all about what they are learning, but they can recite pages of facts. This is the main reason (with input from the parents) my dd decided not to attend the IB school that accepted her. After talking to several students who attend plus my visiting with some parents of students, 6 to 12 every night is not out of line. Every parent lamented that their kids had no life outside of school. Also, this school does not offer any sports - it is just academics. Two of the girls I know are involved in church activities, but that's it. These kids are turning out an incredible amount of work, but I had to wonder how deep the learning was. It seemed more like just shaking hands with an acquaintance rather than developing the deep, intimate relationship I want my children to have with their learning. I'm sure there's facebook and texting going on during that homework time, but I know my brain was fairly fried by the time I got home from an 8 hour day at work, and there was no way I going to hit the books with an alert mind unless I had some down time. Students need some time to regroup, also. Regardless of facebook or whatever, the homework load was unbelievable. I am so thankful we didn't choose that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8filltheheart Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Hands up everyone with teens who make maximal use of their time, especially at the end of a long day? Whose teens speed eagerly through their algebra problems (even during their regular math lesson)? Whose teens easily and quickly shift from one subject to another and maintain deep focus? You're lucky. :p And hands up those who don't. Sheesh. I'd be happy to have a bit of change for every time someone here offered the advice, "Oh, it's just hormones... they'll get their mind back in about five years," when a parent here is expressing frustration with their teens' work habits. FWIW, I am not a fast reader. It would take me at least an hour to read 80 pages of Angela's Ashes (yes, I've read it), perhaps a bit more if I were also considering how to complete an assignment based on my reading. Are we expecting her to read Tarbuck's through once and retain anything? It's actually a pretty good text, but you still have to *think* your way through much of it. Her workload sounds excessive to me. I went on Amazon and read their see inside. It would take a couple of my kids quite a while to read it bc of the lack off quotations and just the speech/flow in general. Btw, you are so right. This isn't work wing done during the day. It is work being dine after a full day when most people are ready for down time and relaxation. Everything takes longer when you are tired and can't focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I am annoyed because I just made these fabulous points on the other thread, 8fill and nmoira. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmoira Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I am annoyed because I just made these fabulous points on the other thread, 8fill and nmoira. LOL I only just saw the other thread. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lang Syne Boardie Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I've been "liking" this one while commenting on that one all day. I've been rather confused the whole time. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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