maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Do you know if there are any laws that require a Mennonite furniture business that is open to the public to provide public restrooms? Do they have to abide by the ADA rules or are they exempt? I just had a terrible experience where the owner of the store wouldn't let me use their potty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 My information on this is definitely dated, so there may be someone who knows better than me. When I worked in a bookstore, the owners told me that certain standards have to be met for a restroom to be considered a public restroom. Those standards are onerous on a small business, so the store in which I worked chose to specifically designate our store restroom as being for employees only. If they had made it available to the public, they would have faced fines and possibly being forced to upgrade to a "public" restroom, which would have been prohibitively expensive. That was years ago, though, so I don't know if things are different now. Also I don't know if there is any variation on this from state to state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In The Great White North Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I have been in many stores that do not have a public bathroom. Mennonite has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Thank you for your reply. My quick google search said that effective march 2011, small businesses open to the public had to provide a public restroom. But I wonder if their being Mennonite exempted them? I don't know. I do know they were ready to accept my money and collect my taxes, so I don't know why they could be exempt from the bathroom issue. I am just mad :). I told them so too And have taken my business elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I was in a small business a couple of months ago and she said she couldn't let us use the bathroom because it wasn't up to code for a public restroom, as a previous poster said. The business was an antique store in Ellicott City, MD where the buildings date from the 1800s. The bathroom was a tiny little closet under a set of stairs with stone walls and janitorial supplies crammed in it. Edited because I can't seem to stop hitting submit before I check for ipad keying errors. Ugh. Hate thr ipad keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 My google search only shows that establishments that serve food must have a public restroom. I frequent many businesses that do not have public restrooms. Most places like clothing shops, furniture stores, etc don't have them unless they are a large chain store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 The only places where it seems standard to have a public restroom are restaurants. I would say that most stores, especially those that are not "big box" stores do not have public restrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Thank you for your reply. My quick google search said that effective march 2011, small businesses open to the public had to provide a public restroom. But I wonder if their being Mennonite exempted them? I don't know. I do know they were ready to accept my money and collect my taxes, so I don't know why they could be exempt from the bathroom issue. I am just mad :). I told them so too And have taken my business elsewhere. I'm guessing that must be specific to your locality. It is not the law here in Tennessee. Has nothing to do with religion (being Mennonite or any other religion). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Why would you have expected them to let you use their bathroom? :confused: Many stores don't have public restrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 This is the info that I pulled up. It seems like to me that all small businesses, not just restaurants, are to be in compliance with the ADA regulations. http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 This is the info that I pulled up. It seems like to me that all small businesses, not just restaurants, are to be in compliance with the ADA regulations. http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Most stores do not have public bathrooms. I have seen exceptions made for little kids who are dancing around about to pee themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 This is the info that I pulled up. It seems like to me that all small businesses, not just restaurants, are to be in compliance with the ADA regulations. http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm Nothing in that document states that they are required to offer public restrooms. Only that they must be ADA compliant if they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 This is the info that I pulled up. It seems like to me that all small businesses, not just restaurants, are to be in compliance with the ADA regulations. http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm Not for anything, but you seem to be taking this way too seriously. Why was this such a big deal to you? I feel like I must be missing something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Why would you have expected them to let you use their bathroom? :confused: Many stores don't have public restrooms. Uhhhh, because I was a customer who was about to spend a couple thousand dollars in their store. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Uhhhh, because I was a customer who was about to spend a couple thousand dollars in their store. Why should that entitle you to special privileges? I'm not trying to be snarky, but I spend a lot of money in stores all the time, and it would never even occur to me to assume that because I was spending money, I had the run of the place and could use the employee restroom any time I wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeenagerMom Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 This is the info that I pulled up. It seems like to me that all small businesses, not just restaurants, are to be in compliance with the ADA regulations. http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/smallbusiness/smallbusprimer2010.htm That is if they already provide a public restroom. If they have a public restroom it must be meet ADA guidelines. If the general public is not normally allowed to use their restroom facilities, then they do not have to allow ADA customers either. The purpose of the ADA is to provide EQUAL accessibility to disabled individuals, not extraordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 That is if they already provide a public restroom. If they have a public restroom it must be meet ADA guidelines. If the general public is not normally allowed to use their restroom facilities, then they do not have to allow ADA customers either. The purpose of the ADA is to provide EQUAL accessibility to disabled individuals, not extraordinary. Oh, I see. Your explanation helps. They did have a restroom in sight but it is not deemed a public restroom, I guess. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Why should that entitle you to special privileges? I'm not trying to be snarky, but I spend a lot of money in stores all the time, and it would never even occur to me to assume that because I was spending money, I had the run of the place and could use the employee restroom any time I wanted. Yea, thanks. I appreciate your wonderful insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I don't expect most small businesses to have a restroom. If I stopped in to see my insurance agent, I wouldn't expect to be allowed to use their employee restroom. That seems like an undue burden on a small business. There have been times I've been in a place and really wished they had a public restroom, and there have been a few times, particularly with kids, that I've requested special use for an emergency. Those have always been granted, though reluctantly. I don't blame them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Yea, thanks. I appreciate your wonderful insight. You were the one who posted and asked for opinions. Sorry you didn't like mine. :glare: Personally, I can't understand why anyone would get so worked up over not being able to use the restroom in a store, but apparently you feel differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 You were the one who posted and asked for opinions. Sorry you didn't like mine. :glare: Personally, I can't understand why anyone would get so worked up over not being able to use the restroom in a store, but apparently you feel differently. The opinions I greatly appreciate. The snark, completely unnecessary and unbecoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 The opinions I greatly appreciate. The snark, completely unnecessary and unbecoming. Were you this friendly to the people at the Mennonite furniture store? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Were you this friendly to the people at the Mennonite furniture store? ;) Wow. Classy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 You were the one who posted and asked for opinions. Sorry you didn't like mine. :glare: Personally, I can't understand why anyone would get so worked up over not being able to use the restroom in a store, but apparently you feel differently. Anagram for Mennonite is: "Eminent No." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Anagram for Mennonite is: "Eminent No." :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: How did you get to be so good at anagrams, Trish? I would never have come up with that! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Mungo Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Do you know if there are any laws that require a Mennonite furniture business that is open to the public to provide public restrooms? Do they have to abide by the ADA rules or are they exempt? I just had a terrible experience where the owner of the store wouldn't let me use their potty. There are loads of states that don't require public access to restrooms. IF they have a public restroom, then it is required to be ADA accessible, but many states don't require a public restroom. Here in Hawaii even a lot of restaurants don't have public restrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: How did you get to be so good at anagrams, Trish? I would never have come up with that! :) I didn't mean to give the impression I have a talent. I use the Wordsmith.org anagram maker, and then pick whichever result seems to fit the situation. I think if you spend $1,000 or more in a store, they should provide a bidet. :coolgleamA: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I didn't mean to give the impression I have a talent. I use the Wordsmith.org anagram maker, and then pick whichever result seems to fit the situation. And here I was, thinking you were some kind of Anagram Genius! :D But hey, you're still smarter than I am -- I didn't even know that Wordsmith had an anagram maker! :) I think if you spend $1,000 or more in a store, they should provide a bidet. :coolgleamA: :D :D :D :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom2scouts Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 In my state, all stores above a certain square footage are required to have a restroom that is accessible to the public. Lots of older stores have restrooms that are in their storage areas and they tell people they can't use them. My dh is an architect and knows when a store is required to have a public bathroom and he's been known to cite the building code and barge into the back room restroom when necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 You were the one who posted and asked for opinions. Sorry you didn't like mine. :glare: Personally, I can't understand why anyone would get so worked up over not being able to use the restroom in a store, but apparently you feel differently. Actually, the initial post does not ask for an opinion. So, your response is snarky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Here there are public toilets and there are shops. Very rarely do the two combine in the same building. I think the OP was the snarky one... fancy abusing the staff of a shop because she wanted special privileges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renthead Mommy Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Wow if it's that much of an issue for you, don't ever go to NYC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luanne Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 It seemed like the OP was blaming the fact that the store was owned by Mennonites as being the reason there was no public restroom. I think that might have been the impression Catwoman was given as well. She can correct me if I am wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Wow if it's that much of an issue for you, don't ever go to NYC! Or antiquing in Virginia. Seriously, though... what did the OP think she would accomplish by berating the shop when they informed her that they didn't have a restroom for her to use?? :confused1: Not classy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think people often forget that it takes time and money to maintain a public restroom. Those are two things many small businesses don't have. OP, I'm sorry your experience was a bad one. I have been disappointed to find out a business didn't have a public restroom, but I just found another one somewhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I have a teensy tiny bladder that doesn't give me a lot of warning, even post surgery to help correct the issue. While I don't expect to be able to use the toilet at every store I go to, I will admit to favoring the shops which I know have them. Around here most shops carrying durable goods/big ticket items do offer public restrooms. All grocers and most drug stores do too. All restaurants do as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think people often forget that it takes time and money to maintain a public restroom. Those are two things many small businesses don't have. OP, I'm sorry your experience was a bad one. I have been disappointed to find out a business didn't have a public restroom, but I just found another one somewhere else. Thank you. That was the predicament I faced. The location of this store was at least 45 minutes out in the country and there were absolutely no other toilets in the area, except for trees :). We drove to this furniture store today, with a trailer in tow, specifically to buy furniture for our new house. I am 25 weeks pregnant, drove almost an hour, we were literally the only customers in the entire store, and we were planning to spend BIG bucks. I hardly think it would have been an imposition for them to allow me to use their restroom. This is not a normal situation where we could just run over to the nearest gas station. I did ask to use the restroom and they were very rude to me. Not the other way around. I was very upset but I was not at all rude to the owner. I just simply and clearly stated that I would take our business to a place that could accommodate our needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think people often forget that it takes time and money to maintain a public restroom. Those are two things many small businesses don't have. OP, I'm sorry your experience was a bad one. I have been disappointed to find out a business didn't have a public restroom, but I just found another one somewhere else. Thank you. That was the predicament I faced. The location of this store was at least 45 minutes out in the country and there were absolutely no other toilets in the area, except for trees :). We drove to this furniture store today, with a trailer in tow, specifically to buy furniture for our new house. I am 25 weeks pregnant, drove almost an hour, we were literally the only customers in the entire store, and we were planning to spend BIG bucks. I hardly think it would have been an imposition for them to allow me to use their restroom. This is not a normal situation where we could just run over to the nearest gas station. I did ask to use the restroom and they were very rude to me. Not the other way around. I was very upset but I was not at all rude to the owner. I just simply and clearly stated that I would take our business to a place that could accommodate our needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Sorry for the double and triple posts. Blasted iPhone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I generally think that pregnant ladies deserve the same sort of dispensation that most places will give to potty dancing tots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddykate Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Here there are public toilets and there are shops. Very rarely do the two combine in the same building. I think the OP was the snarky one... fancy abusing the staff of a shop because she wanted special privileges. Your definition of abuse and mine are vastly different. And I hardly think using the toliet is a special privilege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I generally think that pregnant ladies deserve the same sort of dispensation that most places will give to potty dancing tots. Except that some small businesses really can't afford to take the risk of letting a customer use their employees-only restroom. I once worked in a small art supply store with an employees-only restroom. One of the things the owner/manager went over with me the first day I was there was their policy on not letting ANYone use the restroom. The restroom was large and it doubled as a store room for product and cleaning supplies. Boxes were piled everywhere. Not in a dangerous way, but you just never know. Worker's comp would have covered any employee that got injured, but the owner said there was no way she could afford any insurance policy that would protect a customer while using it in an emergency situation and then got injured in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfunnybunch Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Do you know if there are any laws that require a Mennonite furniture business that is open to the public to provide public restrooms? Do they have to abide by the ADA rules or are they exempt? I just had a terrible experience where the owner of the store wouldn't let me use their potty. Businesses are not required to provide public restrooms. The ADA does not require any businesses to have public restrooms. The ADA is meant to ensure that people with disabilities have equal access to the same services and facilities as nondisabled people. As long as both disabled and nondisabled people equally do not have access to the restroom in the business, the ADA is not applicable. The ADA does not apply to pregnancy, as pregnancy is not a disability. I am sorry they were rude to you. It sounds like they lost your business, which is an appropriate consequence. Cat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. I've found that explaining a predicament to someone often gets them to help you find a solution - even if the solution is the best tree to hide behind. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Your definition of abuse and mine are vastly different. And I hardly think using the toliet is a special privilege. I think Melissa was using the word "abusing" slightly differently than an American would. It's more common in Britain, and I am guessing that it is also more common in Australia, where Melissa is posting from, to use the term in the same sense that an American might use a term like "gave him a piece of my mind" or "telling off." Unfortunately, using the toilet in a store that is not set up with a legally public restroom IS a special privilege. Business owners do have to obey the law. They are not at fault for obeying the law. They shouldn't be rude about it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMamaBird Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Thank you. That was the predicament I faced. The location of this store was at least 45 minutes out in the country and there were absolutely no other toilets in the area, except for trees :). We drove to this furniture store today, with a trailer in tow, specifically to buy furniture for our new house. I am 25 weeks pregnant, drove almost an hour, we were literally the only customers in the entire store, and we were planning to spend BIG bucks. I hardly think it would have been an imposition for them to allow me to use their restroom. This is not a normal situation where we could just run over to the nearest gas station. I did ask to use the restroom and they were very rude to me. Not the other way around. I was very upset but I was not at all rude to the owner. I just simply and clearly stated that I would take our business to a place that could accommodate our needs. This is one instance where yes, the law might say they don't have to provide a public restroom. But courtesy would say that you could let children or pregnant women use an employee toilet. Sorry you had to deal with such sticklers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 After reading some of the comments here, I suppose it makes sense for businesses to refuse to take the risk of opening up their nonpublic bathroom to the public for any reason. As I said, on occasion I've asked to use the private bathroom and the request was granted, but reluctantly. As I think about it now I remember one shopkeeper who was quite nervous and kept telling me to be careful, and quick. The restroom was inconveniently placed, I remember that. I suppose aside from the risk of someone being hurt, if a bathroom isn't maintained for public use and someone complained to a public agency (health department?) there could be severe consequences. There are also consequences to annoying a potential customer. Maybe losing a sale is still preferable. I really feel for small business owners in the US. It's got to be a tough life. It's possible the storekeeper in the OP's situation were grieved to have to say no, and to lose the business, but felt they had no choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I used to live 35 miles from town. Believe me, I knew where every clean restroom in town was. Every business has one, it seems. I've never, ever run into a business refusing my use of the facilities. Especially big ticket items like furniture stores. Frankly...if the customer leaves to go potty elsewhere, he or she may never return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 My bank doesn't have restrooms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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