Remember that kid who was homeschooled...

[fairfarmhand]

and he was trying to change VA's religious exemption laws?

 

He's on NPR today.

 

its on tell me more.

 

http://www.npr.org/programs/tell-me-more/

[Lilaclady]

Thanks listening to it and the follow up right now

[Catwoman]

I'm too lazy to listen.

 

Can someone give me a really quick recap when it's over?  :)

 

 

[Χά�ων]

I'm too lazy to listen.

 

Can someone give me a really quick recap when it's over? :)

I'm not lazy as much as do not have the time or attenton span to listen. I prefer transcripts.

[Blueridge]

I just listened to the recording. Yuck. He was very critical of his homeschooling experience, and of his parent's (lack of) ability to give him the quality education that he apparently deserved.  :glare: He has quite a bit of animosity toward his parents (and their religious beliefs) and said he went public for his sibling's sake...

[Catwoman]

I'm not lazy as much as do not have the time or attenton span to listen. I prefer transcripts.

 

:iagree:

 

I feel exactly the same way.

 

(But I am kinda lazy, too...  ;))

[Catwoman]

I just listened to the recording. Yuck. He was very critical of his homeschooling experience, and of his parent's (lack of) ability to give him the quality education that he apparently deserved.  :glare: He has quite a bit of animosity toward his parents (and their religious beliefs) and said he went public for his sibling's sake...

 

From what you just posted, it sounds like perhaps this young man's issues have a lot more to do with his overall relationship with his parents than with anything else. 

 

I'm not sure why he would have had to go public "for his sibling's sake." :confused:  It sounds more like he wants publicity for himself, or to try to embarrass and humiliate his parents in a really big way.

 

I don't know the details of this story, though, so I could be totally off-base. I have to admit that I am generally not inclined to be overly positive toward people who end up doing well in life, yet still whine about how their parents didn't give them everything they "deserved," so that may be coloring my thinking a bit. 

 

 

[Blueridge]

I'm probably just too sensitive about this sort of thing, but he certainly wasn't too kind about his mother. I'm sure she feels quite discarded by her son. Sharing tidbits like him coming to her with pre-algebra problems and her not being at all able to help and advising him to 'just pray about it...'. Why,if he hadn't taken matters into his own hands and sought outside help he would have never made it to the university level, bless his humble, pea-pickin heart (my words, not his!). He wants the school board to not only consider parent's wishes and religious stances, but the student's religious beliefs, too, before granting exemptions. But I really was put off by his condescending tone. 

[LucyStoner]

I'm probably just too sensitive about this sort of thing, but he certainly wasn't too kind about his mother. I'm sure she feels quite discarded by her son. Sharing tidbits like him coming to her with pre-algebra problems and her not being at all able to help and advising him to 'just pray about it...'. Why,if he hadn't taken matters into his own hands and sought outside help he would have never made it to the university level, bless his humble, pea-pickin heart (my words, not his!). He wants the school board to not only consider parent's wishes and religious stances, but the student's religious beliefs, too, before granting exemptions. But I really was put off by his condescending tone. 

 

If they don't owe him a basic education (as people outrageously stated on the other thread), then what exactly should he, as their child,  owe them?  Being told to pray about math problems is not education.  If it is true, he certainly as the right to share it and let authorities know since these people are still "educating" other children.  I think he sounds young but that doesn't make him wrong.  

[bettyandbob]

I thought it was a nice interview and he was not disrespectful to his parents at all. 

 

The fact that his first class at the community college was when he was 17. He took prealgebra. He's obviously very intelligent if he got from prealgebra to Georgetown in a short time. I do not see any excuse for not teaching prealgebra at home. Fractions, decimals and percents are used in daily life even if you don't go to college. If he's as intelligent as he seems there no reason he could not have mastered prealgebra in 5th grade. Which goes back to my goals when I started homeschooling my 18 yo--I was not going to close doors for him. Someone who starts with prealgebra at 17 is highly unlikely to go into a science or engineering field. This young man is not headed this direction, but if he had been exposed to math earlier maybe he would have been. Do not tell me he should have been seeking out higher math on his own when he was 12. 

 

I also listened to the follow up discussion on homeschooling in general which included Micheal Farris, a mother who formerly homeschooled, and a father who was homeschooled, but chose not to homeschool his children. I think it was reasonably positive. It was short, so not much depth. They each talked about the potential for gaps and community resources to fill gaps. The mother also talked about the financial cost of filling some of those gaps and the financial cost of homeschooling itself (cost of tutors for higher level courses and loss of family income). 

[fairfarmhand]

I did like the second segment very much. It was very balanced.  I also appreciated Michael Farris' pointing out "Homeschooling is a TON of work." Something that many people don't want to share.

[Blueridge]

I haven't had time to hear the second interview yet, but I think there are probably quite a few unresolved issues going on with this family besides homeschooling. Religion for one! "Her children will rise up and call her blessed" isn't quite the picture he is painting. I took his calm tone as quite passive aggressive, leaving me with the thought that he thinks he is brilliant and his parents are bumbling idiots. Hey, even if they are, they still deserve some respect. He has everyone believing there is abuse going on in families who choose a religious exemption. :confused1:  I think that is poppycock and there is much more to the whole story that he failed to share to keep his interview balanced. The interviewer followed along with comments about him taking GED courses (you know, the classes that high school drop outs take to try and learn something :glare: ). Anyhoo...IMHO but I wanted to finish my little vent before going to cook supper.  :smash:  

[kwg]

In the second interview, a woman called saying she grew increasingly scared that she would be behind all her friends in school and not as smart (something like that) but it turns out that was not true.  My son does that.  He thinks the reason he doesnt go to school is that it will be "too hard".  

 

I have told him differently of course.  He actually scores well enough to be in gifted classes according to the tester.  

[LostSurprise]

I listened to the whole thing and didn't find him overly critical to his parents. He said he understood why his parents did what they did. When asked if he thought they were 'abusive' (for telling him to pray that God would give him the answer to his math problem) he said he wasn't abused and felt lucky that they were supportive of him. He gave them consideration for what they did well with him (good early start, etc.).

 

Obviously he disagrees with the outcome, mostly at the high school level where they don't seem prepared to teach or find teachers for their children.  

 

They asked why he came forward. He said he came forward because the subject of religious exemption came up within the legislation and he feels strongly about it and contacted the legislator to let him know his story. He feels his story is supportive of removal of the religious exemption clause, so he was open about it. He worries about his younger siblings, the ones who did not have the early start he did (since he was the oldest and had more time with his mother). 

 

His criticism seems pretty direct to the carte blanche of the religious exemption, not his mother. He feels older students should have some control over the direction of their education. It seems his parents were eventually willing to allow him to pursue his own schooling but HSLDA warned them that they could lose the religious exemption for their other children so they kept him home. 

 

I think its important for us to not immediately reject what others say because it doesn't fit with our own lives and experiences. I think this young man has found a dark spot, a shadow, in our system of law and its especially important that we, as homeschoolers, be honest with ourselves and think not just about what might bother us, but how the law affects everyone else. 

[LostSurprise]

BTW, obviously Blueridge and I had completely different reactions from the same interview, so I encourage folks to go listen to it. Choose the specific segment of the program devoted to this young man. Its not that long. 

[Danestress]

I always tell people to assume their children will grow up and write memoirs.

 

I don't think it is disrespectful for this man to tell his story truthfully. If his Mom want to share her 'side' she can do that. He was denied a basic education, and he has a right to tell that story. He turned his situation around commendably. Why should he have to keep quiet to protect his mother? She may have been a nice Mom, but she sounds like a lousy teacher.

[Moxie]

So many people go into homeschooling thinking it is the magic bullet for raising kids in XYZ religion. This is proof that it's not.

[Catwoman]

Um yeah that's pretty outrageous actually. 

 

:iagree:

 

I think the problem is that we don't know if she told him on a regular basis to pray about his math problems, or if it was a one-time thing when she had already helped him with a dozen other problems, was having a rough day, and was at the end of her rope so she made a snarky comment. 

 

Obviously, if she consistently told him to ask God to help him with his schoolwork (because she had no intention of helping him herself,) that's pretty rotten. But that's not a religious thing; it's a poor parenting thing. 

 

Plenty of parents are very religious, and include religion as a major part of their homeschooling, yet end up with extremely well-educated children. I don't think religious education or a religious exemption is the issue here. Many states have no educational requirements for homeschool families, and religion has nothing at all to do with it. 

[Guest]

 

I'm mostly happy with my level of freedom with regards to homeschooling and many people think NY is a hard state to homeschool in.

 

Too true. I told dh I was not interested in moving to upstate NY or PA (two possibilities otherwise on the table) because I don't want to homeschool in either state! :D

[Catwoman]

Too true. I told dh I was not interested in moving to upstate NY or PA (two possibilities otherwise on the table) because I don't want to homeschool in either state! :D

 

We may be moving within the next year or so, and you can bet I'm checking very closely into the homeschool laws and regulations for the states we are considering. 

[kwg]

:iagree:

 

I think the problem is that we don't know if she told him on a regular basis to pray about his math problems, or if it was a one-time thing when she had already helped him with a dozen other problems, was having a rough day, and was at the end of her rope so she made a snarky comment. 

 

Obviously, if she consistently told him to ask God to help him with his schoolwork (because she had no intention of helping him herself,) that's pretty rotten. But that's not a religious thing; it's a poor parenting thing. 

 

Plenty of parents are very religious, and include religion as a major part of their homeschooling, yet end up with extremely well-educated children. I don't think religious education or a religious exemption is the issue here. Many states have no educational requirements for homeschool families, and religion has nothing at all to do with it. 

 

That is true.  I had not thought of that!

[Carrie12345]

I did not watch the link b/c I can't possibly compete with the noise in my house, but... What exactly is the "religious exemption" being discussed? My kids aren't homeschooled with any sort of religious exemption. I could probably get away with doing a rotten job if I worked hard enough on the paperwork in this high-regulation state. And we're not religious.

[fairfarmhand]

:iagree:

 

I think the problem is that we don't know if she told him on a regular basis to pray about his math problems, or if it was a one-time thing when she had already helped him with a dozen other problems, was having a rough day, and was at the end of her rope so she made a snarky comment. 

 

Obviously, if she consistently told him to ask God to help him with his schoolwork (because she had no intention of helping him herself,) that's pretty rotten. But that's not a religious thing; it's a poor parenting thing. 

 

 

 

EXACTLY! I've had days similar. I've taught my dd everything I know to teach her and she has just quit on me. She's determined that a "real" teacher would pour the knowledge into her head and she wouldn't have to put forth any effort whatsoever.

 

I can't judge the homeschooling parents at all from this one side of the interview.

 

I believe the HSLDA misled them wrt the law.

[jenn&charles]

 

Parents who can not understand a child's schoolwork should not be home-educating the child. Period.

 

I just wanted to quickly comment on your statement and respectfully disagree.

 

My oldest son was studying calculus (through Calculus BC), number theory, college level linear algebra and advanced, 2nd year physics. I did not understand his schoolwork for those particular courses.  I also didn't know one lick of Visual Basic (Object Oriented Programming) or C++ (computer programing). Should I not have been home educating him?

 

It's the fact that I was home educating him that gave him the opportunity to become as advanced as he was. He graduated at the age of 16. 

 

My job is to educate my kids to the best of my ability and sometimes that is teaching them to know how to obtain the best resources to educate themselves as well as to nurture a love for learning that can carry them successfully into their future.

 

I do think I understand what you are trying to say. I just wanted to point out that there are different situations. My goal is and always was to have my children exceed myself in is many areas as possible. My son certainly exceeded my abilities in math (and physics and computers in regards to programming). I didn't need to know what he wanted to learn in order to provide the material for him to learn. There are a lot of things out there now that shouldn't limit any parent who wants to homeschool, whether they understand their child's schoolwork or not.

 

Having said all of the above, I do think it's a homeschooling parent's job to work extremely hard to provide every opportunity for their children to learn and if a parent can't understand a particular level of math or science or whatever, then it's his/her job to figure out how to get the right materials so that the child can learn (and in some cases, the parent can learn along with the child - as I have done with Latin).

[bettyandbob]

I did not watch the link b/c I can't possibly compete with the noise in my house, but... What exactly is the "religious exemption" being discussed? My kids aren't homeschooled with any sort of religious exemption. I could probably get away with doing a rotten job if I worked hard enough on the paperwork in this high-regulation state. And we're not religious.

In Virginia if you claim religious exemption, you report nothing else ever again.

 

If you go the other route, once a year you send a letter of intent to homeschool. You state generally what grade and subjects you will teach. Once a year you need to send in the results of a standardized test for reading and math. I used the CAT because it was cheap and I could administer it myself. Your dc need only perform above the bottom q uarter of students to be considered making adequate progress. If you don't want to do the standardized testing, then you can hire an evaluator to look through portfolios of work (people whose dc have disabilities often do this).

 

It is very easy to homeschool in VA, without the religious exemption.

[Arcadia]

Too true. I told dh I was not interested in moving to upstate NY or PA (two possibilities otherwise on the table) because I don't want to homeschool in either state! :D

The first thing hubby ask was if there is a virtual academy in NY just like in California.  Most likely my boys would go back to B&M school if we move to NY unless we can afford private school.

 

 

Having said all of the above, I do think it's a homeschooling parent's job to work extremely hard to provide every opportunity for their children to learn and if a parent can't understand a particular level of math or science or whatever, then it's his/her job to figure out how to get the right materials so that the child can learn (and in some cases, the parent can learn along with the child - as I have done with Latin).

 

I think it is every parent job, whether as a homeschooler or afterschooler.

 

[jenn&charles]

 

 

I think it is every parent job, whether as a homeschooler or afterschooler.

 

 

I agree! :-)

[Arcadia]

It truly is not difficult to homeschool in NY.  I've been reporting now for 5 years.  This past year was the first year I had to provide test scores.  That went off without a hitch. 

Hubby prefers having a assigned public school teacher that's all.  Besides if I homeschool, I have to fulfill homeschool regulations of my home country as well because my boy is a foreigner and is still under compulsory education law back home until he is 16 years old.  I even have to update his immunization records with my home country's government.

[Catwoman]

Hubby prefers having a assigned public school teacher that's all.  Besides if I homeschool, I have to fulfill homeschool regulations of my home country as well because my boy is a foreigner and is still under compulsory education law back home until he is 16 years old.  I even have to update his immunization records with my home country's government.

 

I didn't realize that you would have to do things like that! 

[Catherine]

I just listened to the recording. Yuck. He was very critical of his homeschooling experience, and of his parent's (lack of) ability to give him the quality education that he apparently deserved.  :glare: He has quite a bit of animosity toward his parents (and their religious beliefs) and said he went public for his sibling's sake...

I didn't hear him say anything about his parent's religious beliefs. On the contrary, I think he was respectful of them as people. He was critical of the fact that they did not attempt to teach him pre-algebra and suggested he pray instead for guidance on the math. IMO that is a pretty appropriate criticism. It's hard for me to imagine that well-intentioned parent\teachers would purposely fail to teach their motivated child a subject that is non-controversial and most certainly needed for anyone who is considering a college education. What's even more amazing is that his mother has a degree from UVA!! It's hard to imagine someone who has benefitted from an excellent college education themselves choosing to deny that to their own child, in the name of protecting him from exposure to worldly ideas. I'm making an assumption here.

[Blueridge]

I was taking this too personally. Please forgive me for my rants. I've just seen dd20 have to explain and often defend homeschooling over and over every time she's in any type of group setting...classes, meetings, formal dinners, you name it. Somebody *always* has an attitude like, "You did THAT??" Thankfully she is very passionate about its success and actually enjoys being able to share her experience, and has even talked a few people into homeschooling their own children. ;) But as her mom, I wish she didn't have that kind of scrutiny all the time. I would find it exhausting. People just seem to have such a strong reaction to the whole concept and it makes me feel frustrated. I believe they hear stories like this one and believe it is the norm. I just want to scream JUST LOOK AT ALL THE SUCCESS STORIES AT THE WTM BOARD FOR GOODNESS SAKE. I don't want our liberties to be slowly removed because of a few disheartening examples of 'failure'. I'm happy now so that is all. :) 

[Arcadia]

I didn't realize that you would have to do things like that!

My country legalised homeschooling a few years ago. My country so small education is centrally controlled by the govt (no states). I wouldn't want to rock the boat for other people by being defiant.

It takes effort but it is not that hard to comply. I just need to submit the official details of my boy's school to the education ministry. They will follow up/verify as needed.

Citizenship comes with strings attached; just like you have jury duty, I have other obligations to comply.

[Aelwydd]

I was taking this too personally. Please forgive me for my rants. I've just seen dd20 have to explain and often defend homeschooling over and over every time she's in any type of group setting...classes, meetings, formal dinners, you name it. Somebody *always* has an attitude like, "You did THAT??" Thankfully she is very passionate about its success and actually enjoys being able to share her experience, and has even talked a few people into homeschooling their own children. ;) But as her mom, I wish she didn't have that kind of scrutiny all the time. I would find it exhausting. People just seem to have such a strong reaction to the whole concept and it makes me feel frustrated. I believe they hear stories like this one and believe it is the norm. I just want to scream JUST LOOK AT ALL THE SUCCESS STORIES AT THE WTM BOARD FOR GOODNESS SAKE. I don't want our liberties to be slowly removed because of a few disheartening examples of 'failure'. I'm happy now so that is all. :)

I understand. Home schooling isn't the "standard" and so that automatically makes people look at it a bit sideways. My issue with comparing the lack in that young man's education to the lack we see in many public school graduates is that at least in public school--you have counselors, other teachers, teachers' aides, after school tutors, school libraries, school computer labs, etc.

 

This guy--he couldn't even get to the local library without a ride. He was pretty much isolated from any help outside of his parents. So, when they chose to deny him an adequate education, he was really up a creek.

 

Arguments that hey, look, he ended up in Georgetown don't move me either. If he had had access to the materials and help he needed, when he first needed it, he could have had all these courses finished and graduated high school by 16, and had his undergrad from Harvard or Yale by 19 or 20. He might be almost finished with his Master's by now.

 

You see my point, I hope? His parents' choice to deny him an education matching to his abilities did, in fact, hurt him. It meant he spent years backtracking and covering material that he could have done much, much sooner. Remember that thread a few weeks back about the three sisters who graduated from college all at very young ages? The youngest graduated at 16, I think. That's an example of where this bright man could have been.

 

I love what Dot said: My goal is and always was to have my children exceed myself in is many areas as possible.

 

That's my and dh's goal for ds as well. I can't fathom being content to give him less than what I had, or give him a substandard education. I really think these parents did him, and are doing his siblings, a real disservice. IMO, it almost seems like they were trying to create permanently semi-dependent adult children, in that they would be crippled educationally, and alienated culturally from the rest of society, and therefore forced to remain close to home, both psychologically and theologically.

 

But, that's just my conjecture. I don't have enough information to say for sure.

 

Anyway, point being, I don't put home schooling parents like myself or you into the same category as those parents. To me, they are like a whole 'nother animal. I don't get not trying to give your kids the very best education you can, and I'm not very sympathetic to parents--either public schooling or private schooling or home schooling--that seek to undermine their kids that way. After all, it's not just home schooled parents that sometimes resent or fear their kids' abilities and actually seek to hold them back.

[LibraryLover]

I had no idea Farris had 10 kids.

 

[Catwoman]

Did the guy ever mention what school subjects he was taught? I mean, I know what he says he didn't learn, but was he at all specific about what he did learn?

[Lilaclady]

I listened to both recordings and enjoyed them. I do not feel that the boy was being disrespectful to his parents. I think he reiterated many times that he was not abused but he just felt the homeschooling was severely lacking.

The second interview too was interesting, I feel for the lady who wanted to homeschool but couldn't continue because of finances. I felt they could have gotten another speaker who had older school age children rather than the homeschooled dad. His kids are still young and I feel they haven't had the chance to see whether they will still homeschool or not.

[bettyandbob]

Did the guy ever mention what school subjects he was taught? I mean, I know what he says he didn't learn, but was he at all specific about what he did learn?

It sounded to me like after he learned to read he simply read whatever books were available. His mother couldn't answer math questions and didn't give him access to materials that would. Going back to the article, it stated there he didn't write essays, which leads me to think the mother did not teach or assign writing, at least not beyond early elementary. The writing skills he had would have been based on picking sentence and paragraph structure from his reading. Not every child can o that.

 

What I never got from either the article or the interview was if he was taught the things his dad talked about in the article. His dad said he knew kids who had homeschooled and learned things like how to raise a cow. Nothing was ever said about this man or his siblings actually learning that type of no traditional school skills. The dad never said the family did those things. It was just seeing other families had done those things made him want to homeschool.

[bettyandbob]

Ugh Farris. Yuck.

 

Couldn't they find anyone a little less radical and crazy?

Did you listen to that segment? I was concerned when Farris was introduced, but it was fine. The three people in that segment gave an honest viewpoint of homeschool.

[Catwoman]

It sounded to me like after he learned to read he simply read whatever books were available. His mother couldn't answer math questions and didn't give him access to materials that would. Going back to the article, it stated there he didn't write essays, which leads me to think the mother did not teach or assign writing, at least not beyond early elementary. The writing skills he had would have been based on picking sentence and paragraph structure from his reading. Not every child can o that.

 

What I never got from either the article or the interview was if he was taught the things his dad talked about in the article. His dad said he knew kids who had homeschooled and learned things like how to raise a cow. Nothing was ever said about this man or his siblings actually learning that type of no traditional school skills. The dad never said the family did those things. It was just seeing other families had done those things made him want to homeschool.

Thanks, Betty! :)

 

It would be nice if the parents were to respond to their son's allegations, as it's very difficult to judge the situation without hearing their side of the story. That said, they are probably either too mortified or too angry with him to even want to get involved in this mess. They must feel incredibly betrayed. (But because I don't know their side of the story, I'm not sure whether or not I feel sorry for them, except to say that I'm not usually a big fan of people who publicly humiliate members of their own family.)

[Guest submarines]

:iagree:

 

I think the problem is that we don't know if she told him on a regular basis to pray about his math problems, or if it was a one-time thing when she had already helped him with a dozen other problems, was having a rough day, and was at the end of her rope so she made a snarky comment. 

 

Obviously, if she consistently told him to ask God to help him with his schoolwork (because she had no intention of helping him herself,) that's pretty rotten. But that's not a religious thing; it's a poor parenting thing. 

 

Plenty of parents are very religious, and include religion as a major part of their homeschooling, yet end up with extremely well-educated children. I don't think religious education or a religious exemption is the issue here. Many states have no educational requirements for homeschool families, and religion has nothing at all to do with it.

ITA^

 

A secular parent might say, "Go and give it more thought." Which might be totally appropriate.

[PrairieSong]

I just listened to the segment.  I did not think he sounded smug, though it does sound as though he has deep disagreements with his parents over more than just homeschooling.  

 

Anyway, I'm trying to wrap my mind around a homeschooling mom who has a degree from UVA and neglects to teach her son even pre-algebra.  I understand that she is the mother of 12 and has a full plate, but couldn't she have found some kind of help for him?  Videos? A tutor?  An outside class?  Were they dirt poor?  Did the mother suffer from depression or was something else going on?  I don't get it.

 

I am not a college graduate and I can't teach calculus.  One of my sons who is very good at math did algebra and geometry at home, and then took math (and some other subjects) at the community college for two years, finishing Calc II by the time he graduated from high school.  I think he had 26 college credits by then.

 

I just don't understand.  There must be more to the story.

[fairfarmhand]

Ugh Farris. Yuck.

 

Couldn't they find anyone a little less radical and crazy?

 

 

Did you listen to that segment? I was concerned when Farris was introduced, but it was fine. The three people in that segment gave an honest viewpoint of homeschool.

He represented the homeschooling community VERY well. I'd be surprised if any homeschooling parent could object to his portrayal of homeschooling. I too expected him to be a freak, but was pleasantly surprised at how honest he was concerning the pitfalls of homeschooling, and how he said that it's lots of hard work and not for every family.

 

That boy...he does have good points. But like Cat, it's hard for me to be very enthusiastic about a person who publicly humiliates his family. Additionally, this young (very young) man does not really understand what he's saying. School boards should ask kids whether or not they want to be homeschooled? Really? Do school officials ask public schooled kids whether they want to be zoned for a particular school or even go to school at all? Nope. Because even at 15-16 years old, you still have a ton of growing up to do, and you don't have the perspective that adults have. His comment about asking kids whether or not they want to attend public school reminded me of the old cosby show scene where Cliff is remonstrating Theo for his lack of effort in school. Theo has no clue about what it takes to get by in the real world, but he needs his dad to step up and tell him to get with the program.

 

One thing I don't understand is why there is a religious exemption. Virginia's other homeschooling provision seems very easy to work with. I fail to see how even very conservative families could object to the minimal levels of oversight. It seems like a great balance between total state control and parental flexibility in education.

[Laura Corin]

Not that you have to give me any details about yourself!  I've just never heard of having to follow laws of a country one didn't live in.

 

US citizens have to pay tax to the US on money over a certain amount that they earn overseas.  I was told that Cuba was the only other country with the same rule.  Husband has to fill in his US tax return (even whilst unemployed) even though he has no US earnings and has not been resident in the US since 1994.  So he's following the laws of a country that he does not live in.

 

ETA: by contrast, I did not fill in a UK tax return for the 18 years that I lived outside the UK - I had no UK earnings and the tax authorities had no hold over me.

 

If one gives up US citizenship, it triggers an automatic IRS investigation, which is apparently a nasty experience.

 

L

[beaners]

I've seen convention speakers suggest parents "pray about it" and tell their children to do the same for every single educational problem they have, with no other additional advice.  I am not surprised at all to hear about a parent offering prayer instead of instruction.  At the same time, I hope and expect it doesn't happen in every religious home. We are Christian, but our schooltime prayers usually involve me muttering something under my breath about God giving me the patience not to need to hide in the bathroom while dinner is cooking.

[Scarlett]

:iagree:

 

I think the problem is that we don't know if she told him on a regular basis to pray about his math problems, or if it was a one-time thing when she had already helped him with a dozen other problems, was having a rough day, and was at the end of her rope so she made a snarky comment.

 

Obviously, if she consistently told him to ask God to help him with his schoolwork (because she had no intention of helping him herself,) that's pretty rotten. But that's not a religious thing; it's a poor parenting thing.

 

Plenty of parents are very religious, and include religion as a major part of their homeschooling, yet end up with extremely well-educated children. I don't think religious education or a religious exemption is the issue here. Many states have no educational requirements for homeschool families, and religion has nothing at all to do with it.

This. Over site guarantees nothing. You can homeschool or virtual school or use a religious exemption or a boxed curriculum or send them to private school or public school and if you are a rotten parent your kids won't get the benefits of education or of life that they would from a good parent.

 

My son is in OK k12 VA....many of my friends feel it is too tough. Heck there are aspects of it that I feel are overboard and I cut corners. So with a more driven mother than I am my son might get a better education. I imagine most of us are doing the best we can to raise our kids.

[Arcadia]

What I'm confused by, however, is why you don't have to follow the laws of the country you reside in verses the country you don't reside in.

 

Not that you have to give me any details about yourself! I've just never heard of having to follow laws of a country one didn't live in.

I follow California laws as a resident and my home country laws as a citizen. So basically my boy complies with both state education law and his home country education law. Hope that makes sense.

[Χά�ων]

ITA^

 

A secular parent might say, "Go and give it more thought." Which might be totally appropriate.

No. A parent may say:

"I see you are struggling with this concept, let's look at it together and see if we can figure it out."

Or

"It seems this concept is difficult for you and I am not sure how else to explain it, here is another resource that may help you understand it."

Or

"I am not sure how else to help you with this subject so I have found a tutor to work with you, he will be here at 1pm."

[ZooRho]

We have hsed our boys under Religious Exemption.  
I have many friends who do the same thing.  We go to different churches and different denominations, so not part of a cult thing.

We actually used the tutoring law that VA has at first.  We then decided to go RE.  We felt our educational choices for our children were not something we wanted the state involved in at all.  Dh and I both have college degrees and both have teaching certificates.  I know friends that feel their family is sovereign and they didn't want any one else having a say in what they did. 

RE has been officially on the books since 1984, but there was already a law on the books  that parents had the right to religiously exempt children from school- no time to research the whys to that, but I do think it was something that goes WAY BACK.
 

Off the top of my head my friends that have done RE all have children that went to college.  Many graduated.  My son graduated from college in Dec with a degree in Criminal justice.    These are all, "normal" kids.  If you met them on the street you would not go oh homeschooler.   

In fact several have graduated and are working in the real world. 

My oldest also played soccer for both a hs team and a club team.  He also played in college.  He is well respected as a young adult.  

Most people who meet my boys are surprised at how well spoken they are.  The kids they meet usually comment YOU SEEM NORMAL.

My youngest is a competitive swimmer.  He has been on several zone teams for the state.  He too is well thought of as a person both by peers and adults.

Just because someone chooses to use the RE option doesn't mean they don't care or aren't educating their children.

(I didn't listen to the talk, I did read the previous article.)

 

[ZooRho]

No. A parent may say:

"I see you are struggling with this concept, let's look at it together and see if we can figure it out."

Or

"It seems this concept is difficult for you and I am not sure how else to explain it, here is another resource that may help you understand it."

Or

"I am not sure how else to help you with this subject so I have found a tutor to work with you, he will be here at 1pm."

I took what she meant as where a religious parent would say Go pray about it the secular parent would say go think about it some more.

 

BOTH parents may eventually say what you also said.  I know we did in our house use all these words.  

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I took what she meant as where a religious parent would say Go pray about it the secular parent would say go think about it some more.

 

BOTH parents may eventually say what you also said. I know we did in our house use all these words.

But THIS mother didn't. Ever.