Daughters, dating, and university

[Sarah CB]

This is not a vent, I'm happy to receive any comments or advice here.  

 

Dd (17) begins an engineering program at a university on the other side of the country in September.  This summer, she began dating a 21 year old young man.  On the surface, he seems very nice.  They go to church together (since they started seeing each other - his church is at the other side of the city so they go to hers), they do Taekwon-do together (that's where they met - they've known each other for about 10 years) and they go out and do things together.  He asked our permission to date dd and he seems very respectful and nice.  He's helpful around my house and he seems to really like our younger boys.  

 

However, he doesn't really have a plan for his life and he seems to be getting very serious about dd very quickly.  This is dd's first boyfriend and she's about to go away to school.  He works at a gym and is into some sort of multi-level marketing travel business that he thinks is going to make him rich.  He's talked about wanting to pursue TKD seriously, wanting to be a personal trainer, and wanting to strike it rich with his "business" so that he can go to bible school in LA (the Dream School???) and eventually become a Pastor.  He's also talking seriously about following dd to the other side of the country.  

 

Dh and I would really like dd to have a great university experience and not be bogged down by a boyfriend. 

 

We've asked for him to come for dinner this weekend and dh is going to talk to him.  

 

Has anyone else dealt with this?  I'd hate for her to get distracted at this point in her life and it really bugs me that she hasn't had a chance to go out and figure out who she is before being faced with someone who wants to move across the country to be with her.  

[lynn]

My first thought is Engineering is a tough program. Since that's what dd wants to study will new boyfriend understand the amount of study time dd will need vs having time for him?

[FaithManor]

Hmmm...I dated a young man, similar in description, right before I left for college. Then I went away, and I met focused people, boys with a purpose, boys not into get rich quick schemes, and not so clingy...men. Men and that was a big difference. Once exposed to that level of maturity, it didn't take long for me to see the light and end the dating relationship.

 

Many of my friends also went away to college attached when they left, and unattached by the end of the first semester. That includes male friends too. It goes both ways. Some of these neat young men had girlfriends who were just that...girls, and when they met women, the difference was a little startling. Suffice it to say, they decided that they liked the maturity level of the very focused young ladies they were meeting in their classes and not the immature ones at home that weren't making any plans except waiting at home for the college boy to come back with a ring.

 

Chances are, if I had my guess, I'd say that it will be this way for your dd and especially if she is going a good distance away.

[Sarah CB]

My first thought is Engineering is a tough program. Since that's what dd wants to study will new boyfriend understand the amount of study time dd will need vs having time for him?

 

No, I'm sure he doesn't, but I'm hoping that it doesn't go that far :(

[Aelwydd]

I agree with Wendy. She may end seriously resenting her parents interfering with her relationship with her boyfriend. I think I would have an open ended chat with her asking where she sees herself in a year, 5 years, etc. And then ask her how she sees their relationship going and let her mull it over.

 

I don't think I would ever approach him alone though bc that strikes me as overstepping. YMMV.

[Sarah CB]

Hmmm...I dated a young man, similar in description, right before I left for college. Then I went away, and I met focused people, boys with a purpose, boys not into get rich quick schemes, and not so clingy...men. Men and that was a big difference. Once exposed to that level of maturity, it didn't take long for me to see the light and end the dating relationship.

 

Many of my friends also went away to college attached when they left, and unattached by the end of the first semester. That includes male friends too. It goes both ways. Some of these neat young men had girlfriends who were just that...girls, and when they met women, the difference was a little startling. Suffice it to say, they decided that they liked the maturity level of the very focused young ladies they were meeting in their classes and not the immature ones at home that weren't making any plans except waiting at home for the college boy to come back with a ring.

 

Chances are, if I had my guess, I'd say that it will be this way for your dd and especially if she is going a good distance away.

 

That's my gut feeling as well, but I'm really worried about whether he's going to try to follow her before that even happens.  I really feel like she needs at least a year of school to start getting an idea of what life is like as her own person.  She'll be living far away from parents, meeting new people, and learning new things - I want her to have room to grow.  

[momma2three]

I think that it's kind of common for kids just about to graduate high school and go off to college to sort of... regress maybe?  Try to cling on to the comfort of home and childhood, and make sort of panicked decisions that maybe aren't the best.  It kind of sounds like that's what's going on here?

 

Let's just say that I knew plenty of girls in my dorm freshman year who had older boyfriends back home, who they had started dating over the summer, and worked not great jobs, and who I'm sure were all perfectly lovely people.  And by Christmas, they had all been broken up with.

 

I don't know your daughter or her situation, but I don't think that I would panic yet, and I think I would be careful about making any rash movements that could turn this into a rebellion thing.  Keep an eye all you want, but I don't think I would talk to him at all, and I think I would avoid mentioning things to her.  She sounds very driven and like she knows what she wants, and I think it's likely that once she gets to college, and is surrounded by similarly driven people who she has more in common with, this guy will not be her long-term choice.

[jenn-]

Maybe instead of completely discouraging him to move, maybe you can ask that he wait until second semester so she has a chance to adjust to her school schedule.

[Sarah CB]

I agree with Wendy. She may end seriously resenting her parents interfering with her relationship with her boyfriend. I think I would have an open ended chat with her asking where she sees herself in a year, 5 years, etc. And then ask her how she sees their relationship going and let her mull it over.

 

I don't think I would ever approach him alone though bc that strikes me as overstepping. YMMV.

 

I don't want to cause her to get upset with us - mostly because I can see her fighting us if we give her something to fight against.  I'd rather not pick a fight and instead just ride this out, but that would be a lot easier if I knew that she would have time on her own.

 

I don't really see talking to him as overstepping - before he started dating dd he came to dh and asked for permission to date her.  There were quite a few aspects of relationships talked about during that conversation - most of them brought up by the young man.  Even at that point, the ym was talking about eventually going to where dd is going and dh said he wouldn't support that happening any time soon. Now, from what we're hearing, it sounds like the ym is going against what he and dh discussed in the first place, so I think a follow-up conversation is totally appropriate.  Especially considering dd won't be 18 until January.  It's not like we're talking about someone in her early 20's.  

[Aelwydd]

I don't want to cause her to get upset with us - mostly because I can see her fighting us if we give her something to fight against. I'd rather not pick a fight and instead just ride this out, but that would be a lot easier if I knew that she would have time on her own.

 

I don't really see talking to him as overstepping - before he started dating dd he came to dh and asked for permission to date her. There were quite a few aspects of relationships talked about during that conversation - most of them brought up by the young man. Even at that point, the ym was talking about eventually going to where dd is going and dh said he wouldn't support that happening any time soon. Now, from what we're hearing, it sounds like the ym is going against what he and dh discussed in the first place, so I think a follow-up conversation is totally appropriate. Especially considering dd won't be 18 until January. It's not like we're talking about someone in her early 20's.

I understand it seems perfectly reasonable to you. To her, it may come off as her parents bypassing her own judgment to drive away her boyfriend.

 

She will be thousands of miles away from you in a short period of time. Do you want to part with a potential betrayal of trust between you?

 

She is on the cusp of adulthood. My advice to you is you should treat her as an adult, let her handle her own relationship, and not potentially jettison your own right before she leaves the nest.

[Tammyla]

I would tread very carefully in this situation.  Good intentions can often spur immature people to take up a challenge in dating situations.  He is twenty-one and you and your dh really have no control of him.  Your effort might be better placed helping your dd settle in at her new school asap.

 

You mention he is seriously considering moving.  Does he have actual plans or is this more of summer love that burns very hot and then sizzles out come fall and real life. 

[happypamama]

There are worse things than arriving at college with a steady boyfriend -- she may be less immersed in a dating mindset and may actually focus on her studies more.

 

I would discuss healthy boundaries with her (whatever that means in your family) but otherwise leave it alone.

[Guest submarines]

You and DH want your DD to experience university without a boyfriend.

 

What does your DD want?

[ChristyB in TN]

Then don't say a word. Love him, love that she is seeing him, she will go to college and meet someone else...probably. If you let her know that you don't feel he measures up, she will try and prove you wrong. Ask me how I know....

[Kathryn]

I agree with NOT talking to him. I'd talk to DD and advise her to tell him NOT to move until after first semester. But, I wouldn't stock my nose in it any further, as much as I'd want to do so.

[DianeW88]

Stay out of it.  My dd had a boyfriend before she left for college that was aimless in that same way.  Perfectly nice, but older than her and not pursuing a college degree.  She went to school only an hour away from us.  After she got to school, she met real guys who had smarts and ambition.  She dumped old boyfriend after a year.  She is now about to be married (in three weeks) to an amazing young man.  Seriously, I couldn't have found anyone better if I'd handpicked him myself. :D 

 

Give her time to see what life is really about.  She will leave old boyfriend in the dust.  And the odds are that following her across the country will not happen.  In fact, I would say he has a 99% chance of not going anywhere.  Unless of course, you and your dh interfere.  Then the odds are pretty darn good that this relationship will continue on past its normal lifespan.  Stay out of it.  I can't say that enough.  It will die its own death.  Don't give it CPR.

[Guest]

The other thing is, if he really does follow her across the country it may bug *her*. When I was that age, I took a job in the city, moving away from a job where my boyfriend was. I think I was subconsciously trying to get some distance from him and when he would make it a point to stop by for lunch, it bugged me. It wouldn't shock me if she were to feel similarly. Like, internally, "You dope. Go away. Geez, how far to I have to go to get away from you?"

[Arcadia]

Dh and I would really like dd to have a great university experience and not be bogged down by a boyfriend.

My first degree is in engineering. All my ex-boyfriends and my hubby made sure I study hard, ate well, and see me safely back to my hostel/dorm room after the university's libraries are closed. Honestly, I have to credit all my engineering ex-bfs for keeping my grades up :)

Anyway all my ex-bfs are in happy marriages and stable jobs. Boyfriends does not equal "bog down".

[Joanne]

Your heart is in the right place; you want what is best for your dd. I'd have some concerns about his plans and his seeming lack of understanding of the realitly that life success is usually tied to hard work.

The problem is that what "is best" is she make and learn from life's mistakes. Your wanting to talk to him and arrange for her to be at University, without him in tow, is a developmentally inappropriate action on your part.

I'd talk to my dd that you noticed he's moving quickly. Inform her of what those risks could be. As if SHE feels comfortable with him following her, or it she wants YOU to intervene so she can go without him. If she declines, respect that she needs to grow up into being a woman, and all the mistakes that go with it.

 

 

[Laura Corin]

I can give you my father's experience.  My half sister starting going out with a bloke when she was sixteen who was in a dead end.  My sister is very bright and was working towards a place at Oxford.  My father stayed strictly out of it, knowing that if he said anything, my sister might throw up her studies and stay with him.  She went off to college, came back at Christmas and dumped him.  She had met her extremely suitable future husband in her first term at Oxford.

 

I would stay strictly out of it and let her work it out for herself.  Be a sympathetic ear if she asks for advice, but be very, very circumspect.

 

L

[trulycrabby]

Talking about moving is a lot easier than the actuality. Unless he has some money saved, he's just not going to be able to manage it. I think he is talking about moving as an avoidance tactic so they dont have to have an emotional "We'll never see each other again" discussion when she does leave. It's another way of saying "I'll call you."

 

I wouldn't say anything to him right now. 

[Melissa in Australia]

:coolgleamA:

[Hannah]

Then don't say a word. Love him, love that she is seeing him, she will go to college and meet someone else...probably. If you let her know that you don't feel he measures up, she will try and prove you wrong. Ask me how I know....

 

Yup, at 19 I too kept a relationship going with a most unsuitable boyfriend WELL past his sell-by date just to prove a point to my father. 

[ChristyB in TN]

When my oldest went off to college we learned that most boyfriends/girlfriends are dumped during Thanksgiving break of the Freshman year. It is called the Turkey Drop. ;)

[FaithManor]

I like Joanne's take on this where if you say anything at all it's along the lines of "Honey, we want to reinforce and support what you want so we just want to make sure that you are okay with his timeline and do not feel pressured. We don't have an opinion, but if you feel any qualms and are worried about how to handle it, we are here for you and ready to help." Then morph that into a good discussion in general about dating safety on campus. You can frame it as unwanted attention from other guys, keeping your wits about you, the dangers of drinking and impaired decision making as it pertains to being taken advantage of, who to call when your scared, etc. Every student, male or female, needs to have a solid safety talk with mum and dad before going to college, one in which you reiterate your undying love and support, and in which you make it known that you are only a phone call away. The conversation doesn't have to have any focus at all on how YOU feel about boyfriend and everything can be framed as preparing her on safety and security issues. It could even end with "what to do if you atm card is stolen, your purse, your checkbook, if you car looks tampered with, or you think your roommate is rifling through your things" etc. My parents were rather naïve about this and never talked about it all. So, when I had some stalkerish - though it didn't turn out to be super scary - unwanted attention from a guy on campus, I wasn't sure what to do. Fortunately, I mentioned it in passing during a study group and my music theory professor just happened to have been invited to stop by and help us get started on a particularly difficult assignment. His eyebrows went straight up, the veins stuck out in his neck, his brow furrowed, and he called security. He and two security officers went off together and talked and I NEVER had another problem with that young gentleman ever again. I don't know what fear he or security put into that person, but it worked. I was so grateful!!

 

So, you really should have a talk about this kind of thing no matter what because you want her to have a safety plan in place regardless of whether or not boyfriend follows or stays. We even talk about this stuff with our sons. They could be mugged, robbed, assaulted, who knows and we've met more than one girl who was mentally unstable - my nephew ended up with a restraining order against a former girlfriend. Every new, young adult needs help developing a safety plan.

[sparrow]

My dad and I were just talking about my first serious boyfriend yesterday.  Dad was relaying to me how my wise, late mother stopped him from interfering in my relationship with the loser.  "Give it time. Don't chase her to him. She'll come around."  It took more time than they hoped, but I eventually saw this guy for what he was. 

 

:grouphug: 

[goldberry]

I agree that she will see it for what it is....unless you interfere and push her the other way. Don't do it.

 

Side note....When I married my husband I was 19 and he was 25.  He had nothing, no plans, no ambition, etc.  If DD was interested in a guy like that, I would be crying my heart out.  Obviously, after 27 years, he grew into an awesome husband and provider, allowing me to stay home with my baby and then homeschool her.  You just never know!

[AmyontheFarm]

My dd has been in a long distance relationship for over 1 year.  They talk every.single.night for one hour.   It kills me that she is wasting time.  Seriously, I'm going to  build up scars on my tongue from biting it so often.  Every time she complains to me about his mother, I'm thinking, do you realize that she could be your mother-in-law someday, if you don't break up with the cute twit?

[Miss Marple]

Haven't read the other responses, but just wanted to throw this out there.  Your daughter will be in a whole new world very soon.  New friends, new church, new experiences every day.  You may find that she puts the brakes on the relationship herself.  She will be around young men who *do* have plans for their future, who are looking to work hard in order to make it in this world (rather than a "strike it rich with little effort" scenario).  She will also see the effort it takes to be successful in an engineering program and have little time for this new boyfriend.

 

The other thing that may happen is that this young man may end up getting a plan - very quickly! :)

 

I would hesitate to discuss anything serious with the fella because it adds validity to the situation.  IOW, he may feel more serious about the relationship after the talk.  If it were me, I would just casually talk about the time commitment to do well in engineering and how your daughter is going to be so, so, so busy!  And how she will need to keep up her grades for scholarships, etc.  If she is living in the dorms that would be another aspect to bring out - making new friends, etc.  I think this young man may be scared to see your daughter leave knowing that she will be meeting and making new friends.  That is probably scary for him - so be gentle :)

[Jenny in Florida]

My 18-year-old daughter and I had the same reaction to reading your post: It doesn't seem appropriate for you to get so involved in your daughter's relationship. She is clearly a smart girl, who will figure out what is and isn't working for her. I don't think parents should impose their own visions of the "ideal college experience" on a young adult.

 

Look, it's not at all unusual for kids who have been dating during high school to have to negotiate this kind of transition and to have to decide whether to try the long-distance thing or to put the relationship with the guy or girl back home on hold. Most of those relationships don't last beyond Thanksgiving break of freshman year, from what I read. However, in your daughter's case, this is a man she has known for a decade. They clearly have much more invested in their relationship than a pair of teens who date casually for a few months.

 

I vote you gently express your concerns -- once -- to your daughter only, make it clear you will support whatever decisions she makes now and in the coming months, and then stand back and let nature take its course. I suspect trying to exert any more control on this situation that that is more likely to backfire than to achieve what you hope it would.

[Liz CA]

Don't fret too much.

1. He has not moved yet

2. Do you know if he is "without a goal?"

3. University and Distance often change things

4. Even if he moved there, it does not mean they will be married the next day.

5. I would just support at this point and not express an opinion unless asked.

 

For what it's worth, I've been in a similar situation with ds and his girl-friend. The whole thing is over now.

[Halftime Hope]

I'm gong to throw something out here that I'm not sure anyone has mentioned. 

 

Young women who value "good character traits" may often have more difficulty breaking up with a guy--especially if there is a time investment--as compared with someone who is very selfish or mean.  They may think it is disloyal, or unkind, or they may even feel confused if he is saying that he really feels like their relationship is a gift from God.   This kind of a situation is very, very difficult for parents, because we have to be able to give our daughters the space they need as competent young women, while showing them that their application of those character traits isn't necessarily correct.

 

At one point, we had a discussion with dd asking her if she felt entirely at peace with a situation, and just who had given the young man the right to be planning her future? If she had, and she was comfortable with that, OK, but if not, she might consider putting some appropriate boundaries in place.   It was a difficult 6 months, but she came through it, and she won't be manipulated that way again. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Murphy101]

I wouldn't discuss any of this with him. This is between him and your daughter, not you.

 

What does your daughter want to do and what are her expectations of college? I'd make any discussion about her, not him.

 

I'd start there.

[Lisa R.]

Then don't say a word. Love him, love that she is seeing him, she will go to college and meet someone else...probably. If you let her know that you don't feel he measures up, she will try and prove you wrong. Ask me how I know....

Ok, can I ask? How do you know? Can you explain the psychology behind this because I just don't understand. In all sincerity, I would like to understand a young person's thinking here because it is impossible for me to relate to this. Why would she want to "prove you wrong"? It seems like you're saying (someone correct me if I'm wrong) show care toward boyfriend and dd will eventually come to her senses. 

 

I hear over and again that we shouldn't interfere if we don't approve of a son or daughter's girlfriend/boyfriend. What are we supposed to do? Nothing? Most posters here say, "Don't worry. They'll break up." What if they don't? What if they come back later and say, "Why didn't you say something?" 

 

It just seems like parents are "D**med if they do and d**med if they don't".

[Danestress]

It just seems like parents are "D**med if they do and d**med if they don't".

Yep. That pretty much sums up parenting adults! You often end up blessed too, regardless of your mistakes.

 

I would have been absolutely beside myself if my son's high school girl friend had wanted to follow him to college. I don't know what I would do or say. I do think we have to trust our kids - boys or girls - to make decisions even when they seem to be mistakes. But I think kids this age are sometimes clueless about relationships. I would have talked to him as much as he was willing, but ultimately I do think its best err on the sides of being d@mned if you don't.

[Murphy101]

I think how damned you are is up to you.

 

If this guy is not a bad guy, then our discussion about her college decision would be about HER.

 

It doesn't matter if mom thinks she could do better for any reason going to a different college if it's not the college she wants to attend.

 

So I'd be asking her what degree she hopes to attain and what the rep in that field is for that college. Cost. Campus style. Do forth.

 

If I brought the bf into the discussion, it would be to ask the same questions about why he is attending there.

 

Other than being young and serious, what other causes for concern do you have about the man? Does he seem abusive in some manner?

 

Because otherwise my view about sons/daughters in law is that it's very much like when you have your own children. You have to love them on sight, welcome them as family, you don't get to pick them out, and they often are not anything like you thought they would be but that's usually okay.

 

There is nothing to be gained by getting between them and your child/future grandchildren to be lost. Even if you don't lose them, it can take decades to heal the rift. So be welcoming and supportive. If it works out, you'll be glad. If they don't work out, you didn't lose anything.

[katilac]

Ok, can I ask? How do you know? Can you explain the psychology behind this because I just don't understand. In all sincerity, I would like to understand a young person's thinking here because it is impossible for me to relate to this. Why would she want to "prove you wrong"? It seems like you're saying (someone correct me if I'm wrong) show care toward boyfriend and dd will eventually come to her senses. 

 

I hear over and again that we shouldn't interfere if we don't approve of a son or daughter's girlfriend/boyfriend. What are we supposed to do? Nothing? Most posters here say, "Don't worry. They'll break up." What if they don't? What if they come back later and say, "Why didn't you say something?" 

 

It just seems like parents are "D**med if they do and d**med if they don't".

The psychology of it is pretty simple and very common: few people like being told what to do, and many people are defensive when told they are wrong (especially about their personal life). This goes double for younger people who are just 'coming into their own' as far as making their own decisions.

 

One issue that I see is that at one point you are saying that you don't want her to have A boyfriend while starting off in college, but really it seems to be that you don't want her to have THIS boyfriend. Unless you tread very lightly, they are both going to see that, and it's going to double the chances of her digging in and defending him.

 

I wouldn't expect such a young man to definitely have a set plan for his life, so that would not bother me, and it's not like he can move across the country and get an apartment, etc, with zero planning. It takes time and money.

 

You can let your dd know that you realize the transition to college can be scary and confusing as well as fun and exciting, and that you are always available to talk. You can try to create time and comfortable 'space' for her to talk to you. If she brings up the boyfriend or plans she has with him, you can certainly react and give an opinion, while also acknowledging that it's really up to her. I think it's fine to bring up specific concerns, IF you can do so calmly and without cornering her or giving ultimatums. I might begin with, "I wouldn't feel right if I didn't say this, dd. You don't have to respond or discuss it if you don't want to, but please listen and take it into consideration."

 

If you do choose to address this boyfriend in particular (rather than ANY boyfriend), make sure to balance the concerns with as much praise as you can muster. He seems to genuinely care about you, he seems to have ambition, etc.

 

In all honesty, I probably would saying nothing beyond "I'm here if you want to talk," simply because I don't see how he could pull up stakes and follow her very quickly. If he does? Well, he does have planning skills after all, lol.

[AHASRADA]

My parents took the "hands-off" approach in this regard, and I am so grateful to them.

 

Many, if not most parents, would have a flying fit if their not-quite 18 yo dd told them she intended to marry a 21 yo man who is on a student visa, has little money, no job training, and barely speaks any English.

 

While I know their stomachs and hearts were in knots, they also knew they couldn't stop me, so the best thing to do was support me. They paid for our wedding, let us live with them so we could both finish college, and grew to love him.

 

Nearly 22 years later, I can look back with no regrets knowing my marriage was the best decision of my life, setting me on a course of stability, happiness and fulfillment (not to mention globe trotting I likely would not have experienced if I'd married a "hometown boy").

 

You just never know how things will turn out. Offer kind, compassionate and respectful advice, and let her figure out her own life. You don't want to be responsible for any "what-if" regrets she may have down the road.