Jump to content

Menu
Giving You and Your Child a Road Map to the Best Possible Education
The Well-Trained Mind Community

Oh look. Another kerfluffle involving Ken Ham.

ThisIsTheDay

By ThisIsTheDay,
in The Chat Board

 Share

Recommended Posts

Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast

Posted
Posted

I really don't think people trying to create schisms and division within the homeschool community are doing us any favors.I don't want to use AiG materials, that doesn't make me bad and it doesn't make anyone else bad who doesn't want to use similarly themed materials.

 

At some point it just seems like he is trying to make a larger market for his materials with this Professor Harold Hill-esque style of hysterical finger pointing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SarahW

SarahW

Posted
Posted

Weird. I can't find anywhere in John's blogpost that he actually uses the term "Pope Ham." He says "Mr. Ham" is like a Pope. Surely Mr. Ham knows what a simile is.

 

Now, the science curriculum on origins is clearly anti-evolution, but that still doesn’t indicate that Sonlight holds to a young earth. It seems like Holzmann wouldn’t agree with our stand that old-earth creationism is in error....But I have grave doubts he takes the biblical young earth stand as we do at AiG—or at least he does not see the issue as a serious one regarding biblical authority as we show people.

 

Wasn't that what John was talking about?

 

Needle, meet point.

 

 

Actually, if one has to go to so much trouble making such statements as Mr. Holzmann did in this blog...

 

He claims to know John far better than I do, so I find this sentence very odd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Pawz4me

Pawz4me

Posted
Posted

Weird. I can't find anywhere in John's blogpost that he actually uses the term "Pope Ham." He says "Mr. Ham" is like a Pope. Surely Mr. Ham knows what a simile is.

 

It's near the bottom, in the last full paragraph. Copying directly from the blog, the paragraph reads in full:

 

You must never suggest that you "merely" believe in young-earth creationism. You must adamantly assert that young-earth creationism is true: THE truth. Indeed, you will have gone too far over to "the other side" if you even contemplate the idea that those with whom you disagree might have some potentially good reasons to view the Bible from a perspective different from yours, because--so Pope Ham has decreed--anyone who holds a view different from yours (i.e., different from Ham's) is, simply, wrong, "compromising," "in error." End of discussion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Erin

Erin

Posted
Posted

That IS true, though...That he thinks YE is the truth.

We attended Ham's Teach Them Diligently conference this spring (fantastic conference, but then, we skipped all the Ken Ham stuff so that didn't figure in to my opinion one way or the other).

My kids did the kids' program and Buck said they were told that to support old earth or evolution is sinful. Because that stuff is a lie, and lying is a sin.

 

Fortunately, they'd been coached to just smile and nod whenever they heard anything over the top. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
FaithManor

FaithManor

Posted
Posted

Well, it looks like that time of year again, that time when we pull out the rum, make some cupcakes, don a kilt, and watch the train wreck.

 

Boxing night at the "Who is the real Christian" ring and in this corner, weighing in at ....................

 

Cringe, why oh why oh why.......

 

Faith

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Reflections

Reflections

Posted
Posted

Well, it looks like that time of year again, that time when we pull out the rum, make some cupcakes, don a kilt, and watch the train wreck.

 

Boxing night at the "Who is the real Christian" ring and in this corner, weighing in at ....................

 

Cringe, why oh why oh why.......

 

Faith

 

I'm actually making carrot cake cupcakes with orange cream frosting tonight...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seasider

Seasider

Posted
Posted

Why? Because it's time to buy curriculum for next year! And each one wants to be the one chosen, the one who collects all the curriculum cash, to the point of trying to make consumers feel like heretics should their monies flow in the wrong direction. We should not be surprised that it's become an annual event.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SarahW

SarahW

Posted
Posted

 

It's near the bottom, in the last full paragraph. Copying directly from the blog, the paragraph reads in full:

 

Ah, yes, I see it.

 

In context, it still looks analogical.

 

I'm not certain, from Ham's response, that being called "pope" is what he objects to.

 

 

Ken Ham is a deadset wanker.

 

I have to like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Halftime Hope

Halftime Hope

Posted
Posted

Ken Ham is a deadset wanker.

 

 

Really? What are we, in 3rd grade?

 

While I did not care for KH's conduct in the prior kerfuffle, I think he did, in this response, clearly outline what he perceives are the differences in his (and AiG's) philosophy and why it matters to him (them).

 

Yes, he exactly made JH's point, but JH is the one who picked what to an old-school, elderly protestant evangelical is probably a highly unflattering comparison. I think it is fair to say that JH engaged in name-calling, and KH responded by carefully sticking to his argument because he considers the principle an important one.

 

So the fact that KH engaged and outlined his position in the argument provokes you to engage in name-calling?? Try a thesaurus instead, OK?

 

dogmatic might be appropriate adjective, this time around

Link to comment
Share on other sites
marbel

marbel

Posted
Posted

Christians talking about other Christians this way isn't very... Christian.

 

I don't like and don't use any AIG materials. I don't go to conferences at which AIG is represented. But I'm not going to write insulting things about the guy either. Isn't it enough just to disagree and then ignore?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

Posted
Posted

Really? What are we, in 3rd grade? You said "wanker" in 3rd grade?

 

 

So the fact that KH engaged and outlined his position in the argument provokes you to engage in name-calling?? Try a thesaurus instead, OK? Well now. That was shitty.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Halftime Hope

Halftime Hope

Posted
Posted

No, KK, I didn't use that word in third grade, in fact had to go use an online dictionary *just now* to find out what the word meant. But it's a childish comment.

 

You read the thesaurus comment as being disparaging--I didn't mean it that way. I often use the thesaurus to help me identify the word(s) that really mean(s) what I want to say.

 

My only concern with my other post is that I've just maligned third graders. Sigh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
*Lulu*

*Lulu*

Posted
Posted

 

 

Really? What are we, in 3rd grade?

 

 

 

Well, I taught 3rd grade today. Does that count?

 

It actually is a little more like HS or even college. Do you remember that one really nasty know-it-all that went out of his way to make those around him feel like crap for not finding his OPINION to be wonderful?

 

I do.

 

I also recall my friends and I remarking amongst ourselves what an incredible jack hole he was.

 

I took the wanker comment in that vein. Off the cuff cheek inspired by the craptastic behavior of a serial commiter of jerky behavior.

 

When someone routinely lets thier alligator mouth overload thier canary brain, people will notice.

 

And comment.

 

Sometimes it will be true.

 

Sometimes it will be funny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Halftime Hope

Halftime Hope

Posted
Posted

 

 

Well, I taught 3rd grade today. Does that count?

 

It actually is a little more like HS or even college. Do you remember that one really nasty know-it-all that went out of his way to make those around him feel like crap for not finding his OPINION to be wonderful?

 

I do.

 

I also recall my friends and I remarking amongst ourselves what an incredible jack hole he was.

 

I took the wanker comment in that vein. Off the cuff cheek inspired by the craptastic behavior of a serial commiter of jerky behavior.

 

When someone routinely lets thier aligator mouth overload thier canary brain, people will notice.

 

And comment.

 

Sometimes it will be true.

 

Sometimes it will be funny.

 

Yeah, but see, it's HIS blog. He can clarify or hammer home his point if he wants to, and that's not "craptastic" or "jerky" behavior, nor is it if this particular post were somewhere else.

 

And from careful reading this blog post, I'd say he's making progress. He didn't disparage or name call or malign anyone. : )

 

I can't believe I'm defending him after his behavior during the kerfuffle, but I think people want to paint this instance with the same brush, and that's not fair. I'm hoping that what I'm seeing is that he learned something and is exercising some wisdom.

 

I'm trying to listen hard (read carefully), seek first to understand.

 

ETA: editing myself....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nmoira

nmoira

Posted
Posted

I'm Australian.

 

Deadset wanker means f-ing idiot.

 

You can add THAT to your thesaurus.

 

 

Stop this right now. You know I have no likes left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
awisha.

awisha.

Posted
Posted

 

 

No thanks. I'm on my way to find the brain bleach. : ) The Aussie definitions that I came across first were, ahem, more precise. LOL

 

 

Yep, the word wanker by itself is rather... interesting. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jennifer3141

Jennifer3141

Posted
Posted

 

Cringe, why oh why oh why.......

 

Faith

 

 

I have no idea but when/if Jesus ever does come back, I hope he returns and joins in on a few of these battles. I want to see someone once and for all definitively win this war!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dana

Dana

Posted
Posted

 

 

I have no idea but when/if Jesus ever does come back, I hope he returns and joins in on a few of these battles. I want to see someone once and for all definitively win this war!!!

 

 

South Park the Movie had an interesting take :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mergath

Mergath

Posted
Posted

Really? What are we, in 3rd grade?

 

While I did not care for KH's conduct in the prior kerfuffle, I think he did, in this response, clearly outline what he perceives are the differences in his (and AiG's) philosophy and why it matters to him (them).

 

Yes, he exactly made JH's point, but JH is the one who picked what to an old-school, elderly protestant evangelical is probably a highly unflattering comparison. I think it is fair to say that JH engaged in name-calling, and KH responded by carefully sticking to his argument because he considers the principle an important one.

 

So the fact that KH engaged and outlined his position in the argument provokes you to engage in name-calling?? Try a thesaurus instead, OK?

 

dogmatic might be appropriate adjective, this time around

 

 

Mmmm... no. Sorry. He's definitely a wanker.

 

Oh, hold on. He's a dogmatic wanker.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mergath

Mergath

Posted
Posted

I think it's pretty obvious he's trying to get a bigger piece of the hsing pie. I mean, he so conveniently plugs his own products at the end of the post. Controversy equals profits. He probably cried like a little girl, he was so happy when he saw that John Holzmann referred to him as Pope Ham.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WishboneDawn

WishboneDawn

Posted
Posted

 

 

Really? What are we, in 3rd grade?

 

While I did not care for KH's conduct in the prior kerfuffle, I think he did, in this response, clearly outline what he perceives are the differences in his (and AiG's) philosophy and why it matters to him (them).

 

Yes, he exactly made JH's point, but JH is the one who picked what to an old-school, elderly protestant evangelical is probably a highly unflattering comparison. I think it is fair to say that JH engaged in name-calling, and KH responded by carefully sticking to his argument because he considers the principle an important one.

 

So the fact that KH engaged and outlined his position in the argument provokes you to engage in name-calling?? Try a thesaurus instead, OK?

 

dogmatic might be appropriate adjective, this time around

 

 

I think JH's use of Pope Hamm was fair. It called attention to the role Hamm increasingly seems to be playing these days, it provokes Hamm so that he will engage in the debate and it makes JH's writing more interesting to the reader.

 

But yeah, I don't much care for the names tossed at KH here. Not because I disagree with the assessment but because they've helped turn another thread with potential into a trainwreck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Erin

Erin

Posted
Posted
I don't like and don't use any AIG materials. I don't go to conferences at which AIG is represented. But I'm not going to write insulting things about the guy either. Isn't it enough just to disagree and then ignore?

Since I was the only one to mention conferences, I have to assume this was directed at me. In which case, I would point out that --

1. the conference had about 90 other vendors represented, as well as AiG.

2. I didn't have a clue who KH even was until about a month after I registered. (We went to see Voddie Bachum, Heidi St. John, and my favoritest; Debra Bell). And conferences with big-name speakers are few and far between in my neck of the woods. You takes what you gets.

3. I found it a bit annoying to hear my 13 year old telling me he was called a sinner because he understands science. :rolleyes:

 

 

That said, in addition to wanker and poof, I also know what a "gob" is! (Or is that just Irish and didn't make it to Australia? I get my British holdings confused...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
awisha.

awisha.

Posted
Posted

[/size][/font][/color]

Since I was the only one to mention conferences, I have to assume this was directed at me. In which case, I would point out that --

1. the conference had about 90 other vendors represented, as well as AiG.

2. I didn't have a clue who KH even was until about a month after I registered. (We went to see Voddie Bachum, Heidi St. John, and my favoritest; Debra Bell). And conferences with big-name speakers are few and far between in my neck of the woods. You takes what you gets. [/8size]

3. I found it a bit annoying to hear my 13 year old telling me he was called a sinner because he understands science. :rolleyes:

 

 

That said, in addition to wanker and poof, I also know what a "gob" is! (Or is that just Irish and didn't make it to Australia? I get my British holdings confused...)

 

*snort* gob is mouth here in Oz. Continue the naughty line of thought to work out what gobbie is lmao

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Audrey

Audrey

Posted
Posted

Well, it looks like that time of year again, that time when we pull out the rum, make some cupcakes, don a kilt, and watch the train wreck.

 

Boxing night at the "Who is the real Christian" ring and in this corner, weighing in at ....................

 

Cringe, why oh why oh why.......

 

Faith

 

Why? I do not know. I do know, however, that this kind of bickering really does wonders for pushing people to the non-believers side of the scale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WishboneDawn

WishboneDawn

Posted
Posted

 

Why? I do not know. I do know, however, that this kind of bickering really does wonders for pushing people to the non-believers side of the scale.

Pfft. This kind of bickering goes on in any group that includes humans. Who is a real American? Woman? Star Wars fan? It's simply that Christians have been at it a bit longer then many.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
marbel

marbel

Posted
Posted

Since I was the only one to mention conferences, I have to assume this was directed at me. In which case, I would point out that --

1. the conference had about 90 other vendors represented, as well as AiG.

2. I didn't have a clue who KH even was until about a month after I registered. (We went to see Voddie Bachum, Heidi St. John, and my favoritest; Debra Bell). And conferences with big-name speakers are few and far between in my neck of the woods. You takes what you gets.

3. I found it a bit annoying to hear my 13 year old telling me he was called a sinner because he understands science. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

Nope, not at all directed at you.  I was just expressing dismay over all the mockery, especially by Christians.  And expressing my own dislike of Ken Ham's materials, such that I don't even bother to attend conferences where he is presenting.  Nothing personal to you at all, but I'm sorry I made you feel that you had to defend your attendance at a conference.  Hope it was good otherwise.

 

ETA:  I'm posting using my kindle (firefox is not working on this site for me today), so, apologies that the quoting didn't come out quite right.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Reflections

Reflections

Posted
Posted

The cupcake recipe *could* be posted right here in this thread. Just sayin........

Okay.  Here you go.  BUT know that I am a fly by the seat of my pants kind of baker/cook.  My measurement are guidelines - loose guidelines and that it really is to taste and whether or not you need more moisture or not.  And this time because I'm tired, I used a cake mix from the store, but I've done it with my own butter/yellow cake recipe as well.  Oh, and I am not a fan of nuts in my cakes, but you may like that...so, you know, add them if you want. :)  And the other variable I can't control, is the amount of "help" I get from my 3yo.  Measuring is a challenge when your ds3 is hanging on your back and asking to put the next ingredient in.  He's also my taste tester.

 

Carrot Cake with Orange Cream Frosting

 

Cake

1 Box yellow cake mix

3 Eggs

One stick (1/2 Cup) of butter - melted

Zest and Juice of 1 orange

1 Cup water

2 tsp pumpkin pie spice

2 cups shredded carrots

¾ Cup raisins

 

Frosting:

1 stick of butter ( ½ cup)

4oz Cream cheese

Sour cream

Zest of two oranges

1 tsp Orange extract

Juice from the orange

4 – 5 cups confectioners sugar

 

Put all of the cake ingredients into the mixer except the carrot and raisins and mix until blended.  Then put in the carrots and raisins and blend again. Add more zest or pumpkin pie spice to taste. I've also added more cinnamon but I didn't today. 

Pour into cake pan, or lined muffin tins.  Bake for about 20 minutes at 350, or until a fork/knife comes out clean.

Let cool before frosting.

 

Frosting

Cream butter and cream cheese together until smooth.  Add the zest and orange extract and a teaspoon or so of the orange juice and blend again.  Then add the confectione’sr sugar and beat until smooth.  At this point add sour cream or orange juice for more moisture if needed – or add more confectioner’s sugar if too much moisture.  Add more zest or orange extract if you want.  *Oh and if you want/need more frosting just double everything - I've found that you need less frosting when making cupcakes than when you frost a cake.

 

Hope someone enjoys it.  Let me know!  I'd make it for you all, but you all live too far away!

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Erin

Erin

Posted
Posted

And expressing my own dislike of Ken Ham's materials, such that I don't even bother to attend conferences where he is presenting

That's really unfortunate! Teach Them Diligently, as an example, had hundreds of other workshops that Ham had nothing to do with. We went to the first night's presentation, just to see what the hoopla was about. But other than that, I never would have known he was even there, much less involved...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...