Seriously Paula Deen?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

There is a tremendous difference - yes, but if you read my post, you'd see that I said blacks AND whites. " It is also because there are largely different classes of blacks AND whites in the south compared to other places..."

 

Geez I hate when people pick and choose what they want to take from a post.

 

We are talking about racism, and the attitudes of white people toward other white people do not apply. You stated that attitudes in the south (with regard to racism, since that is the topic at hand) are different because "there are largely different classes of blacks AND whites in the south compared to other places, and sometimes it is difficult not to be frustrated with the behaviors and attitudes."

 

If you'd like to talk about how white people in the south treat other white people, we can talk about classism (or sexism, or any of the other isms that might apply). Those are entirely different animals. In terms of racism, your statement sounds like this: "Racism is more common here because there is a different class of black person in the south, and it is hard for us southerners not to be frustrated with the behaviors and attitudes." That is what I'm hearing. Please, feel free to clarify your meaning. I'd like to understand better.

[I.Dup.]

How is it different to hire people based on their skin color than it is to hire attractive girls to parade around in no clothing for men's enjoyment? Yet nobody is horrified at that.

 

I'm not saying what she did isn't racist, just trying to understand where the horror is coming from. Women have been persecuted, used, and abused since the beginning of time and yet it's still perfectly fine to continue to use and objectify them. I guess I don't see this as all that different from that. :confused1:

[Slartibartfast]

How is it different to hire people based on their skin color than it is to hire attractive girls to parade around in no clothing for men's enjoyment? Yet nobody is horrified at that.

 

I'm not saying what she did isn't racist, just trying to understand where the horror is coming from. Women have been persecuted, used, and abused since the beginning of time and yet it's still perfectly fine to continue to use and objectify them. I guess I don't see this as all that different from that. :confused1:

 

Yes, she did also not seem to mind the pornography too much, I think people in this thread seemed to object to it.

[Mrs Mungo]

How is it different to hire people based on their skin color than it is to hire attractive girls to parade around in no clothing for men's enjoyment? Yet nobody is horrified at that.

 

I'm not saying what she did isn't racist, just trying to understand where the horror is coming from. Women have been persecuted, used, and abused since the beginning of time and yet it's still perfectly fine to continue to use and objectify them. I guess I don't see this as all that different from that. :confused1:

 

I think there are some pretty fine lines when you consider things from a legal standpoint.

 

For example, Undercover Boss did an episode with the CEO of Hooter's. I think he wanted to show that they treated the women well, it was a family environment, the women were well paid, etc. But, it ran into problems from the get-go. In the restaurant they visited the manager was doing things like making the girls have messy eating contests to see who got the best shifts. He was mad, oh, he was incredibly mad. That is the stuff the hostile work environment lawsuits are made of.

 

But, from my POV, this sort of thing is inevitable when you objectify anyone to the point they are merely an accessory or decoration and not a person. So, if you are asking *me*? I don't eat at Hooter's or anywhere like that (as in, I *never* have). I think those places are as sexist as PD's ideas are racist.

 

If you are asking the difference from a legal standpoint? The lawsuit isn't about who they did or did not hire. She didn't hire all black men because she knew the media (and public) would find it racist, not because it wasn't legal. The discussion has been brought up because it is relevant to proving a pattern of racist and sexist behavior that created a hostile work environment.

[elegantlion]

A few more interesting bits in this article:

 

http://www.npr.org/b...mpaign=20130620

 

I'd missed all the pornography the first time around...

 

:huh: :cursing: :ohmy: :thumbdown: :banghead:

 

"When the butter hits the pan", I'm adopting that as my new phrase. :coolgleamA:

[dakarimom5]

I have so much to say about this. First racism is wrong, I have thrown family members out of my house for that nonsense. But I wonder if it could be a case of either how Paula was raised or a mental thing going on. My reason for this is when my grandmother would talk about segregation to me when I was young, she would always speak with a sense of bewilderment. She never understood why they wanted to mix the races when they already had their own schools,etc. She is Italian and only was permitted to associate with other Italians growing up. She saw it not as being better than anyone but staying with her people, if that makes sense. She never could understand my explanations.

 

The other thing is when her Alzheimer's started she would revert back to the old times, sometimes making inappropriate comments that to her were not offensive. I also want to point out that we live in the south and I don't know anyone who would want that kind of wedding.

[StaceyinLA]

We are talking about racism, and the attitudes of white people toward other white people does not apply. You stated that attitudes in the south (with regard to racism, since that is the topic at hand) are different because "there are largely different classes of blacks AND whites in the south compared to other places, and sometimes it is difficult not to be frustrated with the behaviors and attitudes."

 

If you'd like to talk about how white people in the south treat other white people, we can talk about classism (or sexism, or any of the other isms that might apply). Those are entirely different animals. In terms of racism, your statement sounds like this: "Racism is more common here because there is a different class of black person in the south, and it is hard for us southerners not to be frustrated with the behaviors and attitudes." That is what I'm hearing. Please, feel free to clarify your meaning. I'd like to understand better.

 

 

No need to clarify my meaning. You've pretty much summed up the way you'd like to interpret it. So if you want to make it strictly about blacks, even though I have stated the behaviors are also common in the whites, you go ahead. Either way, if you've never lived in the deep south, I don't think you can begin to understand.

 

I mean maybe a lot of it is classism, but it is these classes of blacks and whites that are prevalent in our area, and that DOES cause people to have poor attitudes toward them whether right or wrong.

 

With regards to racism, it goes both ways?

[LucyStoner]

How is it different to hire people based on their skin color than it is to hire attractive girls to parade around in no clothing for men's enjoyment? Yet nobody is horrified at that.

 

 

Who says "no one" is horrified by that? I consider myself a feminist and feminism has long had many groups of folks highly critical of porn. I might not go as far as Andrea Dworkin but I am far from ok with the exploitation and trafficking that keeps strip clubs open. That said, these industries are considered constitutionally protected freedom of speech.

 

How exactly does the existence and legality of the adult entertainment industry make racial discrimination or sexual harassment (both at issue in the suit) somehow not a problem?

[*Lulu*]

 

 

 

No need to clarify my meaning. You've pretty much summed up the way you'd like to interpret it. So if you want to make it strictly about blacks, even though I have stated the behaviors are also common in the whites, you go ahead. Either way, if you've never lived in the deep south, I don't think you can begin to understand.

 

Oh, and with regard to racism, can we talk about how blacks treat whites in my area as well? Do you not think this goes both ways?

 

 

Look I have spent my entire life living in Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Louisiana, and I thought I understood where you were coming from in your first post.

 

The last two posts though seem to be going in a different direction than I thought you meant.

 

Could you please clarify?

[StaceyinLA]

Look I have spent my entire life living in Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, and Louisiana, and I thought I understood where you were coming from in your first post.

 

The last two posts though seem to be going in a different direction than I thought you meant.

 

Could you please clarify?

 

 

I'm really not sure what needs to be more clear. I believe that the attitudes/prejudices in the deep south are often attributed to the behaviors of certain classes and groups of blacks AND whites in our area. Maybe it is classism more than racism, but I DO think the prejudices here stem from the differences in attitudes and behaviors as opposed to those in other areas of the country.

 

I am not excusing it; just saying I think this might be an explanation as to why it is still more of a prevalent thing here.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

No need to clarify my meaning. You've pretty much summed up the way you'd like to interpret it. So if you want to make it strictly about blacks, even though I have stated the behaviors are also common in the whites, you go ahead. Either way, if you've never lived in the deep south, I don't think you can begin to understand.

 

Oh, and with regard to racism, can we talk about how blacks treat whites in my area as well? Do you not think this goes both ways?

 

But...this thread is about how a white employer and celebrity views black people/employees, and the discussion was about how white people in the south view black people. So I don't understand what you're saying when you say that the behavior that people have a problem with is displayed both black people and white people. That's not at the root of racist speech. I'm interpreting your post as I am because your response doesn't make sense to me and you won't explain further :confused1:

 

And yes, black people can be ugly to white people as well. It's not unique to your area, and it's not a valid reason for racism. White people are ugly to other white people all the time too. I see it plenty here. My DH is Latino, and we've been the targets of nastiness from both white people and Latinos, but I don't just register the nastiness from the Latinos. My dad complains about women drivers, and I get cut off and tailgated all the time by men. But all he SEES are the women.

 

If you won't continue a civil discussion though, your current comments are going to stand as they appear to be, and if you're OK with that, then I guess I am too.

[StaceyinLA]

But...this thread is about how a white employer and celebrity views black people/employees, and the discussion was about how white people in the south view black people. So I don't understand what you're saying when you say that the behavior that people have a problem with is displayed both black people and white people. That's not at the root of racist speech. I'm interpreting your post as I am because your response doesn't make sense to me and you won't explain further :confused1:

 

And yes, black people can be ugly to white people as well. It's not unique to your area, and it's not a valid reason for racism. White people are ugly to other white people all the time too. I see it plenty here. My DH is Latino, and we've been the targets of nastiness from both white people and Latinos, but I don't just register the nastiness from the Latinos. My dad complains about women drivers, and I get cut off and tailgated all the time by men. But all he SEES are the women.

 

If you won't continue a civil discussion though, your current comments are going to stand as they appear to be, and if you're OK with that, than I guess I am too.

 

 

I just don't really get what you don't understand. Tell me what you think I need to embellish.

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, even now, a majority of the waitstaff at Corky's is AA- but you know what? That's the case in just about every non-family owned/family worked restaurant in Memphis, because that's a majority of the workforce. I don't think it's intended as part of a theme at Corky's anymore than it is at Macaroni Grill or Cracker Barrel.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

 

I'm really not sure what needs to be more clear. I believe that the attitudes/prejudices in the deep south are often attributed to the behaviors of certain classes and groups of blacks AND whites in our area. Maybe it is classism more than racism, but I DO think the prejudices here stem from the differences in attitudes and behaviors as opposed to those in other areas of the country.

 

I am not excusing it; just saying I think this might be an explanation for why it is still more of a prevalent thing here.

 

 

Okay then.

 

I think what you are describing is classism and is IME more prevalent in the south than just racism.

 

But let's be honest with ourselves, there is an element of racism tied up in it as well. It isn't the in-your-face racism that refused to serve blacks at an all whites lunch counter, but it is still racism. I would go so far as to say that classism, in the south, often serves as a foil for those who are racist to spew thier hate without appearing hateful.

 

I also think there absolutely are blacks who are prejudiced against other races. The big difference, when talking about racism, is that whites have never, as a race, been subjected to systematic, institutional discrimination in this country.

 

It doesn't excuse prejudice from any one, but it is an important consideration in the larger conversation about race relations in America.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I just don't really get what you don't understand. Tell me what you think I need to embellish.

 

I don't understand how a set of behaviors that you're saying both white people and black exhibit, as I think you've said, explains how racism is more prevalent in the south. And if you're not talking specifically about racism in the south when you refer to attitudes that are "considerably different than the rest of the country," then what kinds of attitudes are you talking about, and how do they relate to this particular topic?

[Shahrazad]

I was going to write out a long reply but not sure if I should waste my breath. I have to say I'm pretty floored by the idea that ANYONE here would defend her comments when they were so clearly racist. Even if you aren't sure if one specific thing here or there was meant in that way, the whole of the comments make it quite clear. And the post implying that living around poor, trashy people of both races has made them use the 'N word' though they apply it to white people as well and that 'ignorance is bliss'....I'm just gonna assume I misunderstood your meaning there because that is just 360 degrees of messed up.

 

While I know people with this attitude are quite common in the South, I believe that the majority know that the 'n word' is mean and inappropriate to use, whether or not they use it. As a child, I lived in Alabama for quite a while and that is still where most of my mom's side of the family lives. Some of my family members are more toward the racist side in terms of that they think 'stereotypes exist for a reason'...ick and that when my mother dated a Black boy from school, she was told to break it off (in the 80s)...double ick. The only time I've ever heard of anyone from our large, extended family using the 'n word' was my grandfather's mother (from North Dakota or South Dakota, not sure which) at age 90-something asked my mother if she was 'still married to that N_____ (ie my father)'. I guess Karma is a witch for her since my grandfather has remarried an African-American woman (actually half African-American, half Native American) ;). The one time I used the term in the course of recounting something quoted in a news article (while expressing my own horror at the racism, ie saying 'people think racism is a thing of the past but it is alive and well and to many people, they still think along the lines of (insert quote from article which featured the n word), my mother slapped me so hard across the face just out of horror that I'd said the word (even as I was condemning it lol). She has that personality, she has even interrupted and told off her boyfriend's father when at dinner he made a racist joke and then left the table because she can't handle hearing that type of stuff. My point is, Paula Deen does not live under a rock. She knows it is mean, the only way she doesn't is if she thinks, in her mind, that it is a deserved and accurate title. She's not confined to smalltown, rural Georgia either. She is a celebrity chef who has traveled and had enough interaction with other people to have her horizons broadened.

 

I think her own testimony damns her in several instances. And the fact that she thinks that ' well I didn't say the n word in THIS situation because this is not what those black men were...they were professional and doing their job professionally (being profession playing the roles of slaves, I mean) ie if a Black person is not doing so, if he is not professional, if he is not doing a good job, if he is a slacker, if he is a stereotypical 'thug' or 'hood' guy, then it that case it would be acceptable to call him the 'n word'.

 

Ugh, ugh, ugh. I can only hope Food Network and that drug company of the diabetes medication drops her as their rep like a sack of hot potatoes.

[HRAAB]

There is a lot of racism where I live, just not direct towards blacks. We don't have a large black population. When I've seen someone called out on their racism, they always come back with that they're not being racist, it's the behavior that they object to (usually crime, drugs) even though the comments include racial stereotypes and slurs. However, I never hear the same comments when it's a white person involved in the same crimes., It seems their classism gives them a way to air their racism.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm really not sure what needs to be more clear. I believe that the attitudes/prejudices in the deep south are often attributed to the behaviors of certain classes and groups of blacks AND whites in our area. Maybe it is classism more than racism, but I DO think the prejudices here stem from the differences in attitudes and behaviors as opposed to those in other areas of the country.

 

I am not excusing it; just saying I think this might be an explanation as to why it is still more of a prevalent thing here.

 

I think it is the same all over, even in other countries. I don't think the South is a special case.

[Jenny in Florida]

Casting in entertainment is one of the only areas of employment where someone's appearance (from skin color to hair length) is considered a legal basis for hiring decisions. Nothing about this case falls into that category. The issue is not proving that any one person is a racist. It is if the person bringing the suit experienced a hostile working environment due to a pattern of racist and sexist jokes and materials in her working environment.

 

Exactly.

 

My daughter is currently working in entertainment. She attends countless auditions each year, and the first step in many is the "type out." Essentially, everyone who shows up to audition is lined up in rows, and the casting folks walk down the line saying, "Stay" or "Go" to each one of them, based entirely on physical appearance. If the audition is for young women to portray Ariel the Mermaid in a WDW theme park, then anyone who isn't within certain obvious parameters for height, build and coloring is sent home in the first two minutes. Only after that first step is anyone asked to sing or dance. And those who get past a certain point will have their facial features measured and matched against a specific set of guidelines. I heard last night about a young woman -- who has gone on to be a fairly successful TV performer -- who was turned down to play a character in the Disney parks because her eyes were set too far apart by .25 inches.

 

If it matters that a character be a certain gender, skin color, body type, height, whatever, then it is considered legit in entertainment to hire only performers who meet those criteria. (There is a movement, nonetheless, toward non-traditional casting when such things don't actually matter to the story. For example, our local Shakespeare theatre regularly casts folks of a variety of colors in roles that would traditionally be played by white actors. And they not-infrequently change the gender of a character simply by adjusting pronouns where appropriate.)

 

There are certain restaurant settings in which the servers are legally considered entertainers, specifically so that the company can get away with hiring people who have a certain "look." (Think dinner theatres like Medieval Times.) However, short of those kinds of fantasy or historical recreations, there's no defensible reason to hire only servers of a certain color (or height or gender or whatever). A restaurant server's job description has nothing to do with his or her skin color.

 

And let's just say that I, personally, would not want to go to a restaurant that was putting a whole lot of effort into recreating a historical setting in which it would be necessary to hire only black servers in order to evoke the right mood.

[LucyStoner]

 

 

I'm not defending her per se. I guess I just don't see the point in worrying about dumb crap she said.

 

Because this isn't about PD being or not being a racist. It's about whether or not her place of business was a hostile and discriminatory workplace for the plaintiff. The dumb crap she said to her employee is then naturally part of the evidence in the case.

[Caroline]

 

 

I'm not defending her per se. I guess I just don't see the point in worrying about dumb crap she said.

 

Because she is being accused of running a business that was a hostile place for black people to work. That is against the law. So yes, "dumb crap she said" is the point.

[LucyStoner]

I agree that racism is endemic far beyond the south.

[Mommy22alyns]

My local news has a ticker and it says she was a No Show on the Today Show today, apparently?

 

 

I happened to catch that too. I didn't hear what they said about it; they might be getting a teeny hint that her words were indefensible.

[*Lulu*]

 

 

But isn't this a comment filled with prejudice? Is it common in the south? Is it more common in the south than elsewhere? I don't know if it is, but if you make a statement like that, to me it is not much different than saying "black people commonly...XYZ". It seems rude to southerners. I'm only pointing this out because it is easy to say stuff without realizing how it might be understood by other people.

 

I'm not defending PD. I really could care less what she says about things. She cooks food on a cooking show. Since when does that make a person some sort of role model goddess?

 

It could be in some cases; in this case we are talking about a particular person whose upbringing happened in and business capitilizes on the South. That makes the culture of the South relevant. The rest of the post you quoted is talking about one preson's specific experience with the South and I took it as her sharing her particular experience not casting Southerners as worse than others.

[Mrs Mungo]

http://m.today.com/food/paula-deen-issues-apology-please-forgive-me-mistakes-6C10408932

[Shahrazad]

Hah. I swear when I was trying to proofread over my comment I thought to myself I'm missing something. I was responding to a specific comment that I felt was in a way allowing for an excuse of this is a common attitude in the South as if she is just a product of where she was raised but you're right and I agree that racism is not more common in the South than anywhere else though one might find this varies based on personal anecdotal experience to be the case. I've lived for many years in Alabama and Florida and for many in MA/NH I dealt with near constant prejudice in Florida, heard comments that were racist among family members in Alabama but was almost never treated rudely or disrespected publicly by people who disapproved of me out of politeness, heard openly racist comments and had someone try to rip a piece of clothing off of me once in Mass, and saw racism again first hand in parts of NH. It is definitely a problem everywhere and to confine it to the South is incorrect and an oversimplification. So, that was a misspeak on my behalf and not reflective of my actual opinion. I think it is much more complicated than that and that is why I don't buy as an excuse that it is because she is from there. I think the actual point I was trying to make is that because of the political happenings and civil rights movement in the South and the age of some of the older generation (my grandmother, for example, had a black caretaker they referred to as a 'mammy' and growing up a lot of things were socially acceptable where she lived that were not still socially acceptable in other parts of the nation) one might find these attitudes to be more freely voiced in some regions than others, particularly amongst the older generations. I'm trying to clarify here but I have a child repetitively asking for something over and over again in my ear right now so I need to go deal with him. Please excuse the mess of a paragraph.

[Firefly]

I do think racism exists everywhere, and is perhaps more subtle here in the north-- but my experience has been it is much more culturally acceptable in the south. MIL is from Louisiana and the way she and her side of the family talk sometimes is appalling-- and these people will deny they are racist! The first time I ever heard the N word used by an actual person in front of me was from her sister. When she saw the shocked look on my face she said, "Oh I'm sorry darlin', that's just the way we talk." :-O And growing up in different parts of the RI/CT area and later in various other countries, it's not like I was some sheltered kid that was never exposed to anything. Sadly, threads like these confirm this impression I have (with apologies to the many fine southern folks both here and in my personal life, who are NOT like this.)

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I do think racism exists everywhere, and is perhaps more subtle here in the north-- but my experience has been it is much more culturally acceptable in the south. MIL is from Louisiana and the way she and her side of the family talk sometimes is appalling-- and these people will deny they are racist! The first time I ever heard the N word used by an actual person in front of me was from her sister. When she saw the shocked look on my face she said, "Oh I'm sorry darlin', that's just the way we talk." :-O And growing up in different parts of the RI/CT area and later in various other countries, it's not like I was some sheltered kid that was never exposed to anything. Sadly, threads like these confirm this impression I have (with apologies to the many fine southern folks both here and in my personal life, who are NOT like this.)

 

 

I've been sort of thinking along these lines. I don't know enough southerners to know personally, but my family members who have relocated from the mid-Atlantic to the southern US (ironically, the most liberal members of the family) have been shocked at some of the things they've heard. By contrast, he only person I've ever heard in my life actually say the N word out loud (in a racist manner, I mean) was my grandfather, and he hated everyone *sigh* My mom and grandmothers are still fairly racist, but they know better than to speak that kind of filth in front of me. Of course, my mom still thinks it's OK to make mild comments about Hispanic people to me, which is bizarre considering how much she adores my husband :confused1: Again, it's that subtle, "Oh, I don't mean YOU!" kind of racism. But for the most part, I don't really hear overt racism very often at all.

[Stacia]

Haven't read the thread but just saw that Food Network is dropping her.

[elegantlion]

Haven't read the thread but just saw that Food Network is dropping her.

 

 

Her butter has all but melted I believe.

[Spy Car]

Hard to believe she wasn't fired for being a threat to public health, a long time ago.

 

Bill

[Caroline]

Hard to believe she wasn't fired for being a threat to public health, a long time ago.

 

Bill

 

On the Daily Show last night, Jessica Williams made a similar comment.

[Miss Peregrine]

Apparently she has been fired from Food Network.

One link.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20711370,00.html

 

Checking for more to be sure.

[Miss Peregrine]

Yep.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/22/dining/paula-deen-is-a-no-show-on-today.html

[TracyP]

Several years ago, I heard a radio conversation where several African Americans who had moved from the south to the north were being interviewed. They overwhelmingly agreed that the northerners were far more racist. They said that in the south you knew there were some racists (and those racists tended to be very nasty), but generally everyone was friendly, the kids played together, no big deal. In the north, everyone smiled and was polite and on the surface there was no racism. BUT nobody would play with their kids, nobody would invite them over to neighborhood get togethers. They ended up feeling more segregated than they had in the south. I don't know if this is the norm or just the experience of a select few.... I do know that living in MN and having family in AL, I could see this being the case.

[Firefly]

Several years ago, I heard a radio conversation where several African Americans who had moved from the south to the north were being interviewed. They overwhelmingly agreed that the northerners were far more racist. They said that in the south you knew there were some racists (and those racists tended to be very nasty), but generally everyone was friendly, the kids played together, no big deal. In the north, everyone smiled and was polite and on the surface there was no racism. BUT nobody would play with their kids, nobody would invite them over to neighborhood get togethers. They ended up feeling more segregated than they had in the south. I don't know if this is the norm or just the experience of a select few.... I do know that living in MN and having family in AL, I could see this being the case.

 

 

 

That has definitely NOT been my experience here in New England. I can't speak to other Northern/Midwest states though.

[Shahrazad]

I've had the experience that when I lived in Alabama, you knew that some people WERE racist, you knew they might go home and talk about you and be horrified by you, but southern manners and general politeness would not allow for them to be anything other than quite cordial. I mean, people were SO polite to me when I was visibly a minority and I noticed with other minorities, even if they would exchange glances once they thought you weren't looking. When I lived in the North, if someone WAS racist, they didn't even bother to hide it (Florida was like this as well, though). I think where in the north (northwest vs northeast for example) plays a role as well as proximity to bigger cities. In Newark and Philadelphia, I probably had the most positive experiences I've had. In MA suburbs, there have certainly been some stinkers.

[NCMom]

 

 

That has definitely NOT been my experience here in New England. I can't speak to other Northern/Midwest states though.

 

 

 

Not our experience in a tiny village in NH at all but most definitely was part of my dh and his family's experience in MA (very upscale neighborhood in Framingham). It was both very subtle and very horrible for them.

 

 

Georgia

[Firefly]

Well sure, nobody's arguing that racism doesn't exist at all in some places. Unfortunately we all have our share of Turd Nuggets (that one's for you, Miss Peregrine ;)).

[unfrumpable.]

I've had the experience that when I lived in Alabama, you knew that some people WERE racist, you knew they might go home and talk about you and be horrified by you, but southern manners and general politeness would not allow for them to be anything other than quite cordial. I mean, people were SO polite to me when I was visibly a minority and I noticed with other minorities, even if they would exchange glances once they thought you weren't looking. When I lived in the North, if someone WAS racist, they didn't even bother to hide it (Florida was like this as well, though). I think where in the north (northwest vs northeast for example) plays a role as well as proximity to bigger cities. In Newark and Philadelphia, I probably had the most positive experiences I've had. In MA suburbs, there have certainly been some stinkers.

 

 

I just want to mention something about FL. I lived in S FL most of my life. I never considered FL part of the "south" even though it is the southernmost state (CONUS). Then I moved to southern CA for four years. After that I lived in Jacksonville, FL for four years. I would consider that part of FL to be the "south." lol Definitely different from S FL or even other big cities in FL. I didn't really notice any prevalent racism in either north or south FL, but there is still a difference in general.

[Jenny in Florida]

I just want to mention something about FL. I lived in S FL most of my life. I never considered FL part of the "south" even though it is the southernmost state (CONUS). Then I moved to southern CA for four years. After that I lived in Jacksonville, FL for four years. I would consider that part of FL to be the "south." lol Definitely different from S FL or even other big cities in FL. I didn't really notice any prevalent racism in either north or south FL, but there is still a difference in general.

 

Yes, Florida is odd. It's so stretched out that it seems different regions have completely different characters. We live in central Florida, in Orlando, and it seems like the majority of the people we meet and know here are from somewhere "up north" (meaning the northeast). Although there are certainly jerks everywhere you go, I'm not aware of any noticeable amount of prejudice or ignorance in the general population right around here.

 

On the other hand, northern Florida seems to be much more stereotypically "southern," as does the area south of us down toward Tampa. And then things change again when you get closer to Miami.

[MyThreeSons]

I was born and raised in CA. My parents were colorblind when it came to people -- they taught us that skin color meant nothing. But there was still a separation -- not legally, but socially. We had a BSA (Black Students Association) at our high school, people of different ethnicities lived in segregated pockets within the city.

 

I have lived in SC for the past 15 years. I have been pleasantly surprised to see how many true friendships that cut across racial lines there are around here. And they often include older people. The warm greetings and extended conversations take place in grocery stores, shopping malls, doctor's office waiting rooms, etc. Once, I was pumping gas when a driver blasted his horn, shouted out the window, and then pulled a U-turn to get to the gas station. It was an older man, who had spotted an old friend. One was black, one white. They greeted each other with hugs, and talked at length, catching up on what the kids and grandkids were doing these days. These men obviously genuinely cared about each other -- they were not just being polite.

[unfrumpable.]

Yes, Florida is odd. It's so stretched out that it seems different regions have completely different characters. We live in central Florida, in Orlando, and it seems like the majority of the people we meet and know here are from somewhere "up north" (meaning the northeast). Although there are certainly jerks everywhere you go, I'm not aware of any noticeable amount of prejudice or ignorance in the general population right around here.

 

On the other hand, northern Florida seems to be much more stereotypically "southern," as does the area south of us down toward Tampa. And then things change again when you get closer to Miami.

 

Yes! I am not overly familiar with the Tampa area. My parents grew up in the Dade county area and we moved to Palm Beach County when I was around seven. In that area of S FL, there are many, many people who have moved there from up north, as well as plenty of snow birds and a distinct tourist "season" during the winter. One sees a lot of out-of-state plates. In Jacksonville, not so much. lol

[m0mmaBuck]

Just a few dissenting thoughts... Paula was under oath when she admitted saying the "N" word. She was under oath and did not lie. That says something about her character because there are a great many in this country who would have put their hand on the Bible, taken the oath, and lied to save their public face. Additionally, nothing I read said whether she said it yesterday or 50 years ago. She is a 66 year old white woman raised in the South during times of great social change. I think it would be difficult to find anyone her age with her upbringing who did not use that word at some point in their life.

[*Lulu*]

Just a few dissenting thoughts... Paula was under oath when she admitted saying the "N" word. She was under oath and did not lie. That says something about her character because there are a great many in this country who would have put their hand on the Bible, taken the oath, and lied to save their public face. Additionally, nothing I read said whether she said it yesterday or 50 years ago. She is a 66 year old white woman raised in the South during times of great social change. I think it would be difficult to find anyone her age with her upbringing who did not use that word at some point in their life.

 

It was not just about the use of the "N word". And it is much, much more recent than 50 years ago.

 

The more I read of her own words, the farther my jaw dropped. Really. The first article made me drop it a little, but by the time I had read everything linked up in this thread I had to pick it up off the floor.

 

I'm glad she didn't lie, but if she wanted kudos on her character she should have guarded her mouth more diligently.

 

 

 

Edited for stupid autocorrect errors.

[Shahrazad]

I don't generally give people credit for doing what they are supposed to do and not breaking the law. That really should be a given. Does she want a cookie? I can't even attribute such nice motives since if she ever said the N word around anyone else, she could easily be proven to be lying and if she knows that she has said it amongst people aside from herself and her brother then she probably also knows she can't lie if she doesn't want to go to jail.

 

And if she DID use the N word in the specific context that she is denying (as she is being accused of), then she is lying anyway since she is saying she didn't use it that particular instance since 'that isn't what these were'.

 

I agree with everything Bla5 just said.

[sparrow]

So what? Are we supposed to scrap more pages out of history books hoping that will make the past go away? It is what it was. If a certain number of men will hire themselves out as servers for a wedding knowing that the past is being recreated so be it. I may want a Pearl Harbor themed wedding and I will need some oriental looking men to recreate it. So what? Am I supposed to change history because it is racist?

 

And finally, some of the best comedians have preyed upon the generalities of society's groups to get a laugh. I think I have heard every blond joke and Pollock joke and doctor and fat joke there is. I have laughed at some of them. It doesn't mean I am a racist against those groups of people.

 

We are becoming a society of inhibitive censors because of political correctness. And the further we lean in this direction, the more impossible it is to comply.

 

I have never seen a Paula Deen show, by the way, nor do I cook.

 

So what?

 

Wow. This thread is making me feel incredibly naive. I don't consider myself PC. I just don't use human beings as *props* in a themed wedding based on their ethnicity or color of their skin. It would just never, ever cross my mind.

 

It's impossible to comply with not being a racist?

[*Lulu*]

 

I agree with everything Bla5 just said.

 

 

I am so glad you were able to read between my autocorrect errors and understand what I meant!

 

:p

[Slipper]

I won't give her too much credit for not lying. Remember, these comments were made in front of other people. My guess is that numerous people will also testify that she used this type of language.

 

I do agree that she is of the age where there are still bad attitudes towards those of a different skin color. I live in Alabama and still see it. It seems to get better with each generation so I have hope.

 

People who speak and think that way are a dying breed. You see plenty of children having friends of all shapes, colors and abilities.

 

I think PD didn't get the memo that times are changing, and her views are no longer appropriate. They're not romantic or a 'fun' time in our history. To play into that fantasy is wrong. We're better than doing something like that. I would think very poorly about someone who felt having 'slaves' at an event would be appropriate. It would make me horribly uncomfortable to even be there.

[MyThreeSons]

"Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" - which adjective would be removed if you were not racist? Seriously, I don't think some people see it. I saw this attitude pretty commonly when we lived in the south. There were some that thought every observation needed to have race entered into the equation.

 

Here's a little help: "Entire staff of black gentlemen in white suits" "professional black men doing a fabulous job" See, a compliment without the underlying racial remarks.

 

Thank you!! This is one of my pet peeves -- when race is unnecessarily introduced into a conversation.

 

I remember once when my s-i-l was telling us a story about "this black family" they saw in the ER waiting room. I don't even remember much about the story, except that when she was done telling it, my dh said, "I have one question. What difference did their skin color make?" My s-i-l was perplexed. Dh told her that there wasn't one thing about the story that warranted her mentioning their color. She still didn't get it. He finally asked, "If they were white, would you have started off by saying, 'There was this white family ..: ?" When she said of course not, he told her that there was then no need to tell us they were black. She still didn't get it.