Rudeness, let's talk about it

[Susan in TN]

 

It's not the "Excuse me"-pause-for-Laura-to-move so much as it is the "Excuse me"-as-they-shove-by-Laura.

 

If that makes any sense LOL.

 

So basically acting like my 8yo boy when he's spotted a plate of cookies and will likely pass out if he doesn't inhale one in the next 7 seconds. ;)

[Tita Gidge]

 

 

When I was walking into the library a few minutes ago, a lady was walking out literally screaming at someone on her cell phone. I guess she thinks the world needs to know she is having issues.

 

Maybe I'm just old, but seems to me that the kind of things people used to keep private are now some kind of badge of honor to be dealing with.

 

I mean, I get that it's great society can now talk about heavy issues that used to be hush-hush to the detriment of social groups (abuse, divorce, alcoholism, etc.). What I don't get is the other stuff - stuff that people should be more embarassed about having to handle in public. Why is "We'll discuss this later/when I get home/when I'm in the privacy of my car instead of the library lobby" no longer something that even registers?

 

And I say that as someone who enjoys a good reality tv show most nights. It's just I also enjoy being able to mute and shut off the reality I'm watching. Can't do that IRL!

[Luanne]

See, to me, this type of "manners" is totally absurd. I could not possibly care less whether someone has their fork in their right or left hand, as long as they are eating with utensils in a neat fashion. Other "rules" like this are silly in my opinion, too - napkin in your lap or on the table by your hand? Why must it go in your lap? What does it hurt if it's on the table?

 

Politeness is supposed to be based on increasing the comfort and pleasure of others. So - not picking your teeth at the table makes sense. How close your drinking glass is placed - who cares?

 

ETA: My dh's uncle, who ran a modeling school, fixated on all these dumb things. Supposedly, if you are having butttered bread with your meal, you are supposed to only butter the portion you are about to bite. This makes no sense to me at all. Don't you often have to share the butter anyway?

 

 

I'm with you on the napkin thing. I have found with my short legs, if I put my napkin on my lap it is most likely going to end up on the floor. That isn't where I want it to be so I just keep it by my plate on the table.

[Mergath]

I'm a native Minnesotan, so I'm sure what looks rude to me is fairly normal elsewhere. We're painfully polite here. And the national capital of passive-aggressiveness. :p

 

People have definitely gotten more rude over the last few years, though. And it's usually the parents more than the kids. I swear, the next time an adult literally shoves my dd out of the way at whichever activity we're attending so they can get a closeup of their darling little angel on their cell, I am going to beat the ever-loving crap out of them. :cursing:

[Mergath]

This reminds me - I was raised in the US in a "european" household. We were taught the european way to use eat, keeping the fork/knife in the same hands when cutting or bringing to mouth. I've been doing it this way my whole life. I knew that it was different from the US way, but assumed that people would know that my way was also a perfectly legit way of doing it - I even was taught that the european way was "more formal" (not sure where this came from) so in a sense, better. Much to my surprise, I find out from a friend that many people here consider my way to be bad table manners. Who knew? Too bad I've already taught my kids the euro way. shrug. People will criticize anything. The bold in your story flabbergasts me. Just goes to show, oftentimes it looks like rudeness but its really ignorance.

 

I eat that way, and I'd never dreamed some people consider it rude. I still remember the first time dh and I ate dinner when we were dating, and he noticed how I was eating and said, "Wow, you're so... classy." :lol: Now that we've been married for years, his opinion on that has changed, lol.

[Guest inoubliable]

I'm a native Minnesotan, so I'm sure what looks rude to me is fairly normal elsewhere. We're painfully polite here. And the national capital of passive-aggressiveness. :p

 

People have definitely gotten more rude over the last few years, though. And it's usually the parents more than the kids. I swear, the next time an adult literally shoves my dd out of the way at whichever activity we're attending so they can get a closeup of their darling little angel on their cell, I am going to beat the ever-loving crap out of them. :cursing:

 

LOL.

 

Your post reminded me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCcHCxvnnP8

 

You are pretty close to Canada...

[Luanne]

Since we are talking about rudeness... another thing that happens to me quite often is when I am leaving library with my hands full of books and am walking out the door, some young guy will want me to hold the door open for him when he has nothing in his hands at all. That really bugs me.

[Heather in Neverland]

 

 

LOL - are you in India?

 

Close enough. Malaysia. :)

[Tita Gidge]

So basically acting like my 8yo boy when he's spotted a plate of cookies and will likely pass out if he doesn't inhale one in the next 7 seconds. ;)

 

 

Now wait a minute - cookies??!

 

Sometimes rudeness is warranted.

 

Fresh cookies pretty much always.

 

Oh, any medical emergencies LOL.

[poppy]

I'd notice if someone used utensils European style or American style, but neither way is rude. Calling it out as rude is, obviously, not OK.

 

I am reminded of that scene in Die Hard where Bruce Willis figures out Alan Rickman is lying to him. Rickman is pretending to be another hostage, doing a good job faking an American accent..... but when he smokes a cigarette, he holds it European style (between fingers and thumb). From that Bruce Willis figures out he's the terrorist.

 

 

 

I'm with you on the napkin thing. I have found with my short legs, if I put my napkin on my lap it is most likely going to end up on the floor. That isn't where I want it to be so I just keep it by my plate on the table.

 

 

I think everyone should know how proper table manners for formal occasions, job interviews, and similar occasions where there is a bit of performance and theater in the meal. But I don't mind more acting more informally most of the time. It's similar to use of slang--- there are times when it's not appropriate, but for the most part, be yourself and don't worry about it.

[Mergath]

 

LOL.

 

Your post reminded me of this:

 

You are pretty close to Canada...

 

 

Lmao, that's awesome.

[Anne in CA]

Some of these are a lot worse than others, but the worst rude things that bother me are when one person really does just feel more important than someone else and it comes out in their actions. Yelling at a young mother in an airport is probably a sign of mental illness, (I hope), same with the woman who would not change seats on the airplane ((I wonder if she was trying to get thrown off, maybe she did not want to end up at her destination?). The man in the Jag who looks at someone and wont let them in?... That sort of thing really gets me. Working in a large hotel I do see some cultures that drink more, cut in lines, talk rudely to staff as being more rude. My boss actually had a big talk with us about the behavior of a certain ethnic group before a wedding where he warned us plainly, "No matter how hard it may be not to take offense at some things they do, God sees no difference between you and them. Treat them like Jesus would." Brave words for a manager in Portland, but the Muslims, Jews and New Agers among us got what he said and rose to the occasion without running to HR, lol.

[Belacqua]

I eat that way, and I'd never dreamed some people consider it rude. I still remember the first time dh and I ate dinner when we were dating, and he noticed how I was eating and said, "Wow, you're so... classy." :lol: Now that we've been married for years, his opinion on that has changed, lol.

 

Aw, we know you're classy!

 

If I tried to hold my fork with my left hand, I'd probably wind up stabbing myself in the eye. And bleeding on everybody's dinner is a rudeness I'd like to avoid. So there's that.

[Dicentra]

I'm a native Minnesotan, so I'm sure what looks rude to me is fairly normal elsewhere. We're painfully polite here. And the national capital of passive-aggressiveness. :p

 

This is because of your proximity to Canada, as KK pointed out. :)

 

And we really are sorry about your beer. ;)

[Joker]

I was just talking about this thread to my dds and youngest reminded me of a dad at Disney this past week. We were at Animal Kingdom and they have a petting zoo. When you leave that area there are wash stations and two (I think) hand dryers. We waited in line and dd was drying her hands when a dad of a toddler walked up and stuck his kid's hands under the dryer on top of dds. He totally ignored that she was using the dryer and also the two other people waiting in line behind her. Two of us moms in line just looked at each other and laughed, but there did seem to be a theme of this type of attitude in regards to parents of young ones this time. I've never noticed it before but suddenly it seemed they felt they deserved something more than the rest of us. It was odd.

[Laura Corin]

 

I am reminded of that scene in Die Hard where Bruce Willis figures out Alan Rickman is lying to him. Rickman is pretending to be another hostage, doing a good job faking an American accent..... but when he smokes a cigarette, he holds it European style (between fingers and thumb). From that Bruce Willis figures out he's the terrorist.

 

 

Have to link

talking about Alan Rickman. The question at the beginning (truncated) is 'How do you get work in Hollywood with an English accent?'

 

L

[Mom in High Heels]

Oh, the other day I was coming out of the bakery part of the food court and had a bag of several things in my hand. Two soldiers were walking in front of me and went out the main door. The first one held the door for the second and then let it shut on me. As they had to pass me coming out of the bakery to get to the main door they HAD to know I was right behind them, and even if they didn't it's just a curtesy (IMO) to look behind you before you let the door shut. I wouldn't expect them to wait for me and hold the door, but I was literally about 3 paces behind. Another soldier was coming in and also thought they would hold the door, since I was RIGHT BEHIND them. He quickly grabbed the door and pulled it open for me, shaking his head. He looked at me and said "How rude. What has happened to manners?" BTW, the soldier who held the door for me looked to be much younger than the ones who let the door shut on me.

[LisaKinVA]

 

ETA: My dh's uncle, who ran a modeling school, fixated on all these dumb things. Supposedly, if you are having butttered bread with your meal, you are supposed to only butter the portion you are about to bite. This makes no sense to me at all. Don't you often have to share the butter anyway?

 

Actually, one uses the butter knife (passed with the butter plate), to take a portion of butter and place on one's plate (bread plate, if available with your setting). Then, one uses one's own knife to butter the portion of bread they are about to eat.

 

This way, the butter remains free from miscellaneous debris and residue from other people's knives....which can be just as bad (if not worse) than double dipping ;)

 

Most families just use their own knife (regardless of where it's been or touched), or will muck up the butter knife buttering their bread, potatoes, turkey (yes, my brother butters his turkey...), or worse use their knife, which they have used to cut their turkey...or possibly eat from... to grab butter from the communal plate. blech.

[Ellie]

 

I think everyone should know how proper table manners for formal occasions, job interviews, and similar occasions where there is a bit of performance and theater in the meal. But I don't mind more acting more informally most of the time. It's similar to use of slang--- there are times when it's not appropriate, but for the most part, be yourself and don't worry about it.

 

 

I remember reading many years ago that Sarah, Duchess of York, taught her daughters several layers of manners: one for when they were hanging out with just immediate family, one when they were in public, one when they were with the Queen, and so on.

[warneral]

The Atlanta airport - the place where my boys picked up on situational rudeness and commented on it. We were arriving home from a vacation in England. The boys were 12, 9, 7, and 6. It was about 10 pm when we finally arrived. We were headed to the escalator as a family. I cannot tell you how many people tried to get ahead of us by cutting between the boys and us, the parents. We weren't slow...the boys have traveled a lot and know the drill. But we ended up separated on the long escalator - by quite a distance. The boys waited for us at the bottom and remarked how rude Americans were in comparison to the British. They had experienced something totally different in London and other places in England. When we walked down the streets of London or tried to board a bus, the crowds parted and made way for us as a group. Comments of "wait, let the family go ahead" or "it's all a family" were frequently heard. I think seeing 4 kids in tow in London is probably a rarer sight than in America.

 

There was nothing we could do in the situation, but we discussed it later with the boys. We talked about how busy and self-centered we are as a society and how we need to think of others and the problems they may be encountering rather than just about how fast we want to get somewhere or how inconvenient it is for us to wait for a small group to pass. The boys still talk about this...they were very impressed with how the British treated us and embarrassed about how their own countrymen behaved.

 

I felt the opposite when we arrived at US bound Heathrow. We had some bad experiences in England. That is not to say I wouldnt want to return, but it would affect my expectations if we go back.

 

I think for me, I try to be so courteous in this society, that I often expect similar treatment from my fellow humans. I'm learning to change those expectations since not everyone is just like me.

[Stayseeliz]

The instance that bothered me the most recently was someone cutting in between me and my children to get through a crowd. We were leaving a small theater at a zoo after a show and there were a lot of people exciting at once. A woman tried to cut in front of me and I asked her to please wait because she was cutting between me and my 9yo who was holding my 2yo's hand. I didn't want them to get lost in the crowd. She just kept on plowing through. Argh.

 

The homeschool convention I went to last month was awful. People stopping in the middle of the hallway to talk, etc was very annoying and created quite a backup. People would stop to adjust strollers, etc and just stand in the middle of the hallway. I don't get it.

[poppy]

The homeschool convention I went to last month was awful. People stopping in the middle of the hallway to talk, etc was very annoying and created quite a backup. People would stop to adjust strollers, etc and just stand in the middle of the hallway. I don't get it.

 

I don't think that is rude. The point of conventions like that isn't just the speakers and panels, it's to make connections with others with similar interests. The hallways are networking spaces. And the pauses the crowd creates are opportunities to connect with people around you.

[Stayseeliz]

I don't think that is rude. The point of conventions like that isn't just the speakers and panels, it's to make connections with others with similar interests. The hallways are networking spaces. And the pauses the crowd creates are opportunities to connect with people around you.

 

I understand that way of thinking but stopping to talk in the smack middle of the hallway with people obviously having to wait on you to move is rude to me. There wasn't a lot of time between sessions and it held people up from getting to where they needed to go on time. I just don't understand why people couldn't move to the side of the hallway to chat, etc.

[Laura Corin]

I felt the opposite when we arrived at US bound Heathrow. We had some bad experiences in England. That is not to say I wouldnt want to return, but it would affect my expectations if we go back.

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

 

L

[Jennifer3141]

I find manners fascinating in today's society.

 

Yesterday was DS' last golf lesson. After the lesson, I reminded him to thank his instructor. He did by walking up to him, holding out his hand and saying, "Thank you, sir." The guy laughed and shook DS' hand and then said that was the cutest thing he'd ever seen because he didn't know any little kids who knew how to shake hands. So I paused at that one.

 

DH and I have a hobby. We don't travel much because he really cannot leave his job and we have a small farm. I'm not big on leaving the critters. :)

So our hobby is eating out. And we are serious foodies. So we (actually ME, DH's table manners were embarressing when we met) have taught our children formal dining manners. And it always cracks me up when they notice other diners. I don't usually look. I have my DH and an iphone. Why would I want to look at other human beings?? :laugh: :laugh: Plus, it's rude to stare at other people...

 

But it always astounds me when the kids see something horrible. Last week, some elegantly dressed woman was SPRAWLED all over the table. She went way beyond elbows on the table. It was like half her upper body had to be in contact with the tablecloth. I thought she was ill or something but every once in awhile, she'd move around and show she could move her body so there you go. Our poor waiter couldn't put down the bread plate at her setting because she was just sprawled there.

 

The look on my Aspie kid's face was awesome. I can see him mentally going through the checklist when we are seated. Napkin on lap? Check. Elbows off table? Check. OMG LOOK AT THAT LADY!!! Check. Turn to Mom in total mortification. Check. It was a good time for me to quietly remind DS that it would be FAR more rude to gawk at her or say something than to actually sprawl across the table. DS was unconvinced. :laugh:

 

I miss table manners. I love the more forks you give me. I like forcing us all to sllooooooowwwww down. I never look at anyone oddly about the hand switching thing because I was taught that there's an American way of doing it and a European way of doing it, just like driving on the wrong wide of the road. :huh:

 

But I was surprised by how much my kids enjoy it. And the places we frequent the most have really been fun. DD exclaiming, "Oh! A real shrimp fork!" at a tiny French restaurant is just so charming. It makes me want to run home and reread Jane Austen.

[Butter]

Yesterday was DS' last golf lesson. After the lesson, I reminded him to thank his instructor. He did by walking up to him, holding out his hand and saying, "Thank you, sir." The guy laughed and shook DS' hand and then said that was the cutest thing he'd ever seen because he didn't know any little kids who knew how to shake hands. So I paused at that one.

 

I bet that was totally adorable :) The instructor definitely doesn't belong to my church. I think Mormons like shaking hands a little too much (any other churches do that? No matter where we've gone to church - MD, VA, TX, Ireland - everyone shakes hands constantly). Little kids start shaking people's hands very little. My poor lefty still can't keep it straight that he's supposed to shake with his right hand. It's just more comfortable for him to reach out with his left hand (actually, everyone thinks that is cute... and he's starting to remember to use his right hand about half the time now). My problem with shaking hands is germs. Now, I'm not a germophobe, but especially when we get into cold and flu season, I often refuse to shake hands. I'll "conveniently" have something in both hands so I just can't get one hand free for shaking. Where we used to live I'd elbow bump with a couple of people. It was our thing. No hand germs shared. I'm sure some people have thought me rude at church for refusing to shake hands (and non-cold and flu season I generally have no problem with the handshake thing).

[JadeOrchidSong]

 

 

That's one of the things I love about living in the South--the general politeness. :-)

 

 

 

The American way of eating (when cutting food is involved) is to cut the meat with the fork in the left hand, tines down, the knife in the right, put the knife down, move the fork back to the right hand, and eat (obviously, that would be the reverse if you're left handed). The European way is to leave the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right and eat. Clear as mud? :-)

 

In that case, my family has been doing the Euro way. I would not switch hands for the fork. Too much work. We don't care. There are not many Formal occasions for us to worry about it much!

 

[LucyStoner]

People can say all they want about people generally being polite or rude in certain states or regions. I don't really buy it. I have experienced kindness and politeness everywhere and rudeness and cruelty everywhere. Mostly the former, not the latter. But both things everywhere, sometimes on the same day in the same exact place in the same hour. Traveling the country as part if a biracial family was always illuminating.

[Heather in Neverland]

People can say all they want about people generally being polite or rude in certain states or regions. I don't really buy it. I have experienced kindness and politeness everywhere and rudeness and cruelty everywhere. Mostly the former, not the latter. But both things everywhere, sometimes on the same day in the same exact place in the same hour. Traveling the country as part if a biracial family was always illuminating.

 

Amen. We have had some very memorable experiences (both good and bad) as a mixed family (tri-racial?) both in America and abroad.

[wintermom]

I agree with many others who have said that what is perceived as rudeness can be cultural and situational. My dh and I were visiting the Louvre in Paris last year and had some really good laughs about differences in behaviour from different cultures all squished into a small area with a panic to get close to certain pieces of art. Being Canadian, and naturally pretty polite and non-physical in a crowd, my 6 foot, 250 pound dh was getting tired of getting pushed around by others, so he decided to go against his personal rules of rudeness and just plow through the crowd. Seconds later, an Australian dad said to his wife and kids, "Follow the big guy as he's doing great in this crowd!" :lol:

[TranquilMind]

Been an interesting little journey getting home. Got stuck in Atlanta airport for 15 hours. Found my mind wandering and reflecting on humans being rude as I gazed at situations. It was like Judge Judy Gone Wild in there.

 

Have you ever witnessed breaches of civilized behavior, tactless or rude actions in public or private situations? How do you respond? When basic etiquette, or even formal situations gone bad happen, how do you deal? Shopping cart games are fair game for chat too... ;)

 

Ha ha..."Judge Judy Gone Wild". Now there's a visual I will not soon forget.

 

Why, yes...yes, I have. I've even been rude a time or two that stand out, when I was having a really bad day (to my shame).

 

I'm much more chill now that I'm old....

[Luanne]

I've never eaten at a job interview in my life. I'm sure it happens, but not in any line of work I've done. The most that's happened is being offered a can of pop or a bottle of water. The closest thing to a formal dinner I've been to lately was when my aunt, uncle, and sister came over. My aunt and uncle live on a farm in Missouri. We had taco salad and most of us ended up using our hands to eat because otherwise we were just chasing it around the plate. :lol:

 

It's probably good I've never been in these truly formal situations. I wouldn't know what to do anyway and I would end up starving.

[Rosie_0801]

I agree with many others who have said that what is perceived as rudeness can be cultural and situational.

 

Yup, the manners are terrible at a certain train station in the city at the beginning of each semester. After a few weeks, all the Asian students learn Australian manners and everything goes back to normal until the beginning of the next semester, lol.

[wintermom]

One other funny example came to mind regarding "rude" driving. My friend who grew up in Montreal, explained to me that what I thought was rude and even crazy driving in Montreal was seen by her and other Montrealers as skilled and fortunate. Instead of complaining about a driver cutting in front of you, the response should be "Wow! Did you see that guy fit into that space!! I didn't think it was possible. I have to try that!" :driving: It kind of blew my mind growing up on the prairies were we actually pull over to let people pass us. :lol:

[Guest]

 

Actually, one uses the butter knife (passed with the butter plate), to take a portion of butter and place on one's plate (bread plate, if available with your setting). Then, one uses one's own knife to butter the portion of bread they are about to eat.

 

This way, the butter remains free from miscellaneous debris and residue from other people's knives....which can be just as bad (if not worse) than double dipping ;)

 

Most families just use their own knife (regardless of where it's been or touched), or will muck up the butter knife buttering their bread, potatoes, turkey (yes, my brother butters his turkey...), or worse use their knife, which they have used to cut their turkey...or possibly eat from... to grab butter from the communal plate. blech.

 

See, that's why one ought to avert all this idiocy and just butter the whole damn piece at the outset.

 

When I first became acquainted with dh's family, I thought their family butter-the-corn-on-the-cob habit was absolutely revolting. Rolling the cob lengthwise on the butter. Revolting, I tell you. Even once I knew that everybody considered this kosher in the family, I still could never bring myself to do that. Blech.

[warneral]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

 

L

 

Thanks Laura. Yours too! I can't imagine having someone critiquing my use of silverware while I ate. That is just obnoxious!

[Greta]

We had some bad experiences in England.

 

Oh, that's too bad. I don't have much experience with very large cities, but in my limited experience, London was far more friendly and also felt much safer than major US cities that I've visited. Several times, passers-by offered us help, with a warm smile, even though we hadn't asked. They must have felt pity for the poor stupid American tourists! And I was particularly impressed with the way people act on the Tube, quiet calm and courteous. I saw people give up their seats for those who needed them more. Even at times when it was INSANELY busy and crowded, I never witnessed any rudeness. (Saw a fist fight erupt in New York City once under far less crowded circumstances.). And wait staff, store clerks, etc. were always polite. I was very impressed!

 

But then again, I loved London so much that my opinion may be a little biased. It is now officially my most-favoritest-place-on-the-whole-entire-planet-ever.. But honestly I can't remember witnessing even one rude incident. I wish you'd had a better experience, but maybe you will next time!

[Forget-Me-Not]

But then again, I loved London so much that my opinion may be a little biased. It is now officially my most-favoritest-place-on-the-whole-entire-planet-ever.. But honestly I can't remember witnessing even one rude incident. I wish you'd had a better experience, but maybe you will next time!

 

You must have never attempted to cross the street in a crosswalk there. ðŸ˜

 

(But seriously, I adored London too. I'd love to go back)

[LucyStoner]

I've never eaten at a job interview in my life. I'm sure it happens, but not in any line of work I've done. The most that's happened is being offered a can of pop or a bottle of water.

 

 

It's common for a second or third interview to be over a meal for jobs that involve dining with clients or potential investors. I have a friend who is al banker fairly high on the food chain at the corp. office. The job interview process for the sorts of positions she has frequently involve meals not just with her but her spouse. Sort of like a drug test- not going to happen unless they are ready to hire you but the results can be a deal breaker.

[Belacqua]

It's common for a second or third interview to be over a meal for jobs that involve dining with clients or potential investors. I have a friend who is al banker fairly high on the food chain at the corp. office. The job interview process for the sorts of positions she has frequently involve meals not just with her but her spouse. Sort of like a drug test- not going to happen unless they are ready to hire you but the results can be a deal breaker.

 

 

The firm I worked for would send potential hires (mostly summer associates) to lunch with first- and second-year attorneys. The poor prospies were always so nervous, but we assured them, truthfully, that we were so excited about a free lunch at a swanky restaurant we were hardly paying attention to them, anyway. It was usually the only time the junior lawyers ever saw daylight, so we were kind of giddy. Unless somebody said or did something truly egregious, nothing ever came of those lunches.