Birth choice frustration

[Philothea]

Ladies, I am just so sad and annoyed right now, I don't really know what else to say.

 

I'm due 8/15 and I just got a phone call to call my midwife.

 

Well it turns out, one of the doctors who works with the practice wants to meet with me. The reason is that new recommendations have come out that VBA2C should not be done.

 

They want to meet at 11:30 on Thursday, in the AM and they can't do it any other day because both physicians, the regular and back up, are going away.

 

I am just so upset I could cry.

1. I want to have a VBAC more than anything in the world that is a material thing, I never want to have to be cut open again.

 

2. I wanted to have the baby with midwives in the hospital because, since I have not pushed a baby out successfully, I think I might like pain medication.

 

3. I don't want to go to this appointment, I know what the risks are. I just want to have my choice respected and left alone.

 

4. I don't drive into the city. I had to look high and low for this hospital and was willing to do anything, even go into Boston to have a VBAC. My DH works overnight at his job and going at 11:30 would be in the middle of the night for him. I need him there so they don't push me around.

 

5. I am terrified of most doctors, because they are either rude, treat you like a cattle or everything must be done just like the textbook says.

 

I'm sorry for being so emotional, maybe it is just the hormones, but I can already tell that the tears are going to start falling.

 

Thanks for listening.

[Philothea]

Just wante to say that I'm going to call my doula, as soon as I can calm down.

[Sue G in PA]

Do you know a midwife who will do a homebirth for you? I had a csection w/ my first child and a homebirth w/ my second. Yes, it was painful and LONG but so totally worth it NOT to have to be cut open again. I did end up having another csection w/ my 5th child (he was stuck...was not descending and I was POOPED!). I know what you mean about dr.'s. Perhaps you can talk to them and explain your strong desire to NOT be cut open again unless abs. necessary? They don't want to do the VBAC b/c of liability...plain and simple. Could your dh come w/ you? Or, take a friend for moral support and to help explain your position w/out emotions entering in? Good luck...I know how you feel. :grouphug:

[sdWTMer]

I'm so sorry. I've had 2 c-sections and regret them quite a bit. I was younger and more stupid and just didn't realize the power that I had. So sorry.

[Colleen]

I'm so sorry you're facing this now. The end of pregnancy, anticipating a birth, is emotional enough without a curve ball thrown your direction. Is your husband or someone else whom you trust able to accompany you to Thursday's meeting? It will help you, I'm sure, to not go alone. I know there will be people who reply to this thread and encourage you to consider trying a VBA2C at home, or wait until you're on the verge of delivering before going to the hospital, in hopes of avoiding a ceserean. As two of my five c-sections were emergencies of a very serious nature, I don't support such advice. I can only offer my hope that you can perhaps still have the birth experience you desire.

 

I am terrified of most doctors, because they are either rude, treat you like a cattle or everything must be done just like the textbook says.

 

That's too bad that you've had such poor experiences with doctors. I can assure you it's not true across the board. Aside from other, minor health issues, I've had eight surgeries in my life and have never experienced this kind of treatment. Try not to go into the situation with a negative, defensive attitude. Assume the best of the medical professionals with whom you come in contact and perhaps you'll be surprised. That isn't to say every doctor I've dealt with has had ideal bedside manner, but I don't regret a single one of my c-sections. They were all necessary; they all resulted in beautiful, healthy baby boys; and I am grateful that skilled people and equipped facilities were at my disposal. We are truly blessed in that regard.

 

Let us know how things go on Thursday.

[Heather in OK]

BIG hugs to you!! I know it's SO frustrating, especially so close to your due date!

 

One option is to go ahead and go to this meeting. Print off everything you can find on the safety of VBA2C. Listen to their side, present yours, and if they fight it, let it go in one ear and out the other. Then just plan to labor at home as long as possible!! You could try to show up at the hospital just before pushing (some women even labor in the parking lot and go in when they are pushing). Does your doula have any training with doing vaginal exams so that she could do more monitrice care for you?

 

Can your doula attend the meeting with you if your dh can't go?

 

One option would be to say you can't make it, that your dh can't go to drive you there.

 

And ditto the homebirth recommendation. It may be hard finding someone so close to your EDD but it's not unheard of. Are you in a state where your midwife could attend to you at home as well as in the hospital?

 

Keep taking those deep breaths. Everything always has a way of working out.

[Mamagistra]

What if you just skip the appointment? :001_smile: Will your midwife still be available for the birth?

[Aubrey]

Ok, you know the risks. You've chosen a hospital for solid reasons. The appt is not to tell you you CAN'T have a VBAC2, just that they don't recommend it. And both dr's are busy aside from Thurs. at 11:30.

 

This is easy. You're busy Thurs at 11:30. You're terribly sorry, but they're free to send you literature.

 

In this case, given what you've said, the dr's are simply advisors. It's ok (imo, & *in this case*) to treat them like salesmen: no thank you. Good-bye.

 

If an emergency occurs, you're in the hospital. I can't imagine anything more prudent. I don't know about VBACs, but assuming you do, this would be my approach.

 

(((Philothea)))

 

And if you do go, take Remudamom w/ you. ;)

[Osmosis Mom]

You are in MA. I just had my baby in MA (we are in NH, though) and delivered at Anna Jacques in Newburyport where they are very aggressive about doing VBAC's -on certain conditions, though. I had to wear the monitoring belt throughout my labor and no, they would not allow me to use one of their midwives since they won't alow VBAC's without a physician in the room.

 

 

They could very easily have had me do a c-section as there were minor complications, but they felt confident that I could do the VBAC.

 

I am not sure you shold rock the boat too much since there is only a few days left of your pregnancy. I am not sure why you were not being informed about this matter before, but I think you should do oyur best to calm your hormones and go to the meeting and just hear what they have to say. I am assuming your midwife will be there as well? I am confused a bit about why you feel so strongly against the c-section since this is what you had before and I doubt there are many places where they in good conscience would just deliver you vaginally without a medical standing right by (at least).

 

Please don't get upset with my comments. This is very compressed cyber-world.

[Colleen]

This issue is rather near and dear to me, given that my first two children owe their very lives to skilled surgeons and trained medical professionals. I realize that c-sections are looked upon by some as settling for less, a cop-out, an unnecessary surgery relied upon in the face of potential liability, and so and so forth. But I've been around the block enough to cringe when people so breezily suggest a woman simply try to go it alone, regardless of her medical history.

[Holly IN]

As two of my five c-sections were emergencies of a very serious nature, I don't support such advice. I can only offer my hope that you can perhaps still have the birth experience you desire.

 

 

 

They were all necessary; they all resulted in beautiful, healthy baby boys; and I am grateful that skilled people and equipped facilities were at my disposal. We are truly blessed in that regard.

 

.

 

I agree with Colleen. I am SO THANKFUL for my c-sections. There is a reason for not doing VBAC especially if you had 2 c-sections. I almost lost my middle child and my uterus due to OB Hospital nurses trying to get me to do a VBAC when I WANTED a c-section. Thankfully, my OB's boss came in and ordered them to prep me for c-section. They found out that if I had been forced to do a VBAC I would have lost my son, my utererus and possibly my life. My uterus was paper thin and every contraction I had made it thinner right on the OR table. It ended up being an emergency which it shouldn't have come to that if the OB nurses would have listened to me.

 

NO REGRETS for having my c-sections. I have 3 beautiful and wonderful children as a result of c-sections. They are alive and well. Think about the end results, not how you got there. There will be your child at the end. No matter how he/she got there. Look at the end results. I also agree that if you go into a situation with a positive outlook, you will be surprised. Be open with this dr and let him know your fears and situation. I bet you he/she will be understanding. If not then find another OB in the practice or hospital. They are out there!!

 

Holly

[Osmosis Mom]

I came to the States 11 years ago after 3 vaginal births (1st one was a disaster with a midwife that ended in a vacuum-delivery) and was dead-set against c-sections, having read all the Newsweek reports on the overuse of c-sections here.

 

Had another vaginal delivery with a family-doctor (I was really wanting to avoid any surgeons for c-sections) and then got pregnant with twins. I spent probably every day of that pregnancy till week 34 agonizing over what to choose (very isolated hospital with lowest level of medical care for newborns). I finally chose the c-section as being the safest and least selfish solution if I wanted healthy babies at the end.

 

Now I feel strongly that c-sections are being scoffed at as people are wanting to go back to natural birth methods and what not (and yes, I had my vaginal deliveries au naturelle and scoffed highly at mothers who took drugs during delviery. Fastforward to my last delivery where I got a painrelieving injection for which I am forever thankful...).

 

Opinions change...

 

I just think it is very important to remember the health of the baby and mother while possibly putting aside ideologies and dreams.

[Murphy101]

BUT I am not you, so toss it if you feel so led.

 

The only reason I can think they've decided you have to rush in for an appt is because they want to schedule a c/s ASAP b/c you are very close to due date. I would be truely shocked, pleasantly so, if that isn't what they want you in for. I'd bet money they want to see you in the morning and do the c/s that afternoon or the next morning.

 

As you don't want a c/s and that was what they had already agreed they'd let you try, then there is not really much to discuss or make an extra appt for. If drs ran around calling patients and changing how they practice the minute a new recommendation came out, they'd never have a moments peace.:tongue_smilie:

 

I'd call the office, say you feel confident about proceeding with the current plan of action and so see no reason for this discussion. Should your or your baby's medical condition change, you will accept that at the time, but for now, you see no reason to have a surgery if you can try to avoid it. Happy, happy, joy, joy tone of voice the entire time. Full of understanding for the need to cover their bums, but refusing to be inconvienced by their little paperwork problem.;)

 

You can still deliver at the hospital.

You can still follow your current plans.

 

Good luck.

I wouldn't go without dh either.

[Holly IN]

This issue is rather near and dear to me, given that my first two children owe their very lives to skilled surgeons and trained medical professionals. I realize that c-sections are looked upon by some as settling for less, a cop-out, an unnecessary surgery relied upon in the face of potential liability, and so and so forth. But I've been around the block enough to cringe when people so breezily suggest a woman simply try to go it alone, regardless of her medical history.

 

 

I totally agree!!!!!!:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

 

I think it is very irresponsible to be giving advice to a woman who for some reason is being told not to do a VBAC2. I think there is a reason why the hospital is wanting her to do a C-section. They probably know something that she doesn't know. I strongly urge Philothea to go to the appt and talk to the dr. The dr's that I have had always listened to me. Some are arrogant but never really cocky about this situation.

 

Please please go to the appt. I think it is very very risky to do the labor at home when you already had 2 c-sections. You are away from the hospital and the dr. You are taking a big risk with your life and your baby's life. Please I am begging you to go to the appt!!

 

Holly:grouphug:

[Mom2legomaniacs]

This issue is rather near and dear to me, given that my first two children owe their very lives to skilled surgeons and trained medical professionals. I realize that c-sections are looked upon by some as settling for less, a cop-out, an unnecessary surgery relied upon in the face of potential liability, and so and so forth. But I've been around the block enough to cringe when people so breezily suggest a woman simply try to go it alone, regardless of her medical history.

 

Most definitely fully agree here. This could potentially be very dangerous if something went wrong. None of us are qualified to offer that kind of advice from a message board!

 

I am all for trying to have the birth you want. But more important than that is the well-being of the mother and baby. There are so many things that can go wrong, especially with a higher risk doing what you are wanting to do. I know this is important to you, but do the risks outweigh that?

 

Please have the conversations with the right people. You need to talk to the doctor about your fears and what you really want to do. Not in a demanding way, but in a way that says that you understand surgery may be necessary if there are risks to yours or the baby's health. If approached in the right manner, I have found the doctors to be very open to listening. I don't try to do their job, but ask questions, state concerns, and tell them what I hope to do if possible.

[Heather in OK]

The risk of rupture with a VBA2C is still VERY small.

 

Here is a recent study from January of this year:

http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic3746.htm

[Mama Lynx]

Philothea,

 

:grouphug:

 

This stinks. It's bad enough to be informed, educated, and prepared and to have your CHOICE forcibly taken from you. It's worse for them to do it this far into your pregnancy, putting you into such an emotional state at this time.

 

Do call your doula. She'll be there for you. I hope she'll help you to feel supported, and have ideas on how to work with you to get the birth that is best for you and your baby.

 

I hope the VBAC horror stories that are, unfortunately, coming out on this thread are not similarly stressful to you; if they are, take those to your doula too. YOU know best how to make this decision for yourself and your baby. You are not anyone else on this thread.

[Mama Lynx]

Are y'all perhaps missing the point that she's frustrated, and upset, and is here to vent and for emotional support? I really cannot imagine that she's going to take her medical advice from us. Do any of us really do that?

[8filltheheart]

I think you need to keep the appointment. My thoughts are very strongly like those of Colleen. You do not know that they are going to tell you that you can't v-bac. They may simply want to go over procedures in case your attempted vbac is unsuccessful and you have to have an emergency c-sec.

 

Trust me. Having a baby breathing in your arms is what you really want. It is NOT about the delivery. Having a delivered a stillborn, I would do anything to have not had that occur.

[Katie.Louise]

I had 3 c-sections and regret that I didn't try a VBAC. I agree too that we shouldn't give you medical advice. But we can encourage you to have a voice when you deal with dr's. I feel that we employ doctors. We, and the insurance for which we pay, pay them for their service. They can give you their advice or what they think would be best, but ultimately it is your decision.

 

Please try to stay calm about it. You don't need anything upsetting you. When I was pregnant with my 3rd daughter I had some health concerns and had to tell one dr no to some testing that he rec. It was tough to do, but I felt like it was the best choice for me.

The Lord be with you!

Katie

[Philothea]

I just talked to my doula, she is going to help me understand the policies of the particular hospital and to know my right as a patient better.

 

The time was one of my biggest concerns. I'm not opposed to hearing what the doctor has to say, I already know what he is going to say.

 

What I don't like is someone who has never met/examined me, trying to pressure me to make a decision that I don't want to make. They normally never read your medical history, my birth notes from the first hospital are all horribly biased anyways. (They said I refused to feed my baby, which was the worst lie ever)

 

I have an appointment there on Friday, so now I have to go up there twice this week if I go.

 

DH is sleeping, it is night time for him, so we'll talk when he gets up.

 

I am thinking I am going to either ask that they chose a different date for the meeting, or tell them that they can send me information in the mail and I will be happy to initial it, date it, sign it and return it, so they can make sure that I fully understand.

 

The bottom line is that DH has to be there, to keep me from getting emotional and to help me advocate for myself. And I am not going to sign up/consent for a 3rd scheduled c-section, unless I think it is the right thing to do.

 

Thank you so much, I have calmed down considerably!!!

[Mom2legomaniacs]

I just read that you spoke to your doula. I am glad. I hope you can get the information that you need to understand the policies. And I hope that you can talk to the doctor(s) about this and get a good, safe resolution. I hope things can go the way of you being able to have the birth you want.

[Heather in OK]

I hope the VBAC horror stories that are, unfortunately, coming out on this thread are not similarly stressful to you; if they are, take those to your doula too. YOU know best how to make this decision for yourself and your baby. You are not anyone else on this thread.

 

Thank you for that!

 

I'm (obiviously since I'm currently a homebirth midwifery apprentice) a strong supporter of homebirth (even with multiple c/s). However, I don't jump into hospital birth threads and say, "It's irresponsible to birth in the hospital." I'm not sure why it's necessary to jump in with horror stories and stating that birthing at home is irresponsible. Yes, at times the hospital is where a woman needs to be. But that doesn't mean VBAmC is unsafe or irresponsible. Bad things happen regardless of where you birth.

 

What matters is that women have the freedom of choice to decide where to birth and whom with.

 

However, to give advice to someone without knowing first-hand her medical history or a physical evaluation is not appropriate, imo.

Um...No. I was giving her OPTIONS. Not medical advice. There is a difference.

[Philothea]

I just wanted to thank you, Heather, for the link. I read it over, I'm so glad you posted something so scholarly, it is good to have that kind of information.

[8filltheheart]

I guess I should share that I have vbac-ed 4 times since having 2 c-secs. However, every person's medical history is totally different. By problems are not related to delivery at all, but pregnancy complications.

 

You stated that you haven't met the drs yet. It could be that these drs are actually supportive of your v-bac and just want to clarify your medical history. My dr with my #8 went to bat for me so that I could deliver at a birthing center that doesn't like to deliver anyone beyond #6. They let me deliver #8 even though it was a vbac after 2 c-secs.

 

The best suggestion I can offer is to not pre-judge the situation. Be well educated about what you want and the associated risks.

 

I would be more concerned about drs who didn't show any interest in my history and care than ones that want to meet me prior to due date.

[Mommy22alyns]

I'm glad you're calmed down and feeling better. I know how hard it is to be faced with struggles over birth methods at such a late stage in your pregnancy. *hugs*

 

DD2 was an entirely necessary C-section, and I desperately wanted to avoid a C. I was afraid of it! But it was the only way she was coming out.

[Mrs Mungo]

This issue is rather near and dear to me, given that my first two children owe their very lives to skilled surgeons and trained medical professionals. I realize that c-sections are looked upon by some as settling for less, a cop-out, an unnecessary surgery relied upon in the face of potential liability, and so and so forth. But I've been around the block enough to cringe when people so breezily suggest a woman simply try to go it alone, regardless of her medical history.

 

I have to agree with Colleen. I'm a natural childbirth instructor and have had a successful VBAC myself (I had a vaginal birth, a c-section and then another vaginal birth). I really do understand how emotional it can be. However, there are usually a lot of factors that come into play.

 

My sister just had a second c-section due to a a number of real risk factors that appeared near the end of her pregnancy. I agree that doctors often make decisions based on liability rather than the patient's risk factors and well-being. On the other hand, some doctors really do have your best interest at heart and there can be real risk factors that do require a c-section.

 

I don't agree with people posting the horror stories, I don't find it helpful or necessary. For every homebirth disaster you post I could post a hospital birth disaster, it's beside the point.

 

I *absolutely* encourage the OPer to take her DH or doula or whomever will help her stand up for herself with the doctor and find out where the issue lies and make her own decision based on what the doctor says. Good luck with your decision and many good, calming thoughts as you make your decision and enter the end of your pregnancy.

[Holly IN]

I am sorry if I offended in posting my story. It is true and real. This type of thread is near and dear to my heart. That is why I posted my story. I do not believe it is "horror" story. It could have been if my dr's boss hadn't showed up.

 

Sorry if I offended....

:confused:

 

 

Holly

[kalanamak]

Ladies, I am just so sad and annoyed right now, I don't really know what else to say.

 

I'm due 8/15 and I just got a phone call to call my midwife.

 

Well it turns out, one of the doctors who works with the practice wants to meet with me. The reason is that new recommendations have come out that VBA2C should not be done.]

 

It may be that the hospital won't go along with it, regardless of what doc thinks. It could be the hospital will only allow it if it is doc, not midwife, attending.

 

It could also be s/he'd like you to be able to give *informed* consent, so that if you do have something go wrong, his/her malpractice insurance won't blackball him/her and force early retirement or limiting them to gyn, without the OB. Why not call the midwife and ask why.

 

Bring the doula, or the midwife, or a friend. I've certainly met docs who are jerks, but some are not.

[8filltheheart]

I understand completely, Holly. The "horror" stories are other people's real lives.

 

This is a case where knowing all sides of the issue is the only way to make an informed decision.

[Hannah]

I agree with those that have recommended that you keep the appointment, but to take your husband or doula along to ensure that they advocate for you, and are also able to listen to all options and risks with a clear mind.

 

In my view, the most important aspect to consider is the experience of VBAC's that the attending staff has and the level of care available to you while you are birthing. It is important to know exactly what the emergency plan is should anything go wrong – particularly a uterine rupture. The hospital needs to be set up to do an immediate caesarean – which means OB and anesthesia services on call. The general guideline (I'd have to google again to find the journals) is that the baby needs to be delivered in less than 15 minutes.

 

The risk of rupture with a VBA2C is still VERY small. Here is a recent study from January of this year.

 

With all my heart I wanted to have a VBAC for my second daughter after my first was born via emergency c-section, but I decided that a 1.1% risk (as per the stats linked) was too high given that none of the hospitals in our area (small town South Africa) have anesthetists on standby and the OB would be on call, but not present in the room while I birthed.

 

As I wanted to ensure that my daughter was "ready' to be born, my OB and I did come to a compromise that I'd go into labour and that we would then do the c-section.

[RoughCollie]

I think the risk depends entirely upon the situation of the woman who is being advised. When my doctor told me not to try VBAC, I asked him what his reasons were, and what the risk was.

 

For me, the risk was 10% that my uterus would rupture and DD and I would both die. I was not willing to take that risk, especially since I had triplet babies at home.

 

I'd had an emergency c-section with a vertical incision, and I'd been pregnant with triplets previously. I'm pretty sure that had a lot to do with the recommendation that I not try VBAC.

 

So, I would recommend that you ask your doctor what the risks and reasons are for him recommending VBAC and make your decision from there. You can even ask him if medical malpractice insurance considerations have anything to do with his recommendation.

 

If you are intimidated by doctors, take a list of questions with you. Remember that you do not have to answer any questions, or ask them, without taking a minute to think about what you want to say. You can tell the doctor that you are taking a minute to do this, if you like. You do not have to make decisions on the spot, either. All you have to say is that you need to confer with your DH before you decide on anything.

 

RC

[WTMindy]

That's too bad that you've had such poor experiences with doctors. I can assure you it's not true across the board. Aside from other, minor health issues, I've had eight surgeries in my life and have never experienced this kind of treatment. Try not to go into the situation with a negative, defensive attitude. Assume the best of the medical professionals with whom you come in contact and perhaps you'll be surprised. That isn't to say every doctor I've dealt with has had ideal bedside manner,

 

This is good advice, Colleen. My father is a doctor and he is wonderful with his patients, and the many friends I have that are doctors are also wonderful.

 

I truly hope that you are able to have the delivery the way you want. It sounds very important to you!!! :grouphug::grouphug: Hugs and prayers to you!!

[graywiggle]

HI,

I remember this really emotional time, and the feelings of frustration, and fighting (when you don't want to fight)

I found I became "ready to fight" whenever near hospitals, and never did find a supportive dr.

ds3 was vbac born at home. I'm trying to think of any helpful advice should you labour. run around in the early stages, stand up, don't lie on your back (you know, the usual stuff..), I seemed to be on a beach looking at pebbles for a lot of the time. I know I react horribly to syntocin, (which is bad news with vbac anyway) and had ds3 without pain relief. At one point I asked for gas, and the midwife fobbed me off with some excuse which I accepted. Pushing out- didn't feel a thing - just too grateful to have got past dilation.

 

dd4 was a csection, with a good dr, and that is a different experience. from this I learnt how quickly you can get going again, and recover. dd4 was in special care, and I was able to see her as soon as my legs could support my weight (less than a couple of hours) I was discharged the following morning. Your determination will give you strength.

 

Good luck with this, and look forward to hearing you've had a beautiful baby.

 

Maria.

[cjzimmer1]

My first question would be who made the new recommendation. Is it just the doctors's or hospital's recommendation? Personally neither of those would hold any weight in my opinion since you know they are only motivated on the fear of a lawsuit. I have heard that the Official doctors association (don't remember what it's actual name is) has changed anything recently but then again I haven't actively researched it in a few years. After my first successful VBA2C, I wasn't going to be talked into anything else. But then I'm STUBBORN, my mom has complained about that my whole life.

 

My doctors haven't always agreed with my decisions, but I was able to explain my reasoning in a manner that they could accept why I made the choices I did. My husband and I do not believe in birth control of any kind. Since I had 4 kids in the first 8 years of our marriage and based on my age, I easily had another 10+ years of fertitity left, it was possible that I could be looking at another 5-6 kids in my future. Because the more c-sections you have, the greater risks for future pregnancies (uterine rupture as well as the placenta attaching to scar tissue), I felt that my risks to future pregnancies by having a 3rd c-section was greater than my current risk of uterine rupture my having a VBA2C. Due to life circumstances, I wasn't going to have any help at home. A c-section would have prevented me from caring for my other children (lifting restrictions) plus I had no one to drive us to those early doctor's appointments.

 

My doctor "quoted" me some very scary statistics. She almost changed my mind. However, I felt so aweful at the thougth of another c-section. I talked to two doctors and two OB nurseshurch about about it. All just cited medical research at me. But I just couldn't leave it at that. After much prayer I went with my heart. I had the VBA2C, it went great, I simply had to trust God. I know I would have forever regretted it if I went with a scheduled c-section. For my own peace of mind, I needed to at least try labor, if things weren't going well, I wouldn't have hesitated for a second to do a c-section, but I couldn't just go straight there without even trying.

 

The hospital cannot force you to have a medical procedure (c-section) against your will however they did make me sign a very scary sounding waiver of liability type of form. THat was fine with me. Only you can make this decision but don't let them bully you into doing something if it feels wrong to you.

 

Stephanie

[Philothea]

I got the appointment changed to 4:30 tomorrow.

 

Basically, the doctor needs to cover his tracks before he goes on vacation, in case the midwives don't end up doing the delivery.

 

The midwife was really nice and apologetic about springing it on me. However, she did try to pressure me to come in without my husband. But I was firm that I would not come without him and suddendly the doctor had room for me in his schedule tomorrow :)

 

Thank you all for helping me calm down, so I could deal with this issue. Normally, I am not the emotional type, but this is something that gets me going, I am sure the hormones don't help.

 

It was really tough and I almost gave in to meeting without DH. But he was there while I was on the phone and his presence helped me not to back down.

[sleepy]

Oh, I'm so glad dh will be able to go with you. :001_smile:

Hope the meeting tomorrow goes smoothly.

[Philothea]

Thanks so much, sleepy!

 

I forgot to mention that my absolute best friend is on vacation with her extended family, so I could not call her to vent. Good thing the "Hive" was here :)

[LMA]

This issue is rather near and dear to me, given that my first two children owe their very lives to skilled surgeons and trained medical professionals. I realize that c-sections are looked upon by some as settling for less, a cop-out, an unnecessary surgery relied upon in the face of potential liability, and so and so forth. But I've been around the block enough to cringe when people so breezily suggest a woman simply try to go it alone, regardless of her medical history.

 

I agree with Colleen. C-sections are life-saving operations. My first c-section was an emergency since I was not dilating and I was in induced labor and had pre-eclampsia. Your medical history is unique to yourself. I do not know the reasons for your previous c-section. A VBAC depends a lot on the reasons for your previous c-sections. While others may tell you that a VBAC is okay, it may not be in your case. Unfortunately, one doesn't know that until one is in the middle of a VBAC. Studies do show that the risk of rupturing during a VBAC increases a lot after each c-section. Besides wanting a VBAC, you need to ask the doctor what is the risk of rupturing for your specific case. Thus, I don't think you should base your decision on the experiences of others because of the uniqueness of your medical history.

[milovany]

I got here late but am glad you've come to a conclusion you're comfortable with!

 

I do want to mention that I posted here recently about a friend who wanted to do a VBA2C -- due in August, too! -- and the hospital has shut her down here in her ninth month. She will not be allowed to deliver without surgery locally at our hospital; this rule was just changed in the last month. She scrambled to find another place to deliver. Not wanting a planned home birth, and not finding ANYWHERE to deliver (except a high-risk -- which she's not -- clinic two hours west of here, under the proviso she *moved* there before the baby was born), she is in fact being forced into an unwanted c-section which is now scheduled for August 15. Her *only* other option -- besides laboring at home and showing up at the hospital, which is about six blocks from her house, ready to push (which I don't know is an option) -- is an unassisted home birth.

 

I wanted to believe that there's no way a hospital can force you into something like this, but I no longer do. I'm posting to give you the information that it actually does happen. I don't want you to go into the meeting thinking you'll be allowed to do whatever you want IF they've already changed the rules (they may NOT have, I'm just saying IF they have I wanted you to be aware that it DOES happen -- forced c-sections). We have excellent OB care at our local county hospital (my brother in law is the high-risk/emergency OB in town and he's very good and very respected), so it's not that. The hospital just decided that ALL VBA2Cs were too risky (which I wholeheartedly disagree with, and namely in my friend's case; her C's were NOT for things that couldn't be different in future pregnancies, and in fact which ARE different this pregnancy). It's a travesty.

[claire up north]

Just wanted to make a quick suggestion...

 

Write down what you want to say to the doctors. Make it a brief letter with lots of white space and bullet points (easy to skim). You can fax it to the office ahead of time. Bring an extra copy with you (actually, I'd take 2 or 3). When the doctor(s) come in, immediately smile, be charming, and ask if they've seen your note. Explain that you are hormonal, emotional, and very concerned about how your baby's birth will be handled, so you've written out your issues so that you don't forget anything. Give them the letter and watch them read it.

 

This should help set the tone and agenda for the meeting.

 

Good luck!

[Staci in MO]

In hindsight, one of the best things my doctor did for me the day after my first c-section was sit down next to my bed and explain (again), why he chose to do the c-section. It helped my state of mind so much in the instances where someone has suggested that I could have prevented my c-sections if I had just been better informed.

 

I think that's why women like Colleen, Holly, and I, who know beyond a shadow of a doubt that either we or our children wouldn't be alive today if not for c-sections, have a hard time understanding the strong emotions of women who feel they had major surgery forced on them for no other reason than a doctor's convenience.

 

On the other hand, women who have been subjected to unnecessary c-sections (and I agree that there are instances where c-sections are unnecessary), can't understand why I am continually saying that, in my opinion, a c-section is not the end of the world. Hence the negative rep I got the last time this subject came up. :001_unsure:

 

And while I can't speak for anyone else but myself here, perhaps I am a wee bit defensive when it comes to this subject. The handful of times when it was implied that I was somehow less of a woman because I hadn't birthed a child vaginally, or was someone who allowed herself to have an unnecessary surgery forced on her, it really stung. And so, on some level, I'm probably still arguing with those people. Only here. On a message board.

 

Hugs to you, Philothea. I hope your visit to the doctor (and the birth of your baby) goes well.

[Joanne]

I think it is very irresponsible to be giving advice to a woman who for some reason is being told not to do a VBAC2. I think there is a reason why the hospital is wanting her to do a C-section. They probably know something that she doesn't know. I strongly urge Philothea to go to the appt and talk to the dr. The dr's that I have had always listened to me. Some are arrogant but never really cocky about this situation.

 

Please please go to the appt. I think it is very very risky to do the labor at home when you already had 2 c-sections. You are away from the hospital and the dr. You are taking a big risk with your life and your baby's life. Please I am begging you to go to the appt!!

 

I'm (obiviously since I'm currently a homebirth midwifery apprentice) a strong supporter of homebirth (even with multiple c/s). However, I don't jump into hospital birth threads and say, "It's irresponsible to birth in the hospital." I'm not sure why it's necessary to jump in with horror stories and stating that birthing at home is irresponsible. Yes, at times the hospital is where a woman needs to be. But that doesn't mean VBAmC is unsafe or irresponsible. Bad things happen regardless of where you birth.

 

Hm. I think we have to be very careful to offer across the board advice from either "side". The truth is that labor, birth and early infancy are unique to the location, medical support staff, baby and Mom.

 

"C-sections are life savers" as well as "have your baby at home" are broad, inaccurate statements.

 

There are plenty of unnecessary hospital protocol that creates the "need" for a c-section. There are plenty of "natural birth" advococates that embrace non intervention to a dangerous level.

 

There is *not* a right answer in this regard. It reminds me, somewhat, of my ultrasound experience. Due to a personal experience with a false positive ultrasound diagnosis, *I* would never, ever do another ultrasound for pregnancy. It was *absolutely* the right decision for me. That doesn't make ultrasound wrong; my situation was just an example of the potential problems inherent with routine u/s in pregnancy. It's the same with hospital, birth center, homebirth, c-section, scheduled/elective c-sections, unassisted birth. Across the board statements hurt rather than help.

 

I trust the OP to have done *her* research for her situation and the related research about the issue at hand. I know I would feel imposed on, stressed, scared and anxious if I were dealing with her set of circumstances!

 

 

OP, I am praying for a healthy labor and delivery for you and your growing family!

[nakitty]

I have to agree with Colleen. I'm a natural childbirth instructor and have had a successful VBAC myself (I had a vaginal birth, a c-section and then another vaginal birth). I really do understand how emotional it can be. However, there are usually a lot of factors that come into play.

 

My sister just had a second c-section due to a a number of real risk factors that appeared near the end of her pregnancy. I agree that doctors often make decisions based on liability rather than the patient's risk factors and well-being. On the other hand, some doctors really do have your best interest at heart and there can be real risk factors that do require a c-section.

 

I don't agree with people posting the horror stories, I don't find it helpful or necessary. For every homebirth disaster you post I could post a hospital birth disaster, it's beside the point.

 

I *absolutely* encourage the OPer to take her DH or doula or whomever will help her stand up for herself with the doctor and find out where the issue lies and make her own decision based on what the doctor says. Good luck with your decision and many good, calming thoughts as you make your decision and enter the end of your pregnancy.

 

what she said

[AustinTea]

In hindsight, one of the best things my doctor did for me the day after my first c-section was sit down next to my bed and explain (again), why he chose to do the c-section. It helped my state of mind so much in the instances where someone has suggested that I could have prevented my c-sections if I had just been better informed.

 

 

I think hearing why your doctor did or wants to do a c-section is one of the best things you can do. I had one with my first and I'm not sure exactly why so I don't know if it could have been prevented or not. With my second I was thinking that I would be having another c-section but in the last couple months before my due date my doctor talked to me about my fears and his reasoning for thinking I should try a vbac. He assured me that as soon as I was at the hospital in labor that an OR would be made ready in case I needed it.

 

Philothea,

All of that basically to say, I would talk to your doctor/midwife and the doctor who wants to see you to see what the reasons are and to discuss your concerns with them. A solution that is pleasing to all of you may be able to be reached.

I'll be wishing the best for you.

[OnTheBrink]

No advice or experience with this, but :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: to you.

[chaik76]

I just talked to my doula, she is going to help me understand the policies of the particular hospital and to know my right as a patient better.

 

The time was one of my biggest concerns. I'm not opposed to hearing what the doctor has to say, I already know what he is going to say.

 

What I don't like is someone who has never met/examined me, trying to pressure me to make a decision that I don't want to make. They normally never read your medical history, my birth notes from the first hospital are all horribly biased anyways. (They said I refused to feed my baby, which was the worst lie ever)

 

I have an appointment there on Friday, so now I have to go up there twice this week if I go.

 

DH is sleeping, it is night time for him, so we'll talk when he gets up.

 

I am thinking I am going to either ask that they chose a different date for the meeting, or tell them that they can send me information in the mail and I will be happy to initial it, date it, sign it and return it, so they can make sure that I fully understand.

 

The bottom line is that DH has to be there, to keep me from getting emotional and to help me advocate for myself. And I am not going to sign up/consent for a 3rd scheduled c-section, unless I think it is the right thing to do.

 

Thank you so much, I have calmed down considerably!!!

:grouphug:

 

You sound well-informed about your choices, and I'm glad you're taking your dh (if you go).

[Murphy101]

This issue is rather near and dear to me, given that my first two children owe their very lives to skilled surgeons and trained medical professionals. I realize that c-sections are looked upon by some as settling for less, a cop-out, an unnecessary surgery relied upon in the face of potential liability, and so and so forth. But I've been around the block enough to cringe when people so breezily suggest a woman simply try to go it alone, regardless of her medical history.

 

With all due respect, THIS issue is not near and dear to you. It has nothing to do with you at all. THIS issue is about a woman who wants a VBAC and does not feel she needs a c/s at this time. That is NOT your issue.

 

No one has said having a c/s is a wrong or less motherly thing to decide on or that there aren't genuine medical reasons to do it. THAT is your issue, not the OPs or of anyone else who has posted so far as I can tell.

 

If you needed a c/s, then I'm thrilled you got the medical care you needed when you needed it. That doesn't mean that any woman who doesn't want one or who doesn't have a medical reason for one is being irresponsible or ignorant by refusing to sign up for it.

 

I just think it is very important to remember the health of the baby and mother while possibly putting aside ideologies and dreams.

 

I agree. My 3rd was a very neccessary c/s. I've had 5 VBACs and this baby will most likely be my first homebirth (assited with very expereinced midwife and within 5 minutes of 3 major hospitals) because I refuse to be railroaded into an UNneccessary surgery. I want another VBAC because a c/s is a major surgery and has it's own health risks that I would like to avoid unless neccessary. Also, current medical practice means that if I were to have another c/s for any reason, I would have basicly zero chance of ever having a VBAC with future pregnancies. At this time, a c/s is more dangerous to my personal health now and future deliveries than a VBAC. If that changes, then so will my thoughts on the matter.

 

No a c/s is not the end of the world. Again no one here has ever said it was either. Having my appendex removed wouldn't be the end of the world either, but I'm not going to sign up to have it done unless I need to have it done. And if I should need to have it removed, then I'll be glad to do so when the need arrives.

 

A c/s IS a major surgery and I don't understand why pregnant women are not allowed the same respect to make the decision to go under the knife or to not go under it as any other patient should be given for any other surgery.

 

Hm. I think we have to be very careful to offer across the board advice from either "side". The truth is that labor, birth and early infancy are unique to the location, medical support staff, baby and Mom.

 

"C-sections are life savers" as well as "have your baby at home" are broad, inaccurate statements.

 

There are plenty of unnecessary hospital protocol that creates the "need" for a c-section. There are plenty of "natural birth" advococates that embrace non intervention to a dangerous level.

 

There is *not* a right answer in this regard. It reminds me, somewhat, of my ultrasound experience. Due to a personal experience with a false positive ultrasound diagnosis, *I* would never, ever do another ultrasound for pregnancy. It was *absolutely* the right decision for me. That doesn't make ultrasound wrong; my situation was just an example of the potential problems inherent with routine u/s in pregnancy. It's the same with hospital, birth center, homebirth, c-section, scheduled/elective c-sections, unassisted birth. Across the board statements hurt rather than help.

 

I trust the OP to have done *her* research for her situation and the related research about the issue at hand. I know I would feel imposed on, stressed, scared and anxious if I were dealing with her set of circumstances!

 

 

I competely 100% agree!

[milovany]

Great post. I followed the thread and didn't reply until late in the game; I knew it would morph into a thread about c-section in *general* (with personal experiences backing up the reasons why c/s is necessary at times) when in my understanding, Philothea just wanted to vent about a turn of events on her probably well-researched road to a VBA2C.

 

A c/s IS a major surgery and I don't understand why pregnant women are not allowed the same respect to make the decision to go under the knife or to not go under it as any other patient should be given for any other surgery.

 

And I love this quote from your post -- amen! Nobody should be forced to have a surgery they do not want to have.

 

Sadly, it does happen. :thumbdown:

[lighthouseacademy]

 

On the other hand, women who have been subjected to unnecessary c-sections (and I agree that there are instances where c-sections are unnecessary),

 

I have had 3 babies at home. I know for a fact that number 1 and number 3, had they been in the hospital would have turned into emergency csections. Every medical professional I have spoken with agrees with me on this. In MY case, surgery was DEFINITELY not necessary nor were my baby nor I EVER at risk at any time during my labor or birth. That said, because of the progression of both of those labors, I would have been subject to a whole host of interventions to get me going with the textbooks and I would have ended up with a baby in distress. My 2nd would have been born in the driveway or in the car. Everyone has to decide for themselves what works for them. Not all csections are unnecessary, but I do believe that at least 90% are- There are truly only about 5-10% of births that truly NEED a csection unless you throw in a ton of interventions... then things change. I am glad for all the women who are grateful for their csections and feel blessed to have had one. I know far more women who resent them because deep down they don't feel like they had a choice and they don't feel like they were TRULY necessary (necessary at the moment but wouldn't have been necessary if __________).

 

To the OP, I hope your meeting goes well.