It's been my observation that early readers continue to improve and remain good readers. But, it doesn't necessarily follow that a child who learns to read late is doomed forever to poor reading ability. Dd learned to read almost effortlessly at age 5. It was like she woke up one day and knew how to read. Now 12, she reads very well. For her older brother, though, it was a different story. At the beginning of third grade he was plodding through "Frog and Toad" and I thought I was a homeschool failure. An experienced homeschooling mom talked me down from the ceiling and told me to keep plugging along. By the end of third grade he was reading the Narnia books independently. We've done TOG since his 5th grade year, and he's always handled the reading just fine. He's now 14, and he's up in his room now reading "Of Mice and Men" (which isn't necessarily a difficult read, but he does enjoy reading and comprehends well). I can think of several examples of "late" readers who eventually became excellent readers who enjoyed reading. But when I think of all the early readers I know, they all remained good readers and stayed ahead of the pack.

:blush: You know, I almost didn't post because I figured I really hadn't given the DE enough of a chance to speak intelligently about it. I clicked on a few things, gave up, and went to my beloved print version. Thanks for the tip. And sorry for the misinformation. :)

1. They don't involve a screen 2. As far as toys go, they are a bit more on the wholesome/educational side 3. A large span of ages can play with them 4. Many kids really do like them (my girl is the biggest Lego fan in the family). 5. Very few people object to them. I have some friends who don't do TV, some who don't do video games, some who don't do Harry Potter, some who don't do toy guns, swords, or war games. But I've yet to meet anyone who has a moral objection to Legos. Put all those together, and it's easy to see why a lot of homeschoolers embrace them. My kids really do like Legos, but I've probably encouraged that love more than I have with any other toy.

I've only had the digital for about 3 weeks now, but so far it hasn't replaced the print version in my mind and heart. :tongue_smilie: I bought both because it was only 20 dollars more to get the print, and I knew I would spend way more than that on toner if I decided to print it myself. And I fully admit that the problem may be my computer. All the weeks are separate files, and so I have to open up a new file to look at a different week. It takes the new file about 5 seconds to open up on MY computer (might be different on other computers, though. My machine is getting old and slowing down.) I can flip the tab to another week on the printed version quite a bit faster. Also, when I want to quickly check something, like what week a certain book is used, it seems faster to pull the binder off the shelf rather than turning on the computer and pulling up the file. Do you read the teacher's notes each week? Are you going to print those out? That's another thing to think about. I will say, though, that most people seem to prefer the digital. I'm always a little different about those things.

:iagree: My family supports homeschooling, but if my ds goes to public school next year as planned, there will likely be a much bigger reaction from both grandmas. Not because they're favoring him, but because, like Abbey said, going to a brick and mortar school is more stressful.

A couple of years ago a friend of ours drowned in the ocean. He was a good swimmer, but he got caught in a current and his strength gave out. Like others said, I'm not sure about currents in the Chesapeake, so it may be different. But when we go to the ocean, I'm continually preaching to my kids not to go too far, what to do if they get caught in a riptide, etc. I don't know a lot about boats, but we live near the Mississippi River, and occasionally a smaller boat gets caught in the wake of a bigger boat and gets pulled under. I would think that the same thing would happen with a boat and a swimmer.

I schedule the reading based on the teacher's manual, and they do the reading independenty. I *try* to discuss each day's reading assignments with them using the discussion questions, but I'll be honest, it doesn't always happen. We review orally at the end of each chapter, and then I use the tests. I pick and choose the best experiments out of each book and everyone kind of joins in, whether it's something they've studied recently or not. We've been using BJU science for a couple of years now, and they've both done well this way. It's not perfect, I know, but science if finally getting done consistently. I rely heavily on the discussion questions, answers, and schedules in the TM, and I would have a harder time keeping up if I didn't have them.

But they do deploy. My niece's husband's National Guard Unit got deployed to Afganistan, and a high school friend who is in the National Guard is currently in Afganistan for a year. When I was growing up they told people that the Guard wouldn't send them overseas, but that was 20 years ago and times have changed. Another high school friend did her training over two summers, before and after our senior year. Then I think she had to drill one weekend a month and a few weeks over the summer every year while she was in. Hope you can get some more answers that pertain to homeschooling.

My kids enjoyed the Bruce Coville version at that age. Your library may have it.

Our local ps doesn't do Physical Science until 9th grade. Some kids who anticipate science-heavy majors and want time to do AP science classes later double up and take both Biology and Physical Science their 9th grade year (or Biology and Chemistry in 10th), but most don't get to biology until 10th.

I understand TOG's intent on having them write out their answers for the discussion questions, but we've got enough other stuff going on, so I don't push that. We do all our discussions orally. Remember, the beauty of TOG is that you can adjust things to fit what works for your family. If you want to do the D level books and do the discussions orally, that's your choice. Especially since your ds is young and has other challenges to work through right now.

At the time it seemed like the thing to do, but I can't remember why I thought so. LOL. I really liked those resources.

Could you just switch to the assigned textbook readings instead? TOG has Spielvogel"s Western Civilazation scheduled as their alternate (can't remember if you said whether she was doing R or D). If you don't want to do a college level text, you could drop down to Spielvogel's Human Odyssey. Much of Human Odyssey is word for word with Western Civ, just pared down. Like I said on the other board, TOG is hard going at the point where you are now. There very well may be another curriculum out there that's a better fit, but the middle of Year 2 is much more overwhelming than anything I've seen in Years 1 or 3. And, if you finish Year 2, you can take the summer to decide, rather than trying to quickly find something mid-stream. I tend to want to ditch everything and start over in February, too. And, truth be told, I have recently switch my youngest's math writing programs, so I'm not immune. But like the other poster said, you have a lot invested in TOG right now, and maybe in a couple of months you'll all feel better about the whole thing.

My kids are like yours. They can read for hours, so if they're saying they're overwhelmed, they mean it. At that point, I cut out all the in-depth reading and just stuck to the core readings. During discussion time, I just filled in using the teacher's notes anything they didn't know. I love TOG, but if there is one thing I wish they had done differently, I wish they had divided up the time periods a bit differently. There is a LOT crammed into year two. That said, though, we are enjoying Year 3 and its focus on US history, so I guess it does even out.

That worked like a charm here. Bedtime was at 8. I gave ds and dd the option of going to bed, or staying up until 9 to read. They read.

I also recommend TOG. I feel like it emphasizes US history, but still fits it in the framework of world history. TOG is definitely not open and go. TOG emphasizes sitting down with you child each week as they decide how much they will need to read each day to get it all in. I haven't started that yet. :blushing: I just divide it up over the days we're doing school and put it into Homeschool Tracker. This is my 3rd year with TOG, and this year I took time over the summer to get the entire year planned out. It's worked so much better for me. Now that I have a case of the "Februaries" it's nice that I don't have to plan. Also, I don't do nearly everything that TOG recommends. Some days I miss Sonlight's open and go lesson plans, but TOG works far better for us. I love the teacher's notes and the discussion questions.

I just switched my youngest (2nd grade) to R&S math. He needed more repetition and drill, and R&S has been wonderful for him. Now I'm looking ahead to grade 3, when R&S switches from workbook format to textbook. This son has dyslexia and and fine motor delays, so making him copy all the problems out of the book is just not going to happen. He struggles enough without adding that kind of exasperation. Have any of you used the textbook as a workbook for grade 3? I have a copy of the 4th grade R&S math text that I picked up at a library sale, and the problems are so close together I think it would be hard to use as a workbook. Is there more white space in the 3rd grade text? I've even considered cutting the binding off and enlarging the pages on a copier (I know that's technically a copyright violation, but I promise I wouldn't resell it after that). Would that be possible?

:iagree:

About a year ago TOG decided to get out of the book-selling business and focus on the curriculum. A homeschool family in Tennessee bought the book-selling part of the business, so it's on its own website. There's not really a list per se, but you can view them by level and subject. HTH

I was in a pilot group, so we did Philippians, Colossians, and Ruth (not part of the normal cycle, just part of the pilot) The homework didn't seem too bad. You're supposed to do it with the child. There were a few questions that he couldn't do, since he was not reading yet. I seem to recall a few that asked how many times Paul used a particular word in a passage, that sort of thing. I just gave him the answer and went on. My 10-year-old pretty much did it on her own, but she's my self-motivated, responsible child (I'm so thankful that I was blessed with at least one like that). My kids liked it. You may already know this, but BSF has a lot of rules (although they will call them guidelines). I get that these guidelines are necessary for the consistency of the courses, and that anytime you have a large group of people you need rules, etc., but my kids thought some of them were bizarre. This class met at our own church, so they were very comfortable there, and had a hard time wrapping their heads around all the rules about things like going to the bathroom (they couldn't go unattended). These didn't make them dislike the classes, but they found them amusing. Anyway, we all enjoyed the class. We probably would have continued but it met on Mondays, which is just a bad night for us. Plus, we're so busy in the evenings with church, sports, and music lessons, tying up another weeknight was just too much. I may join the daytime class one of these years, after I retire from homeschooling. :)

When my Kindergarten teacher tried to tell me that "pen" was not pronounced "pin," I thought she was nuts. I still catch myself saying "hin" instead of "hen" and "pin" instead of "pen." My kids had trouble with it, too. Once they got older, they understood the difference, but we still don't always pronounce it correctly. I'm not trying to make light of it. Just wanted to illustrate that even though my kids live in an area where the short "e" sound is rarely pronounced correctly, they eventually understood the difference.

Sonlight is open and go. I think that's one of its strengths, that it's so open and go, but yet literature-based.

That's part of why I say TOG is hard to explain. When I type this all out, it's going to sound complicated, but when you have the curriculum, it's clear. This is what I do. For D level history, I first look at the main history readings. If a book is used for 3 weeks or more, I usually buy it. If it's really expensive I try to find it at the library. For books that I use for less than 3 weeks, I use the library. If I can't find it at the library, I see how much else we have to do that week. If there's already a lot scheduled, I usually drop it. Since SOTW is scheduled as an alternative, I may just use that that week. If it's already a heavy week, we don't do the history in-depth. We're in Unit 3 of Year 3. So far, the vast majority of our history reading for D have been in _This Country of Ours_ and _Abraham Lincoln's World_. We've also used _Our Island Story_ quite a bit. Both TCOO and OIS were used last year, so I didn't have to buy them this year. I buy most of the lit. A couple of times I've gone with the alternative lit selection because I thought it sounded like something we would enjoy more. The lit worksheets are geared for that week's specific book, but a lot of the time I can still make it work. Most of the D worksheets ask questions about conflict and such, so I can use that as a springboard to discuss the alternate book (I just have to know the answer. LOL) I buy very little for the grammar stage. If they don't have the suggested book about the Underground Railroad, for instance, I just use what my library has. I haven't taught R level yet, but you're going to need most of the TOG literature (there's a breakdown on the TOG website as to how much of the lit you need to do to be able to give hs lit credit. 80% maybe? Doing all the lit would be an honors credit). Printing the samples on the website is a good start, but I still think it's hard to get the big picture from that. I've loaned out my units to people to peruse, and most of them have an, "OH, I see!" moment after they have to the whole unit in hand to see.

I totally get that not every curriculum works for every child. I have three kids and they all have used different curricula for different subjects from time to time. I'm probably going to stick with FLL for 3rd grade for my youngest. I'm also considering CLE grammar for him. He's just an entirely different animal than his siblings. :) I just wanted to clarify that I agree that there's too much info in Chapter 1 of the 7th grade book. I just didn't want people giving up on the entire book based on chapter 1. For us, it got much better. The "brains not in gear" was not meant to be a complete explanation of why he struggled with it, but why I almost enrolled him in ps that week. LOL. There is some review in R&S (both oral review in the TM and at the end of the student exercises), but not much. If you're looking for a spiral approach, R&S is definitely not your curriculum. I'm not on the boards that much anymore, and I feel like when I do pop up here I spend all my time defending TOG and R&S grammar and then I disappear. LOL. I'm honestly not trying to be a R&S apologist. I just wanted to make sure that people look past chapter 1 of the 6th grade books on up before they make the final call whether it's right for their families.

As for a comparison, VP's Omnibus sounds somewhat similar. I haven't actually *seen* Omnibus, though, so I'm not sure. As for the cost, I spent more when I used Sonlight than I do with TOG. We have a pretty good library, so that helps a lot. It's also easier to substitute books in TOG than it first appears. There have only been a couple of times when a substituted book didn't have the information we needed for a discussion question. I just explained it to the kids from the teacher's notes and went on. TOG is just hard to explain. You really have to use it for awhile to get a good feel for it. I cut out a lot of what TOG suggests. You could probably make a case that what I'm doing is not cost effective. I am the type of person who finds it easy to eliminate things, but I'm lousy at supplementing. My dc are better served if I stick with a curriculum that's overkill and simplify it than if I try to flesh out a simpler curriculum.