Is this a normal public school experience?

[mom32boys]

I apologize for introducing a public school topic, but we're transitioning from homeschooling to public school. I'm just wondering what those of you who've taught at public schools or who've had kids there think of our experience.

 

We've homeschooled for four years, and have been planning to put our kids (grades 4, 6, and 7) back in public school next year for various reasons. It's a long story, but basically our younger two wanted to go back the last quarter or so of this year too. We live in a relatively small town: the 4th grade has 2 classes of almost 30 kids each, while the 6th grade class at the middle school has less than 150 kids.

 

Greatschools rates the elementary school a 6 and the middle school (and high school) an 8.

 

In one month that they've been in school:

Math - HW has come home only once or twice for each kid. My 4th grader doesn't have math every day, and if they do have it, it's a short worksheet covering things he learned at the beginning of the year in Saxon. The week that he enrolled, my 6th grader was the only kid in 6th grade to score 100 on the cumulative math test the teacher gave (not to brag - he's good at math, but not a math genius). She pulled him aside and asked him what curriculum he'd used, etc. She told him she wanted to put him in the honors class for the rest of the year, but there wasn't room. He can do the honors/ gifted class next year. However, honors doesn't mean much because they don't offer Algebra I in 8th (the track I've had my kids on). The honors track in high school is Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra II, and AP Calculus (you read correctly - no trig or analytical geometry before Calc.- and it's all on a block schedule, so they only have math one semester each year. I've recently been told by several people that kids from our county who go to college fair poorly in college level math).

 

English - I've seen no English HW and have heard very little about any grammar being covered in class. My 4th grader has had one actual writing assignment; it wasn't graded and zero feedback was given. My 6th grader has had no writing assignments. He did tell me that his English teacher plans to focus on public speaking the rest of the school year. My 4th grader has no required reading. My 6th grader has an actual Reading class separate from English. He was supposed to read a certain number of hours over 2 weeks. He told me yesterday that half the kids didn't do it, so the teacher just gave extra credit to those who did. They're not reading a book together as a class.

 

Science/ History - No History HW for either kid. Science HW once or twice. No labs for either kid. 4th grader has done a few weather worksheets in class. 6th grader tells me they watch a lot of science and history movies and do some assignments in class.

 

Is this normal for public school? Or maybe, I should ask is this normal for the last quarter of school? In middle school, I had math homework every night (even or odds out of the book from the lesson we learned). I had grammar HW almost every night, and relatively frequent writing assignments. We did science labs and had history and science assignments. We had to memorize poems.

 

I just don't know...

 

Thanks so much for any input!

[dmmm]

Being that the US is a huge territory, you are going to have answers from both extremes of the spectrum. Is it typical? Not from what I personally know from my district. However, I think a better question would be is it typical for your area, and if you are not satisfied, what are your options?

[TraceyS/FL]

Probably "normal" for those schools. The 4th grader I watch 1-2 times a week at a Charter school here only has a page of math on those nights, although apparently this week with FCAT she also had a project to do and didn't mention it. I wouldn't say that the Charter SChool has it together better than my kids in regular public school.

 

That said, I don't think you need hours of homework a night either - IF the work is getting done during the school day.

 

Your kids are ahead of the schools there, it happens. Heck, my Special Needs DD was ahead of what they expected her to be able to do, they didn't know what to do with her when she entered!

 

Basically, I haven't been impressed with the public schools here....

 

This week I learned that my 2nd grader is not ALLOWED to use the dictionary in class. THey have them, but they can't even touch them - if something needs to be looked up, the teacher does it and puts it on the overhead. If they touch the dictionaries - they get in trouble.....

 

BUT, they did read a book about how to USE a dictionary. So, there is that!!

[Ravin]

You might want to have a chat with the schools about advancing your children a grade, if the school is that far behind where they're at.

[Murphy101]

Sadly, yes, it is rather common.

[Mélie]

My son is only in kindergarten, but from what I've heard from parents of older kids at his school, that would be fairly typical here. The schools here are very relaxed until 7th grade. We plan to afterschool through elementary school anyway, so it might end up working in our favour.

[2_girls_mommy]

The math seems very UNtypical from what little experience I have here. (Nieces and friends in a couple of different districts in our state, plus a brief period of working w/kids in an afterschool program where I helped them w/their homework this year.) The biggest district here uses Saxon. Most kids have homework of some sort daily starting in like 2nd grade. Alg I is started for some kids as early as 7th grade, but definitely by 8th.

 

As for the writing, science, and history, I don't know. It is very different from my experience as a child in a good, small public school. We wrote daily, had science texts, learned ancient history as well as American History and social studies, etc. But things could be very different now. That was a long time ago :) I won't say how long...

[SKL]

I am surprised about the math and the fact that every kid isn't expected to read at home. In my experience math class is is every day of the year.

[Arcadia]

It depends on when state testing is and when is the last day of school. The month before state testing here tends to be test prep so homework if any are test prep style. Two weeks before last day of school is wind down time so homework is rare too. The rest of the year, there is daily homework (from 2nd grade) and weekly homework as well as monthly projects for the public schools here. Science gets rarely done from k to 5 because LA and math are emphasized for testing purposes. For 6-8, the kids go to science room/lab for science class so it gets done on a weekly basis. No science or history homework but there is an annual science fair project and history project for middle school. That is for my school district though and it varies by district.

[Paige]

It doesn't sound unusual. Could it be that your children are finishing their homework before coming home? If the work is easy, they'd have plenty of time in down times, on the bus, or in car rider line, to do a page or two of easy math. It would help if you could find out what curricula your school is using. I found DS who is pretty average in math at home was about 2 grades ahead of his peers in school. They used a notoriously bad math program and it showed as the kids were struggling with basic things. I know from my 3rd graders' work that the material had already been covered, but covering something doesn't mean it was learned. We did have almost nightly math homework, however.

 

In my experience, there is almost no grammar being taught beyond nouns and verbs these days. My son was in PS 5th for 6 weeks and he said they were working on separating simple subject and predicates.

 

I think required reading in older grades is rare. In the schools we've been a part of, they encourage AR testing so kids who are motivated do it on their own and kids who aren't don't have to. DS said that they were only reading excerpts of books at school and he had no required reading outside of that.

 

I am quite surprised that my K DD who is still in school does not have any required reading as that has not been the case in any of our other K classes.

 

They don't have time Science anymore. I was stressed about slacking on it myself, but when I found what the PS was doing I realized we were still doing more. I think my kids were getting history in social studies but it was really broad and light. It was American history only for 3rd and 5th grades. My DS had an actual Social Studies book and he had class every day.

[Kathryn]

I don't know that it's all that unusual. I did have nightly math homework at those ages, though not always reading or language arts, and especially not science or history. What I would not like is having only a semester of math each year.

[Spy Car]

Not typical of our experience.

 

My child (now in 3rd Grade) has generally had math homework everyday. Fridays were the exception in K-2, but this year we have a challenging "Problem of the Week" that requires some thought and a written re-statement of the problem, and written showing of the strategy used to sold the problem, an extensive explanation of why/how the strategy worked, and lastly the solution (including explaining if there could be more than one solution (or not). The POW is due the next Friday, but we always do it over the week end.

 

Here math adept students often start algebra in 7th Grade. 8th is standard for all but remedial students.

 

At this age Language Arts/Grammar homework worksheets come home 3 times a week. They also have assigned time with an on-line program called "Lexia," my son is currently enjoying the components on Greek, Latin, and Anglo-Saxon roots. Additionally they have a fair amount of writing. I strongly prefer the Michael Clay Thompson (MCT) we use at home (afterscholling) to the "workbooky" LA books used in the school, which I find dry and limited in creativity.

 

They do science units, and I've been pleasantly surprised science has not been an area of total neglect. I would like more (and more rigorous) attention to the subject.

 

History has been the weakest subject IMO. It has been the typical "scatter shot" approach, moving in "themes" according to the calander of the school year, rather than attempting any sort of chronological cycle of ancient-to-modern history in elementary school.

 

Bill

[Laura Corin]

I personally wouldn't judge a school by how much homework it gives to young children. I had no homework at all until I was eleven - it all depends on how and how well the school runs.

 

Other things that you mention are more of a concern.

 

Laura

[Lanny]

>so they only have math one semester each year. I've recently been told by several people that kids from our county who go to >college fair poorly in college level math).

 

Math only one semester each school year? That, alone, would be a very good reason to contemplate a different method of schooling for your DC, IMHO.

 

>my 6th grader has had no writing assignments. He did tell me that his English teacher plans to focus on public speaking the rest >of the school year.

 

I don't know what state you are in, but my DD is in 6th grade (Distance Learning from TTUISD), and she has lots of writing to do, for her assignments. Public speaking will not prepare one for all of the writing that is required in high school and university, IMHO.

[NittanyJen]

I would be delighted at the lack of homework. Homework has absolutely zero place in an elementary or early middle school education-- it does not teach young children study or work habits, but it does rob them of what very little play time they have available after school is over. Play is so important during these years, as is family time, free time, time to read for pleasure... time not generally dictated by the school. Homework assigned during these years only means the school is too disorganized and chaotic to accomplish its goals in a 7 hour day. When my kids were public school, the first grade teacher for DS1 would assign 90 minutes or more of homework, and I would just say, "No way, this is our time."

 

I would say the less homework a school is assigning youngsters, the better.

 

 

[momtoamiracle]

they do more work than that here in first grade.

[mom32boys]

Thank you to all of you. I appreciate the variety of comments. Sounds like there are definitely some better public schools out there. We are looking at different options. I was just really surprised (and disappointed) by the academics, and you all have validated those perceptions.

 

Just realized that I should have probably posted this in the General Ed. forum - sorry!

[jennynd]

DS also 3rd grade and do have math homework everyday and spelling homework every week. Not so much science nor social study homework but they do have project from time to time.

[snowbeltmom]

 

Math only one semester each school year? That, alone, would be a very good reason to contemplate a different method of schooling for your DC, IMHO.

 

:iagree:

Our high school is on a block schedule. I have been told it is cheaper for the district because they only need to purchase half the number of textbooks. Imo, math, English and foreign languages should not be on a block schedule because many times a student may have one of these subjects 1st semester of 9th grade and not have the subject again until 2nd semester of 10th grade.

 

It is also difficult for the students who have an AP class the first semester since they have to wait 5 months to take the exam in May.

[Pen]

Way more homework than that at our local school (too much IMO), almost none at a friend's school. They read around 90 minutes per day in school to grade 6, with the kids going to the level they fit in at, don't know what at our local school, but friend who is a 4th grader reading with the 5th graders is reading Wizard of Oz. In high school they are taking literature, so far as I know, unless they are remedial/special ed students. The state requires "health" for science, it seems, so unless they add on another science as an elective, that may be all they take, so far as I can tell, and it seems they often prefer to have a study hall instead of an elective science. History gets a pretty big focus starting around 4th with state history, and seems to be integrated with other language arts areas such as writing, which is on the history being studied. I see a lot of project reports on the walls that look similar to some form of notebooking or lapbooking or whatever it is called. But also in elementary I see that with things that might be considered science, such as study of the native plants and animals.

 

The city schools nearish get a lot more than we do (we are actually rural, not even a small town) in terms of academic offerings--but also have larger class sizes.

 

Even fewer options than that for math at our local high school (though it is year round), I believe, but kids can take college courses if they exhaust the local offerings. Also the kids who tend to be in the honors maths, also tend to take TAG offerings in summer school at a local college--that is probably how they would be expected to get something missing like pre-calculus.

 

Homeschoolers tend to move way ahead of the B&M schoolers around here. Also, states are at different levels. I had things that gave standards for California, and then discovered that our local schools and state seem to require a good bit less than CA does, even though there are supposed to be nationwide norms. So for example, when I showed a local teacher something that my ds was having trouble with that was a CA requirement for our grade, she told me that that is way ahead of what they are doing here in that subject in that grade.

 

State testing in the public schools here is around this time of the year, and much else stops. Our state test allows 3 tries to pass it--so it starts early to accommodate that, but then some children are still testing and gone from regular classes for week after week--especially since computers are used, and the scheduling is tight for who can get on when (most classes can get a whole class on computers at once, but 2 whole classes cannot go on at once). Further, I've been told by a teacher that she hates the testing because even once it is done with for all the children in the class for the year, the kids then feel like the year is over because they've done their end of year state's tests, thus it is hard to get them to focus for what is still a significant amount of the school year after that. She said a lot of teachers end doing things like films or working in the school garden, or on a special topic (could be like the public speaking) for the end of the year.

[kiwik]

I agree homework for more than about 10 mins a day is unnecessary. The problem I have is the only homework my son gets (y2/g1) is maths fact to 10 and spelling words. This gives me absolutely no information about what they do at school. There is also no textbook or parent friendly curriculum. Sorry venting again. Am super annoyed today.

[Laura Corin]

I agree homework for more than about 10 mins a day is unnecessary. The problem I have is the only homework my son gets (y2/g1) is maths fact to 10 and spelling words. This gives me absolutely no information about what they do at school. There is also no textbook or parent friendly curriculum. Sorry venting again. Am super annoyed today.

 

 

It's a big shock not to know what our children are doing all day, especially if we have been involved in every detail previously. I've taken a deep breath and stepped back. There have been a few surprises - when I've learned late about an issue that I would have preferred to be involved with earlier - but it was all manageable.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[raceNzanesmom]

Our oldest was in ps K-6. He rarely had homework, even for his tag classes. It was assigned, but he nearly always finished at school.

 

All 3 of our high schools are on block scheduling. Works great for some classes, not at all for others.

[Butter]

Not normal at all for what my friends report from our local schools. However, there is quite a bit of evidence that homework in the elementary years is not useful at all.

[RootAnn]

There is a big difference in requirements between the elementary school down-the-block and the one 15-20 minutes down the road. I know of two families who have transferred from the local to the farther away one and both agreed to have at least one of their kids "held" back a grade.

 

The math & writing things would concern me. There is plenty of writing at our local school, but it all revolves around whatever they have to do for the writing portion of the state test. (In 4th, they have to write a "personal narrative." So, all the 4th grade teacher does for writing that year is teach how to write a personal narrative & they practice all year round. One of the teachers prides himself on having 100% of his kids pass the writing exam.)

 

I know our local high school has issues with having "room" for kids who come into the district who need to be in the honors math. There isn't always a place for them.

[TraceyS/FL]

I know our local high school has issues with having "room" for kids who come into the district who need to be in the honors math. There isn't always a place for them.

 

Our local elementary school is the one that most parents tried to get into on a waiver.... and at the end of last year they had to tell all those kids they couldn't return this year because of over-crowding. Even with that they had to add another K and 3rd grade class! (and, boy were those parents PISSED when they were in the office demanding to know what "this letter means". Yikes!)

 

But the interesting thing about that was that it finally dawned on me why the car line was so short in the afternoons.... because the waiver kids weren't there! It used to be by 2:30 for a 3:00 dismissal the line was out the parking lot and onto the road. Which stunk because you didn't like to turn your car off on the road you know? Now I can get there at 2:55 and still be in the parking lot!

 

The charter school in the area does the intense personal narrative writing thing from what I have seen. Overall, I always wanted my kids to go there - but after seeing and hearing about the 4th grade this year, i'm so NOT impressed. At least I've heard of nothing worth the 15-20 minutes drive, the purchasing of uniforms, and the work hours anyway....

[Targhee]

Not typical of our experience. Kids were treated as misfits for being advanced (and bored) and not offered to be accelerated or but in GT program, 90 min of language arts starting in 2nd grade math every day,, daily homework in spelling math and reading...

[MtnMama]

My son is in 1st grade at what is considered in this area to be a good public school. They spend 4 hours out of the 6 1/2 hour school day doing reading, writing, grammar, spelling, and math. The other 2 1/2 hours are spent on science, art, music, PE, or media (each once per week for 1 hour) and lunch and recess (1 1/2 hour total). He brings math and spelling homework home on Friday and has to turn it in by the following Friday. There isn't much, and the math is way too easy, but that's OK with me because it gives me more time to afterschool with a more challenging math program, along with history and science. We also do tons of reading (both to each other and to ourselves). I look at PS as a great place to practice all of the things that we are learning at home :).

[morgan]

Don't forget that a lot of the workload is going to depend on the particular teacher you have. I've asked parents of twins and always been told same grade + same school does not really equal same education. I am sure there are some great public school teachers out there, but the more work they give the more they have to grade. In our experience with public school, the larger the class size the less work they really accomplish. I am sure this is due to many factors.

 

Sadly, your experience is fairly typical of what I would expect in my area. When one of my daughter's friends first explained her high school block schedule to me I almost fell over... 3/4 of the year with no math?