Help me sort out my feelings about the standardized test results.

[Meriwether]

This has upset me a lot. Not the test score itself. Ds8's vocab score was only slightly better, and I am happy for him. I am upset because I completely misjudged how well she would do on a vocabulary test. I overestimated her ability. The other tests were not given. What if I have overestimated her abilities across the board? I thought I knew how she was doing. Now I am doubting virtually everything. Her abilities, my abilities, my methods. She might have done better with some test prep (something besides a 15 minute fill-in-the-bubble practice), but for something like vocabulary, she should know the words however they were presented, right? I'm not sure what to think. I only know that I feel sick, like I have failed her. Should I test them this spring to see how they are doing now? We had really just started our school year when they took the test last fall.

 

I don't know what my point is really, but I am doubting my judgment right now, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

 

Edited to remove some of the info about my kids.

 

Thanks for the replies.

[SarahW]

If your kids have studied things that the test writers would not expect, tests can be tricky.

 

Until I reached "terminal" tests, like the ACT or GRE, I would usually have to pause before I answered a test question and think "what am I expected to answer here?" On the vocab test your daughter may have simply chosen a more creative answer, the one that would have created an unexpected word-play, rather than the one that was technically correct.

 

Do you do textbook tests for the curriculum you use? This may help them understand how to give the answer that the question is looking for.

[Farrar]

Those are good scores. And it's probably much more about her lack of practice with standardized tests than anything else. Sometimes when kids actually know more - in this case, have a better grasp of the nuances of meaning in the words - then the overly simplistic questions can be much more difficult. And remember that it's a percentile, not a percent correct. She may have missed only one or two questions. In fact, if the questions were really easy mostly, then that might have worked against her because many kids could have gotten them all correct, which brings down her percentile score.

[8filltheheart]

I would completely NOT be upset. Sometimes kids that know more than what is expected read more into the questions and see multiple options as the answer. Sometimes the issue is that the vocabulary connects with PC ps education and may not be relevant to what your child has been exposed to, etc.

 

If it would make you feel better, purchase a different standardized test (or read some of them that are available online from former yrs) and look at the types of questions, assess how you think your child would do with them, and if still in doubt, ask them the questions and see how they respond and why they answered the way they did.

 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

So let me start with this, "You are not a bad mom and you have not failed your kids." Rather, you have one test result at a young age in an unfamiliar setting that may or may not be aligned with what they have studied. This is not something to despair over.

 

If you know what test was given, it would help people give better feedback on the results.

 

One thing that you need to look at is what the percentages reflect. In most standardized tests, the percentile given is not the number right on the test. Instead the percentile shows how one particular child would be ranked against other students of the same grade taking the same test. So a 90 percentile score means that the child scored better than 89% of the other students taking the test. (Depending on the test, that could mean all sorts of things about how many questions were answered correctly.) And to put this into perspective, HALF OF THE STUDENTS TAKING THE TEST WILL BE AT THE 50TH PERCENTILE OR LOWER. A score in the 70th percentile is not something to get worried about.

 

Another caution about any results that mention grade level. On most tests, this does not mean that a student is reading or doing math on the grade level given. It means that the student had a similar set of correct answers to an XX grader who would have taken the same test. (Let me put numbers on this. A second grader takes a test and gets a score in reading marked 6th grade. That would mean than they got the same level of correct answers that a 6th grader would -- if the 6th grader had taken the 2nd grade test. It does not necessarily mean that the 2nd grader would do as well as a 6th grader on a 6th grade test.

 

You mentioned that you thought that your daughter should have known everything on one of the subtests. This isn't necessarily the case. Tests often include items that go well above the target grade in order to have room to measure students who are working at higher levels. And sometimes public school curriculum have very different scope and sequence than typical homeschool curriculum. For example, many algebra texts include a lengthy section on probability and statistics. Lower grade level books might have graphing or early algebra and the test might reflect this broader sampling of topics.

 

My kids have taken a number of tests over the years and I've proctored a few (mostly Stanford Achievement Test and CAT, but also some subject specific tests). Sometimes in order to focus on testing a particular skill the test items can be rather odd. For example vocabulary might depend on matching a word to a picture or picking the best word to complete a sentence. If the student looks at the picture and sees sack or backpack or bag, instead of purse then they might not get the item right. Or if they like detailed, quirky answers it might be more challenging for them to come up with the simpler answers that most test items at lower grades are looking for. (One of my kids was once asked in an assessment, "What is a cow?" He answered, "It has four stomachs.")

 

What to do next.

 

First, I would not share the test results with kids this young. I might tell them that the test gives you some ideas of interesting things to study over the next school year. Don't make a big deal of it. It is at best a snapshot, not destiny. You don't have a reason to panic or feel like a failure over the results and they most certainly do not need to feel like they failed the test - because they didn't.

 

If you are now wondering if there are areas that you need to cover, it might be worth asking for a detailed breakdown of the test results if available. For example, did the test use the words synonym and antonym or did it ask them to identify words that were the same or the opposite as the sample word. If a student didn't know synonym it would give poor results.

 

Another thing you can do is work through a test prep booklet to see if there are gaps that you want to cover. (Keeping in mind that every gap isn't a call to action. Sometimes it's just something you haven't gotten around to.) The Spectrum test prep series is pretty good. Or you could see if your state has old, released exams that you could use for practice. I did this for a while when my kids were younger. Nothing to stress about, but a good reminder that I did need to remember to teach them about the planets and what amphibians were. (I'm happy to say that we did in fact cover this at some point in the last five years.)

[Meriwether]

If your kids have studied things that the test writers would not expect, tests can be tricky.

 

Until I reached "terminal" tests, like the ACT or GRE, I would usually have to pause before I answered a test question and think "what am I expected to answer here?" On the vocab test your daughter may have simply chosen a more creative answer, the one that would have created an unexpected word-play, rather than the one that was technically correct.

 

Do you do textbook tests for the curriculum you use? This may help them understand how to give the answer that the question is looking for.

 

 

In answer to the bolded, they take Shurley English, Saxon Math, and Latin for Children tests, but we don't put a lot of time or energy into them. They are expected to get everything right. If they don't, they relearn until they know the material. In other words, I don't record scores. The kids usually do 90% or better, but it isn't a huge big deal is they do poorly on a section. They just have to study it again. There experience with actual tests that matter is miniscule. I have been moving, slooowly, toward more output based methods.

 

Dd9 does look up her Shurley definitions on notecards. We discuss her Latin words and words that she comes across in reading. She started Robinson Crusoe on Tuesday. She didn't understand vicissitudes, so she brought the book to me. We talked about what was happening in the paragraph. We looked up the word in a dictionary. We talked about the meaning. We revisited the paragraph. We talked about other situations in which vicissitudes may be used. She may or may not remember the exact definition the next time she sees it (which may be awhile), but she should have a general idea what it means. If I can work it into our history discussions a couple of times in the next few months, she'll remember it forever. I was perfectly happy with our combination of formal study and informal study until now.

[Ellie]

Girl friend, you are way too bothered by a test score. It's only a test score. I wouldn't worry about it for a nanosecond. Call it an interesting experience and move on.

[WTMCassandra]

I concur with the others that (1) the test scores are fine, (2) they aren't used to taking tests, and (3) you have not failed! I agree that it would be great if you could obtain more detailed results--I suspect they will clear things up. There was perhaps some quirk or your daughter was thinking of answers more "complicated" than the tests. I don't think you are overestimating your ability. I don't think you need to be destabilized by this at all. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job.

[SarahW]

I was perfectly happy with our combination of formal study and informal study until now.

 

I would be perfectly happy too. It sounds great.

 

Eventually, kids who are used to that method will have to learn to "switch" when they sit for a standard test. I wouldn't particularly worry about that until 5th-6th grade, as long as you are confident that they are progressing along adequately now.

 

There are some test prep books for younger grades. If they do another test you can sit down with them and teach them the "tricks." Until then, no worries.

[Geo]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't think so. Those tests basically compare your children's performance to the results from the original test group. I've had my kids get

100% correct on a subtest and receive only a 95 percentile for it...meaning that they were in the top 5%, not 100% correct, kwim? It probably means that the original test group did (generally) very well on the test. So much of those tests are simply comparative, not entirely content based. I hate those tests...and my kids always do well on them. I don't put alot of stock in them.

 

 

ETA: http://www.standardizedtesting.net/

[Geo]

I would completely NOT be upset. Sometimes kids that know more than what is expected read more into the questions and see multiple options as the answer. Sometimes the issue is that the vocabulary connects with PC ps education and may not be relevant to what your child has been exposed to, etc.

.

 

 

Yes, and this!

[Meriwether]

Those are good scores. And it's probably much more about her lack of practice with standardized tests than anything else. Sometimes when kids actually know more - in this case, have a better grasp of the nuances of meaning in the words - then the overly simplistic questions can be much more difficult. And remember that it's a percentile, not a percent correct. She may have missed only one or two questions. In fact, if the questions were really easy mostly, then that might have worked against her because many kids could have gotten them all correct, which brings down her percentile score.

 

 

Good is relative. :001_smile: For one of my nephews, a 40 would be good. We'd be very proud of him. For my son, a 70 is good. For this child, Dd9, a 70 is not good. I promise I'm not a nut. I just believe that of whom much is given, much is expected. I would not expect her to be the best athlete on a team. She plays sports for fun and exercise. She isn't a bad athlete, but she will never be the best. I'm great with that. She stinks at art and drawing. Really stinks. I'm okay with that, too. She is capable of doing really well academically. I thought I was doing well with her in shool. Now, I have doubts. She is smarter than I am. She knows more that I did at her age. I never scored that low on a standardized test. So, I am doing something wrong.

 

ETA: I don't mean to sound argumentative. I appreciate your (and everyone else's) reassurances. I would say the same things to someone else in the same situation. I'd like to be able to say, "It was the test. She is really doing fine." and "Seventieth percentile is good. She is fine." But what if it was me or her or us? Eventually, I'll be able to think about it without feeling sick to my stomach. Then I'll take all the reassurances to heart. But first, I will look at my homeschool with a very critical eye to see what needs to change. I may just need to do more test prep next time. I may need to overhaul our expectations. I don't know. I do appreciate your response, though.

[Arcadia]

.She might have done better with some test prep (something besides a 15 minute fill-in-the-bubble practice), but for something like vocabulary, she should know the words however they were presented, right?

 

 

Test taking skills is very different from vocabulary. It is choosing the answer the test script wants. For Language Arts, there can be two very close answers and the child has to choose the "best" answer based on context.

I had my older take the state sample standardized test last year before he sat for the actual tests. I can see where he is likely to choose the next best answer.

[TracyP]

I have been dealing with this myself. My dd9 scored very well on her test this year, like she always has.

 

My ds7 is ahead of her (as in, ahead of where she was at 7) in every area except writing. He did okay, no he did better than okay, but not as well as dd did at that age. That really surprised me. More importantly, it wasn't an accurate picture of how well I see him doing. I have been thinking about this and trying to figure out what it means.

 

First off, really it means very little. In both our cases, these kids still had excellent scores. YEAH!!!

 

I have always heard that some kids don't test well. I think I am seeing that in action. I watched my ds take his test and saw the errors he was making. A lot of times it seems important to know what the *tester* wants to know even when there is more than one answer that makes sense. My son just looks at things differently and when I asked him why he answered a certain way, I could see what he meant.

 

Also he made stupid error after stupid error (for him). For example, he was asking me for additions where the addends were in the trillions the other day because he thought it was fun. On his test he answered 9811 to what is 783 + 208. I just have to assume that this is what people mean when they say that their kids don't test well. He had many, many errors like this.

 

This bothered me at first, too. I am starting to get over it. As we move on, and get back to our day to day I am reminded of how much they are learning. Teaching to the test is absolutely what I did not want when I started homeschooling. It is hard not to get caught up in it, but I wouldn't want to radically change my hs, that is going wonderfully, just to gain a couple percentage points on a test.

[CookieMonster]

I have always felt confident that I see the kids' academics clearly. I see areas that they do well in. I see areas where they struggle.

...

This has upset me a lot. Not the test score itself. Ds8's vocab score was only slightly better, and I am happy for him. I am upset because I completely misjudged how well she would do on a vocabulary test. I overestimated her ability. The other tests were not given. What if I have overestimated her abilities across the board? I thought I knew how she was doing. Now I am doubting virtually everything. Her abilities, my abilities, my methods. She might have done better with some test prep (something besides a 15 minute fill-in-the-bubble practice), but for something like vocabulary, she should know the words however they were presented, right? I'm not sure what to think. I only know that I feel sick, like I have failed her. Should I test them this spring to see how they are doing now? We had really just started our school year when they took the test last fall.

 

I don't know what my point is really, but I am doubting my judgment right now, and I'm not sure what to do about it.

 

 

It is entirely possible that you have not overestimated your daughter's abilities. You said you spent quite a few weeks before the test being very light with academics. This alone could account for the lower-than-expected score(s). I, myself, am a perfect example of this. One year, quite by accident, I had an easy-peasy academic load. The test at the end of the school year showed lower-than-expected results. Enter next school year. The academic load was challenging. Just two months into the year I retook the test and scored miles above my first scores. MILES. I had not learned any great new concepts or ideas that made a difference on the test. I had not done any test prep. I had simply been more engaged academically for the period before the second testing. The work I was doing was on-level and there was more of it in every subject. I think this really did make the difference.

 

Just another thought on the subject...

[Ellie]

Those are good scores. And it's probably much more about her lack of practice with standardized tests than anything else. Sometimes when kids actually know more - in this case, have a better grasp of the nuances of meaning in the words - then the overly simplistic questions can be much more difficult. And remember that it's a percentile, not a percent correct. She may have missed only one or two questions. In fact, if the questions were really easy mostly, then that might have worked against her because many kids could have gotten them all correct, which brings down her percentile score.

 

 

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: especially with the bolded part.

[WTMCassandra]

Good is relative. :001_smile: For one of my nephews, a 40 would be good. We'd be very proud of him. For my son, a 70 is good. For this child, Dd9, a 70 is not good. I promise I'm not a nut. I just believe that of whom much is given, much is expected. I would not expect her to be the best athlete on a team. She plays sports for fun and exercise. She isn't a bad athlete, but she will never be the best. I'm great with that. She stinks at art and drawing. Really stinks. I'm okay with that, too. She is capable of doing really well academically. I thought I was doing well with her in shool. Now, I have doubts. She is smarter than I am. She knows more that I did at her age. I never scored that low on a standardized test. So, I am doing something wrong.

 

I don't think you are a nut. Not at all. BUT, I do think there is a huge logical leap in the last two sentences. There are a ton of variables between DD is smarter --> DD knows more --> I never scored that low --> I am doing something wrong. There is a HUGE leap in your last sentence alone--the logic Does. Not. Follow.

 

If I were this concerned, I would be hotfooting it down to the school to ask to see more detailed results and/or the test itself, if they will let you. I would also be casually asking my DD (with no stress in my voice), "So, what did you think about the vocabulary section? Did you find it easy or hard?"

 

You simply need More. Information. before you can even begin to think you might be doing something wrong.

 

Also, if I were in your shoes and the score discrepancy with what I see daily in the learning environment is not cleared up by looking at the test more closely, then I would consider retesting. There are standardized tests you can give at home. This would let you see firsthand how she reacts to standardized testing items.

 

Then, and only then, would I consider making changes to my homeschool.

 

ETA: I don't mean to sound argumentative. I appreciate your (and everyone else's) reassurances. I would say the same things to someone else in the same situation. I'd like to be able to say, "It was the test. She is really doing fine." and "Seventieth percentile is good. She is fine." But what if it was me or her or us? Eventually, I'll be able to think about it without feeling sick to my stomach. Then I'll take all the reassurances to heart. But first, I will look at my homeschool with a very critical eye to see what needs to change. I may just need to do more test prep next time. I may need to overhaul our expectations. I don't know. I do appreciate your response, though.

 

More information will help you determine if it was "me or her or us." Seriously. I think the only mistake you can make here is to make knee-jerk major changes to your homeschool in a moment of panic. Seriously.

[Farrar]

But the thing you're probably "doing wrong" is not teaching to the test and not drilling her with test taking strategies. Also, kids who are really gifted at something can sometimes do worse on these types of tests. Outside observers have repeatedly complimented her vocabulary and she reads an incredible amount! She can do it in a real world setting. The test didn't reflect that... because its a rough measurement tool.

 

 

 

Good is relative. :001_smile: For one of my nephews, a 40 would be good. We'd be very proud of him. For my son, a 70 is good. For this child, Dd9, a 70 is not good. I promise I'm not a nut. I just believe that of whom much is given, much is expected. I would not expect her to be the best athlete on a team. She plays sports for fun and exercise. She isn't a bad athlete, but she will never be the best. I'm great with that. She stinks at art and drawing. Really stinks. I'm okay with that, too. She is capable of doing really well academically. I thought I was doing well with her in shool. Now, I have doubts. She is smarter than I am. She knows more that I did at her age. I never scored that low on a standardized test. So, I am doing something wrong.

 

ETA: I don't mean to sound argumentative. I appreciate your (and everyone else's) reassurances. I would say the same things to someone else in the same situation. I'd like to be able to say, "It was the test. She is really doing fine." and "Seventieth percentile is good. She is fine." But what if it was me or her or us? Eventually, I'll be able to think about it without feeling sick to my stomach. Then I'll take all the reassurances to heart. But first, I will look at my homeschool with a very critical eye to see what needs to change. I may just need to do more test prep next time. I may need to overhaul our expectations. I don't know. I do appreciate your response, though.

 

[8filltheheart]

Something else to consider--the order in which the subtests were given. If they followed the ITBS suggested schedule, the vocab would have been first. Perhaps the format threw her. Perhaps the chair was uncomfortable or squeaked. It could be any number of things! That's the problem with standardized tests (I type this as my last two are taking a practice ACT), they are a snapshot of ONE day. I've seen children blow a section because the birds in teh bird feeder were too loud. I've seen kids blow the maps and diagrams secion because they were weren't seated facing north and it messed them all up (I seat my first-timers facing north for just that reason). I always take the day-to-day assessments as more valid than a one-off thing.

:iagree: There are so many variables. It sounds like she took it at the school......that alone would have my younger kids freaked out and unable to focus. (new environment, strange adults, not used to how things are done, lots of kids probably starring at them b/c they "don't belong there.) I know my kids wouldn't be able to do their "normal" level of performance in a ps setting. And while it seems to be dismissed as not a real possibility, overthinking and knowing more than what the "simple question is asking" can throw kids. It is not an issue of what they know, but simple test-taking strategies. Definitely not something to worry about with young kids.

[freesia]

I have a few thoughts:

 

First, it's a shame they didn't give the other tests to your children. Sometimes having a lot of high scores helps balance a low one.

 

Second, it is possible she didn't check over her vocab test and skipped one by accident. My ds, who has studied maps since he was a little guy, was in t he second percentile on his first standardized test! He had skipped a problem early on and gotten "off grid." I used this as an object lesson and I'm sure he will check his test from now on. Some children consider "finishing fast" as being a good thing.

 

However, Debra Bell says in her Ultimate Book of Homeschooling book, and I agree, that it often isn't until children are in fifth grade that they really show what they can do on a test. Before that, there are all kinds of maturity issues involved (and, for your child, do not underestimate the new venue). This was my experience with my first and I am confident that that will happen for my second, as well.

 

If this is really bothering you as much as it seems, and you have some extra money, I would give a different test to my daughter, at home. I would do this before I changed curriculum or added more vocab for a child who is already recognizably strong in this area.

 

But, a 70% for a nine year old, first time standardized test taker, is not a terrible score. She is very, very young.

[Geo]

Good is relative. :001_smile: For one of my nephews, a 40 would be good. We'd be very proud of him. For my son, a 70 is good. For this child, Dd9, a 70 is not good. I promise I'm not a nut. I just believe that of whom much is given, much is expected. I would not expect her to be the best athlete on a team. She plays sports for fun and exercise. She isn't a bad athlete, but she will never be the best. I'm great with that. She stinks at art and drawing. Really stinks. I'm okay with that, too. She is capable of doing really well academically. I thought I was doing well with her in shool. Now, I have doubts. She is smarter than I am. She knows more that I did at her age. I never scored that low on a standardized test. So, I am doing something wrong.

 

ETA: I don't mean to sound argumentative. I appreciate your (and everyone else's) reassurances. I would say the same things to someone else in the same situation. I'd like to be able to say, "It was the test. She is really doing fine." and "Seventieth percentile is good. She is fine." But what if it was me or her or us? Eventually, I'll be able to think about it without feeling sick to my stomach. Then I'll take all the reassurances to heart. But first, I will look at my homeschool with a very critical eye to see what needs to change. I may just need to do more test prep next time. I may need to overhaul our expectations. I don't know. I do appreciate your response, though.

 

Honestly, if good is relative, why isn't a 99+ percentile relative? Why isn't the whole dang test relative (in the grand scheme of things), for that matter? Must she always prove her potential so that you can feel good about your homeschool? Is this really about her, or you? It's overblown in my estimation (as well as others'). Your hyper self-questioning reaction is one of the real pitfalls of standardized testing. It's a pathetic, narrow, shallow representation (think of the science test) of human learning patterns. :banghead: I admit, it may have some value in the ps arena....some. They don't know their students the way you know yours.

Please, have a little faith in her (to overcome a poor test result) AND yourself. Like a pp said, "It's ONE day."

 

Ok, ready to burn in heck now...

[Farrar]

Ok, ready to burn in heck now...

 

 

You said it a bit more bluntly, than me, but yeah. ;)

 

This is reminding me of a student I had many years ago. She was very smart, very gifted. And she had ended up at the school of quirky weird kids where I taught because she was also filled with anxiety about all kinds of things. Some of this, I'm sure, was inherent to her make up. However, every time we tried to honor the awesome things she did, her parents wouldn't really listen to us. They wanted to critique the school, the teachers, etc. instead. I felt bad... I mean, she probably did have some needs we weren't meeting. But then came 8th grade "graduation" - it was a Quaker meeting where people spoke to the kids out of the silence. Parents, friends and teachers often said powerful, tearful things at these graduations. How much they loved their kids, how proud they were, how hard middle school had been but they had made it through. And her parents stood up and said, "We expect great things from you." It just really crystallized for me how their expectations weren't really honoring her gifts. Instead, they were using them as an excuse to place weight on her, weight that was difficult for her to bear.

 

This is not to say that the OP is necessarily doing this - you haven't said anything about transferring the disappointment you're feeling to your dd. I find myself feeling these expectations of my kids all the time and wanting to challenge them and wanting them to be their best selves and show off all their gifts. But sometimes, when I'm in that mode, I have to take myself back to that moment and say to myself, are my expectations raising the bar for my children or putting a weight on them? It's not always clear.

[Meriwether]

Honestly, if good is relative, why isn't a 99+ percentile relative? Why isn't the whole dang test relative (in the grand scheme of things), for that matter? Must she always prove her potential so that you can feel good about your homeschool? Well, no. And yes. She doesn't have to prove anything to me. She is what she is. Not perfect by any means but a special child. I happen to think she hung the moon. Even after her test score. ;) I don't think she failed me, but I do wonder if I've failed her. It isn't a matter of feeling good about my homeschool. A good friend of mine feels good about her homeschool knowing that the kids aren't learning as much as they might in a different setting. I am questioning some of the decisions I've made. I was questioning them before I got the test score. The test score gave my thoughts focus. I've been slow to require a lot of output from the kids. I don't have hard deadlines or tests that matter. I still don't think those are important for young kids, but I do think they are important for Dd now. Is this really about her, or you? Me. I did get sidetracked by the good score comment. But what threw me for a loop in all this is that I expected Dd to do better on the test than she did. It would be like taking your kid to a track meet. You've seen the kid run. You've even timed the kid. You expect the kid to do really well. He does okay at the track meet. He doesn't run as well as you thought he would, though. The kid is fast. He has potential. You have to ask yourself if he could have medalled (like you thought he would) if you had trained a bit differently. It's overblown in my estimation (as well as others'). Overblown, yes. If I had a handle on my reaction, I wouldn't have felt the need to post. It did help to read everyone's responses. The kids had a piano lesson and ate lunch. It is time to get back to school, but my body seems to have lost the tension from the past few days and I'm feeling sleepy. I'll make it through yet another Nate the Great book, but I'll have to work at it. Your hyper self-questioning reaction is one of the real pitfalls of standardized testing. It's a pathetic, narrow, shallow representation (think of the science test) of human learning patterns. :banghead: I admit, it may have some value in the ps arena....some. They don't know their students the way you know yours.

Please, have a little faith in her (to overcome a poor test result) AND yourself. Like a pp said, "It's ONE day."

 

Ok, ready to burn in heck now...

 

 

I am constantly questioning my homeschool. The test put me in overdrive. :laugh:

[Meriwether]

.

[Meriwether]

Triple post.

[happypamama]

I think those test results are perfectly fine, and I wouldn't worry about them at all. There are so many variables that could affect standardized test results, as PPs have said (shoot, a kid's reading comprehension scores can be affected by whether they thought the paragraphs were on interesting topics or not!), and 70 percentile is very good. The tests only correlate loosely to what you've taught them/what they've studied. Unless they're seriously below grade level in multiple areas, I really doubt you'll have any issues from an oversight standpoint (not sure where you are -- here in PA, the local school district has to see test results every few years). You're doing just fine -- they scored well above the average!

 

These are the two ways in which I feel that testing may be useful. (And since we do the 1970 CAT, we only test math and reading/verbal -- so the tests don't at all reflect anything they've learned in history, any rabbit trails they've taken in science, DD's love of Latin, or their ongoing obsession with matching classical music works to their favorite TV/movie characters.) One, my DD took the test, as required here, in 3rd and 5th grade, which for the 1970 CAT is the same level of test both years, and I was glad to see that her number of correct scores in all areas went up. That was reassuring, although things like a bad day could have affected them negatively just as well. And two, she did a lot better in one area than I expected, so I'm crossing it off of my "let's work on this specifically" list for next year, but she didn't do as well as I thought she might in another area, so I do want to target that a bit next year. But beyond that, it's all highly dependent on what is actually on the test, not what is in your student's brain.

[AimeeM]

Hmm.

My daughter is a very bright girl.

 

And she BOMBS standardized tests.

 

Tests are boring, they take too long, too many questions, she has to sit still, she'd rather be doing... anything.

Lol.

Don't worry so much about it.

[8filltheheart]

It would be like taking your kid to a track meet. You've seen the kid run. You've even timed the kid. You expect the kid to do really well. He does okay at the track meet. He doesn't run as well as you thought he would, though. The kid is fast. He has potential. You have to ask yourself if he could have medalled (like you thought he would) if you had trained a bit differently.

 

Are your kids used to being in a public school setting? B/c if you took a child that had no experience running on a track and using lanes, following rules about lane changes, false starts, etc to a track meet, it would be ridiculous to expect them to show up at a meet and perform the equivalent of what they would in surroundings and conditions where they normally run b/c they would be processing all those new things. Changing training for a track meet is one thing......b/c track meets are where an individual is going to compete. So training them for track rules makes sense.

 

Altering a curriculum due to a single standardized test for a 9 yr old does not make sense unless it demonstrates a lack of learning which you have stated quite clearly does not appear to be the case.

 

ETA: Also, the fact that you had just moved and their lives were disrupted could also impact their ability to focus. Moving is stressful, even for little children.

[Meriwether]

 

You said it a bit more bluntly, than me, but yeah. ;)

 

This is reminding me of a student I had many years ago. She was very smart, very gifted. And she had ended up at the school of quirky weird kids where I taught because she was also filled with anxiety about all kinds of things. Some of this, I'm sure, was inherent to her make up. However, every time we tried to honor the awesome things she did, her parents wouldn't really listen to us. They wanted to critique the school, the teachers, etc. instead. I felt bad... I mean, she probably did have some needs we weren't meeting. But then came 8th grade "graduation" - it was a Quaker meeting where people spoke to the kids out of the silence. Parents, friends and teachers often said powerful, tearful things at these graduations. How much they loved their kids, how proud they were, how hard middle school had been but they had made it through. And her parents stood up and said, "We expect great things from you." It just really crystallized for me how their expectations weren't really honoring her gifts. Instead, they were using them as an excuse to place weight on her, weight that was difficult for her to bear.

 

This is not to say that the OP is necessarily doing this - you haven't said anything about transferring the disappointment you're feeling to your dd. I find myself feeling these expectations of my kids all the time and wanting to challenge them and wanting them to be their best selves and show off all their gifts. But sometimes, when I'm in that mode, I have to take myself back to that moment and say to myself, are my expectations raising the bar for my children or putting a weight on them? It's not always clear.

 

I've never applied for any parenting awards, and I don't plan to start now. Dd knows that I have high expectations for her. But if she was asked what I thought about her, she would not say, "I'm smart and Mom wants me to do well in school." We focus on doing well while she is doing school. I view her as a whole person and she knows that. She would say, "I've been a blessing to Mom since the day I was born." That is what she hears from me in word and deed.

[Hunter]

My youngest pulled off some amazingly high and some amazingly low test scores over the years. And different years and different tests contradicted other years and other tests.

 

I never trust testing. EVER. Even when a test fully backs up what I am witnessing, I fear it will will close me off to hints I should be watching for.

 

The only thing that I think testing can accomplish is to prove something a teacher is not being believed about. And that can be difficult and nerve racking to accomplish unless the teacher is sly as a fox. A little hint-- precocious children often produce higher scores when given a test ABOVE their age level, instead of an "easier" test.

[shinyhappypeople]

Sometimes even really, really smart kids make mistakes. Only God is perfect.

[Arcadia]

(btw, am I the only one having problems? My enter key won't work on this site and I can't change earlier colors??? Left over problems from yesterday??)

 

It is probably because of Internet Explorer 10. The IE9, Firefox, Chrome and Safari works okay.

[shinyhappypeople]

One of my daughters in a Capital-P perfectionist, so my DH tells her time and time again about the season (I think it was '69) that Bobby Bonds led the league in both runs scored AND strike-outs. If you don't mind a baseball analogy, here's one: it's like you're berating yourself for poor coaching because she only hit a double, but you know she's capable of home runs.

[8filltheheart]

 

It is probably because of Internet Explorer 10. The IE9, Firefox, Chrome and Safari works okay.

 

 

Thank you. That was the problem!

[TracyP]

Meriwether, I was wondering if you tested your dd with 5th graders. Either way your dd's scores were very good, but iirc you consider her a 5th grader. If she tested 70% vocab/ 92% math with kids that are 1-2 years older than her, then her scores were exceptional. Now this may be a reason to reconsider if you want her in the top 3rd of a higher grade or top 5% of the lower grade. I am having a hard time wording this because I really don't think you should put too much stock in this test even if she did test with the 4th graders. But I did want to throw it out there.

[Joker]

My oldest psyched herself out the first few times she took the language arts portions of a standardized test because she thought the questions couldn't really be that easy. She overthought it and ended up making silly mistakes. She does fine now. It just took some time and practice.

[Meriwether]

Meriwether, I was wondering if you tested your dd with 5th graders. Either way your dd's scores were very good, but iirc you consider her a 5th grader. If she tested 70% vocab/ 92% math with kids that are 1-2 years older than her, then her scores were exceptional. Now this may be a reason to reconsider if you want her in the top 3rd of a higher grade or top 5% of the lower grade. I am having a hard time wording this because I really don't think you should put too much stock in this test even if she did test with the 4th graders. But I did want to throw it out there.

 

 

She took the 4th grade test since she took it through the school and she is officially registered as a 4th grader. I think I've decided to look for a practice test she can take. I've tried to find them online before and can't seem to find what I'm looking for, but I will try again. Before they test next year, I want the kids to do some worksheets I have around from a retired grade school teacher. They are similar to the standardized test questions that I remember. I'm still thinking about changes that I want to make in general (not just vocabulary) as she moves more solidly into logic stage.

[Meriwether]

 

Are your kids used to being in a public school setting? B/c if you took a child that had no experience running on a track and using lanes, following rules about lane changes, false starts, etc to a track meet, it would be ridiculous to expect them to show up at a meet and perform the equivalent of what they would in surroundings and conditions where they normally run b/c they would be processing all those new things. Changing training for a track meet is one thing......b/c track meets are where an individual is going to compete. So training them for track rules makes sense. I thought about this when I typed out the analogy. If I took the kid to a track meet, I'd make sure they knew what to do. I never liked the idea of teaching to the test, and I still won't do that. I do think I need to teach them how to take a test as a skill. I'll also give them worksheets to do before the next test. Having people tell me I'm crazy all day, helps me laugh at myself. I will still take this too seriously, but I'm not nearly as stressed as I was this morning.

 

Altering a curriculum due to a single standardized test for a 9 yr old does not make sense unless it demonstrates a lack of learning which you have stated quite clearly does not appear to be the case.

 

ETA: Also, the fact that you had just moved and their lives were disrupted could also impact their ability to focus. Moving is stressful, even for little children.

 

[ElizabethB]

I have done the ITBS before, this year we did the DORA and ALEX test at let's go learn. It was quicker and, I think, a better test for people who span various grade levels. It is a computer adaptive test, so it goes up and down to the grade level of skills you are actually working at. It should give you a quick answer and a better score, grade levels are more helpful than percentiles for a child working out of grade level. You can see the scores as soon as they finish.

 

The math portion is a bit longer at the upper grade levels, but the LA portion is fairly quick even at the upper levels. You can watch them take the test and see what kinds of things throw them off and what they need to work on. My son's math test took about an hour. My daughter has worked for about 2 hours on math and is around 3/5 done. Her LA took less than an hour, but she is a quick reader. A slower reader might take a bit over an hour.

 

http://www.letsgolearn.com/

 

If you do not watch they take the tests or see what kind of questions they miss, it is hard to tell what the problem is. The first year my daughter took the ITBS, she scored higher on the harder but more interesting passages than the easy but boring questions because she did not realize she was supposed to pay attention to boring details in a boring story. Also, early on, she missed several questions that were very school specific, at a young age she did not know that kind of context. She could get that type of question now that she is older.

[Critterfixer]

I just checked in on this thread to find out how much chocolate is needed to interpret standardized test scores. Clearly I need to purchase a good solid 16 ounces.

[ktgrok]

So your daughter, in a strange place, and having never taken a standardized test before, and with no real test prep, scored better than 70% of the kids that are there every day, totally comfortable, and have probably spent most of the school year practicing for this test. And you are worried about the education you are giving her?

[TranquilMind]

 

I am constantly questioning my homeschool. The test put me in overdrive. :laugh:

 

They are only 9 and 8. Another poster upthread mentioned that she was lighter on academics one year, but the next, kicked into high drive and a mere 2 months later, her kids had made leaps. She assumed the two are necessarily correlated, but I postulate that they could be entirely unrelated.

 

Kids develop in leaps and bounds when they are ready. Her kids could have simply kicked into a new phase of development.

 

I've told this story, but my son literally wrote papers consisting of things like, "I like candy. Candy is good. Candy is tasty and colorful." at maybe 11...and by 12, he was writing papers of several pages, utilizing his large vocabulary. Something switched on somewhere in there, and what I knew was in there began to come out.

 

It just happened when HE was ready.

 

He's now in some difficult outside high school classes (still middle school age) and is the top student in 2 of 3, and tied with a girl in another.

 

So I just want to encourage you. Just keep plodding on. If you think you need help in an area (or your kid exceeds your abilities in that area), farm that out or find a tutor or friend to help for a time. Discuss the benefits of education and how it all relates to the real world on a regular basis. It will be fine!

[SKL]

My gifted daughter got a 47%ile IIRC on the vocabulary section of the Iowa test in KG (last year). (Her %iles for math, reading, and language were all 99.) I can assure you that given her life experiences, intelligence, the books she'd read by then, and the way she spoke, her vocabulary was NOT average. Her sister, who tests average all-around, also got a 47%ile on the same vocab test. I can understand your concern, because I felt it too at first. But after all, that was just a moment in time. I don't know what words they used nor whether the test was administered properly. I choose to ignore it unless she persistently bombs the vocab section year after year.

[duckens]

Andrew Pudewa (of the Institute for Excellence in Writing) says in one of his talks that if you MUST test your child (for state requirements), then put the results in the bottom of the filing cabinet drawer UNOPENED.

 

Two decades later, you may open the envelope and laugh your head off.

[Catherine]

Let me share an anecdote about how children who are not accustomed to conventional school and testing can really be bamboozled by a standardized test. This is my dyslexic-like 11 yo who very often is mixed up about things that seem perfectly straightforward to me.

 

Last week I was giving him the CAT for his grade level. He did a similar test once before 3 years ago. He's never been in a regular school. I looked up from what I was doing and saw that he was in tears of frustration. After he settled down and I talked to him some more, he explained that he had been interpreting the directions, "Look at the map, then answer the questions that follow" to mean that he was to memorize the map, then answer the questions without looking again at the map. Good grief. I'm always discovering his unconventional ways of perceiving what seem to be simple things.

 

So OP, maybe your daughter did not understnad the directions!