What would your expectations be?

[plain jane]

Back in the fall I found a music teacher who would come to my house and teach my kids, which made my life a whole lot easier than driving them around everywhere for their lessons. :)

 

This person picked the time she would come and we pay her $90 for 1.5 hours (3 kids).

 

Here's the thing. Since we started in September, there have been 2 instances where she has been 1/2 hour late with no phone call or anything. When she arrived, one time she offered a "sorry" and mumbled about traffic, and the next time it was a health issue. It felt like more of a, "sorry I'm late, I'm in so much pain", vs. a "sorry I've inconvenienced you and your family for showing up 1/2 hour late to our lesson." Do I need to discuss this beforehand with her and let her know if she shows up another time more than 20 minutes late that I will be letting her go? It's not even so much that she is late but that she never calls.

 

Also, I would like to know how you feel about this:

 

Our lessons start at 10:00am. At the beginning she would show around 9:55 and get things going. She needs to bring in all her music and often she brings her own instrument that she brings in and sets up. Now, she has been showing up right at 10:00 or even 10:05. By the time she gets her coat off and gets to our music lesson space and unpacks her books, etc, a good 5-10 minutes has passed.

 

I'm most especially annoyed with her showing up right at 10:00 and then not getting going until she's unpacked, etc. I'm paying her $30 per half hour and I don't feel I should be paying her to unpack her things. I think she should be here, unpacked and teaching her first student when 10:00am starts so as to provide a full service for the $30.00 that I am paying her. What do you think? If a lesson starts at 10:00am would you expect the teacher to show up at the door at 10:00am or would you expect her to have her things set up and be starting to teach her first student at 10:00am?

 

 

The kids have another class they have to be at after their music lesson and we need to leave by 11:45am. On days when she is 5-10 minutes late or she doesn't get going fast enough she does stay the extra while and give each child their half hour but then the entire lesson runs late, which in turn makes us late for their next classes (again, money lost there because of lost time in that class).

 

I'm not happy with the situation but I'll be honest and say something about this woman rubs me the wrong way and I am probably just letting everything bother me. I like that she comes to the house (and a teacher who does is a rarity in these parts) but I feel like she is taking advantage of things a bit. Looking for a bit of insight here.

[Catwoman]

I think you need to have a serious discussion with her, and if you're not satisfied with her response to your concerns, she has to go.

 

I would give her the opportunity to change her ways before giving her the boot, but if that doesn't happen (or you get a strong inclination from your conversation that she won't change,) I think you have to let her go. People can only take advantage of you if you allow it, and she needs to know that you're done with dealing with her nonsense.

[Mergath]

I agree that she should start the lesson at ten, not arrive at ten. As far as tuning, etc. goes, that's been part of the lesson with every instrument I've ever studied.

 

I would sit down and talk to her about being late. If she can't make it on time, and it's making you and your family late for other appointments, perhaps there'd be a better day/time during the week for the lessons.

[Joker]

As far as her showing up at or before 10 am, I would expect her to be there at 10 since she's coming to your home. I would be uncomfortable showing up too early in case you had other plans or were busy with school. If you want her to show up earlier to start at 10am then I think you need to tell her.

 

I would be upset with her lateness but if she showed up with an IV it sounds like she was really sick so I would have probably let it go that time.

[happypamama]

I can't speak to the validity of time spent teaching the kids to tune their instruments (IDK; it might be an important part of the lesson), but I would think that each child should get their full 30 minute lesson, starting at 10:00. If she isn't ready to start teaching them at 10:00, I think she should give you a discount or something.

 

I think if you're generally happy with her teaching and their progress, you should have a chat with her about what you expect to be paying for, and if things don't improve, you should try to find a new teacher.

[plain jane]

As far as her showing up at or before 10 am, I would expect her to be there at 10 since she's coming to your home. I would be uncomfortable showing up too early in case you had other plans or were busy with school. If you want her to show up earlier to start at 10am then I think you need to tell her.

 

I would be upset with her lateness but if she showed up with an IV it sounds like she was really sick so I would have probably let it go that time.

 

 

I do sympathize that she was really sick. I do. :) But, no the flip side, I am paying her for her services. $90 each class. For her to show up 1/2 hour late, make my kids late for their next class, and really not give them much of a quality lesson because she was in so much pain, annoys me. I feel if she was that sick she should have cancelled the lesson altogether. I know she wanted/needs the money but it's not petty change to me. $360 a month adds up over a year.

 

Plus, she knew she was sick for several days before. It didn't sneak up on her while she was on her way out the door. Wouldn't a person plan accordingly for that and start getting to leave earlier? Or at least give others the courtesy of a phone call saying they will be late?

[Elinor Everywhere]

I fired my son's music teacher for very similar reasons. He would often be late, but not stay late to make up for it. He would never bring a pencil and for a while we wasted time each week while my ds scrambled for one, but then we just started making sure my son had a pencil for the teacher to use. He would also spend lesson time looking up his website and showing my ds some things to do for homework - but this could easily take 1/3 of the lesson time. I felt like I was paying for my son to watch his teacher on the computer!

 

For me it worked better to just drive to our new teacher's house. Inconvenient, but I felt I was getting my money's worth.

[Joanne]

I am not sure I agree that it was Nhighly unprofessional" for the tuning to be the percentage of time it was. Guiding tuning with her students could very well be a valid teaching sytle.

 

Regarding the set up vs. Teaching, I belive that 10 means start teaching @ 10; I agree with you there.

 

The lateness? I would be upset, too, but I think you need to have a discussion before a threat of leaving the arrabgement.

[Catwoman]

Jane, every single point you have made is completely valid. You're annoyed with the woman and it sounds like you're hoping we'll tell you to fire her and be done with her.

 

So if that's what you think you should do, just do it. You don't need approval from any of us.

 

I know that I only suggested that you speak with her first and see how she responds, because I thought you were on the fence about whether or not to keep using her, and also because it can be a nuisance to find a new teacher, but if you feel like you're wasting money because she's not doing her job, you're certainly not obligated to give her another chance. $360 a month is not small change -- and it sounds like you're not getting what you paid for.

 

One thing I do see, though, is that when you addressed the instrument tuning issue, she did make a change -- maybe not exactly what you wanted, but it appears that she tried -- so perhaps she will be more willing to make additional changes once you tell her about the specific problems you're having with her. But... the fact that you're still annoyed because you, "found it highly unprofessional that it got to that point in the first place," leads me to believe that this isn't just a "teaching thing," but that it may be more that you have taken a personal dislike to the woman. (And it's fine if you have -- nobody likes everybody else!) If that's the case, is there really any changes she can make that will ever make you happy with her?

[J-rap]

If you are otherwise pleased with her, I'd try and work it out. I don't know of any music teacher to come to a home personally, so I guess I'd give her a little leeway because that would be such a convenience. However, I'd want to make sure we got our full hour and a half. So if she came a half hour late, I'd still expect her to put in a full hour and half. I realize that doesn't work well with your schedule because you have another thing going on that same morning.

 

Can you explain to her that you're pleased with her teaching (if you are), but that it's difficult to vary that schedule since you have other things going on that morning. She would either need to be ready to go at 10:00 on the dot, or else you could change it to another day/time when you are more flexible afterwards, so that if she comes a little late you'd still have time for her to put in the full hour and a half.

 

We have had pretty flexible schedules with our various teachers (working both ways), but they always understood that once they got down to it, they needed to put in the full time.

[plain jane]

Jane, every single point you have made is completely valid. You're annoyed with the woman and it sounds like you're hoping we'll tell you to fire her and be done with her.

 

So if that's what you think you should do, just do it. You don't need approval from any of us.

 

I know that I only suggested that you speak with her first and see how she responds, because I thought you were on the fence about whether or not to keep using her, and also because it can be a nuisance to find a new teacher, but if you feel like you're wasting money because she's not doing her job, you're certainly not obligated to give her another chance. $360 a month is not small change -- and it sounds like you're not getting what you paid for.

 

The biggest problem I see is that you've let her get away with more and more, rather than addressing each issue with her as they have come up, and being firm about your expectations.

 

 

 

No, honestly, I'm not. It comes across that way, doesn't it? LOL Sorry, that wasn't my intention. She does bother me but the kids like her and are making progress. She does come late, but she stays late... but that wasn't our arrangement. At first it was now and then (and I didn't want to complain because I know traffic or weather comes into play) but now it has become a consistent thing.

 

I honestly didn't know if I should expect her to be at my door at 10:00am or ready to go at 10:00.

 

I know if I bring my kids to a class that starts at 10:00 and we show at 10:00 (and have to take coats off or get supplies) that they lose out on that time. That teacher doesn't stay late for them because I couldn't get them there a few minutes early. I don't know how (or if) the dynamics change when it is the teacher who comes to the student.

 

I was prepared to be out of line as well. :)

[plain jane]

I am not sure I agree that it was Nhighly unprofessional" for the tuning to be the percentage of time it was. Guiding tuning with her students could very well be a valid teaching sytle.

 

Regarding the set up vs. Teaching, I belive that 10 means start teaching @ 10; I agree with you there.

 

The lateness? I would be upset, too, but I think you need to have a discussion before a threat of leaving the arrabgement.

 

 

 

You are right. It's not highly unprofessional. It's hard to describe how she goes about it. It's her manner that I found unprofessional. It really did appear that she killing time. It would take forever to get one string tuned and she would just say no, that's not correct. Nope, wrong still. etc. I can't describe her demeanor but that was more what I found unprofessional than the actual tuning. But you are right- I shouldn't make that judgement and will go back and correct. I'll admit- I've been emailing and texting her since yesterday and have yet to hear back so I'm a bit more annoyed with her than usual.

[Sara in AZ]

I think the teacher has acted unprofessionally regarding the scheduling, and that in itself would be good grounds to find a new teacher. I would like to point out, though, that if you were taking lessons at studio or another teacher's home you would still have unpacking/ tuning time/greeting time. That's pretty much built in to any lesson I've ever experienced.

[plain jane]

I think the teacher has acted unprofessionally regarding the scheduling, and that in itself would be good grounds to find a new teacher. I would like to point out, though, that if you were taking lessons at studio or another teacher's home you would still have unpacking/ tuning time/greeting time. That's pretty much built in to any lesson I've ever experienced.

 

Yes I get that there would be unpacking and set up time. We have been in music lessons for years prior. The difference was, when their lessons started at 4:00pm I would get them there for 3:50pm so they could unpack and set up and be ready to go for their 4:00pm lesson. In fact, the teacher encouraged all her families to show up early so they could be ready to go right at the beginning of the lesson. If we showed up right at the start time she would consider us late.

[Joker]

 

Yes I get that there would be unpacking and set up time. We have been in music lessons for years prior. The difference was, when their lessons started at 4:00pm I would get them there for 3:50pm so they could unpack and set up and be ready to go for their 4:00pm lesson. In fact, the teacher encouraged all her families to show up early so they could be ready to go right at the beginning of the lesson. If we showed up right at the start time she would consider us late.

 

She's coming to your home though, and unless you've told her your schedule she doesn't know if it's ok to show up 10 minutes early. I show up early to everything but when it's at someone's home I am more careful about it because some don't like it.

[plain jane]

She's coming to your home though, and unless you've told her your schedule she doesn't know if it's ok to show up 10 minutes early. I show up early to everything but when it's at someone's home I am more careful about it because some don't like it.

 

 

 

I get your point. :) I feel like I am arguing with you and please believe me when I say I'm not. :)

 

Thing is, she used to come 10 minutes early and set up. Then she started coming later and later. She does know my schedule and I've told her before I need her out of my house by 11:35. LOL Ok, not quite that exact but she has seen us rushing out the door (almost ahead of her) at the end of a lesson to get to our next class. (this only happens when she runs 15 minutes or more late). I have 20 minutes after the class should end to get everyone out the door and on a normal day, that is plenty of time.

 

In this case, she knows earlier is better. She used to be here her early. :glare: Maybe I should have offered her more positive reinforcement. :tongue_smilie:

[Joker]

If you've already told her she can come early to be ready by 10 then that is what she should be doing. I would probably tell her she needs to be ready to go by 10 and if she isn't the next time, let her go.

[JennW in SoCal]

Oh Jane, I wish the parents of my students were like you! I go to people's houses to teach and 90% of the time the kids are not ready to go. They can't find a shoulder rest or can't find their music and I have to twiddle my thumbs while the kids go find stuff. Then I have to tune their instruments because nobody knows how. Then the kids are watching the clock and thinking their half hour is up at 4:30 when I didn't even get around to actually working with them at 4:15.

 

I have been known to forget a pencil now and again. It usually got left at someone's house. And I don't always get my own instrument out -- the only thing I "unpack" is a pencil and sometimes flash cards. I pull my instrument out while I'm talking to them -- it only takes a minute. I can't imagine what else she needs to set up -- you must have music stands ready to go.

 

Learning to tune is really important, and learning to do it WITHOUT the tuner!! If she is teaching them to match pitch with an A, then to tune in 5ths for the rest of the strings, that is good. But I would be focusing on that with older students, maybe middle school (don't know how old your kids are). And I wouldn't spend lots of time on EACH string. And if the fiddle is in tune when I get there -- we just jump in to working.

 

Do your kids like the teacher? Are they learning proper technique and advancing? If so, then I'd just ask her to arrive at 9:45 so the first student can start at 10:00 sharp.

[Flowing Brook]

Wow I must be getting a deal. I pay 7.00 for a half hour lesson. Often it goes to 45 minutes and when I try to give my instructor extra she refuses to take it. If it were me I would probably talk to her.

[Tita Gidge]

For an in-home lesson, I'd just assume it was understood that 10am was the "show up" time. I'd assume this as both parent and teacher.

 

I wouldn't necessarily want someone else coming over too much earlier, nor would I want to show up too early and throw off the family's ... thing.

 

The time to unpack wouldn't bother me, generally speaking, but most people aren't terribly slow; it'd bother me if it felt unnecessarily drawn out, or if the teacher seemed rushed and not prepared ahead of time (fumbling around for the music, etc.) I don't think I'd take into account instrument tuning, though. That's necessary IMO. That you do it on your own ahead of time is wonderful, but I think many teachers prefer to tune themselves - especially if it's something they're teaching the kid. If your kids have been at music for awhile, I don't think it's inappropriate to suggest to the teacher that you'd like them to take more responsibility in that task -- you might ask that she dedicate the first *minute or two* of class to checking their instruments, rather than taking the time to tune it herself. You can present it in a light that might feel less (to her) like an attack or telling her how to do her job, so that she's more receptive. Maybe?

 

I'd expect the teacher to show at the designated time (10am), but not start the timer until she had unpacked and was ready to teach. Perhaps you can invest in an inexpensive digital timer, and set it atop the piano. Before the teacher arrives, instruct your student to begin the timer once they sit down to tune (or after they tune, whichever you feel is most appropriate).

[QuirkyKapers]

I think there would be a couple things I would consider doing:

First, if it was possible, I would change the time from 10:00 to 9:30. If that wasn't an option, I would let her know that if she arrives late, you need to end at the same time since you have another committment you can't be late for. I would let her know that you won't pay her for the time she wasn't there for. I would make it clear that you can have the instruments tuned so she can just come and start at 10:00. If she doesn't like the tuning, you want her to get there before 10 to do that like she was when she first started.

[Catwoman]

Wow I must be getting a deal. I pay 7.00 for a half hour lesson. Often it goes to 45 minutes and when I try to give my instructor extra she refuses to take it. If it were me I would probably talk to her.

 

Wow -- you really are getting an incredible deal!!! :thumbup:

[QueenCat]

Wow I must be getting a deal. I pay 7.00 for a half hour lesson. Often it goes to 45 minutes and when I try to give my instructor extra she refuses to take it. If it were me I would probably talk to her.

 

The cheapest I've ever paid for piano lessons is $30 per 1/2 hour. Most of the teachers charged $45-50 for a full hour.

[I talk to the trees]

You are paying her to teach your children how to play an instrument. Learning to tune/play in tune/recognize when you are out of tune is a BIG part of being a musician. Please do not ask her not to change that part of the lesson. It IS important.

 

You are paying her to teach your children for 30 minutes each. At a music store, teacher's home, etc... that 30 minutes would include a few minutes for getting the instruments out, tuning, and packing up at the end *for each student*. What you are describing sounds more like a masterclass situation, with everyone setting up and tuning at the beginning, so taking a few minutes to set everyone up at the start doesn't seem all that unreasonable.

 

That said, you are paying for 90 minutes of lesson time. It is not at all unreasonable to ask her to have all of her equipment unloaded and ready to start playing at 10. If she arrives late, she should be prepared to finish late. If going over the scheduled end time is inconvenient for you, you need to speak up. Remind her that the lesson needs to *begin* at 10, so that you are *done* at 11:30. Otherwise, you may want to do this on a more flexible day. I always let my students (and parents) know that 30 minute lessons usually drift toward 40-45 minutes. Sometimes you just cannot finish what needs to be done in half an hour. I will not just cut a student off in the middle of working on something. If we need to go over time, we do. But this is done at my home, and I am not interrupting someone else's schedule to do so. The students know to tell me if they absolutely *must* be out at a certain time.

 

You have to ask yourself if you are satisfied with her teaching other than the time issue. If so, talk to her about making changes! If not, find someone else.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Wow I must be getting a deal. I pay 7.00 for a half hour lesson. Often it goes to 45 minutes and when I try to give my instructor extra she refuses to take it. If it were me I would probably talk to her.

 

That's awesome!

 

My dd's last violin lessons were $12 for 30 minutes, and ds's drums lessons are $20 for a "long" 30 minutes.

[Mom0012]

I think if she's only been late twice since September, you are pretty lucky. I also think the fact that she always makes sure the kids get their half hour each even though she may be a few minutes late is great. If you have to leave right at 11:45, I'd focus on that and ask her if she could start at 10:45 instead of 11:00. But if you just don't like her, that's a whole different story.

[kateincali]

i agree, if you are paying her for 1.5 hours, there needs to be 1.5 hours of work with your kids. You are paying her. She has agreed to come to your house, she should be punctual. It is only respectful. My husband gives voice lessons online. He is alway sure to be on time. If for some emergency (such as the power outage last week), he is unable to be there on time he CALLS! Its just good manners. And it should never to habitual. But i do think, you should discuss this with her. But if even after that, she is late, I think it is time to look for other options.

[jhschool]

IF...you think she is a GREAT teacher for your kids, and your kids

like her, and she likes them, and she is making good music with

them, and you think she is a good person, THEN...

 

1. Tell her you need her to come 1/2 hour earlier (say 9:30 instead of

your current time of 10). Then she can do her late thing

and she won't make you late for your next event. Some people are just late people.

If she is GREAT, then put up with her lateness, but move the class time so you have

the flexibility at the end and you are not late for your next thing.

 

2. Put up with the tuning business during class.

 

3. Tell her It's OK to come a few minutes earlier (than the new time; say the new

time is 9:30; tell her: "It's OK to come at 9:20 or even 9:15 to set up, then you can

get started right at 9:30!" With a big smile on your face. Not rude, but so that she

knows you are being friendly and not complaining.

 

IF she is not GREAT, then just tell her it's not working out for you...ther is no point being

annoyed all the time.

[violamama]

I'm sorry about not being sure she's a good fit. That's no fun, especially because she's in your home. If it doesn't seem like she might turn into a good fit, I would switch teachers sooner rather than later. It's a lot of work to get a working relationship in place for both the student and the teacher, and it can be discouraging for the kids to have turnover. Hope you find somebody else if need be.

 

Like others have said, tuning is huge and needs to be taught, but it sounds like you really don't like her method/demeanor. If she's telling them to turn the fine tuners one way or the other and helping them figure out how, that's pretty normal. I don't teach this until the kids & parents are quiet experienced. Sometimes they force my hand a bit by trying to do it themselves anyway, especially if they have an instrument that won't hold pitch well. If they often subject it to temperature changes (translate that to "leave it in a cold/hot car"), that will happen and I'll end up teaching how to "fix it" sooner. If she's barking "that's wrong" at them, then that's not a great teaching technique right there... but I hate to judge from afar, it's so much more fun in person. ;-)

 

I often unpack my own instrument while my first student plays through a piece. I don't make them wait to start; I've helped them tune and they are playing their review songs. Sometimes I join in halfway through to play the duet part, sometimes not. Sometimes I have to dig out a duet part if it's not one of the jillion pieces I have in my head from teaching them repeatedly. My unpacking isn't the start of the lesson: their playing is. If your kids are all ready to go and have their instruments out, and are maybe even warming up on whatever piece they should be doing, would that help get things going? If I were going to a student's house and they didn't have their stuff ready when I arrived, my lesson clock would still start when I walk in the door. They could have been unpacked and ready to go... I am essentially waiting for them even though they're home! It might also make me more relaxed about unpacking quickly myself. I know the student is paying, but my time is also of value, kwim? And the tenor of the lesson/home is set by the mom in that regard. Not saying you're necessarily late or whatnot, just a thought.

 

If you do decide to continue with her, for the sake of your relationship you need to ask her to come at a quarter till and say you "need to get the lesson started at that time so you can fit the 90 minutes of teaching time before whatever o'clock". You can pretend to be apologetic and also say you'll have the kids get ready before she arrives from now on, too, etc.

 

If I ever canceled day-of I would probably give one free lesson to make it up.

 

ETA: It's a good idea to observe several lessons with a teacher before signing on the dotted line. Maybe it would help you to see her work with others... to help confirm or deny your current impression of her.

[TravelingChris]

I pay 20 for a half hour that often turns into 35 or 40 or last time 45 minutes.