Ask a Pagan Thread

[Rosie_0801]

What is the difference between Wiccan, Druid, neopagan and reconstructionist? :D

 

*snort*

 

Go read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Paganism-Introduction-Earth-Centered-Religions/dp/0738702226

 

Then go read some books on Wicca, some more on Druids and some on reconstructionists. Or pray someone will think of a way to answer you in less than 1500 characters or whatever the limit is in this format. :p

[Ipsey]

I don't have any misconceptions or ignorance about paganism. I saw in post 6 you said "I'm an atheist in that I don't believe in any literal gods. I believe in all of them as ideas with power". I guess I haven't spyed [sic] on the Atheist thread enough to have my question answered!

 

Didn't see Bethany's question; I'll have to go look. Thanks.

 

What was your question? Was it about why atheists and pagans talk so badly about conservative religious people, but Christians never talk ugly about non-believers?

 

I think a couple of people did answer that.

[Audrey]

What is the difference between Wiccan, Druid, neopagan and reconstructionist? :D

 

 

That could fill a whole book! :laugh:

 

Oh! Wait! It did!!

Paganism: An Introduction to Earth Centred Religions (Joyce & River Higginbotham)

 

Giggles aside, that is a very good book for explaining the basic tenets of a huge variety of Pagan paths. It may also be one of the most oft recommended books by Pagans to curious others.

 

 

ETA: Doh! Rosie beat me to the rec. :laugh:

[Izzy]

 

 

I don't have any misconceptions or ignorance about paganism. I saw in post 6 you said "I'm an atheist in that I don't believe in any literal gods. I believe in all of them as ideas with power". I guess I haven't spyed [sic] on the Atheist thread enough to have my question answered!

 

Didn't see Bethany's question; I'll have to go look. Thanks.

 

Reason number 4,521,083,357 I am annoyed by the Christian faith. I'm just speaking for myself, of course.

 

 

[jeninok]

 

Here's the other thing I was wondering about. What do you think about life after death? Do you believe in reincarnation, or do you think this life is it? Just curious - and interested!

 

I think I might believe in reincarnation, but I do take a lot of physical comfort in the idea of the continuity of matter.

 

http://thankgodforevolution.com/node/1960

 

That particular essay sums up a lot of how I feel, and brings me comfort. But I do think i might believe in reincarnation and certain souls being connected through time, but I don't base any of my actual living around the idea.

[Juniper]

*snort*

 

Go read this:

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/0738702226

 

Then go read some books on Wicca, some more on Druids and some on reconstructionists. Or pray someone will think of a way to answer you in less than 1500 characters or whatever the limit is in this format. :p

 

I know....I know....I know! :) I did read through the online portion (specifically the table of contents) and didn't see where it divides out the various pagan "denominations." Is it really in there? ;)

[HelenNotOfTroy]

What is the difference between Wiccan, Druid, neopagan and reconstructionist? :D

 

Wicca is a modern religion based loosely on Celtic traditions and 19th century occultism. Druid, historically, is a person who was a religious leader in the Celtic tradition, but more modernly is harder to classify. Neopagan is a catchall term to refer to all pagans from new or rebuilt traditions, to be distinct from historical pagan faiths (like pre-Christian European or pre-Islamic Middle Eastern faiths) or ongoing traditions like the previously mentioned indigenous people of the Americas, Australia, or Africa, as well as Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. Reconstructionist means that the person wants to research what history or archeology says that a group of people did for religion historically and only use things that can be shown to have been used historically.

[Onceuponatime]

Here is another question:

 

Do some people really believe in the existence of Viking and Egyptian Gods and Goddesses as actual beings? Or are they just symbolic, "ideas with power?" I know this is within the realm of possibility, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Please do not be offended if you do.

[jeninok]

I know....I know....I know! :) I did read through the online portion (specifically the table of contents) and didn't see where it divides out the various pagan "denominations." Is it really in there? ;)

 

 

Most people I know who fall into the "pagan" category can't be neatly summed up into any denomination or practice. Many of us are constantly learning, reading, searching, and drawing in the things that speak to us. It is an intensely personal journey for most, even those of us who don't actually believe in a diety thereby making us actual atheists in a sense.

 

This pretty much sums up how it goes at our house, this is our "china cabinet" which is full of things that hold particular meaning or wisdom to us. There are various representations of world religions, an owl plate with a wonderful saying, a candle holder given to me my by my mother, an owl representing a passed loved one, a native american medicine bag that holds the most sacred small items in our life as well as items belonging to others in our chosen family, and a few other keepsakes from childhood and ancestors. Next to the cabinet you will find bookshelves full of science, various theology, nature studies, some new agey stuff, and notebooks.

 

We don't actually do anything with the items in the cabinet, but they are given a place of honor in the house.

 

Well shoot, I can't attach the images....I don't know why!

[tex-bex]

 

 

The Wheel of the Year as a structure was constructed in northern Europe where they have four seasons of roughly the same length. In most of Australia we actually have 6, which are not of the same length, even if we still teach our kindergarten kids the Northern European model. (:rolleyes: Will that ever go out of fashion?) Though, since Australia was settled by Europeans and they bought their deciduous trees, we have a seventh, which hides inside the native seasons. Cool huh?

 

 

This blows my mind in the most fabulous way! I've always felt the seasons were misrepresented. In north Texas, they certainly don't match up to the ideal! ;) I'm so weirdly happy about the concept of other seasons!

 

 

To clarify, since I was just helping a neice on a paper, in general, agnostics believe that the existence of a deity is unknowable. And to further complicate the world, a person can be an agnostic, an agnostic theist, or an agnostic atheist. I like "unknowable" as it is a richer explanation than simply no proof.

 

I like "unknowable." I fall into that category. And I don't feel it is necessary TO know. I don't think knowing would change the way I view life. :)

[Χά�ων]

Here is another question:

 

Do some people really believe in the existence of Viking and Egyptian Gods and Goddesses as actual beings? Or are they just symbolic, "ideas with power?" I know this is within the realm of possibility, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Please do not be offended if you do.

 

 

DS is a believer in the Greek Gods and through my research I found a documentry calld "I Still Worship Zeus" or something like that. It talks about the struggles of people in Greece who follow the old gods.

[HelenNotOfTroy]

Here is another question:

 

Do some people really believe in the existence of Viking and Egyptian Gods and Goddesses as actual beings? Or are they just symbolic, "ideas with power?" I know this is within the realm of possibility, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Please do not be offended if you do.

 

 

There are pagans who do, these are people who have relationships with their gods and goddesses just as a Christian has a relationship with the Christian God or Jesus Christ.

[Audrey]

I know....I know....I know! :) I did read through the online portion (specifically the table of contents) and didn't see where it divides out the various pagan "denominations." Is it really in there? ;)

 

 

 

Yes, they're in there.

 

Or, quickly... here are my top book recs:

 

On Wicca

 

On Druidism and this one too (Philip Carr-Gomm also made the most beautiful Druid animal oracle deck. EVER! and the most beautiful Druid tarot deck ever and everthing he makes is gorgeous, so I'll stop rambling like some kind of fan or something... ;) )

 

Regarding Neopagans and Reconstructionists.... in a teeny tiny nutshell...

 

Neopagans are following precepts of ancient ways, but are not overly concerned with the "authenticity" of those ways. Rather, neopagans are adapting old ways to a new age.

 

Reconstructionists, on the other hand, want to recreate as much of the ancient ways as possible with "authenticity." They emphasize historical accuracy and are not interested in adaptation as much.

 

That said, neopagans and reconstructionists may be of ANY stripe of paganism. So you might have Celtic Reconstructionists and Norse Reconstructionists as easily as you might have Celtic Neopagans and Norse Neopagans.

 

ETA: I put "authenticity" in quotes only because that word can get people a little shirty, and I didn't want anyone to say I was claiming to know what the heck "authentic" means to them.

[Onceuponatime]

 

There are pagans who do, these are people who have relationships with their gods and goddesses just as a Christian has a relationship with the Christian God or Jesus Christ.

 

I do see the parallels, but finding myself moving away from the protestant Christian concept of God makes me wonder how someone finds themselves believing in something that has relatively less publicity and apologetics.

[elizabeth]

Another question....I am seeing that Wicca is more recent "denomination" of the wider pagan practice/path. How does one find information on nature based spiritual practices that pre-date this as well a Christianity?

Look up Reconstructionist Hellenistic for a sample of what early pagan practice might have looked like. A rather well known poster here wrote a book on the subject that is considered the best and most comprehensive ever written. Other nature based spiritual practices would be hedge witchery, Balkan witchcraft, Appalachian granny magick, African American Hoodoo(I am a practitioner) Celtic Reconstructionist, many ATR(African Tribal Religions) that found their way into Cuba, Mexico and Brazil called Santeria, Candomble and Lucumi as well as Palo. I am out of the closet now ladies. Ask away. If you wish to see an altar picture here are links

http://api.ning.com/...e.jpg?width=721

A great article on santeria

http://www.earthenve...erySlavery.html

And my tradition Hoodoo

http://www.moonstruc..._stuff2_002.jpg

 

Many of the altars will vary according to the particular practice . Note ATR religions are not pagan in the modern use but regarding of the people in the Latin usage of the term paganus they qualify. They are many, many others not mentioned here but suffice it to say that if anyone wants book suggestions ask away. I have a library of several hundered volumes on this subject ,this is what I study, this is what I live and if you pass through Iowa and do not drop me a line to say howdy and stop by for my famous Lady Baltimore Cake and homemade Cherry Brandy it would be a missed opportunity to meet one another. Rosie may I applaud you for starting this thread. I am so delighted to read open dialogue and questions from those I consider old friends at this point. Bethany asked if pagans believe in God and Satan. I am a hoodoo practitioner, it is African American Protestant Folk magic. I pray daily to the Abrahamic God and fear Satan in all his guises. I use Florida Water to cleanse objects I use such as my root trimmer, candle snuffer and drums and rattles. I know non deistic witches, wiccans who worship the Lord and Lady as they ritually move through the seasons of the year which are markedly identical to old agrarian festivals celebrating the turning of the wheel through the seasons of planting, cultivating and harvesting and rest. There are many different gods and goddesses persons may work with as a pagan or wiccan depending on the ethnicity of the practice . Celtics and Greek witches do not deal with the same deities but the praxis is similar. Russian and Finnish craft share many similarities as well. The Italian strega are their own deal though they do not tend to attend festivals etc. Druids are many and found all over the world coming from celtic, Irish, Welsh and in North America. For those who are curious there is a lovely publication called Witches and Pagans that has a blogroll from many of these traditions and that may clarify their similarities and differences.

witchesandpagans.com

Please do not use my sharing of the blog roll to prosleytize, most pagans know more about Judeo-Christian belief and practice than you would ever believe. And that would go against the spirit of transparency and openess that is trying to be fostered here. In peace and goodwill to all, elizabeth(who really makes the best darn Cherry Brandy in the world and is a true Iowa hostess who will bake and cook for you like none other)

[Lady Florida.]

That could fill a whole book! :laugh:

 

Oh! Wait! It did!!

Paganism: An Introduction to Earth Centred Religions (Joyce & River Higginbotham)

 

Giggles aside, that is a very good book for explaining the basic tenets of a huge variety of Pagan paths. It may also be one of the most oft recommended books by Pagans to curious others.

 

 

ETA: Doh! Rosie beat me to the rec. :laugh:

 

I read that book when I left Christianity and was searching for something else. While I liked a lot of Paganism, I eventually decided not to replace at all.

[Audrey]

I read that book when I left Christianity and was searching for something else. While I liked a lot of Paganism, I eventually decided not to replace at all.

 

 

I suppose some look for a replacement, something to fill the space where their previous time was spent, but there really isn't a need to, is there?

 

Live and be.

 

No gods need apply.

 

It depends on what you want, I suppose.

[HelenNotOfTroy]

I do see the parallels, but finding myself moving away from the protestant Christian concept of God makes me wonder how someone finds themselves believing in something that has relatively less publicity and apologetics.

 

There are some who have had an experience or multiple experiences that causes or reinforces a belief in a god/goddess or multiple gods and goddesses in the same way I have heard some Christians say they have personal experiences that have reinforced their faith.

[Ecclecticmum]

I wobbled away from Paganism, and am slowly wobbling my way back.

 

I haven't finished reading *subscribing* :D but wanted to add something.

 

I think the MOST important thing is to never ever assume something about someone elses spirituality or religion. Never. I don't mean asking questions like Bethany, thats perfectly fine, and to me, at least, encouraged. But assuming the worst of anothers religion because you don't understand it is very wrong. We should be able to respect anothers faith.

 

When I met DH and got married I was Pagan, deeply. I opted for a Earthy, Pagan wedding. My husband is Christian (although having faith issues) but was happy with the wedding. I sent off the invitations and my sister in law refused to come, and stopped my husbands own brother (her husband) from coming. She put her foot down and had what amounts to a huge spiritual hissy fit.

 

She didn't want to go to something that offended her religious values, and thought I was in league with Satan. This hurt me VERY deeply. Not because of her views on it (each to their own, especially when she hadn't asked or anything) but to stop DHs brother from coming upset me, because I knew somewhere it upset him. Perhaps she was upset somewhere inside her that I was pregnant whilst getting married (goodness knows, to be honest).

 

BUT you want to know the crackerjack of the situation? I found out through the grapevine something about her thinking we were going to be jumping over fire, and doing sacrifices, along with a whole bunch of other weird things (my jaw dropped when I heard this, I believe I sat that saying "what?" about 50 times).

 

Heres what actually happened: Married by a celebrant, who wrote earthy vows (I have them somewhere, but they are filled with stuff about the power of love), I wore a white modest dress that had lots of lacy frilly bits (the tailor did a good job of hiding my baby bump), we were married in private gardens (I was hoping to be married in the rose garden there, but it was drizzly, so we were married in this lovely wooden pergola with a pretty garden beside it). We had a handfasting (ribbon tied around both of our hands, I have that ribbon somewhere), and were pronounced wed inside a circle of rose petals..........I don't see that I wrote anything about fire there, maybe the rain put it out? lol, as for jumping, there was no way I was jumping anything, I would of gone A over T, I even had to have my father help me down the stairs for the wedding photos rofl. I suppose we sacrificed poor roses for the petals???? pmsl.

 

My sister in law is a very strict christian, and to be honest, she scares me. Not because of her being christian (my family is filled with christians and catholics), but because her mind is so closed, there is no room to see the beauty in the difference of people. I sent her children gifts for Xmas when we were first married, and she went off her high horse about something insensible, when we've visited she keeps pulling everyone away from me :(

 

As for my MIL, she goes to church every week, goes on about the importance of church, and then keeps trying to force us into going to church, even though I am not the same religion. The best line was (when I refused on my faith, and on account of the children): "Well its a great place to meet people" and explained I should go for social reasons! HUH? I am sorry, but that does offend me, and I am not even a part of that church. I respect churchgoers, and their faith, and would not willingly go to a church I do not have the same faith with, just for social reasons!

 

I have an adults bible, mutiple childrens bibles, plus a lot of christian based books & media. I believe in the same things I have always believed in, but at the same time I keep my mind open and constantly read and research. I think religion, no matter the faith, is a lifelong journey. Although my beliefs tend to alter slightly over the years, the big things remain the same.

 

So I would say, my faith is there, but I would probably be counted as a non-practicing pagan. I have loosely, before, associated with UU, just because the values of it as a whole, keep in line with my beliefs on religion.

 

In summary: Respect others. :p lol. I should of just wrote that. I respect my MIL and SIL (I cannot, however, say I understand them, :p ) but it would be nicer if there minds were open and they would research before assuming certain things, and to just respect that I am different from them, as I already do.

 

That was kind of a half rant/half babble, but *hopefully* it made sense. Obviously I still have a few issues to work on in the area of my in laws, but I am trying :)

[Audrey]

There are some who have had an experience or multiple experiences that causes or reinforces a belief in a god/goddess or multiple gods and goddesses in the same way I have heard some Christians say they have personal experiences that have reinforced their faith.

 

 

I do know a few fellow pagans like that. They speak of their relationships with their gods and it is identical to the way most Christians I know speak of themselves and their god/christ.

 

I find that very interesting from an anthropological standpoint.

[Rosie_0801]

Reason number 4,521,083,357 I am annoyed by the Christian faith. I'm just speaking for myself, of course.

 

Be a good girl or Bethany will not share her home brewed dandelion wine with you.

 

;)

[Rosie_0801]

Here is another question:

 

Do some people really believe in the existence of Viking and Egyptian Gods and Goddesses as actual beings? Or are they just symbolic, "ideas with power?" I know this is within the realm of possibility, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Please do not be offended if you do.

 

Yup. If people can believe the Christian god is a real dude, people can believe Hekate is a real dudette.

 

I read a very interesting blog post that I wish I'd bookmarked in a safe place. It was about an atheist pagan who had been claimed by either a goddess and was really annoyed about it. I had a dream about an Egyptian goddess who chose to not to identify herself, which I thought odd behaviour from a deity. I mean, from all the stories I've read, they seem a little show-offy. Being an atheist, I do not consider myself an authority on the behaviour of goddesses so I asked the Egyptian deity worshippers/work-with-ers on the pagan forum I read if this was normal behaviour and was told she could tell I wasn't ready for her so I ought to work at my spiritual growth to make myself ready. I tell ya, if I accidentally manage that, I'll be spitting chips!

[elizabeth]

I wobbled away from Paganism, and am slowly wobbling my way back.

 

I haven't finished reading *subscribing* :D but wanted to add something.

 

I think the MOST important thing is to never ever assume something about someone elses spirituality or religion. Never. I don't mean asking questions like Bethany, thats perfectly fine, and to me, at least, encouraged. But assuming the worst of anothers religion because you don't understand it is very wrong. We should be able to respect anothers faith.

 

When I met DH and got married I was Pagan, deeply. I opted for a Earthy, Pagan wedding. My husband is Christian (although having faith issues) but was happy with the wedding. I sent off the invitations and my sister in law refused to come, and stopped my husbands own brother (her husband) from coming. She put her foot down and had what amounts to a huge spiritual hissy fit.

 

She didn't want to go to something that offended her religious values, and thought I was in league with Satan. This hurt me VERY deeply. Not because of her views on it (each to their own, especially when she hadn't asked or anything) but to stop DHs brother from coming upset me, because I knew somewhere it upset him. Perhaps she was upset somewhere inside her that I was pregnant whilst getting married (goodness knows, to be honest).

 

BUT you want to know the crackerjack of the situation? I found out through the grapevine something about her thinking we were going to be jumping over fire, and doing sacrifices, along with a whole bunch of other weird things (my jaw dropped when I heard this, I believe I sat that saying "what?" about 50 times).

 

Heres what actually happened: Married by a celebrant, who wrote earthy vows (I have them somewhere, but they are filled with stuff about the power of love), I wore a white modest dress that had lots of lacy frilly bits (the tailor did a good job of hiding my baby bump), we were married in private gardens (I was hoping to be married in the rose garden there, but it was drizzly, so we were married in this lovely wooden pergola with a pretty garden beside it). We had a handfasting (ribbon tied around both of our hands, I have that ribbon somewhere), and were pronounced wed inside a circle of rose petals..........I don't see that I wrote anything about fire there, maybe the rain put it out? lol, as for jumping, there was no way I was jumping anything, I would of gone A over T, I even had to have my father help me down the stairs for the wedding photos rofl. I suppose we sacrificed poor roses for the petals???? pmsl.

 

My sister in law is a very strict christian, and to be honest, she scares me. Not because of her being christian (my family is filled with christians and catholics), but because her mind is so closed, there is no room to see the beauty in the difference of people. I sent her children gifts for Xmas when we were first married, and she went off her high horse about something insensible, when we've visited she keeps pulling everyone away from me :(

 

As for my MIL, she goes to church every week, goes on about the importance of church, and then keeps trying to force us into going to church, even though I am not the same religion. The best line was (when I refused on my faith, and on account of the children): "Well its a great place to meet people" and explained I should go for social reasons! HUH? I am sorry, but that does offend me, and I am not even a part of that church. I respect churchgoers, and their faith, and would not willingly go to a church I do not have the same faith with, just for social reasons!

 

I have an adults bible, mutiple childrens bibles, plus a lot of christian based books & media. I believe in the same things I have always believed in, but at the same time I keep my mind open and constantly read and research. I think religion, no matter the faith, is a lifelong journey. Although my beliefs tend to alter slightly over the years, the big things remain the same.

 

So I would say, my faith is there, but I would probably be counted as a non-practicing pagan. I have loosely, before, associated with UU, just because the values of it as a whole, keep in line with my beliefs on religion.

 

In summary: Respect others. :p lol. I should of just wrote that. I respect my MIL and SIL (I cannot, however, say I understand them, :p ) but it would be nicer if there minds were open and they would research before assuming certain things, and to just respect that I am different from them, as I already do.

 

That was kind of a half rant/half babble, but *hopefully* it made sense. Obviously I still have a few issues to work on in the area of my in laws, but I am trying :)

If you don't have inlaw issues you do not fit in here. We all have issues about something or other. This is the safe place to vent, fly your freak flag, carry on, commiserate , collaborate, remediate and have a good time mulling it all over.

[jeninok]

I suppose I have one ritual I like to do from time to time whenever I'm about to have a time that I need intensive concentration.

 

I take the incense my mother gave me and pick whatever color fits my mood. I burn the incense and close my eyes and meditate on what I need to do just for a minute or so, the class I need to study for, the grading I need to do, whatever. I wave some of the incense over my head and I make a circle of incense around myself, and the place where I'll be working, just to tell myself, "This is the time, this is the place. It's time to concentrate now."

 

It's a way of ritualizing the undertaking and making it special and meaningful in that moment.

 

I don't think it's "magic" in and of itself. It's a "psychodrama" in a way. I'm making the moment meaningful, and my mind and intentions can follow.

 

I'm doing it intentionally, and that's where the idea of "setting intentions" comes in.

 

I don't do it all of the time, just when I need to formalize an undertaking I need more focus on.

 

I know this was way back in the thread, but I do something very similar, formalized and/or group ritual always seems trite and silly to me, but having these small rituals make a huge difference in my ability to be intentional.

 

I also take a moment to "connect" with the houseplants when I tend to them, or say hello to the birds out at the feeder, sort of a good morning, I'm glad you enjoy the food, and thank you for visiting.

 

When we moved into our house we smudged with white sage, and blessed it in the sense that we brought in good intentions, respect for the space and the land it is on, and filled each corner with loving intentions.

 

It really has nothing to do with deity for me, and I don't worship nature per say, but I do feel strong connection to her.

[LibraryLover]

:laugh: What a fun thread!

[Rosie_0801]

I do see the parallels, but finding myself moving away from the protestant Christian concept of God makes me wonder how someone finds themselves believing in something that has relatively less publicity and apologetics.

 

From what I hear, people get claimed. You've heard of people converting to Christianity because of an experience of God or Jesus. The same happens. Mostly people describe it as "being hit upside the head until I stopped pretending not to notice."

[Rosie_0801]

Thank you Elizabeth. I wasn't expecting anyone to go hardcore on here! :)

 

There's a bloke on the forum I read who is a Lithuanian reconstructionist. That's been fun to listen in on. :)

[Audrey]

From what I hear, people get claimed. You've heard of people converting to Christianity because of an experience of God or Jesus. The same happens. Mostly people describe it as "being hit upside the head until I stopped pretending not to notice."

 

I had the same experience with my dh. He just kept insisting he was going to marry me until I finally stopped pretending he was out of his mind.

[Onceuponatime]

 

There are some who have had an experience or multiple experiences that causes or reinforces a belief in a god/goddess or multiple gods and goddesses in the same way I have heard some Christians say they have personal experiences that have reinforced their faith.

 

Thank you for explaining. It never occurred to me that that was the case, but why not?

[Rosie_0801]

 

I think the MOST important thing is to never ever assume something about someone elses spirituality or religion. Never. I don't mean asking questions like Bethany, thats perfectly fine, and to me, at least, encouraged. But assuming the worst of anothers religion because you don't understand it is very wrong. We should be able to respect anothers faith.

 

Good advice, but let us remember that this is not the Alternative Spirituality social group thread, ok?

[mommymilkies]

 

Here is another question:

 

Do some people really believe in the existence of Viking and Egyptian Gods and Goddesses as actual beings? Or are they just symbolic, "ideas with power?" I know this is within the realm of possibility, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Please do not be offended if you do.

 

Yes. There are soft theists and hard theists. Soft theists think of them as aspects or "ideas" for lack of a better word. Hard theists think of them as physical beings, as well. Think Percy Jackson books. Most I have known were in the soft polytheist category, but not all. Of course, if you ask ten pagans what that means, you'll get twelve different answers. ;)

[HelenNotOfTroy]

Modern paganism tends to be very personal, even for those in groups.

[elizabeth]

I had the same experience with my dh. He just kept insisting he was going to marry me until I finally stopped pretending he was out of his mind.

That is beautiful!

[Lady Florida.]

I suppose some look for a replacement, something to fill the space where their previous time was spent, but there really isn't a need to, is there?

 

Live and be.

 

No gods need

 

apply.

 

It depends on what you want, I suppose.

 

 

Yes, at first I felt like I needed a replacement. I explored both Pagan and New Age beliefs. After a while I realized I was most comfortable with simply letting go of my old beliefs and just leaving it at that.

 

If I ever did identify as a witch though, I'd have to call myself either a kitchen witch or a garden witch.

[KarenNC]

 

I know....I know....I know! :) I did read through the online portion (specifically the table of contents) and didn't see where it divides out the various pagan "denominations." Is it really in there? ;)

 

 

They would only be "denominations" in the way that Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikhism, and Jainism are "denominations" of monotheism. They are separate religions, in some cases even more different from each other than the monotheistic religions I mentioned are.

 

The Higginbotham book is good (you can skip over the exercises if you just want information). Other books that might be of interest (depending on how deeply you want to jump into this ;) ):

The Complete Idiot's Guide to Paganism by Carl McColman---nice survey

 

Triumph of the Moon: A history of modern Pagan Witchcraft by British historian Ronald Hutton---great if you want a readable but scholarly examination of the societal trends in England that led up to the birth of Wicca in the mid 20th century, how it moved to America to mingle with feminism and split into a number of different groups. Although we are not Wiccan, I loved this one not only for the historical information on Wicca, but for a study of how a new religion develops. I see a lot of parallels between this and the material I have read on the birth of Christianity.

 

Her Hidden Children: the rise of Paganism in America by Chas Clifton---looks at the development of Wicca in the US

 

A World Full of Gods: an inquiry into polytheism by John Michael Greer----great look at theology in polytheistic terms

 

The Deities Are Many: a polytheistic theology by Jordan Paper

 

Pagan Theology: Paganism as a world religion by Michael York

 

(I haven't read the last two, but my husband highly recommends them.)

[KarenNC]

Yes. There are soft theists and hard theists. Soft theists think of them as aspects or "ideas" for lack of a better word. Hard theists think of them as physical beings, as well. Think Percy Jackson books. Most I have known were in the soft polytheist category, but not all. Of course, if you ask ten pagans what that means, you'll get twelve different answers. ;)

 

 

I'm closer to a hard polytheist. I see the Gods (in my case, primarily the Greek pantheon) as much more than ideas or as aspects of a unified Deity. I don't believe that a singular omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent deity actually exists or, if such does somewhere/somehow, it is as relevant to my life as the Horsehead Nebula is to an ant. I don't, however, think of the Gods as physical beings, ones that I could climb to the top of Mt. Olympus and touch. I understand Them as part of our world (immanent rather than transcendant) but a different class of beings than ourselves. I don't worship N/nature, because I don't see it as something apart from myself, the Gods, flora, fauna, etc.

 

I see myself more as the "neo" portion of Neopagan in that I'm more of a revivalist than a reconstructionist. I fully realize I'm not an ancient Athenian nor am I living in that society, so my worship will not be able to be the corporate worship of the ancients. There's no way I could recreate that. My understanding and experience of the Gods is shaped by my society, my experiences, and the way the Gods have been experienced throughout Western culture over the millenia. It's informed by the information we have about the ways the ancients worshiped, but there's a hefty dose of personal gnosis in there as well. My understanding of religion has definitely been influenced by my Protestant Christian upbringing and our contact with/exposure to Reform Judaism, Shinto and Buddhism. Pretty Hellenic, actually, given the mix of cultures in places like Alexandria and the syncretism that occurred in many religions in the ancient world. I think of it as similar to the way that the worship practices in Roman Britain didn't look exactly like the ones in Rome, or that modern Christian practices often bear only a minimal resemblance to what we know of the practices of the first century AD. Life is not static, so I see no reason to believe that our understanding of religion should be static.

 

So, polytheistic revivalist Hellenic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist, little to no interest in magic (with or without a k ;) ), who is pretty spotty with rituals. We primarily observe Winter Solstice as a religious holiday (Christmas is a separate thing that we celebrate as a cultural festival with family), other holidays as we think about it---mostly the American cultural holidays. We do have a few altars in the house (and one outside where we pour libations occasionally)---one to Athena (as patron of our school efforts), one to Zeus and Hera (as patrons of marriage), one to all the Olympians (this one is done in Playmobil figures :) ), one to Kwan Yin, an ancestor altar, one for Hestia (patron of the hearth), and one for Columbia/Liberty/Freedom (patron of America---has a copy of the statue of Freedom from the Capitol dome, incorporating some of the original marble from the East Front of the Capitol).

[KarenNC]

 

From what I hear, people get claimed. You've heard of people converting to Christianity because of an experience of God or Jesus. The same happens. Mostly people describe it as "being hit upside the head until I stopped pretending not to notice."

 

 

That was pretty much my experience.

[HollyDay]

I am learning many things from this thread! Thank you Rosie for staring it. One question, I don't see answered yet........What about an after life? What do you think happens after your physical time on earth in this life (or form) is ended? Where do you go or what do you become?

[KarenNC]

DS is a believer in the Greek Gods and through my research I found a documentry calld "I Still Worship Zeus" or something like that. It talks about the struggles of people in Greece who follow the old gods.

 

 

You can check out Hellenion www.hellenion.org or Hellenismos www.hellenismos.us to get an idea of what's out there in the US, though I haven't been on those boards in quite a while. They tend more toward the reconstructionist end than we do. There's an old post with a suggested religious education outline for kids http://www.ecauldron.net/dc-homereled.php. We've primarily focused on steeping our daughter in the mythos, lots of discussion, participating in the National Mythology Exam (kind of like Christian families do with things like the Bible Bee) and, now that she's old enough, considering the Medusa exam. We've tried getting involved in the local Pagan community but haven't meshed. It's very Wicca-centric and/or Goddess-worship oriented, and those are very different religions and worship styles than ours (though there evidently are Hellenic Wiccans, just to mix things up :) ). We've found a community spiritual home in the local Unitarian Universalist church. We are still the string that hangs off the fringe, theologically speaking :D , but it's a great community. We can't even manage to be mainstream Pagans.......

[Shawna in Texas]

I dabbled in Paganism after my first was born. I'd finally shed the Christianity label because it had been over a decade since I might have actually believed (don't know if I ever did). A child's imagination is sort of a magical place, and I wanted to give her something that was complementary to that, so observing the wheel of the year was a fun and reverent way to do that. Found a fun group of witches in Austin, but ultimately I'm just too lazy to be pagan. :tongue_smilie: At that point I considered myself an apathetic agnostic (of the don't know, don't care variety) with some pantheistic tendencies (love the beach, dopamine goes all wonky there), but really couldn't be arsed to keep up with anything. My oldest kept an altar when she was younger. It was a natural thing she did, nothing that was taught to her or discussed. She kept rocks and leaves and shells and scarves.

 

Sometimes I'd like to incorporate the wheel back in, but we have birthdays and anniversaries that fall on some of those days, and we always recognize the pagan roots of our more common celebrations. Beltane is always good fun, but the kids are always around because we never remember to get a sitter ahead of time.

 

But I think paganism has always been more fluid for me, and more about revering nature and being awed over the potential of stardust, than defining god. In my teens I remember defining god as a karmic force, and that was only because I didn't realize that I was able to own disbelieving. It sounds silly, but when you're raised with the notion that everything not of God, is of the Devil, you take a bit longer to feel out for other things, let alone admit to them.

 

So currently: Atheist with beach induced dopamine wonkiness, and lazy Beltane celebrations. I do try, though.

[KarenNC]

To continue the discussion of the importance of place in some forms of Pagan spirituality, we're very excited about the upcoming seminar put on jointly by Cherry Hill Seminary (a Neopagan seminary) and the University of South Carolina, "Sacred Lands and Spiritual Landscapes: a cosmography of the Pagan Soul," in April. Ronald Hutton is one of the featured speakers! http://www.cherryhillseminary.org/ and click on the image of the flyer to get more information. We're hoping to attend.

 

It makes perfect sense to me to adjust seasonal celebrations to accurately reflect some aspect of the season you are actually in. The origins of the various celebrations were tied to actual events, not abstract notions. The wheel of the year is itself a modern adaptation and syncretization of the celebrations from several different ancient northern European religions. We try to learn as much about our local geography and history as part of our religious practice.

[KarenNC]

I am learning many things from this thread! Thank you Rosie for staring it. One question, I don't see answered yet........What about an after life? What do you think happens after your physical time on earth in this life (or form) is ended? Where do you go or what do you become?

 

 

No idea. I have enough to worry about trying to live an ethical life here and now. :)

[Shawna in Texas]

I am learning many things from this thread! Thank you Rosie for staring it. One question, I don't see answered yet........What about an after life? What do you think happens after your physical time on earth in this life (or form) is ended? Where do you go or what do you become?

 

 

I think you could ask 10 different Pagans and get 10 different answers. Some are fine with not knowing and some are quite confident about what might happen. I bookmarked this awhile back. It's the last couple paragraphs that are relevant. I think it's one of the most beautiful views of what happens after death, and one that many Pagans agree on (or a least the Pagans I know).

[Rosie_0801]

To continue the discussion of the importance of place in some forms of Pagan spirituality, we're very excited about the upcoming seminar put on jointly by Cherry Hill Seminary (a Neopagan seminary)

 

You have neopagan seminaries? You Americans are so American! People here run workshops but nothing on the scale that could be called a seminary! Smaller population, maybe. Or perhaps we're too lazy to bother. :p There's an American chick on our local pagan FB group who was asking around for a decent pagan "what's on" newsletter and no one could suggest anything suitable. I guess that comes down to the cultural differences between the Australian and American need for community in religion.

 

and the University of South Carolina, "Sacred Lands and Spiritual Landscapes: a cosmography of the Pagan Soul," in April. Ronald Hutton is one of the featured speakers! http://www.cherryhillseminary.org/ and click on the image of the flyer to get more information. We're hoping to attend.

 

Ooh. I read an interview with him on one of the blogs I follow. He's cool!

 

It makes perfect sense to me to adjust seasonal celebrations to accurately reflect some aspect of the season you are actually in. The origins of the various celebrations were tied to actual events, not abstract notions. The wheel of the year is itself a modern adaptation and syncretization of the celebrations from several different ancient northern European religions. We try to learn as much about our local geography and history as part of our religious practice.

 

Us too. It's interesting to hear the conflict with some folks around here between their desire to adapt to local environment and their desire to be true to their European roots.

[Melissa in Australia]

Here is another question:

 

Do some people really believe in the existence of Viking and Egyptian Gods and Goddesses as actual beings? Or are they just symbolic, "ideas with power?" I know this is within the realm of possibility, I just have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Please do not be offended if you do.

I am not a pagan, brought up a Christian in fact, This is what we were taught:

We were taught that these types of Gods and Goddesses, (especially Greek ones but I am sue it would include Viking ones ans possibly Egyptian ones), are actually human memories of when Angeles came down to earth and bread with humans, having offspring that were sort of super human hybrids. The great flood destroyed them all, but the memory and legends carried on.

[Ecclecticmum]

I had the same experience with my dh. He just kept insisting he was going to marry me until I finally stopped pretending he was out of his mind.

 

:D

 

A pretty similar thing happened here. I was strongly into the "never ever" going to get married view. I didn't need someone else, was very independant and my family knew this (and had to listen to me rant about it, I still get lots of karma from that, from them ;) )

 

I headed off for a tour round Aus, and didn't get very far. DH came in like a knight in shining armor when I was having some trouble, swooped me up, and we moved into a family-styled hostel (rented house with lots of UK people, whom we ended up befriending). From the moment he met me, he kept asking me to marry him, and the poor thing, I kept saying no. It was a bit of a whirlwind romance, we got to know each other quite well and quickly basically living together, and not working (he wasn't working, I was picking up the odd modelling contract whilst holidaying). About the 48th time he asked, for some reason I broke down, relented and agreed. About 4 days afterward I found out I was pregnant (HUGE shocker for me, I had been in a not-so-good relationship before that where the guy and I were actually trying to get pregnant, he already had a daughter with another girl, and I was told by the doctors I had major scarring and some sort of collapsed tube (TBH, I was in shock, I had always wanted a baby, and to just hear you can never have one is devastating, I don't recall the *exact* problem, but I remember bits like "major scarring" and "collapsed *something* *something* tubes). So then I found out I was pregnant and basically went into shock. I blame agreeing, plus all the stuff I have been through in the past 8 yrs, on pregnancy hormones rofl. I went a bit crazy :p All hormones are now out of my system, somehow we managed to have another two kids, but DH is now sterilized on doctors orders (my womb dropped majorly, during the last pregnancy, I was told if I get pregnant again, I could chance both the babies and my health or at worst our life).

 

Back to subject, a question.

 

We're bringing up the kids (for the moment) with general bible stories and an understanding of the Christian God, in respect for their fathers beliefs. With mine, I bring in more of an earthy Mother Nature view, as well as scientifical facts, and multicultural beliefs (right now we are learning about the Prince aka Buddha). The way I bring all of this in (and started all of this) was talking about Faith & Religion, an overview of What & Hows of faith, and a mini overview of world religions. I would of liked to have brought them up with my views, but its a family household, and I respect my husbands beliefs too, so I thought a better way was to bring them up the way I was brought up (Christian basics with a multicultural faith overview) and allow them to make their own decisions, and follow their own paths when they get a little older.

 

So the question is: In what faith do you bring up your own children? Is you husband of the same faith? If you husband & yourself are of different faiths how does he react to you being a practicing pagan? Do you have troubles with inlaws and your faith (and perhaps them trying to impose their faith upon your kids), if so, how do you deal with this?

 

I miss my altar, and my garden of herbs (most of those would definitely not be okay to be planted round children or pets unfortunately). Like Belladonna for instance, which I made the ointments for a friends coven they used for their drumming rituals. Does anyone else here actually use Belladonna? (there's another question). I can't remember, but I don't think I used it apart from making the ointment, as far as i am aware it seems to be quite limited nowadays except for use in covens, so just wonderin' :lurk5:

[Rosie_0801]

So the question is: In what faith do you bring up your own children?

 

I don't know really. I'm not trying to bring them up to be me, so instructing them in my own personal beliefs and stuff seems odd. Ds is too young for any of it, and dd is barely old enough. She has her own little altar, because the chap at the gem show gave her a little geode and I bought her a quartz pillar for Christmas because she liked it. I keep my crystals on my altar so *obviously* that is the proper place to keep them. Only she thinks her altar is very poor quality because it doesn't have any candles. :p For the rest, she's got a language delay so we're not developmentally able to have those kinds of discussions. I guess they'll wait until she's old enough to ask question, though I plan to start including world religion in our homeschool next year. The vocab will do her good even if she doesn't understand the concepts at all.

 

Is you husband of the same faith? If you husband & yourself are of different faiths how does he react to you being a practicing pagan?

 

Haven't got a husband, but no he isn't. He was/is all in favour of me practicing because spirituality is important to him, but he hasn't a system to raise his kids in and I do. I'm a very mundane pagan though so there's not a lot for him to object to. Not that he's the type to raise objections and would probably not object if I wanted to teach the kids dragon magic, even though he thinks it is silly. (Don't ask me what dragon magic is. I was surprised to learn there was such a thing outside of role playing games.) It's more important to both of us that the kids grow up well informed, have thought out their inclinations carefully and are polite about everyone else's than the actual content of their beliefs. That's why the differences in content have never been an issue between us.

 

Do you have troubles with inlaws and your faith (and perhaps them trying to impose their faith upon your kids), if so, how do you deal with this?

 

No, though I am keeping an eye on the issue. Ex lives with his mother and she invited him and dd to church the other week. I can't say I was pleased that he dropped her off at the church kinder and left her there while he went to the service but it was only colouring in and she had fun. The day she comes home telling me anything more hardcore than "I did colouring in at church" will be the day I direct a flea towards Ex's ear. I don't want to be having to negotiate intricacies like "I don't believe that but I'm not calling Grandma a liar" before dd has the language to discuss and understand them, kwim? She attends a very liberal church and in the ten years I've known her, that's all the info I have collected about her faith so I don't expect anyone to be preaching fire and brimstone at the kid; but ex MIL is the type who believes it her role in life to correct the flaws in her grand children's upbringing and I'm already in the class of people she would rather pretend didn't exist. I was not very pleased that my permission wasn't sought beforehand, as Ex acknowledges he'd have been angry if I had done that. (Though I would have given permission and so would he.)

[Hunter's Moon]

This has been a really interesting read. I have read a lot of different belief systems, including those within Paganism.

 

I think a lot of the misunderstandings about Paganism come from the fact that Paganism is not a belief system dependent on the existence of a god/gods.

 

Within paganism, there are atheists, agnostics, and theists. Even within that, there are monotheists, hard polytheists (believe each god/goddess is their own separate entity), soft polytheists (believe the gods/goddesses are ideas or are views of one main high power), pantheists (god is the universe), panentheists (god is in and beyond the universe), and lots more. Even within the brief definitions there are different ideas.

 

There are many pagan "flavors" such as Wicca, Druidry, Shamanism, Keltic Reconstruction (or Reformed, or Orthodox), etc. There are even Christo-Pagans (those who believe in the divinity of Christ but also practice magick or divination or even believe in other deities but choose Christ as their main deity, or Patron).

 

It is interesting, because if you look at Catholicism or Orthodoxy, you can see a few practices still left over from pre-Christian days. A lot of it was done to help pagans assimilate into the fold of Christianity, such as the statues and icons, the intercession of Saints, etc. Some pagans even have their own prayer beads, similar to Rosary beads. Of course, prayer beads are used in other systems, such as Buddhism and Islam.

 

I think I believe in Reincarnation. Not that our entire soul is recycled, but little pieces of us are recycled into different things. Some children are old souls. Some people have an affinity towards something that is not of their time or culture, and that could be a small way of their old self showing through.

[Laura Corin]

My understanding of it is that agnostics believe in some higher power but they cant identify what the higher power is

 

I take it as more that agnostics don't know if there is a higher power or not.

 

Laura

[KarenNC]

So the question is: In what faith do you bring up your own children? Is you husband of the same faith? If you husband & yourself are of different faiths how does he react to you being a practicing pagan? Do you have troubles with inlaws and your faith (and perhaps them trying to impose their faith upon your kids), if so, how do you deal with this?

 

She is being raised in our faith. My husband actually was the one who was a practicing Neopagan when we met. I was still trying to convince myself that I could remain Christian (it was a very long journey). Inlaws/parents----inlaws, no, they just think we're a bit odd. My parents are very fundamentalist Reformed Christian so we don't discuss religion around them. That doesn't mean they don't continue to try to "bring us back into the fold."

 

I do work to make sure my daughter is familiar with the Jewish/Christian mythos (myth= "sacred stories a group tells to teach its members how to be human and how to relate to that which is beyond our current understanding," not myth="stories for kids and illiterate savages," as it is often used to denigrate the sacred stories of a group other than the one in power). Literacy in our culture requires a thorough grounding in Classical myth, the Christian Bible and Shakespeare. For instance, we'll be using Windows to the World precisely because it teaches about Biblical allusions.