SOCIAL GROUP: Atheists, agnostics, free-thinkers, non-believers

[deannajo]

I'm pm'ing you too Desert Rat - I just picked up one of the cheap copies off of Amazon, and will be looking at it to see if I want to use it next year or not.

 

Thanks!

[Mom-ninja.]

I haven't had a hard time finding secular materials.

[dbmamaz]

I was actually looking at Pagan blogs the other day to learn what is what about which turned into me looking at Wicca and Wiccan websites which led me to look into magic and I found myself thinking God was going to punish me. I'm 38 years old and no longer believe in that God. The indoctrination is that powerful.

This makes me think of my husband. I was raised very loosely jewish and he was raised catholic (in french canada). He says he does not believe in it, but would never answer any of my questions about what exactly he does and does not believe. his only comment (repeatedly) was something about the priests driving around in sports cars with good-looking married women.

 

But . . . when our son was 2, he kinda had a breakdown and decided to leave me. The night before he moved out, he told me he was going to hell for what he was doing to me and the kids. I said "I thought you didnt believe in god?" and he said "I dont, but i still believe in hell. thats what the catholic church does to you."

 

i felt so bad for him! He was actually being all nice and lovey that night. My older kids were away and he spent the night in my bed - just talking and sleeping. He was so confused. and he did come back. We were about 40 that year.

[Spryte]

 

Funny story: Three friends and I were hanging out the park with our kids when missionaries attacked. The other 3 ladies were Christian. I wasn't interested in crazy talk. I very blatently yelled, "What's that Son? Momma's coming!" You should have seen the look on my son's face. LOL After 30 minutes the missionaries finally left. I walked back over to my friends. They were mad at me! They said that, being the atheist, they expected me to get rid of the missionaries and 'save' them! :laugh: I told them I don't engage zealots. You never win.

 

 

:lol: Totally stealing the, "What's that Son? Momma's coming!" exit line! Our park is full of zealots and I never know how to get away!

[Izzy]

I'm in the middle of math so just doing a fly by. :D We are failing miserably with Singapore 1A. It takes 2 or 3 days to get one lesson done. My first grader can easily do math he just does not think in the Singapore way. I like the workbook approach like CLE but I'm really not into the religious approach of it. Is there anything like that? I don't want scripted and I want simple. The boy loves workbooks.

[dbmamaz]

have you checked out math mammoth?

[StartingOver]

Izzy have you seen Miquon, or Rosie's videos at educationunboxed.com ?? The videos really helped to see different ways to do Singapore for my two very different children.

[Izzy]

Izzy have you seen Miquon, or Rosie's videos at educationunboxed.com ?? The videos really helped to see different ways to do Singapore for my two very different children.

 

No, I haven't seen those. Right now I'm kind of in freak out mode because we are only halfway through 1A. I know he can do math the regular way but he's slow going with Singapore. Thanks, I'll look at the videos. :)

 

I actually have Math Mammoth and use it for extra practice but I need something more laid out for me. I do better with some sort of lesson plans.

[StartingOver]

No, I haven't seen those. Right now I'm kind of in freak out mode because we are only halfway through 1A. I know he can do math the regular way but he's slow going with Singapore. Thanks, I'll look at the videos. :)

 

I actually have Math Mammoth and use it for extra practice but I need something more laid out for me. I do better with some sort of lesson plans.

 

We used the Miquon rods and Rosie's videos to introduce new concepts and for as long as they wish to use the rods. My daughter uses them much more than my son does.

[lailasmum]

We're atheists. This a really interesting thread.

 

I have found it a bit hard to find secular curriculum at times. I think is compunded by being in the UK though and I can't always get hold of the resources I want. There are plus sides to being here though because i think the British politeness means that people don't really talk about religion and you barely ever see religious content to programming on TV unless you go looking for it (or at Christmas a little more).

[Laura Corin]

people don't really talk about religion and you barely ever see religious content to programming on TV unless you go looking for it (or at Christmas a little more).

 

Yes. I normally only find out that someone is churchgoing when I'm trying to work out a play date for Hobbes, and the other parent says that they are busy on Sunday morning.

 

Laura

[albeto]

No. I didn't say it was easy. It is certainly far easier to purchase a boxed curriculum than to cobble an education together yourself. However, that boxed curriculum doesn't know your children, or his strengths and weaknesses, nor his quirks or passions. You do. You are truly the only one who can select the educational materials that are going to speak to him and help him find success in his education.

 

But it also isn't hard. It just takes more time than opening a boxed curriculum. I would argue, though, that the time you spend on crafting your child's personalized education is time that you, yourself, spend learning about your child and about homeschooling as it applies in your own household. There is no single answer for everyone. We all have different children! However, we, as parent-educators, can craft the answer that works for each one of our children -- if we are willing and able to invest the time to do so.

 

 

 

This was my experience. Eventually we put off those curricula that didn't work until we realized we were no longer using any curriculum at all. Turns out, my kids didn't remember anything they learned through books, but things they learned on their own because they were interested are stuck tight in their brains.

 

But for making a curriculum, I started with a history "spine," reading various book lists to pick and choose those books I thought were most important and would appeal to each child. I looked at various pre-made curricula for ideas. When my kids were just a bit too old, I found this book which I think would have saved me much time: U.S. History Through Children's Literature: From the Colonial Period to World War II and Teaching U.S. History Through Children's Literature: Post-World War II

 

For science, I would have liked to have tried this when my kids were the right ages: Science Through Children's Literature: An Integrated Aproach. Instead, I found my kids gravitated towards such different things, no curricula would have worked. For example one child found video after video explaining cellular biology on youtube, and that catapulted his scientific learning by opening up all kinds of avenues to information. Lots of resources are linked through youtube and wikipedia, and various university websites.

 

Math is, I think, the easiest to find, because there are dedicated math programs.

 

Art, language, etc, can be found easily by searching resources available for home education.

 

If I were to start over, I would just strew a lot of DK books and things in the Brown Paper School series, and pack a lunch, hop in the car, and go explore our area.

 

albeto, "angry" atheist (not really angry, but not particularly willing to smile politely while someone pees on my leg and tells me it's raining)

[dbmamaz]

I'm using Zinn as a history supplement for my 16 yo, but i have to say, i dont much like it. he seems to just list a bunch of historical details about the poor shoved in to chapters with over-arching themes - but he does not really tie it together or draw much in the way of conclusions. I make my son write about the overall subject, how Zinn's coverage differed from Hakim's, and basically say what he liked or found specifically interesting.

 

but man, i'm not enjoying reading ahead of him - even tho it IS taking us more than 2 years to get through US history :confused1:

[HomeschoolMamaOfTwo]

My son (7) is taking a greek mythology class and it is funny how he is relating it to all religions. Since it is "known" that those were made up to explain things the people didn't understand, he is saying all of them are that way now. I can't really argue with him there.

[Guest inoubliable]

Anyone thinking on attending?

 

http://www.womeninsecularism.org

 

I'm close enough (75 miles away) to consider it.

 

Thoughts on a conference like this? For myself, I'm always angry when I hear how some women are treated in some religions and I'm always VERY angry when my reproductive rights are being threatened in this country because of a politician's religious beliefs. I'm interested in hearing what, if anything, this conference says to address these issues.

[Guest inoubliable]

Another interesting link.

 

http://action.americanhumanist.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=12299

 

Contact your rep to support House Resolution 41 aka Darwin Day.

[Izzy]

Anyone thinking on attending?

 

http://www.womeninsecularism.org

 

I'm close enough (75 miles away) to consider it.

 

Thoughts on a conference like this? For myself, I'm always angry when I hear how some women are treated in some religions and I'm always VERY angry when my reproductive rights are being threatened in this country because of a politician's religious beliefs. I'm interested in hearing what, if anything, this conference says to address these issues.

 

I would absolutely attend if I was closer. I joined a Center for Inquiry group in Austin. They have all sorts of meetups and can't wait to attend one!

[Jennifer3141]

KK, that conference looks GREAT!! But that's smack in the middle of early canning season for me. And if I do a conference this year, I hope to do a homeschooling one.

 

For math we do to Critical Thinking and for history, we do History Odyssey. Math is lacking with CT. DH plans on getting on that pretty soon. We're going to finish up this book and then take stock.

 

Science is somewhat easier for us. A telescope, a microscope, and David Attenborough DVDs every night. At some point, we're going to have to get more serious about that too.

[Izzy]

My son (7) is taking a greek mythology class and it is funny how he is relating it to all religions. Since it is "known" that those were made up to explain things the people didn't understand, he is saying all of them are that way now. I can't really argue with him there.

 

 

I still don't know how I'm going to approach the religions that stem from the bible. I do want my children to make their own choices but these religions are more like cults. It's hard to support your child joining a cult so I'm not sure how I'll approach it. I think I'll follow my instinct and say "some people believe" along with the bad side of what they believe. After all, most bible believers won't deny they think unbelievers go to hell and that homosexuals shouldn't have equal rights or that other religions are satanic. I'm just thinking aloud because I want my kids to choose but I want to be honest about the good and bad. Ugh, it's so much easier to choose 1 religion and indoctrinate them into it. :p

 

My 13 year old believes in god which is great because the god he believes in is a nice one. He doesn't know much about the bible so it hasn't occurred to him that god could be not nice. I wish I could have grown up like that. :D

[Izzy]

We are using K12's Human Odyssey for history. It's for 7th grade but I'm reading it aloud and modifying writing assignments for ds9. I picked up a used copy from Amazon and do not go through K12 for any of the extra material. I have written review questions and outlines, project ideas, etc. for each chapter (well, through chapter 35 so far).

 

I really like this curriculum so far. I like the text with lots of pictures, etc. It's engaging. And some chapters have literature selections as an extra. I teach all religions from a mythological point of view. This year we're in ancients so I'm really emphasizing OT and classic Greek/Roman/Norse/Hindu mythology. I realized that I over corrected when it came to Old Testament stories and didn't teach them at all. I think it's important that my boys know the big stories because they are referenced not only in literature but also popular culture: Moses, burning bushes (recently in a Supernatural episode!), Noah, the plagues of Egypt, etc.

 

I supplement with my own literature selections roughly following the time periods, when possible. I also use Khan Academy to teach art history for that time period. We aren't a project-y family. My boys aren't huge fans of crafts. And, if I'm honest with myself, I can't stand the mess. There I said it. I try to be "that" mom, but find I'm clenching my teeth and smiling the entire time. As my boys have gotten older, I'm relieved by less projects and mess.

 

Anyone interested in using K12's HO, let me know and I will send you my little study guide. There are typos. It's not perfect as it was intended to be used just for my little family and my friend who was using it as well, but I'd be happy to share. PM me.

 

 

It looks like k-12's HO gets a lot of good reviews. I'm going to look into what grade K-12 uses it in. I wouldn't mind have ds13 use it through K12.

[Izzy]

Does anyone identify as secular humanist?

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=what&section=main

 

[Guest inoubliable]

Does anyone identify as secular humanist?

http://www.secularhu...at&section=main

 

 

Yes. We use that to describe ourselves much more than "atheist".

[Izzy]

 

 

Yes. We use that to describe ourselves much more than "atheist".

 

 

I don't actually use Athiest because I'm not sure there isn't a god, just sure I don't know and I don't feel the need to know. There is a Secular Humanist magazine I'd like to subscribe too.The articles would be good topics to discuss with ds13.

[BrookValley.]

Anyone thinking on attending?

 

http://www.womeninsecularism.org

 

I'm close enough (75 miles away) to consider it.

 

Thoughts on a conference like this? For myself, I'm always angry when I hear how some women are treated in some religions and I'm always VERY angry when my reproductive rights are being threatened in this country because of a politician's religious beliefs. I'm interested in hearing what, if anything, this conference says to address these issues.

 

 

It looks interesting, and it's in my neck of the woods...but I'll have an approximately 4-week old infant at that time.

[jar7709]

I don't usually use the term atheist because some people think that's a religion. I tell people I'm not religious. That ends the conversation about religion much more quickly.

 

 

 

Here, depending on who you're talking to, that sometimes makes the conversation longer because they want to know what flavor of non-religious. Nobody seems to know what a secular humanist is around here so that makes the conversation longer, too. I have learned to couch my answer to match whoever it is I'm talking to. Random strangers or homeschoolers get "non-religious". JWs that come to the door get "athiest". ;)

[Guest inoubliable]

I wish I lived in a place where religion wasn't asked about so much. I had no idea that there were places where religion wasn't asked about - at least not in this country. My Canadian friends say that it's hardly ever brought up there and that certainly one wouldn't ask a new acquaintance about their religion or which church they go to. My friends in South America say the same.

[Guest inoubliable]

 

Yeah it rarely comes up here. We considered moving to NC at one point and one of the reasons we didn't is because of what we heard from others we knew that moved from this area to there. They said one of the first questions anyone asked them was what church they go to. I have never in my life been asked that here.

 

Hmm. Maybe it's a Southern thing? I'm in Virginia and I've lived here pretty much my entire life. I've definitely noticed it here. When I went to college in Utah, most everyone assumed I was Mormon and was surprised when it ever did come up that I wasn't (and then those people never talked to me again). When we lived in upstate NY for about 6 months, we were asked if we wanted invitations to such-and-such church but we weren't asked outright which religion we practiced.

[Guest inoubliable]

Recommendations for books by Zinn?

[Guest inoubliable]

Thank you! Adding to my Amazon cart.

[dbmamaz]

My son is reading the adult version of People's History. this is our first time through US history, so I'm using it as a supplement to Hakim to extend history for my older son. He DOES need the practice writing. When i got him out of public school after 7th grade he could not even write a cohesive paragraph.

 

I do appreciate the details he includes that arent in other books, it just seems to me like little more than a list of facts - more reminiscent of what I didnt like about history. and . .. i just cant bring myself to 'discuss' this stuff. Partly because i'm just burnt out and need less conversation time, and partly because he has trouble thinking abstractly. Idk, i do generally hate history but i like Hakim .. i dont like Zinn's writing but i value the information. and we arent reading the young people's version.

[La Texican]

 

 

No, I haven't seen those. Right now I'm kind of in freak out mode because we are only halfway through 1A. I know he can do math the regular way but he's slow going with Singapore. Thanks, I'll look at the videos. :)

 

I actually have Math Mammoth and use it for extra practice but I need something more laid out for me. I do better with some sort of lesson plans.

 

 

I suggest looking on youtube + singapore 1a. and letting your kid watch a few videos. Sometimes seeing someone else say it gives a kid that one fresh perspective. Bonus: looking through those results I saw one video with Satori Smiles in Singapore 1a You Tube. What a pretty girl. I know I've seen that blogger name here on the wtm before.

[Audrey]

I wish I lived in a place where religion wasn't asked about so much. I had no idea that there were places where religion wasn't asked about - at least not in this country. My Canadian friends say that it's hardly ever brought up there and that certainly one wouldn't ask a new acquaintance about their religion or which church they go to. My friends in South America say the same.

 

 

 

This is true. No one ever asks unless they know you pretty well and you are having an intimate conversation where beliefs might arise. In a business situation it is one of those strictly verbotten unwritten rules. People also do not ask about your familial status or politics either.

 

What is interesting is that Canadians rank among the very highest nations in interpersonal skills. It really is a very different culture in the workplace, that is for sure. On the one hand, everything is very friendly, but to a Canadian, "friendly" doesn't mean "now I've got to find out everything about you." It means, "I will respect you as you present yourself to me." So, unless you volunteer personal information, they just won't pry, but they expect that you won't pry either. Usually, it isn't a problem because Canadians love to talk. So, they'll tell you all kinds of personal stuff -- just not usually things like religion, politics (no, never!) or intimate family things unless, as I said, you know them very, very well and something of that nature arises in the conversation. Although, I do think you almost have to be sleeping with the Canadian to get him to discuss politics with you, and even then, I'm not so sure. :laugh:

[dbmamaz]

thats funny, maybe thats why i get along so well w my canadian husband - i dont ask a lot of questions, I volunteer info about myself in the hopes that that will make you feel comfortable to do the same. of course, he's french-speaking . . . he keeps saying they have their own culture . . .

[Lady Florida.]

Does anyone identify as secular humanist?

 

 

I don't usually use the term atheist because some people think that's a religion. I tell people I'm not religious. That ends the conversation about religion much more quickly.

 

I consider myself a secular humanist. I usually just tell people I'm not religious, but when I want to end any attempts at religious discussion (usually meant to invite me to their church) I use the term atheist. It's a stronger word, and works best around here at ending any conversations about religion.

 

Catholics in my experience aren't pushy about religion.

 

Most Catholic homeschoolers in my area either join a Catholic hs group or an inclusive (or even secular) one. Catholics are not "Christian enough" for the Christian homeschool groups here.

[Jennifer3141]

I usually just say I'm an atheist because it's shuts people down pretty fast. No, I don't need to hear your, "good news" and everytime you ask me that i think you're going to bust out with, "I'm pregnant!" or "I got a new job!"

 

If you want to get detailed about it, I'm pretty sure there is no god. But if there is a god, it's a freaking WOMAN. So there's my bit o'paganism.

 

I will say that the only time I've ever felt "something," I was standing in circle during a very feminist pagan ritual. I don't know what that was but if it was Goddess, I have the distinct feeling she isn't going to be annoyed with me for not worshipping her all my life. I like to think She might be waiting for me at the gate, swat my behind on the way in and chuckle, "Skeptic!" under Her breath.

 

Don't ask me to reconcile that with my love for tarot and other hoo-hah stuff. :laugh:

[4kidlets4me]

I wish I lived in a place where religion wasn't asked about so much. I had no idea that there were places where religion wasn't asked about - at least not in this country. My Canadian friends say that it's hardly ever brought up there and that certainly one wouldn't ask a new acquaintance about their religion or which church they go to. My friends in South America say the same.

 

 

 

This is the only place I've lived that it has ever come up. But this is the only place that I've been a homeschooler. Every homeschooler I've met here homeschools for religious reasons mainly. So that may be why it comes up so much here. It could be just this county though it's rural which tends to lean religious anyway. I just think it's funny that this is one of the most liberal states-we just legalized same sex marriage and marijuana-yet I'm surrounded by religious people!

[Rosie_0801]

 

Don't ask me to reconcile that with my love for tarot and other hoo-hah stuff. :laugh:

 

 

Obviously that is merely tapping into your subconscious, whom you know by long acquaintance to be a very reliable source. ;)

[Roadrunner]

 

 

Same here except my in-law lives in another country. She has made comments over the years. However, her reasoning is a bit strange. She doesn't care that we aren't religious, but she is disappointed that we are not a part of the culture of Catholicism. She has outright said we lack culture because we don't go to church. I mean...who cares if we like it or believe it or what not...but yeah we lack culture. **whatever** LOL

 

See this isn't strange to me :) I am not religious, but I periodically light candles when I visit my ancestral Orthodox Church as a respect to what it meant in preserving our cultural and linguistic identity.

[HelenNotOfTroy]

When I was young (18ish) I would sometimes tell people I was an atheist. It got about the same response I would have gotten had I said Satanist.

[Izzy]

I usually just say I'm an atheist because it's shuts people down pretty fast. No, I don't need to hear your, "good news" and everytime you ask me that i think you're going to bust out with, "I'm pregnant!" or "I got a new job!"

 

If you want to get detailed about it, I'm pretty sure there is no god. But if there is a god, it's a freaking WOMAN. So there's my bit o'paganism.

 

I will say that the only time I've ever felt "something," I was standing in circle during a very feminist pagan ritual. I don't know what that was but if it was Goddess, I have the distinct feeling she isn't going to be annoyed with me for not worshipping her all my life. I like to think She might be waiting for me at the gate, swat my behind on the way in and chuckle, "Skeptic!" under Her breath.

 

Don't ask me to reconcile that with my love for tarot and other hoo-hah stuff. :laugh:

 

 

See, I can't really say I'm Athiest because I believe there's most likely a higher power that we don't know. I guess that makes me Agnostic but saying you're Agnostic opens up too much discussion because it sounds like you're looking for god which I'm not. I can see how Secular Humanist could really open up a can of worms.

 

DS13 starts spring tackle football in March and it's a very Christian organization. I'm completely fine with that and grateful they are open to all faiths and non faith. That's rare around here. But there will be lots of questions and god talk and I'm thinking through what I will say. I'm thinking not religious is perfect.

 

lol at your comment about tarot cards. I'm really interested in all things psychic and magic. I always have been but was told they were from the debil. :D

[Izzy]

 

 

 

This is true. No one ever asks unless they know you pretty well and you are having an intimate conversation where beliefs might arise. In a business situation it is one of those strictly verbotten unwritten rules. People also do not ask about your familial status or politics either.

 

What is interesting is that Canadians rank among the very highest nations in interpersonal skills. It really is a very different culture in the workplace, that is for sure. On the one hand, everything is very friendly, but to a Canadian, "friendly" doesn't mean "now I've got to find out everything about you." It means, "I will respect you as you present yourself to me." So, unless you volunteer personal information, they just won't pry, but they expect that you won't pry either. Usually, it isn't a problem because Canadians love to talk. So, they'll tell you all kinds of personal stuff -- just not usually things like religion, politics (no, never!) or intimate family things unless, as I said, you know them very, very well and something of that nature arises in the conversation. Although, I do think you almost have to be sleeping with the Canadian to get him to discuss politics with you, and even then, I'm not so sure. :laugh:

 

 

I've heard from friends in Canada and Australia that religion is very different. I wonder if it's because of America's tendency to overdo things? Does religion show up in politics in Canada? That's a big problem here.

[Laura Corin]

I've heard from friends in Canada and Australia that religion is very different. I wonder if it's because of America's tendency to overdo things? Does religion show up in politics in Canada? That's a big problem here.

 

Religion barely shows up in UK politics. When Tony Blair - protestant later converted RC - was in power, his press secretary famously parried questions about religion with the phrase 'We don't do God.' The casual calling on a god that US politicians go in for would be considered.... overly intimate? Religion in the UK is normally a private matter, and it seems pushy when politicians bring it up.

 

Laura

[Jennifer3141]

See, I can't really say I'm Athiest because I believe there's most likely a higher power that we don't know. I guess that makes me Agnostic but saying you're Agnostic opens up too much discussion because it sounds like you're looking for god which I'm not. I can see how Secular Humanist could really open up a can of worms.

 

DS13 starts spring tackle football in March and it's a very Christian organization. I'm completely fine with that and grateful they are open to all faiths and non faith. That's rare around here. But there will be lots of questions and god talk and I'm thinking through what I will say. I'm thinking not religious is perfect.

 

lol at your comment about tarot cards. I'm really interested in all things psychic and magic. I always have been but was told they were from the debil. :D

 

 

 

And I can't say I'm agnostic because I think if there was some incredible all knowing entity, that we'd have some concrete evidence of it by now. :D

What's he waiting for? Westboro Baptist hasn't brought him out of the closet for some sort of retraction by now???

 

I agree with you about the agnostic label though - that can open up too many, "Oh! I have the faith you're looking for!" discussions. I love those discussions. You have to love talking to someone who truly believes THEY found all your answers for you with their super duper delicious god.

 

My parents tried to get my son a week ago. My son's reply was, "Grandad, I don't believe in Santa. Why would I believe in your god?"

Nothing quite like being shut down by a 7 year old...

[delaney]

My mother has a really tough time with me saying I just don't believe in Jesus or God. I was raised Episcopal. This Christmas my mother was YELLING to me in the kitchen to come say grace before dinner. :glare: After several calls I just yelled back, "I don't believe in god so why would I thank him?"

Why can't people wrap their heads around it?

[jar7709]

My mother has a really tough time with me saying I just don't believe in Jesus or God. I was raised Episcopal. This Christmas my mother was YELLING to me in the kitchen to come say grace before dinner. :glare: After several calls I just yelled back, "I don't believe in god so why would I thank him?"

Why can't people wrap their heads around it?

 

 

Haha. I have been there but decided to take a different tack. My gratitude is to other members of our human race, not to invisible sky daddy, so when all the folks are saying grace and going around the table and saying why they are thankful to "him", when it is my turn I thank the farmers who grew the food and the truck drivers who delivered it and the employers who pay us well enough to buy such a lovely meal and my loving family who cooked it and are sharing the table with me. Really gave the religious members of my family pause, I think. Just because I'm a non-believer doesn't mean I'm ungrateful.

[Lady Florida.]

And I can't say I'm agnostic because I think if there was some incredible all knowing entity, that we'd have some concrete evidence of it by now. :D What's he waiting for?

 

Have you all seen the Dawkins Scale? Going by the scale, I am a de facto atheist. Even though my beliefs align with Secular Humanism, I am a strong atheist. None of us can know for certain if there are any gods. We just have to go by what we know and what is probable.

[LaxMom]

 

 

Have you all seen the Dawkins Scale? Going by the scale, I am a de facto atheist. Even though my beliefs align with Secular Humanism, I am a strong atheist. None of us can know for certain if there are any gods. We just have to go by what we know and what is probable.

 

See, that just supports my agnostic tendency, though "equiprobable" is a problematic term for me since I'm not sure how one would compile a probability statistic. And I'm unclear as to whether this would include a superior power that is not personified... So the very question of how to approach the question falls into the "unquantifiable, can't go forward" box for me.

 

I am impartial. The existence or non-existence doesn't factor into my ethics, conduct or thought - other than when it is a topic of discussion, obviously - at all.

[FLDebbie]

Religion barely shows up in UK politics. When Tony Blair - protestant later converted RC - was in power, his press secretary famously parried questions about religion with the phrase 'We don't do God.' The casual calling on a god that US politicians go in for would be considered.... overly intimate? Religion in the UK is normally a private matter, and it seems pushy when politicians bring it up.

 

Laura

 

 

Wow! I really wish our politicians here could do the same.

[Jennifer3141]

 

Wow! I really wish our politicians here could do the same.

 

Amen. :D

[dbmamaz]

I am impartial. The existence or non-existence doesn't factor into my ethics, conduct or thought - other than when it is a topic of discussion, obviously - at all.

My husband has never really come clean about what he believes exactly about the world, but he did point out to me that there is a variety of non-belief which holds that it is not knowable whether or not their is a deity, and another which holds that it makes no difference if there is or isnt. When i was young I kinda wondered, in my college years I experienced some vague spiritual feelings, which i enjoyed, and i enjoyed pairing them with some vague explanations, but i never saw them as more than pleasant mythology and imagery - almost like a meditation image. but no, in the end, it really does not affect my life at all. its not important to me. i waste very little energy on it. I do go to UU church sometimes, just for the philisophical stimulation, the music, the friendship.

 

saw a quote on fb yesterday - a guy said that when he tells people he doesnt believe in god, they ask him what keeps him from raping and murdering. He said that he rapes and murders exactly as much as he wants to - which is not at all.

 

Its weird that people think belief in a diety is the only thing that keeps them from doing awful things, and then when believers DO awful things, they just say, oh, we are humans and we arent perfect but god will forgive us. Um, but that whole belief thing didnt STOP you from doing anything bad, then, it just makes you feel better about it?