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Guest inoubliable

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Where would you start in self educating yourself in science? I've been reading a few books on why evolution is correct but I'd like an actual course on it. :)

 

 

Have you read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne. That really covers all the major pieces of evidence for evolution. Another book that I enjoyed very very much was Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin. It clarified some of the things I had read in Why Evolution is True. I found it fascinating.

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Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

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Have you read Why Evolution is True by Jerry Coyne. That really covers all the major pieces of evidence for evolution. Another book that I enjoyed very very much was Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin. It clarified some of the things I had read in Why Evolution is True. I found it fascinating.

 

Was just going to suggest his blog. :)

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lailasmum

lailasmum

Posted
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Coming in late with another plug for the Magic of Reality. DS often falls asleep listening to the audiobook, which is beautifully read.

 

And the app/ebook is awesome! I don't often pay for apps, but that was worth every penny.

 

I might get the audiobook, I have some audible credits to use up.

 

Something else we enjoyed was the Wonders of Life series that just started last night on the BBC. Its presented by Prof. Brian Cox and looks at life from a physics/chemistry point of view. The DVD is out in March.

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EmilyK

EmilyK

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I'm not sure if I exactly belong here -- I guess I'd describe myself as an extremely non-literal Christian / vipassana Buddhist, who has zero desire to affiliate with a church socially.

 

But I struggle with guilt over not exposing my children to the aspects of church I enjoyed growing up -- the history and culture (we were liberal Episcopalians, and I went to a Catholic school run by a liberal order of nuns, many of whom I adored), the ability to know how to function in a church service (I realized at my dad's funeral that they had no clue about much of it). My dad had hoped I would be an Episcopal priest! I have/had a close relationship with my folks, though, and told them I wasn't going to go to church and they could take my sons if they wished, and they didn't really want to since it was their social time.

 

But here's my real problem, more than the guilt, and this is kind of embarrassing, so be gentle on me -- I'm increasingly intolerant of accomodating other people's religious practice. I basically want to live in a secular society, where people have beliefs but pretty much keep them to themselves when they aren't at their place of worship. I was brought up that way culturally (don't discuss religion), and it has gotten worse with my and my husband's increasing lack of religiousness. Any thoughts on that problem/issue?

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albeto

albeto

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But I struggle with guilt over not exposing my children to the aspects of church I enjoyed growing up -- the history and culture (we were liberal Episcopalians, and I went to a Catholic school run by a liberal order of nuns, many of whom I adored), the ability to know how to function in a church service (I realized at my dad's funeral that they had no clue about much of it). My dad had hoped I would be an Episcopal priest! I have/had a close relationship with my folks, though, and told them I wasn't going to go to church and they could take my sons if they wished, and they didn't really want to since it was their social time.

 

Do you struggle with subtly indoctrinating them in a belief system that tells them the "good news" in christ/god/spirituality is available only after the "bad news" that they are somehow incomplete, misguided, and ultimately in need of something "else" in the first place? That's what churches do, they reinforce the idea that the christian claim (you are somehow incomplete with out god-however you identify him/it). By their privileged place in society (it is social taboo to challenge religious beliefs and behavior), they lend credibility to an idea that should be accepted by virtue of the fact it has always been accepted.

 

History and culture can be found outside your front door, inside it, too. Functioning in a church service is only necessary when functioning in a church service. Outside that environment, it's a useless skill. Having close relationships is entirely possible without superstitious beliefs.

 

But here's my real problem, more than the guilt,

 

Guilty for what? Not passing on the belief to your kids? Why not let them mature naturally and then decide when they're older if they believe the claims of any particular religion, after they have a foundation of knowledge, information, and critical thinking skills? Why not avoid burdening them with the pressure to "just believe"?

 

and this is kind of embarrassing, so be gentle on me -- I'm increasingly intolerant of accomodating other people's religious practice.

 

Me too. In fact, I find myself feeling downright angry at the idea that I *should* be accommodating to those practices that suppress and oppress others, and religion does that by its nature. I'm expected to not only keep my mouth shut, but to help subsidize this garbage with my taxes, thus promoting the idea for people like you to think it has value.

 

I basically want to live in a secular society, where people have beliefs but pretty much keep them to themselves when they aren't at their place of worship. I was brought up that way culturally (don't discuss religion), and it has gotten worse with my and my husband's increasing lack of religiousness. Any thoughts on that problem/issue?

 

I am right there with you. I think as uncomfortable as it makes theists feel, speaking out about the value of reasonable and rational thinking is helpful. Any time someone can look at their beliefs critically and examine them for the merits of their claims, not how they make them feel emotionally, we move closer to a secular society where religious and other superstitious beliefs are not imposed on public policy. That's beneficial for all of us.

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EmilyK

EmilyK

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Thanks. To clarify what I mean about history and culture, two things. The first is that I mean by history and culture that I know the bible stories backwards and forwards, and it is one of those cultural underpinnings, like Shakespeare. Also the church calendar and festivals. I was the star of my college art history classes since I knew all that stuff, and no one else did (in the 1980s).

 

Second, I didn't grow up in a church situation that required much suspension of disbelief. Neither of my parents, nor I, have ever believed in things like the virgin birth or the literal resurrection. I guess we'd say they are deeply meaningful mythology, but not literally true in the videocamera sense. So I never felt that I had to believe Jesus was the son of God (any more than any one is) to go to heaven, or stuff like that. When I was more into religion, I enjoyed going to hear speakers like Marcus Borg and going to taize services. I just don't feel drawn that way now -- and I strongly have no desire to be a regular churchgoer -- purely because it is such a social obligation scene, and not one that resonates for me. I'm still into spiritual things, but more like meditating in an empty cathedral or historic place of worship, than having someone notice that I didn't show up last Sunday for service. UGH!

 

Anyway, that's just to explain where I'm coming from. I appreciate the support on not feeling like a monster because I silently rue having to accomodate others' religious practices. I still do feel uncomfortable with my feelings.

 

Here's part of my issue with it. As long as it doesn't hurt any one else, I don't care what other people do privately at all. But with tween and teen boys, I spend a lot of time talking about how the way we dress, behave, eat at other people's houses, are all forms of communication. Being a good guest is eating what it served to you, and making appreciative comments. How we dress ourselves and have our hair is a form of communication, and we can't just say "well, that isn't what I meant by it", we have to think about what the likely effect is on others. If grandma would be offended by swear words, we don't say them. If we are going to an event that they are supposed to dress up, they do. I guess somehow all those discussions are in conflict with what I feel is happening in US society, where people are supposed to have a total bye if it is part of religion.

 

One last thing (sorry for the length) -- I wondered last night as I caught up on episodes of Wallender (the Kenneth Branagh version) whether the US is different than other countries on this. In the show (set in Sweden but acted by UK actors), there was a matter of fact discussion about how "off" this evangelical Christian church was. Some members turned into a cult, but even before that, the pastor had gone to prison for hate crimes because he spoke against gay rights, and there was a general sense that people who belong to an evangelical church with views against gays and abortion are more or less nutters. I couldn't imagine that in a US show.

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dbmamaz

dbmamaz

Posted
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just in case you arent aware, Unitarian Universalist churches are generally free of any specific religion. there are some that lean more towards christianity and some that lean more towards earth-centered practice, but mostly they are a place to come together, sing hymns, have a coffee hour, listen to a sermon and . . at most of them . . never hear the word god uttered. I grew up jewish but I like the sense of community i get at the UU church. i sing in the choir, even.

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EmilyK

EmilyK

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Thanks. If I were going to attend, that's where I'd go. I just don't want to take on the social obligation -- we already belong to too many groups, don't keep up with friends as often as I should, etc. So my negative feeling on attending even UU is that I've experienced a lot of "newcomer" situations, and any church tries to pull you into the social life of the church, and can't understand that it may not be something you are wanting. So I end up feeling I'm letting another group of people down when I attend sporadically and don't want to get to know people better.

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dbmamaz

dbmamaz

Posted
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yeah, i get that - i feel a lot of guilt for not doing more for the church . . . and not going to more martial art school events . . . and not taking the kids to more homeschool social thing and classes and . . . um. . .i'm an introvert!

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Rosie_0801

Rosie_0801

Posted
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Where would you start in self educating yourself in science? I've been reading a few books on why evolution is correct but I'd like an actual course on it. :)

 

https://class.coursera.org/geneticsevolution-002/class

(Hopefully that link works, but if it doesn't, Genetics and Evolution should be near the top of the Coursera class list.)

A lot of it is based on Jerry Coyne's 'Why Evolution is True' and includes an interview with him. I believe you can enrol in a course that has already started, so you needn't wait.

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Jennifer3141

Jennifer3141

Posted
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I brought my cat with no problem. Just had to have proof of recent vaccinations.

 

 

 

I have ducks and rabbits in addition to cats and dogs. The birds would present a problem. :(

 

Rosie, Australia has 6 seasons? Are you counting the drowning season???

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Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

Posted
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I have ducks and rabbits in addition to cats and dogs. The birds would present a problem. :(

 

Rosie, Australia has 6 seasons? Are you counting the drowning season???

 

 

Autumn, Winter, Spring, Drowning, Summer, SuperHOT?

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Rosie_0801

Rosie_0801

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Rosie, Australia has 6 seasons? Are you counting the drowning season???

 

 

I was reading up Aboriginal seasons last year. Here's a pic for Melbourne, the capital city, which seems to be pretty well spot on for where I am now too, further inland. http://home.vicnet.net.au/~herring/seasons.htm For reasons of habit, ignorance or lack of imagination, we still teach kinder kids the northern hemisphere seasons, then whinge on about how we're still freezing our bottoms off on the first of Spring. Except me, because I'm an educational anarchist. :p But that got me interested and I acquired a book showing more Aboriginal calendars from around the place, and it seems, although they vary a bit, most of the country has 6 seasons. Autumn, which was a Northern Hemisphere import sort of fits into early winter. Some days are autumn, others are early winterish. In the Top End, they talk of the Wet and Dry seasons, but the aboriginal calendars up there still show six. It's been very cool comparing the more accurate Aboriginal calendar with the changes I notice around me. I haven't lived anywhere long enough to become familiar enough with the seasons to notice an aberration since I was a kid. And back then we had a huge deciduous tree over the house so while the dates were out, the four seasons was more accurate than it is up here in the bush. Ah, here's another link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_Australian_seasons

 

 

Drowning season depends where in the country you live. At this time of year, the top is flooding and the south is on fire. In winter, it's the south flooding. Fun stuff.

and all that. ;)

 

Yeah, that was a wordy answer when a flippant remark might have done. :p But really this stuff is too cool!!

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Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

Posted
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I was reading up Aboriginal seasons last year. Here's a pic for Melbourne, the capital city, which seems to be pretty well spot on for where I am now too, further inland. http://home.vicnet.n...ing/seasons.htm For reasons of habit, ignorance or lack of imagination, we still teach kinder kids the northern hemisphere seasons, then whinge on about how we're still freezing our bottoms off on the first of Spring. Except me, because I'm an educational anarchist. :p But that got me interested and I acquired a book showing more Aboriginal calendars from around the place, and it seems, although they vary a bit, most of the country has 6 seasons. Autumn, which was a Northern Hemisphere import sort of fits into early winter. Some days are autumn, others are early winterish. In the Top End, they talk of the Wet and Dry seasons, but the aboriginal calendars up there still show six. It's been very cool comparing the more accurate Aboriginal calendar with the changes I notice around me. I haven't lived anywhere long enough to become familiar enough with the seasons to notice an aberration since I was a kid. And back then we had a huge deciduous tree over the house so while the dates were out, the four seasons was more accurate than it is up here in the bush. Ah, here's another link: http://en.wikipedia....tralian_seasons

 

 

Drowning season depends where in the country you live. At this time of year, the top is flooding and the south is on fire. In winter, it's the south flooding. Fun stuff.

and all that. ;)

 

Yeah, that was a wordy answer when a flippant remark might have done. :p But really this stuff is too cool!!

 

 

Wow that is really cool stuff! Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. Nice links, too!

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Jennifer3141

Jennifer3141

Posted
Posted

Thank you, Rosie!! That's really interesting.

 

I have three good friends on the Gold Coast and their experiences either crack me up or scare the wits out of me. One of my friends is a bartender and she had me giggling when she texted that she had a full bar because there was a tornado siting in her neighborhood. Apparently, all the macho men went out to go to the bar to prove how nonchalent and tough they are. So, tornado sirens and flooding and you all head to the bar?!?!

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delaney

delaney

Posted
Posted

 

https://class.course...ution-002/class

(Hopefully that link works, but if it doesn't, Genetics and Evolution should be near the top of the Coursera class list.)

A lot of it is based on Jerry Coyne's 'Why Evolution is True' and includes an interview with him. I believe you can enrol in a course that has already started, so you needn't wait.

 

For these courses do you have to do the tests and such? I would just like to follow along

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Rosie_0801

Rosie_0801

Posted
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For these courses do you have to do the tests and such? I would just like to follow along

 

I only watch the vids. :)

 

 

I have three good friends on the Gold Coast and their experiences either crack me up or scare the wits out of me. One of my friends is a bartender and she had me giggling when she texted that she had a full bar because there was a tornado siting in her neighborhood. Apparently, all the macho men went out to go to the bar to prove how nonchalent and tough they are. So, tornado sirens and flooding and you all head to the bar?!?!

 

Bloody Aussies. *shakes head*

 

Bloody Queenslanders! The rest of us don't go to the pub until after we know we haven't died. *shakes head again*

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Izzy

Izzy

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Thanks. If I were going to attend, that's where I'd go. I just don't want to take on the social obligation -- we already belong to too many groups, don't keep up with friends as often as I should, etc. So my negative feeling on attending even UU is that I've experienced a lot of "newcomer" situations, and any church tries to pull you into the social life of the church, and can't understand that it may not be something you are wanting. So I end up feeling I'm letting another group of people down when I attend sporadically and don't want to get to know people better.

 

I can't multiquote from my phone so I'm going to do my best to respond from memory. :D It sounds like you had a good experience with an open church while growing up. If all churches were this tolerant then we'd have less angry athiests. I don't have a problem with religion but do have a problem with religion that is fear based and intolerant of groups of people. Those two issues seem to be why some religions force their business on to everyone else. I wouldn't feel guilty for finding yourself intolerant to certain religions as I think that's a healthy sign that your brain is working. Just look at the churches that were demanding racial segregation based on the bible. Those are the same people trying to deny equal rights to homosexuals and placing women in submissive roles. They just don't SEE the similarities but 50 years from now I'm sure they'll get it. My point is if we just give these people a religious pass then nothing will change and we'll see more and more fundamentalism because to question them is to question their sacred religion.

 

And yes, I think American religion looks A LOT different than it does in some countries. What would be called a hate group somewhere else is called religion here. Go figure.

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chiguirre

chiguirre

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Where would you start in self educating yourself in science? I've been reading a few books on why evolution is correct but I'd like an actual course on it. :)

 

I'd highly recommend Natalie Angier's The Canon as a basic introduction to many branches of science. It was a fascinating read and I learned a lot, even though I do follow science reporting in general interest magazines.

 

http://www.natalieangier.com/main.php

 

You might also like Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. It's Bill Bryson, 'nuff said.

 

http://www.amazon.com/A-Short-History-Nearly-Everything/dp/0767908171

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Izzy

Izzy

Posted
Posted

 

 

https://class.coursera.org/geneticsevolution-002/class

(Hopefully that link works, but if it doesn't, Genetics and Evolution should be near the top of the Coursera class list.)

A lot of it is based on Jerry Coyne's 'Why Evolution is True' and includes an interview with him. I believe you can enrol in a course that has already started, so you needn't wait.

 

Thanks for the link! I was able to join the class in week 4. :D The class I had found didn't have a date set yet.

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Izzy

Izzy

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Every time I visit the chat board I remember why I stay away from there in the first place. Is there such a thing as intelligence splitting in evolution? Like one section of a species splits into complete ignorance and the other section evolves their kindness and reason?

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mommymonster

mommymonster

Posted
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I'm a newbie to this thread, so let me know if there is a better place to post this question.

 

I'm a happy atheist. Don't believe in a god, and it is all good. In any case, we are new to homeschooling and would love to find a coop of some sort to socialize with (nothing hugely expensive, if possible). I have met/discovered four coops in our area, which sounds promising, but they all require that you sign a religious oath to participate (which reaffirms their various religious beliefs). How does one find the secular coops? Or at least the ones that don't require that you sign a oath/pledge?

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jar7709

jar7709

Posted
Posted

I'm a newbie to this thread, so let me know if there is a better place to post this question.

 

I'm a happy atheist. Don't believe in a god, and it is all good. In any case, we are new to homeschooling and would love to find a coop of some sort to socialize with (nothing hugely expensive, if possible). I have met/discovered four coops in our area, which sounds promising, but they all require that you sign a religious oath to participate (which reaffirms their various religious beliefs). How does one find the secular coops? Or at least the ones that don't require that you sign a oath/pledge?

 

 

They can be hard to find. I see you are in the PacNW; me too and if you are near me, pm me and I can maybe help. :) If not, expand your search and try searching FB, meetup.com, and yahoo groups, if you haven't already. In my experience there are very few official secular "co-ops" but there are more informal secular meetup groups that are a good place to start.

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Jennifer3141

Jennifer3141

Posted
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its not easy! the secularhomeschool website has a list, i think, of state organizations? sometimes you have to start one. esp if you are in the south or a rural area, its really hard

 

 

Yes to this. And secular groups tend to be more word of mouth than advertised, I've found.

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LucyStoner

LucyStoner

Posted
Posted

I'm a newbie to this thread, so let me know if there is a better place to post this question.

 

I'm a happy atheist. Don't believe in a god, and it is all good. In any case, we are new to homeschooling and would love to find a coop of some sort to socialize with (nothing hugely expensive, if possible). I have met/discovered four coops in our area, which sounds promising, but they all require that you sign a religious oath to participate (which reaffirms their various religious beliefs). How does one find the secular coops? Or at least the ones that don't require that you sign a oath/pledge?

 

In Seattle, there are great homeschoolers who structure would be co-op efforts in to teaching and attending numerous homeschool classes (art, drama, some academics and a ton more electives.). These are at 2 or 3 of the local community centers and you can find them on the Parks and Recs page for Seattle. Search homeschooling. We have not done it because no times and days meshed up but I hear a lot of good things.

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Spryte

Spryte

Posted
Posted

I'm a newbie to this thread, so let me know if there is a better place to post this question.

 

I'm a happy atheist. Don't believe in a god, and it is all good. In any case, we are new to homeschooling and would love to find a coop of some sort to socialize with (nothing hugely expensive, if possible). I have met/discovered four coops in our area, which sounds promising, but they all require that you sign a religious oath to participate (which reaffirms their various religious beliefs). How does one find the secular coops? Or at least the ones that don't require that you sign a oath/pledge?

 

I am having the same problem in our area. All the groups we can find seem to require signing a statement of faith. Not happening. Will be watching to see if you get any answers applicable to our little backwoods VA town.

 

 

 

 

(Okay, I admit it, I just needed to come to this thread for a breath of sanity. Viewing another thread had me getting all worked up. Not naming threads here, just grateful that this one is still going strong!)

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Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

Posted
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Will be watching to see if you get any answers applicable to our little backwoods VA town.

 

 

 

 

(Okay, I admit it, I just needed to come to this thread for a breath of sanity. Viewing another thread had me getting all worked up. Not naming threads here, just grateful that this one is still going strong!)

 

Whaaaat? I thought we WERE the group in VA. :laugh:

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Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

Posted
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I started my own co-op :)

 

Not everyone is an atheist, but all who attend are truly inclusive. When I advertised it I made it clear that those of all or no religion were welcome and that pretty much self selected the group.

 

This is highly interesting to me. Any links to good info on starting your own coop? Want to give me some info, pointers, advice? Keep me off the BSA thread?

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Guest inoubliable

Guest inoubliable

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I'm in VA! woot! anyone coming to the conference? I havent registered yet but i havent missed one since right before i started homeschooling, so that would make this my 5th? idk

 

 

Hmm. I hadn't really thought about it. Maybe I should. Who else in in VA? Would be great to "meet up with the gals"!

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delaney

delaney

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I am having the same problem in our area. All the groups we can find seem to require signing a statement of faith. Not happening. Will be watching to see if you get any answers applicable to our little backwoods VA town.

 

 

 

 

(Okay, I admit it, I just needed to come to this thread for a breath of sanity. Viewing another thread had me getting all worked up. Not naming threads here, just grateful that this one is still going strong!)

I live in a little VA town and here is a great story to affirm my beliefs...or lack there of.

My parents' church is in upheaval. It has come to light that the interim priest has "forced" the organist into retirement because he is being pressured by old money. My mother is refusing communion by this priest and he refused to even bless her at Christmas because she crossed her arms and wouldn't "look him in the eyes". No joke. Then they found out that the priest they had(who was a progressive thinker) left because of death threats that were coming in the middle of the night! He even showed his wife how to fire his pistol!(He is ex military). It was the "old Money" -people who wanted to freeze time. They had approached him about not changing certain things and he refused to comply. Can you believe this junk happening all in the name of "god". I said to my mom, "And you still believe in organized religion because......?"

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Ipsey

Ipsey

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I'm keeping busy by researching the possibility of a religious gene. I'm convinced there is a link between religion and intolerance. There has to be an evolutionary purpose?

 

This fascinates me too. I'm also interested in faith and the brain. I wish I'd been able to participate in a study about religious people! Then, maybe I could see how my brain has changed between the super religious faithful me, and the atheist me.

 

Also, I'm familiar with some studies that show a correlation between fear and conservatism. I thought this was fascinating, and I think it might tie in with the religions idea.

 

I'll look them up if anyone is interested in them.

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