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My response is that I freeze and I'm kinda stiff. I'm not sure what to do. I'm honestly so shocked by it. The last time I whipped around, because I think if I hadn't he would have continued to keep patting my butt.

 

Do you think he will find a reason to fire you if you confront him on it?

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My response is that I freeze and I'm kinda stiff. I'm not sure what to do. I'm honestly so shocked by it. The last time I whipped around, because I think if I hadn't he would have continued to keep patting my butt.

 

Honestly, if I badly needed that specific job and didn't want to go through a lawsuit, I'd start wearing high heels and practice jumping backwards with a startled shriek.

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Theoreticals aside: This. This is what I'm worried about BUT there is no HR. It's a small business with about 10-15 employees. Gah. This whole thing makes me want to cry. I know for some people it's hard to understand why I wouldn't just give him a piece of my mind, but it's so much more complicated than that. I've always had a hard time standing up for myself. Which is why I lost my innocence at 14 forcibly and why I spent 8 years married to a man that was very open about the fact that he didn't love me even though I served him in every way that I could to "make" him love me. Sigh.

 

It's further complicated by the fact that I NEED this job. I don't have before and after school care for my children. This job allows me to take them and pick them up. Grrr... I. Want. To. Cry. The worst thing is that I actually feel bad for HIM. What is wrong with me???

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I can empathize with much of what you've written here about yourself. I understand where you're coming from.

 

That said, I think your first step needs to be to write down when this has happened. Keep a journal at home for now. Then, you have two choices: a) approach him directly (hard, I know!) and say that the "patting" made you really uncomfortable and you'd like it to never happen again, or b) wait for the next time and THEN say he'd better never do it again.

 

Unfortunately, I have to agree with a previous poster that this is likely only the beginning. Unless you lay down some very clear boundaries, he will probably escalate his behavior. :glare: If you feel he is the kind of guy who would fire you for telling him to stop, google your state's department of labor and see if you can find someone there to speak to about sexual harrassment and what your next move should be.

 

Good luck to you, whatever you choose to do!

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Theoreticals aside: This. This is what I'm worried about BUT there is no HR. It's a small business with about 10-15 employees. Gah. This whole thing makes me want to cry. I know for some people it's hard to understand why I wouldn't just give him a piece of my mind, but it's so much more complicated than that. I've always had a hard time standing up for myself. Which is why I lost my innocence at 14 forcibly and why I spent 8 years married to a man that was very open about the fact that he didn't love me even though I served him in every way that I could to "make" him love me. Sigh.

 

It's further complicated by the fact that I NEED this job. I don't have before and after school care for my children. This job allows me to take them and pick them up. Grrr... I. Want. To. Cry. The worst thing is that I actually feel bad for HIM. What is wrong with me???

 

It might be time to talk to someone who can help you develop skills so you can stand up for yourself. These issues must be dealt with or the pattern of abuse/being taken advantage of will continue. I am so sorry.

 

"Needing" the job gives the boss power over you. You have several options:

 

Confront your boss - this does not need to be hostile. Simply state that you feel uncomfortable when he touches you and you wish to keep your work relationship professional.

 

Start looking for another job which does not really help you work on standing up for yourself.

 

If you stand up for yourself things may improve. Or he may retaliate. In that case you would look for another job anyway. If you say nothing you may have to continue to put up with harassment, in which case you will start looking for a new job. I think your best option is to take the leap, professionally address this situation and see what happens.

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Yes. I've seen him try very hard to dodge unemployment claims to the point of lying.

 

In that case document it and if your state allows it use a VAR and record your conversation with him where you ask him to not do that anymore. Then if it continues or he fires you take it to the labor board. Either way I'd b e looking for a way to get out of that job asap.

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Thank you. :grouphug: I mentioned it to my secretary and she said that one time he smacked her on the butt with an object...can't remember what it was? A tape measurer possibly? She's only been here 3 weeks, though, and Im his "favorite". He lets me do basically whatever I want to do. He lets me off of work WHENEVER I need time off, etc.

See, this sounds to me like he is cultivating this type of thing intentionally. Grooming, if you will. Guys like this tend to see what they can get away with and ramp it up from there, or at least continue on with the behavior. I think it is unlikely he'll stop.

 

I'd exhaust the free resources in your state (labor board or whatever it is), and then consider an attorney.

 

Both you and the secretary are fairly new. Do you think that previous females may have resigned for this very reason?

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A boss sexually harassing an employee is intimidation, plain and simple, IMO. (eta: look at what has happened...she's afraid to address it because she fears she'll lose her job. That's why a situation like this, especially with a boss and subordinate, is by its very nature harassment and intimidation, IMO).

 

It can be, or it can be a joke that has gone too far.

 

Just because one person feels week and intimidated, doesn't mean the other person is using intimidation against them.

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It can be, or it can be a joke that has gone too far.

 

Just because one person feels week and intimidated, doesn't mean the other person is using intimidation against them.

 

I completely disagree. Boss and subordinate? I can't wrap my head around someone seeing this as anything other than an act of intimidation. And, add in the fact that he's doing this to two fairly new employees-one has been there 7 months, the other a few weeks by the sound of it. I don't know when the first episode occurred for OP, but clearly he was feeling *really* friendly, *really* fast...I find it hard to assign any sort of even remotely benign intent when reading through her posts.

Edited by Momof3littles
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It can be, or it can be a joke that has gone too far.

 

Just because one person feels week and intimidated, doesn't mean the other person is using intimidation against them.

 

IME, men don't make jokes like that unless they already have a certain perception of women in their minds. It's not 1967. Every man knows patting female employees' backsides is inappropriate and unacceptable. Even if they claim not to know...they know.

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I read through more posts and agree, this guy is grooming you. You said he lets you do whatever you need to for time off, etc. this does not entitle him to touch your body. Document everything. I still think you need to seek help learning how to stand up for yourself, but it is probably time to look for a new job. Ugh.

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See, this sounds to me like he is cultivating this type of thing intentionally. Grooming, if you will. Guys like this tend to see what they can get away with and ramp it up from there, or at least continue on with the behavior. I think it is unlikely he'll stop.

 

I'd exhaust the free resources in your state (labor board or whatever it is), and then consider an attorney.

 

Both you and the secretary are fairly new. Do you think that previous females may have resigned for this very reason?

 

Not that I know of, but I didn't meet them. He is very particular about how the job is to be done and I luckily have more than enough experience for the job. He went through multiple secretaries right before I came because they didn't have the skills/attitude he wanted.

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Not that I know of, but I didn't meet them. He is very particular about how the job is to be done and I luckily have more than enough experience for the job. He went through multiple secretaries right before I came because they didn't have the skills/attitude he wanted.

By his report?

 

I'm not doubting that you are highly qualified and very competent, but I am wondering if there is more to his turnover problem, in light of how quickly he seems to test his employees' tolerance for his behavior.

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Not that I know of, but I didn't meet them. He is very particular about how the job is to be done and I luckily have more than enough experience for the job. He went through multiple secretaries right before I came because they didn't have the skills/attitude he wanted.

 

Who said this? The boss or other employees? There is probably more going on here than just incompetence. Maybe the past secretaries did not have a "willing" attitude? :glare:

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Theoretically I'd say, "What the f*^% is wrong with you? Do not ever touch my @ss again, please and thank you!"

 

It's been allowed to slide several times now so he obviously thinks you...eh, the theoretical employee...likes it.

 

Theoretically, I think the guy sounds like an @sshole. Who does he think he is that he feels he is above the law? Smacking his employees on the rear with his hand and with objects and making smarmy comments about your butt? Gross. What a creep.

 

Theoretically, my dh would have an uncomfortable little chat with my boss. I guarantee it wouldn't happen again.

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Theoretically, it would be a typical boss-employee relationship, but a very good work relationship in which both theoretically get along very well. Theoretically, the boss WOULD BE the top chain of command and the theoretical owner of said theoretical business. The butt smacking would theoretically be x3 and in a jovial atta girl kinda way although theoretically a comment or 2 have come up about the theoretical employees butt.

 

I's be finding a new job ASAP.

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Theoretically I'd say, "What the f*^% is wrong with you? Do not ever touch my @ss again, please and thank you!"

 

It's been allowed to slide several times now so he obviously thinks you...eh, the theoretical employee...likes it.

 

Theoretically, I think the guy sounds like an @sshole. Who does he think he is that he feels he is above the law? Smacking his employees on the rear with his hand and with objects and making smarmy comments about your butt? Gross. What a creep.

 

Theoretically, my dh would have an uncomfortable little chat with my boss. I guarantee it wouldn't happen again.

 

Theoretically, I love this post!

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Thank you. :grouphug: I mentioned it to my secretary and she said that one time he smacked her on the butt with an object...can't remember what it was? A tape measurer possibly? She's only been here 3 weeks, though, and Im his "favorite". He lets me do basically whatever I want to do. He lets me off of work WHENEVER I need time off, etc.

 

Ick.

 

You are in such a tough spot.

 

He's extra nice to you because he wants to get you in bed. What an unbelievable jerk.

 

And he's a jerk, mama, plain and simple. Do. not. feel sorry for him. He does not deserve your sympathy.

 

I think you can either go along with it (in which case his advances may escalate, it wouldn't surprise me at all, he wants you), or you can document and either confront him directly or consult an attorney. I mean, if you go to him directly you either have to play hard @ss and tell him to knock it off or play coy and delicate in hopes of saving your job. Bleh.

 

Are you looking for other work?

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In addition, the last theoretical incident may have involved a little more than atta girl in which the hand lingered much more than a slap and was more of a pat (three times a pat). AND said theoretical employee is scared of losing her job as a single mother of 3. ;) Especially since said theoretical employee has been given much leeway in her theoretical hours to allow for her to only work hours in which her children are at school. :glare:

 

OK, the patting thing is entirely different from what I was originally picturing in my mind.

 

 

It's further complicated by the fact that I NEED this job. I don't have before and after school care for my children. This job allows me to take them and pick them up. Grrr... I. Want. To. Cry. The worst thing is that I actually feel bad for HIM. What is wrong with me???

 

Not that I know of, but I didn't meet them. He is very particular about how the job is to be done and I luckily have more than enough experience for the job. He went through multiple secretaries right before I came because they didn't have the skills/attitude he wanted.

 

Here's the thing. I think the guy is doing this because he can. Period. I'm not getting the feeling that you have let him know that you're uncomfortable with the physical contact, and if you're not crystal clear about it, he has no way of knowing you don't find the whole thing amusing.

 

You don't have to yell and scream and make a huge scene. The next time he touches you, reach down and remove his hand, and say something like, "OK, no more touching. I've got work to do around here." It's very important that you physically remove his hand, because it will make him realize that you're serious. You need the job, so you are stuck dealing with this as delicately as possible. BUT, I wouldn't advise you to be alone with him any more than is absolutely necessary. It might also be helpful to talk with a friend at work who has been there longer than you have, and see if this guy has a pattern of coming on to his employees. I am very concerned that his secretaries don't last long.

 

In the meantime, start looking for another job, in case he gets nasty when you let him know he can't keep touching you.

 

I will say, though, that until you have specifically asked him to remove his hands from your body, that he may have no clue that you don't enjoy it. If you laugh when he does it, you are encouraging his behavior.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that he may or may not be a terrible person, but you won't know until you stand up for yourself. If you're not saying no, you might as well be saying yes -- and the guy knows you're single, so he may just be gearing up to ask you out. (Is he married?)

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I completely disagree. Boss and subordinate? I can't wrap my head around someone seeing this as anything other than an act of intimidation. And, add in the fact that he's doing this to two fairly new employees-one has been there 7 months, the other a few weeks by the sound of it. I don't know when the first episode occurred for OP, but clearly he was feeling *really* friendly, *really* fast...I find it hard to assign any sort of even remotely benign intent when reading through her posts.

 

IME, men don't make jokes like that unless they already have a certain perception of women in their minds. It's not 1967. Every man knows patting female employees' backsides is inappropriate and unacceptable. Even if they claim not to know...they know.

 

I am not saying it is right, or acceptable, all I am saying is that sometimes just a sincere conversation with a person that says "I feel you crossed a line, please don't do it again, is enough". Only the OP knows how the events played out. I have worked since I was a teenager and have worked in small companies (5 employees) to national companies with probably 500,000 employees. I have had training, I have taught training.

 

I still don't think that every single thing that one person does to another needs to result in a person losing their job, or a law suit. Give them a warning first and then if they continue, pursue it from there.

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Well, even if you aren't going to hire a private attorney, I'd talk to the labor board or other relevant groups that deal with sexual harassment before saying a word to him. Again, if he has this high turnover rate with employees, do we know if they resigned or were fired without relying on what he has told you? I'd want it documented somehow (labor board, etc) before saying anything to him. That way it is less likely IMO to seem like it is retaliation if you say something to him, he fires you, and then you want to file a complaint. I would report it beforehand for that reason. Maybe an attorney on here can guide you, but I'd want it documented before I said anything more to him. In the meantime I'd avoid being alone with the creep.

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I am not saying it is right, or acceptable, all I am saying is that sometimes just a sincere conversation with a person that says "I feel you crossed a line, please don't do it again, is enough". Only the OP knows how the events played out. I have worked since I was a teenager and have worked in small companies (5 employees) to national companies with probably 500,000 employees. I have had training, I have taught training.

 

I still don't think that every single thing that one person does to another needs to result in a person losing their job, or a law suit. Give them a warning first and then if they continue, pursue it from there.

I vehemently disagree. A supervisor doing this to a subordinate is IMO pretty much always carries a level of humiliation and intimidation. I don't consider myself a wallflower, but the very nature of a boss/employee relationship, particularly in a difficult economy, makes it so that there is a level of intimidation by the very nature of their relationship and his actions toward her.

 

eta: My concern with any employee not reporting it is that in a *supervisor* and employee relationship in particular, there is very little stopping the other person from framing it as an issue with the employee's incompetence, etc. and then making it look like the employee's complaint is merely retaliatory. The supervisor can trash someone's entire career over something like this...references, etc. and since *he* has no one overseeing him, I think she has to report it to a labor board or similar. He holds the power by the nature of the relationship, and I'm sure he knows she needs this job, needs the flexibility, etc. If he is called out on his behavior and he perceives her as a threat, what's going to stop him from steamrolling her? He's lied to get out of paying unemployment claims according to OP, has a pattern of high turnover, etc. Clearly what he's doing seems to be working for him, and perhaps he feels emboldened by knowing he's gotten away with it before without any retaliation from the employee. Maybe he has a way of "managing" these employees (ie they don't go along with his thing, he fires them for something else).

Edited by Momof3littles
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I am not saying it is right, or acceptable, all I am saying is that sometimes just a sincere conversation with a person that says "I feel you crossed a line, please don't do it again, is enough". Only the OP knows how the events played out. I have worked since I was a teenager and have worked in small companies (5 employees) to national companies with probably 500,000 employees. I have had training, I have taught training.

 

I still don't think that every single thing that one person does to another needs to result in a person losing their job, or a law suit. Give them a warning first and then if they continue, pursue it from there.

 

That's exactly what I'm thinking, too.

 

We need to know exactly how she responded to the physical contact, so we'll have a better idea as to how to advise her to proceed.

 

If the guy knows she hates what he's doing, and he doesn't stop, it's entirely different from the guy having no clue that she doesn't like it, and he views the whole thing as mutual flirtation.

 

And BTW, I'm NOT blaming her for any of this, and I'm also not excusing his behavior. It was out of line, no matter how you slice it, but I'm all about the intentions and how he responds to being told to stop.

 

It's all well and good to vilify this guy and to say he should be brought up on charges or whatever, but the fact is that Julie needs this job, and I think she's hoping to figure out how to tell this guy to buzz off, without losing her job.

Edited by Catwoman
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That's exactly what I'm thinking, too.

 

We need to know exactly how she responded to the physical contact, so we'll have a better idea as to how to advise her to proceed.

 

If the guy knows she hates what he's doing, and he doesn't stop, it's entirely different from the guy having no clue that she doesn't like it, and he views the whole thing as mutual flirtation.

 

And BTW, I'm NOT blaming her for any of this, and I'm also not excusing his behavior. It was out of line, no matter how you slice it, but I'm all about the intentions and how he responds to being told to stop.

 

:iagree:

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Does it seem harmless, or s*xual?

 

The attitude means a lot to me.

 

Personally, I would wait until it happened again and tell him to cut it out. I wouldn't be nasty about it unless the guy didn't get the message.

 

I think a few people here are going a bit far with this. I haven't heard that the guy means any harm -- I'm getting more of an impression that he is clueless, joking around, and wants to seem like a fun, cool guy.

 

I'm not condoning the butt-slapping, but I'm also not ready to say that lawsuits should be filed. If he's basically a nice guy to work for, I wouldn't go too crazy over this. I would let him know I didn't like to be touched, but I wouldn't be threatening physical harm or legal action.

 

I can only imagine how my husband would feel to find out another man touched my butt. No way. No how.

 

I wouldn't sue, if otherwise I liked the guy. But I'd sit down with him and explain that whatever he may think, it is NOT acceptable to touch a woman on the butt that he isn't dating or married to. Period.

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There is a path of action between putting up with it and sitting your boss down for a heart to heart, and that's to have something ready to say if he does it again. If he patts your butt and you immediately say, "Hands off buddy!" or even just "Please don't!" He COULD get the message without feeling like he has been taken to task. A reaction that he perceives as "in the moment" and that allows him to play it off could be less threatening and embarrassing for him.

 

Then the real test would be if he did it again, at which point I would either ramp up, "I really meant it when I asked you not to do that. Please stop."

 

Basically if he is (in his own mind) being chummy or flirting to see where he can get, he should get the message after the negative reaction. If he's a jerk he might chastise you for disliking it or continue. At that point I would probably quit.

 

 

PLEASE do not get me wrong, I think any woman would be justified in breaking a guys nose or filing a lawsuit at any point in the situation you've described. No one should have to put up with that. But if you really want to keep your job and keep the workplace environment pleasant, then sitting your boss down for a talk really probably will not achieve that.

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"Playful", "clueless" or not, it is an abuse of power, period.

 

A (hypothetical) single mom of 3 is in a vulnerable, powerless spot to have to consider a conversation in which she communicates limits of behaivor that should already by understood by any adult in 2012.

 

By the act alone, regardless of motive, he has abused his power. By the act alone, he has caused stress and concern. She will now have to find a way to have a conversation in which he will know he's at risk; he's created a hostile, unacceptable work environment.

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Not that I know of, but I didn't meet them. He is very particular about how the job is to be done and I luckily have more than enough experience for the job. He went through multiple secretaries right before I came because they didn't have the skills/attitude he wanted.

 

Ummmm...I'm not sure it was the job that was the problem. Just saying.

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"Playful", "clueless" or not, it is an abuse of power, period.

 

A (hypothetical) single mom of 3 is in a vulnerable, powerless spot to have to consider a conversation in which she communicates limits of behaivor that should already by understood by any adult in 2012.

 

By the act alone, regardless of motive, he has abused his power. By the act alone, he has caused stress and concern. She will now have to find a way to have a conversation in which he will know he's at risk; he's created a hostile, unacceptable work environment.

:iagree: And if he's at risk, he may do whatever it takes to get her out of there. And then if she says a word to the labor board, etc. after she's fired, he'll probably just cry that she's retaliating for being fired. That's why it is wrong, wrong, wrong no matter what the motive. It is an abuse of power no matter what, and makes the employee vulnerable...that's the nature of an employer/employee relationship. One doesn't have to be a wallflower personality incapable of advocating for oneself to be vulnerable. Standing up to him can put her in danger of being fired or retaliated against, including after she leaves the job (making up reasons with respect to why she was fired, giving a bad reference, etc.). IMO it doesn't matter how strong she is, and it doesn't matter how firm of a message she is capable of sending to him. The nature of the relationship makes it so that she's automatically in a vulnerable position, no matter how she handles it, and that is supremely unfair and wrong.

Edited by Momof3littles
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"Playful", "clueless" or not, it is an abuse of power, period.

 

A (hypothetical) single mom of 3 is in a vulnerable, powerless spot to have to consider a conversation in which she communicates limits of behaivor that should already by understood by any adult in 2012.

 

By the act alone, regardless of motive, he has abused his power. By the act alone, he has caused stress and concern. She will now have to find a way to have a conversation in which he will know he's at risk; he's created a hostile, unacceptable work environment.

:iagree: My mom worked in HR for many years before going into private practice. She'd *LOVE* a case like this. Having the conversation is probably going to make things worse in terms of tension, even if the touching stops.

Edited by Sneezyone
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I've only read the first post, so I may be missing a lot of the story if it unfolded. Honestly, it all depends.

 

Slap or grab/squeeze?

 

How long have I known this boss?

 

Have they ever made me feel uncomfortable in any way before?

 

Are we friends too, or is the relationship strictly professional?

 

Did they say anything while they were doing it?

 

It would take quite a bit for me to "go up the chain of command" because I honestly believe that just like everything else (PC) these days...the whole sexual harassment protection, which started out as a good thing to protect those in need, has been blown way, WAY out of proportion.

 

ETA: Ok, I went back and skimmed. Tough situation, for sure. First and foremost I would tell this person to keep their hands to themselves, while still trying to keep the job. If that didn't work, then I would pursue legal avenues and probably be depending on family/friends/govt for help until I found another job because sticking around and putting up with it would not be an option.

Edited by fraidycat
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I've only read the first post, so I may be missing a lot of the story if it unfolded. Honestly, it all depends.

 

Slap or grab/squeeze?

 

How long have I known this boss?

 

Have they ever made me feel uncomfortable in any way before?

 

Are we friends too, or is the relationship strictly professional?

 

Did they say anything while they were doing it?

 

It would take quite a bit for me to "go up the chain of command" because I honestly believe that just like everything else (PC) these days...the whole sexual harassment protection, which started out as a good thing to protect those in need, has been blown way, WAY out of proportion.

I think you need to read the whole thread.

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This used to happen with regularity when I waited tables as a young woman, though not from bosses but from customers. I would let them know, usually through disgusted look and other body language, that it wasn't appreciated. It *was* a pain when one's wages depended on a customer's whims about tipping, so I'd have to play it kind of carefully to put a stop to it but without being overtly insulting and losing part of my wages. I was much happier when I switched to bartending because the tip from any one person was not enough to affect the night's wages, as it can be when waiting tables, so I had more control over things.

 

I think back then, if it was a boss who I got along with otherwise, but who had a tendency to be a clueless "gift to women" in his own eyes, I'd say something like, " I know we kid around a lot, but I don't appreciate butt-slapping. Please don't do that any more." If it happened again, I'd escalate, and start looking for another job.

 

I can't see it happening now!

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Non-theoretically, a boss who was paying me under the table in college did it, and I told him if he ever did it again, I'd slap him. He laughed and did it again. I slapped him. Then I quit. Then my guy friends went in when he balked on paying me and demanded my pay. I got it.

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Imagine that his hand is a giant spider trying to crawl up your skirt. That is the kind of response you need next time it happens, because I am pretty sure there will be a next time. You need to shriek when you're startled by something so creepy and rude. Start picturing that hand as a big, hairy, poisonous spider and practice in the mirror. Visualizing will help you not freeze up (or feel silly) when it it happens.

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Well, even if you aren't going to hire a private attorney, I'd talk to the labor board or other relevant groups that deal with sexual harassment before saying a word to him. Again, if he has this high turnover rate with employees, do we know if they resigned or were fired without relying on what he has told you? I'd want it documented somehow (labor board, etc) before saying anything to him. That way it is less likely IMO to seem like it is retaliation if you say something to him, he fires you, and then you want to file a complaint. I would report it beforehand for that reason. Maybe an attorney on here can guide you, but I'd want it documented before I said anything more to him. In the meantime I'd avoid being alone with the creep.

 

:iagree:

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That theorectical butt would be getting another non theoretical job......asap. If the "butt slapping" one was small business owner and no HR department I would be high tailing it out of there. I have a way of making due for long periods of time with long term plans to surprise lossers like that with a nice view of my baskside. You don't need to tip your hand but I would be sending out resumes and getting other references each and every day until the better job showed up. Each day would be part of my long term plan toward another term of employment.

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There is a path of action between putting up with it and sitting your boss down for a heart to heart, and that's to have something ready to say if he does it again. If he patts your butt and you immediately say, "Hands off buddy!" or even just "Please don't!" He COULD get the message without feeling like he has been taken to task. A reaction that he perceives as "in the moment" and that allows him to play it off could be less threatening and embarrassing for him.

 

Then the real test would be if he did it again, at which point I would either ramp up, "I really meant it when I asked you not to do that. Please stop."

 

Basically if he is (in his own mind) being chummy or flirting to see where he can get, he should get the message after the negative reaction. If he's a jerk he might chastise you for disliking it or continue. At that point I would probably quit.

 

 

PLEASE do not get me wrong, I think any woman would be justified in breaking a guys nose or filing a lawsuit at any point in the situation you've described. No one should have to put up with that. But if you really want to keep your job and keep the workplace environment pleasant, then sitting your boss down for a talk really probably will not achieve that.

 

:iagree:

 

That's pretty much what I have been thinking all along. This isn't a situation where it's a huge company and she can report him to Human Resources. This is a small company and Mr Butt Slapper owns it. Sure, Julie could report him to a labor board, but then she would be out of a job and not have any money to support her kids. It's not like she's in a position where this is an extra little job for spending money; she needs this job.

 

Could she sue him for s*xual harassment? Sure she could, and she might even win, but this is a small business. It's not like she would collect millions of dollars here -- it would be a small amount of money, a large portion of which would go to her attorney. And in the meantime, Julie would have no job and no income.

 

Is the whole situation horribly unfair? Yes, it is unfair.

 

But what I think Julie needs right now are suggestions on how to handle this guy and get him to stop touching her, while still being able to keep her job.

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:iagree:

 

That's pretty much what I have been thinking all along. This isn't a situation where it's a huge company and she can report him to Human Resources. This is a small company and Mr Butt Slapper owns it. Sure, Julie could report him to a labor board, but then she would be out of a job and not have any money to support her kids. It's not like she's in a position where this is an extra little job for spending money; she needs this job.

 

Could she sue him for s*xual harassment? Sure she could, and she might even win, but this is a small business. It's not like she would collect millions of dollars here -- it would be a small amount of money, a large portion of which would go to her attorney. And in the meantime, Julie would have no job and no income.

 

Is the whole situation horribly unfair? Yes, it is unfair.

 

But what I think Julie needs right now are suggestions on how to handle this guy and get him to stop touching her, while still being able to keep her job.

 

Hmmm...I'm more inclined to think Mr. Inappropriate will find a way to keep going, intimidate the OP, or find a way to be rid of an employee who won't let him continue with his behavior (and who might be a risk to him financially or otherwise once she draws attention to him directly about his behavior). Or he will make things unpleasant enough for said employee that the employee will resign (not necessarily through inappropriate contact, but in other ways). I just don't think you can reason with someone like this or expect that he'll abide by boundaries. If he knows she's on to his game and suspect she might do something about it, I can't imagine he'll let her keep her job. Raising the issue with him directly is going to put him on notice, and I think he's probably had plenty of experience in handling this type of situation. JMO.

 

I get what you are saying, but I think someone like this, given the history with the secretary that is 3 weeks into the job, numerous other women who have worked for him have quit or been let go, etc. I can't imagine he's going to abide by boundaries. And if he senses she's onto his game, I don't think it will end well. Again, total speculation on my part, but that's some pretty bold behavior on his part, and given the history with other employees not lasting long, and him starting in on his secretary of 3 weeks...I just don't think this is the kind of guy who is going to suddenly respect her boundaries. My money would be on him manufacturing some kind of issue, piling on work or making things more difficult for her, changing her hours or decreasing her flexibility, making it tough for her to keep her job, finding a way to say she's not doing her job well, etc. so that she'll resign. Or he'll just keep going until she quits. Again, purely speculation, but I don't think a guy like this is going to respect boundaries at all.

Edited by Momof3littles
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