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Punch him square in the nose. Honestly. I would break his jaw.

 

:iagree: If I *somehow* managed to hold myself in check and avoid an assault charge for myself, I'd go straight up the food chain, hitting all the proper channels, and make sure all the correct disciplinary actions were taken. I'd be out for straight-up termination, that's for sure.

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I would need to know more about the context of the theoretical butt smacking, as well as have some info about the relationship between the smackee and the boss. I would also be interested in knowing if this sort of behavior is common in that particular theoretical workplace.

 

Theoretically, I mean. :D

 

I certainly wouldn't want anyone fired over it, unless it was clearly s*xual in nature, and the smackee had repeatedly told the guy to cut it out. If it was just a one-time joking thing, it's entirely different from repeated smarmy actions.

Edited by Catwoman
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I would need to know more about the context of the theoretical butt smacking, as well as have some info about the relationship between the smackee and the boss. I would also be interested in knowing if this sort of behavior is common in that particular theoretical workplace.

 

Theoretically, I mean. :D

 

Theoretically, it would be a typical boss-employee relationship, but a very good work relationship in which both theoretically get along very well. Theoretically, the boss WOULD BE the top chain of command and the theoretical owner of said theoretical business. The butt smacking would theoretically be x3 and in a jovial atta girl kinda way although theoretically a comment or 2 have come up about the theoretical employees butt.

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I would need to know more about the context of the theoretical butt smacking, as well as have some info about the relationship between the smackee and the boss. I would also be interested in knowing if this sort of behavior is common in that particular theoretical workplace.

 

Theoretically, I mean. :D

 

I certainly wouldn't want anyone fired over it, unless it was clearly s*xual in nature, and the smackee had repeatedly told the guy to cut it out. If it was just a one-time joking thing, it's entirely different from repeated smarmy actions.

 

:iagree:

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Theoretically, it would be a typical boss-employee relationship, but a very good work relationship in which both theoretically get along very well. Theoretically, the boss WOULD BE the top chain of command and the theoretical owner of said theoretical business. The butt smacking would theoretically be x3 and in a jovial atta girl kinda way although theoretically a comment or 2 have come up about the theoretical employees butt.

 

Theoretically, I would spend some time documenting all of this, and then I would have a friendly discussion with boss about not doing it, that it made me uncomfortable and that I don't appreciate it. If it continued, I would theoretically be suing his @ss for sexual harassment.

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Additionally, theoretically of course, this might have happened to said employee's secretary as well. ;) But with a theoretical object instead of boss' hand.

If he's done it more than once, I'd absolutely report it. Even if theoretically you can laugh it off, it is totally and completely unacceptable, and clearly he thinks it is okay to interact with subordinate women this way. That shows a pattern. And maybe the next woman will 100 percent not be okay with it, or find it intimidating, etc. At least your documentation (and hopefully the secretary's documentation) would be on file. Who knows how many women you might help by having it documented. I'm not kidding. Even if you are okay with it, or you eventually leave, if this doesn't get documented, he's going to keep on doing it.

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Theoretically, it would be a typical boss-employee relationship, but a very good work relationship in which both theoretically get along very well. Theoretically, the boss WOULD BE the top chain of command and the theoretical owner of said theoretical business. The butt smacking would theoretically be x3 and in a jovial atta girl kinda way although theoretically a comment or 2 have come up about the theoretical employees butt.
Additionally, theoretically of course, this might have happened to said employee's secretary as well. ;) But with a theoretical object instead of boss' hand.

 

Does it seem harmless, or s*xual?

 

The attitude means a lot to me.

 

Personally, I would wait until it happened again and tell him to cut it out. I wouldn't be nasty about it unless the guy didn't get the message.

 

I think a few people here are going a bit far with this. I haven't heard that the guy means any harm -- I'm getting more of an impression that he is clueless, joking around, and wants to seem like a fun, cool guy.

 

I'm not condoning the butt-slapping, but I'm also not ready to say that lawsuits should be filed. If he's basically a nice guy to work for, I wouldn't go too crazy over this. I would let him know I didn't like to be touched, but I wouldn't be threatening physical harm or legal action.

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I'd give him The Look, then screw with his coffee. For a long time.

 

I have a certain look that men have always thought it'd be okay with them to smack me like that. Especially men of a certain age and nationality, I guess because of social and political issues they came of age during. I've never had to give someone The Look more than once, they learn to let it go and not do it (to me) again.

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In addition, the last theoretical incident may have involved a little more than atta girl in which the hand lingered much more than a slap and was more of a pat (three times a pat). AND said theoretical employee is scared of losing her job as a single mother of 3. ;) Especially since said theoretical employee has been given much leeway in her theoretical hours to allow for her to only work hours in which her children are at school. :glare:

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Does it seem harmless, or s*xual?

 

The attitude means a lot to me.

 

Personally, I would wait until it happened again and tell him to cut it out. I wouldn't be nasty about it unless the guy didn't get the message.

 

I think a few people here are going a bit far with this. I haven't heard that the guy means any harm -- I'm getting more of an impression that he is clueless, joking around, and wants to seem like a fun, cool guy.

 

I'm not condoning the butt-slapping, but I'm also not ready to say that lawsuits should be filed. If he's basically a nice guy to work for, I wouldn't go too crazy over this. I would let him know I didn't like to be touched, but I wouldn't be threatening physical harm or legal action.

I think it is inherently problematic in a boss-subordinate role. Peer to peer would be bad enough, but boss and subordinate? IMO, not harmless. At all.

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Theoretically, it would be a typical boss-employee relationship, but a very good work relationship in which both theoretically get along very well. Theoretically, the boss WOULD BE the top chain of command and the theoretical owner of said theoretical business. The butt smacking would theoretically be x3 and in a jovial atta girl kinda way although theoretically a comment or 2 have come up about the theoretical employees butt.

 

He would have a theoretical broken jaw....a d a theoretical lawsuit....just saying.

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In addition, the last theoretical incident may have involved a little more than atta girl in which the hand lingered much more than a slap and was more of a pat (three times a pat). AND said theoretical employee is scared of losing her job as a single mother of 3. ;) Especially since said theoretical employee has been given much leeway in her theoretical hours to allow for her to only work hours in which her children are at school. :glare:

 

Theoretically, this person is scum, and taking advantage of theoretical single mother of 3. Theoretically, a cease and desist (however theoretical employee would like to issue that) needs to happen. ASAP.

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In addition, the last theoretical incident may have involved a little more than atta girl in which the hand lingered much more than a slap and was more of a pat (three times a pat). AND said theoretical employee is scared of losing her job as a single mother of 3. ;) Especially since said theoretical employee has been given much leeway in her theoretical hours to allow for her to only work hours in which her children are at school. :glare:

It sounds to me like this piece of work will continue to push boundaries with you and others. Are you okay with that? Is the convenience of work putting up with that yucky feeling when dealing with him? I would find myself avoiding or having my skin crawl around someone like that, and the added stress probably wouldn't be worth it to me.

 

I once interned as a physical therapist in an industrial setting. I really enjoyed the work. I later interviewed for a job when I was just out of grad school where on the interview, the interviewer basically asked me if I could put up with joking and sexual harassment from the men I'd be treating, because the perception was that was part of the job. No, not okay, and a total red flag that it was mentioned on the actual interview.

 

There were some rough around the edges guys who behaved like that in the place where I interned, and I was able to shut it down immediately every single time. But, I knew I had the support of the company, and any one of them would have been fired in an instant if I had pursued that option. I had worked for the same company in the HR dept for 3 summers in college prior to interning in their on site PT dept, so I would have had no trouble escalating it if I wanted to go that route. Having a company more or less ask me to basically "okay" it verbally on a job interview? Ick, and totally inappropriate.

Edited by Momof3littles
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I read your post quickly and thought you said that kind of touching is unacceptable except among inmates...:lol:
I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

In addition, the last theoretical incident may have involved a little more than atta girl in which the hand lingered much more than a slap and was more of a pat (three times a pat). AND said theoretical employee is scared of losing her job as a single mother of 3. ;) Especially since said theoretical employee has been given much leeway in her theoretical hours to allow for her to only work hours in which her children are at school. :glare:

 

Can you get a new job? I don't say that lightly. How long have you worked there? Long enough to tell him you are uncomfortable with this and it needs to stop. If he is the owner, he must realize the seriousness of any charge of harassment brought against any employee. If he is unwilling to play by those rules, I'd search for other employment.

 

In the meantime I would document the incidents, print off the laws for your state, start a file, and abruptly stop any further incidents. I would loudly verbal tell him he needs to stop. Are there other employees around that will back you up?

 

My concern too would be him using your single status to exploit his "hand" no pun intended.

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no, I wouldn't file anything, I wouldn't press charges or anything...I would hit him square in the face. I am a business owner, I have worked hard to compete in a very competitive arena. No one touches me or I will hurt them. That's how men do it. I don't know what a theoretical person would do nor would I advise someone else to do it, but that is what I would do. I am 5'4" and weigh approximately 120lbs. A man slapping my butt takes all my dignity away and that is not acceptable. It is not about sex, it is dignity. Not long ago we had some men working on our landscaping in front of my office. Every time I walked in they said rude things. One of my co workers told me to set them straight to keep someone else from having to do it for me. hmmmmmm exactly. I have dignity, and the respect of everyone around me. I will always handle things just like the men do.

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Well, this didn't happen in a work environment but once a man grabbed me in an inappropriate place and I punched him in the face so hard that I knock him down. This was not a planned response but happened automatically. So I assume that that is probably what would happen in such a theoretical situation. I would then persue whatever legal channels that were available.

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I would let him know that I found it offensive and ask him to not do it again. I would let him know that I think it crossed the line, and if it did happen again, even in joking, I would take it as a serious sexual harassment.

 

 

 

I had a boss once that liked to hide, then jump out, yell and scare people. I HATE being startled like that. Once was not-so-funny, twice was annoying...by the third time he did it to me, I gave him the above mentioned talk (minus the sexual verbiage) and he never did it again. He and I were friends and he would sometimes forget that while at work, he needed to keep things professional.

 

I believe in going to the person and trying to work it out with them first. I don't think everything needs to be handled through management. There are some exceptions like intimidation-themed-harassment and heavy duty sexual harassment.

 

Sometimes people just need to remember where the line is, and if they cross, they need to know.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one.

 

 

 

Can you get a new job? I don't say that lightly. How long have you worked there? Long enough to tell him you are uncomfortable with this and it needs to stop. If he is the owner, he must realize the seriousness of any charge of harassment brought against any employee. If he is unwilling to play by those rules, I'd search for other employment.

 

In the meantime I would document the incidents, print off the laws for your state, start a file, and abruptly stop any further incidents. I would loudly verbal tell him he needs to stop. Are there other employees around that will back you up?

 

My concern too would be him using your single status to exploit his "hand" no pun intended.

 

Okay, my concern about her going right to this guy is this...what is to stop him from then firing her, and if she then speaks up, he claims it is retaliatory for being fired? I think it would be better to proactively approach HR about it for this reason. I'm not an attorney, but I think documenting is also protecting yourself and your job and references. If you go to him and say stop it, what's to stop him from firing you and you lose your nice job anyway? And will you be more or less believable talking to HR about it afterward?

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I believe in going to the person and trying to work it out with them first. I don't think everything needs to be handled through management. There are some exceptions like intimidation-themed-harassment and heavy duty sexual harassment.

 

 

A boss sexually harassing an employee is intimidation, plain and simple, IMO. (eta: look at what has happened...she's afraid to address it because she fears she'll lose her job. That's why a situation like this, especially with a boss and subordinate, is by its very nature harassment and intimidation, IMO).

Edited by Momof3littles
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I read your post quickly and thought you said that kind of touching is unacceptable except among inmates...:lol:

 

:lol:

 

That could be unacceptable too!

 

And of course in some work places I am sure it feels that way (being an inmate)! :D

 

All joking aside, these days, touching of any sort in the workplace is really a big no-no and should be done VERY carefully. Even a hug of support could be misunderstood. There is no reason to be slapping anybody's rear at work.

Edited by jelbe5
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Okay, my concern about her going right to this guy is this...what is to stop him from then firing her, and if she then speaks up, he claims it is retaliatory for being fired? I think it would be better to proactively approach HR about it for this reason. I'm not an attorney, but I think documenting is also protecting yourself and your job and references. If you go to him and say stop it, what's to stop him from firing you and you lose your nice job anyway? And will you be more or less believable talking to HR about it afterward?

 

Theoreticals aside: This. This is what I'm worried about BUT there is no HR. It's a small business with about 10-15 employees. Gah. This whole thing makes me want to cry. I know for some people it's hard to understand why I wouldn't just give him a piece of my mind, but it's so much more complicated than that. I've always had a hard time standing up for myself. Which is why I lost my innocence at 14 forcibly and why I spent 8 years married to a man that was very open about the fact that he didn't love me even though I served him in every way that I could to "make" him love me. Sigh.

 

It's further complicated by the fact that I NEED this job. I don't have before and after school care for my children. This job allows me to take them and pick them up. Grrr... I. Want. To. Cry. The worst thing is that I actually feel bad for HIM. What is wrong with me???

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Okay, my concern about her going right to this guy is this...what is to stop him from then firing her, and if she then speaks up, he claims it is retaliatory for being fired? I think it would be better to proactively approach HR about it for this reason. I'm not an attorney, but I think documenting is also protecting yourself and your job and references. If you go to him and say stop it, what's to stop him from firing you and you lose your nice job anyway? And will you be more or less believable talking to HR about it afterward?

 

She said he is also the owner, so if it's a small business there might not be an HR department.

 

I recently had to deal with an issue I believed to be "gender based harassment" (a legal definition according to my state). Because the concern was brought to the employer they had to deal with it in a specific legal manner. I would try to look up laws for your state, because if there is no HR dept it could get you fired, which might be illegal (also not an attorney). Bottom line I believe there are protocol that employers must follow when a claim is made. As an employer he should know better.

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Theoreticals aside: This. This is what I'm worried about BUT there is no HR. It's a small business with about 10-15 employees. Gah. This whole thing makes me want to cry. I know for some people it's hard to understand why I wouldn't just give him a piece of my mind, but it's so much more complicated than that. I've always had a hard time standing up for myself. Which is why I lost my innocence at 14 forcibly and why I spent 8 years married to a man that was very open about the fact that he didn't love me even though I served him in every way that I could to "make" him love me. Sigh.

 

It's further complicated by the fact that I NEED this job. I don't have before and after school care for my children. This job allows me to take them and pick them up. Grrr... I. Want. To. Cry. The worst thing is that I actually feel bad for HIM. What is wrong with me???

 

First of all there is nothing wrong with you!!! Does he treat any of the other employees in this manner?

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm sorry you're going through this. It is not your fault.

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Theoreticals aside: This. This is what I'm worried about BUT there is no HR. It's a small business with about 10-15 employees. Gah. This whole thing makes me want to cry. I know for some people it's hard to understand why I wouldn't just give him a piece of my mind, but it's so much more complicated than that. I've always had a hard time standing up for myself. Which is why I lost my innocence at 14 forcibly and why I spent 8 years married to a man that was very open about the fact that he didn't love me even though I served him in every way that I could to "make" him love me. Sigh.

 

It's further complicated by the fact that I NEED this job. I don't have before and after school care for my children. This job allows me to take them and pick them up. Grrr... I. Want. To. Cry. The worst thing is that I actually feel bad for HIM. What is wrong with me???

 

Wow. I just realized that I have serious issues.

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Okay, my concern about her going right to this guy is this...what is to stop him from then firing her, and if she then speaks up, he claims it is retaliatory for being fired? I think it would be better to proactively approach HR about it for this reason. I'm not an attorney, but I think documenting is also protecting yourself and your job and references. If you go to him and say stop it, what's to stop him from firing you and you lose your nice job anyway? And will you be more or less believable talking to HR about it afterward?

 

The problem is that it doesn't sound there IS any HR dept. If this guy is the top of the chain, he's probably a small business owner.

 

Lovinmomma, in your shoes, I'd document any and every instance, including time, date, who was watching, what he said, etc. I'd tell him, as politely and calmly as I could, that it makes me feel very uncomfortable when he does that to me, and would he please not do it anymore. I'd keep looking for another job, and when I found one, I'd send him a much more forceful and detailed letter, and I'd report him to the BBB, the labor department, and every business-oriented government agency I could.

 

I'm sorry, I know the precarious spot you're in, and it's just not right. I agree that he's taking advantage of your need for security and flexibility.

 

ETA: Oops, I was typing at the same time everyone else was posting :)

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Theoreticals aside: This. This is what I'm worried about BUT there is no HR. It's a small business with about 10-15 employees. Gah. This whole thing makes me want to cry. I know for some people it's hard to understand why I wouldn't just give him a piece of my mind, but it's so much more complicated than that. I've always had a hard time standing up for myself. Which is why I lost my innocence at 14 forcibly and why I spent 8 years married to a man that was very open about the fact that he didn't love me even though I served him in every way that I could to "make" him love me. Sigh.

 

It's further complicated by the fact that I NEED this job. I don't have before and after school care for my children. This job allows me to take them and pick them up. Grrr... I. Want. To. Cry. The worst thing is that I actually feel bad for HIM. What is wrong with me???

 

What have you tried? What is your response? (and before everyone jumps on me for it sounding like I am saying it is your fault---I'm not---but maybe there is a way to get the message to him that this is not acceptable and will not be tolerated and you can still keep your job). Start documenting. And find the words and the tone to let him know you are not amused.

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First of all there is nothing wrong with you!!! Does he treat any of the other employees in this manner?

 

:grouphug::grouphug: I'm sorry you're going through this. It is not your fault.

 

Thank you. :grouphug: I mentioned it to my secretary and she said that one time he smacked her on the butt with an object...can't remember what it was? A tape measurer possibly? She's only been here 3 weeks, though, and Im his "favorite". He lets me do basically whatever I want to do. He lets me off of work WHENEVER I need time off, etc.

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What have you tried? What is your response? (and before everyone jumps on me for it sounding like I am saying it is your fault---I'm not---but maybe there is a way to get the message to him that this is not acceptable and will not be tolerated and you can still keep your job). Start documenting. And find the words and the tone to let him know you are not amused.

 

My response is that I freeze and I'm kinda stiff. I'm not sure what to do. I'm honestly so shocked by it. The last time I whipped around, because I think if I hadn't he would have continued to keep patting my butt.

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Thank you. :grouphug: I mentioned it to my secretary and she said that one time he smacked her on the butt with an object...can't remember what it was? A tape measurer possibly? She's only been here 3 weeks, though, and Im his "favorite". He lets me do basically whatever I want to do. He lets me off of work WHENEVER I need time off, etc.

 

Part of it sounds like that's because he thinks he can treat you like carp in the interim.

 

I agree with Scarlett, you need someway (outside of the broken jaw) to bluntly tell him he's crossed a line.

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