have friend issue...

[happycc]

I have a friend who has a son my daughters age and they have all been very close. They have been friends for years back when they all went to school. He is still in school. Anyways, a few weeks back he brought over a duffle bag of guns. All types of guns. Ok they are the plastic kind, some water gunnish. Anyway just kind of wierd after that whole Colorado shooting incident. Anyways he was in the backyard with the girls. We were watching and the next thing I know he grabs one of my girls and holds her hostage with a gun to her head.

 

I freaked out. I told him "please dont do that and do something else". His mom just said ," oh so so." And then said to me that he has been hanging out with this other friend in our neighborhood who is really into guns. Now this kid's father is a retired pd but still that just freaked me out. I don;t really want him over anymore. Lately, he has been talking about shooting and killing constantly. He is 10yrs old by the way. Maybe it is normal boy but I have an 18yrs old son and my ex was a cop and my son was never that obsessed with guns.

 

I have already banned his game boy over here because he would come over to play but then go hide in the backyard and play his video game. It is supposed to be social time not go isolate yourself and play video games at a friend's house.

 

Now I told his mom and dad "please dont have him bring his duffle bag of guns over here anymore." Am I overreacting?

 

Their mom is going through some stuff. She is really focused on Legos and sorting them and the house looks like a garbage dump. Trash everywhere. I tried to go over there and help clean because she has said she hates her house and never wants to spend time there. But when I tried to throw out the garbage she said "no. I have to sort through it. " Her husband complains about the house. She has serious OCD and doesn't hug or kiss her family or kids or husband. No relations. Nothing. Husband is at work and had an injury and wife blames her kid behaviors on dad having the injury because he doesnt spend time with them but she is on the computer all day long selling and sorting her LEGOS.

 

What can I do?

Edited August 18, 2012 by happycc

[Elizabeth in MN]

In all honesty I would report the mother to CPS for hording. It has long term negative impacts on children. You're starting to see some of the symptoms now.

[Kathryn]

Yikes. At the very least, I wouldn't allow the guns to be brought to you home. I really don't know about your friend. Is it dangerous bad, or just bad?

[marbel]

The family sounds like they have a lot of problems. I don't know if it's to the level of calling CPS - that's very serious. But what about a family member? Do they go to any kind of church that you could call? A mutual friend who might give a second opinion of the situation after seeing it first-hand?

 

I don't mind toy guns at all but unless it's a water gun, it is never aimed at a person. Target shooting only! (Well, older boys with airsoft and proper equipment are also fine with me; that's different than what you are talking about.) If you continue to have the boy over, no more bringing his guns.

[Excelsior! Academy]

We are pretty pro gun around this neck of the woods, but never, and I mean NEVER, would a child point a gun, real or fake, at someone else's head in my presence. Said boy would not be returning with guns to my house.

 

The hoarding/Lego issue is a completely different problem. She needs encouragement and help. Not cps help just friendly help.

[Sneezyone]

I have yet to see or hear of a hoarder being cured by 'friendly' help. The house may get clean but the disorder remains and the cycle begins anew. I'd call the father/church and insist they do something or social services will be called. Cps does not automatically equal child removal either. It does mean, however, that if warranted, ongoing supervision will occur and a plan will be put in place to make the home healthy and safe for those kids.

[Laurie4b]

OP--is your friend a true hoarder?

 

Unless the house is unsanitary or dangerous to the kids (like boxes falling over), I would not consider reporting to CPS. A report to CPS is like administering chemotherapy. Chemo can permanently damage you so you shouldn't take it unless you'd die without it. CPS intervention is like chemo. You don't know what will happen once you pull that trigger.

 

One of my sons is pretty into guns, but I've never seen him do anything like that. However, kids do bizarre things, inexplicable things, so unless there is a second incident of that type after you've admonished him not to, I would not immediately cut off ties with the child, just set a firm limit about what happens at your house.

[Bang!Zoom!]

I grew up in a gun friendly household.

 

This is probably the first ever thread on WTM that ever shocked me cold. Honest to God.

[Sneezyone]

Just a caveat...I am a mandated reporter so I always seem to be on the wrong side of these threads. It's not my job to decide whether the suspicion or allegation of neglect is valid, merely to report what I see. If I saw or knew of the conditions you described and behavior you described and failed to report, I would lose my job. I could not legally err on the side of silence.

[JudoMom]

I grew up in a gun friendly household.

 

This is probably the first ever thread on WTM that ever shocked me cold. Honest to God.

 

What shocked you?

[JudoMom]

OP--is your friend a true hoarder?

 

Unless the house is unsanitary or dangerous to the kids (like boxes falling over), I would not consider reporting to CPS. A report to CPS is like administering chemotherapy. Chemo can permanently damage you so you shouldn't take it unless you'd die without it. CPS intervention is like chemo. You don't know what will happen once you pull that trigger.

 

One of my sons is pretty into guns, but I've never seen him do anything like that. However, kids do bizarre things, inexplicable things, so unless there is a second incident of that type after you've admonished him not to, I would not immediately cut off ties with the child, just set a firm limit about what happens at your house.

 

:iagree:

[happycc]

EYou can't walk through the house. I am by far no neat nick. I am also pretty cluttered at times.

 

But this is pretty bad.

There is garbage everywhere. Empty food boxes here and there.

 

Paper everywhere-kitchen table, on the ground. Rabbit poop and pee on the living room floor.

 

Mold in the bathroom. (this is what they told me but I can smell it.) I introduced them to a neighbor friend who can help them get rid of it but they have not taken that offer.)

 

Dad doesnt even lock his gun.

 

Things have been financially tough on them. Dad without job for about a year.

However they spent a lot on trips and such now and in the past.

 

I believe the mom's mom has alzheimer and husband has mentioned that his wife is in not the woman he married and she was becoming like her mom.

 

 

 

They have been there for me through some tough times and I just want to help them without jeopardizing my own childrens mental health.

 

I will not call CPS on them. I have seen what CPS has done to families and they do not help or monitor. It is also very biased especially if the familiy member works with a state/county organization and if the family is wealthy. My brother and I had CPS involved in our life. It did us no good. They have destroyed my own personal family.

 

They do belong to the church and in fact I did talk to the father two week ago about his wife seriously needing help and now they do not call me or drop by anymore. So maybe that friendship is over.

I told him he should talk to pastor perhaps. He told me his oldest son who i 14yrs old doesnt want to go to church (father can't enforce since mom doesnt want to go to church anymore-too much germs and she has some kind of social anxiety as well) and oldest son say he doesnt want to live there anymore.

 

 

What can I do to help them.....without calling CPS?

[Catwoman]

OK, why isn't the husband cleaning the house? You said he's out of work; what does he do all day? :glare:

 

The "hostage situation" thing really creeps me out. If you don't think the mom is in shape to do anything about it, or to realize that this could indicate a much bigger future problem for the kid, I'm wondering if your dh is friends with the father -- if the dad is a relatively sensible guy, he might be the best person with whom to discuss your concerns about the boy's behavior, and I think he would probably feel more at ease talking with your dh than with you, unless you're already good friends with the guy.

 

I wouldn't want that boy around my dc because if he hasn't been taught that you don't EVER point ANY kind of gun at another person, that would concern me, and I don't care if it was a toy gun, because next time, it could be a real one.

 

Gun safety is very high on my list of important things to teach children, whether or not the family even owns a gun, and it sounds like somebody dropped the ball with this kid (and if they didn't, and the kid is acting this way anyway, the father needs to know!)

 

As far as the mom goes, I don't think there's anything you can do to help her. It's clear that she has mental issues, and that she needs help, but that's really going to have to be her husband's responsibility... and from what you've said about the condition of the house, it sounds like he has given up and can't be bothered doing what needs to be done.

 

Are there any grandparents in the picture, or aunts and uncles who might step in and try to help?

Edited August 19, 2012 by Catwoman

[Bang!Zoom!]

What shocked you?

 

I guess I'm hardwired for respect with guns. I've never seen/heard anything like that in my entire life, and I'm not sheltered by a long shot.

 

I can't even form a response for advice, it's beyond me.

[besroma]

We are pretty pro gun around this neck of the woods, but never, and I mean NEVER, would a child point a gun, real or fake, at someone else's head in my presence. Said boy would not be returning with guns to my house.

 

The hoarding/Lego issue is a completely different problem. She needs encouragement and help. Not cps help just friendly help.

 

:iagree:

[Forget-Me-Not]

I really think you need to reconsider calling CPS. She needs help that you can't provide. :grouphug:

[happycc]

Friends help and support friends.

 

Anyways, the father was injured in a vehicle accident. Someone drove into his patrol car years ago and has had his neck fused and things didn;t go well- a lot of nerve pain. He is in tremendous pain and has to take pain meds around the clock.

 

I wouldn't doubt father has given up. If she literally yelled at me for wanting to throw away garbage or place recycling in the recycling bin, she will definitely make a stink to her husband. They tell me that they fight/argue.

 

Perhaps I can work with the mom a bit....I have talked to her about how frustrating it must be for her to live in the house like that. I mean I have had post partum depression pretty bad and the house fell apart during those times and having a newborn puts things backwards in terms of the house so I understand how things can get a little out of hand. So I told her that I understand it can be overwhelming just to start. I told her about I would be willing to be bring some bins over-store, give away, toss and help her sort... But she has hesitated...The look of fear on her face is painful to watch.

 

Perhaps I can help her do some vision skills-(don;t know how to call it) Have her see in her eyes how she would like the house to look like? She seems also really depressed.

 

I told the husband I am ready to call the Hoarders tv show on them so they can be happy again. Of course temporarily my friend will go nuts but maybe in the long run the show might help her.

 

No my husband is not close to them much. I am closer to both of them and I really care about them and their kids.

 

I worry for their sons.

 

I just want them happy and content with life. That is all. It just pains me to see her son so focused on the guns and then feel the need to take my daughter in his arms and put a gun to her head. My daughters were so unnerved by that.

 

The father agreed that that wasn't right and he said he will discuss that with his son. Again he was an ex police officer so I am sure he will be darned sure that doesn;t happen again.

 

In the past when I had him over for awhile, he had so much fun playing games, jigsaw puzzles, going to amusement parks, making forts, viking ships out of sheets etc and when it was time to go home he started to cry and his family gets really mad. And then forbids him to come over as much.

[Mrs Mungo]

Friends help and support friends.

 

I disagree. Sometimes, the kindest thing you can do for someone is to initialize something that forces them out of their comfort zone. She is comfortable with how things are. She does not know how far away from normal she is. It isn't kind to the son to leave him in this situation.

 

when it was time to go home he started to cry and his family gets really mad. And then forbids him to come over as much.

 

Think about this. You really don't think you should call CPS?

[Forget-Me-Not]

I disagree. Sometimes, the kindest thing you can do for someone is to initialize something that forces them out of their comfort zone. She is comfortable with how things are. She does not know how far away from normal she is. It isn't kind to the son to leave him in this situation.

 

 

 

Think about this. You really don't think you should call CPS?

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Don't let the recent CPS thread scare you, please. In most cases, they will offer support and services to help the family get things turned around. Removal is a last resort.

Edited August 19, 2012 by LemonPie

[Mrs Mungo]

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Don't let the recent CPS thread scare you, please. In most cases, they will offer support and services to help the family get things turned around. Removal is a last resort.

 

In my experience? With situations like this? The kids will often be removed while the home is cleaned up, then the parents will get them back. CPS will come and check on the home periodically. These are things that you cannot do and a tv show will not do.

[shinyhappypeople]

Friends help and support friends.

 

First, regarding the guns, I think your boundary about the boy not bringing any guns to your house is spot on.

 

Regarding the CPS/Hoarding issue, just because you won't call CPS, doesn't mean that someone else won't get them involved. The longer it goes on, the more likely it is that someone else will find out.

 

If you truly want to help this mom avoid CPS involvement, sit down with the dad and remind him that HE could lose his kids to the system because of his wife's hoarding behavior. He needs to man up and protect his children. Put the ball in his court to insist on therapy and working with a professional organizer to clean up the house. Have him read the stories on this web site: Children of Hoarders.

 

If it were me, I'd encourage him to move with the kids into an apt or with a relative until the house is cleaned. Or, at the very least, have the kids live with a safe adult until this is resolved. They deserve at least that.

 

This whole situation is so sad.

[PeacefulChaos]

OP--is your friend a true hoarder?

 

Unless the house is unsanitary or dangerous to the kids (like boxes falling over), I would not consider reporting to CPS. A report to CPS is like administering chemotherapy. Chemo can permanently damage you so you shouldn't take it unless you'd die without it. CPS intervention is like chemo. You don't know what will happen once you pull that trigger.

 

One of my sons is pretty into guns, but I've never seen him do anything like that. However, kids do bizarre things, inexplicable things, so unless there is a second incident of that type after you've admonished him not to, I would not immediately cut off ties with the child, just set a firm limit about what happens at your house.

 

:iagree:

I don't know much about CPS, but I wouldn't involve them unless it was absolutely necessary. And regarding the gun thing, meh....

[Ravin]

Okay, I am extremely aware of the biases of CPS in my state, and if called they would likely remove the children from your friend's home, at least temporarily. However, it sounds like both parents need professional help for the state of their mental health (mom for OCD, dad for depression). The state of the house and the unsecured/accessible firearms (especially around a gun-obsessed child) are also very real and immediate safety concerns.

 

Do the children appear to have impaired hygeine because of the state of the house? Have any of them been getting sick more often? Is there good food there, too? A zone of sanctuary from adult mess in kids' room(s)? Are there any domestic violence issues between the parents? Are the kids depressed/emotionally bothered by the stuff with their parents?

 

Things like this tend to get worse, not better, if left unaddressed. Social chemotherapy might be warranted. At the least I'd call with concerns, CPS at their door at all could be a needed wake-up call.

 

As far as the boy with the guns, I would probably tell him he is not allowed to bring the guns to your house any more. If he does, I'd confiscate them until he goes home. I would also tell him that pretending to hold hostages and pointing any kind of gun at anyone is unacceptable, and that only water or nerf guns in mock fights with agreeable participants are ever allowed to take place at my house. Taking hostages is dishonorable and uncool even when playing pretend, and if I saw that happen again, I'd ask him to leave.

 

If friend is over, too, I'd tell her that while they're at my house, her kids need to follow my rules for things like this (politely, of course), and if she won't enforce them, I will.

 

I'd also remind my kids they don't have to participate in that sort of play, and that I expect them to act honorably even when playing.

 

[Bang!Zoom!]

Brilliant thoughts Ravin.

[QuirkyKapers]

As far as the boy with the guns, I would probably tell him he is not allowed to bring the guns to your house any more. If he does, I'd confiscate them until he goes home. I would also tell him that pretending to hold hostages and pointing any kind of gun at anyone is unacceptable, and that only water or nerf guns in mock fights with agreeable participants are ever allowed to take place at my house. Taking hostages is dishonorable and uncool even when playing pretend, and if I saw that happen again, I'd ask him to leave.

 

If friend is over, too, I'd tell her that while they're at my house, her kids need to follow my rules for things like this (politely, of course), and if she won't enforce them, I will.

 

I'd also remind my kids they don't have to participate in that sort of play, and that I expect them to act honorably even when playing.

 

:iagree: Every house has different rules. The kids know the rules at my house. They know if they aren't followed, they don't get to stay and play.

[Night Elf]

So you tried to talk to the mom and help her with cleaning and she wouldn't let you. From what others are guessing here, I'd agree that she probably has a hoarding problem. Common sense talk from you is simply not going to work. It will take a professional to help her and she and her DH are going to have to be the ones to do that.

 

You talked to the dad and they stopped coming over to visit and stopped calling? It sounds like he doesn't want your help either.

 

It sounds like a sad, sad situation but I don't see anything you can do except pray for them if you're a praying person. I don't know what the etiquette is on going over their head to church leaders but if she doesn't go to church, then it's not really a family issue they can help with. The dad would probably freak out if you did that anyway. And it stands without saying that a call to CPS would end your relationship entirely. But they would be on someone's radar to see that something is done. I wish I had some idea of an easy fix but it really doesn't sound like these people want your help.

[Elizabeth in MN]

The father agreed that that wasn't right and he said he will discuss that with his son. Again he was an ex police officer so I am sure he will be darned sure that doesn;t happen again.

 

This is the same father that doesn't even lockup his guns?

[happycc]

when my daughter came over the mom made her and her son wash the walls. That is so wierd considering they could barely walk around the house.

 

A few weeks ago her son had really really long nappy hair. He had not combed it for weeks it looked like. I finally couldn;t stand it and combed his hair using conditioner and brush and such. He was crying because he doesn;t like his hair combed or whatever but it was becoming dreads so I know he would not want his hair all cut off. He is the type that does not like change.

 

No I don't see them getting ill too much although one son has asthma---maybe exacerbated by the mold in the house.

 

The dad cooks dinner. He makes decent food that I would eat. Mom won;t eat out of the house for fear of germs. She won;t let her kids take baths for fear of germs. They have to shower. She makes them wash their hands constantly. But her own house is pretty gross.

 

Dad told me that if he were to make a stink about something (house being a mess or whatever) it would cause a fight between the two of them. I said why don;t you give her an ultimatum (get help or else) and he said that would cause a huge scene. Basically, who would take care of the kids if he were to go and take the kids and move into an apt? He just got a job recently. So he needs her to watch the kids--take them to school etc.

 

Nonetheless I am not giving up. If they end up calling us or coming by to see us, I will still be their friends and find ways to help them in some way. They have been there for us. I will look up Children of Hoarders and have father look at it.

 

Another idea I have:

She doesn;t want to throw away her old mail or whatever for these reasons: 1) there might be a check inside one of them 2) someone might take the information and use it to commit fraud..

 

perhaps I should buy her a shredder for Christmas.

Edited August 20, 2012 by happycc

[Quad Shot Academy]

I would not hesitate to give the pastor a heads up that a family in his church are in turmoil and ask him to pay a visit. ;)

[Sneezyone]

Aren't clergy mandatory reporters too? As far as I know, only a handful of sates exempt clergy.

[Elizabeth in MN]

Aren't clergy mandatory reporters too? As far as I know, only a handful of sates exempt clergy.

 

California clergy are mandated reporters.

[joannqn]

I disagree. Sometimes, the kindest thing you can do for someone is to initialize something that forces them out of their comfort zone. She is comfortable with how things are. She does not know how far away from normal she is. It isn't kind to the son to leave him in this situation.

 

 

 

Think about this. You really don't think you should call CPS?

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

My husband put on Hoarders last night. One of the families had a young teen son who called CPS himself. The show came over, cleaned up the house, and all was good. Nope. Hoarding is such a huge deal, way more than just a dirty house. She lapsed and destroyed the house. The kid called CPS again.

 

With rabbit pee and poo on the living room rug, the house is a health hazard to the children. They could easily get sick, chronically sick, from living like that.

 

I'm guessing the the child with the gun is acting out, in part, from living in that environment. It isn't good for him by any stretch.

 

This sounds way past your ability to help. I mean, she wanted to sort through trash before she'd let you throw it out? Even if she did allow you to come over and go through her stuff and toss the trash, it'd probably be back to filthy in no time. She needs serious help to get better.

[jhschool]

I am pro-gun but even toy guns

should *never* be pointed at

anyone's head!!!

My son was never into toy

guns but that

was my rule with any friends that

played with him. If anyone ever

pointed even a stick at someone else and said "bang" I would say,

"Don't point that at him."

I think guns should be respected.

I wouldn't have that boy over at

my house anymore unless he agreed that toy guns are only for

pretend monsters or bushes, never

for people or pets.

[kalanamak]

 

perhaps I should buy her a shredder for Christmas.

 

I'm sorry, but I think through hopefulness and ignorance, you are missing how intractable this problem is ....

[Guest submarines]

OP--is your friend a true hoarder?

 

Unless the house is unsanitary or dangerous to the kids (like boxes falling over), I would not consider reporting to CPS. A report to CPS is like administering chemotherapy. Chemo can permanently damage you so you shouldn't take it unless you'd die without it. CPS intervention is like chemo. You don't know what will happen once you pull that trigger.

 

One of my sons is pretty into guns, but I've never seen him do anything like that. However, kids do bizarre things, inexplicable things, so unless there is a second incident of that type after you've admonished him not to, I would not immediately cut off ties with the child, just set a firm limit about what happens at your house.

 

:iagree: I love your CPS analogy.