amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Dd is very upset with her hair, again. She's been threatening to take the clippers and buzz it off. Her hair problems are the fault of both of us. My fault for not making her shower at a decent hour so i am willing to get to her hair. My fault for not addressing it when she ignores me telling her to leave her hair alone. My fault big time for slacking too often. Her hair should be at the top of my daily chore list. She tries to say she can't reach the back of her head, she refuses to leave the braids alone, and she's really good at ignoring my requests to shower. Today, we are dealing with the big fat knot, then a friend is cutting it short (goal is to cut off the damaged bleached parts from when we dyed it purple last summer), and will braid it. If after the cut, she still fights, i'm getting out the clippers! I hesitate (and point of poll) because she has such beautiful hair. She wants to go ps when she hits high school and girls can be mean and 3 years is not that long for hair growth. There are a few other reasons, but nothing that big of a deal. If we use the clippers, her and i can both get into the consistent daily habit of caring for her hair without much hair to get in the way. We'll grow into hair care. So, if friend's hair cut doesn't turn out too well, do i take the clippers to her head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Girls' Mom Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I wouldn't :) But I would get her a pixie style cut for the time being if it can work for her. (does she have curly hair or straight?) My dd came to me in tears last year with a giant knot in the back of her head and told me to chop it all off. We did a pixie cut. It was cute, and let her deal with her hair better until she matured a bit. She's letting it grow back out now. It has some not-so cute times right now, but it is better than if we had clippered it. THAT would have been so much worse in the ugly stages of growing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Saturate that knot with oil (olive, or whatever) and comb from the ends first, gradually moving closer to the scalp. This will make that knot much easier to deal with and hopefully prevent a lot of loss. My dd has extremely kinky curley hair that knots up easily. It still takes time and effort, but using the oil works. You might also use conditioner if you don't want to wash oil out later, but I prefer oil. ETA: I think it may also be time to take her to a very good stylist as well. Let the stylist talk to her about her hair - what she wants from it - and see what suggestions are given. I kept having horrible hair until someone was honest and told me that the styles I kept choosing were part of the problem. Edited August 17, 2012 by Dobela Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 A pixie or even a short bob would be liberating for you both. Have it done by a professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandragood1 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 This works for us. Before she gets into the shower heavily condition the hair in the knot and any other hair at the back/bottom of her scalp. Let it soak. Then shampoo as normal. Then condition all over. Don't rinse the conditioner out. You step in with a wide-toothed comb and comb it all out in the shower before the conditioner is rinsed. If she does this every few days she will be able to do it herself. Also, at 11, I think it is her responsibility to do her hair, except on rare occasions. Sandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 I don't think a pixie or Bob would work. I wish i knew how to post pictures. Her hair is very kinky curly. The current knot is almost like a bird's nest at the back of her head. Sadly, we've with this soooooo many times. I can get the knot out, and this is required prior to any cutting anyway. I' going to wet her hair, saturate it in detangler, conditioner, and i'll try some oil this time as well. We'll get it combed and loosely braided, then friend will chop. The cut will be short because of the damaged parts. She has been asking about the clippers (i think i have a 2" guard) for a while now, even when her hair is styled/braided, but i did forget how bad the growing out stages can be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 A pixie or even a short bob would be liberating for you both. Have it done by a professional. I agree. And short hair styles are very common amongst high school girls. Why would you think anyone would be mean to her because her hair isn't super long? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unicorn. Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 BTDT. We ended up cutting dd's hair shoulder length, and it was much easier for her to handle. She was about your dd's age at the time. Then when she turned 13 she got a hair straightener and really started taking care of her hair. Hang in there, sometimes it just takes a while, but eventually they do start taking care of these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=mog&hl=en&gl=us&client=safari&tab=wi&q=rachel%20crow&sa=N&biw=480&bih=208#i=11 Link is a picture of Rachel Crow from x factor. My dd looks so much like her it's crazy. Their hair is just about identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scuff Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 My girls' hair is much more managable at about shoulder length or a little shorted. Older dd liked it long (and it was beautiful), but she has been able to care for it herself now that it's shorter. I wouldn't break out the clippers just yet. Get the cut and Im sure it'll be fine. My girls don't really get major tangles anymore as long as they comb their hair every day and wash it about once a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soror Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 A pixie or even a short bob would be liberating for you both. Have it done by a professional. :iagree: I'm not an expert on black hair but I've seen black ladies w/ pixie cuts that have looked really cute. I cannot imagine that it would look any worse than taking a razor to her head. I don't think I'd let her grow it out either until the hygeine issues are resolved, ie taking a shower without being asked for a good period of time, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 If her hair is very thick and curly, then a short haircut could make it more difficult to manage. My dd has VERY thick and curly hair - 3B that is also very dry. If is it long, then the weight of the hair pulls on the curl and keeps it easier to manage. If it is short, then it "poofs" out all over (think dandelion) and is always harder to work with. Dd has to be very careful about caring for her hair. She only uses shampoo a few times a week and only on the scalp. She must pre-condition her hair with a lighter conditioner to get it ready to wash. Afterward, she uses a very thick conditioner and gently runs a pick through it and rinse it well. Due to eczema, she does not use a leave in conditioner, but it would be nice if she could. After washing, she gently lays her hair in a towel and carefully wraps the towel around her hair to "press" it dry with the towel. No rubbing or twisting, just letting the towel absorb the water. After a while, she takes it down and lightly runs her fingers through it. That's it for the day. At night she puts it in a lose pony tail. If she needs to touch up her hair during the day, she sprays a watered down leave in conditioner on it and uses her fingers to gently run through whatever area needs more attention. Curly hair is product heavy. Dd likes Neutrogena Triple Moisture and JessiCurl. We tried many others, but due to her eczema, these were the only ones she could use. Youngest has slightly less curly hair - 2B - but also very thick and dry. She can use many different product brands for dry hair, including a leave in conditioner. The leave in helps keep her hair more tangle free Also, does your dd use a silk or satin pillow case? Does she wrap her hair at night or put it in a cap? Both those can really help. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Black hair needs special treatment. She needs to be adding hair oils and lotions daily to keep it combable and not knotted, or she neds to keep it braided. Cutting it short will just create an afro that is much, much harder to manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Can I recommend the documentary about dealing with black hair called "Good Hair" by Chris Rock. He goes into all the difficulties of caring for black hair as well as the cost and long time commitment of all of the various options. I really think this would be helpful before making a long term plan. Also I do know that you can buy some magazines that specialize in hair styles for black hair. You may even be able to get a book at the library. If you do decide to go short maybe a pixie or gamine style like Halle Berry? I was frequently doing my 15 year old's hair in 6th grade and then still a little in 7th, by 8th it was only on special occassions. She is in the 10th grade now and almost never asks for help with her hair. The 12 year old is already doing her own hair and hers is not easy to deal with. She brushes her hair before going to bed and wakes up with a rat's nest in the back and the rest flying in every direction. If it gets the slightest bit humid it does the pigpen haze around the head look. She is learning to use a straightener and curling iron though and it is looking much better this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 She does use a satin pillowcase and sleep cap, and lots of "stuff." What works for her is regular conditioner, coconut oil, and just for me spray detangler. We have a good theory on routine, it just doesn't happen often enough. I know short will poof out more, but at this point, the damaged hair must be cut off. My friend says it will leave plenty hair to be braided. I really need to learn to braid more! Our issue really is being lazy. Dd is not yet completely capable, it's damaged and more dry than normal, and if we miss ONE SINGLE DAY of hair care, it sets us up for this knotted mess. :( Vote says no clippers, so i'll hope for the best with the cut today. I'm off to wake her and get going on her knot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 She does use a satin pillowcase and sleep cap, and lots of "stuff." What works for her is regular conditioner, coconut oil, and just for me spray detangler. We have a good theory on routine, it just doesn't happen often enough. I know short will poof out more, but at this point, the damaged hair must be cut off. My friend says it will leave plenty hair to be braided. I really need to learn to braid more! Our issue really is being lazy. Dd is not yet completely capable, it's damaged and more dry than normal, and if we miss ONE SINGLE DAY of hair care, it sets us up for this knotted mess. :( Vote says no clippers, so i'll hope for the best with the cut today. I'm off to wake her and get going on her knot. I just want to say that I understand, completely. As a white woman with a black daughter, hair can be a very frustrating issue. The time involved is just incredible. Some days I would like to NOT spend 30 minutes on dd's hair. And I end up regretting it every time I don't. Taking her to a good stylist has helped me a great deal though. Keeping the ends trimmed and shaped makes it look better, and style better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 We're having some dd stew for lunch. She's in the tub marinating in olive oil and conditioner. Lol. I'll give it about 15 minutes to soak in then i'll start combing. Naming it dd stew stopped her from whining when i woke her and told her to get in the tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabi Sabi Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Please just don't let some friend cut it unless the friend happens to be a trained stylist. Let someone who really knows what they're doing take a stab at it first. From what you've described her hair is clearly already a mess, why muck it up even further at this point? Step away from the scissors/clippers, mama, and call a professional! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 There are no local professionals, and that's part of the problem. If friend cuts it, we can see how it looks and if needed, we'll be in manhattan next week and can get it fixed. My mother is a hairdresser (has been my whole life) and she wouldn't even dream of touching dd's hair. Most people are scared of dd's hair, so if friend is willing, i'm also willing to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Have you read the Curly Girl book? IIRC, there is some good information specifically for black hair. I have very thick, curly hair. I hated it as a child, not sure I still like it. I had someone give me some Cholesterol for hair and it does a good job of keeping it moisturized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabi Sabi Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 There are no local professionals, and that's part of the problem. If friend cuts it, we can see how it looks and if needed, we'll be in manhattan next week and can get it fixed. My mother is a hairdresser (has been my whole life) and she wouldn't even dream of touching dd's hair. Most people are scared of dd's hair, so if friend is willing, i'm also willing to try. Can it wait until you're in NYC next week? Does it have to be cut today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyDay Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 There are no local professionals, and that's part of the problem. If friend cuts it, we can see how it looks and if needed, we'll be in manhattan next week and can get it fixed. My mother is a hairdresser (has been my whole life) and she wouldn't even dream of touching dd's hair. Most people are scared of dd's hair, so if friend is willing, i'm also willing to try. This has been our experience as well. Where we used to live until last summer, I'd walk into a salon and they would automatically start saying "No". I had to drive quite a distance to get her a haircut. Where we live now, it has been easy finding someone to cut her hair and it has made all the difference. Her hair is no longer split on the ends and messy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NapLover Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) This is a very good hair care website for girls with kinky/curly hair. The bloggers list products they use and give tutorials on how to wash, braid and style. I have natural hair (locs) but many in my family have loose natural hair (no perms) and they love this website. Once you get into a routine and figure out what products to use, your frustration and hers will go down. Hope this helps. http://www.beadsbraidsbeyond.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2012-07-11T16:22:00-04:00&max-results=2 You might very well have to cut off the damaged hair. It probably won't behave the way the other hair does, but I would preserve as much length as possible and get the rest of her hair healthy. Edited August 17, 2012 by NapLover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 There are no local professionals, and that's part of the problem. If friend cuts it, we can see how it looks and if needed, we'll be in manhattan next week and can get it fixed. My mother is a hairdresser (has been my whole life) and she wouldn't even dream of touching dd's hair. Most people are scared of dd's hair, so if friend is willing, i'm also willing to try. I began finding someone by stopping women on the street and asking them where they had their hair done. Many women do their own, or have someone in the family do their hair, and are willing to help out others. If you are near a beauty school, there is often a group there learning to do black hair as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 A pixie or even a short bob would be liberating for you both. Have it done by a professional. :iagree: I think completely shaving her hair would be upsetting, after the reality sinks in. I can hear your desperation though. Go with a cute pixie cut and begin your process of both of you learning to take care of her hair. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcelmer Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 "Our issue really is being lazy. Dd is not yet completely capable, it's damaged and more dry than normal, and if we miss ONE SINGLE DAY of hair care, it sets us up for this knotted mess. :(" If this is the issue, then this is where the solution lies. Make it a priority. Try to find a style that you can both agree on, and make her a priority. Yes, it is a lot of work, and a lot of commitment. it's hard. Just do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5knights3maidens Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 My girls got their hair cut at JC Penney yesterday. The lady did a great job. Their hair was so damaged by the pool even with good shampoo and conditioner. I didn't want to cut it, but it was for the best. It will grow back. Katie had at least 5 inches taken off and maybe even the same for Ana. Someone their may be able to help you. (and it is free/I tipped) :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKamp Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 My DD has similar hair (not quite as kinky), it was in a braid when she decided to cut the top herself, it rat nested to the point we had to cut it. The top was an inch long (thanks to her) and the stylist cut the rest leaving 2-3 inches. It's so curly that it looks really cute (I was DREADING it). I bought several fun headbands, my favorite are the wrap around ones that tie at the back. It has been the best style so far. We no longer fuss with tangles and knots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 She is now knot free, combed and braided. It will be cut later (again to deal with damage). It's possible that once the damaged is cut out, it will not knot up so quickly. We'll stick to our planned hair care routine while i learn to braid better. I will also find a shop in manhattan to trim her every 6 months or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raceNzanesmom Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=mog&hl=en&gl=us&client=safari&tab=wi&q=rachel%20crow&sa=N&biw=480&bih=208#i=11 Link is a picture of Rachel Crow from x factor. My dd looks so much like her it's crazy. Their hair is just about identical. Glad you got the knot out. With that type of hair, close to my sister's at that age, I think you need to be diligent to help her everyday. Keep it super moisturized, something with a light oil in it. Keep it trimmed, I'd do every three months, at least until the damage is gone. I would not clipper cut it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haupia Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 My daughter has this same hair. Very dry, gets damaged easily, even though we don't we blow dryer or anything. here is what I have researched and what the hair salon told me to do. First, you are doing great getting those damaged hair cut, because they just get knotted and friz. Second, she has a special shampoo we bought at Target that is for black hair. It is called Shea Moisture, curl and shine shampoo. It doesn't foam up, so less friz. You only need a little. It is a 9$ bottle, but we have sanity, and she has been useing the same bottle for 4 months now. She uses Dove moisturizing conditioner. While the conditioner is in her hair in the shower, she brushes it. That eliminates friz as well. When she gets out, she applies the Shea Moisture leave in conditioner for curly hair (Curl enhancing Smoothie, is what it is called.). It is very thick, you comb that in while it is still damp. The stylist said, the wetter the better. Then after that we have a mouse that she combs through as well. Do not use gel it has alcohol in it that dries out the hair. It is night and day with her hair when done this way. She hated doing her hair before because no matter what, it was alway crazy. Now she loves her hair and enjoys wearing it down. Hope this helps. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&source=mog&hl=en&gl=us&client=safari&tab=wi&q=rachel%20crow&sa=N&biw=480&bih=208#i=11 Link is a picture of Rachel Crow from x factor. My dd looks so much like her it's crazy. Their hair is just about identical. The link didn't work so I just googled images. All of the pictures I saw of Rachel Crow have chin length hair. Is your dd's hair much longer? would it still tangle if it was chin length? I really don't like the sound of clippers. If she doesn't like it, there isn't a single thing you can do to make it better until it grows out. Has she ever had hair that super short? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amo_mea_filiis. Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 She has had fairly short hair, and loved it. Rachel Crow's hair is likely much longer when wet like my dd's. Her hair when dry is about the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCMom Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I looked up Rachel Crow and that's my dd17's hair, lol! Both of my dd's have long curly hair, one has 3A and the other 4A (the 3A is partially colored), which is interesting. You probably should read the curly girl book, though everyone's hair is SO different that it can take a long time to get the perfect routine. :001_smile: They say that the main things that have helped them are: 1. Follow the curly girl routine. My girls have to wet down every day and condition every other day, but ymmv. They really have to follow the curly girl routine or pay the price by spending a hours combing out sometime soon and by looking like a puffball in the meantime...:D 2. comb if you have to - never brush 3. NEVER EVER EVER use shampoo and always leave in conditioner (which does not need to be "leave in" conditioner per se). Seriously, this one alone will cut the knots in half for dd who has 4A hair. 4. Use natural products; these do not typically have as much alcohol and other drying junk in them. Good here are Giovanni conditioner and Shea Moisture products from Target. Conditioners like Pantene and such leave a buildup on the curls that eventually does the opposite of what you want. 5. Treat every curl like an individual. ;) 6. Never ever get your hair cut wet. Ever. Really. No matter how hard the stylist tries to convince you. Don't.do.it. 7. Take ownership. It's your hair and it's AWESOME HAIR! hth, Georgia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elizabeth in MN Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 No, no clippers. Shorter is worse for thick and curly hair. Take her to a salon, get all the bleached hair cut off and then see what you have to work with. A layered bob might work for her, but you need a hair stylist that knows how to deal with your dd's hair type. Get her to read the Curly Girl book. At eleven she should be caring for her own hair IMO. My dd has the exact same hair as you describe, and I have somewhat thick and curly hair. We know your pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Very nice looking! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Yell Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 NO CLIPPERS! And hair grows about 6 inches per year, so that's 18 inches by high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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