No Regrets: How Homeschooling Earned Me a Master's Degree at Age Sixteen

[melbotoast]

Anyone read this? The Kindle edition is free right now. (link)

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I've read it and actually considered implementing her approach, however.....

 

I simply DO. NOT. BELIEVE that the kids who were educated using this approach had significant advantage over kids who were schooled more slowly. IMO, for MY family I just prefer a "slow and steady wins the race" rather than "4 hours every day go, go, go". I stand by a previous opinion of mine that, again, IMO, a teenager with a Master's degree just isn't as ready to make decisions/work out in the world as a 20-something with a Master's degree, all things being equal.

 

I also believe that just because you CAN do something that quickly doesn't mean that you SHOULD do something that quickly.

[LaxMom]

I've read it and actually considered implementing her approach, however.....

 

I simply DO. NOT. BELIEVE that the kids who were educated using this approach had significant advantage over kids who were schooled more slowly. IMO, for MY family I just prefer a "slow and steady wins the race" rather than "4 hours every day go, go, go". I stand by a previous opinion of mine that, again, IMO, a teenager with a Master's degree just isn't as ready to make decisions/work out in the world as a 20-something with a Master's degree, all things being equal.

 

I also believe that just because you CAN do something that quickly doesn't mean that you SHOULD do something that quickly.

 

I tend to agree, though I am a little awed by the Swanns. (I've also not been overly impressed with Calvert, but that's a whole different discussion)

 

And now I will go to the incredibly shallow, cupcake punchy place and ask: What on earth possessed her to put that hair on the cover? Has she not had a photo taken since 1985?

[Night Elf]

I own it and have read it a few times as an inspirational book. I would never have an interest in following her plan though.

[LibraryLover]

And now I will go to the incredibly shallow, cupcake punchy place and ask: What on earth possessed her to put that hair on the cover? Has she not had a photo taken since 1985?

 

 

That looks like a head shot from a Dynasty audition.

[melbotoast]

Yeah, I'm not sure what you would do with a master's degree at sixteen...but sounds like an interesting read.

 

And yes, the photo is awful. :001_huh:

[AdventureMoms]

I've heard of it and been mildly curious, but not enough to buy it. So thanks for the heads up on the free kindle edition! I'm not really thinking I'll be using the super-acceleration strategy, but I'm always interested on the different ways homeschooling can be done!

 

And there is no doubt that that photo is awful.

[LaxMom]

That looks like a head shot from a Dynasty audition.

 

You know I :001_wub: you, right?

[Shelsi]

Anyone else instantly think of Doogie Howser? lol

[Catwoman]

And now I will go to the incredibly shallow, cupcake punchy place and ask: What on earth possessed her to put that hair on the cover? Has she not had a photo taken since 1985?

 

I am so glad to hear I wasn't the only person thinking the same thing about her hair!

 

It's TRAGIC!!!!!!!!!

[Catwoman]

That looks like a head shot from a Dynasty audition.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

YES!!!

 

Or a really bad yearbook photo from the 80's.

[Catwoman]

Anyone read this? The Kindle edition is free right now. (link)

 

Thanks for the link, Melissa -- I just ordered it. :001_smile:

[Mergath]

I am so glad to hear I wasn't the only person thinking the same thing about her hair!

 

It's TRAGIC!!!!!!!!!

 

Definitely grabs your attention, though.

[LibraryLover]

You know I :001_wub: you, right?

 

 

The feeling is mutual.

[Mommy_of_4]

I have read it. We are just letting our kids go at their pace (well just ds and odd right now). We don't plan on taking any long breaks, just a few days at the holidays. My kids will most likely finish 2+ yrs in 12 months. We won't push them but we won't hold them back either.

[Murphy101]

Actually it was the mid eighties when the book was written and the picture taken. Sadly, the hair was fashionable then.

 

The mother put out a book just recently about her 26 year experience in home schooling, but the reviews are sparce.

 

I imagine a masters is just as useful at 16 as 36. Either the applicant is qualified and makes it through the interview process or they aren't, yes? :001_huh:

 

As for the rest, if you actually read Joyce Swann's material, you'll find she didn't ride the kids like packmules at all. Most of their "advanced" work wasn't advanced at all. If you school with only a 2 week break for Christmas, Easter, and vacation, that leave 46 weeks instead of 36 for school. Which means the first year, you are ahead of the "pack" so to speak by an entire quarter. If you keep on that track, it will shave a few years off graduation without doing any more than regularly assigned work each day.

 

Really all she did was stick to her plan and use it consistently.

[Catwoman]

I think we all need to remember that there is no shame in being poor, only dressing poorly.

 

OK, so that doesn't really apply here (although the author's choice of attire for the book cover is as awful as her hair and makeup,) but it's one of my favorite lines from Zorro, the Gay Blade and I hardly ever get the chance to use it.

 

Seriously, if I ever write a book and put my face on the cover, remind me that Glamour Shots may not be the best place to find a photographer.

 

It sounds like the author was trying to appear intelligent and professional, and she ruined the whole thing by choosing that tacky photo for the book cover.

[LibraryLover]

If I am going to read a book like that, I want denim jumpers (pinafores for you Brits) and braids on the cover.

 

That's just how I am.

 

I think we all need to remember that there is no shame in being poor, only dressing poorly.

 

OK, so that doesn't really apply here (although the author's choice of attire for the book cover is as awful as her hair and makeup,) but it's one of my favorite lines from Zorro, the Gay Blade and I hardly ever get the chance to use it.

 

Seriously, if I ever write a book and put my face on the cover, remind me that Glamour Shots may not be the best place to find a photographer.

 

It sounds like the author was trying to appear intelligent and professional, and she ruined the whole thing by choosing that tacky photo for the book cover.

[LaxMom]

Thanks for the link, Melissa -- I just ordered it. :001_smile:

 

I did, too. :D

[laughing lioness]

I've read it, along with the mom's latest book. It's not a path I'd choose but it seems to have worked well for them. It was interesting to read up on what the kids are doing now. A number of them are working at a family-owned mortgage company.

:iagree:Another look at a family that is very intentional and very focused about what they are doing and how they are doing it (like Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother).

Not our cuppa, but a good read.

[LibraryLover]

I've read it, along with the mom's latest book. It's not a path I'd choose but it seems to have worked well for them. It was interesting to read up on what the kids are doing now. A number of them are working at a family-owned mortgage company.

 

 

Really? That's sort of a bummer.

 

I can't explain why, really. I guess I want some braniac kid to be writing Story of the Ancient World, or teaching English at a good college.

 

She looks like she might be a really good real estate agent, so maybe that works well.

[LaxMom]

Really? That's sort of a bummer.

 

I can't explain why, really. I guess I want some braniac kid to be writing Story of the Ancient World, or teaching English at a good college.

 

She looks like she might be a really good real estate agent, so maybe that works well.

 

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! choke. cough. snort.

[Shellers]

Anyone read this? The Kindle edition is free right now. (link)

 

Thanks for the info! I've thought about buying the book, but free is better. :)

[EducationX2]

That's very interesting.

I guess.

 

I don't think I want my child having a master's degree at 16. I don't think I want my 12, 13 year old on a college campus. I know there are online schools, but I'd like DD to experience "college." It might sound a little silly, but one of the very few things I sort of, kind of, just a little bit feel like I missed out on by having DD so young is the typical college experience. You know, dorm life, going out all night, barely staying awake in class because I'm so hungover.... :D

 

And the funny thing is, I hope to graduate her early. From high school. I'd love her to graduate at 16 or 17 and have a gap year to travel or volunteer.

[Laura Corin]

I imagine a masters is just as useful at 16 as 36. Either the applicant is qualified and makes it through the interview process or they aren't, yes? :001_huh:

 

 

Certainly in the UK if you have a masters (in a vocational subject like business) it will be assumed that you will be managing others within a very few years. If you start looking for jobs with a masters at the age of 16, many companies will just not call you for interview, because putting a 19yo over much older employees would be socially so difficult. If you come out with a masters at 24 and take on management responsibility at 27 then it is socially easier.

 

I'm not saying that this is how it should be, but employers look at more than qualifications. They look at the whole person and how s/he fits into the organisation.

 

Laura

[Kelly1730]

Yes, the cover photo is, ummmm, interesting. Thumper rule;) That said, thanks for the link. Not our philosophy but I always like to read about other homeschool families and their personal experiences.

[Reeciecup]

Her updated photo hasn't changed much.....

http://www.amazon.com/Alexandra-Swann/e/B003IY0PE6/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1

[Carrie12345]

Thanks! I just snagged it.

 

I can't imagine trying to follow that path with my kids, but I'm sure there must be some positive and encouraging tips in there.

 

When I look ahead at some late high school materials, and even when I test out some free college courses for myself, I notice I need to put on my "more mature" thinking cap. ;) When I look at my 10yo dd, or even my 14yo ds, I can't imagine their emotional maturity and logic/rhetoric skills speeding up enough to get the full impact of those courses anytime soon. They are "advanced" in certain areas, but there's a separate, natural progression I wouldn't want to mess with.

[homeschoolally]

Share many of your sentiments about the books. Yes, they were laser-focused. I'm all for acceleration, but one thing what really stuck with me about their methods is that there wasn't flexibility--from what I recall they used straight Calvert and it was expensive.

 

Good read though, especially if you can get it for free! I like the mom's book as well. I wouldn't use their methods for our family but I enjoyed reading about them.

[snowbeltmom]

I haven't read the entire book, but imo, the high school program is extremely weak. I don't know how successful a student would be today come college application time graduating high school with the following transcript:

Understanding English I

Understanding English II

American Literature I

English Literature I

Biology (lab or non lab)

Psychology

U.S. History

Government

Essential Mathematics

Algebra I

Plane Geometry

Plus 5 electives ranging from courses in business to automotive design.

 

The author spent 18 months completing this program and received her high school diploma. No foreign language, no math beyond geometry, only 1 science class:confused:

[K&Rs Mom]

And now I will go to the incredibly shallow, cupcake punchy place and ask: What on earth possessed her to put that hair on the cover? Has she not had a photo taken since 1985?

 

That was my first thought too. But one of the (5-star) reviews criticizes her choice of a s@xy photo for the cover. :001_huh:

[melbotoast]

That was my first thought too. But one of the (5-star) reviews criticizes her choice of a s@xy photo for the cover. :001_huh:

 

:lol: Off to read the reviews.

 

ETA: I agree the cover is probably the one negative about the book, but not for that reason!

Edited August 11, 2012 by melbotoast

[DawnM]

I downloaded it since it is free, however, I have no desire to have my kids earn even college degrees by 16.

[Kathryn]

I've read it and actually considered implementing her approach, however.....

 

I simply DO. NOT. BELIEVE that the kids who were educated using this approach had significant advantage over kids who were schooled more slowly. IMO, for MY family I just prefer a "slow and steady wins the race" rather than "4 hours every day go, go, go". I stand by a previous opinion of mine that, again, IMO, a teenager with a Master's degree just isn't as ready to make decisions/work out in the world as a 20-something with a Master's degree, all things being equal.

 

I also believe that just because you CAN do something that quickly doesn't mean that you SHOULD do something that quickly.

 

 

When I look ahead at some late high school materials, and even when I test out some free college courses for myself, I notice I need to put on my "more mature" thinking cap. ;) When I look at my 10yo dd, or even my 14yo ds, I can't imagine their emotional maturity and logic/rhetoric skills speeding up enough to get the full impact of those courses anytime soon. They are "advanced" in certain areas, but there's a separate, natural progression I wouldn't want to mess with.

:iagree:

[mommaduck]

I don't have an Amazon acct. Would anyone be willing to send this to me (I'll have to see if Calibre can convert it).

[mommaduck]

I haven't read the entire book, but imo, the high school program is extremely weak. I don't know how successful a student would be today come college application time graduating high school with the following transcript:

Understanding English I

Understanding English II

American Literature I

English Literature I

Biology (lab or non lab)

Psychology

U.S. History

Government

Essential Mathematics

Algebra I

Plane Geometry

Plus 5 electives ranging from courses in business to automotive design.

 

The author spent 18 months completing this program and received her high school diploma. No foreign language, no math beyond geometry, only 1 science class:confused:

Many people (including myself) graduated with no foreign language and only one math class (two, if you include accounting).

[elegantlion]

I haven't read the entire book, but imo, the high school program is extremely weak. I don't know how successful a student would be today come college application time graduating high school with the following transcript:

Understanding English I

Understanding English II

American Literature I

English Literature I

Biology (lab or non lab)

Psychology

U.S. History

Government

Essential Mathematics

Algebra I

Plane Geometry

Plus 5 electives ranging from courses in business to automotive design.

 

The author spent 18 months completing this program and received her high school diploma. No foreign language, no math beyond geometry, only 1 science class:confused:

 

That wouldn't gain admittance to our state schools. It is way below current minimums.

 

I think it's playing with definitions of "high school". Maybe that was the minimum back then.

 

In our state we are required to do 1000 hours per year (core and non-core). According the Department of Education's website, I can technically count a credit at 100 hours. So, technically we could do 10 credits per year (although not very well). The state required credits are 24, our local high school is 28. So technically he could graduate in less than 3 years and we would be following the law. If we counted high school work done in 8th and worked through the summer he could be done in less time.

 

That, however, does not meet our end goal. So it looks very "wow" when I think about how I want to approach high school, but unrealistic for our goals and his current college choices. He'd never get in with a transcript like that.

[PrairieSong]

Assuming that all the classes listed are one full year, that is only 16 credits! When I graduated in the stone age (1979) we had to have 20 credits to graduate. It looks pretty light even by older standards.

 

That wouldn't gain admittance to our state schools. It is way below current minimums.

 

I think it's playing with definitions of "high school". Maybe that was the minimum back then.

 

In our state we are required to do 1000 hours per year (core and non-core). According the Department of Education's website, I can technically count a credit at 100 hours. So, technically we could do 10 credits per year (although not very well). The state required credits are 24, our local high school is 28. So technically he could graduate in less than 3 years and we would be following the law. If we counted high school work done in 8th and worked through the summer he could be done in less time.

 

That, however, does not meet our end goal. So it looks very "wow" when I think about how I want to approach high school, but unrealistic for our goals and his current college choices. He'd never get in with a transcript like that.

[mommaduck]

Assuming that all the classes listed are one full year, that is only 16 credits! When I graduated in the stone age (1979) we had to have 20 credits to graduate. It looks pretty light even by older standards.

I graduated in '94 and the school district with the highest required credits was 19 or 20 credits. I think our school district was 17-18 credits. It varies from state to state and even school district to school district.

[Murphy101]

I haven't read the entire book, but imo, the high school program is extremely weak. I don't know how successful a student would be today come college application time graduating high school with the following transcript:

Understanding English I

Understanding English II

American Literature I

English Literature I

Biology (lab or non lab)

Psychology

U.S. History

Government

Essential Mathematics

Algebra I

Plane Geometry

Plus 5 electives ranging from courses in business to automotive design.

 

The author spent 18 months completing this program and received her high school diploma. No foreign language, no math beyond geometry, only 1 science class:confused:

 

Many people (including myself) graduated with no foreign language and only one math class (two, if you include accounting).

 

Yes. That was very much the norm or average for high school in the 80s and mid90s. I graduated with no foreign language, one earth science, and one personal finance course. And I was no where near the bottom of my 1000 something graduating class. My last two years of high school, weren't even at the high school for 1/2 the day. I went to computer programing tech school for the other 1/2.

 

Unless you showed an aptitude in maths and science and a desire to pursue that in college, if you showed a desire to attend college, then it was deemed unnecessary to insist on more maths and sciences.

[Ravin]

I think if we were going to do an accelerated schedule, I'd wait until my child was 8 or so to start formal schooling. That way developmental leaps that often require slower pacing with younger kids aren't as much of an issue, and they can relax and enjoy their childhood longer.

 

I really wish I'd done that with DD.

[snowbeltmom]

Unless you showed an aptitude in maths and science and a desire to pursue that in college, if you showed a desire to attend college, then it was deemed unnecessary to insist on more maths and sciences.

 

While that was true back in the '80's at some schools, I don't think that is the norm at a typical high school today. I don't think a student today, following the plan in the book, would gain admittance to college with that transcript.

[Murphy101]

one thing what really stuck with me about their methods is that there wasn't flexibility--from what I recall they used straight Calvert and it was expensive.

 

:001_huh: It's a matter of perspective, yes?

 

You see inflexibility.

 

Many others see that she didn't curriculum bounce, which there is much positive to recommend. Many home schoolers choose what they feel is best and simply stick with it.

 

You see inflexibility, but truth is there isn't much flexibility for most kids k -12 in this country. They use what the school says and that's it. Extraxurriculiars are completely based on parental income and desire to fund it. Most kids don't get much flexibility in their classes (and never in materials) until high school. And with so many required courses now, that might be only one class or two.

 

Just another POV to consider.

[Mommy_of_4]

I haven't read the entire book, but imo, the high school program is extremely weak. I don't know how successful a student would be today come college application time graduating high school with the following transcript:

Understanding English I

Understanding English II

American Literature I

English Literature I

Biology (lab or non lab)

Psychology

U.S. History

Government

Essential Mathematics

Algebra I

Plane Geometry

Plus 5 electives ranging from courses in business to automotive design.

 

The author spent 18 months completing this program and received her high school diploma. No foreign language, no math beyond geometry, only 1 science class:confused:

 

I graduated in 2006 and I didn't take any foreign language and I stopped math in 10th grade, Geometry. I think I only took 2 science classes in high school. I am now completing my Bachelors degree so it didn't affect me at all.

[snowbeltmom]

:001_huh: It's a matter of perspective, yes?

 

.

 

:iagree:

Also times were so different back then. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to homeschool without the internet. Choices for homeschoolers back then were much more limited.

[mommaduck]

:iagree:

Also times were so different back then. I can only imagine how difficult it would be to homeschool without the internet. Choices for homeschoolers back then were much more limited.

:iagree: She would have had Calvert or Abeka or ATI. I think Calvert was a very good choice if she wanted to buy strictly from one company.

[elegantlion]

Assuming that all the classes listed are one full year, that is only 16 credits! When I graduated in the stone age (1979) we had to have 20 credits to graduate. It looks pretty light even by older standards.

 

I graduated in 1985, just after the stone age ;), and it would have been light in our district as well. I actually graduated a semester early and still met the guidelines with no credit from 8th grade. I think you had to have 2 science credits and 3 math, although I'm not sure. I took minimum in those for sure. Our rural small town district has 4 more credits than the state requirement.

 

It does vary by state, but I don't think 16 is the minimum in any current state. There was a link at some point on the high school board that showed minimum requirements by state. I have no idea which thread though. IIRC, 18 was minimum I saw.

[melmichigan]

I read both books. I was not impressed from an educational standpoint. I thought the course work was very weak, we aren't talking high expectations here. It came across as more of a get it done philosophy to me. Put all the kids around the table for a set number of hours a day, for a set number of days each year, and let them teach themselves through the material, with Mom available for questions if needed. It reminds me of Robinson to some degree, but even he had higher standards when it came to content.

 

I thinks it depends on what you want out of an education for your DC. I could have let my oldest DD do something like this, she was on track for it. I decided that there is so much more available for her to learn and enjoy before she graduated and moves out into the world. We recently finished another discussion on educational choices with her, graduate young with an average transcript, or graduate with age peers with a much more competitive transcript and time to explore her passions. She took the second option.

Edited August 11, 2012 by melmichigan

[AdventureMoms]

Yes. That was very much the norm or average for high school in the 80s and mid90s. I graduated with no foreign language, one earth science, and one personal finance course. And I was no where near the bottom of my 1000 something graduating class. My last two years of high school, weren't even at the high school for 1/2 the day. I went to computer programing tech school for the other 1/2.

 

Unless you showed an aptitude in maths and science and a desire to pursue that in college, if you showed a desire to attend college, then it was deemed unnecessary to insist on more maths and sciences.

 

I wonder if it varied by state? Or maybe it changed rapidly around the mid-90's?

 

I graduated in 1999. For a college bound student, the minimums were: 3 years math (usually up to, but not including, PreCalc), 3 years science (biology, earth science, chemistry), 2 years foreign language, 4 years English, 4 years Social Studies, 2 years Phys Ed, plus a smattering of random half credit stuff (home ec, shop, health, music, art, keyboarding).

 

I took quite a lot more, as did most students who planned to go to more rigorous colleges (ie not the local CC). 4 years each of math, science, and foreign language were considered pretty standard for maximizing college/career opportunities. That is my goal, for my children.

 

That said, I don't get the impression that maximizing college and career choices was the main goal for this family. I haven't read the book yet, so I can't really speculate what it was.

 

The notion that they only used one (very well regarded) curriculum doesn't bother me at all. I like to switch things up and try new things, but I don't think it's necessary to get a good education. Plus there were a lot fewer choices in the '80's!

Edited August 11, 2012 by AdventureMoms

[snowbeltmom]

I was not impressed from an educational standpoint. I thought the course work was very weak, we aren't talking high expectations here. It came across as more of a get it done philosophy to me. ...

I thinks it depends on what you want out of an education for your DC.

:iagree:

 

With today's standards, I wonder how many of the credits would be deemed high school level today? I also wonder what the first two years of high school English entailed, since it looks like the student did not study literature until 11th grade?

 

Times were different back then, and the mom did an amazing job with the resources available. I just don't think a student could follow that plan today and get the same results.