Night Elf Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 My dd20 met a very nice young man. They met on Mother's Day at a fine dining restaurant where he works. Her stepmom went gah-gah over him and kept hinting at my dd. DD gave her number to this guy. She went on her 2nd date with him last night. On the first date, they talked about what they might be looking for in a relationship. She learned he was 29 yrs. old and had never been married. They both talked about how they are looking for "that special one" for marriage and family. Besides working as a server in the restaurant, he is a youth pastor and is very involved in his church. He didn't seem to mind that my dd wasn't really a churchy type of person, and she did share she was baptised in the Catholic faith and did first communion and confirmation. Obviously she has never had an immersion baptism. He didn't talk to her about it specifically. Last night, on the second date, he told her he didn't kiss as he believes it is intimate and that should be saved for marriage. He also admitted he has kissed girls before and that this was a new thing for him. Her stepmom, who has been extremely excited at every bit of news about this young man, has totally changed her opinion of him at this new bit of information. I am not as bothered, but I do share the same concern in that i'm wondering if this is part of his church's belief. What does she do next? What does she ask him? We are not a religious family. She told him she was open to hearing what he believes and what he can share. Basically she agreed to let him witness to her. That's not a bad thing. But if the no kissing thing does have something to do with his church, what else might there be that she should be aware of? We're trying to come up with questions for her to find out more. She does have the website to his church and I looked at their beliefs. They are an interdenominational church, but I can't tell if they are a planted church or something entirely independent. I guess that's the first thing she should ask. I want to be able to look up more information beyond what is on their website. They are an outreach church and have stats posted as to how many people they have witnessed to and how many have been saved. She said that as much as they have talked, both in person and on the phone, he doesn't come across as preachy. He told her his faith was extremely important in his life, but he hasn't said anything about her. I'm not saying this guy looks bad. I just want her to know what to ask as she gets to know him better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'd be careful - he may be "missionary dating". FWIW, I'd want some answers as to his exact beliefs and expectations in the relationship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle My Bell Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I would be concerned as well. If he is so strong in his faith, then I would think he would want a girl who was as well. I consider myself a strong christian, but sometimes people start using the christian faith as a way to start making radical rules in their lives. Then they start to use these rules as their own form of "salvation". Sounds like this guy is wishy washy to me. He makes a strong stand on kissing, but not on dating a girl of his own faith? Strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I would be concerned about the long term commonalities in this relationship. If they continue dating, does he expect her to be a part of his church? Is she comfortable with that expectation? From my experience there would be a level of expectation placed on her as well should this become a permanent type relationship, ie marriage. It wouldn't be my dh is a youth pastor and I don't attend church, that would be awkward for him. Even though it may be that HE is the pastor, it seems married pastors are expected to operate as a team, almost like a two-for-one deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Beth, What does she think of him, outside of what her stepmother or anyone else thinks? Does she feel pressured? Is she at a stage in her life that she is comfortable with herself and willing to be witnessed to? How does she feel about the age difference and where he is at in life? You sound as though you have misgivings. Is your mom instinct uncomfortable? Why? I have looked at too much dysfunction over the last year, so my perception may be clouded, but this feels like a "move with extreme caution" situation. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 He makes a strong stand on kissing, but not on dating a girl of his own faith? Strange. :iagree: It sounds like he's figuring some things out for himself, too. I don't see anything wrong with that as long as he's honest about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'd be careful - he may be "missionary dating". And what is that? :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'd be careful - he may be "missionary dating". I had to look that up. I have never heard that term. I would be concerned as well. If he is so strong in his faith, then I would think he would want a girl who was as well. This is definitely one of the things that has me concerned. Even though it may be that HE is the pastor, it seems married pastors are expected to operate as a team, almost like a two-for-one deal. I said that very thing to her. I can't imagine a pastor of any kind being married to someone who didn't want to go to church. I also told her that if she married him, she would be making a lifelong committment to his faith because it would hurt him, both personally and professionally, if she ever lost interest in religion. Beth, What does she think of him, outside of what her stepmother or anyone else thinks? Does she feel pressured? Is she at a stage in her life that she is comfortable with herself and willing to be witnessed to? How does she feel about the age difference and where he is at in life? You sound as though you have misgivings. Is your mom instinct uncomfortable? Why? I have looked at too much dysfunction over the last year, so my perception may be clouded, but this feels like a "move with extreme caution" situation. :grouphug: First, she isn't sure what to think. She's very drawn to him because he's very attractive and they talk for hours without running out of things to say. She says she feels comfortable around him. She has never shown too much of an interest in religion. Her stepmom/dad forced her into communion and confirmation when she explicitly told them she didn't want to do it. She did help me teach VBS at my Baptist church and enjoyed being there, but she never attended services or an educational class of her own. Since meeting him, she's asking questions. I like that. I believe in God, but I have a different way of looking at things than most Christians I think. The age difference does not bother any of us. I married her dad and he was 8 years older than me. There is an 11 year age difference between me and DH. My misgivings are tied to his faith being such an integral part of his life, as I mentioned above. Why has he never married? Why isn't he involved with someone who shares his faith which would seem important to someone like a youth pastor? He mentors young adults. She has a tendency to fall into whatever her boyfriend is into. When she dated someone who loved rock and roll, she loved rock and roll. When she dated someone who was vegetarian, she became a vegetarian but got tired of it after a while. When she dated someone who liked to play video games, she got very involved with video games. She doesn't have anything that is personally hers to share with someone else. She falls easily and gives her heart completely. She's been hurt, truly and deeply hurt, several times. She knows I see things differently from her because I'm older and I'm her mom, so she isn't quite convinced that these things are bad. I'm not saying they are bad but I wish she believed more in herself as a person and not feel so strong that she has to be part of a couple to be someone. BTW, she does know I'm asking on the board about this. I'm not talking behind her back. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Since he does seem to want to take things slowly she should have time to figure out if there is something there. I've heard of a few couples who met and were not on the same page immediately in terms of beliefs. Sometimes something happens to change that, sometimes it fizzles out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onceuponatime Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 And what is that? :001_smile: When I was a teen, a guy I had a crush on admitted that he broke up with girls so often because his father had a rule that if he couldn't get them in the church within 3 months he couldn't continue dating that person. This is why I had my crush long distance and did not give in to temptation, even though I went to the same church with him already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I would not be so concerned that he is 29 and never married. He may be careful, he may have devoted a lot of time to education, etc. Better to choose wisely than to rush into something just because you are of a certain age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 When I was a teen, a guy I had a crush on admitted that he broke up with girls so often because his father had a rule that if he couldn't get them in the church within 3 months he couldn't continue dating that person. This is why I had my crush long distance and did not give in to temptation, even though I went to the same church with him already. Ahhh. Really, Christians continue to surprise me - and I consider myself one. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 My misgivings are tied to his faith being such an integral part of his life, as I mentioned above. Why has he never married? Why isn't he involved with someone who shares his faith which would seem important to someone like a youth pastor? He mentors young adults. I would not be concerned about a late 20s guy who has never married. I was 29 (and never married) when I met my now-husband, 30 when we got married. I was okay in my own skin, ready and willing to wait for the right guy that God brought into my life (even though I sometimes thought that day would NEVER come). Especially if he's a youth pastor, it may be he's had problems meeting single gals who were NOT under his sphere of influence. I would be more concerned about why he chose your daughter if you are sure your daughter does not share his faith and is not interested in doing so. Because something does seem off there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth S Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 If I were you & your dh (which I am not), I would be looking at the church's website, and maybe she and one parent consider attending a service at the church. I'd consider having him over to the house, in an INFORMAL way (outside, maybe grilling burgers--NOT him!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 And what is that? :001_smile: From my experience {I went to a church as a teen that endorsed this idea}, Missionary dating is dating for the sole purpose of converting the person you are dating {and often their family too} to a particular church or branch of Christianity. Normally within a month or two of converting the person they were dating, the relationship would fizzle and the person doing the missionary dating would move on to a new prospective convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I would be concerned as well. If he is so strong in his faith, then I would think he would want a girl who was as well. I consider myself a strong christian, but sometimes people start using the christian faith as a way to start making radical rules in their lives. Then they start to use these rules as their own form of "salvation". Sounds like this guy is wishy washy to me. He makes a strong stand on kissing, but not on dating a girl of his own faith? Strange. The bolded is what stands out to me. I hope my boys adopt the 'no kissing before marriage' stance. However, that is not NEARLY as important to me as them making sure any girl they court is a born again Christian. I'd encourge your dd to get to know the young man better if she wants to, but to keep asking questions and keep her eyes wide open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 From my experience {I went to a church as a teen that endorsed this idea}, Missionary dating is dating for the sole purpose of converting the person you are dating {and often their family too} to a particular church or branch of Christianity. Normally within a month or two of converting the person they were dating, the relationship would fizzle and the person doing the missionary dating would move on to a new prospective convert. How despicable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frugalmama Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 How despicable. I totally agree, which is a big part of why I quit attending that church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love_to_Read Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'd check out the other women in the church. Look for signs of legaslism, and sign of subservience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Well, I forgot to mention that their very first date was her birthday dinner with her dad, stepmom, and sister. They all had a great time. He really likes them all. When they were out last night, I phoned to ask her about an ETA so I would know whether or not to stay up so I could turn the alarm on. BTW, she has absolutely NO problem with my phoning her while she's out. She can be in a crowd of people and have no problem saying 'I love you Mommy!' on the phone before hanging up. He told her he was very impressed that she had such a great relationship with her parents. Originally, seeing how much fun they were all having on Mother's Day is what drew his attention. He was their server when her dad took the family to a high falootin' fancy dining restaurant (my choice of sillly words) where they obviously didn't know the correct manners. He was tickled when her stepmom pulled a caffeine free diet coke out of her purse and asked him if he could just get her a glass of ice. He laughed, took the can with him, and brought their drinks on a nice platter with her can sitting next to her full glass. Anytime he would come by to check on them, he would pour more of her can into her glass. He said it was refreshing after the usual more formal crowd the restaurant draws in. He does want to meet me and DH (her stepdad). He believes family is very important and he likes that she is close to all of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 She has a tendency to fall into whatever her boyfriend is into. When she dated someone who loved rock and roll, she loved rock and roll. When she dated someone who was vegetarian, she became a vegetarian but got tired of it after a while. When she dated someone who liked to play video games, she got very involved with video games. She doesn't have anything that is personally hers to share with someone else. She falls easily and gives her heart completely. She's been hurt, truly and deeply hurt, several times. She knows I see things differently from her because I'm older and I'm her mom, so she isn't quite convinced that these things are bad. I'm not saying they are bad but I wish she believed more in herself as a person and not feel so strong that she has to be part of a couple to be someone. :) :grouphug: Sigh. We have lived this and as parents it is so hard to watch. Sending positive thoughts for both of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) I can well understand how someone with a strong faith is drawn to someone outside of it. I come from a line of staunch Confessional Lutheran women who marry guys who are not and who then ended up becoming so. I don't defend it, but it seems to be our pattern. I believe that it's not best, but doggone it, sometimes you do fall in love outside your original circle. Having said that, I hope that my own daughter breaks that regrettable pattern. They sound to me like they are building a very cool relationship. I think it's reasonable to let it go on and see where it develops. The no kissing thing is very possibly a private conviction that this guy is trying on for size, and not necessarily a teaching of that church, and it's nice in that it gives them the space to build a true friendship and not necessarily get involved ahead of their ability to commit to each other. However, I have only seen it expressed in line with a very patriarchal view of marriage and family, but it's starting to catch on beyond that circle. Watchful waiting would be my byword on that issue. I think that missionary dating is despicable and completely unworthy of the Gospel of Christ. And that is CERTAINLY not what my family did--rather, one after the other, we fell in love with guys that were not CL and without bugging them about it simply continued to attend our own churches, and eventually, thankfully, without argument or any pressure, they found these appropriate for themselves as well. It didn't have to end up that way, and I am grateful that it did, knowing that I personally was at a spiritual low point when I got married, and that God was good to me in spite of me rather than because of me, as He so often is. Edited May 25, 2012 by Carol in Cal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeckyFL Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 My thoughts.... she is 20 years old so she is an adult. If she were dating someone with a criminal record or someone with a history that made you afraid for her in some way, I think it would be reasonable to interfere. In this case, I think all of this should be left to them. Sometimes you have to let them be adults and 20 is definitely an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 He makes a strong stand on kissing, but not on dating a girl of his own faith? Strange. :iagree:Most of the devoutly religious people (of any religion) I know prefer to date others who share their faith. It's not unheard of though, for people of different faiths to fall in love. I have a cousin who dated her now-husband for 8 years because they cared very much for one another but could not work out their religious differences; something that was very important to both of them. She did end up converting to his faith, but it was definitely not a rash decision on her part. I'd say talk to your dd about your concerns, but ultimately she's going to have to be the one who decides if they'll continue to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 My thoughts.... she is 20 years old so she is an adult. If she were dating someone with a criminal record or someone with a history that made you afraid for her in some way, I think it would be reasonable to interfere. In this case, I think all of this should be left to them. Sometimes you have to let them be adults and 20 is definitely an adult. Oh no, I'm not interfering. She sat with me as I typed that post and is seeing the responses. She asked my thoughts and opinions, and since she knows about how helpful this board is, we decided together to post. I'm not suggesting she date or not date him. That is for her to decide. However, it is my opinion that she go slowly because each time they talk, something new for her pops up that just takes her by surprise. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask questions since they've already talked about things like marriage and family interests. He obviously isn't looking for a casual dating situation. He told her very clearly that he is looking for a serious relationship. We're just not used to that. I'm not saying that it is bad. I just want her to be aware that he is not like the very young adults she has been dating who just want to have fun and hang out and that the subject of marriage is always met with a wide-eyed surprised look. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evergreen State Sue Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 If this man wants to marry and he is a youth pastor, then he will want to be "equally yoked". I'm sure that his first consideration with your daughter will be that she is a Christian if they are to marry. If she doesn't want to pursue the christian faith and embrace it, then I would say she should not be dating him with the intention of possibly marrying him. Second to being a Christian, would she be comfortable with His church. He is at an age where he probably knows what he wants in a mate. Does your daughter? That would be my only concern about the age difference. This is a new relationship and so if it would lead to marriage, she should be very sure. That could take a couple of years. Would she at 22 be comfortable marrying a 31 year old? As far as he being 29 and not married, that would not be a concern for me if he probably has been waiting for the right life partner. Both my dh and I waited. He may find it hard to meet eligible women working primarily with the youth. I have never heard of missionary dating before, but I suppose that could be true. If dating is reserved only for finding a life partner, then I don't agree with missionary dating. But if the dating is for finding friendships, then I don't see anything wrong with sharing your faith and being with like minded people. Leading someone on with the wrong intentions is . . . well wrong! In general, this man seems very nice and respectable. I'm sure that is very attractive to your daughter. I hope she takes his faith seriously. Couples with different faiths have a much harder go of it. If she is open to embracing his faith, then fine. Just don't go into this relationship thinking you are going to change him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whereneverever Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Oh no, I'm not interfering. She sat with me as I typed that post and is seeing the responses. She asked my thoughts and opinions, and since she knows about how helpful this board is, we decided together to post. I'm not suggesting she date or not date him. That is for her to decide. However, it is my opinion that she go slowly because each time they talk, something new for her pops up that just takes her by surprise. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask questions since they've already talked about things like marriage and family interests. He obviously isn't looking for a casual dating situation. He told her very clearly that he is looking for a serious relationship. We're just not used to that. I'm not saying that it is bad. I just want her to be aware that he is not like the very young adults she has been dating who just want to have fun and hang out and that the subject of marriage is always met with a wide-eyed surprised look. :tongue_smilie: I think it's good you are looking at this carefully with her. I'd ask him if he could get married to someone who doesn't share his faith, and then ask your dd the hard question of if she is interested, for life, in being involved in church. Fwiw, I know quite a few pastors who dated outside the church and then married once she converted. It's a way to make sure they aren't exerting any influence over someone in their flock. A lot of pastors marry a little later, too, at least in our church its a lot of years of schooling! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Call me a bigot, but I'd wonder why a 29 year old was a waiter. I wouldn't cast him into the void, but it would make me look a little closer. His is a waiter putting himself through school, or is he a waiter to pick up chicks, or is he a waiter because he can't settle down. It would at least have to cross my mind. To quote an old Spanish saying: watch a suitor like a hawk; watch a husband with half an eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I would be wary of someone who decided that you were a perfect candidate for marriage based on being your family's waiter one evening. And yes I know those things came up after (or during?) the first date, but if that's what he's scouting for and he based it on observing her for a few moments at a time over an evening? I don't know all the details, of course, but since someone did bring up "missionary dating" (which I have heard of before) it sounds like he's interested in the whole family and sees an "in" with the pretty 20 year old. If she enjoys spending time with him then she should see where this leads, but I personally would be wary in this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I guess I am just an old stick in the mud, but they have been on all of what, two dates? Why are you marrying them off at this stage? I would suggest that she focus on discovering if he would make a good friend before trying to decide if he would make a good husband. Definitely explore the differences in religious beliefs, but also all the other things we look at when selecting friends. Find out how he handles stress, what he does when things don't go his way, is he nice to children and pets, does he embarrass you in public, does he value your opinion on things, do you feel lifted up after you have been around him? Meet other friends of his. See where he lives. What kind of movies does he like? The bottom line, get to know him as a friend before even considering him for a spouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 If my daughter met someone under those circumstances, and I learned the things you've learned, I'd give her advice to move on due to the sorts of cautionary impulses others are showing here. I don't think it's mainstream to avoid kissing before marriage-- that alone means to me that this church is likely to be fairly out there in terms of beliefs, and I think it's a good idea to find out whether a couple has chemistry before marriage. I would also be worried about possible beliefs as to female subservience, and the whole nine yards.* There are plenty of fish in the sea. Of course, if she disregarded the advice, I'd let it be from that point on unless I had cause for further concern. She is an adult. * Do you care to share the church's website? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I would be wary of someone who decided that you were a perfect candidate for marriage based on being your family's waiter one evening. And yes I know those things came up after (or during?) the first date, but if that's what he's scouting for and he based it on observing her for a few moments at a time over an evening? I am also reminded of how often I saw people get burned with "the faster he pursues, the faster he disappears". I've also seen the 16-20 (and older!) crowd get swept off their feet by a "perfect" guy, in manners AND on paper. They are seduced and abandoned. If he seems **too good to be true**, he probably is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 From my experience {I went to a church as a teen that endorsed this idea}, Missionary dating is dating for the sole purpose of converting the person you are dating {and often their family too} to a particular church or branch of Christianity. Normally within a month or two of converting the person they were dating, the relationship would fizzle and the person doing the missionary dating would move on to a new prospective convert. I need a jaw-dropping in disbelief icon. How cruel, ugly, and arrogant. Call me a bigot, but I'd wonder why a 29 year old was a waiter. I wouldn't cast him into the void, but it would make me look a little closer. His is a waiter putting himself through school, or is he a waiter to pick up chicks, or is he a waiter because he can't settle down. It would at least have to cross my mind. To quote an old Spanish saying: watch a suitor like a hawk; watch a husband with half an eye. Not a bigot, perhaps just experienced. But then I have to say that because the thought crossed my mind as well. I suppose being a youth pastor does not pay very much and waiting tables supports his calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mothersweets Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'd check out the other women in the church. Look for signs of legaslism, and sign of subservience. :iagree:and if she sees any (legalism), tell her to run as fast as she can in the other direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Call me a bigot, but I'd wonder why a 29 year old was a waiter. I wouldn't cast him into the void, but it would make me look a little closer. His is a waiter putting himself through school, or is he a waiter to pick up chicks, or is he a waiter because he can't settle down. ... or because his faith is his major focus, and the job is just for the money. Call me a bigot too, but I would want someone for my daughter who had some non-religious life goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I admit I'd be weirded out by the no kissing thing. Stuff beyond kissing, ok, but kissing? Geesh, I kiss my cat. :D That's quite a bit different than kissing someone of the opposite gender. I stopped my now-husband from kissing me on what turned out to be our first date. I said No because, even at age 29, I didn't want to be kissing just anyone. I wanted that to be something special between me and at the VERY least a serious relationship. My church said nothing about it. It was a conviction I had come to on my own. I didn't know for quite sure if I wanted the first kiss to be at the altar -- but I KNEW it wasn't on the first date. It impressed me greatly and told me a lot about my potential-husband material guy that he respected my wishes and didn't try to kiss me again until I was ready. (when we were properly engaged is what I finally came down to) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misidawnrn Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 She has a tendency to fall into whatever her boyfriend is into. When she dated someone who loved rock and roll, she loved rock and roll. When she dated someone who was vegetarian, she became a vegetarian but got tired of it after a while. When she dated someone who liked to play video games, she got very involved with video games. She doesn't have anything that is personally hers to share with someone else. She falls easily and gives her heart completely. She's been hurt, truly and deeply hurt, several times. This is what I would be worried about, honestly. He may be a great, handsome guy but if she is just going to follow him and his religion because she is great at following, she will either get hurt when he chooses the religion over her or she will lose interest and that will cause a rift. I am not saying that she might not just be converted to his faith and that isn't always a bad thing but if she is doing it because he is "great" and she is a follower, I would caution her. Ask her how she feels deep down at being a part of his faith. There is a reason the Bible says do not be unevenly yoked. We should choose a mate with similar likes and interests (and faith) that we have so we have more in common. When I met my DH he talked to me about God and I had previously been "religious" and went to meetings twice a week. I had a horrible life experience and blamed God, turned away from him, etc. I thought deeply about whether I wanted to be talked to about God. I came to the conclusion that I had a marriage with me being religious and my partner against it and that marriage failed. I had a marriage with neither of us on God's side and it failed. I then thought that maybe He was the missing link. I am happy to report that I am very happy in my marriage. Our church is just a plain Christian church and it doesn't really "light my fire" but there is a sureal sense of calm between myself and God (if that makes sense). My husband is a wonderful husband and father and I think that comes because he knows he needs to treat his wife like Jesus treated the people. So, she may just beable to change her thoughts on faith but it is something she needs to deeply think about and be very honest with herself. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momma2three Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I think there are plenty of reasons a 29 year old would be a waiter, especially given the economy, and the fact that youth pastors probably aren't rolling in the dough. I think that's a kind of unfair accusation to level at him. However, my spidey senses are tingling a little over the whole thing. I think the real issue is: I am also reminded of how often I saw people get burned with "the faster he pursues, the faster he disappears". I've also seen the 16-20 (and older!) crowd get swept off their feet by a "perfect" guy, in manners AND on paper. They are seduced and abandoned. If he seems **too good to be true**, he probably is. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 The only thing that concerns me is that your dd tends to immerse herself into her boyfriend-at-the-moment's lifestyle and interests, as if he has any kind of extreme religious beliefs, that would worry me. OTOH, if the guy isn't even into kissing, at least you probably don't have to worry about what they're doing when they're alone... :tongue_smilie: The age thing doesn't bother me at all, but at 29, I'd be wondering if he has better career prospects than working as a waiter. OK, I know that sounds snobby, but I'm just trying to be honest here. What is his educational and work background? Overall, if your dd is having a great time with the guy, I think she could do a lot worse, but I do wonder if she will get bored with him if she's used to less conservative men. (And there's also the issue of what he will think of her friends, and whether or not he will try to discourage her from being friends with non-religious people.) If you're uncomfortable about the religious aspect of things, I would suggest inviting him over and getting to know him a bit, so you can see if he tries to work his Christianity into every conversation or if he's heavy-handed about witnessing to you. Personally, I never dated a guy who didn't kiss on a date, so I would have found this guy to be very odd, and probably a little nerdy. I would not have been into the religious thing, either. I had nothing against men who went to church, but as soon as anyone started telling me I should attend with them, I was out of there in a flash. But I was always pretty independent and not particularly inclined to change my ways in order to fit in with a guy I was dating; it sounds like your dd tends to morph into her boyfriends' lifestyles, and based upon that alone, I would want to get to know the guy to see what's going on in terms of the religious stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but from my own experience (in ancient history when I was dating) a guy being very reserved about intimacy for religious reason might be a red flag for a confused sexuality and/ or hangups about sex. Even in this day and age some people who are gay try to force themselves to live/ date/ marry straight (think, Jim McGreevey) and your daughter shouldn't be his guinea pig if this is the case. OR, he could just have OCD-type hang ups that won't be obvious until he's married and no longer has an excuse to turn down sex. Of course he could be walking the straight & narrow and be a perfectly wonderful hetero guy, but if her "gaydar" picks anything up she should pay attention to it. Same if he seems uptight and cold about whatever limited physical affection they might have, like holding hands. If he doesn't seem frustrated by the "holding back" I would consider that a red flag. For instance, I once dated a very religious catholic man who wouldn't do more than kiss me and he was clearly VERY VERY frustrated lol. But if he doesn't show any signs of frustration I would be a little concerned. Just a little PSA from someone who has BTDT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I admit I'd be weirded out by the no kissing thing. Stuff beyond kissing, ok, but kissing? Geesh, I kiss my cat. :D Honestly, I would be weirded out by a 29 year old single man who didn't want "stuff beyond kissing." I'm not saying he'd necessarily be getting it, but it would seem strange if he didn't at least take a shot at it. :D I guess I never hung around with Good Christian Men. (But hey, they dressed nicely, drove nice cars, and were a lot of fun at parties and clubs, so that counted for something, right? ;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizzyBee Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Call me a bigot, but I'd wonder why a 29 year old was a waiter. I wouldn't cast him into the void, but it would make me look a little closer. His is a waiter putting himself through school, or is he a waiter to pick up chicks, or is he a waiter because he can't settle down. It would at least have to cross my mind. To quote an old Spanish saying: watch a suitor like a hawk; watch a husband with half an eye. It sounds like he's a waiter at an upscale restaurant, and sometimes you can make good money at those. At an expensive restaurant in our city, some of the waiters are 50 year old men who have worked there for years because they make a good living there. Also, he's not only a waiter, he's also a youth pastor. Some churches don't pay their youth pastors enough to live on, so they have to get second jobs that have enough flexibility that they can be in church when they're supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this, but from my own experience (in ancient history when I was dating) a guy being very reserved about intimacy for religious reason might be a red flag for a confused sexuality and/ or hangups about sex. Even in this day and age some people who are gay try to force themselves to live/ date/ marry straight (think, Jim McGreevey) and your daughter shouldn't be his guinea pig if this is the case. OR, he could just have OCD-type hang ups that won't be obvious until he's married and no longer has an excuse to turn down sex. Of course he could be walking the straight & narrow and be a perfectly wonderful hetero guy, but if her "gaydar" picks anything up she should pay attention to it. Same if he seems uptight and cold about whatever limited physical affection they might have, like holding hands. If he doesn't seem frustrated by the "holding back" I would consider that a red flag. For instance, I once dated a very religious catholic man who wouldn't do more than kiss me and he was clearly VERY VERY frustrated lol. But if he doesn't show any signs of frustration I would be a little concerned. Just a little PSA from someone who has BTDT. I'm glad you said it before I had to. :tongue_smilie: If it's truly a religious thing and is common in his church, that's one thing, but otherwise, I'd be wondering what was going on, too. It could be something as simple as him having been seriously burned in a relationship that had been based on s*x, and not wanting to repeat his mistake, but I did know two women who married "no s*x of any kind before marriage" types of guys, and they both turned out to be gay, so it's definitely a possibility. Please don't think I'm bashing men who have strong religious beliefs that don't permit things like kissing before marriage -- that's entirely different from what I'm talking about in my posts here. I'm just suggesting that the Guy in Question may or may not be that kind of man, and it's something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You've never seen me kiss my cat. :tongue_smilie: Of course I haven't. I have my browser set not to allow "that kind" of YouTube videos. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterflymommy Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'm glad you said it before I had to. :tongue_smilie: If it's truly a religious thing and is common in his church, that's one thing, but otherwise, I'd be wondering what was going on, too. It could be something as simple as him having been seriously burned in a relationship that had been based on s*x, and not wanting to repeat his mistake, but I did know two women who married "no s*x of any kind before marriage" types of guys, and they both turned out to be gay, so it's definitely a possibility. Please don't think I'm bashing men who have strong religious beliefs that don't permit things like kissing before marriage -- that's entirely different from what I'm talking about in my posts here. I'm just suggesting that the Guy in Question may or may not be that kind of man, and it's something to consider. And of course, someone coming from a very conservative background will have all the more reason to fight being gay. I would just have her pay attention to his frustration levels which she should be able to pick up on easily ;). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iucounu Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 You've never seen me kiss my cat. Of all the people on this site, you may be my absolute favorite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 The waiter thing wouldn't bother me so much, especially because it seems he is supplementing his passion. I'm just not sure I'd be into his passion. But I'd think he were hardworking AND kinda cool for pursuing something he loved that didn't pay much. I wouldn't have shared his passion, either. (And apparently, Beth's dd had better share it, because that's clearly the only passion she's going to be getting from this guy for a long time... ;)) As a parent, I would be concerned with his long-term financial prospects. I know it sounds mercenary, but doing something you love that doesn't pay the mortgage can put a tremendous strain on a relationship if both spouses aren't on-board with it. I know I sound like a horrible person, but money matters, particularly if Beth's dd is accustomed to a relatively high standard of living. Can people live on little money? Sure they can. But both partners have to be OK with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 And of course, someone coming from a very conservative background will have all the more reason to fight being gay. I would just have her pay attention to his frustration levels which she should be able to pick up on easily ;). Definitely. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justLisa Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 How do you not kiss someone you are in a serious relationship or even engaged to? :confused: I guess if it's something you really believe in, but it's something that I have never ever even though of. I guess I view physical relationship different since I am not Christian. But even when I WAS, like waaaaay back when I was younger and dating I didn't get that part. I mean, way back when, like when Jesus was around did they have a year long engagement and then a huge ceremony with a licensed whomever? I thought it was like "I want to marry you, or you will marry him, now go live together." Well, that's my condensed version:tongue_smilie:. I guess I would have waited if it was like that, however I wanted a white dress, all of our out of state family and a huge yummy buffet and a cake. We had a fairly small wedding and a short engagement by today's standards of only 6 months, but still that's along time in my book to not kiss someone! This was too much about me and off topic. Sorry. To the OP, I've met some pretty slick Rick's. It was between the ages of 16-about 22. I looked MUCH older than my age when I was a late teen so always dated older. I even dated a youth pastor when I was 19, everyone in our church swore they heard from God that we were destined, then he turned out to have an affair with this drama chick. He sounded EXACTLY as you descirbe. Same age. So much it is eery. Thankfully I was not the type to get so heartbroken, but rather pissed off LOL. And I was singing in the main congregation, and co-leading the youth worship after I went through their class thing that all leaders of any kind went through. Before I met him, I never went to church, though I guess I was Christian. I ended up telling them I would not be there for a few weeks, and later on the pastor, and other heads of the church wanted to know why I did not return and meet with me, so I told them. It was a pretty bad ordeal for them all. I totally left the church all together and decided religion is a huge scam. Just giving perspective from someone who has apparently lived as your DDs twin many years ago! Now that I think about it, it gives me chills to think of how similar this situation is. Just be careful. I don't know how you would really get to know him other than attend his church, and have him over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I have been doing a lot of thinking about this. OK, not really, but I've thought about it a little. And the only way we can know for sure whether or not this guy is good enough for Beth's dd is this... We need to see a picture of him in a kilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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