Would you give $ to this student? Help me think through this, please

[ChristineW]

If you can afford it, I'd contribute a nominal amount. It's not the kid's fault that his family could pay but doesn't. Would you feel differently if he came from a family with a low income? There's nothing wrong with graciously declining either, but if I truly liked the kid I'd help him. DH does legal work for several engineering firms and the big contracts are for public works in India and China. If I were that kid, I'd do everything in my power including beg to go on that trip. I can't emphasize how big a break the opportunity is for this kid. It's not like a trip to visit the museums in France or the ruins in Greece--this is his ticket into the big firms.

 

I agree with PP who suggested that you stop visiting for nice dinners with $200 bottles of wine if you resent their lifestyle choices.

[mom2scouts]

No, I would not contribute. My own son is an engineering student/German minor at an expensive private college. We do not and cannot afford to help him with his education at all (except we do co-sign loans) so he has to work and take out loans. Last summer he wanted to go to Germany and take a class and then stay and travel around Europe. He worked as much as possible and saved enough money to pay for the entire trip himself. If I expect my own children to pay for their own trip, I would certainly not help the child of a family that appears to financially able to help him.

[SJ.]

I would not contribute.

 

first - not super close friends, not family. I consider it tacky that this was even sent out as a solicitation for funds.

 

the boy isn't contributing $4,000 to going to India - the university is. He doesn't need to do a study abroad to become an engineer. so it's not like this will hold him back if he doens't go. his father doesn't care enough to cough up the money, and apparently the boy doesn't want to include this in his student loans - which he could do, but isn't.

 

:iagree: with all of this.

 

Coming back to say - we are talking about a grown man, not a disadvantaged child. I find this request extremely inappropriate. If studying abroad is necessary for his future success and very important to him he can either use his student loans or get another type of loan to finance the trip.

 

I look forward to reading the other responses give later today.

Edited April 11, 2012 by SJ.

[Rebecca VA]

Sorry to keep coming back here, but I can't get over this thread!

 

If I were that boy, having to humble myself to ask for donations, I would be SO resentful of my parents. Every time I went home and looked at that expensive wine collection, I'd want to smash it. I wouldn't want to hear about the trips to Disney World. What I would be thinking is: "I'm part of this family, and you won't lift a finger to help me! You indulge yourselves and force me to BEG other people for money! I'm working hard and doing everything I need to do to get a good education, and you force me to air my financial hardship in public while you party it up!"

 

Cynthia, if I were you, I'd find a way to help that boy out, preferably without his parents knowing about it. He needs some compassion. His parents are disgusting.

[jujsky]

There is no way I would contribute to that, but that's probably because I paid for MY own college, so why would I pay for someone else, who is not my kid, to go to some fancy travel-abroad program when I could never afford to do that in college? No way. If the parents don't want to pay for it, then it's distasteful of them to pass that burden onto their friends. Very, very tacky.

[Jennifer3141]

Yes, ma'am, it sure IS your business. I'd just tell Dad, "You know, we've considered what you have told us about not paying for your children's educational costs, like this one, and think you have some good points. I'm sure you don't want US usurping your position here by paying for your kid's educational trip instead of him paying for it so we are not going to overstep those boundaries. If it were my own kid, I'd probably pay educational trip costs, but that is your business."

 

Something like that. He can't have it both ways. What a guy!

 

 

This is the perfect response. Wow. This dad is tacky beyond belief!!!!

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Not in those circumstances, no.

[AuntieM]

Not a dime.

[mytwomonkeys]

If you can afford it, I'd contribute a nominal amount. It's not the kid's fault that his family could pay but doesn't. .

 

:iagree: i'd give something. sounds like a great opportunity for the kid. even if i only donated $35, that's a step closer for him.

[Pippen]

 

Coming back to say - we are talking about a grown man, not a disadvantaged child. I find this request extremely inappropriate. If studying abroad is necessary for his future success and very important to him he can either use his student loans or get another type of loan to finance the trip.

 

Or take a semester off to earn the money to study abroad.

 

No, I wouldn't contribute. I wouldn't want to be part of sending a message to a capable young adult that if he wants to do something he can't afford, then he can just ask around and the cash donations will magically appear courtesy of people who have worked hard for it.

 

Now if his course of study abroad included some kinds of humanitarian or missions work, I'd contribute.

[jujsky]

Another thought -- you said he is an engineering student? Why does he have a job only earning minimum wage? When DH was in college, he went after any internship with software companies he could get. He not only gained valuable experience that put him head-and-shoulders above many of his graduating classmates when he was out looking for work, but engineering internships are generally paid positions. He should put some initiative in to get a paid internship. He might even be able to work it out with a local engineering firm that they front him the money for the trip, and he will do an unpaid internship for them when he returns.

[Unicorn.]

If it were his senior year, I probably would, and call it a graduation gift. But for freshman year, no. I feel sorry for the kid. Most people who live like that are in debt up to their eyeballs ime.

[yvonne]

If he simply asked for money in his letter, no, I absolutely would not contribute.

 

If he offered any services in exchange that we could actually use, I might try to "hire" him for that. Tutoring? Babysitting? Yard work? Web site help? Graphics? Bike tune ups/repairs?

 

A much better lesson in humility or self-sufficiency, if that's what his parents are trying to teach him, would be to have him offer services in exchange for the money.

 

Or perhaps the parents should suggest that he ask for loans?

 

There's no excuse for a healthy young man to just out-and-out ask for money without offering to help somehow in return.

[LisaKinVA]

If I had the money, I would. While it is admirable for a student to work to earn it all themselves, that isn't always possible. I worked three jobs during my summer breaks from college. I worked opening shift at one McDonald's, went home, showered, changed and walked to the other McDonald's to work the closing shift. On Saturday's I worked all day at a Christian bookstore with my mom, and on Sunday, I worked alternating shifts. There were no breaks, and very little "fun" time. Those summers, I earned the balance of what I needed to cover my room and board -- but I still had to work 20 hours (usually opening shifts) at Chick-fil-A in the mall, McDonald's or the school cafeteria to make ends meet for the rest of the year.

 

Am I "proud" of what I did? Yes. Although, I think I worked too much. I did three things (other than eat and sleep) as a student: I debated. I studied/went to class. I worked. There were no football games (after I quit the band my freshman year), no ice skating, no parties, no "hanging out with friends," not really any down time...until my last semester when all of my friends were crunched for time.

 

I put myself through college, there was no money for luxuries, and no one I could really ask anyway. I do expect my children to do their part to get into a good school -- and do their part while they are IN school. We'll figure out where, and the financing of it together.

 

So, yes. If a kid I know pretty well had been working hard, had essentially a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to do something and he needed to raise some extra cash to do it -- and God has seen fit to provide me the funds to assist -- I would.

[Jane in NC]

Yes, really. Most recently, we gave £50 to the son of one of DH's cousins towards a trip to South America. This probably most commonly happens among friends and family with whom there is a long tradition of mutual support and generosity in all kinds of material and non-material ways. When we posted off the cheque to DH's cousin's son it was with fond memories of all the favours and gifts bestowed on us by the boy's parents and grandparents. If I were in the OP's situation, I would simply feel fortunate to be in a position to be generous to someone who had the misfortune of having a parent with such questionable values. YMMV as they say.

 

Cassy

 

Many students around here solicit for "missions" trips which are little more than glorified vacations with a day or two of community service. It is not unusual for participants to solicit donations for these trips or to tip heavily at the "free" car washes held to fund these ventures.

 

That said, I have had several family members participate in international educational projects run by non-profits. The students raise funds for these trips via tax deductible contributions to the sponsoring foundation.

 

But more often than not I give some unsolicited cash to young people who are traveling. One young lady we know is in France as I write. I sent her $50 for extra spending money.

 

 

Sorry to keep coming back here, but I can't get over this thread!

 

If I were that boy, having to humble myself to ask for donations, I would be SO resentful of my parents. Every time I went home and looked at that expensive wine collection, I'd want to smash it. I wouldn't want to hear about the trips to Disney World. What I would be thinking is: "I'm part of this family, and you won't lift a finger to help me! You indulge yourselves and force me to BEG other people for money! I'm working hard and doing everything I need to do to get a good education, and you force me to air my financial hardship in public while you party it up!"

 

Cynthia, if I were you, I'd find a way to help that boy out, preferably without his parents knowing about it. He needs some compassion. His parents are disgusting.

 

Yeah, it is terrible to penalize the kid because he has jerky parents.

[ocelotmom]

If the son had emailed from his own account, I'd consider it. I have a lot of sympathy for college students whose parents can afford to pay but don't - it really limits the student's financial aid options.

 

But the fact that it was sent from the father's account effectively means the parents are asking, regardless of who wrote the actual email, and that's not right.

[In the Rain]

Geez - super tacky! I like Tranquil's response.

"We would not want to interfere with the lesson you are teaching your children..."

Feel sorry for the kid too.

 

:iagree:

[Hoggirl]

I had no idea I would get such a large response!

 

You all have given me much to think about. My general, initial thought was "tacky," as many of you have said. I agree that it would be completely different if the e-mail had come directly through him rather than through his parents' e-mail. I know the parents know since he requests checks be made out either to him or his parents! I keep wondering what will happen to my check if he doesn't earn enough! Cashed and thrown into the coffers for more wines???

 

I like the idea of hiring him to do something. I don't, however, think it's workable. He requested the $$ by April 30th, and, he is still in school until then.

 

I, actually, also thought the idea of forgoing the wine was a good one! Unfortunately, we are never the only other couple in their home partaking. Neither do they gift us bottles. If they did, I would definitely suggest they sell the bottle and use the $$ for his trip. And, I am having to honestly examine whether I am "resenting" the parents' behavior as someone suggested. I have to muddle that over.

 

I totally agree with the poster who said that the ds must feel awfully resentful. And, he (the oldest ds), also went on the Disney cruise last spring break (when he was a high school senior). So, it's not like the family singles him out like a red-headed stepchild (my apologies to those with red hair - just an expression!!!) and is mean to him. What I think will be interesting to see is what happens as the other children get older and what they do with their college funding. There is a pretty big gap between child #1 and the others. And, they have acknowledged that some of the others aren't going to have the academic ability that ds #1 has. Ds #1 managed to cover all his college costs with scholarships.

 

But, I totally agree with the disconnect about asking friends of parents to pay. It didn't feel "right" to me when I read it, but I am glad I could run it by the hive! I always get so many different insights. And whether I agree with all of them or not, I always leave thinking broader.

 

Still don't know if we will contribute or not. I plan to talk to dh about it tonight. I may do it in front of ds just so he knows how good he has it! :lol: Just kidding - well, maybe. :D

[ChristineW]

I had no idea I would get such a large response!

 

You all have given me much to think about. My general, initial thought was "tacky," as many of you have said. I agree that it would be completely different if the e-mail had come directly through him rather than through his parents' e-mail. I know the parents know since he requests checks be made out either to him or his parents! I keep wondering what will happen to my check if he doesn't earn enough! Cashed and thrown into the coffers for more wines???

 

I like the idea of hiring him to do something. I don't, however, think it's workable. He requested the $$ by April 30th, and, he is still in school until then.

 

I, actually, also thought the idea of forgoing the wine was a good one! Unfortunately, we are never the only other couple in their home partaking. Neither do they gift us bottles. If they did, I would definitely suggest they sell the bottle and use the $$ for his trip. And, I am having to honestly examine whether I am "resenting" the parents' behavior as someone suggested. I have to muddle that over.

 

I totally agree with the poster who said that the ds must feel awfully resentful. And, he (the oldest ds), also went on the Disney cruise last spring break (when he was a high school senior). So, it's not like the family singles him out like a red-headed stepchild (my apologies to those with red hair - just an expression!!!) and is mean to him. What I think will be interesting to see is what happens as the other children get older and what they do with their college funding. There is a pretty big gap between child #1 and the others. And, they have acknowledged that some of the others aren't going to have the academic ability that ds #1 has. Ds #1 managed to cover all his college costs with scholarships.

 

But, I totally agree with the disconnect about asking friends of parents to pay. It didn't feel "right" to me when I read it, but I am glad I could run it by the hive! I always get so many different insights. And whether I agree with all of them or not, I always leave thinking broader.

 

Still don't know if we will contribute or not. I plan to talk to dh about it tonight. I may do it in front of ds just so he knows how good he has it! :lol: Just kidding - well, maybe. :D

 

Another thought. You could always loan the kid some money and have him pay you back after the trip. Or if there is something valuable he could bring you back from India--my son's former preschool teacher was from India and she always took friends eyeglass prescriptions with her when she went home b/c she could get popular frames and prescriptions for under $40.

 

BTW, scholarships for trips abroad were highly competitive when I was in college. I imagine they still are so I'd factor in that he "earned" the 4k the school is contributing since he wouldn't qualify for need based aid.

[Denise in Florida]

Yes - possibly. If this was someone I normally give gifts to such as a niece or close friend's child, I would give them the monetary equivalent of whatever I usually give, somewhere around $25. I would tell them this was their early Christmas/Birthday/Whatever gift.

 

If I knew of any scholarships/grants/contests that they would qualify for I would email them the information.

 

I would and have offered chores for pay to neighborhood kids who are trying to fund a trip. So if this young man has any skills (and time) you need, maybe you could offer to trade cash for car work or computer work.

[bettyandbob]

No, I would not contribute.

 

I do consider study abroad an important part of an education. I value my education. I value my dc's educations. I will do whatever I can to help them get an education.

 

I hear parents say "I paid for my education, I'm not paying for my child's" all the time. This young man's parents do not value his education. Why should I value it? It's sad. It sounds like the family is in an income bracket that disqualifies him from low interest student loans. It appears the father has a great disconnect in how much college costs have skyrocketed since he went to college. When I was in college it was possible to work your butt off in the summer and earn most of the year's college expenses at the universities in my state. I went to a school where expenses totaled 5K--it was the most expensive state university in the state. My siblings went to a school where total expenses were 3K for a full year. When I say total expenses I mean tuition, room, food plan, books, lab fees, and cheap entertainment (movies/pizza). These same universities are over 20K for tuition and room. Forget eating, books and other incidentals. Wages at jobs for college students have not gone up at the same rate.

 

I'll bet this young man will be resentful. I'll bet mom and dad end up paying for younger siblings when they don't perform well enough to get merit scholarships. I know a few people who as oldest children paid for themselves and then watched mom and dad pay for younger children -- they are resentful.

[eternalknot]

Yes, really. Most recently, we gave £50 to the son of one of DH's cousins towards a trip to South America. This probably most commonly happens among friends and family with whom there is a long tradition of mutual support and generosity in all kinds of material and non-material ways. When we posted off the cheque to DH's cousin's son it was with fond memories of all the favours and gifts bestowed on us by the boy's parents and grandparents. If I were in the OP's situation, I would simply feel fortunate to be in a position to be generous to someone who had the misfortune of having a parent with such questionable values. YMMV as they say.

 

Cassy

 

I like your post, Cassy.

 

It's exactly how I feel, and it's representative of my circle as well.

 

I have a younger sister in college. It's not uncommon for her to use my email account to share special pictures, schedules, news, or whatnot - I have everyone's addresses, etc. whereas her contacts are typically her childhood or day-to-day friends (not the extended family or family friends). It's like me using my dad's address book for graduation announcements or wedding invitations. That's not something to read into, IMO.

[NanceXToo]

No way. I would NEVER set a precedent of contributing toward the college education of other peoples' offspring. I imagine it'll be hard enough to contribute toward my own kid's college education, should they choose to go. I am astonished that his parents allowed him to ask other people, especially outside of the immediate family, for money for this. I can see if it was for charity or a fundraiser where they'd be getting something out of it, or if he was offering to work for it, but to just flat out ask people who aren't even related to help pay for his college education? Wow.

 

I wouldn't do it. And I'm not sure I'd be able to stop myself from writing his father with a small piece of my mind on the subject, either.

[JFSinIL]

Will those parents pony up money for one of YOUR kids when they need it for college? No? Then tough beans.

 

Study abroad is not mandatory, anyway.

[stripe]

Parents told their ds when he started to college that they would not pay for his college education. This is because the husband's family did not pay for his college education.

 

Did the father's parents' friends pay, then?

 

This whole thing is just bizarre.

 

I think I'd have a hard time being friends with someone who wanted to reenact all the ways they'd been harmed, neglected, or treated in any less than stellar way, with their kids. Some of these kids might call their parents bluff by saying, "Fine, I won't go to college, then. I'm joining a convent."

[Jane in NC]

 

I think I'd have a hard time being friends with someone who wanted to reenact all the ways they'd been harmed, neglected, or treated in any less than stellar way, with their kids.

 

That sums it up, doesn't it? :iagree:

[gardenmom5]

Working for money is a humbling experience.

 

Missing out on a great opportunity because you simply can't afford it is also a humbling experience.

 

Wealthy Daddy sending an email to his friends asking for money isn't humbling for the son. It's tacky. It's embarrassing. It's resentment-inducing. But humbling? No.

 

.

wealthy daddy sending e-mail soliciting funds so he doens't have to fork over the money or the son take out another student loan is sense of entitlement buiding . . . . that is not humbling.

[bettyandbob]

this thread reminds me of something said to me years ago. I'm not sure if it's true:

 

Rich people don't pay their bills, they get others to do it for them. That's how they get and stay rich.

 

This seems to be the behavior this family is striving for.

[Mommyof4ks]

This child has a job, right? Does he work just to pay for college or does he actually get a pay check (student work at school or job at McDonalds)? If he has student work, then I would likely help him even if his daddy is rich, but if he has a job where he could save the money himself, then no I would not.

 

Daddy is rich, not the son. He cannot expect his dad to pay for anything, and if his dad is being a pain about it, then he will have to figure out how to get to India himself. He likely cannot get a loan for the trip at this point unless the school offers some special loan, because he has no credit and the finacial aid period is over. I just feel bad for the son, because his dad is being ridiculous and it is not the boy's fault. Studying abroad and opportunities like that are valuable to young people for more than just their career (he will se how others live and have different customs). Call me the oddball, many do. :D

 

Be sure to be a soft place for this young man to fall when his resentment of daddy boils over someday.

[TranquilMind]

:iagree:

 

 

-The parents *can* help their kid.

-They *won't* help their kid.

-But they think *you* should help their kid.

 

:001_huh: WEIRD :001_huh:

Good summary.

 

Yes, very weird.

 

I love it how someone else feels entitled to put his own obligation onto ME these days. That's they way things are going these days. Anathema to my parents' WW II generation.

[Impish]

No way on this green Earth.

 

What is w/the begging issue? Sheesh!

[MistyMountain]

I had to take out loans to pay for college. My parents couldn't afford to help. I wasn't even going into a well paying career. I think it is very tacky to ask for money and I would of never asked people for money for school. I would not give money to a well off kid who parents refused to pay for school who was going into a good paying career. He can get loans.

Edited April 13, 2012 by MistyMountain

[TranquilMind]

Working for money is a humbling experience.

 

Missing out on a great opportunity because you simply can't afford it is also a humbling experience.

 

Wealthy Daddy sending an email to his friends asking for money isn't humbling for the son. It's tacky. It's embarrassing. It's resentment-inducing. But humbling? No.

 

These threads bewilder me.

Totally agreed. There is nothing humbling about hitting up family friends for money for an expensive extra. This kid isn't asking for a roof over his head or his next meal. He wants to go on a trip his family will not support but want others to support. Ridiculous.

[FiveOaksAcademy]

I wouldn't. Anyone who has the money to spend $200 on a bottle of wine can pay $3900 for their child's education. Someone's priorities are off, IMO!!!

 

We recently received a written request to contribute to a child's intercontinental trip that was NOT education related. It was an opportunity for said child to participate in something she had won the right to do through an extracurricular. Missions is pretty much the only reason we will contribute to this type of thing.

[justasque]

~ I would not contribute. His parents did not see fit to, why should I? It's not as if he's said "my parents are going to be able to pay half, and I need to earn the other half", IYKWIM.

~ He's a freshman. His contribution abroad will be more valuable once he has some experience under his belt.

~ I. would. be. mortified. if my child asked our friends for money for a luxury like this. The student will have many other opportunities for this kind of thing, especially as he gets more schooling under his belt. If his grades are good, he ideally will get well-paying internships for the next two summers (post-sophomore and post-junior years), and a well-paid job thereafter.

~ In my experience, in cultural groups where extended family helps with this kind of thing, the family of origin also contributes (which is not the case here), and the child may inform extended family about their trip/milestone but does not come out and ask for money (again, not how this was handled).

Edited April 15, 2012 by askPauline