s/o why marriages end... companionship/feeling attractive

[Janie Grace]

A couple of the things in the why marriages end thread struck me and I want to hear your thoughts. First of all, let me make the disclaimer that I am 100% committed to dh. He is an amazing husband and dad and I cannot imagine life without him, nor would I want to.

 

Someone mentioned that for women, we often get weary with the disappointment that marriage doesn't hold the companionship we had hoped it would. This resonated with me. Dh and I talk often, but I don't get the feeling he is eager to hear/know me and to share his inner life with me (the way it used to be when we were dating). We aren't "best friends" in an I-can't-wait-to-tell-him-all-about-this kind of way. He's my best friend in that he's my priority relationship. I do keep him in the loop, but I don't get the sense that he is excited to know all my thoughts, and sometimes that makes me sad. It is lonely to feel "together alone" -- you know, sitting in the same room but each in our own world (computers, reading, whatever). It's cozy but deep down, I yearn for more.

 

Then there's the element of feeling s*xy, attractive, etc. Dh compliments me but it is so hard to receive. I don't know why. It's like his compliments bounce off me. I should be so grateful that he expresses attraction to me (even if he does do it in jokey, goofy ways). But when I notice a man I don't know give me a second glance or an appreciative smile, it is more ego-boosting. I hate this about myself.

 

I will never cheat on my dh and I will never leave him. But it bothers me that there are some of the elements of discontent/distance in my marriage. :( I want a passionate, intimate marriage. Any thoughts? Can anyone identify?

[BakersDozen]

My dh could relate to OP in that he is the one who feels "together alone" whereas I can relate to OP regarding the physical attractiveness. I have no answers and at this point I am resigned to marriage as I know it because nothing has changed for me over the years. I've read books, attended seminars/classes, prayed, talked to others and yet the feelings/issues remain the same. No compliment my dh gives me affects me other than making me feel even uglier (my body is no longer sexy and any comment that it is sexy makes me angry). I do not talk to my dh about anything if I can help it as he fancies himself a good communicator which, to him, means playing the devil's advocate and being negative about everything. Hence I avoid all conversation even for the most mundane things. When he stops being this way, I'll start talking again (and he knows that).

 

I love my dh and am totally committed to him - more so now than ever before because of things we have faced and overcome. Yet there are obviously areas of discontent/distance in my marriage and at this point rather than hoping for a more perfect relationship I have accepted that things are the way they are. This may not work for everyone yet for me it released me from disappointment and bitterness. We are not fighting and I'm not spending my days wishing for something more.

 

But when I notice a man I don't know give me a second glance or an appreciative smile, it is more ego-boosting. I hate this about myself.

 

 

I am this way as well and for this reason I avoid other men like the plague. Seriously, I won't make eye contact with other men unless they are old enough to be my grandfather. I do not talk to other men, never spend time with other men or joke with them in any way, etc. This is really extreme yet I went from "I'll never cheat on my dh" to pursuing an affair with a man who complimented me sincerely and who caught my attention more than I ever thought could happen (affair never happened, thank goodness). It happened so fast and was so out of control that I don't dare put myself in that situation ever again. I know my weakness and so avoid things that "feed" that weakness even to the extreme.

[Trilliums]

I can relate to some of the things in your post. My husband works long hours and comes home dead tired. We have had our share of dealing with feelings of appreciation or lack thereof. I definitely consider our relationship stable and loving though.

 

 

I want a passionate, intimate marriage. Any thoughts? Can anyone identify?

 

 

What if your DH felt the same way, and you found out? What would you do to try to help your marriage become more passionate and intimate for him? If you approach it this way, you may find ways to build your relationship kind of from the flip side. I repeatedly find when I make an extra effort (in almost any facet--from cooking his favorite foods to bed) he begins to reciprocate by becoming more attentive/appreciative. We cannot force them to change. We can change and try to gain the response we desire. OK< as I re-read this, it sounds slightly manipulative! I do not mean it that way at all. The more loving I act towards my family, the more lovingly they respond. Sometimes we have to let go of the grudges and maybe even apathy and find it in ourselves to offer that extra bit to let them know they are loved.

[Janie Grace]

I can relate to some of the things in your post. My husband works long hours and comes home dead tired. We have had our share of dealing with feelings of appreciation or lack thereof. I definitely consider our relationship stable and loving though.

 

 

 

 

 

What if your DH felt the same way, and you found out? What would you do to try to help your marriage become more passionate and intimate for him? If you approach it this way, you may find ways to build your relationship kind of from the flip side. I repeatedly find when I make an extra effort (in almost any facet--from cooking his favorite foods to bed) he begins to reciprocate by becoming more attentive/appreciative. We cannot force them to change. We can change and try to gain the response we desire. OK< as I re-read this, it sounds slightly manipulative! I do not mean it that way at all. The more loving I act towards my family, the more lovingly they respond. Sometimes we have to let go of the grudges and maybe even apathy and find it in ourselves to offer that extra bit to let them know they are loved.

 

Thanks, this is good. I think I do have apathy about it right now... I know that needs to change. Dh always seems to think things are fine. But I guess I can *imagine* that he felt the same and how I'd improve things...

[Janie Grace]

My dh could relate to OP in that he is the one who feels "together alone" whereas I can relate to OP regarding the physical attractiveness. I have no answers and at this point I am resigned to marriage as I know it because nothing has changed for me over the years. I've read books, attended seminars/classes, prayed, talked to others and yet the feelings/issues remain the same. No compliment my dh gives me affects me other than making me feel even uglier (my body is no longer sexy and any comment that it is sexy makes me angry). I do not talk to my dh about anything if I can help it as he fancies himself a good communicator which, to him, means playing the devil's advocate and being negative about everything. Hence I avoid all conversation even for the most mundane things. When he stops being this way, I'll start talking again (and he knows that).

 

I love my dh and am totally committed to him - more so now than ever before because of things we have faced and overcome. Yet there are obviously areas of discontent/distance in my marriage and at this point rather than hoping for a more perfect relationship I have accepted that things are the way they are. This may not work for everyone yet for me it released me from disappointment and bitterness. We are not fighting and I'm not spending my days wishing for something more.

 

I am this way as well and for this reason I avoid other men like the plague. Seriously, I won't make eye contact with other men unless they are old enough to be my grandfather. I do not talk to other men, never spend time with other men or joke with them in any way, etc. This is really extreme yet I went from "I'll never cheat on my dh" to pursuing an affair with a man who complimented me sincerely and who caught my attention more than I ever thought could happen (affair never happened, thank goodness). It happened so fast and was so out of control that I don't dare put myself in that situation ever again. I know my weakness and so avoid things that "feed" that weakness even to the extreme.

 

Thank you for posting. I PMed you.

 

I'm sorry you're having some of these struggles, too. I can understand why that kind of communication would be hurtful.

[LezliU]

I can definitely relate. My husband and I are committed to eachother 'til the end - marriage is never to be taken lightly. However, that doesn't mean it's easy (or even enjoyable!) all the time. A good marriage takes work.

 

I think a huge factor is how women communicate vs. how men communicate. We long for them to pour out all their innermost thoughts and feelings to us so that we "know" they trust us and love us, but that is not usually how a man communicates best. A man, on the other hand, probably expects us to show HIM love through physical intimacy. It takes sacrifice on both sides - ask him what you can do to make him feel loved, and then tell him what makes YOU feel loved - then do it. I do not enjoy physical intimacy near as much as my husband, but because I know it needs to be a priority for him, I try to make it a priority, too... and it improves our relationship a lot.

 

As far as receiving compliments from your husband, I understand... it is hard for me to receive, too. We THINK we are being modest/humble by not receiving it, but I honestly think that's a form of false humility (pride)... If your husband goes out of the way to tell you how beautiful you are, simply tell him thank you and give him a kiss. He most likely REALLY means what he says! We have got to remember that there are LOTS of women out there that WILL receive compliments from men - even our own husbands... so help your husband keep his guard up by receiving those compliments! How blessed we are to HAVE husbands that DO compliment us! :)

 

Praying for you - I understand it all. A really good book I've found a lot of wisdom in is Love and Respect.

 

Lezli

[WeeBeaks]

I do not talk to my dh about anything if I can help it as he fancies himself a good communicator which, to him, means playing the devil's advocate and being negative about everything. Hence I avoid all conversation even for the most mundane things. When he stops being this way, I'll start talking again (and he knows that).

 

 

This is my DH exactly. I wonder if it is a male thing. He never, and I do mean never, says he agrees, even if he does actually agree. He plays devil's advocate even if he agrees with me, so comes off sounding like he is trying to start an argument. He used to say it was because if he didn't I wouldn't know there was another side to it, so he had to show me the other side. :001_huh: I just keep silent as much as humanly possible.

 

We have had a lot of rough patches, still do. We continue doing the best we can.

[momto2Cs]

A couple of the things in the why marriages end thread struck me and I want to hear your thoughts. First of all, let me make the disclaimer that I am 100% committed to dh. He is an amazing husband and dad and I cannot imagine life without him, nor would I want to.

 

Someone mentioned that for women, we often get weary with the disappointment that marriage doesn't hold the companionship we had hoped it would. This resonated with me. Dh and I talk often, but I don't get the feeling he is eager to hear/know me and to share his inner life with me (the way it used to be when we were dating). We aren't "best friends" in an I-can't-wait-to-tell-him-all-about-this kind of way. He's my best friend in that he's my priority relationship. I do keep him in the loop, but I don't get the sense that he is excited to know all my thoughts, and sometimes that makes me sad. It is lonely to feel "together alone" -- you know, sitting in the same room but each in our own world (computers, reading, whatever). It's cozy but deep down, I yearn for more.

 

Then there's the element of feeling s*xy, attractive, etc. Dh compliments me but it is so hard to receive. I don't know why. It's like his compliments bounce off me. I should be so grateful that he expresses attraction to me (even if he does do it in jokey, goofy ways). But when I notice a man I don't know give me a second glance or an appreciative smile, it is more ego-boosting. I hate this about myself.

 

I will never cheat on my dh and I will never leave him. But it bothers me that there are some of the elements of discontent/distance in my marriage. :( I want a passionate, intimate marriage. Any thoughts? Can anyone identify?

 

I could have written every word of this. I wish I had some great advice for you, but I at least wanted you to know I completely understand and empathize with your feelings. I've been married 17 years now, and we do work to make it work. I too yearn for more, and maybe my dh does too, but the levels on which we'd each want more may be very different.

[Danestress]

I do keep him in the loop, but I don't get the sense that he is excited to know all my thoughts, and sometimes that makes me sad. It is lonely to feel "together alone" -- you know, sitting in the same room but each in our own world (computers, reading, whatever). It's cozy but deep down, I yearn for more.

 

 

I think even the most intellectually brilliant women have husbands who think, "Oh please, don't let her drone on and on again tonight about XYZ. How much do I have to pretend to be interested in order to have a good chance of bedding her tonight?"

 

Your thoughts, by and large, are mundane and unoriginal. Your feelings are, by and large, common and uninspiring. I can say that about you because it's true of every single human being. We don't have a lot of unique, fascinating thoughts and feelings. Even the greatest minds generally produce a few really great ideas in a lifetime.

 

My DH and I are pretty chatty with each other. It's amazing to me that we generally have something to talk about, because very little of it is really new. And if you listened in, you probably would be quite bored. We talk about his work, we talk about our kids, we talk about the news and politics (though this can get heated). He talks about art and I pretend to be interested. I gossip about the neighbors and he acts like he is listening, lol. In general, I would say that we have a much higher than average amount of discussion, and I would say that he seeks and values my opinion more than is common. But even so, I don't delude myself that I am going to be continually fascinating for 50 years.

 

I think the best most of us can hope for is to cultivate a mutual interest in interesting things, and to come along side each other in pursuing those interests. So if you enjoy the same hobby, are interested in the same fields of study, have similar careers, read the same books and discuss them, enjoy great art or music and hold that in common, you are lucky indeed. I guess I am saying that the spark and the fuel to keep those flames of interest burning generally have to come from OUTSIDE the marriage.

 

That might still leave you feeling lonely as you each pursue different things in the same room. But I guess the remedy for that, in my opinion, is to try to cultivate a few common interests, or to do something together you both like. Go for a walk, go see a movie, play scrabble online against each other, etc. We go through phases when there is a lot of this, and phases when there is a very little. When DH is preoccupied and withdrawn from me, I do find that interesting books are a great consolation and help weather those periods, as long as they do not last for months.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Danestress

[Janie Grace]

I could have written every word of this. I wish I had some great advice for you, but I at least wanted you to know I completely understand and empathize with your feelings. I've been married 17 years now, and we do work to make it work. I too yearn for more, and maybe my dh does too, but the levels on which we'd each want more may be very different.

 

Thanks. It helps to know others can identify. :grouphug:

[AnotherLinda]

Our church is offering this class right now. It may be worth checking into to see if there is one in your area. It is for couples who are committed but want to get back some spark. http://www.familydynamics.net/dynamicmarriage.php

[Bluegoat]

I think the idea that our spouse is our best friend, or ought to be, is a result of the way we handle coutship and marriage decisions. But I am inclined to think that friendship is not integral to marriage.

 

Marriage is meant, IMO, to be permanent, and it is really centered around family life and the oikos - day to day work, making a living, that sort of thing.

 

Friendship is largely about common interests, and it isn't always permanent, or at least often goes through times where it is less intense.

 

There is nothing wrong with combining the two, except that people sometimes worry about their marriage being bad when the friendship is in a less intense phase, or maybe doesn't exist at all. It can just be very difficult to keep up a friendship in a permanent way. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the marriage itself.

 

To me, it is very similar to the expectation that we will remain all romantic and infatuated for the whole time we are married - a few people do, but not the majority.

 

I would say there are a two real options: one is to find a renewed basis for friendship with your dh, and the other is to find a friend who is not your dh. It would also be entirely possible to try both.

[Janie Grace]

Some interesting replies on this thread, especially about changing expectations... namely, don't expect your dh to be interested in what you have to say (b/c you're not that interesting anyway) and don't expect to be/feel like friends all the time. I'm not sure if I'm ready to let those go. :(

[PeacefulChaos]

A random thought - is it necessarily a bad thing to feel a slight ego boost when receiving a compliment on our looks from a stranger? :confused: I guess I never saw it that way at all...a compliment is, to me, just a compliment. It does make me feel a little better about myself to get one. DH can't walk through the room (or I can't walk through a room he's sitting in) without complimenting me, so maybe because what I get from him is 100x what I would get from someone else?

[cottonmama]

As far as receiving compliments from your husband, I understand... it is hard for me to receive, too. We THINK we are being modest/humble by not receiving it, but I honestly think that's a form of false humility (pride)...

 

 

I disagree. False humility is when inwardly you agree with your husband when he says you're beautiful, but you say "no, I'm not" because you're supposed to. What the OP is dealing with (which I often feel myself) is feeling like your husband is telling you that because he's supposed to, and worrying that he's saying that even though he doesn't believe it. Or even accepting that he believes that, and feeling like he's wrong. There's no pride in feeling ugly. I suppose you could say there's pride in *wishing* to be/feel beautiful, but I don't think it's so much arrogance, but more a desire that springs from wanting an honest, intimate relationship with your husband. It is *right* to want that.

 

I have had to ask my husband to change the way he compliments me. Saying "you're the most beautiful woman in the world" actually means less to me than hearing "you're beautiful." Maybe you can have a conversation with him about what kind of compliments or attention from him would help you believe it more? For a while I felt like it wouldn't be meaningful if it didn't come from him, but at some point I realized that it wasn't going to change on its own, and I might as well ask him to communicate in ways that were more meaningful to me.

 

 

Our church is offering this class right now. It may be worth checking into to see if there is one in your area. It is for couples who are committed but want to get back some spark. http://www.familydynamics.net/dynamicmarriage.php

 

 

I've heard great things about these classes!

[DawnM]

Honestly, I love my Dh and he loves me, and we do talk, but he doesn't give me the responses I really want/need like a woman friend can.

 

I feel like if I tell him something emotional I get a fairly dead-pan response. He just doesn't get worked up over things like I do.

 

Recently I told him about our friend who just got a diagnosis of cancer. I wanted to really TALK to him. Instead I got a "oh, that isn't good" and really nothing else.

 

He often says he hears me on the phone with my girlfriends and he hears me tell them something and thinks, "Why am I learning about this by overhearing a conversation instead of her telling me directly?" But when I do tell him directly I get so little response that he isn't the first person I turn to many times.

 

So, I say he is my best friend in many ways, but emotional responses not so much.

 

Dawn

[cottonmama]

Some interesting replies on this thread, especially about changing expectations... namely, don't expect your dh to be interested in what you have to say (b/c you're not that interesting anyway) and don't expect to be/feel like friends all the time. I'm not sure if I'm ready to let those go. :(

 

I disagree with the posters who have this point of view. I guess expect isn't the word I'd use, but I think together you and dh *can* get to a point where he becomes interested in what interests you, and you *can* be each other's best friends. One piece of advice I remember from a marriage book is that ideally you should try to share most of your hobbies with your spouse, and try to avoid investing too much in hobbies that the other one isn't able/willing to invest in.

 

Have you told your husband the things you've told us here? That's where I'd start. Maybe he doesn't realize you feel this way.

[SailorMom]

I highly recommend - to everyone - even people with great, perfect marriages (do those exist???) The Five Love Languages.

If you haven't read it, give it a try. It is more helpful if both people read it, but even if only one person reads it it can help.

DH and I had a rough first 5 years of marriage before he read this book, and then gave it to me. Wow... what a difference it made and STILL makes..... I have never read or heard anything that has made such a difference in our lives together.

[DawnM]

I have read it. Good luck getting my Dh to read it.....he is just not the touchie feelie type and reading a book about how my love language is TIME isn't going to fix that.

 

Dawn

 

I highly recommend - to everyone - even people with great, perfect marriages (do those exist???) The Five Love Languages.

If you haven't read it, give it a try. It is more helpful if both people read it, but even if only one person reads it it can help.

DH and I had a rough first 5 years of marriage before he read this book, and then gave it to me. Wow... what a difference it made and STILL makes..... I have never read or heard anything that has made such a difference in our lives together.

[eternalknot]

I think it's an incredible lot to ask that one person meet all -or even most- of our needs.

 

I think it's an incredibly hard thing to reconcile, given the social expectations we see and sometimes internalize.

 

I think it's an incredible thing to recognize we're human, our partners are human, and that yes - sometimes we're not interesting, sometimes they're not interesting, and yes - there's a limit to how long any human can feign interest in something boring, even for the person they most love in the world.

 

I know this because I've had my 20th conversations about trains today, with my beloved child. It's not that he's not interesting, it's not that I'm not interested in his interests, it's simply that I don't share them. And that isn't so much a stain on our relationship as it is an indication that if I desired only to share everything 100% with someone else, ... that someone else becomes irrelevant.

 

I don't think you have to let go of the idea that you and your husband should be friends, or that he should be interested in what you have to say. Navigating those waters with respect to each one's tolerance level is important; give and take is what relationships are all about, right? But try to shed the idea that his one person can/should/will meet all -or even most- of your needs. It's an undue amount of pressure! If he's not meeting any of your needs, that certainly warrants a heartfelt conversation and work on everyone's part. But I encourage you to also take responsibility for your own needs.

 

If he's not interested in what you're saying, find a girlfriend who is. Or therapist. Or dog. Or friend.

 

If he's not interested in your hobbies, accept that different people like different things!

 

If you're in a rut, innovate your way out of it rather than wait for him to climb out and extend his hand to you. Or accept it for what it is - a seasonal lull in your relationship.

 

(((hugs))) It's hard when things are .... blah ... but it's also a normal flow for any and all relationships. I really, really like what Bluegoat has to say. That was a very insightful post, and I agree with it 100%.

[MHowell]

Your post is exactly where my marriage is right now. I wish I knew how to fix it, but it's a hard road. I've learned there are certain topics that he only needs the cliff notes on, and others that require longer debates. And of course, any time we disagree, we have a hard time discerning the 'I disagree with what you said', from 'I disagree with you', so they become arguments then end with one of us saying something along the lines of "I'm just not going to give you my opinion anymore'. We are trying to work on it, but it's not easy. I wish I had some great advice for you, but I can say you are not alone!

[MHowell]

We also read the For Couples Only books and they really helped.

[JennifersLost]

 

Someone mentioned that for women, we often get weary with the disappointment that marriage doesn't hold the companionship we had hoped it would. This resonated with me. Dh and I talk often, but I don't get the feeling he is eager to hear/know me and to share his inner life with me (the way it used to be when we were dating).

 

It is lonely to feel "together alone" -- you know, sitting in the same room but each in our own world (computers, reading, whatever). It's cozy but deep down, I yearn for more.

 

Janie, I think many women experience this and while it is difficult, maybe being able to take a step back and understand why this is, could help. According to what I've read, it is exactly this situation - this "being in the same room, but doing something different" - Parallel play, if you will - that really fulfills many men.

 

I know, I know, that isn't helping you right now, but think about it. Whenever you are in the house and your dh knows you are there, his world is right. Your very presence fulfills him. If you can forget your own frustrations for a moment, that's actually pretty sweet.

 

Now - what can you do for you?

 

1. You can realize that it is completely and totally okay for you to get your companionship needs met through friendships with women. That it's okay for you to relate to friends one way and husband the other. Make sure you get out of the house and do something with a friend at least once a week. Talk on the phone a couple of other times a week. Many women really need these kinds of friendships or life just isn't worth living. That's okay!!!!

 

2. Do things with your husband that make it easy to chat at the same time. Men don't like sitting and talking nearly as much as we do. But doing chores and talking, gardening and talking, walking or hiking and talking, and so on works much better for them.

 

3. When you do talk with your husband, don't look to process emotions with him, look for exchanges of information.

 

Hang with me here for a moment on this one, because it's important: women process and find the processing of their thoughts and emotions fun, soothing and interesting. Most men don't.

 

Not at all.

 

Save your real, deep, involved processing mostly for your women friends. It's way more fun doing it with them anyway. However, if you need help with a decision, bring that to your husband. They like making decisions!

 

Otherwise, steer topics to things you can remark on, rather than process. Let conversations be a sharing of information, rather than a dissection of feelings. Talk about movies you've seen, things you've read, stuff about the house, your family, people you know, etc.

 

 

Think of it this way; there are many ways in which the differences between men and women make the dynamics of your relationship exciting. If you can see the reality of your husband - he doesn't want to process feelings - maybe you can shift over to building the parts of your relationship that work well.

 

Just make sure your processing needs are being met somewhere with some good female friend! The parts of my life where I lacked close female friends have been the worst. I have a husband who will talk until the cows come home, but he's still no substitute for a minute point-by-point breakdown of an emotional issue with my best female friend.

[fischerl]

The Five Love Languages.

Wow... what a difference it made and STILL makes..... I have never read or heard anything that has made such a difference in our lives together.

:iagree: Great book!

 

I wonder if the reason some husbands seem negative and play "devil's advocate" is that this is their way of trying to fix something. I know many men are wired to be fixers and if they sense a problem in their woman's life they want to fix it. This was an issue early in our marriage, too, and it felt so discouraging, even soul-deadening. Not because I didn't want his help with problems, but because it came across as so negative and critical, like he was trying to fix ME. Eventually (after a few tearful confrontations, reading a couple of good books, and some time and maturity ;)), we both morphed toward compromise. I began to appreciate his intentions to help, including his analytical, logical thinking process, and he became more diplomatic with me.

 

On another note, I once heard a pastor share that he and his wife had come to realize that given their personalities, a fabulous, constantly invigorating marriage probably wasn't an option for them, and that a pretty good marriage (75%, he called it) was good enough. I agree with the poster who said that friendship and marriage aren't the same thing. It's great if they're combined, but if a husband and wife are not best friends, that doesn't mean they can't have a satisfying marriage. OTOH, it's certainly worth working toward! Shared hobbies is a great idea.

[Bluegoat]

Some interesting replies on this thread, especially about changing expectations... namely, don't expect your dh to be interested in what you have to say (b/c you're not that interesting anyway) and don't expect to be/feel like friends all the time. I'm not sure if I'm ready to let those go. :(

 

I think you are reading things that no one has said. i can tell you my dh is an interesting guy, and a worthwhile person. But there are any number of subjects that he loves that start to make me go glassy eyed:

 

boat-building materials, specifications, plans

recipes for reloading shotgun cartridges

HAM radio, antennas, wavelengths

NASCAR

most chemistry stuff

ruffed grouse

tying flies

cloud formations, solar weather

 

......and more.

 

He talks to me about them, sometimes, but not a lot - I tend to only give them half an ear as I mostly don't have a clue what he is talking about. That is ok - he talks to other people about them, or preferably, from his perspective, engages in them with other people.

 

I am pretty sure I bore him when I go on about theology or politics or education.

 

But that is ok too, and it doesn't mean that we are both uninteresting.

[snickelfritz]

Some interesting replies on this thread, especially about changing expectations... namely, don't expect your dh to be interested in what you have to say (b/c you're not that interesting anyway) and don't expect to be/feel like friends all the time. I'm not sure if I'm ready to let those go. :(

 

Maybe the answer is to find something new that you are both interested in. I think older couples who take up square dancing together have the right idea.;) When my major interests are reading and gardening and dh's major interests are football and golf and we've been married 16 years and he's got allergies and doesn't like plants and I'm past faking an interest in football to impress my date----it's time to find something we are both interested in. (ignore the run-on sentence:tongue_smilie:)

 

It doesn't mean either of us are boring....it means that we like different things and have listened to each other talk on "our" hobbies as much as a non-interested person should have to listen. So, I've tried taking up golfing with him. (epic fail). We're currently trying biking together.

Edited March 7, 2012 by snickelfritz

[Tarreymere]

Reading this thread makes me appreciate what I have with Dh even more. I'm not sure, though, exactly how our marriage became different or is able to stay different. I'll have to think on this. I don't think it's any one thing, but maybe a combination of things.

 

Maybe part of it is that he works a short 36 hour week in a field he loves and doesn't have the stress of a longer work week or an unpleasant job or unpleasant co-workers weighing him down. Maybe part of it is that we do have some interesting (to us) hobbies in common. Maybe part of it is that we are each other's third partner and we chose each other with some maturity that maybe we hadn't had with our earlier spouses (we were each widowed once and divorced once prior to meeting) and we knew we shared some key ideas about life and living because our lived lives demonstrated that. We each knew what we were getting. Maybe we've just learned to be nicer to each other because we've learned how much that matters over the long run. Maybe the worst of our rough edges have gotten worn down over the years. Maybe we just got lucky. I really don't know. I'm going to try to figure it out.

[Heather in Neverland]

I agree that a big thing is having something in common.

 

Dh and I work at the school together and it has done wonders for our relationship. We are in different departments so we don't see each other all day but we DO get to go to lunch together almost every day and more importantly, we are both focused on a common goal. We love our jobs and it is our "thing". We talk about it and dream about it together.

 

Also, we both love to read about and discuss theology. We also have interests that are separate from one another but having something in common is SO important.

[AuntieM]

I have read it. Good luck getting my Dh to read it.....he is just not the touchie feelie type and reading a book about how my love language is TIME isn't going to fix that.

 

Dawn

 

Does anyone know of a man ("diagnosed" by this book) whose primary love language *isn't* physical touch? Most everyone I've discussed this book with reports the same thing. Other things - acts of service, words of encouragement, etc - always seem to be secondary love languages.

 

Not saying it's a bad recommendation! But ime it has been more useful in my interactions with my children and friends other than my spouse.

[Rosie_0801]

Does anyone know of a man ("diagnosed" by this book) whose primary love language *isn't* physical touch?

 

Yes. My hubby's is words of affirmation.

 

 

Well I had a conversation about friendship with dh last night. Or at least we tried to. You know how, when we are younger, our parents tell us to look at our date's same sex parent to see how they're going to turn out? I'm not sure that's the best advice. I'm thinking it might be best to look at how they treat their friends. Last night I learned that dh identifies friends as people he likes seeing and has conversed with, when he shows up to work/recreation events. I found I couldn't describe my definition of a friend in a way he could understand and only managed to come up with an example that made sense 40 minutes later. It's no wonder I don't feel he treats me like a friend, when by my definition, he's never had one. And his definition of a friend is what I call 'a person I know.' This wouldn't be a problem, because some people are happy that way, except I feel he treats me the much the same way I treat my mother in law- a person I only deal with out of a sense of duty. I know he likes me far more than I like his mother, but I'm more of a practical than theory kinda girl. :p

 

Anyway, he decided he ought to read up on the philosophy of friendship. Hopefully there's some philosopher out in history somewhere that speaks his language coz if I ever knew, I've forgotten how. :001_huh:

 

Rosie

Edited March 8, 2012 by Rosie_0801

[UmMusa]

I really appreciate everythingi that's been shared here. I recognize my own marriage in bits and pieces of all of yours. I feel reassured with the world, now!

[Bluegoat]

Yes. My hubby's is words of affirmation.

 

 

Well I had a conversation about friendship with dh last night. Or at least we tried to. You know how, when we are younger, our parents tell us to look at our date's same sex parent to see how they're going to turn out? I'm not sure that's the best advice. I'm thinking it might be best to look at how they treat their friends. Last night I learned that dh identifies friends as people he likes seeing and has conversed with, when he shows up to work/recreation events. I found I couldn't describe my definition of a friend in a way he could understand and only managed to come up with an example that made sense 40 minutes later. It's no wonder I don't feel he treats me like a friend, when by my definition, he's never had one. And his definition of a friend is what I call 'a person I know.' This wouldn't be a problem, because some people are happy that way, except I feel he treats me the much the same way I treat my mother in law- a person I only deal with out of a sense of duty. I know he likes me far more than I like his mother, but I'm more of a practical than theory kinda girl. :p

 

Anyway, he decided he ought to read up on the philosophy of friendship. Hopefully there's some philosopher out in history somewhere that speaks his language coz if I ever knew, I've forgotten how. :001_huh:

 

Rosie

 

What about "The Four Loves"?

[Mom-ninja.]

I think even the most intellectually brilliant women have husbands who think, "Oh please, don't let her drone on and on again tonight about XYZ. How much do I have to pretend to be interested in order to have a good chance of bedding her tonight?"

 

 

 

This made me laugh. It is so very true.

 

Also, I heard a wise woman say once, "When you are the only naked woman in the room, you are the most beautiful woman that man has ever seen."

 

Bottom line is that a man who is excited about the possibility of getting lucky, does *not* see imperfections. A man doesn't notice cellulite or stretch marks or bOOks that are shaped like tube socks.

[Diane in CO]

This made me laugh. It is so very true.

 

Also, I heard a wise woman say once, "When you are the only naked woman in the room, you are the most beautiful woman that man has ever seen."

 

Bottom line is that a man who is excited about the possibility of getting lucky, does *not* see imperfections. A man doesn't notice cellulite or stretch marks or bOOks that are shaped like tube socks.

 

 

:lol: thank you! You made my day!!!

[Rosie_0801]

What about "The Four Loves"?

 

He hardly ever reads paper books, preferring online info, but I've known him to make an exception for C.S Lewis. I'll suggest it to him and hope he doesn't get hung up on the God stuff because this is supposed to be about MEEEEEEE! :tongue_smilie:

 

Bottom line is that a man who is excited about the possibility of getting lucky, does *not* see imperfections. A man doesn't notice cellulite or stretch marks or bOOks that are shaped like tube socks.

 

:iagree: What he's allowed to touch is waaayyyy more interesting than anything he isn't, heheh.

 

Rosie

[Mrs Mungo]

Does anyone know of a man ("diagnosed" by this book) whose primary love language *isn't* physical touch? Most everyone I've discussed this book with reports the same thing. Other things - acts of service, words of encouragement, etc - always seem to be secondary love languages.

 

Not saying it's a bad recommendation! But ime it has been more useful in my interactions with my children and friends other than my spouse.

 

My dh's is acts of service. Mine is physical touch.

[Debbie in OR]

Honestly, I love my Dh and he loves me, and we do talk, but he doesn't give me the responses I really want/need like a woman friend can.

 

I feel like if I tell him something emotional I get a fairly dead-pan response. He just doesn't get worked up over things like I do.

 

Recently I told him about our friend who just got a diagnosis of cancer. I wanted to really TALK to him. Instead I got a "oh, that isn't good" and really nothing else.

 

He often says he hears me on the phone with my girlfriends and he hears me tell them something and thinks, "Why am I learning about this by overhearing a conversation instead of her telling me directly?" But when I do tell him directly I get so little response that he isn't the first person I turn to many times.

 

So, I say he is my best friend in many ways, but emotional responses not so much.

 

Dawn

We are living parallel lives :)

[Retired]

This made me laugh. It is so very true.

 

Also, I heard a wise woman say once, "When you are the only naked woman in the room, you are the most beautiful woman that man has ever seen."

 

Bottom line is that a man who is excited about the possibility of getting lucky, does *not* see imperfections. A man doesn't notice cellulite or stretch marks or bOOks that are shaped like tube socks.

 

:lol::lol: They may make a comment when your dressed but once the clothes are off they just don't notice.

 

I can't remember the comedian but I'll paraphrase what he said "I don't know why women spend so much money on primping and stuff. The men really don't care cause if you notice women have always been having babies even when they didn't shave and only took a bath once a months;) We men are simple creatures."

[tex-mex]

:lol::lol: They may make a comment when your dressed but once the clothes are off they just don't notice.

 

I can't remember the comedian but I'll paraphrase what he said "I don't know why women spend so much money on primping and stuff. The men really don't care cause if you notice women have always been having babies even when they didn't shave and only took a bath once a months;) We men are simple creatures."

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Love it!!!

 

(And sadly, soooo true! :D)

[Joyofsixreboot]

Lots of truth here, amusing or otherwise. I became much happier when I gave up some " idealized" vision of marriage and what I'd like my husband to be and worked with the marriage we have. We've got different love languages, different temperaments, different interests but we do enjoy each other's company, have history, common goals, a shared sense of humor and lots of attraction. Not much practical there, but I guess I've been much happier since I adjusted me vs him.

[Danestress]

Ok Eeyore...:lol:

 

Maybe that sounded negative. But I think I have a lot of affection and intimacy in my marriage. I think recognizing that my thoughts and feelings are really only interesting when I am thinking about things that are, themselves, interesting to the people around me is a good thing. I can handle getting older, gray haired and fatter. But I don't want to be boring, especially to my DH. A little talk about our relationship, curriculum choices, and the mundane problems of the day goes a long way. At some point, if talking makes you feel intimate (which more women feel than men) you simply need to work on making the talk really engaging.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know, I just don't feel that way. I could not adjust to the idea that my husband didn't turn out to be the person I thought I married. This is not to say that things don't wax and wane, but that I realized that all along he has been acting interested in what I had to say because he really just wanted to have sex with me...um no.

 

Maybe it has something to do with the way we met and the time we spent before we married. We met online and talked A LOT. For years. Sometimes for hours a day. One would think there would be nothing left to talk about, but no we still talk about everything all the time.

 

It's not that we are interested in all the same things. We aren't. And there are times we listen to each other talk about stuff we aren't particularly interested in. Heck, I listen to him talk about stuff I don't even understand (what he does at work...I know nothing about software engineering). A good friend listens though. And a friendship won't last if it is all one sided.

 

Then again, we can be content just playing cards and not saying much.

 

I don't see anything unrealistic about my expectations. This is not to say we never work at it.

 

I think that if someone is pretending to be interested to have sex with you, that is bad. I suspect the thought process that people are thinking about is like "this is the person I love, I'd like to have sex with her, but first i have to listen to her talk about her relationship with her sister that we've gone over 100 times before..."

 

It's important that a married couple really care about the other person and what they have to say or what they think or feel. But that is a bit different than wanting a very particular response from the spouse about those things. It isn't necessarily reasonble to expect that a spouse will share all or most of the same hobbies or interests, or that he'll have the same emotional response to things, or that he will find talking through ideas or emotions useful, interesting in itself, or easy.

 

So yes - if I am upset about something, I think my husband should be interested that I am upset and responsive and try to help. THat is being loving on his side. But it is not loving for me to think that because he does not have the ability to provide all the talk I need about something, or that he doesn't find it as upsetting, or that at some point he's given all he can and my further requirements frustrate him, he is a bad husband, or even that our relationship is no good.

 

Married people can become disconnected, or start to take each other for granted, and that needs to be worked on. But it is also very common for people to expect way to much from one relationship or person or think that marriage is going to fulfill all our needs for friendship or emotional intimacy.

 

And to an extent we are stuck with the people we marry - maybe you marry a guy who, it turns out, isn't all that verbal, and you are. Well, you really aren't going to be able to change that at a fundamental level and it wouldn't really be right to try - you have to make it work for you.

[Mrs Mungo]

On another note, I once heard a pastor share that he and his wife had come to realize that given their personalities, a fabulous, constantly invigorating marriage probably wasn't an option for them, and that a pretty good marriage (75%, he called it) was good enough.

 

This is terrible. I'm glad I'm not his wife. A few years ago we were having some struggles. I flat-out told my dh that I didn't want a good-enough marriage or an okay marriage. I wanted amazing or it wasn't worth it to me. To me, that's what it takes to make a marriage fulfilling, both partners working toward amazing.

[nono]

This is terrible. I'm glad I'm not his wife. A few years ago we were having some struggles. I flat-out told my dh that I didn't want a good-enough marriage or an okay marriage. I wanted amazing or it wasn't worth it to me. To me, that's what it takes to make a marriage fulfilling, both partners working toward amazing.

 

Eh, you might be surprised at how it turned out. My dh and I went through a phase like this, where we decided good enough was OK. It really took the pressure off for us in trying to pursue the ultimate relationship. Sometimes those ideas are elusive. With young children in the house and him being rather incompetent to help (his words), ultimate was a pipe dream at that point. Now, a few years later, having had the quiet confidence to have those "settling for" conversations, the marriage has, at the moment, morphed into a very fulfilling relationship, without a whole lot of effort.

 

For you, with your personality, you said what you had to have happen to be happy in your marriage. But, don't necessarily pity those of us who chose different markers for a successful marriage. I think the important thing is that those real conversations happened in each instance. :)

[Mrs Mungo]

Eh, you might be surprised at how it turned out. My dh and I went through a phase like this, where we decided good enough was OK. It really took the pressure off for us in trying to pursue the ultimate relationship. Sometimes those ideas are elusive. With young children in the house and him being rather incompetent to help (his words), ultimate was a pipe dream at that point. Now, a few years later, having had the quiet confidence to have those "settling for" conversations, the marriage has, at the moment, morphed into a very fulfilling relationship, without a whole lot of effort.

 

I will agree that those years with young kids are a hard trudge, and sometimes you are good just to get through that. I think our struggle/discussion happened as that phase was finishing for us. I guess that I was ready for new ground rules once we were done with that phase.

 

For you, with your personality, you said what you had to have happen to be happy in your marriage. But, don't necessarily pity those of us who chose different markers for a successful marriage. I think the important thing is that those real conversations happened in each instance. :)

 

I don't pity them. I'm just glad it isn't *my* husband. It would be terrible for *me*. I'm 100% positive that my relationship wouldn't work for everyone, lol. But, I agree that couples need to have those discussions about expectations and desires.

[Sarah CB]

My dh's is acts of service. Mine is physical touch.

 

My dh's is acts of service as well. Physical touch is way at the bottom of the list.

[Joyofsixreboot]

Eh, you might be surprised at how it turned out. My dh and I went through a phase like this, where we decided good enough was OK. It really took the pressure off for us in trying to pursue the ultimate relationship. Sometimes those ideas are elusive. With young children in the house and him being rather incompetent to help (his words), ultimate was a pipe dream at that point. Now, a few years later, having had the quiet confidence to have those "settling for" conversations, the marriage has, at the moment, morphed into a very fulfilling relationship, without a whole lot of effort.

 

For you, with your personality, you said what you had to have happen to be happy in your marriage. But, don't necessarily pity those of us who chose different markers for a successful marriage. I think the important thing is that those real conversations happened in each instance. :)

 

:iagree: We've had good, fantastic, Harlequin-romance periods and we love each other but this is hard periods and "If this doesn't get better I'm outa here" periods. Depends on the stage of life, commitment, etc. Now that the youngest (and probably last) is 4 and not so needy we're in a really good place. It all depends on the people involved. Acknowledging each other's feelings would be the important thing.

[Mrs Mungo]

Fair enough. With little kids its hard to carve out time for anything. But for me it doesn't take a lot. I'm happy to just play cards and drink coffee on Saturday morning. Or even e-mail throughout the day. SOMETHING. I just want to feel like we are in the same relationship (not just some distant imagined connection).

 

And, honestly? I need this even when he's gone. He's really bad at guessing what I want/need. But, as long as I tell him and break it down into specifics, he is really good about that. I need to feel connected, even when he's gone. So, he is really good about sending cards and letters, calling, skyping, whatever is available, he does it. I do the same for him, doing whatever it takes for him to feel loved by me, even when we're apart.

[nono]

I will agree that those years with young kids are a hard trudge, and sometimes you are good just to get through that. I think our struggle/discussion happened as that phase was finishing for us. I guess that I was ready for new ground rules once we were done with that phase.

 

Oh yeah. Periodic renegotiation is definitely necessary.

 

 

Oh, Wendy. Now you are making me feel like a user. :blushing: Sometimes during those tough years, that's all I did, but I still wanted him, and not some gigolo.

[Scarlett]

I think even the most intellectually brilliant women have husbands who think, "Oh please, don't let her drone on and on again tonight about XYZ. How much do I have to pretend to be interested in order to have a good chance of bedding her tonight?"

 

Your thoughts, by and large, are mundane and unoriginal. Your feelings are, by and large, common and uninspiring. I can say that about you because it's true of every single human being. We don't have a lot of unique, fascinating thoughts and feelings. Even the greatest minds generally produce a few really great ideas in a lifetime.

 

My DH and I are pretty chatty with each other. It's amazing to me that we generally have something to talk about, because very little of it is really new. And if you listened in, you probably would be quite bored. We talk about his work, we talk about our kids, we talk about the news and politics (though this can get heated). He talks about art and I pretend to be interested. I gossip about the neighbors and he acts like he is listening, lol. In general, I would say that we have a much higher than average amount of discussion, and I would say that he seeks and values my opinion more than is common. But even so, I don't delude myself that I am going to be continually fascinating for 50 years.

 

I think the best most of us can hope for is to cultivate a mutual interest in interesting things, and to come along side each other in pursuing those interests. So if you enjoy the same hobby, are interested in the same fields of study, have similar careers, read the same books and discuss them, enjoy great art or music and hold that in common, you are lucky indeed. I guess I am saying that the spark and the fuel to keep those flames of interest burning generally have to come from OUTSIDE the marriage.

 

That might still leave you feeling lonely as you each pursue different things in the same room. But I guess the remedy for that, in my opinion, is to try to cultivate a few common interests, or to do something together you both like. Go for a walk, go see a movie, play scrabble online against each other, etc. We go through phases when there is a lot of this, and phases when there is a very little. When DH is preoccupied and withdrawn from me, I do find that interesting books are a great consolation and help weather those periods, as long as they do not last for months.

 

Great post.