Did Mr. Wickham run off with Lydia

[Jennifer]

because she was "hot to trot", so to speak, or because he hoped to have revenge on Darcy by tainting Elizabeth's reputation and making her unmarriageable?

Thanks!

Jennifer

 

PS No, I'm not writing a 10th grade term paper. Just re-reading and had an "a-ha!" moment.

[reign]

I thought hot to trot.

[Caitilin]

I think hot to trot, plus the possibility (in his mind) that Lydia will have some kind of inheritance settled on her if she marries. I think the revenge angle is not sufficiently self-serving a motivation for Wickham, myself. :D

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't know if Wickham thought ahead so far as revenge. I think it was mostly that she was hot to trot and maybe he would get something out of it. That was sort of his M.O.

 

It seemingly didn't even occur to him that Elizabeth would be super-ticked-off about it, so that supports the not thinking ahead part. I am also not sure Wickham knew that Darcy was *that* interested.

[coffeefreak]

I think Hot to Trot. He didn't know Darcey loved Elizabeth, and he had to know the Bennetts were poor, right? I thought it was said he used girls and threw them away. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess I'll find out when I re-read the book again :D

[Veritaserum]

Meh. I think he was happy to have an amiable traveling companion. He certainly didn't intend to marry her. She was poor and annoying, but she was pretty. Darcy forced Wickham to marry Lydia and he made it financially desireable (all Wickham cared about). Left to his own devices Wickham would have abandoned her when she became too much of a nuisance. He was probably on the verge of doing that when Darcy showed up.

[Pink Fairy]

I think it's a combination of Lydia being easy and getting revenge at Elizabeth for finding out that he was a liar. He was a vengeful man, as evidenced by his attempt to get back at Darcy through his sister.

[Mergath]

Hmm. I never really considered that before. I'm knee-deep in The Count of Monte Cristo right now, so I'm having trouble pulling my mind back to the Bennets. :tongue_smilie:

 

I guess when I've read the book, I always assumed he never had any intention of actually marrying her- more that she was a convenient plaything for the moment. Didn't he marry her somewhat under duress? And with some financial incentive from Mr. Darcy?

 

Of course, if he realized that Mr. Darcy was in love with Elizabeth and anticipated their marriage, he might also have decided there could be a definite benefit in having a familial connection.

[Wendi]

He's good at charming young girls. (Remember Georgiana?) He loved all the attention he got from Lydia. He probably thought he was safer going after someone poor. (He certainly didn't count on Darcy forcing him to marry her; I assume he would have dumped her fairly soon and he figured he'd get away with it.)

 

Lydia threw herself at him, and he took advantage of her.

 

I agree with the others that he probably had no idea of Darcy's true feelings for Elizabeth (Darcy doesn't exact broadcast his feelings, and they were certainly not friends.)

 

Wendi

[Garga]

Hot to trot.

[Rivka]

Meh. I think he was happy to have an amiable traveling companion. He certainly didn't intend to marry her. She was poor and annoying, but she was pretty. Darcy forced Wickham to marry Lydia and he made it financially desireable (all Wickham cared about). Left to his own devices Wickham would have abandoned her when she became too much of a nuisance. He was probably on the verge of doing that when Darcy showed up.

 

:iagree:

[Michelle My Bell]

:iagree:

Meh. I think he was happy to have an amiable traveling companion. He certainly didn't intend to marry her. She was poor and annoying, but she was pretty. Darcy forced Wickham to marry Lydia and he made it financially desireable (all Wickham cared about). Left to his own devices Wickham would have abandoned her when she became too much of a nuisance. He was probably on the verge of doing that when Darcy showed up.

[eloquacious]

What surprised me in the whole matter was that Wickham ran off with a gentleman's daughter. If he had eloped with Georgianna Darcy, he would have married her (that is, forced her family into a marriage or gone to Gretna Green, etc.) for her money. It is mentioned that he meddled with tradesmen's daughters... but to dirty his own social pool by fooling around with a gentleman's daughter, however that gentleman may have been placed financially, is odd.

 

I agree that he didn't intend to marry her (or else he would have already), but it does seem out of character, even for him.

[dangermom]

Didn't Willoughby do something similar in S&S? If a (poor) gentleman's daughter was ruined, she was just sent to live in retirement forever; I don't think there would have been any repercussions to speak of on Wickham for abandoning her. Stuff like that happened.

[gardenmom5]

My understanding from reading the book is he ran because of his debts (espcially gambling) in the town the militia he was with were becoming a problem - and he likes feminine company, and she was certainly willing.

 

let us remember, that while "he" told lydia they would go to gretna green (in scotland) to marry, they never went past london. He had no plans on marrying her, he just wanted company. Only when darcy basically paid his debts (upwards of 1000 pounds) and got him a position with another militia was he willing to marry lydia.

Edited December 24, 2011 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

I think it's a combination of Lydia being easy and getting revenge at Elizabeth for finding out that he was a liar. He was a vengeful man, as evidenced by his attempt to get back at Darcy through his sister.

 

He didn't know Elizabeth was onto him until after he and lydia were married.

[cindergretta]

I don't think he was trying to get back at Darcy through Georgiana. I think he wanted a share of the Darcy fortune and Georgiana was the only way he was going to get it after he turned down school and a place in the ministry.

 

He was a cad. He enjoyed women and gambling. While he resented Darcy, he wasn't really clever enough to attempt to exact revenge on anyone, particularly anyone who wielded way more power than he could ever hope to have.

 

He never intended to marry Lydia but she was a convenient companion due to her own foolishness. He knew he could use her as long as he wanted as she didn't use the brains God gave her...

[Jennifer]

Lots to think about, thanks. Another question: Why go all the way to Scotland to elope? Couldn't do it in England??

[Rivka]

Lots to think about, thanks. Another question: Why go all the way to Scotland to elope? Couldn't do it in England??

 

Lydia was underage. (Wasn't she fifteen?) She couldn't marry in England without the consent of her father.

 

To get married in England, under ordinary circumstance, the "banns" would have to be called in both people's home parishes, three Sundays in a row. That means that their intent to marry would be announced, and anyone who knew of any problems or objections would be invited to come forward. The marriage would have to be held in either Wickham's home parish or Lydia's.

 

If you didn't want to do all that business with the announcements and the three-week wait, you had to buy a special license from the Archbishop of Canterbury.

 

Not that Wickham intended to marry her anyway, but all this is why they would have to go to Scotland if he did.

[stripe]

I don't know if Wickham thought ahead so far as revenge. I think it was mostly that she was hot to trot and maybe he would get something out of it. That was sort of his M.O.

 

I thought he sort of liked corrupting young girls.

[Amy in NH]

Yes.

[Remudamom]

He didn't know Elizabeth was onto him until after he and lydia were married.

 

If he didn't then he was an idiot. Remember at the party in Meryton (right before the troops left for Brighton) when E said something to the effect of knowing Darcy better after her stay with Charlotte? Wickham must have known then that she was on to him.

 

I don't think he had any idea that there was anything between E and D though.

[Laura Corin]

Meh. I think he was happy to have an amiable traveling companion. He certainly didn't intend to marry her. She was poor and annoying, but she was pretty. Darcy forced Wickham to marry Lydia and he made it financially desireable (all Wickham cared about). Left to his own devices Wickham would have abandoned her when she became too much of a nuisance. He was probably on the verge of doing that when Darcy showed up.

 

I don't think Wickham would have been aware of D's pash for Elizabeth. Probably only Miss Bingley was fully aware of that, and she wouldn't have spread it around, because it would have been too embarrassing that he preferred Elizabeth.

 

Laura

[Mimm]

I don't really think he thought as far as Elizabeth and I certainly don't think he thought Darcy had any intention of marrying Elizabeth at that time. Like several others have said, I think he simply needed to get out of town because of debts, would rather have had a companion than not, Lydia was available so he told her what she wanted to hear and took her. I think he had some slight affection for her at the time, but quickly grew weary of her.

[Pink Fairy]

He didn't know Elizabeth was onto him until after he and lydia were married.

 

Really? I thought it was after her trip to see Charlotte (the letter), but before her vacation with the Gardners.

[dangermom]

Lydia was underage. (Wasn't she fifteen?) She couldn't marry in England without the consent of her father.

 

To get married in England, under ordinary circumstance, the "banns" would have to be called in both people's home parishes, three Sundays in a row. That means that their intent to marry would be announced, and anyone who knew of any problems or objections would be invited to come forward. The marriage would have to be held in either Wickham's home parish or Lydia's.

 

If you didn't want to do all that business with the announcements and the three-week wait, you had to buy a special license from the Archbishop of Canterbury.

 

Not that Wickham intended to marry her anyway, but all this is why they would have to go to Scotland if he did.

 

Yes. In Scotland, you could get a quick marriage, so people who wanted to elope would go there. Gretna Green, right across the border, was the usual spot and so if you read about a couple running off to Scotland or going to Gretna Green, it's because they're eloping.

[AuntieM]

Given Lydia's nature, I always thought her complicit; in fact, it may have even been at her suggestion.

[gardenmom5]

Lots to think about, thanks. Another question: Why go all the way to Scotland to elope? Couldn't do it in England??

 

england's marriage laws required notification - called "banns" - and there was a wait before a marriage could take place. Even today, marriages must take place in a public location. Scotland had no such laws. think why do people run off to vegas.

[Mary in VA]

Meh. I think he was happy to have an amiable traveling companion. He certainly didn't intend to marry her. She was poor and annoying, but she was pretty. Darcy forced Wickham to marry Lydia and he made it financially desireable (all Wickham cared about). Left to his own devices Wickham would have abandoned her when she became too much of a nuisance. He was probably on the verge of doing that when Darcy showed up.

 

:iagree:I think you hit the nail on the head! Wickham had no intention of marrying Lydia until Darcy made it attractive.

[gardenmom5]

If he didn't then he was an idiot. Remember at the party in Meryton (right before the troops left for Brighton) when E said something to the effect of knowing Darcy better after her stay with Charlotte? Wickham must have known then that she was on to him.

 

I don't think he had any idea that there was anything between E and D though.

 

wickham never struck me as particularly bright, just a greedy party boy who could be 'charming and amiable' (like a snake). He tried to bring up the subject of his "old grievences against darcy" to elizabeth after he and lydia arrived from london, married. she shut him down, very diplomatically and didn't let on just how much she knew. just let him know enough to keep him from bringing up the subject to her again.

 

eta: if he had any clue she knew anything, I can't imagine him having brought up darcy to her. at that time, neither darcy nor bingly had returned to mertyon.

 

as for the party before his militia left town, she put distance between him as opposed to letting on to anyone but Jane what she knew. she choose to keep what she knew secret since the militia was leaving, and she thought anyone in mertyon susceptible to his charms would then be safe.

Edited December 24, 2011 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

Really? I thought it was after her trip to see Charlotte (the letter), but before her vacation with the Gardners.

 

but wickham didn't know any of that - so he was ignorant of her knowledge.

[kiwi3129]

My understanding from reading the book is he ran because of his debts (espcially gambling) in the town the militia he was with were becoming a problem - and he likes feminine company, and she was certainly willing.

 

let us remember, that while "he" told lydia they would go to gretna green (in scotland) to marry, they never went past london. He had no plans on marrying her, he just wanted company. Only when darcy basically paid his debts (upwards of 1000 pounds) and got him a position with another militia was he willing to marry lydia.

 

I agree. I'm rereading P&P and just read this part within the last couple of days. I think his main motivation in leaving the militia was to run away from his gambling debts. It is mentioned that he had also left debts when he left Meryton. (Darcy also paid those off). However, I think Lydia was also hot to trot, so he knew it would be easy to get her to go along with him.