Trying to not freak out....DD8 and male piano teacher

[plansrme]

Just want to point out that the oddds of the piano teacher's being a pedophile are very, very, very slim. The odds of an 8 yo's developing a disrepectful and sassy attitude towards someone who is correcting her are slightly higher. I am not disagreeing with any of the advice given above, but I would worry that simply changing teachers would be interpreted by your daughter as giving in to her sassiness, and thus make it worse, while addressing a concern that very well may have no basis.

 

Again, I am not saying there is no basis to her complaint; only the OP can weigh the equities. I would just not automatically assume that the teacher is a pedophile, and I would take some intermediate steps before getting so creeped out. As others have mentioned, I would observe a class, ask him not to touch her, ask him the purpose of the fingers on the shoulders, etc.

 

Terri

[Joanne]

Just want to point out that the oddds of the piano teacher's being a pedophile are very, very, very slim. The odds of an 8 yo's developing a disrepectful and sassy attitude towards someone who is correcting her are slightly higher. I am not disagreeing with any of the advice given above, but I would worry that simply changing teachers would be interpreted by your daughter as giving in to her sassiness, and thus make it worse, while addressing a concern that very well may have no basis.

 

Again, I am not saying there is no basis to her complaint; only the OP can weigh the equities. I would just not automatically assume that the teacher is a pedophile, and I would take some intermediate steps before getting so creeped out. As others have mentioned, I would observe a class, ask him not to touch her, ask him the purpose of the fingers on the shoulders, etc.

 

Terri

 

The statistical rate of pedophelia is not known, but is estimated to be under 5% of adult males.

 

However, there are realities here to consider:

 

• THIS adult male works intentionally with children
  
• THIS adult male touches this female child
  
• THIS adult males gives at least one little girl the heebie/jeebies
  
• THIS adult male reported to mom that he needs more compliance from her
  

 

Those above issues changes to percentage likelihood.

 

My little girls' hebbie jeebie feelings will trump "sass" every day, all day, no matter what.

[Annie G]

Just want to point out that the oddds of the piano teacher's being a pedophile are very, very, very slim. The odds of an 8 yo's developing a disrepectful and sassy attitude towards someone who is correcting her are slightly higher. I am not disagreeing with any of the advice given above, but I would worry that simply changing teachers would be interpreted by your daughter as giving in to her sassiness, and thus make it worse, while addressing a concern that very well may have no basis.

 

Again, I am not saying there is no basis to her complaint; only the OP can weigh the equities. I would just not automatically assume that the teacher is a pedophile, and I would take some intermediate steps before getting so creeped out. As others have mentioned, I would observe a class, ask him not to touch her, ask him the purpose of the fingers on the shoulders, etc.

 

Terri

 

I agree with you. Did the girl mention any touching before she was called out for being sassy? Kids don't want to get in trouble- might she have overstated her 'uneasiness' to deflect the focus from her sassy talk to the teacher?

[In the Rain]

If your dd says she would be more comfortable with another teacher, I would honor that.

 

If you change teachers though, I think you need to tell the teacher or the school why. If he is a man innocently touching children, he needs to know that it is bothering at least one child. If he wants to tap rhythm on their shoulder, or adjust their posture, he needs to ask for permission first. If there is a pattern of him crossing personal boundaries, the school won't know unless parents complain.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I am usually pretty paranoid . . . but putting a hand on a SHOULDER should be safe. Even in places with strict non-touching guidelines, the shoulder is usually considered non-sexual and safe.

 

:iagree:

 

Also, I'm sorry to say this, but if your six-year-old doesn't understand the extremely horrible implications for this man of being accused of sexual abuse, and she sees that you are getting upset that he's touching her, and she's not wanting to do what he says anyway for reasons of normal six-year-old orneriness, saying, "No, I haven't noticed him touching my brother" might feel to her like a harmless way to get out of having to deal with a teacher she doesn't care for.

 

I would watch through the window to be sure, or sit in on classes. (Actually, I'd sit in on classes to help my kids remember not to sass their teacher.) If my child continued to dislike that teacher, I would find a new one after the semester or lesson package or whatever was paid up, just because of personality clash. But I would be very, very sure before I made a life-ruining accusation.

[Lily of the Valley]

Regardless whether this man is dangerous, your dd is uncomfortable. Period. That is enough. She needs to be able to trust her instincts and will need you to encourage her in that. Find a new piano teacher.

 

:iagree:

Edited December 16, 2011 by chrisjo

[DarlaS]

I would give the teacher the benefit of doubt and calmly tell him that DD does not like to be touched.

If he does it innocently, he will be glad to know and will stop. If there is more, this will tell him that your DD tells you everything, that you are watchful and aware.

But I would hesitate to suspect him of sinister motives right away.

 

Maybe he just kind of absentmindedly does it. She may remind him of someone (a beloved niece for instance).

 

I've taken my kids to the same family doctor for years. He has six kids (and his wife homeschools!) and has taken a particular liking to my dd. Once when she was about four, he carried her around the office showing her the pics of all their family's pets on the wall. DD was short and the pics were up high, so I didn't think anything of it. Also, I was right there. I was actually in there because one of the boys was sick. Turns out his little girl is her age and he'd been working a lot of hours. :001_smile:

 

That said, I don't know how comfortable I'd be with my kids that age having a piano lesson with a male teacher and no one else in the room. Things can be misinterpreted (in either direction) so easily...

[Tammyla]

:iagree:

 

Regardless whether this man is dangerous, your dd is uncomfortable. Period. That is enough. She needs to be able to trust her instincts and will need you to encourage her in that. Find a new piano teacher.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry.

 

At the very least, talk with the teacher as a pp said and inform not to continue it; and by all means sit in or view the lessons through the window.

 

(Btw...I'd be less troubled if he treated each child the same.)

[Tammyla]

:iagree: Big, old, red flag.

 

The statistical rate of pedophelia is not known, but is estimated to be under 5% of adult males.

 

However, there are realities here to consider:

 

• THIS adult male works intentionally with children
  
• THIS adult male touches this female child
  
• THIS adult males gives at least one little girl the heebie/jeebies
  
• THIS adult male reported to mom that he needs more compliance from her
  

Those above issues changes to percentage likelihood.

 

My little girls' hebbie jeebie feelings will trump "sass" every day, all day, no matter what.

[SailorMom]

I would watch, and have a 'joking" conversations (keeping it lighthearted at first) perhaps?

He does need to know that it makes your DD uncomfortable, but sitting next to a pupil is completely normal, touching fingers, normal. Shoulder touching - while not necessary - is certainly not a sign of any sort of abuse...

Some adults are just more touchy-feely. I know it was very tough for me - as a Cub Scout leader and CubMaster - to remember to not hug the boys, or put my hand on their shoulder. It's just natural for me with younger kids, and I almost feel awkward trying not to touch them.

Have you ever had any other negative vibes from him? If not, and if the lessons are going well, have a talk with him and then watch while reading a book, or something.

[DarlaS]

As a music teacher, I do have to say that a metronome often doesn't work well for young musicians-they struggle with it, and many kids DO respond better to a tactile cue.

 

I could never play with that thing. Never. I find it very distracting.

 

I could also see my dd at age 8 (or even now) bringing up something completely unrelated about someone that annoyed her because she did not like being corrected by that person.

 

Her piano teacher has mentioned (numerous times!) how short her attention span is. I have to touch her frequently to bring her back the the present at home. Or else repeat myself. Repeatedly. :tongue_smilie: So, I would not likely think too much of it, yet probably a female teacher would be better for her. It's hard to concentrate and learn anything if someone makes you uncomfortable. Regardless of whether or not there is anything to it.

[snickelfritz]

I would watch, and have a 'joking" conversations (keeping it lighthearted at first) perhaps?

He does need to know that it makes your DD uncomfortable, but sitting next to a pupil is completely normal, touching fingers, normal. Shoulder touching - while not necessary - is certainly not a sign of any sort of abuse...

Some adults are just more touchy-feely. I know it was very tough for me - as a Cub Scout leader and CubMaster - to remember to not hug the boys, or put my hand on their shoulder. It's just natural for me with younger kids, and I almost feel awkward trying not to touch them.

Have you ever had any other negative vibes from him? If not, and if the lessons are going well, have a talk with him and then watch while reading a book, or something.

 

I agree.

 

And about him working with kids.... Many music majors I know, end up with multiple jobs to make ends meet. Teaching is SO common among musical people (in an otherwise low-earning field) that I wouldn't say that alone is a reason to suspect him. Our violin teacher teaches private lessons, teaches in a school, plays for restaraunts, plays for weddings, plays for churches, etc.... Really, just as many gigs as SHE can get. Why is it wrong for a male to teach?

 

With that said, I would sit in/watch closely AND tell him that she needs some space. We told a neighbor girls mom that her hugging was making dd uncomfortable, because I think that's something that needs to be respected. But, I would hesitate to report him to his superiors for touching her shoulder.

[jplain]

I am usually pretty paranoid . . . but putting a hand on a SHOULDER should be safe. Even in places with strict non-touching guidelines, the shoulder is usually considered non-sexual and safe.

It may be considered non-sexual, but that doesn't make it okay. *I* wouldn't be comfortable with a teacher touching me for anything other than brief posture or form adjustments.

 

I take yoga, and often receive manual adjustments from teachers, both male and female. Some use a very light touch, others manipulate more directly, and that kind of touch doesn't bother me. But a hand placed on my shoulder would not be appropriate or comfortable for me.

 

To the OP, I'm so glad you're showing your daughter that her instincts warrant action. This will help keep her safer as a teen and young adult. And I ditto the Protecting the Gift recommendation: excellent book!

[Scuff]

I agree with you. Did the girl mention any touching before she was called out for being sassy? Kids don't want to get in trouble- might she have overstated her 'uneasiness' to deflect the focus from her sassy talk to the teacher?

 

As a compliant, first-born girl (which op said her daughter is), I would not have said a thing until asked outright. Asking about the sass very well could have been the nudge she needed to talk, even though she never said anything before.

[KnitWit]

Just want to point out that the oddds of the piano teacher's being a pedophile are very, very, very slim.

 

At the risk of veering off course here, I have to ask how you know this. We have a friend who works on the Crimes Against Children taskforce. Would you say that the risk of a pediatrician, fireman, police officer etc. being a ped are *very, very, very slim*? Because SEVERAL men from these professions and more are sitting in jail with stacks of irrefutable evidence against them.

 

I surely don't want to encourage paranoia...but be careful where your certainty lies. Anyone could be...anyone...even a father of a large happy family who is the youth and music pastor of a church. I know because I know HIM personally.

[jplain]

As a compliant, first-born girl (which op said her daughter is), I would not have said a thing until asked outright. Asking about the sass very well could have been the nudge she needed to talk, even though she never said anything before.

:iagree:

 

There were times I should have informed a trusted adult of questionable/inappropriate actions by other adults, but it never occured to me to do so. It boggles my mind now, but what it really drives home for me is how disempowered children can feel around adults. It reminds me that as a parent, I must actively assist my children to trust and voice their feelings.

[cdrumm4448]

:iagree:

 

He *could* be helping her keep time, if she tends to slow down or speed up? I don't know, just a benefit of the doubt idea to toss out. .

 

That's what a metronome is for.

 

ETA: While it can be more difficult for young players to succeed with a metronome, it isn't impossible. I'm from the stone ages but I played piano with one from the very beginning of my lessons. The teacher never touched me. Both my kids play Suzuki violin and while our teacher does touch them to manually adjust incorrect position, she never keeps time for them by touching them. She taps her foot. A man should (today especially) be very wary of touching children for any reason. My own husband would never even want to be alone with someone else's daughter, let alone touch her.

Edited December 16, 2011 by cdrumm4448

[Forget-Me-Not]

The statistical rate of pedophelia is not known, but is estimated to be under 5% of adult males.

 

However, there are realities here to consider:

 

 

• THIS adult male works intentionally with children

• THIS adult male touches this female child

• THIS adult males gives at least one little girl the heebie/jeebies

• THIS adult male reported to mom that he needs more compliance from her

 

 

Those above issues changes to percentage likelihood.

 

My little girls' hebbie jeebie feelings will trump "sass" every day, all day, no matter what.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[annandatje]

Also, I'm sorry to say this, but if your six-year-old doesn't understand the extremely horrible implications for this man of being accused of sexual abuse, and she sees that you are getting upset that he's touching her, and she's not wanting to do what he says anyway for reasons of normal six-year-old orneriness, saying, "No, I haven't noticed him touching my brother" might feel to her like a harmless way to get out of having to deal with a teacher she doesn't care for.

 

I would watch through the window to be sure, or sit in on classes. (Actually, I'd sit in on classes to help my kids remember not to sass their teacher.) If my child continued to dislike that teacher, I would find a new one after the semester or lesson package or whatever was paid up, just because of personality clash. But I would be very, very sure before I made a life-ruining accusation.

 

:iagree:

[justamouse]

That's what a metronome is for.

 

ETA: While it can be more difficult for young players to succeed with a metronome, it isn't impossible. I'm from the stone ages but I played piano with one from the very beginning of my lessons. The teacher never touched me. Both my kids play Suzuki violin and while our teacher does touch them to manually adjust incorrect position, she never keeps time for them by touching them. She taps her foot. A man should (today especially) be very wary of touching children for any reason. My own husband would never even want to be alone with someone else's daughter, let alone touch her.

 

The music teachers on the board already stated that there are many times a metronome is not useful to a child.

[Wabi Sabi]

I can't believe how people jump to such nasty conclusions so quickly. Touching someone on the shoulder is inappropriate? Really? Since when? (Not just this teacher/child specifically, but in general.)

 

It's sad when people become so scared of boogey-men lurking behind every corner. Does abuse happen? Sadly, yes. But to even implicate that this might be the case here? A hasty judgement, IMO.

 

Still, I agree with the recommendations to find a new teacher. You'll be doing him a favor.

[Forget-Me-Not]

The music teachers on the board already stated that there are many times a metronome is not useful to a child.

 

Yep, or even some adults. Like another PP, I cannot CANNOT play the piano with a metronome. I have a digital piano with a built in metronome. Tried it the other day when I was picking out some sheet music. It drove me so crazy that I had to turn it off.

 

And I don't think anyone has advocated turning this man in for anything or having him publicly blasted as a pedophile or otherwise doing anything to destroy his reputation or his life. The OP may want to have a private conversation with him or the studio manger/owner about exactly WHY her daughter is uncomfortable. It could very well be that this man is completely innocent and will appreciate the heads up.

 

The general consensus here seems to be (a) the child is uncomfortable with this teacher and so (b) it's probably time to find a new piano teacher. I think this is perfectly fair when you're shopping with a music teacher. If you're uncomfortable with a teacher for any reason, it's perfectly reasonable to move on and find one who is a better fit.

[Joanne]

I can't believe how people jump to such nasty conclusions so quickly. Touching someone on the shoulder is inappropriate? Really? Since when? (Not just this teacher/child specifically, but in general.)

 

It's sad when people become so scared of boogey-men lurking behind every corner. Does abuse happen? Sadly, yes. But to even implicate that this might be the case here? A hasty judgement, IMO.

 

Still, I agree with the recommendations to find a new teacher. You'll be doing him a favor.

 

I am not a "perpetrator lurks at every corner" parent.

 

I am usually one of the few public restroom allowing, sleepover allowing, let your kids play outside moms here.

 

The dismissal of the heebie jeebies of this child, in this context, with this content scares me.

[cdrumm4448]

The music teachers on the board already stated that there are many times a metronome is not useful to a child.

 

Thus why I posted. I guess being a Suzuki mom for 6 years doesn't qualify me to have an opinion.

[justamouse]

Thus why I posted. I guess being a Suzuki mom for 6 years doesn't qualify me to have an opinion.

 

:001_huh:

 

Do you purposely seek to be offended?

[cdrumm4448]

:001_huh:

 

Do you purposely seek to be offended?

 

Do you purposely seek to offend?

 

ETA: I don't ask questions I don't already know the answer to.

[mommymilkies]

Regardless whether this man is dangerous, your dd is uncomfortable. Period. That is enough. She needs to be able to trust her instincts and will need you to encourage her in that. Find a new piano teacher.

 

:grouphug: I am sorry.

 

:iagree::grouphug: What matters is that she listens to her instincts. If she doesn't like being touched, he should pick up on that and stop if he pays attention AT ALL. It's pretty obvious when someone doesn't want touched. OP, I would read Protecting the Gift. It's a wonderful book.

Edited December 16, 2011 by mommymilkies

[Dmmetler]

That's what a metronome is for.

 

ETA: While it can be more difficult for young players to succeed with a metronome, it isn't impossible. I'm from the stone ages but I played piano with one from the very beginning of my lessons. The teacher never touched me. Both my kids play Suzuki violin and while our teacher does touch them to manually adjust incorrect position, she never keeps time for them by touching them. She taps her foot. A man should (today especially) be very wary of touching children for any reason. My own husband would never even want to be alone with someone else's daughter, let alone touch her.

 

And we don't know he was helping her keep time-that was just one suggestion (and can be VERY helpful for a young piano student). If the OP's daughter is a child who tends to stiffen up and hunch into her shoulders, placing a hand on the shoulder is a very easy way to get the child to relax without having to stop them in playing (which a verbal correction often does in a beginner) or without it potentially feeling like a reprimand, which can sometimes be the case for a child who is a bit of a perfectionist.

 

Also, keep in mind, this is a group lesson, not an individual one. The teacher is NOT alone with the OP's daughter. It is entirely possible that this teacher is setting up small group lessons precisely to protect himself, because it's downright dangerous to be a man and to teach children privately. I am kind of surprised that he doesn't want parents in the room, though, since usually at age 8 the parent would still need to be actively involved in practice, but in a group setting, it may simply be a space concern, or it may be that he's found the kids get too distracted with the extra people. I know my daughter's dance teachers do not allow parents in the room more than a couple of times a year.

 

Regardless, it's reasonable to find a new teacher when a teacher is a poor fit for your child-and making the child feel uncomfortable is a sign that the fit isn't great.

[cdrumm4448]

Regardless, it's reasonable to find a new teacher when a teacher is a poor fit for your child-and making the child feel uncomfortable is a sign that the fit isn't great.

 

I agree. Personally, I do not agree with leaving a child alone with a teacher of the opposite sex, even with other children in the room, for any reason. My dd is never with a man without me present.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I can't believe how people jump to such nasty conclusions so quickly. Touching someone on the shoulder is inappropriate? Really? Since when? (Not just this teacher/child specifically, but in general.)

 

It's sad when people become so scared of boogey-men lurking behind every corner. Does abuse happen? Sadly, yes. But to even implicate that this might be the case here? A hasty judgement, IMO.

 

Still, I agree with the recommendations to find a new teacher. You'll be doing him a favor.

 

I actually agree with this. I've been reading this and wondering how to express my unease. I was abused as a child and am very careful with my children but the tone of the posts here seemed a bit over-the-top. I guess I don't see why someone would freak out that a child was touched on the shoulder. I might see the need for some more careful evaluation including sitting in on the class, as some have recommended. If the child is bothered by people touching her, I could see explaining that to the teacher. But I don't see a field of red flags. I see a yellow flag that would need some exploration before I upped the alert level. I understand the concept of not dismissing feelings but sometimes just explaining that the touch was for posture, keeping time, being focused (provided that this is what the teacher tells you was the purpose of the touch) gives it context. There are legitimate reasons for touch even in our modern society.

[Jenny in GA]

I haven't read the replies, but I ran a piano studio for several years. I have always told people to take the time to find a teacher who is a good fit and who their kid feels comfortable around.

 

People usually don't listen, but I tell everybody to interview, in person, at least three different teachers, with at least ten minutes of the interview being direct interaction between teacher and student, before making a choice, I think this is one of the main reasons there are so many "piano drop-outs." Parents get a phone number of a teacher who is close or who their friend likes, and that's their new teacher. End of decision-making process.

 

Soooo .... even if there was NO issue of anyone touching anybody, I would strongly say, "Find a private music teacher who your child is VERY comfortable with, and who they LIKE."

[Annie G]

I agree. Personally, I do not agree with leaving a child alone with a teacher of the opposite sex, even with other children in the room, for any reason. My dd is never with a man without me present.

 

Do you have the same rules for your son being alone with a female? I tutor math and have just made arrangements to work with a 13 year old boy next year. I currently tutor his sister and sometimes the mom goes out to run errands and isn't there when I arrive. Never occurred to me to be concerned about that.

[justamouse]

Do you purposely seek to offend?

 

 

:001_huh:

 

I answered you. Factually. You got offended. I didn't answer with anything other than information many people upthread said, in one, non opinionated but factual sentence.

[cdrumm4448]

Do you have the same rules for your son being alone with a female? I tutor math and have just made arrangements to work with a 13 year old boy next year. I currently tutor his sister and sometimes the mom goes out to run errands and isn't there when I arrive. Never occurred to me to be concerned about that.

 

My son has no reason to be alone with a female.

[cdrumm4448]

:001_huh:

 

I answered you. Factually. You got offended. I didn't answer with anything other than information many people upthread said, in one, non opinionated but factual sentence.

 

You habitually address me in a contentious manner.

[NanceXToo]

Personally, I do not agree with leaving a child alone with a teacher of the opposite sex, even with other children in the room, for any reason. My dd is never with a man without me present.

 

My son has no reason to be alone with a female.

 

Of course, gender lines aren't necessarily relevant to begin with. If that male teacher you don't want to leave your daughter alone with did happen to be a pedophile, he might very well have a preference for boys anyway.

 

I think the most important thing any of us can do for our children is just teach them how to trust their gut/instincts, how to speak up for themselves and set boundaries, to not be afraid to tell an adult "NO," "STOP," "I DON'T LIKE THAT," to not be afraid to tell us (their parents) when they are uncomfortable in a situation, to take them at their word when they are uncomfortable and to get them OUT of that situation that is making them uncomfortable, no matter how silly or small that reason may seem to us, because it is ALWAYS better to be safe than sorry when it is our children's safety and security on the line.

 

If anyone here in this thread has not yet read Protecting The Gift by Gavin de Becker, please do. Seriously. Do. No parent should go without reading that book.

 

Another great book to read WITH your kids (age 8 and up) or to give to your kids to read on their own is The Safe Zone, A Kid's Guide to Personal Safety by Donna Chaiet and Francine Russell.

[annandatje]

My gay piano teacher would keep time on my shoulder so the situation as described does not set off alarm for me. He would also lay his fingers over mine at points in the lessons. Of course, this was many years ago.

[Annie G]

I know I'll sound horrible, but I would be more fearful of a man and my child (boy or girl) than a woman. Not that women NEVER, but geesh after all the stuff I've heard on the news lately it really freaks me out. Yes I have a double standard for sure. :001_unsure:

 

Hey, you do what you have to do to keep your kids safe! I just wondered if I need to make a rule that I'm not willing to be there without another adult in the house. I really don't want to even bring it up but wondered if it's routine to allow teachers/students to be unsupervised.

 

When my oldest were teens and were babysitting, there were a couple of families who wouldn't allow their husband to drive my girls home after babysitting. Their rule was set so the dh would never have to worry about being accused of inappropriate behavior. It just seemed bizarre to me- we were good friends with these families and it's not as if our girls were notorious flirts or anything.

[Jenny in Atl]

I agree. Personally, I do not agree with leaving a child alone with a teacher of the opposite sex, even with other children in the room, for any reason. My dd is never with a man without me present.

 

:confused:

 

Amazing... letting irrational fears limit what could be great experiences and guidance, for your daughter, just because the teacher happens to be a man.

[EKS]

I would sit in on the next lesson. I would tell the teacher that you want to sit in to ensure that your daughter is behaving (but your real reason would be to observe his behavior).

 

I'm guessing that if the shoulder touching thing has evil intentions, then the teacher won't do it in your presence. If he's oblivious or he is trying to help her keep time or whatever, he will do it in your presence. If he is oblivious, you can let him know that your daughter is annoyed by it. If he does it to help her keep time, maybe there's another way for him to do that.

 

Then I would continue to sit in on the lessons.

 

As an aside, I had an experience that makes me hyper aware of falsely accusing people of doing bad things to children. Years ago my husband and I and our three year old were in a campground attempting to fall asleep. Some kids (maybe 10-12 years old) were running through people's campsites yelling. My husband finally went out and confronted them and told them to go back to their campsite.

 

About 15 minutes later the rangers came by wanting to talk to my husband. Apparently the kids told their mother (it was just the mother with the kids) that my husband had yelled at them and pushed them to the ground. The rangers put my husband in handcuffs and searched our car for weapons. They did not believe our story until finally a guy from the adjacent campsite came over and verified what had happened.

 

It could have easily gone the other way, if no one had spoken up and if the kids had stuck to their story. It angers me even now, twelve years later, that neither the mother nor the rangers apologized.

 

So my point with this story is that I completely understanding honoring any queasy gut feelings this guy is giving either you or your daughter, but please don't accuse him of anything unless you have much more information than you currently do. You could ruin his life.

[JessicaLady]

I read through the thread and forgive me if I missed something pertaining to the following having already been mentioned BUT, I know when I did music and now w/ my son being in PT (they do interactive metronome) sometimes the instructor would tap ME so I would feel the beat. Not just hear it. I had female and male lesson teachers do this. I also do not like being touched but I MUCH older than your child is now and assumed it was part of the lesson. Which I am still convinced it was in my case. And, in my son's case. The PT taps his back to help him 'hear' the beat. Is it possible that his fingers touching her shoulder are actually him helping her with her timing?

 

However, all this being said, I think you need to talk with your daughter more and discuss that, whether he's touching her or not in any manner, is she uncomfortable with him? If she's uncomfortable or like a previous post stated, isn't a good fit, then switch.

 

If he's professional he would agree to whatever is best for your daughter.

 

ETA: My bad. I see my point re: timing has actually been much discussed. I should've been more thorough in my reading.

Edited December 16, 2011 by JessicaLady

[Wabi Sabi]

My son has no reason to be alone with a female.

And men? It's not as though there's never been a man with a thing for little boys. Historically, well...

 

Really, anyone could be seen as suspect regardless of gender. I personally have no desire of living with that kind of constant fear and suspicion of nearly everyone around me. At a certain point you (generic you) have to loosen the reigns and trust that you've empowered/taught your child what to do in situations that don't feel right.

[angela in ohio]

I know I'll sound horrible, but I would be more fearful of a man and my child (boy or girl) than a woman. Not that women NEVER, but geesh after all the stuff I've heard on the news lately it really freaks me out. Yes I have a double standard for sure. :001_unsure:

 

That's not horrible, that's knowing your risks. All parents should go read the crime statistics available and use a combination of that information and gut instincts to make wise decisions for their children.

 

FWIW, neither my son or daughters are alone with men, with very few exceptions (my two dbils, a friend's dh whom I trust immensely.)

[NanceXToo]

:confused:

 

Amazing... letting irrational fears limit what could be great experiences and guidance, for your daughter, just because the teacher happens to be a man.

 

Well, look. We all have our "things" that we're maybe over-protective about when it comes to our kids. But we each get to make our parenting decisions for our own kids and I don't think we need to start calling each other "irrational" over it. Besides, she didn't say she didn't let men teach her daughter or ever be around her daughter, she just said she wanted to be in the room. If that's her comfort level, who cares. Some moms are weird about strange men around their kids. Some are weird about public toilets. Some are weird about sleepovers. Some are weird about playing in the front yard unsupervised. Some are weird about letting other parents drive their kids around. We all have something outside our comfort zone. It doesn't really matter if other people "get" it.

[Wabi Sabi]

I agree. Personally, I do not agree with leaving a child alone with a teacher of the opposite sex, even with other children in the room, for any reason. My dd is never with a man without me present.

 

For any reason? No child should ever be left alone with an adult of the opposite sex, even with other children present?

 

Gosh, that sure would be a logistical nightmare for running any kind of school, wouldn't it? All single sex classrooms and staff. No more pottery classes for my ds since the instructor is female. Choir would have to go too: female director. Society in general would have to be totally restructured and segregated. Sounds extreme, IMO.

[angela in ohio]

When my oldest were teens and were babysitting, there were a couple of families who wouldn't allow their husband to drive my girls home after babysitting. Their rule was set so the dh would never have to worry about being accused of inappropriate behavior. It just seemed bizarre to me- we were good friends with these families and it's not as if our girls were notorious flirts or anything.

 

My dh makes it a rule to never be alone with a woman or girl in a car or closed room. He is in education, and one accusation would - poof - make his career disappear. It has absolutely nothing to do with the girls/women or their reputations. It's just too much of a risk.

[YLVD]

Just want to point out that the oddds of the piano teacher's being a pedophile are very, very, very slim. The odds of an 8 yo's developing a disrepectful and sassy attitude towards someone who is correcting her are slightly higher. I am not disagreeing with any of the advice given above, but I would worry that simply changing teachers would be interpreted by your daughter as giving in to her sassiness, and thus make it worse, while addressing a concern that very well may have no basis.

 

Again, I am not saying there is no basis to her complaint; only the OP can weigh the equities. I would just not automatically assume that the teacher is a pedophile, and I would take some intermediate steps before getting so creeped out. As others have mentioned, I would observe a class, ask him not to touch her, ask him the purpose of the fingers on the shoulders, etc.

 

Terri

 

Actually, the odds are not slim at ALL. The number of pedophiles among us are staggering.

[YLVD]

The statistical rate of pedophelia is not known, but is estimated to be under 5% of adult males.

 

However, there are realities here to consider:

 

• THIS adult male works intentionally with children
  
• THIS adult male touches this female child
  
• THIS adult males gives at least one little girl the heebie/jeebies
  
• THIS adult male reported to mom that he needs more compliance from her
  

 

Those above issues changes to percentage likelihood.

 

My little girls' hebbie jeebie feelings will trump "sass" every day, all day, no matter what.

 

It's really hard to measure though as a very very small number of pedophiles are ever caught and tried for their crimes. IIRC, in the sexual crimes part of my studies, the number is much higher and cannot be accurately measured because so many are not even brought to justice.

[YLVD]

I could never play with that thing. Never. I find it very distracting.

 

I could also see my dd at age 8 (or even now) bringing up something completely unrelated about someone that annoyed her because she did not like being corrected by that person.

 

Her piano teacher has mentioned (numerous times!) how short her attention span is. I have to touch her frequently to bring her back the the present at home. Or else repeat myself. Repeatedly. :tongue_smilie: So, I would not likely think too much of it, yet probably a female teacher would be better for her. It's hard to concentrate and learn anything if someone makes you uncomfortable. Regardless of whether or not there is anything to it.

 

Yes but the fact that he is not touching the boy in the same way is a HUGE red flag. If he were, I think that it would be less alarming

[YLVD]

I can't believe how people jump to such nasty conclusions so quickly. Touching someone on the shoulder is inappropriate? Really? Since when? (Not just this teacher/child specifically, but in general.)

 

It's sad when people become so scared of boogey-men lurking behind every corner. Does abuse happen? Sadly, yes. But to even implicate that this might be the case here? A hasty judgement, IMO.

 

Still, I agree with the recommendations to find a new teacher. You'll be doing him a favor.

 

I studied criminology extensively, worked in the criminal justice field as well as the legal field. The extent of sexual abuse of children by men is staggering. The sad part of it all is that much of it is done by stepfathers, uncles, fathers, brothers, etc

 

I'm not demonizing men. Most of my friends are men. But I'm just not sure if people really understand how scary it all us. The rates at which girls are assaulted is staggering, and the number of boys being victimized is not far behind.

 

Until our criminal justice system actually deals with these people as they should, we have to be vigilant. Although again, most of this will happen within a family