My daughter has new friends - CC

[JennifersLost]

I think I've been on this board long enough for people to know that I genuinely don't like to hurt other people's feelings, nor do I like to be rude.

 

My daughter has two new friends - sisters - who live a block away. They get along well and the girls are nicely behaved. We belong to no organized religion. I don't have a name for my beliefs. If forced to explain them I would say that I recognize the universe as an amazing creation and can't fathom what is big enough to "create" it or exist outside of it and I'm just grateful and happy to be here. My spirituality is very nature based, I read religious and spiritual texts of all sorts and enjoy talking about it to a certain extent.

 

However.

 

These two girls are Christian and belong to a church that recruits actively. This church also forms the core group of homeschoolers in our town, which is how we became familiar with the church and some of it's members in the past.

 

Long story short, the girls are doing the normal thing. The other day they gave my daughter a bible. Fine. I have my own copy sitting next to me right now. Still - I have a feeling her parents wouldn't be too happy if I sent a copy of the Koran home with their children.

 

Now the invitations are starting - to a kid's club that I know from experience is chock-full of bible-based activities. I explained to my daughter what it was like when my sons attended a few times years ago and she agreed she wasn't into it, but then she said, "I don't know what to do. I don't want to hurt my friend's feelings, but I don't know what to say to her about it."

 

I've counselled her to simply say we aren't religious and she isn't interested in talking about it. She'll probably say she can't attend the kids club because she has other things to do. It's been my experience in the past, however, that these types of things just don't stop and I'm beginning to think I need to prep her to be "dropped" by these girls as soon as they realize they can't evangelize her.

 

Am I wrong? Is there some magic thing to say that will make them back off the evangelizing and just be her friend? The "you have to come to my church in order to be my friend" thing just fries me.

 

Sigh. As I said, we've been through this before. Some of you long-timers might remember a situation where a family of six kids made friends with my kids when we first moved here and did the exact same thing. (They're from the same church.) When we didn't join the church, they not only stopped talking to us - they forbid their children to come into our yard. The kids would ride their bikes over to our house and stand outside our chain-link fence talking to my kids, but when my kids invited them in, they would say, "We're not allowed to be friends with you," and ride away.

 

Argh!!!!!

 

I think I've answered my own question. These people get one or two more chances and then I forbid my daughter from playing with them.

[Starr]

Can you go talk with the parents?

[seraphina]

No advice really. We are active in our church and my kids enjoy inviting people to activities but I make sure they do it very low key, no pressure and not a big deal if they don't want to come. Plus I am selective about who I allow them to invite because I don't want them to lose friends over it, so they can only invite kids whose parents I know well.

 

I do feel sorry for your girls' friends. No child should have to chose friends based on their religion, that just seems cruel to me. I understand avoiding people that have done inappropriate things but limiting it to only church friends seems cultish.

[BillieBoy]

Oh my gosh, I remember your situation from a long time ago. So sorry you are going through it again! By the way, good job being neutral and sensitive in your explanation. :)

[kalanamak]

The kids would ride their bikes over to our house and stand outside our chain-link fence talking to my kids, but when my kids invited them in, they would say, "We're not allowed to be friends with you," and ride away.

 

 

Three different people have approached me at the playground, after sussing out I might be a homeschooler (I think my son told the kids), and I wasn't even invited to a church. Once it was known we were not religious, that was that. Much cooler next time, and soon, piling in the car and leaving whenever we were spotted. It was depressing, but not shocking.

 

More shocking was the hs mom we invited into the house (we used to live next to a park and kiddo regularly invited people home) who took one look at my science bookshelf and warned me how dangerous these books were, and that I would rue the day I allowed them in my house. She was talking about old earth material, and, I guess, just assumed I was religious.

 

Now the shoe is on the other foot. I've met a nice hs mom down the street, and I'm afraid for her to see my books, worried if I give her my copy of Life Finds Its Feet by Jacqui Bailey or show her the geological time line we are working so hard on, I will lose kiddo's neighborhood play chum. Perhaps she is worrying the same thing about me! :)

[Nestof3]

I would talk to their parents. Explain that you appreciate them caring about you and your family but that you are where you are with your beliefs. Tell them the best thing they can do is model their faith and love in their actions and leave the rest alone. Tell them you know where to find them if you ever change your mind, but please let it rest.

 

FWIW, I am a Christian.

[ElaineJ]

Have you gotten to know the mom at all? Maybe you could tell her how well-behaved her girls are and that your kids enjoy their friendship, then say something about your previous bad experience in a "I'm glad we can all just be friends without going through that!" sort of way. I would hate to prejudge this family based on the other family; perhaps it was less their church and more them as individuals? Of course, if you know a bunch of families from this same church and discern a pattern, that would be another thing.

 

Elaine

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm an evangelical Christian but if you were not interested then I would not continue to invite you, even though I would still be your friend. I also would not say anything to your child unless it was ok with you as the parent. I can't predict how these people are, of course. I think I'd want to know sooner rather than later if they won't continue the friendship. I would counsel your dd to either say "I'm not interested in church. I'd like to be your friends but without talking about that. Is that ok?" If she is not comfortable with that, I would advise her to do what I tell my kids to do in all sorts of social situations - blame Mom! "My mom does not want me talking about church or going to church related things."

[3Blessings]

Reading this, I was sad to hear that you fear your children will be rejected by a Christian family (and sad to hear that it had indeed already happened).

 

I am a Christian- one who sees it as a blessing to share my faith with others. I am naturally drawn to other Christians, of course, but I would not reject friendship with a person of no faith/other faith. I would probably not engage them in close friendship because my faith is so much a part of who I am, but I would not reject their friendship altogether. I think most Christians would agree that God does not call us to separate living with the world.

 

My suggestion is that you talk with the parents in a non-confrontational way. Maybe you could tell them the back story and they would have a better idea of where your hesitation is coming from. You could try just speaking to them from the heart with concern for your children.

 

Just a gentle question: have you considered letting your daughter go to the activity and make up her own mind? It doesn't sound like you have an opposing viewpoint to guard. Just a thought.

Edited September 28, 2011 by 3Blessings
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[GWOB]

No advice really. We are active in our church and my kids enjoy inviting people to activities but I make sure they do it very low key, no pressure and not a big deal if they don't want to come. Plus I am selective about who I allow them to invite because I don't want them to lose friends over it, so they can only invite kids whose parents I know well.

 

I do feel sorry for your girls' friends. No child should have to chose friends based on their religion, that just seems cruel to me. I understand avoiding people that have done inappropriate things but limiting it to only church friends seems cultish.

 

:iagree: I really like this.

 

OP, I totally understand. While I am a Christian, I do not feel called to evangelize the masses. I have a very dear friend who is quite NOT Christian. My kids love her kids. I love talking to her. I feel no need to convert her. We share a somewhat similar religious background, but have somehow diverged a bit on our own, PERSONAL spiritual paths. She is a wonderful friend and I could not imagine life without her input.

 

I don't know what you can do in this situation. I do not belong to an "evangelical" denomination, though I did grow up in one. I hate to admit it, but your dd's time with her friends is probably limited. I wish it wasn't so, but unfortunately it seems likely. You may want to prepare her.

 

I will be all obnoxious here and ask you for a favor. While you are discussing this family with your dd, can you just casually mention that there are in fact some Christians out there who really think loving others is more important than anything else? We are not all legalistic meanies.

[Guest IdahoMtnMom]

FWIW.... My mom was raised Nazarene and my Dad Southern Baptist. I landed in the only private school in our town at the time, which was Missouri Synod Lutheran. By the time I was 8, my parents were letting me attend churches of all faiths with friends... temple, mass, LDS, Calvary, non-denom... you name it.... and they let ME decide what I believed... And it led me to a place where I believe in God, the bible, Jesus... and not in organized religion.

 

You might let your daughter make up her own mind...

[kalanamak]

I'm an evangelical Christian but if you were not interested then I would not continue to invite you, even though I would still be your friend.

 

I suspect this is more about "people who aren't just like us are bad influences" than "since you won't go to my church, I'm not going to bother with you any more." Anyway, that is the feeling I've gotten -- that I might lead them astray by not having a SOF in my back pocket. Sad, really.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I suspect this is more about "people who aren't just like us are bad influences" than "since you won't go to my church, I'm not going to bother with you any more." Anyway, that is the feeling I've gotten -- that I might lead them astray by not having a SOF in my back pocket. Sad, really.

 

That's not only sad but inaccurate since I know so many very kind, moral and upstanding people who are not Christians. I wouldn't ask you a theological question but I don't tend to ask those on play dates anyway!

[kalanamak]

That's not only sad but inaccurate since I know so many very kind, moral and upstanding people who are not Christians. I wouldn't ask you a theological question but I don't tend to ask those on play dates anyway!

 

I suspect some churches make a strong Them vs. Us case to keep the Us united. I recall a letter sent (and printed in the school paper) to the counselor at the boarding school hubby's daughters went , from a girl who was in her freshman year at a state college. She recounted with horror that she had been offered a beer. Horror (she had no adjectives and adverbs left to describe anything more horrible, say, fatal car accident, rape, or leukemia.) And how grateful she was the counselor had warned her about these dangers. The counselor commented on the letter reminding all the kids about how evil the outside world was, and they should stick to each other (with a plug to go to the private college run by this denomination).

[Aubrey]

Have you gotten to know the mom at all? Maybe you could tell her how well-behaved her girls are and that your kids enjoy their friendship, then say something about your previous bad experience in a "I'm glad we can all just be friends without going through that!" sort of way. I would hate to prejudge this family based on the other family; perhaps it was less their church and more them as individuals? Of course, if you know a bunch of families from this same church and discern a pattern, that would be another thing.

 

Elaine

 

This. For two reasons. First, if there's no hope of salvaging the girls' friendship, I'd think the sooner you know, the better. Second...some of the behaviors you guys have described here over the years...well, before coming here, I'd never seen them from another point of view. Giving the mom a brief synopsis of your bad experience *could* help her to see another pov, & she just might be someone who listens/understands.

 

And I'm really sorry. I hope things work out better this time. :grouphug: Fwiw? I'd love to be friends w/ you irl, & I'd even talk theology w/ you. It's like philosophy: if you find someone who's willing/able to discuss it, it's so much fun. Especially when their ideas aren't canned.

[Rosie_0801]

You might let your daughter make up her own mind...

 

I wouldn't let my child make up her own mind about a group that would work towards putting her and I on different sides of the divide between "us" and "them." There's plenty of time for that sort of thing when they are too old for me to do anything about it.

 

Rosie

[3Blessings]

I wouldn't let my child make up her own mind about a group that would work towards putting her and I on different sides of the divide between "us" and "them." There's plenty of time for that sort of thing when they are too old for me to do anything about it.

 

Rosie

I think if you are strong in what you believe, you shouldn't let your children be given the right (while they live at home, are young, etc.) to decide their faith. I want my children to believe what I believe because it has eternal consequences and I believe it is TRUTH (not matter of opinion).

 

BUT, if you don't have ANY beliefs or aren't sure, why not look at them critically and try to decide if one of them you believe. Don't we try to teach children to think critically in other ways?

[Rosie_0801]

BUT, if you don't have ANY beliefs or aren't sure, why not look at them critically and try to decide if one of them you believe. Don't we try to teach children to think critically in other ways?

 

I was not talking about religious beliefs. I was talking about my beliefs about parent/child relationships. I would not drop my child at a church (or anywhere else) where people would teach her that they are the goodies and I am a baddie. In my view, people who try to drive a wedge between me and my children are the baddies and being involved with them is not an appropriate way of honing critical thinking skills, particularly with children too young to have much in the way of critical thinking skills. Parents and children can concoct enough of their own damaging dynamics without going elsewhere to ask for more.

 

Rosie

Edited September 28, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[WishboneDawn]

Just a gentle question: have you considered letting your daughter go to the activity and make up her own mind? It doesn't sound like you have an opposing viewpoint to guard. Just a thought.

 

I'm a Christian too but I can understand not wanting a child to go to something liek the OP described. These ARE kids and sometimes the heavy handed activities and peer pressure involved can be confusing, overwhelming and superficially convincing in a way that can cause a lot of friction in a family.

[WishboneDawn]

I think if you are strong in what you believe, you shouldn't let your children be given the right (while they live at home, are young, etc.) to decide their faith. I want my children to believe what I believe because it has eternal consequences and I believe it is TRUTH (not matter of opinion).

 

BUT, if you don't have ANY beliefs or aren't sure, why not look at them critically and try to decide if one of them you believe. Don't we try to teach children to think critically in other ways?

 

That wasn't Rosie's point. The point was that THIS church seems divisive and letting a child go to the activity might end up in her rejecting her family or at least causing a lot of pain within the family.

 

And no, I don't think, "let them make up their own mind," is valid with kids and I suspect you don't really believe that as well. Would you be fine with your kids attending a Pagan day camp and being heavily evangelized to the point where they might "make up their own mind" to turn away from Christianity?

[mom2denj]

Reading this, I was sad to hear that you fear your children will be rejected by a Christian family (and sad to hear that it had indeed already happened).

 

I am a Christian- one who sees it as a blessing to share my faith with others. I am naturally drawn to other Christians, of course, but I would not reject friendship with a person of no faith/other faith. I would probably not engage them in close friendship because my faith is so much a part of who I am, but I would not reject their friendship altogether. I think most Christians would agree that God does not call us to separate living with the world.

 

My suggestion is that you talk with the parents in a non-confrontational way. Maybe you could tell them the back story and they would have a better idea of where your hesitation is coming from. You could try just speaking to them from the heart with concern for your children.

 

Just a gentle question: have you considered letting your daughter go to the activity and make up her own mind? It doesn't sound like you have an opposing viewpoint to guard. Just a thought.

 

:iagree:As a christian, it is our responsibilty to share the word. However, I also agree that there are some churches that push too hard. My church preaches the truth for one to hear, but we do not push or judge. I have been to churches that are extremely overbearing. If these girls are not willing to be your dd's friend just because she will not go to church with them, then I believe that is a red flag. My children's friends for the majority are christian, but they have many that are not. :grouphug:

[Free]

I wouldn't let my child make up her own mind about a group that would work towards putting her and I on different sides of the divide between "us" and "them." There's plenty of time for that sort of thing when they are too old for me to do anything about it.

 

Rosie

 

:iagree: completely.

[Free]

I think if you are strong in what you believe, you shouldn't let your children be given the right (while they live at home, are young, etc.) to decide their faith. I want my children to believe what I believe because it has eternal consequences and I believe it is TRUTH (not matter of opinion).

 

BUT, if you don't have ANY beliefs or aren't sure, why not look at them critically and try to decide if one of them you believe. Don't we try to teach children to think critically in other ways?

 

I am not speaking for the OP here, but not picking a single religion to believe in is not the same as not having any beliefs.

 

I can be agnostic and let my child make up his mind about God. That does not mean that I will sit by when so called friends try to push their agenda on him, all the while showing scant respect for his boundaries.

[Blueridge]

... As I said, we've been through this before. Some of you long-timers might remember a situation where a family of six kids made friends with my kids when we first moved here and did the exact same thing. (They're from the same church.) When we didn't join the church, they not only stopped talking to us - they forbid their children to come into our yard. The kids would ride their bikes over to our house and stand outside our chain-link fence talking to my kids, but when my kids invited them in, they would say, "We're not allowed to be friends with you," and ride away...

 

:grouphug: Although we are certainly encouraged to lovingly share the 'good news' with the friends we meet and the families we have, I think this would break Jesus' heart to see us *drop* a new friend because of their different beliefs. We are to speak with love and kindness, always, and not be judgmental or prideful. I am sorry you are experiencing this kind of 'love-with-strings-attached'. Praying for your situation today.

[Josie]

The counselor commented on the letter reminding all the kids about how evil the outside world was, and they should stick to each other (with a plug to go to the private college run by this denomination).

 

This counselor needs to wake up! I feel I can say with *almost* certainty that the *horrible* act of drinking a beer goes on at private colleges of even the most strict denominations! I agree with Kalanamak...use horrible to describe things that are truly horrible.

[kwickimom]

ummm, I know you were burned before but do you know for sure these girls will drop your dd if she doesn't go to church? I wouldn't jump to conclusions. Just sit them down and talk to them. It is difficult to have friends from different religious views, but possible. One of my best friends is an atheist and I am Christian. She knows there is an open invite to church and I do my best to show her how much I love God through what I say and do and to live as an example.

 

I would just have a talk and say you all want to be friends, but that you feel uncomfortable with all the religious invites and that you would hate to lose them as friends over this. Tell them you appreciate what they are doing, respect their religion and ask them if the friendship can continue without the invites.

 

I as a Christian would never shun a person because they didnt want to go to my church. For all you know what that other family did to you was not advocated by the church or pastor and they were just rude people. These girls may do the same thing, but then again they might not. I wouldnt judge without talking to them. In essence you would be doing the same thing that other family did to you by forbidding them if they dont stop asking your dd to church ;)

[Jenny in Florida]

I wouldn't let my child make up her own mind about a group that would work towards putting her and I on different sides of the divide between "us" and "them." There's plenty of time for that sort of thing when they are too old for me to do anything about it.

 

Rosie

 

I agree.

 

As I've mentioned before, my family belongs to a Unitarian Universalist church. So, we're all about teaching kids about all religions and letting them explore. However, I absolutely would not let my child get involved with a church group that approached children directly without permission from parents or one that was as pushy as this one sounds.

 

I think, if it were me, that I would probably approach the mom of the children in this case and gently let her know that my daughter was not going to be allowed to go to activities with her kids. As someone else suggested, I might try to tell her how much my daughter enjoys playing with her children and how much I hope the religion thing won't get in the way.

 

That way, if the kids continue asking your daughter about it, your daughter can simply say that you already talked to their mom about it and the answer is no.

 

I'm a big fan of giving kids "plausible deniability."

[3Blessings]

I am not speaking for the OP here, but not picking a single religion to believe in is not the same as not having any beliefs.

 

I can be agnostic and let my child make up his mind about God. That does not mean that I will sit by when so called friends try to push their agenda on him, all the while showing scant respect for his boundaries.

 

I agree with boundaries. They should be respected once they are made known. As a parent we should help our kids understand boundaries and guard their own. My suggestion stemmed from a simple wondering what the boundaries are in a situation like this. If this were a devout Jewish family, for example, I would never have wondered.

 

I was not judging- just wondering.

[Puma Mom]

How old is your dd? Can she handle a conversation along the lines of "Is it possible for us to be friends and respect each other's differences about church and religion? I don't want to feel pressured to go to things at your church, and I don't want to wonder if you'll stop being friends with me if I don't go."

 

We are a solidly evangelical Christian family, as in dh is a pastor and pretty much everyone who knows us knows where we stand. That said, dd's bff is not a Christian. Dd would love it if she were--only because she loves her so much. She has invited bff to random things at church, but it's been limited. They are in each other's pockets so much it would have been weird if she didn't invite her to some things. I'd say in 8 years, she's invited her to VBS 5 times--she came one summer--and church picnics/festivals 10 times--she came to most of those. If they have sleepovers at our house on Sat. night, I always assume I'll be dropping off bff at home on the way to church.

 

Never did it occur to dd or us that she might drop bff because she wasn't a Christian. I find it sad that people would drop friends because of that. Yes, I'd have a problem with it if dd's relationship with bff were pulling her away from Christianity, but that's the only reason I could see it as an issue.

[Mommyfaithe]

I was not talking about religious beliefs. I was talking about my beliefs about parent/child relationships. I would not drop my child at a church (or anywhere else) where people would teach her that they are the goodies and I am a baddie. In my view, people who try to drive a wedge between me and my children are the baddies and being involved with them is not an appropriate way of honing critical thinking skills, particularly with children too young to have much in the way of critical thinking skills. Parents and children can concoct enough of their own damaging dynamics without going elsewhere to ask for more.

 

Rosie

 

I totally agree with you. I would not let my kids step foot into a church like that....I have had similar experiences with if you won't be our kind of Christian, we won't let you play with us.....and I AM a Christian...just not THAT kind.

My kids...who are bright, moral, wonderful people were shunned by a group of these weirdos.....sorry...oops...

 

They tried to "evangelize" us...and when they failed....cut us off from friendship, homeschool outings, turn their back to us at the skating rink etc. Now, I am a big girl, and as much as it hurt me, I can deal....but, I am still pissed as a hornet about how they treated my kids.

 

Seems their kids weren't all to happy either, and couldn't wait to grow up and move out as fast as possible.....oy!

 

I am very strong in my faith, and I do not feel threatened by anyone else's, but as soon as it becomes an us vs. Them scene...with me being the THEM and my child becoming the US....I am outa there...and so are my kiddoes.

 

Faithe

[Denisemomof4]

unfortunately, I have met many, many Christians who won't allow their child to associate with non-Christians. The parents also only befriend Christians. I think it's really sad.

 

I also hate that kids get "rewarded" for bringing friends to church. Many kids make this a competition. :glare:

 

If I were you, I'd put all the blame on myself. "My mom/parents don't allow us to go to church without them," or what ever you choose to say.

[Harriet Vane]

Aw Jennifer, I'm sorry.

 

I think a frank discussion with the mom might help things. Sometimes people don't think about how things appear until someone gently exposes them. Can you have a sweet discussion giving the back story and expressing your concerns? If you ask in so many words, "Can our kids be friends even if my children choose not to practice the same beliefs as your family?"

 

The only caution I would throw in is that you'll have to let your instincts guide you--some people can have that kind of discussion, and others cannot.

 

One other thing to think about is that some families may not intend to "drop" you as a friend, but just naturally end up in stronger friendships with the kids who are doing the same activities together. I do not doubt your experiences in the least--just saying that while many might actively restrict friendships with those of a different belief system, there are some who don't intend to do that but it happens anyway.

 

And for the record--I would gladly welcome your family as our friends. While I am very firm in my belief in God as I understand God from the Bible, I have never felt threatened by non-Christian friendships. I have always encouraged my children to seek to understand others' viewpoints. If God is who I believe God to be, God can withstand the scrutiny.

 

:grouphug:

[vonfirmath]

This sort of makes me think about the end of _A Bargain for Frances_ where Thelma and Frances decide that being careful is not nice, being friends is better.

[Paige]

Have you talked to the parents? My children are Christian. They are evangelical little kids. I have many atheist friends or friends of other faiths whose children are friends with mine. My kids desperately want to get their friends to love Jesus and come to church with them. If they had their way, they would be proselytizing all day. Because I know my friends' beliefs, I have instructed my kids to tone it down. I tell them we won't invite their kids to Vacation Bible School or Sunday School because I know they won't be allowed and we don't want to put their parents in an awkward situation. The friends are probably just trying to be nice. They have fun at church and want to play with your kids more. I think if you gently told the parents that you aren't interested then the invitations will probably stop. The parents may not even know that their children have been inviting yours or giving them things.

[annandatje]

Three different people have approached me at the playground, after sussing out I might be a homeschooler (I think my son told the kids), and I wasn't even invited to a church. Once it was known we were not religious, that was that. Much cooler next time, and soon, piling in the car and leaving whenever we were spotted. It was depressing, but not shocking.! :)

 

This is similar to our experiences. It took me a little longer than you to catch on since I was quite naive. Years ago, a homeschooling mom asked me if my children enjoyed the Harry Potter series. Naively I thought she was going to suggest that we all go together to see the latest Potter film the following Friday. In reality, it was a "litmus test" question to weed out those-people-who-are-not-religious-enough-for-my-children-to-socialize-with. Another mother inquired about my worldview; I thought she was asking me about philosophy.

 

If I had it to do all over again, I probably would casually mention that some evangelical youths may make what appears to be genuines gestures toward friendship but may only be interested in pursuing friendship if they can convert you to their religion. I would explain why they are driven to evangelize and warn them not take it personally if the girls cut them off. It could be as simple as not having enough time to socialize with people outside their religious circle since religious activities are time consuming for them. Or you could invite them to your church; we never had one accept an invitation to the UU church.

[laundrycrisis]

Am I wrong? Is there some magic thing to say that will make them back off the evangelizing and just be her friend? The "you have to come to my church in order to be my friend" thing just fries me.

 

 

Cut it off at the knees, yourself, since your DD has asked for help. Create a chance to speak with the girls directly, and tell them nicely that "our family does not choose a religion and DD will not be attending any religious activities with you. But she enjoys your company and I hope you can continue to be friends."

[Catwoman]

I think I've answered my own question. These people get one or two more chances and then I forbid my daughter from playing with them.

 

I absolutely understand why you would feel this way, but I also think you may be jumping to conclusions about your dd's friends and their parents.

 

If the friends truly enjoy their church-related activities, they may just want to be sure your dd doesn't miss out on all the fun. They might have asked their mom if they could invite your dd to some activities, and she thought it would be fine. She may not have even thought of it as a way to convert your dd to their religion; she may have just assumed that your dd would have a good time.

 

I know you're worried, and I would feel the same way in your situation. You don't want to let your dd get too attached to these girls, only to get dumped by them if she doesn't get involved with their church. But if you don't find out where the mom stands on all of this, you'll never know for sure what's going on.

 

I know a mom who is incredibly active in her church. She runs the Sunday school, and she and her dh run the youth group and the choir. She handles the fundraisers, is great friends with the pastor, and is basically a human dynamo. She invites everyone to her church, and her ds does, too. If there's a planned activity, they invite everyone they know. It's a small church and they probably need more members.

 

But my initial impressions (that she was a religious fanatic, trying to lure unsuspecting people into their church...:rolleyes:) were completely wrong. Sure, she wanted people to know more about her church, but she was fine with it if people told her it wasn't for them. She and her dh have lots of friends (honestly, everyone seems to like them) and many of those people are not Christian, or religious in any way.

 

My suggestion is that you invite the mom and her dds to go out for lunch together or to bring a picnic lunch to a park, and while the kids are playing together, you could gently broach the subject. You could say that you appreciate the invitations to the church functions, and that they sound like a lot of fun, but you're a bit concerned because your family doesn't share the same beliefs, and you are happy the way you are.

 

You may very well find out that the other mom has no intention of trying to do anything more than include your dd in her dds' activities. And if she has a problem with your dd not being part of the same church, and won't allow her dds to be friends with "different" kids, at least you'll know firsthand what's going on, and it will be sooner rather than later.

 

I think you really need to talk to the mom, but not in a "this is all about your church" sort of way -- more of a social lunch thing where you thank her for all the invitations and want to make sure she's ok with it that your dd won't be joining their church.

 

Cat

[JennifersLost]

Thank you everyone for such thoughtful replies.

 

I didn't realize how much I was bothered by it until I typed out my post and I've been thinking about it since.

 

For clarification, this particular church does have several beliefs that I don't agree with, so while I'm not against my children discovering their own faiths, I will not allow my daughter to attend this church as a young person. I respect her right to come to her own conclusions as an adult about these matters but they are way beyond her comprehension level at this point and I do not want her exposed to teachings that undermine my family's world view.

 

I will have a talk with the mother as soon as I can. What I don't like is the feeling that this family seems to have that it is okay to try to change my daughter. That isn't what friendship is about, nor do I like the implication that we're not raising her correctly.

 

As for the way we present other religions, lifestyles, cultures, etc - we're pretty open to all of it here and I think we've done a great job. My kids seem to not pre-judge people very much and are always surprised to find out that pre-judging exists or that they might be the target of it.

 

I basically am open to all kinds of people and world views, until I feel attacked or put down. Encroached on, as it were. :)

 

I also speak up when I feel the need to. I don't need to change other people's points of view, necessarily - but I won't allow it to be assumed that I agree with things tacitly if I really don't.

 

I plan to talk things over with my daughter and try to give her the words she needs to express herself in these matters. I guess one way to look at this is as a chance to practice a skill that she'll need all her life. Expressing yourself to people who have different opinions and walking that fine line between holding your ground while not being insensitive is definitely a skill!

[Mergath]

I wouldn't let my child make up her own mind about a group that would work towards putting her and I on different sides of the divide between "us" and "them." There's plenty of time for that sort of thing when they are too old for me to do anything about it.

 

Rosie

 

:iagree: And then there's the fact that way, way too many of these sorts of groups use the fear of hell as a motivating factor. I have no problem with my dd making up her own mind about faith when she's older, but I will not have her terrified into picking a specific religion just because some adult thinks she's doing dd a favor by describing the horrors of hell. In great detail. And then telling dd how she could die any minute and spend eternity there. No, no, no.

 

Can you tell I went to both Awanas and Missionettes as a chld? ;) My dd will go to either of these groups over my dead body.

[laundrycrisis]

I absolutely understand why you would feel this way, but I also think you may be jumping to conclusions about your dd's friends and their parents.

 

If the friends truly enjoy their church-related activities, they may just want to be sure your dd doesn't miss out on all the fun. They might have asked their mom if they could invite your dd to some activities, and she thought it would be fine. She may not have even thought of it as a way to convert your dd to their religion; she may have just assumed that your dd would have a good time.

 

 

They gave the OP's DD a Bible. IMO this definitely smells like a conversion project.

[Margo out of lurking]

..

[Catwoman]

They gave the OP's DD a Bible. IMO this definitely smells like a conversion project.

 

I was thinking that perhaps the kids did it on their own, but you're probably right. :blush:

 

I'm just hoping that once the mom knows where the OP stands, that she will be OK with the kids remaining friends -- on the OP's terms.

[Parker Martin]

I was an atheist when I was in school, and most of my friends were evangelical Christians. They shared the Gospel with me all the time. I shared with them why I was an atheist all the time. No big deal.

 

I wouldn't expect them to quiet down about their beliefs. Why should they? Your daughter can express hers too. They might have some great conversations.

 

If the parents forbid friendship, there's not much one can do, but just because one family from the same church did that does not mean that this family will.

[Catwoman]

For clarification, this particular church does have several beliefs that I don't agree with, so while I'm not against my children discovering their own faiths, I will not allow my daughter to attend this church as a young person. I respect her right to come to her own conclusions as an adult about these matters but they are way beyond her comprehension level at this point and I do not want her exposed to teachings that undermine my family's world view.

 

I agree completely. I can't imagine allowing my ds to go to someone's home, knowing that the family is going to try to undermine my authority or try to turn my son against me in any way.

 

I will have a talk with the mother as soon as I can. What I don't like is the feeling that this family seems to have that it is okay to try to change my daughter. That isn't what friendship is about, nor do I like the implication that we're not raising her correctly.

 

If you truly believe that this is the case, and that the family disapproves of the way you're raising your dd and that they have taken it upon themselves to change her, I'm glad to hear you plan to speak with the mom ASAP. I didn't realize from your original post that they were being quite so pushy about it.

 

Is there anything specific that led you to these conclusions about the family? Has the mom actually said anything to your dd, or has everything come from the kids? If everything you have heard has come from the two girls, that may be less worrisome than if it's coming straight from the mom.

 

Whatever the case, you'll know for sure what's going on, once you speak with the mother. She could turn out to be very nice, or she could be someone you never want to see again -- do you know her at all, or is she friendly with any of your friends? Maybe someone else from your homeschool group could give you a heads-up about her.

 

basically am open to all kinds of people and world views, until I feel attacked or put down. Encroached on, as it were. :)

 

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me!

 

Realistically, I think you need to go with your gut feeling on this. It doesn't sound like you're the kind of person who gets paranoid over the slightest little thing, so if red flags are popping up in your mind about this family, you're probably right about them. I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, because it sounds like your dd likes their dds, but if you have any misgivings about the mom after you speak with her, it might be time to start distancing your family from hers. I hope she turns out to be OK, though, so the kids can still be friends.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Catwoman

[Parker Martin]

And I've had a Muslim friend give me a Qur'an.

 

If someone is sharing his faith with you, take it as a compliment. Be offended if someone who believes you're going to hell doesn't care enough to attempt to save you.

[Catwoman]

Is there some magic thing to say that will make them back off the evangelizing and just be her friend? The "you have to come to my church in order to be my friend" thing just fries me.

 

I meant to ask you this in my last post, but I'm wondering if these kids actually came right out and said that your dd had to attend their church in order to be their friend, or if it's just a feeling you're getting from them.

 

Because if they came out and said something like that, I think your decision has already been made for you, and you'll probably end up having to tell the mom that the kids can't be friends any more. If they only want friends from their church, and you're not going to join, there's no other option.

 

What a shame. I can't understand it when people are so narrow-minded that they won't be friends with anyone who is even slightly different from them. :confused:

[JennifersLost]

And I've had a Muslim friend give me a Qur'an.

 

If someone is sharing his faith with you, take it as a compliment. Be offended if someone who believes you're going to hell doesn't care enough to attempt to save you.

 

It has certainly occurred to me to send these girls home with a tract that reflects our beliefs, but this ain't the big city and the people tend to take things pretty darn seriously. One mom from this church confided to another mom that she didn't want her kids coming to my house because I had a print of a Hindu deity on my walls.

 

I love that print. It's of the goddesses associated with abundance and I have hung it near my spice cabinet in every home I've lived in for the past 14 years. (somehow spices make me think of abundance). She reminds me that there is enough for everyone and to be generous with helping others and to not live fearfully because of perceived "lack".

 

I do not feel bad that I have that print on my wall! And the fact that I have to think twice about whether or not to hang it in my house where guests can see it or else my children might be shunned is an aspect of life that I still find unbelievable.

 

Anyway.

 

I won't have the chance to have this conversation with the other mom for a few days, but I won't assume it will fail until I try.

[laundrycrisis]

I was an atheist when I was in school, and most of my friends were evangelical Christians. They shared the Gospel with me all the time. I shared with them why I was an atheist all the time. No big deal.

 

I wouldn't expect them to quiet down about their beliefs. Why should they? Your daughter can express hers too. They might have some great conversations.

 

If the parents forbid friendship, there's not much one can do, but just because one family from the same church did that does not mean that this family will.

 

It's fine for them to offer information and invitations in a friendly way. But if they continue to push it after the person on the receiving end has passed them the bean dip, that would not be respectful of another person's boundaries about something very personal.

[Laurie4b]

 

My suggestion is that you talk with the parents in a non-confrontational way. Maybe you could tell them the back story and they would have a better idea of where your hesitation is coming from. You could try just speaking to them from the heart with concern for your children.

 

 

 

:iagree: I would talk with the parents and tell the previous story. Explain how hurtful that was and say that you would like to avoid that again,but that if that will be the result again, that you would like to cut the losses now.

 

Given the experience, I would be prepared to be evangelized during the meeting with the parents, but maybe not.

 

We are Christians in a church that certainly considers evangelism part of the expression of our faith. However, in our relatively large church, I cannot imagine anyone who would consider what happened to you previously even remotely appropriate, kind, or consistent with our faith. Some particular denominations or church bodies may develop a particular mindset that isn't representative of even other people who might otherwise be fairly close to them theologically. I'm sorry for your previous experience and hope this one is different.

[beccad777]

Have you talked to the parents? My children are Christian. They are evangelical little kids. I have many atheist friends or friends of other faiths whose children are friends with mine. My kids desperately want to get their friends to love Jesus and come to church with them. If they had their way, they would be proselytizing all day. Because I know my friends' beliefs, I have instructed my kids to tone it down. I tell them we won't invite their kids to Vacation Bible School or Sunday School because I know they won't be allowed and we don't want to put their parents in an awkward situation. The friends are probably just trying to be nice. They have fun at church and want to play with your kids more. I think if you gently told the parents that you aren't interested then the invitations will probably stop. The parents may not even know that their children have been inviting yours or giving them things.

 

 

:iagree: My kids are like this, especially my oldest. I have no problem with my kids asking other kids to go to church with them. They think church is fun and want to share the fun. I kind of see it along the same line as kids inviting other kids to say, scouts or a neighborhood picnic. These things are fun and kids naturally want to share the fun. If a parent of a friend said they didn't want anymore invitations, then I would tell my kids to quit inviting them. I wouldn't tell them not to be friends anymore unless the friend was being a bad influence and I could not resolve the situation any other way.

 

It honestly wouldn't cross my mind to ask the parents if they minded if my kids invited their kids to church or any other fun outing we were doing. They would obviously have to get permission before they came, but I wouldn't have thought it would be offensive. I wouldn't be offended if one of my kids' friends, of a different faith, asked them to go to their church. I would probably say no, but I wouldn't get all upset about it. I would be surprised if an invitation DIDN'T come. Kids naturally want to share experiences with their friends. It's just the way it is.

 

To the OP, I would not judge these new friends by what the old friends did. That's just not fair. I know that you don't want your DD to get hurt, but maybe the other family was just weird and rude. I hope things work out for your DD and her new friends!:001_smile: