I'm livid! Any bankers here?

[Lovin Learnin]

Ds #2 is a new college student living away on campus. A couple of weeks ago he noticed three ATM transactions for less than $20 each on his debit card that he did not make. They were all made on the same day, two at different ATMs on campus and the other at a 7-11. He called Chase and they said "Yes, these transactions were yours so there is nothing more to talk about." What? I made him call back and have the card canceled and start an investigation.

 

So yesterday Chase concluded that ONE of the charges was fraudulent (the one at 7-11) but the other two were not. Their reasoning is that the other two follow some kind of supposed pattern of his ATM usage. He did NOT make these transactions. Ds asked if the ATM machines took pictures of the user and they said that the ones on campus do not. In addition, they sent him two new ATM cards with two different numbers. One went to him on campus and the other came to our home. When asked why they said it was an accident.

 

What is going on here? They refunded the 7-11 charge but I can't imagine they can just decide the others must be him. He has only used the card at the bookstore since he has been on campus so what pattern has he established? He also has never used an ATM more than once in any given day since he has opened his account. Do we have any recourse? There must be something we can do.

[Ria]

I believe you have no recourse with a debit card. The banks don't have to refund you if the card is stolen and used by someone else. Many banks do, and many more put a limit on how much they will refund, but from what I understand it is up to the individual bank to set the policy...something everyone should be aware of if they use a debit card. ETA: get a credit card for him. Much safer.

[Liz CA]

Not a banker here...but large banks sadly lack in customer service. I recently heard that Chase along with Wells Fargo and Bank of America are the worst.

This is why we have switched to a small local bank - or I would also consider a credit union. These days, it's not as inconvenient it once was as most ATM transactions are possible on any ATM machine even if it's not your bank. Our bank does not charge extra for using other ATMs either.

Perhaps it's time to shop around a little - but I know for a college student it's all about convenience.

[Lovin Learnin]

I believe you have no recourse with a debit card. The banks don't have to refund you if the card is stolen and used by someone else.

 

It all seems very fishy to me because he still has the card in his possession and always did.

[Lovin Learnin]

Not a banker here...but large banks sadly lack in customer service. I recently heard that Chase along with Wells Fargo and Bank of America are the worst.

This is why we have switched to a small local bank - or I would also consider a credit union. These days, it's not as inconvenient it once was as most ATM transactions are possible on any ATM machine even if it's not your bank. Our bank does not charge extra for using other ATMs either.

Perhaps it's time to shop around a little - but I know for a college student it's all about convenience.

 

I will shop around. Maybe a credit union would be a good choice. Thanks for the idea.

[Ria]

It all seems very fishy to me because he still has the card in his possession and always did.

 

It's so easy to steal a number and make a new card. Google it. Happens all. the. time. Has happened to my dad at a gas station in NJ. Happened to my co-workers. I won't use a debit card. :)

[melissel]

Chase is notorious for its horrible customer service. I haven't had any really bad experiences with Wells Fargo yet (but I'm about to call them and ask why they lowered my ATM withdrawal maximum :glare:).

 

Does his ATM card have a MasterCard or Visa logo on it? Is he VERY sure he didn't use the card? To have gotten cash from an ATM, someone would have had to have a physical card and PIN number--it's not as if someone made an online purchase with just the card number. Could one of his friends have gotten hold of his card and then put it back?

 

Frankly, I'd take it up the chain on this, but I would prepared to be disappointed and to switch banks. And I agree, get the boy a credit card. I hate using my debit card :glare:

[Ria]

Here's a link that mentions skimmers....

 

http://www.bankrate.com/financing/credit-cards/11-ways-to-protect-against-debit-card-fraud/

[melissel]

It's so easy to steal a number and make a new card. Google it. Happens all. the. time. Has happened to my dad at a gas station in NJ. Happened to my co-workers. I won't use a debit card. :)

 

Really?! I didn't know it was that easy! I knew it was easy to get a card number, but not to make a physical new card! Ugh, that's it, I think I'm retiring my debit card.

[curlylocks]

<snip>...but large banks sadly lack in customer service. I recently heard that Chase along with Wells Fargo and Bank of America are the worst. <snip>

This is why we have switched to a small local bank - or I would also consider a credit union. Perhaps it's time to shop around a little - but I know for a college student it's all about convenience.

 

:iagree:

 

I wonder if his # was stolen and a fake, duplicate card was made? (It's very possible...;) )

[Ria]

Really?! I didn't know it was that easy! I knew it was easy to get a card number, but not to make a physical new card! Ugh, that's it, I think I'm retiring my debit card.

 

Yep. Evidently it's very easy, and thieves are getting very, very clever (hidden cameras at ATMs to collect PIN numbers)....scary.

[melissel]

Yep. Evidently it's very easy, and thieves are getting very, very clever (hidden cameras at ATMs to collect PIN numbers)....scary.

 

You know, we're trying to be cash-only here, but between the bank restricting my ATM withdrawals and the security risks, I'm starting to wonder if we're just setting ourselves up for trouble :( Thanks for pointing this out for me, I really didn't know. I'll have to discuss this with DH tonight *sigh*

[Liz CA]

Here's a link that mentions skimmers....

 

http://www.bankrate.com/financing/credit-cards/11-ways-to-protect-against-debit-card-fraud/

 

Yikes.

[Amy1k]

It's so easy to steal a number and make a new card. Google it. Happens all. the. time. Has happened to my dad at a gas station in NJ. Happened to my co-workers. I won't use a debit card. :)

 

I've had this happen to me. Someone was able to recreate my card and went on a one-day, $1000+ shopping spree before my bank locked my account. I figured out what was happening when I saw the charges on my account the next day.

[chepyl]

 

Frankly, I'd take it up the chain on this, but I would prepared to be disappointed and to switch banks. And I agree, get the boy a credit card. I hate using my debit card :glare:[/quote)

 

Are you really suggesting a credit card for a 19 year old?

[Amy1k]

My bank took the hit and refunded my account.

[Lovin Learnin]

Does his ATM card have a MasterCard or Visa logo on it? Is he VERY sure he didn't use the card? To have gotten cash from an ATM, someone would have had to have a physical card and PIN number--it's not as if someone made an online purchase with just the card number. Could one of his friends have gotten hold of his card and then put it back?

 

Frankly, I'd take it up the chain on this, but I would prepared to be disappointed and to switch banks. And I agree, get the boy a credit card. I hate using my debit card :glare:

 

His card is a Visa. Does that matter? And believe me, I've asked him a billion times if he is positive it was not him. He is positive and I do believe him. He doesn't have much money to begin with and he's very frugal so he knew exactly when, where and how much he has spent since he's been on campus. He does not have any close friends on campus but I can't positively discount an acquaintance lifting his card and returning it.

 

For them to admit that any of the transactions is fraudulent is crazy. Why one but not the others? I'm starting to wonder if the 7-11 ATM machine did have a camera on it and they know it was not him so that is why they refunded that transaction to him.

[melissel]

 

Frankly, I'd take it up the chain on this, but I would prepared to be disappointed and to switch banks. And I agree, get the boy a credit card. I hate using my debit card :glare:[/quote)

 

Are you really suggesting a credit card for a 19 year old?

 

Are all 19-year-olds completely untrustworthy with money? A low-limit credit card seems to be less problematic than a debit card at this point.

[LinRTX]

I agree. We actually give our 17 yo a credit card. They get their licence and they get a credit card. It is under our account, so we see what is happening. I want them to be able to handle an emergency easily and to stop at the store for me.

 

They do not have free range with the credit card. And if there is a problem, the card goes. We have done this 3 times now and have only had to take back a card for a month once.

 

Linda

[bbkaren]

He should use the VISA function, NOT the atm function, anytime he makes a purchase. That way at least you have some recourse.

 

As far as the ATM withdrawals go, you're at the mercy of his word/memory.

 

Not to disparage your kid, but he is 19. Isn't it possible he might not remember making the transactions...even though you've asked him a million times? It hardly seems worth the torment you're putting yourselves through.

 

If it's his money, he'll have to count it as a learning experience and be more cautious. If it's your money, maybe you can ask the bank for a lower daily limit to at least limit your exposure.

 

It would seem if someone were going to take a chance on fraud, they'd have taken more than a couple dollars...

[Mrs Mungo]

Are they sure they are from actual ATM machines?

 

Dh had his number stolen, someone made a new card and withdrew $300 in Utah. We were living in Hawaii and traveling in Kansas at the time. The bank called us immediately. They refunded us, sent us new cards, etc. This is what usually happens with skimmers and such. The cards are sent all over.

 

I left my card in an ATM machine and someone used it for gas close to my house before I realized it was missing. The bank refunded the money because they could see that the ATM had gone through before the card was used at the gas station. That was in Hawaii, so they were lucky to guess the correct zipcode. There aren't that many of them on a small island.

 

But, in this situation? I wonder if they are debits that your son forgot about? Can he go to the physical locations and check?

[OLG]

This is us exactly, too. 17 y/o who is responsible has a credit card and it is so much safer than debit or worrying about what he would do in an emergency 1800 miles away. Kids need to learn about responsible use of credit in today's world. And to the OP, maybe your ds could avoid using an ATM that doesn't have a camera if you do decide to keep the debit card? Chase is lousy with customer service since they farm it all out but if you specifically ask for the fraud department you might get some action! I have had to do that before with charges not made by us. Still, not what one would expect in terms of level of service but much better than simple customer service!

[Annie G]

Chase is a large part of the problem here. Last week my debit card number was stolen and used to try to charge something. My bank flagged it (it was a test charge of 3 cents), called me, cancelled my card, and overnighted a new card to me.

Sure, they could have just let it go and let someone fraudulently use my card. But they didn't.

 

Customer service can and does exist- Chase is just not employing any reasonable level of customer service. How frustrating for your son!

[chepyl]

 

Are all 19-year-olds completely untrustworthy with money? A low-limit credit card seems to be less problematic than a debit card at this point.

 

It is not a matter of trust. I don't think anyone should use credit cards. I wish I had never had one. I have never run up major credit card debt, but it can become a crutch.

 

A 19 year old should be balancing a checkbook, learning to manage money.

 

To the OP, does your bank not offer any protection? My bank offers at least $1000 fraud protection at no cost. It is a big chain bank. If they do, make sure you are signed up for the future.

[bettyandbob]

I've never had a debit card, simply for the reason that banks are under no obligation to go after money that is stolen from accounts. My plan is for oldest ds, who will be 17, to have a credit card. We will set the account limit around $500. The only time that limit should be tested is at the beginning of the first and second semester when ds is still figuring out how to economically get books, but I think he will figure it out.

[Denise in Florida]

Yes, you have recourse. Write them and formally contest the charges. Also ask if they have an ombudsman for dispute resolution.

 

Immediately start keeping a log of every contact with the bank. They will try to ignore this if they can. But all the banks are in such a media disaster due to the economy/mortage issue that they will most likely clear the disputed amounts rather than waste time investigating it.

[Ria]

 

It is not a matter of trust. I don't think anyone should use credit cards. I wish I had never had one. I have never run up major credit card debt, but it can become a crutch.

 

A 19 year old should be balancing a checkbook, learning to manage money.

 

 

In today's world, I think a 19-yr old should learn how to manage money with a credit card, learn how not to carry a balance, how to budget, and learn how to never spend beyond his means. There are many of us who use credit cards for the rewards programs (for example, we get a percentage off gas and groceries) and NEVER carry a balance.

 

Used properly, credit cards can save lots of money. Used irresponsibly, they can be a disaster.

[bettyandbob]

 

It is not a matter of trust. I don't think anyone should use credit cards. I wish I had never had one. I have never run up major credit card debt, but it can become a crutch.

 

 

While my college years (in the 1980s) involved check books and no credit cards, it is really not possible to replicate this. I've been touring campuses and looking at this issue.

 

I've never run up debt on a credit card. I pay it off every month. I don't use it if I don't have the money to pay it off. There's no reason anyone can't learn to treat a credit card this way. It's just being responsible. I supposed if a person looks at a credit card like candy and can't stop himself then he shouldn't have one, but there's nothing wrong with having a card you pay off monthly and it's safer than debit options.

[Night Elf]

That happened to me many, many years ago. When they wouldn't resolve it to my satisfaction, I marched in there and told them to close my accounts and give me the cash. THEN they wanted to make amends. I told them too late. I want customer service that shows they care about the customer, not that shows they care about their bottom line. Period.

 

Looking back, I wonder if my age had anything to do with it. Your son is young AND he is on a college campus. My guess is that they know this and figure he won't create a fuss since it's stereotypical for college kids to spend their money quickly.

 

I have my dd19 use her credit card for everything and pay it off each month. She treats it exactly like her debit card, only it's safer to use, IMHO.

 

The credit card isn't evil, I believe it's a knowledge thing. I made stupid mistakes with a credit card at age 18 but my mom was encouraging me. She believed in the buy it now and pay for it later concept. She also believed that having to pay only a minimum amount each month meant that we were enjoying things for nearly free. Yep! That's what I learned about credit cards. Dd19 has so much more knowledge and has used her card very responsibly.

[Ohdanigirl]

It all seems very fishy to me because he still has the card in his possession and always did.

 

Cards get cloned all the time. He really needs to keep an eye on his card. I mean, watch the sales person. Make sure it is only swiped on the correct machine.

 

This happened to my father at a major mall. The young sales girl swiped the card in some hand held device. My dad noticed, but thought it was the way the store charges things. When he received a phone call from the bank about some hefty charges, he recalled that shopping trip. The young lady was arrested. He was told that this was becoming much more common.

 

Danielle

[Night Elf]

It is not a matter of trust. I don't think anyone should use credit cards. I wish I had never had one. I have never run up major credit card debt, but it can become a crutch.

 

Ah, but not everyone agrees with that. DH and I read Dave Ramsey, for example, and got some great ideas, but we completely disagree with his idea about avoiding credit at all costs. We like credit. Credit is good. Credit allows us to live in a house and drive a nice, reliable car. It also allows us to handle some emergencies that would require money NOW and not when we can transfer it to a useable form. I can't stand the idea of my dd19 driving without a credit card. What if she gets a blowout and needs to buy a new tire, but doesn't have the cash on her or in her bank account? It's an extreme example, but it is certainly a possibility. I've had to have a tire replaced and the shop had to come out to where I was because I can't change a tire. (I've tried and tried to learn but I just don't have the upper body strength. My exhusband laughed and laughed when he saw me trying to jump on the jack. I nearly sprained my ankle!) I've been in an accident and had to use a credit card to get a rental car to get home. The insurance company did reimburse me but they didn't arrange and pay for the car before I got there. I can't imagine what I would have done if I didn't have the credit card. I didn't have anyone to call that wasn't at least a 2-hr drive away.

[TravelingChris]

I don't see any reason not to let a reasonably teenager use a credit card. My middle has had one since last year when she was 17. She has only used it with my permission, it has a low enough limit that I am comfortable with me paying off if she did go nuts, but it gives me security that she can use the card in an emergency.

[Scarlett]

I have had the same debit card for 20 years with my credit union. I've asked repeatedly if it is as safe as a credit card and they have told me yes every time. It has a Visa logo if that matters---but they did tell me that if the card was used by a thief in any way I would not be responsible for the charges.

[bettyandbob]

I have had the same debit card for 20 years with my credit union. I've asked repeatedly if it is as safe as a credit card and they have told me yes every time. It has a Visa logo if that matters---but they did tell me that if the card was used by a thief in any way I would not be responsible for the charges.

 

 

Sounds good as long as you have the policy the credit union is following in writing. And you know when the credit union changes policies. Most people do not read all the papers banks and credit unions send out when they changes policies.

[Lovin Learnin]

Thanks for all of the replies, everyone. For those who have asked I have to say I am nearly 100% certain these charges were not his. Yes he is only 18 but he is responsible and is rather hermit like with his money. He also has a pretty good memory and I'm sure he would know if he used his card multiple times in one day. Besides, it is not like him to ATM hop on a single day. Also, why would Chase admit one of the charges was fraudulent? What are the chances he would have used his card twice and then someone fraudulently used it that same day? Personally, I think they had to claim the one charge was fraudulent because they have a picture of whoever did use it and it is not my son.

 

DH stopped at a branch on his way home from work and explained what was going on the the manager. The manager replied that the circumstances sound suspicious to him so he is going to call customer service on son's behalf and try to work it out. DH and I plus our older ds all have Chase accounts so I'm sure they don't want to lose our business.

 

And I have been pretty successful in teaching my children that credit card balances are nothing more than indentured slavery so while I like the fact they are safer against fraud than debit cards I really do not want to encourage their use, at least not at his age.

[kalanamak]

Cards get cloned all the time. He really needs to keep an eye on his card. I mean, watch the sales person. Make sure it is only swiped on the correct machine.

 

 

Hubby bought some carpet. The lady took the card back (it was a whole house of carpet) to the office, came back with a portable phone and said that the Chase people wanted some info from him. Thank goodness the dufus couldn't even remember his birthday (he has a terrible memory for certain things). They told him he could use the card and were grumpy. He asked if this meant the card was frozen and it was not.

 

Two days later the card was frozen, but because it was used in a bad part of LA 1000 miles from us. Chase had no record of anything at this big, fancy carpet place. The lady was a rip off, and I bet the person on the phone was her sister. Hubby was soundly warned to only call the number on the back for himself.

[QuirkyKapers]

Aren't there credit cards that you can now load money onto? That way you can only spend as much is on the card, like a gift card but a credit card. I think we were thinking of this at some point.

[Serendipity]

Dave Ramsey recommends a $1000 emergency fund for...emergencies. So, if my tire blows out, I use a portion of my emergency fund to pay for repairs. :)

[Bootsie]

Ds #2 is a new college student living away on campus. A couple of weeks ago he noticed three ATM transactions for less than $20 each on his debit card that he did not make. .

 

Unfortunately, a bank is not legally required to refund you for fraudulent ATM withdrawals or debit card charges. Are you sure that these are ATM transactions? Many ATM machines will only dispense in $20 increments. If they were for odd amounts, they probably are not ATM transactions.

[Barb_]

And I have been pretty successful in teaching my children that credit card balances are nothing more than indentured slavery so while I like the fact they are safer against fraud than debit cards I really do not want to encourage their use, at least not at his age.

 

Good to hear the bank is going to work with him. But really, if I were you, I would rethink your position regarding a credit card. At the very least, he should have a low limit card to carry in case of an emergency. He wouldn't need to use it except as an insurance policy.

[Barb_]

Dave Ramsey recommends a $1000 emergency fund for...emergencies. So, if my tire blows out, I use a portion of my emergency fund to pay for repairs. :)

 

A college student typically doesn't have access to this kind of cash.

[Bootsie]

Aren't there credit cards that you can now load money onto? That way you can only spend as much is on the card, like a gift card but a credit card. I think we were thinking of this at some point.

 

American Express offers a "PASS" card for exactly these purposes. It is somewhat the modern day version of travelers' checks. It is safer than having your teen carry cash but it isn't a credit card.

[Lovin Learnin]

Unfortunately, a bank is not legally required to refund you for fraudulent ATM withdrawals or debit card charges. Are you sure that these are ATM transactions? Many ATM machines will only dispense in $20 increments. If they were for odd amounts, they probably are not ATM transactions.

 

They were for $20, $17.50 and $16.13, I think. I thought that was strange as well. All three are marked as ATM transactions on the bank statement. Again, ds asked about these strange amounts and was only told they were his charges. Very frustrating.

 

And while I understand that legally they may not be liable for the charges I just don't understand their insistence that these charges aren't fraudulent and ds made them. How can they know that? You would think that if a customer disputes a charge you take them seriously, regardless of age. They never once suggested he close the card or the account. When they issued TWO replacement cards with different account numbers and sent one to our home address and the other to him it seriously made me wonder if this was an inside job. I kept wondering if someone meant to send the second card to themselves. Of course, I am a conspiracy theorist by nature. :tongue_smilie:

[Lovin Learnin]

Aren't there credit cards that you can now load money onto? That way you can only spend as much is on the card, like a gift card but a credit card. I think we were thinking of this at some point.

 

This may be an answer. It would be a pain getting his paycheck from his checking acct to his card on a regular basis though.

[Barb_]

This may be an answer. It would be a pain getting his paycheck from his checking acct to his card on a regular basis though.

 

No, it's easy! He (or you) can transfer money electronically online.

[Lovin Learnin]

No, it's easy! He (or you) can transfer money electronically online.

 

Oooo...I like that! I'll look into it further and let him know. Thanks!

[QueenCat]

Are you really suggesting a credit card for a 19 year old?

 

I made sure my kids had credit cards when they started driving and traveling without us. No way was I going to have them without one. Not everyone who gets a credit card is irresponsible, even at young ages.

[QueenCat]

 

In today's world, I think a 19-yr old should learn how to manage money with a credit card, learn how not to carry a balance, how to budget, and learn how to never spend beyond his means. There are many of us who use credit cards for the rewards programs (for example, we get a percentage off gas and groceries) and NEVER carry a balance.

 

Used properly, credit cards can save lots of money. Used irresponsibly, they can be a disaster.

 

:iagree: All of the above are points we've emphasized with our children. We do not have debit cards, only "ATM" cards that cannot be used as debit cards, intentionally.

[angela in ohio]

That's one of the reasons we bank at a local credit union. They are incredibly responsive, and as your dh found out, talking to a person gets a lot more response than calling on the phone. Ours refunds first and investigates later. We don't use credit cards, and we have no trouble with our debit card with a Visa logo with the credit union.

 

There may be a student credit union at his school. Or prepaid credit cards may be another option, as pp said. That's our plan for dd when she starts driving.

 

I don't understand how someone could use his ATM card with his PIN. Does he have the PIN written in his wallet or on the card? Maybe someone swiped it and then returned it?

[Parrothead]

They were for $20, $17.50 and $16.13, I think. I thought that was strange as well. All three are marked as ATM transactions on the bank statement. Again, ds asked about these strange amounts and was only told they were his charges. Very frustrating.

 

:tongue_smilie:

Okay, so these were supposed to be amounts taken from an ATM machine or are they purchases made using a debit card?

 

If they are supposed to be ATM withdrawals, take the statement and go talk to the bank manager. ATMs only hand out 20 dollar bills. There is no possible way a person would get $17.50 or $16.13 from a machine.

 

If they are showing up as ATM withdrawals when they are debit card purchases it may just be a mistake.

 

Also take both new cards to the branch manager. Calmly explain the situation to him and find out what is going on. If you can't get a decent logical answer, change banks.