Scout drama - and I thought cheerleaders were bad

[stansclan89]

Obviously the boy in the OP is a decent kid who made a bad choice. That's how most kids are.

 

Those who think name calling is soem sort of unusual activity among kids just bc its distasteful are delusional, really.

 

There is no reason he should be made to leave scouts for this, that's for sure.

 

:iagree:

 

 

I can completely understand your perspective with the added details...but I'm still alarmed that you choose the word "possibly" as it going against the Scout oath and law...it most definitely is...it's either within the scout spirit or it's not..there is no possibly about it. Do you want your son to possibly live up to the oath or definitely live up to the oath.

 

 

 

Name calling has not been seen as bad in this troop for at least the last 5 years (since he is 14). How could it be seen as against the scout oath? (rhetorical question--I don't want a discussion of this)

 

What was your son supposed to be carrying back? Did he have a cooler of his own or something heavier than the other kid? I hope this is not a situation of new boys being made to be the mules while the older boys are the overseers.

 

She said earlier that each of the four boys had their share of the meal and her son carried both his share and the other boys share the rest of the way back to camp.

[KungFuPanda]

It's not a bad thing to be a cheerleader or a Girl Scout or a girl. It's no mystery that a situation developed in a climate where the parents, leaders, and boys are comfortable using 'girl' as an insult or truly believe that only Christians are capable of leadership.

 

Yes, this is kid stuff, and it's not an unusual situation for hot, frustrated children to act inappropriately. I wouldn't, however, trust a group with those values to reach a 'fair' decision, put aside their own egos, and make decisions with an eye towards shaping these boys to be the best young men they can possibly be.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

What was your son supposed to be carrying back? Did he have a cooler of his own or something heavier than the other kid? I hope this is not a situation of new boys being made to be the mules while the older boys are the overseers.

 

I sure hope this comment doesn't lead into a new argument about boy's behavior.

 

I really don't know how to answer this for fear of providing more fuel for people to villify my son. Unless I answer with DS was carrying a 60 pound cooler and then took this boy's cooler as well, it's going to look bad.

 

The honest answer is -

 

all four boys were carrying supplies. The commissary, knowing that the troops walk a great distance, supposedly packs each crate and cooler so that they will be as equal as possible. It is not like DS was carrying a crate full of pasta and this other boy was carrying 10 gallons of koolaid.

 

I honestly don't know more than that.

[DawnM]

Yes.

 

Said boy was taunting and calling names for quite a while. He was talked to several times and promised to stop. He did not. Then a new boy came and he started taunting him but the new boy didn't report it as he wasn't sure what to do.

 

It finally turned into something physical with this boy, and at that point, he was told he had to go before Counsel as he would have to take disciplinary measures before he could come back. He was put on temporary leave/probation.

 

He and his family refused to do anything and said it was everyone else's fault.

 

They have since not come back and refuse to go before counsel. Their choice.

 

Dawn

 

Can you share what the incidence was and what discipline was given?

[ma23peas]

Name calling has not been seen as bad in this troop for at least the last 5 years (since he is 14). How could it be seen as against the scout oath? (rhetorical question--I don't want a discussion of this)

 

This is your problem and theirs right here...sure, if afterschool activities, name calling is tolerated..sorry, the boy scouts do NOT tolerate it and hence why you're having the problem..

 

How in the world can anyone say name calling is not against the scout oath...if you want your son in an activity that condones or allows name calling, then find another organization...just b/c your troop has tolerated it with little/no leadership does not mean it's okay...apparently, you do.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

This is your problem and theirs right here...sure, if afterschool activities, name calling is tolerated..sorry, the boy scouts do NOT tolerate it and hence why you're having the problem..

 

How in the world can anyone say name calling is not against the scout oath...if you want your son in an activity that condones or allows name calling, then find another organization...just b/c your troop has tolerated it with little/no leadership does not mean it's okay...apparently, you do.

You do realize that I did not say this but I can only assume the You in your reply means me.

[stansclan89]

This is your problem and theirs right here...sure, if afterschool activities, name calling is tolerated..sorry, the boy scouts do NOT tolerate it and hence why you're having the problem..

 

How in the world can anyone say name calling is not against the scout oath...if you want your son in an activity that condones or allows name calling, then find another organization...just b/c your troop has tolerated it with little/no leadership does not mean it's okay...apparently, you do.

 

I didn't say I did. I'm saying that troop didn't see it as such. These boy scouts and their leaders didn't see it as against the scout oath by the example of their previous actions. Why should this boy be punished by the troop for something that not only he, but the other boys and leaders also did?

 

Certainly his parents should implement some discipline and use this as a teaching opportunity, and she said she did so. But the troop should not have any discipline for this incident of name calling when they taught him what to say. They should have some changes in the troop to correct this problem, but not discipline one boy for what the leaders also do.

[Mom0012]

Really!??! And see this is what I am not getting about this. You are repeatedly sugar-coating what your son has done.

You mentioned that "well, other boys did it too!"....apparently even bringing this up the SM, or whoever is in charge.

You mention how your son feels bad.

You mention that you do not think your son is a bully.

You mention how the other boy changed his story.

 

Did you mention how the other child must feel? Not only did his camping experience get ruined, now it is a long drawn out drama once he gets home. He has to look at these other boys every time they get together. Some of those boys will probably continue to be jerkish bullies. Did you mention how the parents of that child must feel?

 

 

For pete's sake, admit that your son did.not.act.like the Eagle scout he so wants to be. Eagle Scout means he has been in Scouts for several years right? He should KNOW that how he acted is not right. For that matter, scout or no scout, he should know what he did was not right.

 

Stop acting like your son is the victim. It was another child that was called names, treated like dirt, and possibly punched. It was the other child that had to go home and cry to his parents about how horrible his camp experience was. Hey, did you ever think that this other child might be considering quitting Scouts to avoid being treated badly and calling names and thus giving up his dream of becoming an Eagle Scout?!!?

 

Is your son the worst person in the world? No. He is a child who made a mistake. It happens to them all. That is how they learn to make a better choice next time. But for goodness sake, let him learn from it. Okay, so maybe he was not as fully involved or guilty as the victim is saying. But by your son's own admission, he did call names, was mean, and did follow along in group bully mentality. LET HIM LEARN A LESSON from this disheartening experience, and learn that you should NOT be a bully, even in a group. It is NEVER right. There is NEVER "well, I was just a little mean".

 

Mean is mean, own up to it. How in the WORLD could your son tell you that he did say mean things, he did join in a form of group bullying, and you KNOW a child was hurt in this situation (even just feelings being hurt) and YET you still say "I don't consider what DS did/said to be wrong". H.O.L.Y. Smokes!!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't think the Scout leaders (who I agree don't seem to be doing their duty very well either) are the only adults handling this situation wrong.

 

I don't know. It sounds like her son was acting within the culture of the scout troop. If that is the norm, then I can see where he might not think he did anything wrong. Honestly, calling someone a "girl scout" is a pretty minor offense in my book. And if the other kid was whining and complaining the whole time, maybe someone needed to say something to him. If I read correctly, the OP's son wound up carrying the whining boy's share of things, so it doesn't sound like he was exactly horrible to him.

 

Also, the "victim" accused another boy of the bullying first. Now, he is changing his story. From everything I have read about the OP's son and scouting, it sounds more like he may be the victim here.

 

Lisa

[Mom0012]

 

What DS said - according to both DS and the other boy - was "Quit being such a baby. What are you, a girl scout?" then he picked up the cooler and carried it the rest of the way. DS could have been like the other boys (one of whom is also a Life Scout) and have left the kid standing on the path but he didn't.

 

 

 

OP, if this is what happened, then I really think the SM is seriously overreacting. Certainly, this doesn't warrant more than a "cut it out" at the time of the incident, IMO. I do not consider this bullying, especially because he helped the other scout out by carrying his stuff.

 

Lisa

[calandalsmom]

Ya know, the scout oath and law are not some magical incantations that produce perfect behavior in young people. Im just dying here at the idea that this behavior- some name calling (followed by an accusation which is apparently a gross exageration of the extent of bullying) is reasonably best addressed by expulsion from scouting.

 

And I love the grasping at straws wrt things people couldnt possibly know- ie what the kids were carrying.

 

The fact is it isnt and shouldnt be easy to expel a kid from scouting. While the blah blah blah about scouting being and honor is all well and good, most 11-16 yr old boys are immature and naughty (this may yet continue far past 16) and the expectation of no misbehavior is frankly laughable.

 

The idea isnt that the kids be perfect as young scouts but that they mature and learn and grow as scouts.

 

I do also think there is an attitude of a lot of ribbing and teasing among any group of guys which to women will look mean or bizarre. That's a real difference between women and men I think. i never tease my sil about supporting some really crappy sports team, for example.

 

Also calling wimpy people girl scouts seems to be a scout wide phenomenon as we have also heard it. I object and remind my boys that their sister could likely kick their butts. I do think to allow that sort of name calling is to subtly encourage misogyny.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

This is your problem and theirs right here...sure, if afterschool activities, name calling is tolerated..sorry, the boy scouts do NOT tolerate it and hence why you're having the problem..

 

How in the world can anyone say name calling is not against the scout oath...if you want your son in an activity that condones or allows name calling, then find another organization...just b/c your troop has tolerated it with little/no leadership does not mean it's okay...apparently, you do.

 

I'm not sure that I followed your last paragraph. I think the issue that the OP is taking with the situation as it now stands is that while BSA has standards that say that verbal harrassment is not permitted, the troop in question has modeled a way of talking to scouts and has allowed scouts to use names that do not come up to BSA standards. One scout is being threatened with removal from scouting for following a model that was set by adult leaders and unchecked over the last few years.

 

Yes, I think that there should be clear correction made that this is not living in a way that brings honor to scouting in general or the troop in particular. Yes, I think that the OP's ds should take ownership of his actions and make amends for them.

 

However, I also think that the events at camp should provide an opportunity for the leaders to come forth and appologize for their use of similar language. I think that new standards for troop courtesy should be set. I don't think that one scout should be made the fall guy for wrong behavior standards that were generally in place.

 

As far as the accusation of hitting, I think that it's hard to know who is truthful. I have watched scouts lie right to my face about things they have done (things I know to have been untrue, because I'd been watching them do what they said they hadn't done). Scouting provides a model of good behavior. It doesn't bestow perfection onto the teens (or the adults) involved. This should be a moment when a whole group turns a corner in their behavior, not just one scout. (This can be hard, because human beings have lots of baggage. But it is possible.)

[QuirkyKapers]

Let's see if I understand this:

 

Name calling has been accepted and part of the troop for a few years?

Most, if not all have participated in the name calling?

Most,have not been singled out because of the name calling?

 

You have talked with your son about his part in name calling and he regrets that he did and was willing to own up but wasn't allowed to address it to the group?

 

Sounds like your family has also talked and decided what discipline needs to be implemented, but those details are more private?

 

First, I know that name calling happens in my own home between my own children. Yes, Scouts are supposed to have different behavior. I could say that about my own children who are being homeschooled should have different behavior than the public school kids. Or some could say my kids are being raised in a faith based environment and shouldn't be doing it. However, kids will do this. My kids nitpick, name call etc. I hold them accountable for their behavior. But, it still can happen. Is it right? No. However, if adults are modeling this as ok, like come on don't be a sissy you can do this......why wouldn't the kids pick it up?

 

Seriously, I am all for accountably and owning up to actions, but I am not for let's just take one kid and make an example out of them. It concerns me that because other adults haven't complained about different situations, the leaders can't/won't do anything. We know what is happening as leaders but we can't/won't do anything until a formal complaint is made? This just sits wrong with me.

 

Personally, I know others disagree after having read all the pages of comments:), I would look for a troop that the climate was different.

 

In my experience, going above leaders heads to have issues addressed doesn't work all that well. So, that is why I would just pull out of the troop. My concern here would be if you push too hard, how would that backfire for your son?

 

I hope there is a solution that you can come to that will work for your family. :grouphug:

[*Lulu*]

I do also think there is an attitude of a lot of ribbing and teasing among any group of guys which to women will look mean or bizarre. That's a real difference between women and men I think. i never tease my sil about supporting some really crappy sports team, for example.

 

Also calling wimpy people girl scouts seems to be a scout wide phenomenon as we have also heard it. I object and remind my boys that their sister could likely kick their butts. I do think to allow that sort of name calling is to subtly encourage misogyny.

 

Just throwing this out there-

 

I was a Girl Scout for 12 years and we frequently referred to Boy Scouts as wimpy. I don't think using another branch of scouting as an insult is either unique to boys or necessarily indicative of some social ill or sexism.

[Anne in CA]

I just have to say that although I do not agree with name calling at all, it must be lovely to live in an ivory tower where "baby" and "girl scout" are considered damaging. My son had to tell the scout master that another boy called a visiting 2nd year WEBELO chickensh#$. Fortunately that is reflected in the fact that we did not get one WEBOLO crossover this year and so it is being adressed.

 

Dragon Academy, thank you for sharing your expereinces and giving everyone a chance to look at what they consider bullying. You have been gracious. I do think your son is being made into a scapegoat. I have seen it happen to my son too. Unfortunately it is easier to target a good kid who made a small mistake for a scapegoat than a bad one. I have seen it over and over again.

[astrid]

I've never been more thankful for our Christian homeschooling BSA troop as I am in this moment.

 

Yes, because this sort of thing would NEVER happen in a CHRISTIAN BSA troop, right? :001_huh:

 

My bet, having never been either a Boy Scout or a parent of a Boy Scout, is that it could definitely happen in any troop, at any time.

 

Sad situation all around.

 

astrid

[Alveraz]

Sorry for the quick de-rail, but I have a question regarding BSA. I was considering this for my boys until the research led me to a wide variety of websites that show quite a few discrimination cases against them and this apparent "3 G's exclusionary rule: no gays, girls or the godless". Is this still true? Are they really discriminatory against gays and the secular? Seems insane to me if so.

 

Website of reference: http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/index.html

 

I'd consider them if this wasn't the case. What's the deal here?

[kitten18]

Obviously the boy in the OP is a decent kid who made a bad choice. That's how most kids are.

 

Those who think name calling is soem sort of unusual activity among kids just bc its distasteful are delusional, really.

 

There is no reason he should be made to leave scouts for this, that's for sure.

:iagree:

 

I didn't say I did. I'm saying that troop didn't see it as such. These boy scouts and their leaders didn't see it as against the scout oath by the example of their previous actions. Why should this boy be punished by the troop for something that not only he, but the other boys and leaders also did?

 

Certainly his parents should implement some discipline and use this as a teaching opportunity, and she said she did so. But the troop should not have any discipline for this incident of name calling when they taught him what to say. They should have some changes in the troop to correct this problem, but not discipline one boy for what the leaders also do.

Again, I agree.

 

 

 

I do also think there is an attitude of a lot of ribbing and teasing among any group of guys which to women will look mean or bizarre. That's a real difference between women and men I think. i never tease my sil about supporting some really crappy sports team, for example.

 

 

This kind of teasing/ribbing is part of the culture of being a boy. I think that learning how to deal with it is vital to becoming a boy/man who can fit into a group. This will show up again and again in other activities, team sports, etc.

[unsinkable]

I just have to say that although I do not agree with name calling at all, it must be lovely to live in an ivory tower where "baby" and "girl scout" are considered damaging. My son had to tell the scout master that another boy called a visiting 2nd year WEBELO chickensh#$. Fortunately that is reflected in the fact that we did not get one WEBOLO crossover this year and so it is being adressed.

 

Dragon Academy, thank you for sharing your expereinces and giving everyone a chance to look at what they consider bullying. You have been gracious. I do think your son is being made into a scapegoat. I have seen it happen to my son too. Unfortunately it is easier to target a good kid who made a small mistake for a scapegoat than a bad one. I have seen it over and over again.

 

Can you explain the logic behind this?

 

A "good kid" would have all his past behavior and actions in his favor. It would be HARDER to make a good kid into a scapegoat.

 

And to that point: Why? Why is a scapegoat needed? Why would the leadership take one of the troop's best scouts out of scouting?

 

ETA: forgot an apostrophe

Edited August 3, 2011 by unsinkable

[Pink Fairy]

I just have to say that although I do not agree with name calling at all, it must be lovely to live in an ivory tower where "baby" and "girl scout" are considered damaging. My son had to tell the scout master that another boy called a visiting 2nd year WEBELO chickensh#$. Fortunately that is reflected in the fact that we did not get one WEBOLO crossover this year and so it is being adressed.

 

Dragon Academy, thank you for sharing your expereinces and giving everyone a chance to look at what they consider bullying. You have been gracious. I do think your son is being made into a scapegoat. I have seen it happen to my son too. Unfortunately it is easier to target a good kid who made a small mistake for a scapegoat than a bad one. I have seen it over and over again.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

Sorry for the quick de-rail, but I have a question regarding BSA. I was considering this for my boys until the research led me to a wide variety of websites that show quite a few discrimination cases against them and this apparent "3 G's exclusionary rule: no gays, girls or the godless". Is this still true? Are they really discriminatory against gays and the secular? Seems insane to me if so.

 

Website of reference: http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/index.html

 

I'd consider them if this wasn't the case. What's the deal here?

 

This isn't a quick de-rail. Start a new thread. And then get ready for it to be deleted when it gets ugly.

[Alveraz]

This isn't a quick de-rail. Start a new thread. And then get ready for it to be deleted when it gets ugly.

 

Ouch, sorry about that. :( Didn't realize it was such a heated thing. I was a boyscout as a kid and don't remember anything like this when i was there. Thought I'd give my kids a shot at it, but this research got me nervous (I'm secular and some family and friends happen to be gay).

 

Hmm.

[Plucky]

Ouch, sorry about that. :( Didn't realize it was such a heated thing. I was a boyscout as a kid and don't remember anything like this when i was there. Thought I'd give my kids a shot at it, but this research got me nervous (I'm secular and some family and friends happen to be gay).

 

Hmm.

 

It's the same as when you were a kid. Those three things were the same then as they are now. However, now BSA has Muslim troops, girls are a big part of the venture crew and are often seen at boy scout camp teaching scouts. BSA still requires a belief in a God, and no homosexuals are not allowed. There are other groups and clubs out there that do not have this requirement and you can also form your own group or club based on just about whatever you want. :001_smile:

[Alveraz]

too bad. oh well, we'll search elsewhere. thanks for the info. :)

[ChristineW]

The culture of OP's son's troop sounds extremely toxic. Have their been prior complaints against other boys? Have any parents complained about leadership higher up the chain of command?

 

I don't think Op's son should be scapegoated, but on the other hand he did demean and humiliate a subordinate scout. Wrong is wrong even if everyone else does it. The younger scout's family wasn't wrong to complain, and they have a right to expect resolution. Many other scouts and parents should have complained long, long ago.

 

Kicking Op's son out of scouts seems overkill; a formal reprimand seems more appropriate.

 

I'd finish scouting with a healthier troop.

[QueenCat]

:grouphug:s, I'm sorry people seem to be questioning your parenting. You've acknowledged his wrong doing, and the overkill on discipline from the troop. To me, it seems like your son is trying to do what is right by acknowledging the a bit of name calling. I would not call one instance of one name bullying, but rather mild teasing... and trust me, one of my children has been victimized by some pretty major bullying so I'm sensitive to these issues. The accusation of something physical is something he denies, and it is unconscionable for the SM and Committee to not allow him to defend himself. If it were my son, I would go to the District because there is so much wrong here on so many levels.

[stansclan89]

This kind of teasing/ribbing is part of the culture of being a boy. I think that learning how to deal with it is vital to becoming a boy/man who can fit into a group. This will show up again and again in other activities, team sports, etc.

 

:iagree:

 

I just have to say that although I do not agree with name calling at all, it must be lovely to live in an ivory tower where "baby" and "girl scout" are considered damaging.

 

 

:iagree: again

 

Can you explain the logic behind this?

 

A "good kid" would have all his past behavior and actions in his favor. It would be HARDER to make a good kid into a scapegoat.

 

And to that point: Why? Why is a scapegoat needed? Why would the leadership take one of the troop's best scouts out of scouting?

 

ETA: forgot an apostrophe

 

A good kid will admit to what he has done wrong and try to amend for it. A bully will not admit to what he has done. A lot of the time the parents are in denial and will not see him for what he is and try to correct the problem. They will vehemently defend him even though he is in the wrong.

 

Kicking Op's son out of scouts seems overkill; a formal reprimand seems more appropriate.

 

A formal reprimand could follow him to his Eagle board. Having to rehash this for the rest of his scouting days would be too much. Being that he is repentant, they should have a few meetings on being kind and deal with this situation privately.

 

ds17 pointed out that a bully also would not have carried both loads the rest of the way with no adult making him do it. He decided on his own that his previous acts (teasing, goading) were not getting the desired results (younger scout picking up the pace and stopping whining) and picked up the ice chest and moved on. He found a better solution.

[Anne in CA]

Unsinkable, I do not know how to highlight your text to address it, but I did want to answer you because I think what you said SOUNDS logical, but is not my experience. Real bullies are almost never called on their "stuff" in my experience. It is easier to complain about someone who will be held accountable for their actions by leadership and by their own parents.

 

Kids know that if they complain about a real bully the bully will lie better than they can tell the truth. Kid bullies often make great eye contact and speak clearly, a kid who has been treated poorly has a hard time doing that. The victim knows that a real bully will get them back for telling.

 

The parents of bullies fight tooth and nail for their kids perfect reputations.

 

The OP's story works perfectly with the points I am making. The kid who wouldn't carry his cooler changed his story to complain about a kid who he knew would stand by him. The "victim" knows that the OP's son is not going to "get him back" for telling about the name calling or even lying about the hitting. I think the "victim" changed his story when he thought about the consequences of telling on the real bully. He changed his story so that he would not get hurt again later, and he is safe because OP's son carried his cooler and didn't leave him alone. He knows that OP's son had decent character and is safe to complain about. That is how scapegoating works.

 

The scoutmaster also knows OP to be reasonable, and he is counting on being able to discipline her son and he knows that if he goes after the parents of the real bully he will be hitting a tar baby and they will not let him have any peace.

 

I was often disciplined for things other kids did so that a teacher could say they dealt with a situation. Teachers were safe doing this because my parents were busy and trusting of authority. I KNOW this story, it's ONE of the reasons I homeschool.

[LG Gone Wild]

Unsinkable, I do not know how to highlight your text to address it, but I did want to answer you because I think what you said SOUNDS logical, but is not my experience. Real bullies are almost never called on their "stuff" in my experience. It is easier to complain about someone who will be held accountable for their actions by leadership and by their own parents.

 

Kids know that if they complain about a real bully the bully will lie better than they can tell the truth. Kid bullies often make great eye contact and speak clearly, a kid who has been treated poorly has a hard time doing that. The victim knows that a real bully will get them back for telling.

 

The parents of bullies fight tooth and nail for their kids perfect reputations.

 

The OP's story works perfectly with the points I am making. The kid who wouldn't carry his cooler changed his story to complain about a kid who he knew would stand by him. The "victim" knows that the OP's son is not going to "get him back" for telling about the name calling or even lying about the hitting. I think the "victim" changed his story when he thought about the consequences of telling on the real bully. He changed his story so that he would not get hurt again later, and he is safe because OP's son carried his cooler and didn't leave him alone. He knows that OP's son had decent character and is safe to complain about. That is how scapegoating works.

 

The scoutmaster also knows OP to be reasonable, and he is counting on being able to discipline her son and he knows that if he goes after the parents of the real bully he will be hitting a tar baby and they will not let him have any peace.

 

I was often disciplined for things other kids did so that a teacher could say they dealt with a situation. Teachers were safe doing this because my parents were busy and trusting of authority. I KNOW this story, it's ONE of the reasons I homeschool.

 

Amen

[kitten18]

Unsinkable, I do not know how to highlight your text to address it, but I did want to answer you because I think what you said SOUNDS logical, but is not my experience. Real bullies are almost never called on their "stuff" in my experience. It is easier to complain about someone who will be held accountable for their actions by leadership and by their own parents.

 

Kids know that if they complain about a real bully the bully will lie better than they can tell the truth. Kid bullies often make great eye contact and speak clearly, a kid who has been treated poorly has a hard time doing that. The victim knows that a real bully will get them back for telling.

 

The parents of bullies fight tooth and nail for their kids perfect reputations.

 

The OP's story works perfectly with the points I am making. The kid who wouldn't carry his cooler changed his story to complain about a kid who he knew would stand by him. The "victim" knows that the OP's son is not going to "get him back" for telling about the name calling or even lying about the hitting. I think the "victim" changed his story when he thought about the consequences of telling on the real bully. He changed his story so that he would not get hurt again later, and he is safe because OP's son carried his cooler and didn't leave him alone. He knows that OP's son had decent character and is safe to complain about. That is how scapegoating works.

 

The scoutmaster also knows OP to be reasonable, and he is counting on being able to discipline her son and he knows that if he goes after the parents of the real bully he will be hitting a tar baby and they will not let him have any peace.

 

 

Great post.

[pageta]

In my opinion, it is just as bad to falsely accuse someone of bullying as it is to bully someone.

 

Bullying is wrong. So is destroying someone's good reputation by saying things about them that are untrue.

 

I've had my reputation stained by someone who twisted things around and mouthed off behind my back just because it made them feel good about themselves to put someone else down.

 

In fact, I would venture that saying untrue things about someone just to get them in trouble is a form of bullying. Having to be nice to someone because you are afraid of what lie they will make up about you that you will have to defend yourself and your reputation against is NOT. FUN.

 

It is wrong to bully someone. It is equally wrong (and just as damaging to someone's psyche) to falsely accuse someone of bullying.

[unsinkable]

Unsinkable, I do not know how to highlight your text to address it, but I did want to answer you because I think what you said SOUNDS logical, but is not my experience. Real bullies are almost never called on their "stuff" in my experience. It is easier to complain about someone who will be held accountable for their actions by leadership and by their own parents.

 

Kids know that if they complain about a real bully the bully will lie better than they can tell the truth. Kid bullies often make great eye contact and speak clearly, a kid who has been treated poorly has a hard time doing that. The victim knows that a real bully will get them back for telling.

 

The parents of bullies fight tooth and nail for their kids perfect reputations.

 

The OP's story works perfectly with the points I am making. The kid who wouldn't carry his cooler changed his story to complain about a kid who he knew would stand by him. The "victim" knows that the OP's son is not going to "get him back" for telling about the name calling or even lying about the hitting. I think the "victim" changed his story when he thought about the consequences of telling on the real bully. He changed his story so that he would not get hurt again later, and he is safe because OP's son carried his cooler and didn't leave him alone. He knows that OP's son had decent character and is safe to complain about. That is how scapegoating works.

 

The scoutmaster also knows OP to be reasonable, and he is counting on being able to discipline her son and he knows that if he goes after the parents of the real bully he will be hitting a tar baby and they will not let him have any peace.

 

I was often disciplined for things other kids did so that a teacher could say they dealt with a situation. Teachers were safe doing this because my parents were busy and trusting of authority. I KNOW this story, it's ONE of the reasons I homeschool.

 

Well, thanks for sharing your experience.

 

It hasn't been mine.

 

Bullies don't have perfect reputations around here.

[melissel]

Can I ask a question? I haven't seen it answered anywhere here, but maybe I missed it.

 

Dragon Academy, it sounds like the incident in question occurred while your DS and the other boy were walking back from the commissary. Your DS made some disparaging comments about the boy and carried his load for him. Then, when they came back, the boy made allegations against another Scout...for what incident? The food carrying experience? Was the other boy one of the other two Scouts walking with your DS, or someone totally separate? If it was a totally separate incident, how is this boy getting away with now naming your DS as the perpetrator? Has he totally changed his whole story, or is he just changing the name of the perpetrator?

 

Either way, I think the whole thing just stinks :grouphug: I do think your DS did something wrong, but it sounds like the culture of this troop is indeed toxic. Yes, teasing among boys and men is part of the culture, but does that mean we need to condone it--even allow it to be encouraged? I wouldn't stand for that.

 

Also, I'm horrified at the number of women on here who don't see how sexist and misogynistic it is to allow identification of an entire gender to be used as an insult synonymous with whiny and weak. Does that mean you're comfortable referring to men as, say, boneheaded and emotionally absent?

[Mom0012]

Can you explain the logic behind this?

 

A "good kid" would have all his past behavior and actions in his favor. It would be HARDER to make a good kid into a scapegoat.

 

And to that point: Why? Why is a scapegoat needed? Why would the leadership take one of the troop's best scouts out of scouting?

 

ETA: forgot an apostrophe

 

I think it's because a parent complained. If we believe what the OP has shared with us, and I am inclined to, the SM does think her son is a good scout. He just feels he has to follow through with discipline because a parent complained.

 

Lisa

[A.J. at J.A.]

Yes, because this sort of thing would NEVER happen in a CHRISTIAN BSA troop, right? :001_huh:

 

 

astrid

 

I think the point being made is that (at least in our troop), the name calling would have never been modeled from the leadership, and certainly wouldn't have been tolerated had it occurred with the scouts. The boys in our troop are NOT perfect (neither are the parents/leaders) - however, there is definitely a standard that seems to be greater than the one of the described troop.