JennifersLost Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'm so mad right now. (You might remember I have one homeschooler currently and three in public school.) One of my sons came home from school the other day with a permission slip for me to sign so he could take part in a 45 minute survey all the kids in his class were supposed to do. I was a little ticked off that class time would be used for filling in surveys, first of all, but I read over the permission slip. It said that the kids would be asked questions about sex, drugs, alcohol, cigarrettes, seatbelt use, contraception, etc. These kids are in seventh grade. I felt that sounded like some fairly personal and potentially embarrassing questions for ds. Then came the really great part. It said the kids didn't have to put their names on the survey, BUT IF THEY DID and anything they wrote on it raised red flags for the people running the survey, they would turn the papers over to "the authorities" and we (the parents) could be investigated. Now we're a pretty white-bread, boring household as far as things go, but I'm not putting my future in the hands of my seventh-grader, you know? I decided NOT to give my permission. Ds gets very upset. "Everyone else is going to do it. They'll make us do work if we don't." At this poin I gave ds a big, fat lecture on not being afraid of a little extra work. "What are they going to do, force you to read a book for 45 minutes?" I said. "No," he said. "They said if we don't fill in the survey, we have to walk around the school picking up trash the whole time." WHAT?????? Does that not sound like the school is punishing the kids who don't participate? Needless to say, ds isn't filling out the survey, I'm waiting for a call back from the principal so I can state my displeasure, and if that's all they can provide for an educational activity while the other kids play into the hands of the fascist state, I'll be going to pick the kid up and take him home. (I know that's highly rhetorical and dramatic, but didn't the Nazis used to use kids to get info on their parents????) Can you believe that? I wasn't too ticked off about the survey. I wouldn't be ticked off about the kids helping pick up trash. I am very ticked off that the school would try to coerce kids to take part by threatening to punish them in this way if they didn't. That is not right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosaicmind Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 :iagree: You go girl!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa at Home Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'd be mad, too. If he didn't have any tests that day, depening on his age, I might have to think about keeping him home the whole day. That's nuts, and yes, it does sound as if they are punishing with trash duty. ~Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clwcain Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 why we're home schooling. :cursing: Keep him home "sick" that day. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Oh :iagree:, make it a "well" day. "Well I didn't feel like sending my son to school to partake in your little facist activity today." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starlashine Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 ::jaw on floor::. I think your reaction is the reaction of a good parent to public school bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mo2 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I agree. No school that day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missplacedalaskan Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 This would make me angry also! I think I would be allow my Dc to stay home from school that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. at J.A. Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Oh :iagree:, make it a "well" day. "Well I didn't feel like sending my son to school to partake in your little facist activity today." Awesome!! I like the idea of a "well" day as you put it! :party: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 :iagree: Hope the weather is nice and you can declare an official "Beach Day" :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenKitty Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Ugh...unfortunately things like that happen in schools. Keep ds home that day. (of course after you state your opinion to the principal:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa at Home Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 ~Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 This is ridiculous! At the least it should be a study hall for the kids not taking the survey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamturner Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 That's just truly outrageous!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I would not want my son to think picking up trash is beneath him. In fact, I think junior highs should be able to operate without the benefit of a janitorial staff, because it seems to me that able bodied kids that age OUGHT to be mopping, polishing and picking trash up from their own school. But that's totally an aside because in this case, the trash picking up is being used to retaliate against kids who don't participate. And I would take that to the principal. And then I would start emailing other parents - any parent from that school whose email you have. I would have my son forward the email to all his friends and ask them to pass it on to their parents. And I would very politely, calmly, factually encourage all parent to refuse to participate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pensguys Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 In fact, I think junior highs should be able to operate without the benefit of a janitorial staff, because it seems to me that able bodied kids that age OUGHT to be mopping, polishing and picking trash up from their own school. I agree that they shouldn't think picking up trash is beneath them, but they are SUPPOSED to be at school for LEARNING.....not for being their own janitor service. I don't understand why you think they should spend supposed learning time being a janitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Go get 'em, girl! My oldest was in ps waaaaay too long. I can totally believe what you are experiencing. I concur, keep the boy home and have a great *educational* day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 You know, at least they told you details about what was coming. I have heard of cases where they asked these kinds of questions and the parents didn't know about it until afterwards. Unless the children knew to refuse, there was no recourse at all. This really, really stinks. I am just such a homeschooler. And so are you. Even if we send our children to school from time to time for periods of time, we are homeschoolers at heart. We never really turn our children over to anyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I'd double check with the principal about the trash thing. Perhaps like this: "Hello, Principal Blahblah, this is Jennifer Blah. I wanted to double check something outrageous my son told me today about school--you know how kids can exaggerate and all. I heard.... And I know that just simply can't be true, right?" All innocent-like, as if it's the most ridiculous thing you've ever heard. Then again, maybe not. Maybe that's throwing ds under the bus in a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*anj* Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Here's another vote for keeping him home that day. Take him to a soup kitchen to serve food to homeless people. Take him to a nursing home to play Scrabble with elderly people. Heck, take him to a park to pick up trash! And if they ask you why he's not there you can say that you decided it was a good day for a meaningful service project. That is incredibly bogus on so many levels. :banghead: You go for it, Mom! Let them know what you think!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K&Rs Mom Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Wow, that's terrible. Why not keep him home and promise the principal that ds will be picking up his own trash? ;) When I was a substitute teacher, I had to sit for a day of these surveys. One 6th grader brought over her paper and told me she thought she got the wrong survey. "This one must be for adults" she said, because of the very detailed questions about s*x. :glare: I couldn't tell her she didn't have to finish it, because I didn't have that authority; I just told her to answer as best she could. grr The kids whose parents had refused permission (only about 2 kids out of the 6 classfuls I saw) just went to the library for that class period. I'm guessing most parents had no idea what was actually ON that survey, just trusted the school administration to take care of their kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglin'5 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Oh :iagree:, make it a "well" day. "Well I didn't feel like sending my son to school to partake in your little facist activity today." Love it! ITA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemyboys Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I agree that they shouldn't think picking up trash is beneath them, but they are SUPPOSED to be at school for LEARNING.....not for being their own janitor service. I don't understand why you think they should spend supposed learning time being a janitor. Really. Everyone in the class will know who isn't participating, and they'll be out walking around picking up trash, where other kids from other classes will see them. And all the kids will know the questions being asked, so they'll be teased about being prudes, etc., over that too. The last thing most 7th graders want is to be noticed in this way, maybe they're hoping that will be a motivator for kids to argue with parents over it, if parents are reluctant. Seems a bit much for 7th graders. Also, in a group environment, how helpful or factual is it anyway? Some kids will switch into exaggeration. Others will withhold with the potential for putting names down and/or parents finding out. So really, how useful is it anyway? Yuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabola Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Oh :iagree:, make it a "well" day. "Well I didn't feel like sending my son to school to partake in your little facist activity today." Ha! That is great! We're a pretty boring household too, but there's NO WAY my kid would do that survey. Just a matter of principle. I'm with everyone else: tell the principal exactly what you think, and then keep him home! (and if you can enlighten any other parents along the way, do so) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I remember taking one of those surveys in high school back when I was a teen in the 80's. I don't think my parents were notified but they probably wouldn't have cared either. I think half of us fibbed anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I agree that they shouldn't think picking up trash is beneath them, but they are SUPPOSED to be at school for LEARNING.....not for being their own janitor service. I don't understand why you think they should spend supposed learning time being a janitor. I guess I am just idealistic. I doubt it would work in America. But I always liked the Japanese model of having children both master academic work AND take responsibility for keeping their schools clean. Maybe that's not something that would work here, but I would love to be part of a model school that tried - if I had to send my kids to school that is:) But that's neither here nor there because the OP's school isn't a Japanese model school of responbility. They want all the kids to participate, and this is their leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeside Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 What is the purpose for a survey like this? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura K (NC) Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 They're double-dipping if they expect the kids to do work instead of taking the survey. Over my dead body, btw. No way would my kid be taking the survey or cleaning the schoolyard that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy in Orlando Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Oh :iagree:, make it a "well" day. "Well I didn't feel like sending my son to school to partake in your little facist activity today." Perfect! And :iagree: I think it's scary how many people will just sign anything without reading it. The whole thing is creepy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiCO Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 "This one must be for adults" she said, because of the very detailed questions about s*x. :glare: I couldn't tell her she didn't have to finish it, because I didn't have that authority; I just told her to answer as best she could. grr And these surveys are usually multiple-choice- a lot of kids just make up answers, So their data is totally meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 No way would I have my child take a survey like that, and I wouldn't have him "punished" for it either. Sure, we want our kids to have great work ethic, but this has nothing to do with being willing to pickup trash or all of the other tangents mentioned in this thread. It's about the school trying to make it entirely unpleasant for anyone not complying with their facist little regime. Hello! This survey has absolutely nothing to do with education. Who's supposed to be educated here? The kids, or the school system/authorities? No thank you, my kids will stay right here with me where I know they're not being brainwashed or used as some sort of psychological study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 No, I would not have my children taking that survey. If the average school needs to be cutting field trips, art, music and other "extras" in order to focus on meeting academic standards, there is no way that they can afford losing an entire class period to this (not to mention all the tomfoolery they will get in subsequent classes when the kids discuss it). I would return the permission slip, clearly annotated with "Joey may NOT participate in this survey" so that they couldn't accidentally add a permission signature where not existed. I would call/email everyone I could about this survey and the instructional time that it will be taking up. I would call the principal and offer to volunteer that day so that they had adequate supervison in the library for the students who weren't taking the survey. I would even consider having a working party of friends and other parents come to the school armed with rakes and trash bags. Evidently there is quite a trash problem at the school if students need to be taking time away from their studies to help clean it up. We're happy to help them out. Just point us the way. Can you see why I joke that the school officials would be the first to ask me to homeschool? There is just no way that this is a necessary component of the school day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 While I am totally supportive of (and have participated with the kids in) community service work... Ummm-aren't county prisoners often tasked with trash removal from pubic areas? Are my kids being punished for not participating in a voluntary activity? Furthermore, if trash removal is part of the janitorial staff's job description are they 1) going to pay children wages or 2) in violation of child labor laws? My kid wouldn't be paticipating in the survey (the permission slip would look much like Sebastian's above) nor would they be picking up trash. Neither is appropriate. Maybe a little communication with the pricipal and school board too? Something on paper, copied to state board of education? Now when they are prepared to survey and publish results on such topics as US and World geography knowledge, literary characters, famous artists and their major works, major dates/events in history... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Virginia Dawn Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 It sounds like another case of: "An attempt should be made to redress the present overemphasis on individualism in current programs....students need to develop a sense of community and collective identity." (Educational Leadership, May 1982) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizam Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I'm so mad right now. (You might remember I have one homeschooler currently and three in public school.) One of my sons came home from school the other day with a permission slip for me to sign so he could take part in a 45 minute survey all the kids in his class were supposed to do. I was a little ticked off that class time would be used for filling in surveys, first of all, but I read over the permission slip. It said that the kids would be asked questions about sex, drugs, alcohol, cigarrettes, seatbelt use, contraception, etc. These kids are in seventh grade. I felt that sounded like some fairly personal and potentially embarrassing questions for ds. Then came the really great part. It said the kids didn't have to put their names on the survey, BUT IF THEY DID and anything they wrote on it raised red flags for the people running the survey, they would turn the papers over to "the authorities" and we (the parents) could be investigated. Now we're a pretty white-bread, boring household as far as things go, but I'm not putting my future in the hands of my seventh-grader, you know? I decided NOT to give my permission. Ds gets very upset. "Everyone else is going to do it. They'll make us do work if we don't." At this poin I gave ds a big, fat lecture on not being afraid of a little extra work. "What are they going to do, force you to read a book for 45 minutes?" I said. "No," he said. "They said if we don't fill in the survey, we have to walk around the school picking up trash the whole time." WHAT?????? Does that not sound like the school is punishing the kids who don't participate? Needless to say, ds isn't filling out the survey, I'm waiting for a call back from the principal so I can state my displeasure, and if that's all they can provide for an educational activity while the other kids play into the hands of the fascist state, I'll be going to pick the kid up and take him home. (I know that's highly rhetorical and dramatic, but didn't the Nazis used to use kids to get info on their parents????) Can you believe that? I wasn't too ticked off about the survey. I wouldn't be ticked off about the kids helping pick up trash. I am very ticked off that the school would try to coerce kids to take part by threatening to punish them in this way if they didn't. That is not right. I never knew it till now, but my ds recently read a book about the Hitler Youth and how Hitler brainwashed schoolchildren that they should turn their parents in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Edited to say: I thought I hit "new thread" and was starting my own thread, lol. I was really surprised this turned up in the midst of an unrelated thread. Sorry. Since I can't edit the subject line, I guess it has to stay here..... -------------------------------------- Just because I want to know what it says when you do so. It cracks me up when I give good rep and get a little notice saying the board hopes I will be "lucky enough" to get good rep myself. So I am curious about what it says if you give bad rep. Does it say "I hope you are never so unlucky as to get bad rep too?" Or "What goes around comes around?" Anyone want to volunteer to be my victim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I never knew it till now, but my ds recently read a book about the Hitler Youth and how Hitler brainwashed schoolchildren that they should turn their parents in. Yes, one of his greatest weapons were the young people. There's a great movie that shows this youth culture: Swing Kids http://www.amazon.com/Swing-Kids-Robert-Sean-Leonard/dp/B000065V3W/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1211547948&sr=1-5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peek a Boo Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Ummm-aren't county prisoners often tasked with trash removal from pubic areas? ummmmm......OOPS. bwahahahaha!!! ----------------------- and Jen, i think a letter to the editor is in order as well, especially after talking w/ the principal. Take notes so you get his statements correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennifersLost Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 Well, it all played out pretty well in the end. The kids that took the survey were taken out of class. The other kids got to read or work on homework while they were gone. The principal never actually called me back. Maybe just the tone of my message warned her something was up, LOL. I will call her next week just to check in. I don't know if my ds mis-heard about picking up trash, or whether that was just a stupid, offhand remark the teacher made, or what. But thanks for letting me vent here and making me feel I wasn't completely overreacting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Edited to say: I thought I hit "new thread" and was starting my own thread, lol. I was really surprised this turned up in the midst of an unrelated thread. Sorry. Since I can't edit the subject line, I guess it has to stay here..... -------------------------------------- Just because I want to know what it says when you do so. It cracks me up when I give good rep and get a little notice saying the board hopes I will be "lucky enough" to get good rep myself. So I am curious about what it says if you give bad rep. Does it say "I hope you are never so unlucky as to get bad rep too?" Or "What goes around comes around?" Anyone want to volunteer to be my victim? Oh, pick me, pick me! But make it a real stinger or VERY constructive (LOL). I don't want you to waste your chance! And I'll send you good rep with hopes that your next attempt to start a new thread does not go astray! (Sorry, Jen, for the detour. We shall be quiet after this. :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam "SFSOM" in TN Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I guess I am just idealistic. I doubt it would work in America. But I always liked the Japanese model of having children both master academic work AND take responsibility for keeping their schools clean. Maybe that's not something that would work here, but I would love to be part of a model school that tried - if I had to send my kids to school that is:) But that's neither here nor there because the OP's school isn't a Japanese model school of responbility. They want all the kids to participate, and this is their leverage. I do, too. My dd's school has her working as waiter, compost detail, and I guess other stuff they can choose as their "service" to the community. I rather like it. Ds had the same opportunity to provide service to his schools. And I LOVE the Japanese model. Kids would be less likely to trash the place if they had a stake in what happens when it *does* get trashed. ETA: But in Jennifer's situation, this is simply retribution and punishment and shaming. Shame on THEM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K&Rs Mom Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Oh, pick me, pick me! But make it a real stinger or VERY constructive (LOL). I don't want you to waste your chance! And I'll send you good rep with hopes that your next attempt to start a new thread does not go astray! (Sorry, Jen, for the detour. We shall be quiet after this. :)) So, what did it say????? I don't want to ruin alpha-Pam's reputation by all of us trying it out ourselves.... And I'm glad everything turned out okay for Jennifer's ds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 .... it's stories like this that make me so happy that we pulled DD out of PS after 1st grade. I don't miss this carp. Problem is that most parents don't complain and so the school does whatever it wants. People just seem so 'beaten' by their kids they can't wait to dump them off at school and have them be the school's responsiblity. Just my opinion of course and painted with a broad brush stroke, based upon our experience. Pull him out for the day or for 'an appointment' during that 45 minute survey. It may or may not be worth making an issue with the school depending upon your tolerance for apathy. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonesloonybin Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 When I was in public school, we had to take these surveys (with no parent notification). They say it is anonymous but it is not. My friend answered the question "would you ever play Russian roulette?" yes. Only because she thought it was roulette like in the casinos. They contacted the social worker and her parents and she had to go to therapy. It is crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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