As a parent and/or a homeschooler, is it your job to

[Jean in Newcastle]

yes, technically - but that is the complicated part, because, of course, I DO feel ties to the US as well. So, while I am the citizen of another country, I live and work in the US - and sometimes it is really hard straddling this divide. My kids are not American citizens either, but they grow up here. So, that's why I don't find this simple at all.

 

I do understand this. I was born and raised in Japan but was an American citizen from birth. I identified very strongly with Japanese culture and understand that divide you are referring to. However, my American citizenship is what gives me certain rights in this world (just as another country's citizenship would guarantee me certain rights- some similar to the US and many sadly lacking). I do owe fealty to the country of my citizenship for those rights. Yes, I am fortunate that I was born with this citizenship. Many others, including my dh and his entire family worked very hard to achieve this citizenship because of the freedom and opportunity that was available to them here.

[Stacy in NJ]

love, gratitude, appreciation for all that America offers. That doesn't mean we ignore the negatives, though; we discuss those as well.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ok look that might be like saying I owe something to my mother who gave birth to me. You might put up with more because it's your mother. But really, under any circumstance no matter how awful your mother is you embrace her and celebrate her? I don't get it.

 

Yes, I do. That is the root of "honoring your parents". (This does not, however, negate boundaries in relationships.)

[YLVD]

instill a sense of patriotism in your children? Or is it only your job to present facts and history, as well as exposure to places and people, so that your child can eventually (hopefully?) develop patriotic feelings independently?

 

No, not for me. In fact, one of the reasons why I homeschool is for my DD to be able to study cultures all over the world. Her main interests in live revolve around all things Indian and Egyptian. I can relate to her as my favorite thing to do in life is to learn about people and places around the world.

 

Patriotism doesn't enter in for me. I like her to explore the world without borders. JMO

[Aelwydd]

No, I do not make any special effort to instill patriotism in our ds. Mostly because if we end up moving to Canada, we will be seeking citizenship there.

[YLVD]

I guess the term patriotic makes me bristle. I want my kids to be kind and thoughtful human beings who respect other cultures/countries/the environment etc. I think they should be good citizens. But it's up to them if they feel patriotic or not. My husband is not a citizen of the US so this influences the vibe in our home as well.

 

:iagree:

[Peela]

Heck no! Patriotism is un-Australian! :rofl:

 

 

 

:lol:

 

I am not into patriotism myself. I love Australia as an ancient, beautiful land and some aspects of our culture, and I deeply appreciate living here, particularly at this time in history, but we are not any more special than anyone else on the planet. We are lucky, and most of us know it, but we are not special.

I always thought patriotism was a bit strange and a very American thing (kind of part of the U.S. centric worldview). The rest of the world isn't so big on it generally which doesn't mean we don't love our countries...its just not such a big deal as it seems to be in America.

If it creates happiness, connectedness, appreciation of our differences and uniqueness- great. If it creates a sense of being special, better than others, and divisiveness because of that- I don't see it as a good thing.

I really think its time people thought in a bigger way that just their own countries. Everyone on the planet is of value. I think patriotism has lead to too much thinking that its ok to kill other people in other countries because they are somehow not as worthy as us. A distancing and disconnectedness from "others" just because they are not in our country.

[veggiegal]

Must teaching patriotism entail teaching one's children that their country is "the greatest"? Not to me. I would no more teach pride in my country that way than I would teach my children pride in themselves that way. Yes, be proud of your accomplishments--as an individual and as a nation. You have both worked hard and done some very difficult and praise-worthy things. But so have others--individuals and nations. And you have also done some things to be not so proud of--and so have others. I do not understand how one can talk of the "best overall country" any more than one can talk of the "best overall person". And it is unnecessary; you can feel pride without having to be better than everyone else.

 

And in saying you are the best person/country, you do two things: you alienate others, and you potentially put yourself in a position of not learning from others. Why look to how others do things if you are "the greatest"? Being proud of your own self/country, but also seeing that others do better than you in some ways and you can learn from them--just as you do better in some ways and they can learn from you--is a preferable way of being in the world, IMO.

[JennyD]

No. I do, however, take quite seriously the obligation to raise good citizens. I also hope over time to be able to convey a certain appreciation for the general project that is the United States -- the whole radical, flawed, remarkable enterprise. But I don't consider that patriotism, exactly, and certainly not as most people who talk about 'patriotism' mean it.

[pqr]

I need to move to Australia. I can make cracks about how I'm not patriotic and nobody will jump on me. In the US I'm some kind of freak show. Really, I don't get it.

 

We are a nation at war. Thousands of Americans have given their lives and you don't understand why people would "jump on you" for joking about patriotism? Really?

[Kate CA]

You present the question as if you think parents are (or should be) presenting some sort of indoctrination program to their children. Your question also seems to assume that if you present your child with the facts of history patriotism might not develop without said indoctrination.

 

 

 

Exactly-nothing in the definition of patriotism requires that it be blind or ignorant. One can love one's country and still be well informed about their country.

 

 

 

Nothing about being patriotic requires one to be less than kind or thoughtful human beings nor is it mutually exclusive with showing respect for other cultures, countries or the environment.

 

Being patriotic isn't about giving up one's culture, being blind to your nation's faults, or any other such nonsense. It is simply a love and respect for your country. Something best taught to children by example and discussion not by forced indoctrination.

 

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

:iagree:

[Daisy]

No. I do, however, take quite seriously the obligation to raise good citizens. I also hope over time to be able to convey a certain appreciation for the general project that is the United States -- the whole radical, flawed, remarkable enterprise. But I don't consider that patriotism, exactly, and certainly not as most people who talk about 'patriotism' mean it.

 

This and the obligation to raise people of good character who embrace the ideals of freedom, justice, and equality is exactly how I define American patriotism.

 

I'm frankly surprised the term gets such a bum rap on this board. I've never known a single person who felt patriotism was blind obedience or the idea that America can do no wrong. It simply means love and devotion for one's country. Yes, I hope my children grow up to love their country, not just because they were born here but because they are actively protecting and cherishing the ideals that make this country worthy of their love and devotion.

 

I refuse to pitch out a perfectly good word.

[athomemom]

Of course it's your job to help your dc love their country, whether you're homeschooling or not. Who else would do it? And why wouldn't someone do it? :confused:

 

:iagree:

[regentrude]

This and the obligation to raise people of good character who embrace the ideals of freedom, justice, and equality is exactly how I define American patriotism.

.

 

But parents in other countries ALSO raise children to be people of good character who embrace the ideals of freedom, justice and equality.

Having grown up in a totalitarian state, I am VERY appreciative of these three ideas - but America does not have the monopoly.

[LittleIzumi]

Maybe I'm a closet Australian. Maybe it's the Basque via Quebec heritage and I just come from a long line of disgruntled people looking to secede. I just don't get the rah-rah, go us, look at how awesome we are thing.

 

:lol::lol:

 

No. We come from a point of view that is quite close to Henry David Thoreau's take on citizenship. First of all, we believe you can only be proud of something that you, yourself, accomplished. A person has no control over what country they were born in, and it is something so inherent to circumstance that we just don't get the "pride" connection (similarly, we also don't encourage a mentality of being "proud" of one's gender, sexual orientation, or what have you).

 

We feel the ties between injustice and jingoism is not coincidental, and we feel it is our duty to educate our children about the dangers associated with national pride. It is very difficult to quantify the tangible benefits of patriotism, but the perils stand heavy and vast before us.

 

To get a little more succinct, my husband and I feel that patriotism is a tool of the state to mollify its citizenry. Patriotism that springs up from the public may or may not be prudent, but patriotism that traces its origin back to the government is always nefarious. Governments need patriotism to wage needless wars, imprison dissenters, ban speech, you name it.

 

Many have spoken here of a desire to teach their children to follow the law. If anything, we teach the opposite. To return to Thoreau, we do not wish to teach our children to simply follow the laws as written -- if there is an unjust law, not only are you right to disobey it, but you should feel compelled to do so. If we raise our children as patriots, it will be in the same revolutionary spirit of the Founding Fathers. Too often patriotism these days takes the form of supercilious obedience to the state.

 

That is very interesting. Thanks!

 

No, I do not make any special effort to instill patriotism in our ds. Mostly because if we end up moving to Canada, we will be seeking citizenship there.

 

Werd. :lol: (Ontario, anyone?:tongue_smilie:)

 

I am VERY grateful for the freedoms we possess in this country. However, the levels of corruption/money-is-power/special interests in our government makes me heartsick. I don't know how patriotic I can be if I plan on defecting to Canada. :lol: I do greatly appreciate our freedoms though, and I will teach my children about those. They have already begun to learn about government and voting, and they went with me to vote twice so far. I'm not really a rah-rah school spirit sort of girl, and that applies to my government.

[athomemom]

We are a nation at war. Thousands of Americans have given their lives and you don't understand why people would "jump on you" for joking about patriotism? Really?

 

I have traced many an ancestor that have fought in wars for us to be free. My ancestors didn't fight for another country or a "world without borders". I love my country & my country has borders for a reason. I am proud of her and for those her serve her well. She isn't perfect, but she is mine!

[pqr]

Originally Posted by pqr

We are a nation at war. Thousands of Americans have given their lives and you don't understand why people would "jump on you" for joking about patriotism? Really?

 

I think you should pick up a history book. I mean a REAL history book..OF THE PEOPLE. Not of the elite. Not of the glory glory yee haw war stories. Of the fact that many of those who were in arms (and are in arms) because they were forced, coerced, or it's a job. It's NOT the same as doing something because you whole heatedly believe in it.

 

First you did not answer the question, so I ask again:

We are a nation at war. Thousands of Americans have given their lives and you don't understand why people would "jump on you" for joking about patriotism? Really?

 

Just how many Americans who "are in arms" TODAY were forced or coerced? Those who protect our freedom (including yours) do not deserve what you are insinuating. We do not today have the finest military in the world because we force and coerce people into it.

 

There are, I believe, scores of military members or their wives on this board, how about asking them if they or their husbands were coerced. Ask the members whose sons are in Afghanistan NOW if they were coerced?

 

I think a sincere and public apology to those with families in the military is in order. Our military does NOT coerce or force people in.

 

Those in the US military, who I have been privileged to know, are Patriots! To argue otherwise is.............

 

 

 

by the way, just which book is written for the "elite"?

Edited June 21, 2011 by pqr

[Jean in Newcastle]

But parents in other countries ALSO raise children to be people of good character who embrace the ideals of freedom, justice and equality.

Having grown up in a totalitarian state, I am VERY appreciative of these three ideas - but America does not have the monopoly.

 

No it doesn't. But I am grateful that I do live in a country that has these ideals. And I honor this country for it. (As I would if I lived and was a citizen of another country which had the same ideals.)

[Aquinas Academy]

It's every parent's job to pass on their value system to their children, and that may include patriotism. If it's important to you, you should most definitely make a point of instilling it in your children.

:iagree:Patriotism isn't important to me in the least. I do want to raise my children as good citizens and I hope that they will be grateful that they live in a country with such a high standard of living, but I don't feel a need to be patriotic. I've lived in Canada, US, and UK, as well as traveling extensively in Scandinavia. There are parts of each country that I love as well as parts I loathe. I don't think any country can claim to be the greatest. Yes, I do have a particular country that I love very deeply (FWIW, I am not a citizen nor do I live there), but it is certainly not superior to other countries. It is simply a nation with which I feel a deep connection. I cannot expect my children to grow up with the same love for that country or any other. They won't have the same experiences that I've had and therefore their feelings for countries will be different than mine. So in that sense, I don't really think that patriotism can be taught.

But if patriotism is something you value, then go ahead and do your best to instill it in your children. To each his own. :)

Edited June 21, 2011 by Aquinas Academy
I really can spell; my brain just isn't working right now. :)

[Liz CA]

My ds also has dual citizenship due to the circumstances at the time he was born. I do not think he has "patriotic" feelings for the one country he only visited a few times. He lives in the U.S, and considers this home. Since I never emphasized patriotism to any country, he - naturally, I think - feels and is an American.

[Rosie_0801]

Pqr, is it really necessary to blast apart an interesting conversation?

 

Rosie

 

Edit: And for a pre-emptive strike- Bill, don't you dare get started!! :P

Edited June 21, 2011 by Rosie_0801

[Jean in Newcastle]

It seems like some people are confusing patriotism (a love of country) with nationalism (an extreme of patriotism which is marked by feelings of superiority to other countries). They aren't synonymous, in my opinion.

[pqr]

Well I joined the military because the prospect of free college was dangled before me. What did I learn? Lots of stuff promised and advertised was NOT delivered. If we care so deeply, why are there service people dying on the street?

 

I don't know your story. Maybe there is a reason why you see all of it through rose colored glasses. And I get it, there truly are people in the world who have bigger problems than arguing over dumb stuff on message boards, but I still feel like you aren't able to see any other viewpoint than your own.

 

 

So free college equals force and coercion? You were in the military and do not understand why people in this country might not appreciate jokes about a lack of patriotism. How many people did you know who were FORCED to join?

 

If you have read my posts you would know that I do not see through rose colored glasses, I see many other viewpoints but that does not mean I agree with them. What I do know is that the in US we have more rights and more freedoms than anywhere I can think of (and I have been to a lot of places).

Edited June 21, 2011 by pqr

[pqr]

It seems like some people are confusing patriotism (a love of country) with nationalism (an extreme of patriotism which is marked by feelings of superiority to other countries). They aren't synonymous, in my opinion.

 

 

I would agree, but might change nationalism for jingoism.

[Tarreymere]

There would probably be a lot fewer wars if we didn't promote nationalism. Let me put my 'creds' out, I am a US Army vet, I am the daughter of a vet, the granddaughter of a vet, the mother of a vet, ect. Heck, my ex-MIL was a vet too.

 

I think nationalism is pretty poisonous no matter what country you live in. I don't think American pop culture is worth promoting. Our supposed national values of freedom, justice, and all that are eroding, due to ignorance and voter apathy. Not much to be proud of there, either. Yes, we do have a high standard of living, but our 'rights' and 'freedoms' are quickly disappearing (or haven't you heard of the Patriot Act?). It isn't enough to just have 'ideals', we need to take responsibility for ensuring that those 'ideals' are enforced. Sadly 'we the people' have a very poor track record in that regard.

 

I raise my kids to be respectful of authority while questioning it if necessary. I raise my kids to think critically. I think they can draw their own conclusions. I know I have drawn mine.

[twoforjoy]

Yes, we do have a high standard of living...

 

And even that, to me, is not a basis for loving one's country. I find the idea that we should consider the enormous wealth the U.S. has as a reason to be proud kind of odd, especially because I don't believe we achieved that wealth because we were so much nobler and harder working than very poor nations.

 

And, certainly there are other countries that have standards of living and a quality of life higher than ours. Should we feel less proud than we would if we lived there?

 

I guess I just don't get patriotism. The closest I can come to mustering a patriotic feeling is the kind of sentiment expressed in the "Hymn of All Nations":

 

This is my song, oh God of all the nations,

a song of peace for lands afar and mine.

This is my home, the country where my heart is;

here are my hopes, my dreams, my holy shrine;

but other hearts in other lands are beating

with hopes and dreams as true and high as mine.

 

My country's skies are bluer than the ocean,

and sunlight beams on clover leaf and pine.

But other lands have sunlight too and clover,

and skies are everywhere as blue as mine.

This is my song, thou God of all the nations;

a song of peace for their land and for mine.

 

I can get behind that, but I don't think I could get behind a patriotism that didn't simultaneously acknowledge that people in other countries feel the exact same way about their nation, and that we are no more justified in whatever pride/devotion we may feel than they are.

[Rosie_0801]

I guess I just don't get patriotism. The closest I can come to mustering a patriotic feeling is the kind of sentiment expressed in the "Hymn of All Nations":

 

That sounds really patriotic to me. :lol:

 

Rosie

[Jean in Newcastle]

That sounds really patriotic to me. :lol:

 

Rosie

 

Me too:)

[Peela]

We are a nation at war. Thousands of Americans have given their lives and you don't understand why people would "jump on you" for joking about patriotism? Really?

 

:chillpill::chillpill::chillpill:

[YLVD]

Well I joined the military because the prospect of free college was dangled before me. What did I learn? Lots of stuff promised and advertised was NOT delivered. If we care so deeply, why are there service people dying on the street?

 

I don't know your story. Maybe there is a reason why you see all of it through rose colored glasses. And I get it, there truly are people in the world who have bigger problems than arguing over dumb stuff on message boards, but I still feel like you aren't able to see any other viewpoint than your own.

 

This is very similar to how my partner feels. He went into the Navy and certainly does not agree with her viewpoint. His is much closer to yours.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is very similar to how my partner feels. He went into the Navy and certainly does not agree with her viewpoint. His is much closer to yours.

 

Pssst...pqr is a man.

 

Oh, brother. These threads make me shake my head.

 

I have lived and traveled all over. My dh and I are highly patriotic in that we cherish the ideals held dear by the US. I *know* some people here see those ideals differently than I do, and that is okay. In my opinion, our diversity is a lot of what makes us great. If someone would rather see themselves as s citizen of the world, that is their choice.

[EthiopianFood]

I have lived and traveled all over. My dh and I are highly patriotic in that we cherish the ideals held dear by the US.

 

But how does cherishing ideals make a person patriotic? What if another country held those same ideals? Would you then be patriotic to that country as well? What if the US completely went to pot and abandoned all it's ideals. Would you turn against the country? If it is about the ideals, then why not? This is what I don't really understand. Like you, I'm not interested in changing anyone's views on this subject. I do like to at least understand another's perspective. I understand cherishing values. I understand being patriotic because you are loyal to the country of your birth, period (i.e. tradition is a powerful thing). I don't understand how valuing American values leads to patriotism. Ideals are just... ideals. I don't understand what that has to do with a country. Logically, if you had been born somewhere else (and continued to live there), you would be patriotic to that country. I guess I don't understand the point of patriotism then, maybe?

 

:lurk5:

[JessReplanted]

I don't know about patriotism. I do think that it's important to raise our children with an attitude of thankfulness and an awareness of how blessed we are to live here.

 

I have spent time in other countries where people have to hire security guards armed with machine guns to protect their homes, where all houses are caged in by steel fences, where the police cannot be called in an emergency b/c they are so corrupt, where I had to keep a copy of my passport on me at all times (just a copy, the real one was locked in a safe so it wouldn't get stolen) just in case the police decided to question me.

 

We enjoy so many freedoms and conveniences in our country. And while I don't buy into the 'proud to be an American' thing (what did I do to be an American? nothing) I am thankful to God that I live here.

 

 

I do think that there are a lot of problems that result from blind patriotism.

Becoming a soldier does not make a person a hero. War is not just and calling ourselves 'the good guys' doesn't change that.

 

The book "Jesus for President" by Shane Claiborne really resonated with me on this topic.

[nd293]

I guess the term patriotic makes me bristle. I want my kids to be kind and thoughtful human beings who respect other cultures/countries/the environment etc. I think they should be good citizens.

 

:iagree:I would never, ever teach my kids to feel loyalty to a country regardless of the issues involved. Blind patriotism has got humanity into some serious trouble in the past.

Edited June 21, 2011 by nd293

[Melissa in Australia]

Heck no! Patriotism is un-Australian! :rofl:

 

 

If we're talking about a sense of duty, then yes. For example, if my kids grow up to be apathetic voters, it won't be my fault.

 

Rosie

:lol::lol: :iagree: we don't need to be patriotic in Australia, we already know we are the best in the world and If something wasn't invented here, it wasn't worth inventing.

[TheReader]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I don't think patriotism can be instilled, exactly. It has to be felt, in the heart, and I can model that all I want but each of my boys will have to make it his own if/when he wants to; I can't do it for him.

 

Living outside the US, while still very patriotic, it's more of a "love the motherland" patriotism for me now than a "love the greatest country in the world" sort of patriotism. I've honestly no idea which sort, if either, my boys might adopt one day. And I'm okay with that.

[Melissa in Australia]

I need to move to Australia. I can make cracks about how I'm not patriotic and nobody will jump on me. In the US I'm some kind of freak show. Really, I don't get it.

That is because Australia has complete freedom. :lol::lol:

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I doubt we disagree entirely on patriotism. I just don't believe in blind allegiance. If that is not what patriotism is about then I'm misunderstanding something.

 

Yes-you have completely misunderstood the definition of patriotism.

 

As I and others have posted previously in this thread--patriotism isn't about blind allegiance. Patriotism is simply a love of one's country-whatever country that may be. There is absolutely nothing that says it has to be blind, uninformed or imply a lack of respect toward any other country or culture. Being patriotic doesn't mean you have to be ignorant of your country's faults-historic or current and it doesn't mean you have to be 100% behind your elected officials and their policies. I am fortunate to have the love of my friends and family-I'm sure they are all (sometimes painfully) aware of my faults and foibles but they still love me--why would love for your country have to require a blind loyalty that an interpersonal relationship doesn't require?

[Rosie_0801]

:lol: :iagree: we don't need to be patriotic in Australia, we already know we are the best in the world and If something wasn't invented here, it wasn't worth inventing.

 

 

EH?

 

Go back to where you came from, Woman! I don't care how many generations ago your ancestors arrived, you are UN-AUSTRALIAN!

 

Mind you, the hills hoist was a good idea. Why don't the Americans import them? No taste in clothes lines, clearly.

 

 

That is because Australia has complete freedom. :lol::lol:

 

 

Oh, Melissa. No more, please! You're killing me!

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

 

Yes-you have completely misunderstood the definition of patriotism. Patriotism is simply a love of one's country-whatever country that may be. There is

 

Eek! Come to Australia, Wendy. We don't have to have anything so touchy-feely as a love of our country. As long as you can have a vague affection for it and barrack for us in the Olympics, all will be well.

 

:D

Rosie

[LaxMom]

 

Mind you, the hills hoist was a good idea. Why don't the Americans import them? No taste in clothes lines, clearly.

 

Rosie

Hey! My grandmother had one of those!

(huh. Maybe we ARE closet Aussies... :tongue_smilie: )

[EthiopianFood]

why would love for your country have to require a blind loyalty that an interpersonal relationship doesn't require?

 

I don't put my hand over my heart and pledge allegiance to my friends, though. :)

[EthiopianFood]

And while you may celebrate their birthday, you probably won't sing songs about how great they are.

 

Well, I do.... :tongue_smilie:

[Colleen]

 

I guess the term patriotic makes me bristle. I want my kids to be kind and thoughtful human beings who respect other cultures/countries/the environment etc. I think they should be good citizens. But it's up to them if they feel patriotic or not. My husband is not a citizen of the US so this influences the vibe in our home as well.

Agreed on all counts. I wouldn't describe myself as patriotic and don't consider it my duty to "make" my children patriotic, either.

 

[Impish]

What I do know is that the in US we have more rights and more freedoms than anywhere I can think of (and I have been to a lot of places).

Really? How about Canada?

 

I don't get the 'My country is the BESTEST in the whooooooole woooooorld' mentality. Truly don't.

 

I teach my children Canadian history. We talk about the advantages, the challenges, the good, the bad, the ugly. I'm grateful to be Canadian...I don't know about 'proud'. I didn't do anything but be born on this side of the border. Its not a personal achievement. I'm not personally to credit or blame for the overall decisions of my government, nor successes or failures.

 

My eldest is in the Navy. To imply that anything other than a rabid, unswerving 'my country is the BEST' attitude is needed to support his decision to serve is ridiculous.

 

I honestly think that the whole, 'mine is the best' is another version of 'my daddy can beat up your daddy' playground argument.

 

Just like people, every country has strengths and weaknesses. Good and bad. I don't think there is one 'best', period. I think it implies a sort of purposeful, chosen blindness.

[Colleen]

 

What I do know is that the in US we have more rights and more freedoms than anywhere I can think of (and I have been to a lot of places).

Maybe you're not thinking hard enough.;)

 

[nmoira]

Maybe you're not thinking hard enough.;)

 

:D

[Melissa in Australia]

EH?

 

Go back to where you came from, Woman! I don't care how many generations ago your ancestors arrived, you are UN-AUSTRALIAN!

 

Mind you, the hills hoist was a good idea. Why don't the Americans import them? No taste in clothes lines, clearly.

 

Oh, Melissa. No more, please! You're killing me!

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

 

Ha! Me .. Un-Australian :D.

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I don't put my hand over my heart and pledge allegiance to my friends, though. :)

 

Is reciting the Pledge of Allegiance required to be patriotic? Where is that mandated? What about patriotism in a country that doesn't have such a statement. Furthermore, if you care to interpret it in such a fashion, I certainly made a formal pledge to my husband (and vice versa) when I married him. There are plenty of folks in the US who for religious reasons feel they cannot make such an oath but they would still consider themselves patriotic.

 

But since when is love automatic, expected, and required? Maybe I just don't operate like that.

 

I thought this thread died. *sigh*

 

No where has it been stated that it is automatic or expected or even required. You are adding a variety of conditions that just aren't there.

 

I don't think I have completely misunderstood patriotism. According to Wikipedia it is love of one's country simply because one is born there. I don't believe in that. And I don't believe I could teach someone to love anything. Either they feel they do or they feel they don't.

 

Well, plenty of folks around here have been hammered before over the accuracy of Wikipedia so I won't belabor that point. However, Webster's defines it as "love for or devotion to one's country" and dictionary.com as "devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty."

 

The problem is that a number of folks here have taken a fairly simply concept, that of patriotism and have chosen to morph it into something it is not. Patriotism isn't blind loyalty, it isn't nationalism, it isn't jingoism, it isn't required to be proven (at least not in the US), it isn't cute or cuddly, and it doesn't require that those who are be disrespectful towards or think less of those from other countries, cultures and so on.

 

I'm not demanding that anyone must teach "patriotism" to their kids. Nor am I saying that patriotism should be forced or proven. I will however argue that if you are going to actively oppose patriotism then you better correctly understand what it is and what it isn't. I would even go so far as to say that mocking someone for their patriotism or implying that if they profess to be patriotic they are somehow ill informed about their own nation, prejudice against those of other nations, or a pack of over zealous fanatics is just plain rude not to mention wrong.

 

It's ironic, as one of the things I love about my country is the ability to disagree with values such as patriotism. Part of what comprises my patriotism is your freedom not to be patriotic.

Edited June 21, 2011 by JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst

[twoforjoy]

Maybe you're not thinking hard enough.;)

 

:lol:

[Colleen]

 

Is reciting the Pledge of Allegiance required to be patriotic? Where is that mandated?

Nowhere is it mandated that recitation of the Pledge is a patriotic requirement ~ but plenty of people/places over the years have indeed required said recitation. The understanding being that one who declines to participate in the Pledge is, indeed, unpatriotic (read: disloyal and un-American).

Webster's defines it as "love for or devotion to one's country" and dictionary.com as "devoted love, support, and defense of one's country; national loyalty." The problem is that a number of folks here have taken a fairly simply concept, that of patriotism and have chosen to morph it into something it is not.

You're right. That is a problem. It is a problem when not conveying "pride" in this country is, in the eyes of many, tantamount to treason. But that's indeed what those of us who aren't properly "patriotic" deal with, thanks to the nationalism (or jingoism, as pqr would have it) that permeates much patriotism.