"Good Wife" books-why do we read them?

[coffeefreak]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I'm not trying to single out any one book, nor am I trying to start a "Submissive Wife" debate, but my question is, why do we read them?

 

Good wife books actually almost destroyed my marriage. We were doing fine, and then DH got saved (I was already saved), and everyone started telling us what we were doing wrong. They started recommending all these books to me on how to be a better wife, how to love my husband, make him a better husband etc, and I fell for it. It did not end well, as a matter of fact, it almost ended in divorce with us resenting each other and forgetting who we are and why we got married. I'm happy to say, our marriage has never been better. We're not perfect, but we found those books just steered us wrong.

 

I'm seeing an upswing in my social circles of women reading them again (or dragging out some old tried and true), and it makes me sad. Do we read them because we're unhappy and we think it will be the kick in the pants to snap out of it? Do we read them to manipulate our spouses (if I make these changes he will become the DH I want)? Do we honestly read them because we recognize a flaw or sin in ourselves and want to be a better person? Or do we read them because everyone else is doing it and it's not OK to be in a happy marriage (peer pressure is why I read them)? AND if one does read such a book because she's in an unhappy marriage, does it really help? Does only one partner seeking to better herself really find long-lasting help, or is it more of an encouragement to read the book?

 

Like I said, I'm not singling any one book out, nor do I want this to turn into a submissive/non-submissive argument. I'm genuinely curious as to why we read them, and if it helps anyone. I think I'm looking to be more compassionate towards others in this situation, and less judgmental.

 

Blessings!

Dorinda

PS I posted a poll so you can remain anonymous if you wish.:001_smile:

[Mrs Mungo]

My family has gone to the same church forever. However, the young "college and career" adults have been slowly pushed out of the church over the past few years. My cousin (who has a master's in theology) had asked to teach a Sunday school class. They told her no. The offered to let her "assist" in a Beth Moore Bible study instead. She wound up leaving. She's a lot happier in her new church. My sister just gave notice that she would only teach kinderchurch a few more months.

 

My cousin just visited, we had some long talks about it. Think about the great women of The Bible. They are leaders, they are saviors, they are movers and shakers.

 

What does The Bible describe as a worthy woman?

 

Description of a Worthy Woman10An excellent wife, who can find?

For her worth is far above jewels.

11The heart of her husband trusts in her,

And he will have no lack of gain.

12She does him good and not evil

All the days of her life.

13She looks for wool and flax

And works with her hands in delight.

14She is like merchant ships;

She brings her food from afar.

15She rises also while it is still night

And gives food to her household

And portions to her maidens.

16She considers a field and buys it;

From her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17She girds herself with strength

And makes her arms strong.

18She senses that her gain is good;

Her lamp does not go out at night.

19She stretches out her hands to the distaff,

And her hands grasp the spindle.

20She extends her hand to the poor,

And she stretches out her hands to the needy.

21She is not afraid of the snow for her household,

For all her household are clothed with scarlet.

22She makes coverings for herself;

Her clothing is fine linen and purple.

23Her husband is known in the gates,

When he sits among the elders of the land.

24She makes linen garments and sells them,

And supplies belts to the tradesmen.

25Strength and dignity are her clothing,

And she smiles at the future.

26She opens her mouth in wisdom,

And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.

27She looks well to the ways of her household,

And does not eat the bread of idleness.

28Her children rise up and bless her;

Her husband also, and he praises her, saying:

29“Many daughters have done nobly,

But you excel them all.â€

30Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain,

But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised.

31Give her the product of her hands,

And let her works praise her in the gates.

 

She works, she trades, she manages a household, including the budget. She is her own woman and makes her own decisions.

 

So, I don't know why there is this backlash against strong women in the church.

[EJCMom]

I read a few very early on in our marriage because I thought I was "supposed" to. It turned me into someone my husband barely recongnized, and I think it had him scratching his head as to why I thought I needed to change to make him happy, when he was obviously already happy with the woman he fell in love with. It actually took me several years to "find myself" again after I realized that those books had done our relationship no favors. Once I found the old me again my DH actually commented at one point that it was nice to have me back. :001_smile:

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

Totally destroying my marriage. I don't think I can take this oppresive, unfeeling, spiritual abuse much longer.

[Parrothead]

I've never heard of these books.

[Snickerdoodle]

I've never heard of these books.

 

Neither have I, until I came to this forum.

[coffeefreak]

I've never heard of these books.

 

I would classify a "Good Wife" book as any book that tells a woman how to be a better wife, mother, partner, woman, etc (fill in the blank). I'm sure there are secular books out there, but I only have experience with the so called Christian ones.

[happyhomemaker25]

I have not read the other posts, I am going to assume mine will be an unpopular answer, because it is in many places.

I read them because I need a reminder that the world's view on marriage and being a wife is WRONG! I read them to counteract all the feminist view points I encounter every day. I read them to encourage myself to be the wife that God has made me to be. To learn and remind myself.

These books have helped my marriage. I am the oldest child with a younger brother. I have always had an agenda and an idea of how things should be done.

It's hard for me to reconcile those things with being the submissive wife, that yes, God calls me to be. To respect my husband and let him run our household.

It's probably easier for me though because my husband does love me with a Biblical love and does value my thoughts and opinions. He has the final say though. Period. He never runs roughshod over me. He never puts down my thoughts or opinions. I don't know how I would react if that were the case.

He has told me no and as a steady, thougtful, analytical man sometimes he makes decisions slower than I like. It's taught me patience though. Which is a good thing.

Those are my thoughts on why I read those books. Others may disagree.

[coffeefreak]

Totally destroying my marriage. I don't think I can take this oppresive, unfeeling, spiritual abuse much longer.

 

:grouphug:

[coffeefreak]

I have not read the other posts, I am going to assume mine will be an unpopular answer, because it is in many places.

I read them because I need a reminder that the world's view on marriage and being a wife is WRONG! I read them to counteract all the feminist view points I encounter every day. I read them to encourage myself to be the wife that God has made me to be. To learn and remind myself.

These books have helped my marriage. I am the oldest child with a younger brother. I have always had an agenda and an idea of how things should be done.

It's hard for me to reconcile those things with being the submissive wife, that yes, God calls me to be. To respect my husband and let him run our household.

It's probably easier for me though because my husband does love me with a Biblical love and does value my thoughts and opinions. He has the final say though. Period. He never runs roughshod over me. He never puts down my thoughts or opinions. I don't know how I would react if that were the case.

He has told me no and as a steady, thougtful, analytical man sometimes he makes decisions slower than I like. It's taught me patience though. Which is a good thing.

Those are my thoughts on why I read those books. Others may disagree.

 

I appreciate your honesty and your courage for posting. I guess I should have added "Encouragement" to the poll because that's really what you're getting at. The books encourage you in your beliefs, and your lifestyle choices which is a perfectly acceptable answer IMO.

 

Thanks for clarifying!

Blessings!

Dorinda

[Skadi]

I'm an atheist, but I am an advocate of "good wife books." Most of the ones I've read have reinforced my underlying philosophy of, "You can't change external circumstances or other people. You have to alter your mindset so that you can better adapt to what you cannot change."

 

I think it's a little misleading to say that those books almost destroyed your marriage. You and your husband's particular approach and reaction to those books was harmful to your relationship, not the books themselves. You do bring up an excellent point -- if a wife (or couple) isn't being totally honest with themselves about why they are choosing to read this sort of literature, it can do more harm than good. Then again, I have trouble imagining it could be a truly healthy relationship at the start if just reading a book could set off a powder keg. There were probably unresolved issues and assumptions already lurking that were brought to a head. EDIT: The last sentence sounds pretty condescending, so I wanted to apologize for that and clarify that I use that sentence often to describe just about every relationship I have with other people, as a reminder that I can't go through life with blinders on just because it makes for a pretty view. I hope that makes sense.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Skadi

[Parrothead]

I would classify a "Good Wife" book as any book that tells a woman how to be a better wife, mother, partner, woman, etc (fill in the blank). I'm sure there are secular books out there, but I only have experience with the so called Christian ones.

Oh, those things. I get it.

 

The only self-help book I've ever wanted to read was TWTM. The rest seem a bunch of malarkey.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I think that it's natural for us to want to be a "Better" wife. I mean, it's a pretty huge role in most married women's lives, and just like we want to be good moms, we want to be good wives. And I don't think that researching how to do that better is necessarily bad.

 

The bad part comes when you take a book and assume that the writer has ALL of the answers and that every single sentence applies to your marriage and that you should then follow her advice to the letter.

 

That is just foolish.

 

In all of these "Good Wife" books, there are bound to be a few good suggestions. Some may even have a whole lot of good suggestions/ encouragement. However, we must always remember that we are not married to HER husband, we are married to our OWN husband. We need to always stack up advice and suggestions and exhortations to our own Biblical knowledge (if that is what you are going for) and our own husbands.

 

It makes little to no sense to put flowers on your husbands bedside table because a writer suggested that it will make him pleased you thought of him, if you know it pisses him off to have "your" stuff on "his" side of the room. KWIM? And if you know that your husband likes you in jeans and thinks you look hot when you are in a ball cap, why in the world would you start wearing dresses all the time just because some author told you that "most" men like their wives to dress more feminine?

 

Anyway, all that to say while these books can be helpful, they start being harmful when you listen to them above your own self and your own husband.

[jewellsmommy]

The only books for the wife that I have read are Power of a Praying Wife and For Women Only . Though written for the wife, I don't think these count so I didn't vote. I enjoyed both greatly, especially For Women Only. It lead to such great conversations for dh and I, that he went and read For Men Only. But these weren't about how I could change or get better. In fact, the first one was more about changing him! :lol: The second one was about understanding dh better and it worked so well that dh wanted to understand me better.

 

These books were done through a small women's ministry/bible study group. It was a great night out with the ladies with coffee and prayer time. I signed on to do it before the books were even selected. So, I didn't choose because of the books. Honestly, I would never have read either otherwise. We also read Bad Girls of the Bible and Really Bad Girls of the Bible. I loved these! Such a unique twist to a light Bible study, I totally recommend. These books all have a lesson to take away that can lead to self betterment. But, I do that for me, not because I think dh deserves a better wife. Shoot, he's lucky and he knows it :lol:.

 

I say if you are reading books that make you feel like crap, please stop reading it. You are obviously not at a place in your life where that book is good for you. And, if you feel bad about yourself, it will effect your marriage.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

nm

Edited May 31, 2011 by JENinOR

[tntgoodwin]

I don't believe I have ever read a "Good Wife" book...;)

[KnitWit]

I don't.

[kchara]

I voted because I see a flaw in myself, but I think encouragement might be a more appropriate answer. I believe that we will always have room to grow, and room to improve, and I seek to do that in my marriage. I have seen where these books and so-called "experts" have been used as abusive to women in a church or other spiritual setting. There are certain books I not only don't recommend, but I will outright tell people how very dangerous there are. Now, there are only maybe one or two I wholeheartedly recommend. They help me grow. One that makes me feel guilty or "not enough _________," I toss. Probably the one I've seen recommended most often and most highly not only didn't help my marriage, it hurt it.

[coffeefreak]

I'm an atheist, but I am an advocate of "good wife books." Most of the ones I've read have reinforced my underlying philosophy of, "You can't change external circumstances or other people. You have to alter your mindset so that you can better adapt to what you cannot change."

 

I think it's a little misleading to say that those books almost destroyed your marriage. You and your husband's particular approach and reaction to those books was harmful to your relationship, not the books themselves. You do bring up an excellent point -- if a wife (or couple) isn't being totally honest with themselves about why they are choosing to read this sort of literature, it can do more harm than good. Then again, I have trouble imagining it could be a truly healthy relationship at the start if just reading a book could set off a powder keg. There were probably unresolved issues and assumptions already lurking that were brought to a head. EDIT: The last sentence sounds pretty condescending, so I wanted to apologize for that and clarify that I use that sentence often to describe just about every relationship I have with other people, as a reminder that I can't go through life with blinders on just because it makes for a pretty view. I hope that makes sense.

 

Our relationship was very healthy until doctrine got in the way. However, I am used to your opinion. Peer pressure is a huge part of many churches and society as a whole. These books are probably helpful if used in the correct way, hence the question I'm posing. I find that while I try not to pass judgement on those that read them, and instead have compassion for their situation, plenty of judgement is passed on me for not reading them. I am only being honest about why I read them (past tense) and how it affected us. Thank you for apologizing, as I would prefer answers that only pertain to you as an individual, not judgement of others.

 

Blessings,

Dorinda

[simka2]

Totally destroying my marriage. I don't think I can take this oppresive, unfeeling, spiritual abuse much longer.

 

:grouphug: I am so sorry. I know very deeply how these types of books can be used to destroy a person. PM me anytime.

[happyhomemaker25]

I think that it's natural for us to want to be a "Better" wife. I mean, it's a pretty huge role in most married women's lives, and just like we want to be good moms, we want to be good wives. And I don't think that researching how to do that better is necessarily bad.

 

The bad part comes when you take a book and assume that the writer has ALL of the answers and that every single sentence applies to your marriage and that you should then follow her advice to the letter.

 

That is just foolish.

 

In all of these "Good Wife" books, there are bound to be a few good suggestions. Some may even have a whole lot of good suggestions/ encouragement. However, we must always remember that we are not married to HER husband, we are married to our OWN husband. We need to always stack up advice and suggestions and exhortations to our own Biblical knowledge (if that is what you are going for) and our own husbands.

 

It makes little to no sense to put flowers on your husbands bedside table because a writer suggested that it will make him pleased you thought of him, if you know it pisses him off to have "your" stuff on "his" side of the room. KWIM? And if you know that your husband likes you in jeans and thinks you look hot when you are in a ball cap, why in the world would you start wearing dresses all the time just because some author told you that "most" men like their wives to dress more feminine?

 

Anyway, all that to say while these books can be helpful, they start being harmful when you listen to them above your own self and your own husband.

 

YES! This. Sometimes when I mention I have read a certain book some people gasp and reprimand me. What they don't understand is I can take good stuff from the book and leave the rest. My husband and my marriage are TOTALLY unique.

[Aquinas Academy]

Totally destroying my marriage. I don't think I can take this oppresive, unfeeling, spiritual abuse much longer.

:grouphug: I am so sorry, Jen.

[mommaduck]

I don't anymore. Good is subjective and many are downright horrible to dangerous.

[SnowWhite]

I voted "other". I am very selective in my choices for self-improvement books. I read and enjoyed "Homeschooling with a Meek and Quiet Spirit" by Teri Maxwell. I put it in the same category with "Charlotte Mason Companion" by Karen Andreola.

 

I read such books because I find them uplifting and encouraging. They give me tools for my daily life that make my days run more smoothly. It's akin to the FlyLady's pep talks or my Weight Watcher leader's inspirational talks. I take them as cheerleaders for my "game plan."

 

I do NOT read nor enjoy prescriptive nor "corrective" books. My relationship with my dh is unlike that described in the wifely submission teachings. Like the OP, I find that we fell in love because our personalities complement each other. My dh does not want anything less than the strong woman to whom he proposed 16 years ago.

[Gratia271]

Our relationship was very healthy until doctrine got in the way. However, I am used to your opinion. Peer pressure is a huge part of many churches and society as a whole. These books are probably helpful if used in the correct way, hence the question I'm posing. I find that while I try not to pass judgement on those that read them, and instead have compassion for their situation, plenty of judgement is passed on me for not reading them. I am only being honest about why I read them (past tense) and how it affected us. Thank you for apologizing, as I would prefer answers that only pertain to you as an individual, not judgement of others.

 

Blessings,

Dorinda

 

This reminded me of a conversation I had with someone several years ago. She asked me my opinion about a specific book, and I simply stated that it did not comport with our (DH and I) views of marriage. I further stated she should read it for herself to determine whether it worked for her. A firestorm erupted at my church among the ladies with whom she shared this generic comment. It was pathetic.

 

DH and I prefer to read the scriptures together and decide for ourselves. We find the source text superior to people's interpretations of it. ;)

 

ETA: I voted other... I don't read these books now.

[Cricket]

DH and I prefer to read the scriptures together and decide for ourselves. We find the source text superior to people's interpretations of it. ;)

 

:iagree: I'm starting to see this as well! I read a few of those good wife books. I think it was from a desire to do it "right." I'm now realizing that some people aren't comfortable with the vagueness of the Bible. They like very definite dos and don'ts. It is evident in the patriarchy movement. There are rules on how long a hemline should be, what kinds of material should be used to make clothes, etc. It is fine to have opinions about those things. It is also fine for women to share what works for them in their marriage. However, I think leaders and teachers within the church should encourage young wives to make decisions for themselves after searching the Bible and their own consciences.

[AuntieM]

Good Wife books, and the shifting (extrabiblical) definition of a "good" wife have been negative influences on some of my relationships. I would never give one as a gift.

 

The Good Wife books written to previous generations have affected relationships between many a gal and her mom/mil.

 

I know they have a place, but serving as a plumb line from which to judge the performance o other women, well, that's not it.

[Abigail4476]

I don't read a lot of books intended for women specifically, but I would place most of these types of books into an inspirational self-help category. And that said, I do like to read books about how to be a better person in various ways, whether that be citizen, wife, mother, human being, etc.

 

I always read books with a critical eye and I don't take anyone's word for anything, particularly books that are supposed to be based in scripture. I routinely double check references and if I don't agree with the author's conclusions, no biggie. Scripture and my understanding of it are the final authority in the forming of my personal beliefs.

 

Since I'm such a critical reader, I have a hard time understanding how a couple could be gullible enough to allow a book or sermons or church doctrines to destroy their relationship. I'm not trying to be judgmental with that statement; I'm just saying I don't understand it how it happens. Perhaps the OP, who has experienced it, can give more insight into the process.

 

Add to that, I also believe in taking ownership of our choices and actions, and it seems somewhat disingenuous to say that a failed marriage is the fault of books, authors, the church, other people who said this or that, etc. :confused: If our marriage failed, I would be looking inward--into our home and into my heart. It may or may not be my doing, but that's still where I would start my investigation.

[6packofun]

I voted other. I think it's a sort of literary commiseration that I'm looking for--along with encouragement once I realize that I'm not the only one with issues and a dh with issues. LOL Do I know this deep down anyway? Sure. Am I smart enough to figure things out on my own? Sure, most of the time. But I like the wisdom of other's experiences and being pointed back to the Biblical reasons for acting and reacting in a way that pleases God.

 

Coming to a homeschool forum like this is like reading a self-help book many times. On many different subjects! LOL

[elizabeth]

I find them beyond ridiculous. I give them away like so much other dross.

[Carol in Cal.]

I put 'other'. I read them sometimes because I read voraciously about everything that I'm interested in, and I'm interested in marriage. That's all.

 

I don't feel like they are the voice of God. But some of them have some good ideas. I filter that a lot.

 

And, BTW, I don't limit myself to the Christian ones or the very fundamentalist brand of Christian ones. I read a range.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Carol in Cal.

[Audrey]

Good is subjective.

 

:iagree: I don't read any self-help relationship books. I voted 'other.'

[DarlaS]

Never read one. I have been given one or two by my mother (:tongue_smilie:).

 

I haven't seen them in years. I usually hand them back to her a few weeks later (or somehow sneak them back into her house. :sneaky2:). She doesn't give me books anymore.

[dangermom]

I like to read, and sometimes I read self-help type books, but most often I'm coming at it with a "let's see what this person's POV is"--not because I think I'm going to use the suggestions, but because I'm curious what's in the book.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

I don't read a lot of books intended for women specifically, but I would place most of these types of books into an inspirational self-help category. And that said, I do like to read books about how to be a better person in various ways, whether that be citizen, wife, mother, human being, etc.

 

I always read books with a critical eye and I don't take anyone's word for anything, particularly books that are supposed to be based in scripture. I routinely double check references and if I don't agree with the author's conclusions, no biggie. Scripture and my understanding of it are the final authority in the forming of my personal beliefs.

 

Since I'm such a critical reader, I have a hard time understanding how a couple could be gullible enough to allow a book or sermons or church doctrines to destroy their relationship. I'm not trying to be judgmental with that statement; I'm just saying I don't understand it how it happens. Perhaps the OP, who has experienced it, can give more insight into the process.

 

Add to that, I also believe in taking ownership of our choices and actions, and it seems somewhat disingenuous to say that a failed marriage is the fault of books, authors, the church, other people who said this or that, etc. :confused: If our marriage failed, I would be looking inward--into our home and into my heart. It may or may not be my doing, but that's still where I would start my investigation.

 

Well, have you ever been to a church where a woman was brought under church discipline because she disagreed with such a book and this woman and family have been kicked out of the church ( a whole lot messier and heartbreaking that that little one liner) and you could be next?. And, has your chuch's womens group gone through such a book and forbade you and the rest of the group upfront to challenge or disagree? Have you been scared to mention what you are discerning to your husband because the said book says that jezebel spoke bad about the church leaders and turned her husband against them? We have come out of that 'church' along with several other families (again, a whole lot scarier than my one liner), but the damage is still going on in my home. Dh and I were newly married and saved when we started going to this church and went for nearly 10 years. The elders wife called this book the bible for women.

[Oops, duplicate account :/]

:grouphug:

 

:grouphug: I am so sorry. I know very deeply how these types of books can be used to destroy a person. PM me anytime.

 

:grouphug: I am so sorry, Jen.

:crying:

 

It is all so sad. Thank you for the TLC.

[KnitWit]

Oh ((((Jen)))) That is awful and that is the very kind of thing that just makes me MAD.

[simka2]

Well, have you ever been to a church where a woman was brought under church discipline because she disagreed with such a book and this woman and family have been kicked out of the church ( a whole lot messier and heartbreaking that that little one liner) and you could be next?. And, has your chuch's womens group gone through such a book and forbade you and the rest of the group upfront to challenge or disagree? Have you been scared to mention what you are discerning to your husband because the said book says that jezebel spoke bad about the church leaders and turned her husband against them? We have come out of that 'church' along with several other families (again, a whole lot scarier than my one liner), but the damage is still going on in my home. Dh and I were newly married and saved when we started going to this church and went for nearly 10 years. The elders wife called this book the bible for women.

 

Oh, precious! My heart breaks for you! You are not a Jezebel!!!! You aren't. Have you guys read "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse?"

[DarlaS]

Anyone notice only one person responded with "I want my spouse to change."

 

:lol:

 

Now that's honesty. :tongue_smilie:

[Mimm]

I don't read books about how to improve my marriage or how to be a better wife or how to make my husband a better husband or any self help books, really. I used to go to a church that liked these books and I did a study with some other women about how to pray for your husband (a whole book about that...) and I thought it was silly but I liked chatting with the other women there so I kept going till we finished the book, which I promptly discarded and never applied to my life. If my husband and I have disagreements, we talk about it. Sometimes we fight about it. We eventually compromise. This works for us. We have what I would consider a pretty solid marriage.

[KnitWit]

The elders wife called this book the bible for women.

 

It is always interesting to me that in these situations of pushing this kind of relationship between men and women, it seems to always be the WOMEN who are pushing it/teaching it and the men just follow along. Ironic.

[UnsinkableKristen]

I had a friend who told me that she always has a pen with her whenever she reads and if she doesn't agree with a word, sentence, paragraph or page, then she just marks it right out :D. Serves as a visual reminder for herself that she doesn't have to agree with every word.

 

Obviously, this isn't for fiction reading (LOL), but for Good Wife books, Christian living books, household management books, finance books, etc. I've started to do this same thing, and it is wonderfully freeing. I have one book about managing a large family that I LOVE for its practical advice, but there is a large section about scheduling your babies that I totally disagree with. Instead of tossing the whole book, I just took my pen and crossed out all the stuff that I didn't agree with and ignore it whenever I am rereading the book for inspiration. :D

[FO4UR]

It is always interesting to me that in these situations of pushing this kind of relationship between men and women, it seems to always be the WOMEN who are pushing it/teaching it and the men just follow along. Ironic.

 

 

Seeking validation...:auto:

 

 

ETA: I think these books are prevalent today b/c there has been such change in family structure/society in the past few generations...a backlash from feminism so-to-speak. I don't like the idea of taking what works and ignoring what doesn't from these books b/c *some* of these books were written with specific intentions and it's difficult to know (esp if you are vulnerable b/c of marital problems) what is based on faulty theology/logic and what is not (all of them claim to be Godly and Biblical). With self-help books, the authors' intentions are everything imHo.

 

I think a lot of the Christian marriage books, specifically, can be like adding lighter fluid to a flame if there is emotional/verbal abuse going on.

Edited May 31, 2011 by 3blessingmom

[Peela]

There was a point in my marriage when I read The Surrendered Wife and it was good for me at that very point. I was trying to control tooooo much. I was resentful, carrying a lot of baggage from my feminist mother and grandmother. I experimented with surrendering- not to my husband's ultimate authority, but surrendering my need to be in control all the time, and to be over reactive to my dh's desire for some control. It was a very healthy growth for me.

 

I have read other books along those lines over the years, here and there, and there is always something in them that I can take away.

 

However...I do not submit my authority to anyone but God (I am not Christian but I think my concept of God is similar enough for the point being made), who put his authority in my heart, and everyone's heart. I feel strongly we are meant to be our own authorities and trust ourselves- that's why we were given intelligence. I am not talking egoic authority- I am talking inner knowing. The times of patriarchal authority are gone, and the time of institutionalised thinking and trusting others to take care of us, including institutionalised religions that disempower us, are going. Meanwhile, we scramble for how to best live our lives in integrity, and I think it is possible to glean wisdom from many sources, and a lot of old fashioned wisdom is still wisdom. I just don't think we are meant to swallow anything hook line and sinker anymore- we are to use discernment and ultimately, to take complete responsibility for ourselves, not blame anyone else.

[justamouse]

Well, have you ever been to a church where a woman was brought under church discipline because she disagreed with such a book and this woman and family have been kicked out of the church ( a whole lot messier and heartbreaking that that little one liner) and you could be next?. And, has your chuch's womens group gone through such a book and forbade you and the rest of the group upfront to challenge or disagree? Have you been scared to mention what you are discerning to your husband because the said book says that jezebel spoke bad about the church leaders and turned her husband against them? We have come out of that 'church' along with several other families (again, a whole lot scarier than my one liner), but the damage is still going on in my home. Dh and I were newly married and saved when we started going to this church and went for nearly 10 years. The elders wife called this book the bible for women.

 

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I can't even imagine. that is horrible.

 

No, I don't read them. Pffft.

[UnsinkableKristen]

Meanwhile, we scramble for how to best live our lives in integrity, and I think it is possible to glean wisdom from many sources, and a lot of old fashioned wisdom is still wisdom.

 

 

Love this.

[coffeefreak]

:crying:

 

It is all so sad. Thank you for the TLC.

 

Jenn, I've obviously BTDT and I WISH I had words of wisdom. We received Church discipline too, and it took 4 years to heal. Hang in there.:grouphug:

 

It is always interesting to me that in these situations of pushing this kind of relationship between men and women, it seems to always be the WOMEN who are pushing it/teaching it and the men just follow along. Ironic.

 

:iagree:

 

And, to answer some of the questions asked about women who follow these books and then it actually hurts their marriage, it's not that these women are gullible. Trust me, I am FAR from gullible. I question everything, read both sides to every story, and tend to have a rebellious spirit. However, the term spiritual abuse is accurate when it comes to churches that insist if you're not doing ABC than you're not really "right with God." It's about wanting to do the right thing, and it's about breaking some generational issues. A lot of the reason my DH and I were peer pressured into reading the books and changing was because our past was brought into the picture. The question was asked, "Do you want your children to go through the same things you went through?" We were also watching friends and family older than us, sometimes by only 5 years suddenly fall apart, and their marriages were destroyed. They were reading these books and it was put to me, "If you don't read this and learn from it now, you will end up like us. I wish I had read these books sooner." As an impressionable, young women, who was also a newer Mom, it was hard not to take that advice from these ladies that I respected and looked up to. Their marriages seemed to be like mine once upon a time. They were supposed to be divorce proof, and you want to do the right thing. It's not that these women are gullible, it's that they're looking for help and these books are given as the answer.

 

As for the peer pressure, when you speak out against a belief in one of these books, many times you are told you are not right with God, and if you were, you would understand where the author was coming from and agree with her.

 

Recently, I was part of a Bible Study where the next book is a Good Wife book, and I declined saying, I'd just rather not. I was pressured with the reasoning that the book is about how to be a better wife and better mother. That this would give me new insight into loving my husband and children better, even when they're unlovable. When I said I just wasn't interested but thank you anyway, the response was shocking. It was mentioned that everyone can stand to be a better wife, and don't I want to bless my husband? Obviously, at 36, I'm a lot wiser to those tactics than I was at 28, but think about how manipulative that is. This plays on our fears and insecurities.

 

I want to remain friends with these women. I actually was not angry, but feeling sorry for these women, because I figured they must all be miserable in their marriages. That's why I started the thread, because I really do want to understand. And it's already been helpful. I can see some of them are reading it for encouragement and I respect that.

 

And, I just want to point out, this is not a problem exclusive to Christianity. I've seen it in the secular world too. How many people read "The Secret" and changed their entire lives because Oprah recommended it?

 

OK, sorry to make that so long. It's just really nice to be able to discuss this intelligently SOMEWHERE! And really, where better to discuss it than on a forum with so many different women from so many different backgrounds?:001_smile:

 

Blessings,

Dorinda

[coffeefreak]

Meanwhile, we scramble for how to best live our lives in integrity, and I think it is possible to glean wisdom from many sources, and a lot of old fashioned wisdom is still wisdom. I just don't think we are meant to swallow anything hook line and sinker anymore- we are to use discernment and ultimately, to take complete responsibility for ourselves, not blame anyone else.

 

Peela,

You just say the wisest things:D

Dorinda

[Abigail4476]

Well, have you ever been to a church where a woman was brought under church discipline because she disagreed with such a book and this woman and family have been kicked out of the church ( a whole lot messier and heartbreaking that that little one liner) and you could be next?. And, has your chuch's womens group gone through such a book and forbade you and the rest of the group upfront to challenge or disagree? Have you been scared to mention what you are discerning to your husband because the said book says that jezebel spoke bad about the church leaders and turned her husband against them? We have come out of that 'church' along with several other families (again, a whole lot scarier than my one liner), but the damage is still going on in my home. Dh and I were newly married and saved when we started going to this church and went for nearly 10 years. The elders wife called this book the bible for women.

 

I realize that when personal stories are brought into the conversation, it becomes nearly impossible to discuss issues without hurt feelings or offense. It's not my aim to add to your hurt, because I've personally experienced hurt from the church. That said....

 

Without going into details--yes, I did go through something similar. I was on staff at a very conservative church and left with aspersions made to my good name and no recourse to defend myself or repair the situation. I gave a 30 day notice, stuck it out without talking bad about the pastor and his wife, without muddying the waters by gossiping about my problems to other members, and left with my integrity intact. (e.g., in a way that allowed me to feel good about not stooping to their level)

 

We moved away. We lost friends--some of them lifelong--and are still working on trusting leaders in the church. That said, I don't see how that could have destroyed our relationship--unless there was an existing problem with our relationship to begin with. The solidarity of our marriage was there, so we addressed the problem as a couple. My husband didn't turn on me and side with the church; he got to the bottom of it, and we took action that was right for our family.

 

I guess all I'm saying is: If a marriage dissolves because of a third party, was the relationship solid to begin with?

 

Another example that comes to mind is when women whose husbands aren't saved go to the pastor for everything and side with the church/church leadership against their spouse. And then they wonder why the marriage fails or the unsaved spouse is *turned off* by the church. A wife's first priority after her personal relationship with God is her husband. In fact, so much so, that in the New Testament there's a scripture about how an unmarried woman can devote her life to the Lord, but a married woman cares about "worldly things" and how she might please her husband.

 

Which brings me back to: If a marriage dissolves because of church discipline, for example, was it because one spouse placed more importance on the church than on their spouse or their marriage? Is it truly the fault of the third party? Or was there some gullibility, ignorance or misplaced priorities in play? Something else entirely?

 

Some of these situations are unique to the church culture, especially in certain denominations and cultures. People's brains get twisted inside out, maybe to the point of being brainwashed, and they can't make good, clear decisions anymore. That's a much deeper problem than "I read a book and it destroyed my marriage." That's all I'm saying. I don't see blaming an author for the dissolution of a relationship.

[AnthemLights]

For encouragement/inspiration/renewed vision.

 

Not necessarily because something is wrong. I have an awesome dh and I feel our marriage is great, but I feel like I can always do better or that I just need to be reminded of some things.

 

I am one of those though that find it easy to disregard what I see as wrong/harmful/unbalanced or whatever. I know not everyone can do this as easily. I have a sister who struggles with reading anything like this. Very much the same upbringing.....so different personalities? :confused: