Not Wanting this to get lost...

[TheAutumnOak]

Here is something to read about John Holzmann and Sonlight having their troubles with homeschooling conventions for being the wrong kind of Christians; this situation is also connected to Ken Ham. I don't know the people at this site, so I am not claiming to be sure that all information is verified. Just showing why Holzmann might have had something to say about the manifesto thing.

 

I really don't want this link to get lost amidst everything else that is going on...Please read the article in "Here is something to read" link...

 

I don't think it is Godless chatter, but actually something key to consider in light of what is happening today...

[Mom22ns]

Wow.

Just Wow.

[Jean in Newcastle]

This was just linked in the "Who owns homeschooling" thread as well.

[mcconnellboys]

I think this is completely valid to the current debate. Ham went after Sonlight before he went after Peace Hill Press - and he will continue to go after others if he is allowed to do so....

 

While I am not a preterist, I do appreciate that there are many points of disagreement over the Bible within the Christian community. None of these mean that the Bible, itself, is wrong in any way. They simply mean that we human beings are not capable of always properly interpreting what God is attempting to tell us. If only we could remember that all the prophets and the law hang upon the two great commandments we would all be okay - but we don't seem to be able to do that, either....

[Carol in Cal.]

Glad you posted this. There is a big picture, and it's coming into focus, isn't it.

[Blueridge]

Oh my gosh. I had never connected the two (SL and Mr. Ham) before now. Thank you for the insights.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'd like to hear from Sonlight users on this one.

There used to be a lot of them on this board.

Have there been far-reaching results from the CHEC problems that you know of? It's been 3 years now that Sonlight is banned from the Christian convention in its own back yard. What is Sonlight doing about that at this point?

[TheAutumnOak]

I'd like to hear from Sonlight users on this one.

There used to be a lot of them on this board.

Have there been far-reaching results from the CHEC problems that you know of? It's been 3 years now that Sonlight is banned from the Christian convention in its own back yard. What is Sonlight doing about that at this point?

 

Yes, I wonder this as well...I was not around when this took place with Sonlight...I hope all of this doesn't have too much of a negative impact on Peace Hill Press...

[WTMCassandra]

Wow. Thank you for the information.

[ScoutTN]

Thanks for the link! I missed it or didn't follow it in the longer thread.

Gives a lot of perspective!

[Heather in WI]

Oh my gosh. I didn't know Ken Ham was involved in the Sonlight thing.

 

So, you're telling me this is his modus operandi? Wow. Just wow.

[In2why]

Oh my gosh. I didn't know Ken Ham was involved in the Sonlight thing.

 

So, you're telling me this is his modus operandi? Wow. Just wow.

 

 

Yeppers.....and I am convinced that it is more about power than doing God's work. I find it dangerous that anyone person can hold that much sway over a large group of homeschoolers.

[AvasMom]

I'd like to hear from Sonlight users on this one.

There used to be a lot of them on this board.

Have there been far-reaching results from the CHEC problems that you know of? It's been 3 years now that Sonlight is banned from the Christian convention in its own back yard. What is Sonlight doing about that at this point?

 

Sonlight is still going better than ever from my observations. I think things like this blow over and the accuser just ends up looking ridiculous and ends up being known for being soft in the head. PHP will continue to rock in spite of Ken Ham and his silly antics.

[Carol in Cal.]

Sonlight is still going better than ever from my observations. I think things like this blow over and the accuser just ends up looking ridiculous and ends up being known for being soft in the head. PHP will continue to rock in spite of Ken Ham and his silly antics.

 

Well, thankfully SWB has much more going on than just homeschooling sales. She's writing the history of the whole world, in a popular style but with scholarly content, for adults, she is a professor, she has written published fiction that has received very good reviews, and she has also written published non-fiction that is completely orthogonal to homeschooling.

 

She has far more credibility and is far less vulnerable than others who have become embroiled in homeschooling kertuffles.

 

ETA: She has also been wise enough to be relatively slow to react and then her measured responses have been consistent with each other and have not AFAIK needed to be edited. She's not the one who is putting things up and taking them down over and over. So she demonstrates a certain gravitas that is very compelling.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Carol in Cal.

[Woodhaven]

"Bump!"

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[gardening momma]

Glad you posted this. There is a big picture, and it's coming into focus, isn't it.

 

Oh my gosh. I had never connected the two (SL and Mr. Ham) before now. Thank you for the insights.

:iagree: I also didn't know anything about why Sonlight was banned from CHEC, except for being "not Christian enough."

 

ETA: and did you see how many spelling/grammar errors CHEC made? They couldn't even get people's names right.

Edited April 4, 2011 by gardening momma

[amydavis]

Glad you posted this. There is a big picture, and it's coming into focus, isn't it.

 

Yes, and it's quite scary...

Wow.

[Nakia]

Thanks for posting that. This just gets more and more disturbing. :glare:

[texasmama]

We are on our third year with SL Cores and loving it because it is a program which presents many different views and encourages critical thinking.

 

I agree with Sonlight that it is my job as a parent to discuss and teach my own personal/family beliefs, not to mindlessly follow any curriculum's viewpoint. The CHEC (and Hamm, apparently) both seem to have a goal to present an incredibly narrow world view (approved only by themselves) to children who are being homeschooled.

 

As a conservative, evangelical Christian homeschooling mom, I say to them "No thanks!". I say to Sonlight and John Holtzman, "Keep up the good work!"

[ELaurie]

I'm speechless.

 

Thank you for posting this link.

[MtnTeaching]

Wow.

I am a Colorado homeschool parent. I have watched the CHEC conference become more and more narrow in their views, watched the convention hall become smaller, and the speakers become more and more feverent in their "talks".

 

I just returned from the Cincinnati convention for just this reason. I refused to be a part of the CHEC conference this year.

 

I also met with John Holtzman and another homeschool parent about two years ago for a discussion regarding the possibility of getting a more inclusive homeschooling "convention" going in CO. I have never used the Sonlight curriculum, but felt his treatment by the CHEC leadership was illogical and unfair. It was, and still is my view, that while CHEC's leadership may fully believe it is doing God's will, I believe it is actually doing great harm to the homeschooling community in Colorado. They are dividing the state.

 

I had no idea that Ken Ham was a part of this. It is all beginning to make sense. Very unsettling sense.

 

Thank you for posting this.

[MrsBasil]

Wow! CHEC is free to parents of preschoolers who are new to homeschooling this year and I was hesitantly considering going.

 

The theme didn't appeal to me and I could tell from the website and certain statements that I am not considered the right of kind of Christian, but I figured some of the talks might have value and it would be extremely helpful to see materials in person.

 

However, these links you provided are just too much. I don't want to go and support that in any fashion.

 

The link to Kevin Swanson's blog response really rubbed me the wrong way. Particularly the part about "such wrangling usually only provides fodder for the silly women Paul speaks of..." but yet there is hope in the Christian brothers who care about unity.

 

I'm hormonal lately, but that read so paternalistic and condescending to me.

[asta]

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

 

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

 

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

 

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

- Pastor Martin Niemoller

 

(you can read about him on wiki)

 

 

asta

[ScoutTN]

bump :)

[ELaurie]

I am a Colorado homeschool parent.

I just returned from the Cincinnati convention for just this reason.

 

 

I think I was sitting behind you in the session with the Duggars on Saturday evening :001_smile: I was amazed that a family would travel all the way from CO to a conference in OH, until I read this thread, and then I thought, "I wonder if that explains why they came to OH?"

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[gardening momma]

Wow! That's exactly what I wondered when I saw this photo of the Duggar females with Doug Phillips! Right above his post about all the "gracious" supporters of Ken Ham.

In that post about supporters of Ken Ham: "Hundreds of gracious, respectful home educators are at the GHC convention wearing buttons communicating their support for Ken Ham."

 

I saw a handful of people with buttons. Maybe 4? And two homemade ones (really just circles of paper pinned to the clothing). I saw 2-3 shirts with statements on the back. That's it.

[Guest micahmartin5]

The article linked above is very accurate. It was written by my brother and I was attending Mr. Swanson's church when this all happened. I know for a fact that Mr. Swanson was contacted before the article was published in an effort to present his side of the story. He never responded.

 

These "leaders" are not interested in open discussion or defending their "inspired interpretations" from logic or exegesis. They are only interested in squashing any debate or scaring people into submission and indoctrination. As a homeschool graduate (from the 80's & 90's before there were huge conventions) I am glad to see these "leaders" loosing control and influence.

[Truscifi]

Not to derail, but what is preterism?

[TheAutumnOak]

Wow! That's exactly what I wondered when I saw this photo of the Duggar females with Doug Phillips! Right above his post about all the "gracious" supporters of Ken Ham.

 

It does make more sense now...

[Liz CA]

They simply mean that we human beings are not capable of always properly interpreting what God is attempting to tell us. If only we could remember that all the prophets and the law hang upon the two great commandments we would all be okay - but we don't seem to be able to do that, either....

 

Amen!

[Guest micahmartin5]

Preterism is the belief that most or all of Bible prophecy is fulfilled. It comes from a Latin word that means "past". http://www.planetpreterist.com has a great intro/explanation and you can go here if you would rather see a video introduction.

Blessings,

Micah

[Mosaicmind]

I have found that Christians are the worst at shooting their wounded. Why can't we just agree to disagree on the non-important things? Instead we slam each other at every chance we get and don't care what it looks like to others, only that we are vindicated and our point is made.

[Anne Rittenhouse]

I've watch this debate as an interested ex-homeschooler who is actually quite thankful not to have negotiate the political/religious minefield of this year's homeschool conventions. We left Christianity several years ago when we left the country to pursue better job prospects. The reason we left Christianity at the time was what is now know as "steeplejacking".

 

It seems to me that Mr. Ham is systematically "steeplejacking" the mainstream homeschool movement. I think it is high time that those of you who have been brought together by education take a good look at what is happening in mainline Protestant churches and look again at what is happening to yourselves. Does this change your response? Should it change your response? What will it take for all to understand that the viewpoint of homeschooling cohesiveness is a "bit like herding cats" is just what Mr. Ham and his ilk want?

[H.S. Burrow]

Oh my gosh. I didn't know Ken Ham was involved in the Sonlight thing.

 

So, you're telling me this is his modus operandi? Wow. Just wow.

 

 

We didn't know who Ken Ham was before all of this started. I mean, we had heard of AiG, but not him specifically.

So, my DH did some looking around on the internet.

This is just one example of what's out there. It's about the Virginia Tech shootings a few years ago.

[In the Rain]

Interesting. I knew about CHEC and Sonlight, but hadn't seen Ham's name associated with the situation until now.

[Paisley Hedgehog]

nm

[4wildberrys]

I'd like to hear from Sonlight users on this one.

There used to be a lot of them on this board.

Have there been far-reaching results from the CHEC problems that you know of? It's been 3 years now that Sonlight is banned from the Christian convention in its own back yard. What is Sonlight doing about that at this point?

 

SL user right here since 2005! Yes, I remember when SL got banned from CHEC, but I wasn't a big forum user so never got too up in arms about it. SL is going stronger than ever, just like SWB and Peace Hill Press will. Why? Because 'we' the Homeschool Moms in the Trenches OWN Homeschooling---so therefore we make our 'own' decisions about curriculum and what and how we teach our children! Period. I think visiting forums and chatting and reading is what really fans things like this out of control----and I guess the fact that since 2008, we as a society have become SOOO much more attached to things like FB and blogs etc. which allow us to get the impression that this is a 'huge' deal. But in reality, it's not impacting my daily homeschooling life----as I suspect it's not impacting most other homeschoolers. Heck---as a Catholic, I've never even been to a convention because most of them would be inhospitable to my brand of faith anyways :tongue_smilie: Or so I hear from my fellow Catholic friends who left the nearest convention in a huff because of offensive comments made by a speaker.........

 

Personally---I think the whole homeschool convention thing is overrated. I don't need to attend one to stay motivated, to believe in what I'm doing or to pick curriculum.......and I suspect I'm not alone. ;)

[Carol in Cal.]

I actually liked the article about VT right until the last paragraph--that took it apart right there.

 

In the rest of it, KH did not blame the attacks or anything else that's wrong on anyone or any specific sin, but rather on the fallen world. That's reasonable theology, and many old earth Christians would join in and agree with the Fall messing everything up, even if they don't believe in a literal Fall or maybe just in literal 6 day creation.

 

But then the last paragraph really ruins that point, because it implies (without saying so) that there is something specific in that place, that college, that department that makes this disaster somehow more likely to happen there. And that is a departure into blaming the victim that is really, entirely repugnant.

[Quad Shot Academy]

Wow.

I am a Colorado homeschool parent. I have watched the CHEC conference become more and more narrow in their views, watched the convention hall become smaller, and the speakers become more and more feverent in their "talks".

 

 

:iagree:

 

CHEC completely changed after Swanson took over, even right down to the newsletter. We financially supported them and went to the conferences until 2002. I never wanted to go back after that. (But I think I did one year to hear SWB talk.) Then the newsletter got so bad that I don't even read it anymore. It goes straight into the trash.