Great Homeschool Conventions kerfluffle, continued

[Mommyfaithe]

Not to mention "undermining the faith of our children" (!?)

 

You can also show support on the facebook page of Great Homeschool Conventions:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Great-Homeschool-Conventions/133893509962887

 

done

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

I remember posting a few days ago that it would be entertaining to see a 'cat fight' on this. But wow! I sure wasn't expecting it to blow up as it has!

[Tree House Academy]

I truly hate to hear that Ken Ham was the speaker to which you were referring in your last thread. It upsets me greatly to think that he would "talk trash" about others while trying to speak about the Bible. That is not Biblical at all. I took my children to see one of his conferences recently when he was in my area. I am deeply disappointed in him and what he stands for now. It is sad, too, because he was a really engaging speaker.

 

I am glad the convention is taking a stand. They did the right thing.

[gardening momma]

On the other hand, the convention may have to consider giving refunds. If I had made travel and hotel arrangements to see a particular speaker and then the organizers had disinvited them, I would feel quite bitter about what might seem like a bait and switch.

BUT--the convention is not about Ken Ham. If it were a Ken Ham convention, I'd agree. But there are so many more speakers and vendors to see besides Ken Ham. The people who have bought tickets bought them for a convention with a multitude of speakers. If a speaker they had planned to see--even if it was the only speaker they had planned to see--became very ill at the last minute and could not come to the convention, should they get a refund? No. Because the convention is not about that one speaker.

[Mrs Mungo]

BUT--the convention is not about Ken Ham. If it were a Ken Ham convention, I'd agree. But there are so many more speakers and vendors to see besides Ken Ham. The people who have bought tickets bought them for a convention with a multitude of speakers. If a speaker they had planned to see--even if it was the only speaker they had planned to see--became very ill at the last minute and could not come to the convention, should they get a refund? No. Because the convention is not about that one speaker.

 

Case in point? Jesse Wise had to bow out of the SE conference.

[pdalley]

I'll be sending messages of support to the convention people. It looks like Ken Ham is deleting any comments on his Facebook that are anything other than supportive, so that would be wasted effort.

 

 

This does not surprise me in the least.:glare:

 

So glad this happened before I bought any of AiG's products. (My local Christian bookstore has them and I make it a point to buy local if possible) I will go in and request the last of the STOW's I need from there I do believe.

 

Verse deleted. I do not know if the person we are speaking of is a whitewashed tomb or not. It was more of the attitude I was thinking of - poor choice on my part

Edited March 23, 2011 by pdalley

[gardening momma]

Matthew 23:27 springs to mind.

I think that is going a bit far.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

BUT--the convention is not about Ken Ham. If it were a Ken Ham convention, I'd agree. But there are so many more speakers and vendors to see besides Ken Ham. The people who have bought tickets bought them for a convention with a multitude of speakers. If a speaker they had planned to see--even if it was the only speaker they had planned to see--became very ill at the last minute and could not come to the convention, should they get a refund? No. Because the convention is not about that one speaker.

 

You have a good point. But this isn't a matter of a speaker getting ill or poor weather grounding their plane. I don't think that Mr. Ham just decided to get out of the civility box this month. I think that his character has probably been pretty well known.

 

I'm trying to consider how I would feel if I had planned to attend to see SWB and then she had been disinvited (although we can see that her temperment makes an identical scenario very unlikely, there are other reasons why people have complained about her). I would feel very crushed and unhappy. I think many people posting were considering this a Ken Ham and company convention. In part because I think they have difficulty conceiving of well intentioned, sincere homeschoolers who would hold other beliefs.

 

One of the FB comments suggests a walkout for AiG supporters to go over to the creation museum instead. While I'm sure that would have a negative impact on other vendors, I can't say I mind the idea of fewer people between me and the books I want to fondle in the vendor hall.

 

(You know, I volunteered to teach science labs for a homeschool coop at my church next year. I'm now wondering what sort of minefield I may have set myself up for. My life does not need more drama.)

[Hedgehogs4]

Christians have a harder time getting along than anyone else in the world. I wish this had never happened. I pray that God will redeem this situation and forgiveness wins out in the end. I'm sorry that these attacks were leveled at SWB, and I truly respect her responses. I am also sorry that Ken Ham has behaved in this way and at least for a time marred his own reputation.

 

Philippians 2

1 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others. ...14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing, 15 so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.â€[c] Then you will shine among them like stars in the sky 16 as you hold firmly to the word of life.

[pdalley]

I think that is going a bit far.

 

Determining who does or does not get into heaven is a Pharisaical attitude - IMO. The Pharisees added to God's commandments - made a strict list of rules that determined who could or could not get into heaven - according to them. That's probably not the correct verse to illustrate my feelings.

 

Any one who claims to be a Christian and say X is not a 'true' Christian because of a belief that is not essential to the Salvation doctrine is someone I would believe had a Pharisaical attitude. Also the is the reluctance to allow any disagreement or difference of opinion - another thing that the Pharisees were strict about.

 

This is the way I see it. I do not claim to speak for God or anyone else. I do not like bullies and Dr. Ham's statements - from his facebook postings on this matter - and his outrage that anyone would be upset that he personally attacked others is reminding me of the that type of thinking. I understand being passionate about the gospel and one's beliefs but personal attacks deserve to be called out.

[amey311]

 

(You know, I volunteered to teach science labs for a homeschool coop at my church next year. I'm now wondering what sort of minefield I may have set myself up for. My life does not need more drama.)

 

Maybe you'll have a fun experience like, who was it? FaithManor? Who was told she was "disinvited" from doing the labs, but could the group please use her supplies?

[Hedgehogs4]

I think that is going a bit far.

 

I agree that Matt. 23:27 is going too far in reference to Ken Ham. He is human just as the rest of us are. Perhaps God is disciplining him for his good, because he is loved as a son...as we all are. I think there's a fair amount of mud-slinging going on on this thread from people who also call themselves Christians. Let us not be quick to judge, but hope that God works in Ken's life to humble him and restore him. He is someone who desires to defend the faith and the Word of God. What he did may be out of line, but he is a brother. I think that GHC has only exercised Christian discipline in this case--as they should. But it grieves me nonetheless.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

 

One of the FB comments suggests a walkout for AiG supporters to go over to the creation museum instead. While I'm sure that would have a negative impact on other vendors, I can't say I mind the idea of fewer people between me and the books I want to fondle in the vendor hall.

 

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking!

[gardening momma]

That's probably not the correct verse to illustrate my feelings.

Hopefully not. I think he's misguided, not "inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness" as the verse says.

[Sue G in PA]

Well, I have a headache now. This whole thing disgusts me. I like Ken Hamm. (throw tomatoes if you want). Yet, I am deeply disturbed by his behavior at this conference. What really bugs me is that he felt the need to "warn" intelligent adults about the content of another speaker's presentation. Can we not form our own opinions? Are we not informed enough that IF another speaker were "speaking against the Christian message" (and I am NOT saying Dr. Enns was) that we could figure that out for ourselves. I pray that Ken Hamm can come to repentence about this and realize where he was wrong. It saddens me that Susan was put through this at the conference. Truly. I am excited about going to the NE convention (AiG or no AiG). There are lots of other fabulous speakers from whom I hope to gleam lots of great little "nuggets". I am young Earth. I believe in literal Scripture, 6 day creation, etc. However, I also 100% agree with Dr. Enns when he said we are missing the point entirely. It's all about JESUS! And THIS sort of disagreement does NOT glorify God, point to Jesus, show love, compassion, mercy, forgiveness, etc. Not in the least. And I am speaking about the treatment of ALL persons involved...even Ken Hamm. He was WRONG, but to speak out against him and slander HIS name on THIS forum is equally as sinful, is it not? Aren't we al doing the same thing to him that he was doing to Dr. Enns and SWB and Jay Wile? 2 wrongs do NOT make a right and we are not to repay evil with evil. And with that I am :auto: so as not to have my face smashed with tomatoes. Love you all.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I agree that Matt. 23:27 is going too far in reference to Ken Ham. He is human just as the rest of us are. Perhaps God is disciplining him for his good, because he is loved as a son...as we all are. I think there's a fair amount of mud-slinging going on on this thread from people who also call themselves Christians. Let us not be quick to judge, but hope that God works in Ken's life to humble him and restore him. He is someone who desires to defend the faith and the Word of God. What he did may be out of line, but he is a brother. I think that GHC has only exercised Christian discipline in this case--as they should. But it grieves me nonetheless.

 

I think that it is also important to remember that a lack of kindness toward other homeschoolers, based only on their use of AiG materials is also unfounded. I am thinking in particular of one very gracious woman who not only let me come over to watch her homeschool her daughters when I had questions, but who came over the week my eldest was born to teach me how to get him to latch on.

AiG and the interpretation they espouse was definitely her family's point of view. She didn't let that justify a lack of charity toward others.

[mcconnellboys]

I must say that in light of all the sniping he has organized, I am not sorry to see him gone and hopefully a more congenial convention atmosphere.....

[KristinaBreece]

I was just on the GHC facebook page, and I would just like to say:

 

I <333 Aubrey.

[pdalley]

Hopefully not. I think he's misguided, not "inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness" as the verse says.

I'm sorry. I chose a very incorrect verse to illustrate my point.

[Sophia]

What really bugs me is that he felt the need to "warn" intelligent adults about the content of another speaker's presentation. Can we not form our own opinions? Are we not informed enough that IF another speaker were "speaking against the Christian message" (and I am NOT saying Dr. Enns was) that we could figure that out for ourselves.

 

This is not to pick on you Sue, but I would like to point out that many, many people on this board take it upon themselves to "warn" other intelligent adults about other teachers/presenters.

 

One poster who attended (Greenville) said she warned her friends about the VF people...weren't they intelligent enough to form their own opinions?

 

I'm sure they are...she, like all of us, offer our opinion(s) to people we think would share them. It's not unreasonable for Ham to surmise people at his talk would be interested in what he had to say about another Bible curriculum. Kind of like everyone always wants to know what SWB says about other Language Arts programs.

 

I do find the whole thing sad.

Christlike behavior is lacking all the way around imo.

[Mrs Mungo]

This is not to pick on you Sue, but I would like to point out that many, many people on this board take it upon themselves to "warn" other intelligent adults about other teachers/presenters.

 

One poster who attended (Greenville) said she warned her friends about the VF people...weren't they intelligent enough to form their own opinions?

 

That was me (I don't mind outing myself). My friends had never heard of VF. I explained some of VF's stances. I never said VF were attackers of Christ or implied they were heretics. I never questioned their faith. That is where disagreement devolves into personal attacks.

[gardening momma]

What is VF? I didn't see it in the list of abbreviations.

[Mrs Mungo]

What is VF? I didn't see it in the list of abbreviations.

 

Vision Forum

[Sophia]

That was me (I don't mind outing myself). My friends had never heard of VF. I explained some of VF's stances. I never said VF were attackers of Christ or implied they were heretics. I never questioned their faith. That is where disagreement devolves into personal attacks.

 

I have no idea what you said or how you explained VF's stances, (and I have heard many distorted and exaggerated explanations in re. to VF) nor do I care to enter into a discussion of how you perceive them, as my point is it is not unheard of or meant to be insulting to "warn" other people.

To do so is not to question their intelligence, but to offer concerns you believe will be shared.

[Nan in Mass]

"...now infiltrating the homeschooling movement..." !!!

 

Surely there were people among the first homeschoolers who believed in evolution? He makes it sound as though all homeschoolers up until now only believed in creation. This can not possibly be true. If nothing else because I have been homeschooling for ten years and I believe in evolution. It is hard to believe that he has overlooked something so obvious, or thinks he can get away with ignoring it. This would certainly make me doubt any other arguments he put forth.

 

-Nan

[TechWife]

Most likely the web site is managed by an outside provider and it takes time for any changes to filter down the communication chain.

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I have no idea what you said or how you explained VF's stances, (and I have heard many distorted and exaggerated explanations in re. to VF) nor do I care to enter into a discussion of how you perceive them, as my point is it is not unheard of or meant to be insulting to "warn" other people.

To do so is not to question their intelligence, but to offer concerns you believe will be shared.

 

Ken Ham IMO did more than warn others. In reference to Dr. Enn's teaching, he said, "It is an attack on the Word—on Christ." To me this clearly crosses the line in a big way and attacks Dr. Enn's beliefs:(.

 

IMHO I am happy that he will not be speaking at these conferences:)

[tkeller]

So correct me if I've missed something, but so far no one has come forward and claimed to have personally heard these attacks at the last conference?

[Mrs Mungo]

So correct me if I've missed something, but so far no one has come forward and claimed to have personally heard these attacks at the last conference?

 

There were a few people. For example:

Thank you for letting us know. My family and I attended the conference and were very troubled by his comments concerning other speakers in attendance.

 

While I am a young earth creationist, I am not offended that there are Christians who are not. I only hope the feeling is mutual. I don't want this kind of division in the body of Christ, but the body is full of imperfect people.

 

[TechWife]

It isn't that he disagrees with another speaker, it's that he attempted to discredit the other speaker by launching an ad hominum attack. Such personal attacks discount their arguments.

 

It would have been much better had he stated a particular position that Dr. Enns took, then refuted it objectively. Instead, he chose to launch a non-specific attack against Dr. Enns. It is one thing to articulate your viewpoint on the facts, it is an entirely different thing to articulate your views on the person with the goal of turning others against them.

[Penelope]

This is not to pick on you Sue, but I would like to point out that many, many people on this board take it upon themselves to "warn" other intelligent adults about other teachers/presenters.

 

One poster who attended (Greenville) said she warned her friends about the VF people...weren't they intelligent enough to form their own opinions?

 

I'm sure they are...she, like all of us, offer our opinion(s) to people we think would share them. It's not unreasonable for Ham to surmise people at his talk would be interested in what he had to say about another Bible curriculum. Kind of like everyone always wants to know what SWB says about other Language Arts programs.

 

 

There is a huge difference between attendees warning personal acquaintances and friends about presenters, and a speaker with a professional relationship with a convention warning against a fellow speaker and vendor.

 

It would be like SWB making a blog post telling people to stay away from Anti-Classical Creative Writing Curriculum at the convention, and to avoid the author of ACWC and her talks, because she will lead your children astray with her promotion of the heresy of creative anti-academic writing. :tongue_smilie: Only not really. Because writing philosophy is not as serious or personal as faith and theology.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Penelope

[gardening momma]

It would have been much better had he stated a particular position that Dr. Enns took, then refuted it objectively. Instead, he chose to launch a non-specific attack against Dr. Enns. It is one thing to articulate your viewpoint on the facts, it is an entirely different thing to articulate your views on the person with the goal of turning others against them.

I think he was specific in his disagreements (from what I have read, anyway), but he didn't need to use names. As you said, he could have stated that there are hs writers/publishers/etc with XYZ beliefs/claims/positions and this is why he disagrees.

[melissel]

Oh dear. The comments on the GHC Facebook page (and probably Ham's page as well, though I have no time for that drivel tonight) are making this secular HSer rethink attending the conference at all :(

[melissel]

So correct me if I've missed something, but so far no one has come forward and claimed to have personally heard these attacks at the last conference?

 

And people actually in attendance at at the conference visited Susan at the PHP booth to let her know what was being said.

[simka2]

Oh dear. The comments on the GHC Facebook page (and probably Ham's page as well, though I have no time for that drivel tonight) are making this secular HSer rethink attending the conference at all :(

 

Nah, don't do that! It is wonderful thing to hold these curriculums in your hands, grab a latte, and have some planning time ;).

 

Don't let them ruin that for you!!!

[5knights3maidens]

I don't know if anyone has seen this yet:

http://www.answersingenesis.org (I can't get my computer to copy and paste!) There is a write-up about all this.

 

Ugh...this whole thing is like telling homeschoolers to not buy this or that and stay away from this person and that person ...AND, like a church telling you what clothes you can wear, who to "hang around", and what books to read!! :glare:

In all reality there are so many "varietys" of homeschoolers whether we like it or not and not everyone wants a christian view. (And I am a christian.) You can not "force" christianity or your opinion on anyone.

On your own website you can say what you want but at a "public" convention you need to use common sense and courtesy.

Ohhhh, I think I'm done....:tongue_smilie:

[JudoMom]

This is what Ken Ham has to say on his FB note:

 

Ken Ham did mention Peter Enns by name in one of his five talks at an earlier South Carolina convention in Greenville organized by Mr. Dean. Ken showed two video clips of Dr. Enns, done in the context of showing how some modern Christian speakers are compromising God’s Word in Genesis. Ken did say that Dr. Enns was also speaking at the conference and had connections to another convention speaker, Susan Wise Bauer. In another talk about a common Christian viewpoint that compromises Genesis, Ken briefly mentioned that one of the speakers at this convention took that view.

 

So he definitely did mention them in his talk in a negative manner.

[Indygirl]

I agree that Matt. 23:27 is going too far in reference to Ken Ham. He is human just as the rest of us are. Perhaps God is disciplining him for his good, because he is loved as a son...as we all are. I think there's a fair amount of mud-slinging going on on this thread from people who also call themselves Christians. Let us not be quick to judge, but hope that God works in Ken's life to humble him and restore him. He is someone who desires to defend the faith and the Word of God. What he did may be out of line, but he is a brother. I think that GHC has only exercised Christian discipline in this case--as they should. But it grieves me nonetheless.

 

:iagree:

I am bummed about all of this. I was really looking foward to hearing him next week in Cinncy.

[TN Mama]

Ken Ham just posted a big 'response'....http://www.facebook.com/notes/ken-ham/aig-responds-re-being-eliminated-from-homeschool-conventions/186618808050260

 

 

I just posted this on Ken Ham's FB wall: You can refute beliefs/ideologies/interpretations all you like, but when you start naming names and commenting that fellow believers are "attackers of Christ" because they have a different viewpoint.....in my opinion, a line is crossed. I'm very disappointed. :(

 

And this on Cinci Convention FB wall: While I happen to largely agree with what Mr. Ham teaches, I cannot support his recent comments & actions towards fellow presenters- it was unprofessional & should not be condoned. He could have chosen to refute or disagree/criticize the ideologies of others- there is nothing wrong with debate. Yet, he crossed the line with personal attacks & spiritual judgement. Homeschool conventions should not be a platform for such behavior. Thank you.

 

Oooh, I just liked your post!

[GWOB]

I attended the Cincy convention last year. Overall, I was blown away by the variety of speakers and left the convention feeling recharged and inspired. However, I did walk out of one seminar due to the speaker's constant bashing of Catholics. Why am I mentioning this? People (thankfully not many of the logic-minded ladies here) are flipping out over uber-conservative Ken Ham getting kicked out of the convention due to his childish, tacky, and utterly un-professional behavior, yet many current speakers can bash Catholicism all they want without any consequences. Do I think the Great Homeschool Conventions board did the right thing? Absolutely! Not only did he behave like an illogical child, but he likely violated his contract. Also, the decision to exclude Ken Ham makes me more likely to want to attend future conventions. I just wish the GHC people would extend the same courtesy towards Catholics. (BTW, I'm not Catholic. I just HATE any divisions within the Body of Christ.)

[TN Mama]

I was just on the GHC facebook page, and I would just like to say:

 

I <333 Aubrey.

 

:iagree:

[TN Mama]

Nah, don't do that! It is wonderful thing to hold these curriculums in your hands, grab a latte, and have some planning time ;).

 

Don't let them ruin that for you!!!

 

:iagree: Besides - most of the people posting the type of responses you're talking about say they're not coming now! More room for us!

[Slartibartfast]

I attended the Cincy convention last year. Overall, I was blown away by the variety of speakers and left the convention feeling recharged and inspired. However, I did walk out of one seminar due to the speaker's constant bashing of Catholics. Why am I mentioning this? People (thankfully not many of the logic-minded ladies here) are flipping out over uber-conservative Ken Ham getting kicked out of the convention due to his childish, tacky, and utterly un-professional behavior, yet many current speakers can bash Catholicism all they want without any consequences. Do I think the Great Homeschool Conventions board did the right thing? Absolutely! Not only did he behave like an illogical child, but he likely violated his contract. Also, the decision to exclude Ken Ham makes me more likely to want to attend future conventions. I just wish the GHC people would extend the same courtesy towards Catholics. (BTW, I'm not Catholic. I just HATE any divisions within the Body of Christ.)

 

You are right, people shouldn't be bashing other faiths.

[ELaurie]

By the way, Dr. Wile has another blog post up in regard to this discussion.

 

http://blog.drwile.com/?p=4647#more-4647

 

Here is a partial quote:

 

 

I think Dr. Wile is a class act.

 

Thank you for posting this link as well. :iagree:

[KnitWit]

I have never been so disheartened in my life as I feel tonight after reading some of the comments on these blogs and facebook pages. God have mercy on us. It seems we have learned nothing, or we at least have the accent on the wrong syllable.

[ELaurie]

Ken Ham just posted a big 'response'....http://www.facebook.com/notes/ken-ham/aig-responds-re-being-eliminated-from-homeschool-conventions/186618808050260

 

 

I just posted this on Ken Ham's FB wall: You can refute beliefs/ideologies/interpretations all you like, but when you start naming names and commenting that fellow believers are "attackers of Christ" because they have a different viewpoint.....in my opinion, a line is crossed. I'm very disappointed. :(

 

And this on Cinci Convention FB wall: While I happen to largely agree with what Mr. Ham teaches, I cannot support his recent comments & actions towards fellow presenters- it was unprofessional & should not be condoned. He could have chosen to refute or disagree/criticize the ideologies of others- there is nothing wrong with debate. Yet, he crossed the line with personal attacks & spiritual judgement. Homeschool conventions should not be a platform for such behavior. Thank you.

 

 

Well said.

[Guest pianomama]

I'm just happy that I chose to attend the Great Homeschool Convention and that they did the right thing. I'm happy to continue supporting them. It's a refreshing change from 2 years ago when Sonlight was told they were not Christian enough to attend the CHEC conference. :glare:

 

CHEC, 3 years later, still does not allow Sonlight to participate in the conference.

[FaithManor]

Well, I think that we all need to be careful how we approach this subject. It can be very, very easy to get so wrapped up in expressing our angst that we fall into the trap of the ad hominem attacks that we decry!

 

So, let me say that though I am YE leaning and have enjoyed a Ken Ham talk or two in the past, I can not agree with any speaker's ideology that goes against the clear teaching of scripture that we are to interact with our fellow believers in grace, love, patience, and forebearance, shunning divisiveness, and NOT calling into question other believers' personal convictions as the aposle Paul made it very clear that we walk in the light we have...that some are convicted of things that others are not, that we should not seek to cause another brother to stumble.

 

I can respect Ken Ham as my fellow brother in Christ while clearly seeing the flaws in his attacks on others. I don't have to attack him personally see the errors in his logic and gracefully, courteously point them out.

 

I think one of the things that disturbs me the most is the verse that says we should attempt to be above reproach. Other verses indicate we should be upright in our dealings and not to enter into "oaths" lightly. A contract is an oath to do or not do specific things under specific circumstances. Mr. Ham signed a contract, as did the other speakers, that he would not denigrate other vendors, speakers, or products. Specifically saying "Do not buy this product," is a violation of the contract. If others did this as well, then I hope that the convention organizers will take appropriate action. As Christians, we do not further the cause of Christ by willfully violating legally binding contracts for the sake of personal convictions which again, the New Testament clearly indicates are for each believer and not "rules" of faith or salvation for every Christian.

 

Therefore, since I consider Ken Ham to be my brother in Christ, I hope and pray that he sees his error which has grieved his fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and will seek to ask for forgiveness.

 

And yes, to the poster who mentioned my "disinvite" to teach science labs based on the fact that we allow our children to do the yoga exercises that come with our Wii Fit Plus (apparently, this is viewed by some Christians in our area as "allowing a pagan influence into our home" - boy would they freak if they knew how much I love the posts of the non-Christians on this board), I KNOW what it's like to be on the receiving end of ad hominem attacks, though this has never affected my lifelihood which would add a deeper layer of angst if that had happened). It isn't pretty. There are a lot of things I can handle; there are a lot of things Jay Wile, Susan Wise Bauer, and Dr. Enns can handle. BUT, and this is huge, to have your very salvation attacked based on an allegation of a belief in something which has no bearing on salvation itself, to be called "an attack on the Word, and attack on Christ", well that strikes deep and painfully. BTDT...I've never posted about being "disinvited" to teach a first grade Sunday School class (at a church we no longer attend), because I couldn't possibly be saved since I knew so much "secular" history. Seriously, to me I couldn't conceive of the concept that humans existed in two completely separate realms...the "Christian" and the "secular" and therefore, these two dimensions do not overlap and should not be studied together. Wow! I wanted to say, "Yeah, well I'm waiting for the mother ship to beam me up as I am clearly not on PLANET EARTH!" It's an ugly position to find oneself in and as soon as you attempt to defend your faith, no matter how gracious and courteous you are, the ad hominem attacks get even worse.

 

I will say this, in all the years I've taught science labs K-12, I've never really had to address origins. Really! I am so busy teaching the scientific method, teaching the students how to use the equipment, properly fill out lab sheets, record results, and understand the basic underlying scientific principles, that a philosophical discussion of how life, where life, and when life began, never gets brought up. So, the group that disinvited me had nothing to fear except fear itself.

 

Sadly, many times, the most vicious attacks brought against fellow believers at the behest of fellow believers, are based on fear. Instead of discoursing calmly, rationally, and graciously, fight or flight kicks in and things get out of control.

 

Faith

[Mrs Mungo]

CHEC, 3 years later, still does not allow Sonlight to participate in the conference.

 

I intended to say that I am glad *other* conventions have taken a different turn and we have more options. If people want a highly restrictive conference there are already plenty of them out there.

[mcconnellboys]

I find it interesting that Mr. Ham accuses the convention board of not coming to him to speak to him in a Christian manner about these matters before sending him a letter of dismissal.

 

But did Mr. Ham speak with the organizers of the convention about his disagreements with one or more of the other speakers, telling them that he could not in good faith speak at their conventions without raising the issues that he had with them? I think not. Why are the convention organizers held to a different standard than he, himself?

 

Did Mr. Ham speak with any of the speakers whom he defamed about his differences with them before speaking to others about them in public? I don't get the impression that he did.

 

And did he only speak out against Peter Enns? Or did he also defame others, as numerous people who attended his workshops or visited his booth reported?