Conservative Christians: Harry Potter

[Hedgehogs4]

My ds9 has been playing with a ps girl (also age 9) who is also a Christian. This girl has been allowed to read all the HP books, including the last one and has seen all the movies. She tells ds all about the books and he is becoming interested in them.

 

We are not anti-magic--we do read fairly tales, Lord of the Rings (ds9 is reading The Hobbit right now), etc. I just don't know if I should allow the HP series to become a dominant factor in my son's mind by encouraging him to read the books. More importantly, how does this affect him spiritually? What do you think?

[Hedgehog]

I think it's a good yarn; perhaps not in the league of The Lord of the Rings in terms of literary quality, but not that different otherwise. Having said that I haven't got very far in the series so I'm not sure how JKR writes about the kids growing up. I don't think I would want my dc reading anything if the moral standards presented deviated much from my own; JMO. And like anything else, I believe in "all things in moderation", so I wouldn't be happy if a favorite book (or anything, really - hobbies, etc.) became overly absorbing and started pushing other things out of their life; I want my dc to have a rich experience and enjoy many things.

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

Read them.

This is how we made our decision to let our kids read them.

After my youngest son finished the last book (he was about 12) I asked him to tell me the main theme running through the books. He said the greatest thing is love.

 

Do I tell you to let your son read them, no. This is something you have to do on your own (and husbands). Each child is different. It did not effect my children's Christianity. They did not focus on the wizardry or become interested in witchcraft. We discussed the books with my children as they read them. I also read the book Looking for God in Harry Potter. It helped me verbalize things we found in the book.

[susankenny]

Hi,

 

My husband and I love the Harry Potter movies (admittedly, we have not read the books, but I hear they're great!). Having said that, my 9 year old has not read the books or seen the movies. She's not asking to either, so if the situation was reversed, my reply might be different. I don't mind my children watching the films or reading the books, but we'll probably wait until they're 11 or 12. My kids are sensitive though, and I feel the movies can be intense (although awesome!), and I heard the books become more intense the further along you go.

 

Having said that, this is just my opinion. We don't have a conviction about HP though, so that doesn't play into our decision. For us, it's just about age appropriateness, and we tend to be a little more conservative about TV and movies...so that contributes to my reply.

 

Susan

[Down_the_Rabbit_Hole]

I wanted to add, the first 3 books are written slightly differently then the last 4. As the children get older and as the evil force gets stronger the books do get darker and more involved. I would not let a young child read these (under 11), the first three I have no problem with for the under 11 crowd.

[johnandtinagilbert]

Now that ds is 13yo and an avid reader with discernment and a solid foundation of his personal faith, I let him read them all this year. Before that, b/c he was impressionable, no way. So, I'd say there isn't a magic age, but a level of maturity.

 

We have only let the oldest three watch the first movie. I found the others were heavily dark in content and we have the belief that visual images stick with a person forever, whereas, in a book, the child can only imagine to his limitations, which are based on his experience.

 

Dh and I watched the first 3, maybe 4 movies, so we could be a part of the larger discussion.

[Georgiana Daniels]

When my oldest was in 3rd grade and it was all the rage for teachers to read this to kids at school I adamantly refused to let my daughter be part of it.

 

Then she grew up. She's got a solid foundation and reads the books/watches the movies. No problems on my end.

 

In our family we make 'em wait:)

[Mommybostic]

I have always been perplexed when folks say books like Harry Potter are damaging and encourage witchcraft, etc. It is a STORY, and a pretty good one at that. It covers the basic issues of any good story (and life!) Good versus evil, love conquering all, loss, sacrifice, friendship, acceptance, you name it. However, at the end of the day, it is simply a story. It does not encourage children to engage in witchcraft (what does that even mean, anyway?) and it doesn't cover anything morally inappropriate that I could tell. I have read all seven books many times over.

 

I will say the books do get darker as time goes on, and the only issue would be an age/maturity one, just as with any book, movie, etc. Even at that, it's not hard core gore or mature themes. As always, it's left up to a parent's judgement. The first book makes a great read and is on a pretty easy level. Good luck!

[Harriet Vane]

I am an evangelical Christian with somewhat conservative theology. I teach Bible study skills seminars, direct children's programs, and have lived/worked as an unofficial inner city missionary for many years (unofficial because I am not financially supported or designated as a formal missionary, but by choice do live and volunteer extensively in an impoverished, crime-ridden, African-American neighborhood in the city). I also have a degree in English and Rhetoric and teach literature classes at the high school level to home school co-ops.

 

In the Bible, the witch craft that is warned against is specifically interacting with demons in order to cause things to happen (telling the future or healing or other).

 

Harry Potter never interacts with demons. There is no character in the series that does, ever.

 

Harry Potter's magical powers are more like superpowers, like Superman's or Wonder Woman's. If JK Rowling had applied a different vocabulary (not used the words "witch" or "wizard") then there would be NO biblical issues. However, as this is fantasy fiction, set in a clearly fictional world, the author can use whatever vocabulary she chooses and apply a meaning that is specific to HER created world. This is a normal element of fantasy fiction in general.

 

Harry Potter's powers bear NO resemblance in any fashion to any form of witchcraft in the real world (either in terms of demonic interaction or in terms of pagan worship), and it is impossible to replicate anything he does in real life because none of us in the real world have super powers.

 

Harry Potter is in fact, highly moral and ethical throughout the books. There are many wonderful life lessons in the books, lessons that can even bring the reader to a better understanding of Christ's sacrifice. I have a high opinion of these books and the skill with which they are written.

[Lizzie in Ma]

I am an evangelical Christian with somewhat conservative theology. I teach Bible study skills seminars, direct children's programs, and have lived/worked as an unofficial inner city missionary for many years (unofficial because I am not financially supported or designated as a formal missionary, but by choice do live and volunteer extensively in an impoverished, crime-ridden, African-American neighborhood in the city). I also have a degree in English and Rhetoric and teach literature classes at the high school level to home school co-ops.

 

In the Bible, the witch craft that is warned against is specifically interacting with demons in order to cause things to happen (telling the future or healing or other).

 

Harry Potter never interacts with demons. There is no character in the series that does, ever.

 

Harry Potter's magical powers are more like superpowers, like Superman's or Wonder Woman's. If JK Rowling had applied a different vocabulary (not used the words "witch" or "wizard") then there would be NO biblical issues. However, as this is fantasy fiction, set in a clearly fictional world, the author can use whatever vocabulary she chooses and apply a meaning that is specific to HER created world. This is a normal element of fantasy fiction in general.

 

Harry Potter's powers bear NO resemblance in any fashion to any form of witchcraft in the real world (either in terms of demonic interaction or in terms of pagan worship), and it is impossible to replicate anything he does in real life because none of us in the real world have super powers.

 

Harry Potter is in fact, highly moral and ethical throughout the books. There are many wonderful life lessons in the books, lessons that can even bring the reader to a better understanding of Christ's sacrifice. I have a high opinion of these books and the skill with which they are written.

 

Lovely Strider, well done. Glad you did it, I don't have the time today. It is a topic near and dear to my heart. I absolutely love Harry Potter. It's themes are those that make the best of books unforgettable. Personally, my life would be poorer without having Harry, Hermoine, Ron, Hagrid and Dumbledore as friends. My kids feel the same way.

 

I've written about it a couple of times.

http://www.aworkinprogress.net/2010/...-fanatics.html

http://www.aworkinprogress.net/2010/...-partings.html

__________________

 

(she writes in the freezing house wrapping her Gryffindor scarf more tightly around her neck) :D

Edited December 10, 2010 by Lizzie in Ma
add

[kalphs]

I would recommend reading Gladys Hunt's section on HP in her book "Honey for a Child's Heart" first.

Then move onto John Granger's book, "Looking for God in Harry Potter."

Granger, a homeschooling parent himself was once a skeptic of the HP series, but now he is teaches on the topic for Barnes and Noble.

In my own opinion as a literary analysis/apologetics teacher I share the same opinion as Hunt and Granger.

The books do have merit in teaching children about right/wrong, making wise decisions, friendship etc...

The books are set in a literary "magical world" to tell the story. However I do not see real witchcraft at work in the stories.

Another good essay to read is J.R.R. Tolkien's on "Fairie Stories."

In his essay Tolkien explains the reasoning/purpose for fairie stories and why they are important.

I would recommend reading the series with your children, as Granger did.

That way as questions come up you can discuss them together as a family.

Have fun reading!:001_smile:

[johnandtinagilbert]

Strider, I hear you, but wanted to add: many people do not expose their young dc to Harry Potter b/c HE is the source of HIS power and this is contrary to Christ being the center of a Christian's strength. Others believe the series glorifies witchcraft enough that their child may take lightly the differences between witchcraft culture and Christian culture, encouraging complacency in their own faith and a hyper-interest in witchcraft, i.e. a seed planted. Also, because HP is fighting against evil, many children would be very frightened b/c they are sensitive to things of this nature (Hell hounds, rising from the dead, the power of words (spells)). I believe these are all valid concerns...concerns that can be dealt with as maturity allows, but still valid concerns.

 

To each his own. Like I said, my older, mature kiddo, who asked and showed interest owns the series (I buy them for him at the Friends of the Library books store for dirt cheap) and enjoys them. I won't let my younger children touch them. When they're older and I'm sure they have a deeper understanding of who Christ is and what freedom in Christ means, then they can read them, too.

[TKDmom]

I love these books, and I have loved the movies, but I voted to hold off on them. I don't see the magic as problematic, but the books do turn darker after the first 3. My dd(9) is fairly sensitive, so I'm going to wait a couple more years before introducing them. And the movies will have to wait even longer. The visuals and music can make movies so much scarier than what you would imagine when reading the same book.

 

If my dd were dying to read them, I might let her read the first 1 or 2 books now. But she's not asking, and I don't want her reading the later books until she's a little older, so I'll hold off on them altogether.

[Nestof3]

I had always heard that Christians shouldn't read them, so my kids never read them. I checked the first book out from the library the other day to read for myself.

 

While I think iron sharpens iron, I also want to form my own opinions about things based on my research and experience. I do not want to go along with something just to please the crowd.

 

I have not started reading it yet as I am in the middle of a novel right now.

 

My son is listening to Inkspell right now after listening to Inkheart. He has read The Hobbit, the Lord of the Rings, all of L. Frank Baum's books he could get his hands on, all of the Magic Tree House series, etc. He recently asked if he could read Harry Potter. We had never let our eldest read them. Ben has also shown interest in the HP Legos. I decided it was about time I figure out where I stand on them.

[lionfamily1999]

I'm starting to see that focusing on worldly things can only help my kids become more worldly. Why give them a "hero" that is not Godly, when there are so many Godly ones to turn to? Why read such huge books which are not concerned with my children's spiritual well being, when there are so many authors that are? Why take away from our time to focus on heavenly things, when there are infinite heavenly things to focus on?

 

Basically, I'm not saying HP is going to turn your child into a raving demonic beast. I am saying, it will not contribute to them growing up to be Godly.

[HappyGrace]

We stay away. I had a fascination with and read similar type books (kids being witches, etc) when I was young and I truly believe it opened my spirit to occult forces. Nothing overt or creepy, but it was a separation from sensitivity to God and HIS power, etc., that lasted for many years.

[Whereneverever]

I don't really see it as much different then the Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, or Fairy Tales. My DD1 has read the first two and is currently reading her way through the Narnia books.

 

Harry Potter didn't make her want to be a wizard anymore then the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe made her think that there is another world lurking behind coats. ;) She knows that they both are pretend and just enjoys reading it.

[laughing lioness]

We allow magic, fairy tales, myths, (Lewis, Tolkien, L'Engle to name a few) etc. but haven't, and won't, read HP. The writing is good. But the redemption is where? Same reason we'll let the 10 yo read Lord of the Rings but not watch the movies- the movies skip the redemptive aspect of the books and focus on visual grossness- not something I want to fill young and impressionable minds with. Same reason we are careful about letting our kids watch or read, other, more mature books. Elie Wiesel-not on the list till h.s. But Ten Boom and others are. WWII existed, for sure, but I want my younger kids to understand God's love firmly before we introduce despair and seperation from God.

HP is all about personal power rather than God's, denigrating those who don't embrace personal power (Wiggins). As a follower of Christ I hope to teach my children God's power and humility rather than elitism and "getting theirs."

I want my kids to be past concrete operations before we introduce that people choose self focus, even when that means harm to themselves and others.

Edited December 10, 2010 by laughing lioness
added

[specialmama]

Now that ds is 13yo and an avid reader with discernment and a solid foundation of his personal faith, I let him read them all this year. Before that, b/c he was impressionable, no way. So, I'd say there isn't a magic age, but a level of maturity.

:iagree: That is exactly what we're doing. My dd is not yet mature enough at 11. She has a strong faith in the Lord, but she's very impressionable still.

 

When my oldest was in 3rd grade and it was all the rage for teachers to read this to kids at school I adamantly refused to let my daughter be part of it.

 

Then she grew up. She's got a solid foundation and reads the books/watches the movies. No problems on my end.

 

In our family we make 'em wait:)

Good for you! I don't want to follow the crowd! Our family makes 'em wait too! Saving some stuff for when they're older.

 

Strider, I hear you, but wanted to add: many people do not expose their young dc to Harry Potter b/c HE is the source of HIS power and this is contrary to Christ being the center of a Christian's strength. Others believe the series glorifies witchcraft enough that their child may take lightly the differences between witchcraft culture and Christian culture, encouraging complacency in their own faith and a hyper-interest in witchcraft, i.e. a seed planted. Also, because HP is fighting against evil, many children would be very frightened b/c they are sensitive to things of this nature (Hell hounds, rising from the dead, the power of words (spells)). I believe these are all valid concerns...concerns that can be dealt with as maturity allows, but still valid concerns.

 

To each his own. Like I said, my older, mature kiddo, who asked and showed interest owns the series (I buy them for him at the Friends of the Library books store for dirt cheap) and enjoys them. I won't let my younger children touch them. When they're older and I'm sure they have a deeper understanding of who Christ is and what freedom in Christ means, then they can read them, too.

Tina, thank you, the bolded part is *exactly* my stand on it.

 

I'm starting to see that focusing on worldly things can only help my kids become more worldly. Why give them a "hero" that is not Godly, when there are so many Godly ones to turn to? Why read such huge books which are not concerned with my children's spiritual well being, when there are so many authors that are? Why take away from our time to focus on heavenly things, when there are infinite heavenly things to focus on?

 

Basically, I'm not saying HP is going to turn your child into a raving demonic beast. I am saying, it will not contribute to them growing up to be Godly.

AMEN!

We allow magic, fairy tales, myths, (Lewis, Tolkien, L'Engle to name a few) etc. but haven't, and won't, read HP. The writing is good. But the redemption is where?

Yup.

[SailorMom]

I really think they have some wonderful lessons in them about love, friendship, making choices, and the difference between good and evil.

 

I have not read this, but a VERY conservative Christian friend of mine recommended Finding God in Harry Potter by John Granger.

 

ETA: Just noticed the title of the thread - I will add that I am not a Conservative Christian. However, I am quite surrounded by them, have talked to them a lot about Harry Potter, and have heard many differring opinions.

Edited December 10, 2010 by SailorMom

[cbollin]

I'm not ultra radical "conservative", but still conservative.

 

My oldest (currently 15) read them the summer she was 14. DH read them the same time. Before that, she wasn't all that interested and neither were we. They loved the discussion and adventure.

She enjoyed it and even said that she probably wouldn't have liked them much younger even though she liked Redwall series and LOTR. She even ended up writing an argumentative essay supporting the position that it is ok for Christian HIGH school age children to read the series. :lol:

 

-crystal

[Debbie in OR]

Now that ds is 13yo and an avid reader with discernment and a solid foundation of his personal faith, I let him read them all this year. Before that, b/c he was impressionable, no way. So, I'd say there isn't a magic age, but a level of maturity.

 

 

This is how we are going to approach them. We've told the kids they can read them when they are at a point, maturity-wise, that they have enough discernment to maneuver them.

 

DS is close...probably in the next year or two. DD still has a ways to go.

[cbollin]

Basically, I'm not saying HP is going to turn your child into a raving demonic beast. I am saying, it will not contribute to them growing up to be Godly.

 

I just showed that to my oldest, and her take was a little different. She said that seeing how things weren't always as they appear and that people don't always act properly just reinforced the need for discernment in friends and to surround oneself with peers and role models who Do the Right Thing and keep each other doing the right things.

 

But then again, she's at the rhetoric level reading the books and doesn't think I should let her younger sister read them yet.

 

-crystal

[Miss Marple]

We avoided them when the boys were younger. They had many friends who read the books, but all the hype from both ends of the spectrum turned us off. The boys wanted to read them in order to see what all the fuss was about, but we just avoided them and substitute plenty of other good reading. My explanation at that time to them was, "There are so many good quality literature books we need to read, we just can't fit those in right now".

 

When we went to London years later HP was the in-flight movie. So the boys watched it. I was OK with that and they seemed to get over the desire to read the books. I think much of their desire stemmed from wanting to be in the mainstream. They felt like aliens when someone would ask if they had read the books. HP isn't really the genre any of them enjoys. They just wanted to be part of the crowd.

 

I think they were able to view the movie with a bit more maturity and realize that just because HP was the fad, they didn't need to read the books/watch the movies. We do have some Christian homeschool friends who are huge HP fans...

[Peri]

My ds9 has been playing with a ps girl (also age 9) who is also a Christian. This girl has been allowed to read all the HP books, including the last one and has seen all the movies. She tells ds all about the books and he is becoming interested in them.

 

We are not anti-magic--we do read fairly tales, Lord of the Rings (ds9 is reading The Hobbit right now), etc. I just don't know if I should allow the HP series to become a dominant factor in my son's mind by encouraging him to read the books. More importantly, how does this affect him spiritually? What do you think?

 

If you do allow your ds to read about fantasy and magic, as I do, then you should let him read the HP books. It is not like pulp fiction and they really are well written. I enjoyed reading them more than my dd lol. Alot of people are against them because they are about majic but it really is more about the power of good and love over the power of evil. It seems to me that it isn't that much different than The Chronicles of narnia in that sense. But really do let your son read them.

[johnandtinagilbert]

I'm starting to see that focusing on worldly things can only help my kids become more worldly. Why give them a "hero" that is not Godly, when there are so many Godly ones to turn to? Why read such huge books which are not concerned with my children's spiritual well being, when there are so many authors that are? Why take away from our time to focus on heavenly things, when there are infinite heavenly things to focus on?

 

Basically, I'm not saying HP is going to turn your child into a raving demonic beast. I am saying, it will not contribute to them growing up to be Godly.

I must agree. After a few years of relaxing our conservative standard in a few areas, I see the difference in our children and I'm finding myself repairing damage. It's a difficult balance to parent towards Godliness and still take our faith and apply it in a practical manner. Even though my ds13 enjoys the books, ds15 has no desire to read them. It's not his cup of tea.

 

I really think they have some wonderful lessons in them about love, friendship, making choices, and the difference between good and evil.

 

I have not read this, but a VERY conservative Christian friend of mine recommended Finding God in Harry Potter by John Granger.

 

ETA: Just noticed the title of the thread - I will add that I am not a Conservative Christian. However, I am quite surrounded by them, have talked to them a lot about Harry Potter, and have heard many differring opinions.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose. Romans 8:28....God can use Harry Potter to teach a lesson, He can also use other sources (without the witchcraft) to teach those same lessons. The point is He can use ANYthing to show what is good and right.

 

We allow magic, fairy tales, myths, (Lewis, Tolkien, L'Engle to name a few) etc. but haven't, and won't, read HP. The writing is good. But the redemption is where? Same reason we'll let the 10 yo read Lord of the Rings but not watch the movies- the movies skip the redemptive aspect of the books and focus on visual grossness- not something I want to fill young and impressionable minds with. Same reason we are careful about letting our kids watch or read, other, more mature books. Elie Wiesel-not on the list till h.s. But Ten Boom and others are. WWII existed, for sure, but I want my younger kids to understand God's love firmly before we introduce despair and seperation from God.

HP is all about personal power rather than God's, denigrating those who don't embrace personal power (Wiggins). As a follower of Christ I hope to teach my children God's power and humility rather than elitism and "getting theirs."

I want my kids to be past concrete operations before we introduce that people choose self focus, even when that means harm to themselves and others.

Nice post (even though my son who is past concrete operations has read them). We're careful to discuss, discuss, discuss. Another reason to love being a classical educator...your dc get pretty darn good at discussions!

[Kate in VA]

Harry Potter is in fact, highly moral and ethical throughout the books. There are many wonderful life lessons in the books, lessons that can even bring the reader to a better understanding of Christ's sacrifice. I have a high opinion of these books and the skill with which they are written.

 

:iagree: I am also a christian and am truly fed up with all the Anti-HP junk...(not pointing fingers just mentioning this is general) Please read the books for yourself and see .....they are great..

Believe it or not Harry Potter gave me the love of reading at the age of 23! Yes you heard me right... I hated reading up until then...

My dd is now 10 she has read all the books many times each and has seen each movie.... (I would not let her normally see a film that was that "dark" however because she had read the books they aren't as scary to her....)

We are generally very strict in what she reads and watches.... (I believe that these are the only PG-13 movies she has been allowed to see... it has been only recently that we have allowed her to watch PG movies :tongue_smilie:)

My dd is crazy about them and I am glad she has good taste!:D

Please read them and enjoy them for yourself!

my 2 cents

[MelissaMinNC]

My dd is 9. I let her read one book per year; she has read or listened to the first 3. She likes them, but they have not taken over as her only book or movie of choice. We read them together, or listen to the audio together. She can read them on her own, but I prefer us to read them together so we can talk about them - as much because I am a fan of them as for any other reason.

 

I have read them all and seen all the movies. Knowing my daughter as I do, I don't want her engaging in books 4 and beyond yet. They get dark, and there's a bit more "teen romance" than I want her drooling over just yet.

 

:)

Melissa

[Peri]

I am an evangelical Christian with somewhat conservative theology. I teach Bible study skills seminars, direct children's programs, and have lived/worked as an unofficial inner city missionary for many years (unofficial because I am not financially supported or designated as a formal missionary, but by choice do live and volunteer extensively in an impoverished, crime-ridden, African-American neighborhood in the city). I also have a degree in English and Rhetoric and teach literature classes at the high school level to home school co-ops.

 

In the Bible, the witch craft that is warned against is specifically interacting with demons in order to cause things to happen (telling the future or healing or other).

 

Harry Potter never interacts with demons. There is no character in the series that does, ever.

 

Harry Potter's magical powers are more like superpowers, like Superman's or Wonder Woman's. If JK Rowling had applied a different vocabulary (not used the words "witch" or "wizard") then there would be NO biblical issues. However, as this is fantasy fiction, set in a clearly fictional world, the author can use whatever vocabulary she chooses and apply a meaning that is specific to HER created world. This is a normal element of fantasy fiction in general.

 

Harry Potter's powers bear NO resemblance in any fashion to any form of witchcraft in the real world (either in terms of demonic interaction or in terms of pagan worship), and it is impossible to replicate anything he does in real life because none of us in the real world have super powers.

 

Harry Potter is in fact, highly moral and ethical throughout the books. There are many wonderful life lessons in the books, lessons that can even bring the reader to a better understanding of Christ's sacrifice. I have a high opinion of these books and the skill with which they are written.

 

You said it beautifully!

[dcjlkplus3]

We are conservative Christians and we have all read and/or listened to all the books at our house and own the first 6 movies. The way my husband and I see it is they are fiction. The people in the stories are either born magical or they are not, the characters who are not magical can't learn magic. It is a device of the story, much the same way that the treehouse in Magic Tree House books are a device of the story. We enjoy the characters and find the story to be well written and compelling. My oldest likes to play play hogwarts and try to fit her subjects up with the ones they have there, she likes to use a pencil as a magic wand and cast "spells" that she knows are only pretend - she doesn't think anything will actually happen.

[KathyBC]

We allow magic, fairy tales, myths, (Lewis, Tolkien, L'Engle to name a few) etc. but haven't, and won't, read HP. The writing is good. But the redemption is where? Same reason we'll let the 10 yo read Lord of the Rings but not watch the movies- the movies skip the redemptive aspect of the books and focus on visual grossness- not something I want to fill young and impressionable minds with. Same reason we are careful about letting our kids watch or read, other, more mature books. Elie Wiesel-not on the list till h.s. But Ten Boom and others are. WWII existed, for sure, but I want my younger kids to understand God's love firmly before we introduce despair and seperation from God.

HP is all about personal power rather than God's, denigrating those who don't embrace personal power (Wiggins). As a follower of Christ I hope to teach my children God's power and humility rather than elitism and "getting theirs."

I want my kids to be past concrete operations before we introduce that people choose self focus, even when that means harm to themselves and others.

 

If there is a claim that HP is about self-focus with no redemptive aspect then the entire series has not been read. The final book ties up the entire series with a theme of self-sacrifice for the redemption of others.

[mama27]

My ds9 has been playing with a ps girl (also age 9) who is also a Christian. This girl has been allowed to read all the HP books, including the last one and has seen all the movies. She tells ds all about the books and he is becoming interested in them.

 

We are not anti-magic--we do read fairly tales, Lord of the Rings (ds9 is reading The Hobbit right now), etc. I just don't know if I should allow the HP series to become a dominant factor in my son's mind by encouraging him to read the books. More importantly, how does this affect him spiritually? What do you think?

 

 

I would say it depends on the spiritual maturity of the child. If a child is easily influenced by anything that does not line up with our beliefs we try our best to keep it away from our children.

OTH, if we never expose our children to things at home where we can teach them why these things are wrong then someone else may influence them in a way we don't like.

Our kids have watched the movies, one has read the books. No one has tried practicing witchcraft noit even in pretend play.

[Outdoorsy Type]

I consider myself a conservative Christian. I agree with those who say read it yourself and see what you think. I have read books 1-3 out loud to the boys and we watch the movies afterwards. We discuss real versus pretend, and it hasn't been a problem for them.

 

A lot of people do have a problem with HP after reading the book themselves, and that is okay. You have to figure out what works for you and your own family.

[mama27]

I always think it's strange that Christians would allow their kids to watch the LOTR but not HP when LOTR is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay scarier, way more demonic and has way more magic in it.

[johnandtinagilbert]

 

I always think it's strange that Christians would allow their kids to watch the LOTR but not HP when LOTR is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay scarier, way more demonic and has way more magic in it.

LOTR books offer a different perspective that the movies....and we don't allow the movies, either ;0) Again, maturity thing for our house.

[mama27]

LOTR books offer a different perspective that the movies....and we don't allow the movies, either ;0) Again, maturity thing for our house.

 

Where we lived before, in a small town, most of the Christians would be completely shocked if we even spoke of "HP" but LOTR was great and wonderful and fine.

I understand that there is a different perspective but spells are spells to a kid.

Magic is still magic.

For US saying LOTR is ok but HP is not was hypocritical.

[Jilly]

If there is a claim that HP is about self-focus with no redemptive aspect then the entire series has not been read. The final book ties up the entire series with a theme of self-sacrifice for the redemption of others.

 

:iagree:

[Hen]

we are pretty conservative, we didn't have a t.v. for about 4 or 5 years at one point, my kids never have watched the Disney channel- I don't like the attitudes the kids have.

 

I kept my kids away from the HP books, but dh and I started reading them out of curiosity, our babysitters loved them. I wasn't sure what the right thing to do was, so I kept them away until we could decide.

 

well, during one of the movies, which dh and I went to see, Harry was struggling with angry feelings and worrying he was like the evil guy. Dumbledoore said something like, (Paraphrase) "We all have good and evil inside us, but it's what your spirit inside you chooses to embrace"..something like that- and I thought "oh wow, how can I not let my kids see these?"

 

The HP books are brimming with different wonderful themes, among them- good and evil is not black and white. Sometimes good people do bad things, and sometimes bad people do noble/kind/redeeming themes. -The greatest power is love. The greatness is laying down your life for your friends. There are things that will break your soul. Nations can do evil things and take away freedom- such as WWII, the parallels in her last book were really thought provoking and instructive.

 

the magic thing- well, the whole world she created is make believe- yes there is witchcraft in real life, and the Bible warns against it- but it is nothing like the HP world, where you are born magical, where you can do magical things. If she had called them fairies or elves instead of witches, there wouldn't be such a problem...

 

some Christians avoid any kind of fiction and any kind of magic...that is one thing, but I think to label HP bad but embrace C.S. Lewis and Tolkien is kind of illogical.

 

just my thoughts, I just wanted you to know that I had reservations, but changed my mind. I love how my kids are engaging with the books.

[cbollin]

I'm starting to see that focusing on worldly things can only help my kids become more worldly. Why give them a "hero" that is not Godly, when there are so many Godly ones to turn to? Why read such huge books which are not concerned with my children's spiritual well being, when there are so many authors that are? Why take away from our time to focus on heavenly things, when there are infinite heavenly things to focus on?

 

agreeing that if they only read books that aren't the same values that we have, that would be unfruitful in the long run.

 

That's why we spent so many years doing read alouds with missions and character in the curriculum we use.

 

that way HP books have a small place in our lives and could be enjoyed without fear. But each to their own. There's a zillion books out there and no one has to read all of them in their lifetime.

 

p.s. book 7 according to my dh and dd is where you found all about sacrifice and redemption. wow. I havent' read the books, my dd and dh did. they just told me the ending. wow. glad she was old enough to get the whole picture on it. cool.

 

-crystal

[Caitilin]

We are conservative Christians and we have all read and/or listened to all the books at our house and own the first 6 movies. The way my husband and I see it is they are fiction. The people in the stories are either born magical or they are not, the characters who are not magical can't learn magic. It is a device of the story, much the same way that the treehouse in Magic Tree House books are a device of the story. We enjoy the characters and find the story to be well written and compelling. My oldest likes to play play hogwarts and try to fit her subjects up with the ones they have there, she likes to use a pencil as a magic wand and cast "spells" that she knows are only pretend - she doesn't think anything will actually happen.

 

The bolded is the crucial thing to consider in these discussions--nothing that the magical people are able to do is because they have "learned" it--it's an innate ability that they possess, comparable to being "mathy" or having a linguistic facility. They can't change it any more than they can change their eye color, or other attributes.

 

We allow magic, fairy tales, myths, (Lewis, Tolkien, L'Engle to name a few) etc. but haven't, and won't, read HP. The writing is good. But the redemption is where? Same reason we'll let the 10 yo read Lord of the Rings but not watch the movies- the movies skip the redemptive aspect of the books and focus on visual grossness- not something I want to fill young and impressionable minds with. Same reason we are careful about letting our kids watch or read, other, more mature books. Elie Wiesel-not on the list till h.s. But Ten Boom and others are. WWII existed, for sure, but I want my younger kids to understand God's love firmly before we introduce despair and seperation from God.

HP is all about personal power rather than God's, denigrating those who don't embrace personal power: Wiggins--I assume here you mean either Muggles (ordinary non-magical people) or Squibs (those with magical heritage who do not possess magical ability)--in neither case do the good characters ever denigrate the non-magical. The "personal power trip" people are UNIVERSALLY the bad guys. Also, even within the magical community, there are people with different gifts--some excel in some areas and bomb in others--just as in real life. As a follower of Christ I hope to teach my children God's power and humility rather than elitism and "getting theirs." HP is not about elitism--elitism is actually one of the evils that the "bad guys" promote! The magical abilities which the magical people possess are analogous to having gifted children--they don't choose to be that way, they simply ARE. Humility is one of the things that makes the good guys good--they KNOW they're no better than the non-magical or other beings (centaurs, goblins, etc).

I want my kids to be past concrete operations before we introduce that people choose self focus, even when that means harm to themselves and others.

The message the books send, consistently, is that love for others is the most important action we can take, and that self-sacrificing love is the greatest. This is a message I can TOTALLY get behind for my kids. :)

[KathyBC]

"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."

~Rowling

[Daisy]

In our family, we've chosen to wait until they are older. Mostly because beyond book 4 the plot gets rather dark.

 

I don't have a huge problem with them. I don't see them as leading to all things occult. Guidelines for our family have basically been....

 

1. Old enough to clearly distinguish between fantasy and reality.

2. Old enough to understand some people's objections to the books and able to carry on a mature discussion about it (in other words logic level in our house).

3. Old enough to handle the darkness of the later stories.

 

And really this has been our guidelines for many books, not just the HP ones.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Daisy

[Abigail4476]

As a very conservative Christian, I can tell you that reading HP books and watching the movies hasn't resulted in us having little witches and warlocks running around the house. Our kids are able to separate fact from fiction.

 

I remember as a kid, growing up in a pastor's home, I read all kinds of fairy tales filled with magic. I also poured over books on Greek mythology, finding the subject very fascinating. It never occurred to me that I needed to pursue a different venue of spirituality because other people in these books approached deity in a different manner from us.

 

And don't forget: many, many Disney cartoons have magic in them, and are routinely viewed by a much younger, more impressionable audience.

 

If your children are easily influenced, and try to copy things they read in books or see in movies, you might have an issue--but it's one that needs to be addressed. At some point, as a part of a maturing mind, children should be able to distinguish between what is true and what is not. They should understand stories that are allegorical in nature, and should be able to glean the underlying meaning from a text and not just recite back the black & white story line.

[Brenda in FL]

My ds9 has been playing with a ps girl (also age 9) who is also a Christian. This girl has been allowed to read all the HP books, including the last one and has seen all the movies. She tells ds all about the books and he is becoming interested in them.

 

We are not anti-magic--we do read fairly tales, Lord of the Rings (ds9 is reading The Hobbit right now), etc. I just don't know if I should allow the HP series to become a dominant factor in my son's mind by encouraging him to read the books. More importantly, how does this affect him spiritually? What do you think?

 

I've allowed my children to read them at a slowly progressing pace and after I have pre-read them. My 12 year old has read up through book 4. My 10 year old has read through book 3 - I've been somewhat reluctant to let her start the fourth yet. All including the 7 year old have watched the first three movies. We'll probably hold off now for a while on the movies.

 

The issues for our family has been that the kids don't usually turn to or trust adults when they find themselves in a difficult situation - but this is true of most children's stories - isn't it? And as the characters age, their behaviors, actions, attitudes mature as well - I don't really think its necessary for my 9 year old to be reading about teen-agers and their issues when there is plenty of childhood literature still to be read!!

 

Plus - the stories do seem to get darker as the series progress.

 

The magic, witchcraft/wizardry, etc. does not really bother me (so far - I've only read through book 4). Personally, the potential spiritual impact of the Percy Jackson stories concern me much more - but that's a different thread!!

 

You should read the books yourself to see how you think it might impact your son spiritually. There really is no reference to God/Christianity in the books I've read. They have Christmas, but its just the basic cultural celebration you see in the world today. There is no worship of any deity or an outright rejection of God - in fact God is just absent from the stories. However, anyone can argue that the absence of God is a spiritual impact in itself - but then you'd have to throw away much of Children's literature with that argument!

[Harriet Vane]

If there is a claim that HP is about self-focus with no redemptive aspect then the entire series has not been read. The final book ties up the entire series with a theme of self-sacrifice for the redemption of others.

 

:iagree: Well said. Self-sacrifice and love are depicted skillfully and powerfully in book seven, and are a theme throughout the six books leading up to it as well.

 

I'll add that the idea from another post that the book promotes personal power and denigrates those who do not embrace personal power is false, in my opinion. In fact, through the characters of Dumbledore and Snape, as well as the Ministry of Magic, there is a strong lesson that power corrupts, that unfettered power can cause people to make dangerous moral compromises.

 

The characters are born with super powers. The book is NOT about the power of those powers, but rather about their choices in using their powers. A good parallel for us non-magical people who live here in the real world is the idea that we should use our skills and abilities to do what is right in all circumstances.

[Harriet Vane]

In our family, we've chosen to wait until they are older. Mostly because beyond book 4 the plot gets rather dark.

 

I don't have a huge problem with them. I don't see them as leading to all thing occult. Guidelines for our family have basically been....

 

1. Old enough to clearly distinguish between fantasy and reality.

2. Old enough to understand some people's objections to the books and able to carry on a mature discussion about it (in other words logic level in our house).

3. Old enough to handle the darkness of the later stories.

 

And really this has been our guidelines for many books, not just the HP ones.

 

Well said, Daisy. These guidelines are good not specifically for HP but for all of literature.

 

In response to some other posts in this thread, saying that the books require a more mature reader is NOT the same as saying they are occult or unbiblical. There are many, many non-fantasy books about which one could say the same thing. The OPs question had to do with occult content and negative spiritual effect.

[Harriet Vane]

"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."

~Rowling

 

I LOVE THIS QUOTE!!! I remember when I read this for the first time how electrifying this lesson was for me personally. Frankly, I was delighted to find a children's book that put across such a lesson so well.

[Sheila in OK]

I agree. We stayed away from them for years because of all the 'hype' but summer before last, dd really wanted to read them. We decided that dh would read them with her (not aloud, but staying about half a book ahead of her) so we could see for ourselves (all the for-against websites just confused me even more). Well, they both ended up LOVING the series, and like others have said, I don't see that they've impacted her negatively at all.

 

OTOH, ds10 has only read the first three and I think he will be waiting a bit before going on. I am even reading them for myself now (and fantasy is NOT my genre) because dh and dd love discussing them and I feel left out! ;) I am on book 4 and am surprisingly really enjoying the series.

 

Well said, Daisy. These guidelines are good not specifically for HP but for all of literature.

 

In response to some other posts in this thread, saying that the books require a more mature reader is NOT the same as saying they are occult or unbiblical. There are many, many non-fantasy books about which one could say the same thing. The OPs question had to do with occult content and negative spiritual effect.

[lionfamily1999]

I don't really see it as much different then the Chronicles of Narnia, Lord of the Rings, or Fairy Tales. My DD1 has read the first two and is currently reading her way through the Narnia books.

 

Harry Potter didn't make her want to be a wizard anymore then the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe made her think that there is another world lurking behind coats. ;) She knows that they both are pretend and just enjoys reading it.

In the case of TCoN (and I believe LotR as well, but am not sure) it was written with a Christian perspective as an attempt to make Christ more attainable and understandable to younger audiences. Intent does, imo, matter.

I just showed that to my oldest, and her take was a little different. She said that seeing how things weren't always as they appear and that people don't always act properly just reinforced the need for discernment in friends and to surround oneself with peers and role models who Do the Right Thing and keep each other doing the right things.

 

But then again, she's at the rhetoric level reading the books and doesn't think I should let her younger sister read them yet.

 

-crystal

I know you can take those lessons from Harry Potter (and a ton of other secular places), but they are not grounded in Christ. That is my issue. The world has its own wisdom, but I'm in a place where I believe my children are better served by getting the bulk of their wisdom from God and righteous sources.

 

I'm changing my view of "spare the rod" as well. A rod, in my meagre research ;), was used by shepherds, not to beat their sheep into submission, but to beat off predators. From that view, sparing the rod would mean to relax my vigilance, to allow predators to get to my children. Spare the rod, relax and let whatever in, and spoil your child. I'm upping my standards. Rawlings, while a great author, is not coming to my children with a message from Christianity. I found her acceptable in the past, but have decided that she should have been kept out and out she goes.

 

agreeing that if they only read books that aren't the same values that we have, that would be unfruitful in the long run.

 

That's why we spent so many years doing read alouds with missions and character in the curriculum we use.

 

that way HP books have a small place in our lives and could be enjoyed without fear. But each to their own. There's a zillion books out there and no one has to read all of them in their lifetime.

 

p.s. book 7 according to my dh and dd is where you found all about sacrifice and redemption. wow. I havent' read the books, my dd and dh did. they just told me the ending. wow. glad she was old enough to get the whole picture on it. cool.

 

-crystal

Go where you're led :) That is not the direction that I'm being led now.

[silliness7]

My ds9 has been playing with a ps girl (also age 9) who is also a Christian. This girl has been allowed to read all the HP books, including the last one and has seen all the movies. She tells ds all about the books and he is becoming interested in them.

 

We are not anti-magic--we do read fairly tales, Lord of the Rings (ds9 is reading The Hobbit right now), etc. I just don't know if I should allow the HP series to become a dominant factor in my son's mind by encouraging him to read the books. More importantly, how does this affect him spiritually? What do you think?

 

I lifted the ban on Harry Potter 2 summers ago. We are not anti-magic either, reading fairy tales and LOTR, Narnia, etc. But I was a little worried about all of the negative press from other Christians and I didn't have time to investigate it for myself so we just didn't touch it. I figured there was plenty of good reading to last a lifetime and if it was bad we were better off and if it was fine we wouldn't know what we were missing.

 

Then I got a job at a library. It must have been when book #7 was just coming out or when a new movie was being released? I don't really know. All I know was that it was the hottest thing going and one day I took #1 home and started reading it outloud to my kids. I don't really know why. Peer pressure. :001_smile:

 

Now my kids have read all of the books, some of my kids have read them 20 times. We've watched the movies a gazillion times and own them all and all the books. We are Harry Potter fanatics. I myself have read #1 and #7. There are very rich themes of love and sacrifice and redemption. Good triumphs over evil. This is good stuff and worthy to read and to talk about. My children haven't desired to practice magic as is cautioned. However, one of my children did grab a library book that was a spin-off of HP which, imo, was occult. I explained to him the problem with the book and he put it back. So I do monitor the other books they want to read which try to tie into HP. But that minor negative truly pales in how much we have gained from HP. The only thing that I think is "weird" is that HP has Christmas holidays and I think I heard mention of Easter? Why are they celebrating Christmas when there is no underlying belief or assumption of belief in Christ? I did mention it to my children. I just want to exercise their thinking skills in drawing attention to these kinds of things. I prefer to think of HP as happening in an alternate universe like Narnia and the holiday thing bugs me a bit but not enough, obviously. :001_smile: We are hard core fans.