S/ O--Curious: what is wrong with designer dogs?

[Jean in Newcastle]

The AKC breeds were bred from different breeds in the past to get certain characteristics, right? What makes that different than breeding two different breeds now to get certain characteristics? I understand about needing a breed standard, but what if they come up with one and stay true to that?

[tex-mex]

The AKC breeds were bred from different breeds in the past to get certain characteristics, right? What makes that different than breeding two different breeds now to get certain characteristics? I understand about needing a breed standard, but what if they come up with one and stay true to that?

Good point.

 

This is one of the to-dos with the Australian Labradoodles. Where the "breed" officially began with the man who worked for a place in Victoria and bred his Lab & Poodle for the woman in Hawaii who was blind and needed a guide dog -- but her husband was severely allergic. Now, the Aussies want AKC to officially recognize their specific breed. I have to argue they may be right -- as their bloodlines have been carefully recorded. Aussie LDs can come with papers -- but not AKC recognized. The UK LD breeders have papers too -- but not AKC recognized. The genetic flaw in this is the huge population of MULTIGEN LD with eye and kidney problems as a result of guarded "breeding" down under. In the states, you don't see this.

 

If it helps, my cat (Ragdoll) is a newer purebred and recognized by the TICA. But it took close to 20+ years for the breed to get recognition. I can see the Aussies getting AKC's approval -- but it may take a few more years. Wait for more fraudulent Labradoodle breeders to tweak them into preserving the "breed". ;)

Edited December 6, 2010 by tex-mex

[Bird Girl]

OMG I am dying--- yes, ain't that the truth! Pockets full of liver (or worse!) poop bags in another pocket, feet that feel like you've walked a million miles before breakfast and exhausted circles under your eyes from listening to your dog pant all. night. long. because the AC isn't working in the cheesy (but cheap and dog-friendly!) Motel 6. Plus it's all you can afford, since you've paid entry fees, the expensive repro vet, your regular vet for OFA x-rays, cardiac and thyroid panels, a cardiologist for heart clearances, a canine opthamologist for the CERF testing, had PennHip readings done just in case, and now you're out chasing points and watching the males in the ring, looking for EXACTLY the right combination of temperament, type and clean genetics to MAYBE try for a litter.

 

Sigh. It's the life we love, though. :001_smile:

 

astrid

 

This is why I adore my breeder. Well, that and the fact that I don't know enough about corgis not to make a huge mess of things. It's why a well-bred dog is so cheap, compared to, say, a poorly bred dog, which can cost the same, or even more!

 

The reason that first generation lab/poodle crosses are more uniformly "hypoallergenic" (no dog can be 100% so, but more than most) is because they are essentially a hybrid for fur and dander traits. Like hybrid tomatoes that won't come true from seed, if you breed crosses to crosses, the second generation will come out in a mix; some poodle-y, some lab-y, some more like the parents. And there's no way to predict how many pups will show which traits. This is the main difficulty with registering "labradoodles" as a breed--they can't be bred to a standard, because they are so heterozygous for so many traits.

 

Also, labs and poodles, as breeds, are unfortunately saddled with a lot of health issues. Poodles can be prone to seizures, thyroid conditions, collapsing tracheas, bleeding disorders and more. Labs have a lot of issues with hip and elbow dysplasia, other bone diseases, epilepsy, and heart problems. They can and do pass these disorders down to their mixed-breed puppies--a mixed breed dog is only as healthy as its parents' genomes allow it to be. So breeding any random lab to a random poodle could give you a labradoodle with a collapsing trachea, crippling hip dysplasia, and a bad heart. If the breeder in question is carefully showing his or her dogs, doing health tests (not "vet checks") on them, and following their pedigrees for signs of health issues, then they will undoubtedly be able to sell as many lab puppies or poodle puppies as they care to produce, and will not necessarily want to produce mixes. However, there may be breeders who do these things, like those producing dogs for assistance centers, and who have "washout" puppies available to the pet-owning public.

 

Bottom line; if your breeder, of any breed or designer "breed," will not take the dog back at any time in its life, allows you to maintain the dog intact (unneutered) and produce puppies on your own without his or her advice and consultation, and can't tell you more about your dog, his or her breed, and his or her family lines than you can think to ask about, then you're buying from a backyard breeder or a puppymill, and you should think again.

[tex-mex]

Bottom line; if your breeder, of any breed or designer "breed," will not take the dog back at any time in its life, allows you to maintain the dog intact (unneutered) and produce puppies on your own without his or her advice and consultation, and can't tell you more about your dog, his or her breed, and his or her family lines than you can think to ask about, then you're buying from a backyard breeder or a puppymill, and you should think again.

 

:iagree: Both our purebreds came with a detailed contract listing the same rules. Part of the contract required we spay/neuter our pet OR pay a huge $$$ fee to allow us to "breed" it. The breeders were wonderful people and very helpful.

[snipsnsnailsx5]

I don't get it...designer dogs are just mutts? That's what they used to be called at least. However now, to make money off of them, people breed two favorable/desirable breeds, make up a cute mash-up of the breed names and charge $500. LOL!

[kalanamak]

I don't get it...designer dogs are just mutts? That's what they used to be called at least. However now, to make money off of them, people breed two favorable/desirable breeds, make up a cute mash-up of the breed names and charge $500. LOL!

 

Well, how about a comparison to horses. I have no idea how people do it now, but 30+ years ago, when I rode a lot, people were crossing draft horses and Arabians for a stout trail horse that was more rideable than a pure draft horse. I rode a half Quarter Horse and half Thoroughbred as a cross country version of "hunter over fences", and my instructor purposefully looked for that combo, so she told me, as a good horse for such in our terrain.

 

A "cross" is not the same as a mutt. If a person has a dog that, if covered by a fancy dog of the same breed, would get X amount per puppy, wastes her girl-dogs short reproductive years on cross breeds, it would not make financial sense. If the market wants a half Dane, half Gr. Shepard (I saw one once and it looked like a griffen :)), the market will either have to wait for the rare mistake, or pay someone willing to take their purebred away from bearing other purebreds.

 

That a craze in pet owning has led to nefarious breeders, puppymills, and badness for dogs is no surprise, unfortunately. I remember what "Lassie" did for collies, and Rin Tin Tin did to German Sheps. I'm glad to say, 50 years later, the dogs I see of those breeds look better than the results of the breeding craze caused by the sudden popularity of those animals.

[asta]

I've only known 5, two Labradoodles, who were nice dogs, and two puggles, which seemed fairly Puggy, except they had more healthy nasal anatomy. The 5th was my adopted G. Shepard/Ridgeback, and she was a really superior dog, once she had some training

 

Pretty much any dog is a superior dog once they have some training. I've never understood why people don't have their dogs trained. Or spend the amount of time necessary to train them properly themselves. It does the dog a tremendous disservice and can get them killed.

 

Not only that. Some people think their fancy mutts are actually real breeds. Of course, it's their bad for not investigating a little more, but I also think people who purposely mix two different breeds, which results in mutts (regardless of how cute and wonderful they are--"mutt" is not a bad word), and then sell the pups for pure-bred prices are dishonest and deceptive.

 

::puts on the Xena Warrior Princess flame-proof armor::

 

No flaming, but there is no such thing as a "real breed". Everything we see today has been selectively bred for particular traits over decades if not centuries. I doubt I would recognize an Airedale from a hundred years ago.

 

I think the argument for buying a purebred is that you know what you are getting. You should have breed-standard to compare to for size, temperment, and other breed-specific characteristics.

 

I'd have to argue with this. You don't know what you're getting. Within any litter, you'll have different personalities. I can only speak for Airedales, but some of them are just... bad. Even with awesome, never-crossed blood lines. Sure, they may LOOK good, but temperament is entirely different.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

The other thing that gets me, is the people who sell "Labradoodles" around here claim they are perfect for people who allergic to dogs. People are not allergic to "dogs". They are allergic to the dander. And there is no such thing as a hypo-allergenic dog. Except the Portuguese Water Dog. And the jury is still out on that.

 

Actually, Airedales produce no dander. It is why my MIL & FIL bred them; she was horribly allergic to pets otherwise. They were responsible & respected breeders in two states for over 15 years, even if some people would but them in the "backyard" category because they did not run a kennel.

 

----------

 

I agree with the majority of the comments about "designer" dogs being expensive mutts. I don't care what people spend their money on. I do get annoyed at untrained dogs trying to hamstring my dog. I have noticed that, in my community at least, there simply aren't rescue dogs (it is the nature of where I live). There are a ton of pure breeds and designer breeds. They all suck except 3 of them due to a complete lack of training. Three. How sad is that? Even their owners admit it, yet won't do anything about it.

 

 

a

[KidsHappen]

I don't understand why people are willing to pay high prices for any dog, but I do love my "designer dog." We got her at a shelter for $100 which included having her spayed and all of her first shots. She's a sweet little 5 lb Pom/Chihuahua mix who was surrendered by the owners of both her mother and father. They probably could have gotten a pretty penny for her. Apparently they are called Pomchis. I call her Daisy and she makes me and my kids happy.

 

We also have a Pomchi but his heritage had absolutely nothing to do with why my dd picked him. She saw him and said, "Oh, he is so cute. He looks just like a little fox." We got him from a rescue organization that specialized in small breeds. They owned both the mother and father which accidently managed to get togather during transport before they had a chance to get fixed. Once she found the dog, there was tons of paperwork to complete and many hoops to jumps through. The whole process took about a month and then we had to drive over an hour to get him.

Edited December 7, 2010 by KidsHappen

[ktgrok]

[quote name=asta;223559

 

 

Actually' date=' Airedales produce no dander. It is why my MIL & FIL bred them; she was horribly allergic to pets otherwise. They were responsible & respected breeders in two states for over 15 years, even if some people would but them in the "backyard" category because they did not run a kennel.

 

 

a

 

That's not possible. Dander is just shed skin cells. Unless you are telling me thta Airedales are the only animal on earth that doesn't turn over it's skin cells? Cause that just isn't true, or feasible. ALL animals have dander. Some have more than others due to how dry their skin is, or how fast it turns over. More importantly some types of coat collect more dander. And of course it is totally possible to be allergic to the skin of one dog and not another...but someone can and I'm sure is allergic to Airedales. Personally I'm more allergic to short haired cats than long haired cats, and I know others that are the opposite. it just varies by person.

 

Katie

[asta]

That's not possible. Dander is just shed skin cells. Unless you are telling me thta Airedales are the only animal on earth that doesn't turn over it's skin cells? Cause that just isn't true, or feasible. ALL animals have dander. Some have more than others due to how dry their skin is, or how fast it turns over. More importantly some types of coat collect more dander. And of course it is totally possible to be allergic to the skin of one dog and not another...but someone can and I'm sure is allergic to Airedales. Personally I'm more allergic to short haired cats than long haired cats, and I know others that are the opposite. it just varies by person.

 

Katie

 

Let me clarify: If they are groomed quarterly, they don't shed (they have a combination coat that moves from soft to wire as they grow, and you groom them to shorten the length). Since they don't shed, you don't have hair floating all over the place. When you don't have stuff floating all over the place, you tend to also not have dander floating all over the place. I'm sure there are exceptions, as there are exceptions to everything.

 

The only time I've ever had a problem, and I've had them for 17 years, is when they bring something in ON their coat (grass, seeds, etc.).

 

 

a

[vettechmomof2]

The reason is many "designer" dogs are from puppy mills. Those dogs are not chosen for their standard meeting qualities and good temperaments. They are chosen because Poodle + Lab = Labradoodle. They are bred willy nilly and sold for high prices. It's just silly.

 

:iagree:

Very well stated!

[DarlaS]

Hm. I wonder how a mixed-breed dog could be "poorly bred"?

 

Interesting.

 

I would think if you started with two poorly bred purebreds, you'd get the worst of two breeds instead of the best.

 

Who's going to sell a quality purebred dog for breeding to just anyone? I could spend 2k+ on a purebred GSD (from a reputable breeder), and STILL need to sign a spay/neuter contract.

 

Anyone in it for the money is likely starting with purebred puppy mill dogs to begin with.

[katemary63]

:lol::lol::lol:

 

OMG I am dying--- yes, ain't that the truth! Pockets full of liver (or worse!) poop bags in another pocket, feet that feel like you've walked a million miles before breakfast and exhausted circles under your eyes from listening to your dog pant all. night. long. because the AC isn't working in the cheesy (but cheap and dog-friendly!) Motel 6. Plus it's all you can afford, since you've paid entry fees, the expensive repro vet, your regular vet for OFA x-rays, cardiac and thyroid panels, a cardiologist for heart clearances, a canine opthamologist for the CERF testing, had PennHip readings done just in case, and now you're out chasing points and watching the males in the ring, looking for EXACTLY the right combination of temperament, type and clean genetics to MAYBE try for a litter.

 

Sigh. It's the life we love, though. :001_smile:

 

astrid

 

My sister and her DH show their Flat Coated Retriever themselves. No professional handler or trainer. They have finished his UKC championship and are half way done with his AKC. He's being trained for duck hunting, obedience and agility. This is their first show dog and they are having so much fun and are thrilled with their success! (Of course, they chose their dog very carefully!) AFTER he gets all his titles and passes his medical tests they will breed him. Here's his web page maintained for them by his original breeder. He's so pretty!

 

http://www.northernlightsfcr.com/Kenai-2010.html

[Laura Corin]

Nothing is wrong with them, per se, but people are spending small fortunes for what is basically a mutt, when there are so many perfectly good dogs in shelters that they could adopt instead.

 

We could only get a non-shedding dog due to husband's allergies. We looked for a temperament that would work for us, and ended up with a 4th generation Australian labradoodle. She fits brilliantly into our family.

 

Laura

[stephanier.1765]

She fits brilliantly into our family.

 

And that ultimately is all that matters. Cost takes a back seat to what is perfect for your family. I've already stated this once in this thread but my dog has paid back every single penny we paid for her by being the perfect dog for us. I don't regret it one bit. Never have. And a thread trying to make me feel belittled for my choice won't change that either. She may be a mutt but she is a well bred, well considered mutt.

[SBMama]

I am not opposed to designer dogs, but I am opposed to people price gouging because a type of dog is "popular". We only paid $300 for our pure bred Miniature Poodle. She is beautiful, so far healthy, has a great temperament and as I understand comes from champion lines (sorry, I don't know show dog lingo!) I know the breeder and know that she does right by her dogs and the miniature poodle breed. She travels to show her dogs and has invested in the breed for 20 years. We bought her on a pet contract and were required to have her spayed. (She is missing 3 teeth, so therefore not "breeding quality"?) I just don't see how in the world can a mix breed dog be worth $500+ more than that?

Edited December 6, 2010 by SBMama

[Laura Corin]

And that ultimately is all that matters. Cost takes a back seat to what is perfect for your family.

 

She is a breeding dog who lives with us most of the time, just going to the breeder three times in her life to have puppies. After the three litters she will be spayed and given to us.

 

Laura

[Ellie]

The AKC breeds were bred from different breeds in the past to get certain characteristics, right? What makes that different than breeding two different breeds now to get certain characteristics? I understand about needing a breed standard, but what if they come up with one and stay true to that?

That's the point. Most mixed-breed dogs that are being sold as "designer dogs" are not dogs which will eventually become a specific breed. Often they are "oops" pups--the owner's beagle got into the yard with the neighbor's pub-- and so the owner tries to cash in on it instead of just finding good homes for their sweet puppies.

 

When you have a mixed lab-poodle, you may be likely to get certain characteristics, but the second generation will not have the same gene pool; those pups will be 3/4 lab or poodle, not half and half, and which breeds make up the second generation will determine which direction the characteristics go (more poodle or more lab). It looks as if the Australian lab/poodle folks have more of a goal in mind, but I wish they'd call it something different than a "labradoodle." Also, historically, people interbred dogs looking for certain characteristics, not necessarily to introduce a new breed, KWIM? It takes a looooooong time for a breed to be standardized, such that every pup will meet that breed's standard.

[Mama Geek]

It doesn't bother me WHAT you spend your money on. Here's what DOES bother me:

 

Increasingly, more and more ridiculous combinations of breeds are being produced by so-called "breeders" who are in the biz for the money, period. They think of two breed names that sound "cute" when combined, get one of each, and wham! Designer "breed." Case in point: a neighbor just squealed with delight as she told me about the new puppy they are buying off the internet: "It's a WEENIE-POO!" she giggled. My raised eyebrow must have betrayed my skepticism because she continued, "Duh! it's a miniature Dachshund and a mini poodle! But isn't it a great name for a breed?"

 

There are exceptions, but for the most part, those who breed "designer dogs" do not do things like:

1. perform health testing on both parents, only breeding dogs with passing hip, elbow, eye, thyroid, cardiac and other tests.

 

2. follow breeding protocols that are healthy for the b**ch, such as waiting a year between litters, etc.

 

3. provide an enriching, stimulating environment for the pups to explore as they grow

 

4. perform temperament tests and litter evaluations on each pup

 

5. carefully screen potential puppy buyers and maintain close contact with those families

 

6. place puppies on spay/neuter contracts so that they will not contribute to the pet overpopulation problem over the years.

 

So many of these "designer breeders" have used the "THEY"RE HYPOALLERGENIC!!!" carrot as their biggest draw. This convinces many, many families that Johnny who is allergic to dogs will be FINE with a "Aussieterripoo" (Australian Terrier X MPoodle) like "Oliver" who lives three doors down and causes everyone in his family to sneeze and wheeze-- shocker, they're allergic to him! So he'll probably end up in a kill shelter like many, many others. I wish it was as simple a fix as Tiger's flea powder like that old Brady Bunch episode, but it's not. LIVES are ended, families are miserable, and meanwhile the "breeder's" pockets continue to fill.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. The above are all things reputable breeders do to maintain the health and integrity of their breed. Most of these "designer" breeders advertise and sell over the internet, and move on to the next combination, with no thought to the potential physiological problems that could (and probably will) occur from crossing two breeds that themselves probably have myriad health and temperament problems.

 

Believe me, I couldn't care LESS what you spend your money on. What I DO care about is the misery that so many of these "designer" dogs find themselves in once they are relinquished to shelters because the family who bought them online thought the picture was cute, but didn't actually realize that the puppy would poop, pee, chew, growl, bite, need vet care, and actually make them reach for the Claritin.

 

I've been in purebred dogs my whole life. It makes me laugh that the "designer breeders" think that those of us in purebred dogs feel "threatened" by them. Threatened? No. Saddened and frustrated? Yes.

 

Flame away. There is so much else I could say but I"ll stop here.

 

astrid

 

Most of these things don't happen with mutts that you get at the pound. They may screen the people getting a dog and they make you sign a spay/neuter contract, but the other stuff doesn't happen.

 

At least with designer dogs you have a fairly good idea about the breads that are in the dog. I am sure that there are good people involved in breeding designer dogs. They aren't all puppy mills. I have seen puppy mills for pure breads so this is not only a problem with designer dogs.

 

People decide that a dog is more than they want whether the dog is pure bread, designer or pound puppy. There are lots of people who make emotional decisions.

 

I don't blame this on designer dog breeders.

 

We had seriously thought about a particular type of designer dog, but after research and discussion we decided to go for our second pure bread. Both of my dogs have come from "backyard breeders" and so far we have been happy with them. We talked to the people, saw where they lived, met the parents of the dogs and decided based on how well the dogs were taken care of that we would take a puppy. My first dog lived to be 15 and so far my second one is happy and healthy. I have followed my instincts about the people and it has worked out well so far.

 

I would not get a dog from a pound. I think that when I get a dog, that it is my dog. It no longer belongs to the pound or the breeder. But hey, that is just me.

[jazzyfizzle]

It doesn't bother me WHAT you spend your money on. Here's what DOES bother me:

 

Increasingly, more and more ridiculous combinations of breeds are being produced by so-called "breeders" who are in the biz for the money, period. They think of two breed names that sound "cute" when combined, get one of each, and wham! Designer "breed." Case in point: a neighbor just squealed with delight as she told me about the new puppy they are buying off the internet: "It's a WEENIE-POO!" she giggled. My raised eyebrow must have betrayed my skepticism because she continued, "Duh! it's a miniature Dachshund and a mini poodle! But isn't it a great name for a breed?"

 

There are exceptions, but for the most part, those who breed "designer dogs" do not do things like:

1. perform health testing on both parents, only breeding dogs with passing hip, elbow, eye, thyroid, cardiac and other tests.

 

2. follow breeding protocols that are healthy for the b**ch, such as waiting a year between litters, etc.

 

3. provide an enriching, stimulating environment for the pups to explore as they grow

 

4. perform temperament tests and litter evaluations on each pup

 

5. carefully screen potential puppy buyers and maintain close contact with those families

 

6. place puppies on spay/neuter contracts so that they will not contribute to the pet overpopulation problem over the years.

 

So many of these "designer breeders" have used the "THEY"RE HYPOALLERGENIC!!!" carrot as their biggest draw. This convinces many, many families that Johnny who is allergic to dogs will be FINE with a "Aussieterripoo" (Australian Terrier X MPoodle) like "Oliver" who lives three doors down and causes everyone in his family to sneeze and wheeze-- shocker, they're allergic to him! So he'll probably end up in a kill shelter like many, many others. I wish it was as simple a fix as Tiger's flea powder like that old Brady Bunch episode, but it's not. LIVES are ended, families are miserable, and meanwhile the "breeder's" pockets continue to fill.

 

I could go on, but you get the idea. The above are all things reputable breeders do to maintain the health and integrity of their breed. Most of these "designer" breeders advertise and sell over the internet, and move on to the next combination, with no thought to the potential physiological problems that could (and probably will) occur from crossing two breeds that themselves probably have myriad health and temperament problems.

 

Believe me, I couldn't care LESS what you spend your money on. What I DO care about is the misery that so many of these "designer" dogs find themselves in once they are relinquished to shelters because the family who bought them online thought the picture was cute, but didn't actually realize that the puppy would poop, pee, chew, growl, bite, need vet care, and actually make them reach for the Claritin.

 

I've been in purebred dogs my whole life. It makes me laugh that the "designer breeders" think that those of us in purebred dogs feel "threatened" by them. Threatened? No. Saddened and frustrated? Yes.

 

Flame away. There is so much else I could say but I"ll stop here.

 

astrid

 

 

Thank you Astrid. I could quote every word and add in that dog breeds were created over centuries of time for a purpose. Maybe man should have done that, maybe not. But there was an atual reason for it and they enriched and helped human lives by doing specific jobs. The sole purpose of creation was not to line pockets by making up a fake purse name and create a dog. Many of these things combine groups- breeding a herding dog to a terrier. Who in their right, thinking, ethical mind would do that? I will tell you who- fly by nighters who are cashing in and laughing their @ss off all the way to bank.

 

 

I've been in purebred dogs my whole life. It makes me laugh that the "designer breeders" think that those of us in purebred dogs feel "threatened" by them. Threatened? No. Saddened and frustrated? Yes.

 

 

Amen sister.

Edited December 6, 2010 by jazzyfizzle
typo

[jazzyfizzle]

We could only get a non-shedding dog due to husband's allergies. We looked for a temperament that would work for us, and ended up with a 4th generation Australian labradoodle. She fits brilliantly into our family.

 

Laura

 

From what I have read, some of these breeders are making a real effort to create a breed for an actual purpose and a doing good job at it. This I can live with.

 

The problem came when people saw this and started copying the idea with other breeds and for far different reasons (ie- to take people's money).

[jazzyfizzle]

The AKC breeds were bred from different breeds in the past to get certain characteristics, right? What makes that different than breeding two different breeds now to get certain characteristics? I understand about needing a breed standard, but what if they come up with one and stay true to that?

 

Because that is not the intention- to create a breed for a true purpose.

The purpose is to only take people's money with mixed breed dogs being created for no reason as a result.

[jazzyfizzle]

LOL I'd better sign off before I start :banghead:- this actually managed to raise my always low blood pressure.

 

:D

[kokotg]

Because that is not the intention- to create a breed for a true purpose.

The purpose is to only take people's money with mixed breed dogs being created for no reason as a result.

 

But a bit of a spin off of this...I'm not sure what the politics of it are these days, but back when we did flyball, people were cross-breeding dogs specifically for flyball, and it was, at least at the time, very controversial. People crossed border collies with jack russells, for example, to get Border Jacks, and border collies with border terriers to get Border Borders. Does this change things, do you think? (general "you"; I'm quoting jazzyfizzle because it was the last post I saw that related to this, not because I'm only interested in her opinion on it). Is it okay to breed dogs for a specific purpose like that, or do some of the same ethical problems apply?

 

(I find this discussion interesting, but not especially relevant to me, since all of my current and probably all of my future dogs are rescue mutts (well, we suspect that one of them might actually, somehow or other, be a Bergamasco, but he's from a shelter. anyway)).

[Carrie12345]

I didn't read the whole thing, but caught Astrid's post and agree with most of it.

 

I'm not "anti-designer dogs" any more than I'm anti-purebreeding. I do favor rescue mutts for population/humane reasons, but breeding to improve a line and buying specific dogs (whether purebred, designer bred, or mutt) is certainly important in many cases.

It's when it's done solely for fun and/or profit that I get sick to my stomach. The "designer" aspect tends to play into that big time.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I thought it was so interesting that I just talked to my brother who had been in the market for a Labradoodle because of his wife's allergies. When they asked the previous owners why they wanted to give up the dog, they were told, "allergies!" So maybe it was one of the next generation dogs.

[tex-mex]

There are a ton of pure breeds and designer breeds. They all suck except 3 of them due to a complete lack of training. Three. How sad is that? Even their owners admit it, yet won't do anything about it.

 

 

a

:iagree: I could care less about the original OP's topic ;) -- but I have to chime in here and strongly agree with you. My pet peeve is with those dog owners who buy or rescue a dog and then do NOTHING with it. No training, no attention, and it simply bugs me. I hate visiting their home and being assaulted by their dog -- it isn't the canine's fault for being out of control -- but the idiot owner. :glare:

 

However, if I come across a pet therapy dog or well trained dog -- I am in deep respect for the owner. That is a lot of work for such an amazing animal for everyone to enjoy.

[mamakori]

We have an Australian Multi-gen Labradoodle that was bred by a U.S. breeder from Australian bloodlines. Our breeder didn't even remotely resemble a puppy mill. She is passionate about the emerging "breed," having served on the board of the breed club, and focuses on raising incredible family pets. Our prior dog was a shelter rescue that we got before kids and she violently attacked my oldest DS when he was a toddler (he is lucky he didn't lose his vision, and he still has scars on his face), and had to be put down. When we were healed enough from that experience, we did a great deal of research in deciding on the right type of dog for our family and we have not been disappointed. Was our dog, insanely expensive? Absolutely, but we could afford it and to us, it was totally worth it to us to get the right dog for our family. I just wish those working on developing the breed could have come up with a better name, as there is a huge difference between our Australian Multi-Gen Labradoodle and the puppy mill Puggles and Maltipoos filling up the pet stores. But even if you don't see the difference and think I'm just a sucker with an overpriced mutt, that's alright. The bottom line is that my family has a great dog.

[tex-mex]

That's not possible. Dander is just shed skin cells. Unless you are telling me thta Airedales are the only animal on earth that doesn't turn over it's skin cells? Cause that just isn't true, or feasible. ALL animals have dander. Some have more than others due to how dry their skin is, or how fast it turns over. More importantly some types of coat collect more dander. And of course it is totally possible to be allergic to the skin of one dog and not another...but someone can and I'm sure is allergic to Airedales. Personally I'm more allergic to short haired cats than long haired cats, and I know others that are the opposite. it just varies by person.

 

Katie

I think what she means is the dander created is minimal and hypo-allergenic. Our Ragdoll cat was purchased for the same purpose (I am highly allergic to cats) -- but this breed is supposedly hypo-allergenic. I can honestly say after 6 years of having this long haired cat in my home and sleeping with him nightly and I don't have to take daily allergy meds or shots... he is hypo-allergenic. I have to bathe him and brush him to keep the dander under control. But if I come into a person's home with another breed, short hair, or long haired, or mix -- I have to take a Benadryl. Go figure.

Edited December 6, 2010 by tex-mex

[Laura Corin]

 

The breeder of our dog does the following

 

1. perform health testing on both parents, only breeding dogs with passing hip, elbow, eye, thyroid, cardiac and other tests. Yes.

 

2. follow breeding protocols that are healthy for the b**ch, such as waiting a year between litters, etc. Yes

 

3. provide an enriching, stimulating environment for the pups to explore as they grow Yes, see video of labradoodle puppies

 

4. perform temperament tests and litter evaluations on each pup Yes

 

5. carefully screen potential puppy buyers and maintain close contact with those families Yes

 

6. place puppies on spay/neuter contracts so that they will not contribute to the pet overpopulation problem over the years. Yes

 

Laura

[Willow]

In New Zealand we have a new breed called a Huntaway. Huntaway is actually the name of a herding competition. They are not recognized by any kennel club, but they are certainly here, and i don't think the farmers care about the registration!

 

Some sheepdogs used their voice (bark) to herd, and the farmers, intrigued by the possibilities began to breed for this trait. (Herding by barking)

Huntaways are now all over New Zealand, and are very successful at their job. A good dog can command a very high price. However their looks are all over the place! They are often large 'black and tan' type dogs but many look more collie or bearded collie in type. They can be long or short or rough haired. In fact they can look like anything!

 

I'm not too sure where I am going with this, but I think I am making the point that dogs are developed for different traits all the time. I suppose if some people want to breed for looks then good luck to them. As a buyer I would also want to know (and have proof) they were also breeding for trainability and temperament too!

 

Perhaps our efforts need to go into preventing puppy mills. I believe in the UK one cannot buy a dog from a shop, but must visit the breeder. This would put a spanner in the works of puppy mills. it would also help if we educated people to never buy a puppy, no matter how cute, without meeting the parents and all the other things one is supposed to do. Obviously with rescue dogs this is impossible, but here, at any rate, these are assessed for temperament before going out to new home.

[Bird Girl]

I don't think there's anything wrong with intentionally mixing breeds, as a flyball breeder might do, if, as with any breeder, they are carefully evaluating their dam and carefully selecting the sire, know what kind of puppies they are likely to get, and can provide a home for the dogs they produce for the entire life of the dog (for example, the dog will never be surrendered to a shelter, but would go and live with the breeder at any point in the dog's life.) Breeding any random two dogs that happen to be the same breeds (or, in this case, different breeds) produces more badly bred dogs.

 

Farm dogs, like hunting or sport dogs, are often bred based on fitness, rather than appearance, like a breed standard. But making breeding choices based on fitness is, at base, the whole point of intentional dog breeding and animal husbandry in general. The breeding of service animals like Labradoodles, done with selected and health-tested animals is filling that same purpose. Cranking out mixes made from random dogs for profit is another issue entirely, and I think we can agree that it's not a positive one.

[LibraryLover]

I let my cat play outside.

[ktgrok]

Just to add some humor...

 

One of my coworkers is VERY involved in rescue, both dogs and cats. She recently had a litter of puppies she was trying to place. They were dachund chihuahua mixes. I told her to call them Chachsunds, and tell everyone they were a very rare breed, then charge 3 times the normal adoption fee (in order to raise funds to provide care for a sick animal she also was fostering). She didn't do it, but I remain convinced that there are many gullible people that would never pay for a mutt, but would happily shell out big bucks for a dog with a designer name, and often joke that I'm going to make breed websites for all the various mixes in the local shelter to get them adopted faster.

[astrid]

Laura

 

Yes, Laura...YOUR breeder does that. But for every ethical, knowledgeable breeder, of both purebreds or "designer" poo-things, I can show you twenty or more who are not. They think of two (usually tiny) breeds whose names when combined sound cutesy, such as "WeeniePoo" "ChiChiPoo" and then bingo, internet website, tons of sales.

 

Small dogs such as these come with a host of issues, some of which have been lamented right here on this site-- how many times have we read a plea here from someone who is desperately trying to housebreak their tiny dog? Tiny dogs have tiny bladders, and are notoriously difficult to housebreak reliably. It's just the nature of the beast. Puggles, for instance, are incredibly stubborn in nature. Experienced dog owners have a tough time with them, often. Not an easy combination! Combine that issue with internet sales to folks who think they're a cute accessory and the result is a lot of unhappy families and full shelters. Sad all the way round.

 

Yes, this happens in purebred dogs too, but that's not what the OP was musing about. And every purebred dog has at least one breed-specific rescue organization behind it staffed by volunteer angels who constantly comb local shelters and Pefinder.com and then try to save the lives of those impulse buys that for whatever reason just didn't work out. New and different designer hybrid combinations are popping up at an alarming rate, and as far as I know, devoted rescue organizations are not keeping pace.

 

astrid

[StaceyinLA]

I first do want to say that there is a difference in a mutt and a mixed breed. A crossbred dog would give you the benefit of knowing it's parentage, so it can't be called a mutt (well, shouldn't be).

 

That being said, I support no type of backyard breeding, and I think puppy mills should be outlawed! Animal suffering (in any form) at the hands of greedy humans is just beyond sickening! Far too often, designer breeders are just trying to make a buck.

 

We own what could be considered a designer dog. We paid $100 for him. He was an accident between a yorkie and a pom that were both owned by a lady who showed poms. He is a precious dog. We have had him 9 years. We also own a couple of purebred, AKC, bought from reputable breeder chihuahuas, a pb pom, and 3 rescues. All of our dogs are fixed.

 

We own 8 rescued cats, most saved from the side of the road.

 

It disgusts me the way people treat animals. I think the breeding of ANY and ALL dogs (well, animals in general) needs to be carefully planned and executed to better the breeds that are in existence, not to create new ones.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thank you Astrid. I could quote every word and add in that dog breeds were created over centuries of time for a purpose. Maybe man should have done that, maybe not. But there was an atual reason for it and they enriched and helped human lives by doing specific jobs. The sole purpose of creation was not to line pockets by making up a fake purse name and create a dog. Many of these things combine groups- breeding a herding dog to a terrier. Who in their right, thinking, ethical mind would do that? I will tell you who- fly by nighters who are cashing in and laughing their @ss off all the way to bank.

 

 

I've been in purebred dogs my whole life. It makes me laugh that the "designer breeders" think that those of us in purebred dogs feel "threatened" by them. Threatened? No. Saddened and frustrated? Yes.

 

 

Amen sister.

 

I think that you could come up with several modern breeds of dogs that were created for frivolous reasons. Not every breed has its roots in protecting the family livestock. You could even make a case that several of the hunting dogs were developed to promote what was a luxury pasttime, not something that was a question of subsistence or protecting livestock or crops from devouring animals.

 

Not a fan of puppy mills. Not a fan of families who buy dogs without thinking it through. I think that pure bread or mutt may meet the needs of a given family at a given time.

 

I am totally over the folks who buy a dog at the local big box store, because it's cute and fuzzy, then realize that their other dog doesn't want to compete with the newcomer. And please don't get me started about military families who will dump their "pet" because it's too expensive to fly them out when transfer time comes around or who think that having brought their dog, they should get some special preference in housing over other families (only a small number of units on our base are allowed dogs).

[StaceyinLA]

I have seen a mix like that in local papers. They were called chiweenies.

[Bird Girl]

Can people buy dogs at big box stores!?! Surely this isn't true...

[Plucky]

I let my cat play outside.

 

I let all my cats play outside. They are my organic pest control.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Can people buy dogs at big box stores!?! Surely this isn't true...

 

We're in Japan, where Homes is a local big box store. Picture a multi floor store combining Home Depot, WalMart and a furniture store. No clothes, but everything from flowers to tools to bikes to camping to dining tables to window coverings.

 

And a pet section that sells not only supplies but pets including rabbits, kittens and puppies.

 

A friend of ours from scouts called me one day because her dear friend had bought a second dog there and then said dog didn't get along with her first dog. (My scout friend was asking if she could post a for sale notice on our scout email list.)

 

Dogs in Japan are frequently very expensive. As in hundreds and thousands of dollars. But I get the impression that what is popular are very intentional animals like pure breeds or dogs breed to be cute indoor dogs (space is very limited). I can't say that I've ever seen a mutt here.

 

I know that the dog/cat rescue group on base has more animals than they can place among the US community, especially around PCS season, when families are abandoning dogs rather than spend the money to fly them to the next duty station.

 

I wish that my youngest could have a dog. He is so fond of them and gravitates to the side of any dog in the area. But we have been moving around so much and have such busy schedules that a fish is really about our reasonable limits for animal responsibility.

[Bird Girl]

Ah, that sounds like a very different context. I was having visions of puppies in Walmart.

[stephanier.1765]

I let all my cats play outside. They are my organic pest control.

 

Yeah, it's all fun and games until they bring their playthings into the house. :tongue_smilie::D My kitty loves to bring her lizards into the house so she can finish playing with them until they finally keel over. I can't tell you how many lizard skeletons or mummified lizards I've found over the years. Even worse is when there is a loose tail hanging around. Ewwwwwww