Crying boys?

[justamouse]

I've seen women get just as mean and nasty as men if not more so at times. Generally the people (it doesn't matter whether it is male or female) that are the best leaders are those that don't get rattled when things get tough. And from what I have seen leaders and managers aren't always the same thing.

 

You have one baby that is a few months old?

 

When your kid is 11 and you KNOW that kid, and a coach addresses him like that in front of his friends? I'd love to see your response then.

 

And, I see a lot of women on this board and I'm willing to bet years of being mommas makes them pretty unrattleable. Strength doesn't only come from the military. I know nurses who are just as unrattleable and hold people and cry as these people die. I see no lessening of their strength. My Mom was an ER nurse for 15 years. THAT woman is unrattlebale. She cries at the drop of a hat. She's no less strong and if you are in the ER you had better jump when she says to.

[mytwomonkeys]

Sorry, I hate the term "man up". The boy isn't a man. It was important to him. It would be hard to get through life if one fell apart over every disappointment, but I don't think this one episode means that is the case. And how does one know if the boy doesn't have some sort of emotional problems? Ya never really know what his story is.

 

Just to give you an example of "ya never really know". Our neighbor has a son who is about 12. He plays baseball. We have heard the dad screaming at the 12 year old when he had a bad game. He called him worthless and useless. I can imagine crying over baseball if I had that waiting for me at home.

 

Why is it the end of the world that the kid cried? Who knows at that moment what was really going on. Maybe he just had a bad day and one disappointment happened after another and that was the last straw.

 

i really agree with you. well said.

[NanceXToo]

Did anyone say it was the least appropriate reaction in the world?

I sure didn't. I said it was not appropriate.

I'm sure any of us could come up with worse reactions.

Is the goal for these kids so low that we can only hope to avoid the least appropriate and thus ignore other inappropriate behaviors?:001_huh:

 

 

 

Who has that double standard here? Has anyone said that?

 

Because I for one do NOT permit that with any of my children.

 

Heck no, they do not get to just call the PMS card to excuse their behavior.:blink:

 

I'm flabbergasted. It's an EMOTION, not a BEHAVIOR. Sometimes you just can't help it if you cry. Even in front of other people. When did that become a crime for anybody? And for a kid no less? Wow. That's so callous!

 

ETA: And you know I like you, Martha lol (so I hope we can still be friends) but this topic is getting to me, I don't think it's right to punish a kid for showing emotion if they aren't doing it in a way that hurts others!

[Garga]

Man up. Hmm. If they play badly are they told that they "throw like a girl?" Why is being level-headed and in control associated with being a man, but being bad at things associated with being a girl? I find it personally insulting as a woman to hear the phrase "man up." It infers that, since I'm a woman with no hope of ever being a man, I'll always be weak and emotional and lesser.

 

 

Ok--rant aside. I really hate the part of our culture that does this to our young men: suppressing their emotions.

 

So, here's how I see the situation:

 

The boy struck out. He thought it was a ball. So when it was called a strike instead of a ball, he felt wronged.

However, his emotions were based on a lie and not fact. He wasn't wronged and the coach needed to point that out, "You were wrong, not the umpire." That's acceptable.

 

Helping the child learn to control his emotions is good, too. We can't all fall on the floor crying at every disappointment. At age 12, it is time to feel the emotion, get it out, and then learn how to get past it and keep on going. That's acceptable, too.

 

But telling him to "man up" and being disdainful that he let the emotion overtake him is what I don't like. It was a teachable moment, but not something to be surprised about. That part was not acceptable.

 

Twelve is when young men AND women need to learn how to control emotions and not be controlled by them. And good job on the other kids for being kind and understanding.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Garga

[justamouse]

 

Who has that double standard here? Has anyone said that?

 

Because I for one do NOT permit that with any of my children.

 

Heck no, they do not get to just call the PMS card to excuse their behavior.:blink:

 

So, neither you nor your daughters have gotten overemotional and then in the next few days realized why? You don't lose patience with your kids and get harsh and then a few days later apologize because you realize you had PMS? You never were overdemanding or short because you had PMS and taken it out on your family?

 

Well, I guess I'm the only one, then.

[Annie Laurie]

So much here to talk about...

 

Crying can happen because of sadness, disappointment, frustration, rage (my specialty as a kid - DW doesn't even know that - sshhhh!), stress, anxiety, happiness/exhiliration, surprise, I'm sure there's more...both boys and girls have these emotions.

 

Crying can be a healthy stress release, particularly after a 'tense' round at the plate.

 

Boys go soft? I've seen a 9 yr old boy cry for being relentlessly teased, just before giving the bully a royal snotty bloody nose (richly deserved, mind you)...he didn't look too soft to me...

 

I've seen countless posts here that included declarations of 'I'm crying as I type...'

 

I've coached sports teams where frustration in a kid built to the point of crying, requiring me to 'pull' the player till he could calm down and get his head back in the game...he wasn't whining, weeping, or complaining...he was a kid, and the situation got a little overwhelming. I think that is normal...

 

Just putting it out there, FWIW, there's nothing wrong with crying...whining, on the other hand...

 

This whole post is right on! I find it a little disturbing that people think it's not okay for a kid to cry, and that the worst is being assumed- the kid cried because he wanted drama or attention, and he's selfish? Yuck. Do we assume that about an adult that cries?

[justamouse]

So much here to talk about...

 

Crying can happen because of sadness, disappointment, frustration, rage (my specialty as a kid - DW doesn't even know that - sshhhh!), stress, anxiety, happiness/exhiliration, surprise, I'm sure there's more...both boys and girls have these emotions.

 

Crying can be a healthy stress release, particularly after a 'tense' round at the plate.

 

Boys go soft? I've seen a 9 yr old boy cry for being relentlessly teased, just before giving the bully a royal snotty bloody nose (richly deserved, mind you)...he didn't look too soft to me...

 

I've seen countless posts here that included declarations of 'I'm crying as I type...'

 

I've coached sports teams where frustration in a kid built to the point of crying, requiring me to 'pull' the player till he could calm down and get his head back in the game...he wasn't whining, weeping, or complaining...he was a kid, and the situation got a little overwhelming. I think that is normal...

 

Just putting it out there, FWIW, there's nothing wrong with crying...whining, on the other hand...

 

Amen.

[Annie Laurie]

Some people (including big, tough men) cry more easily than others. I have only seen my dh cry 3 times, 2 of those were at funerals for close friends. I wouldn't wish that sort of bottling up of emotions on anyone. I have seen big, very tough guys (nobody would dispute their being tough type) cry over a child's touching letter. I hate the whole idea of it not being okay to show emotion.

 

 

Yes, and I have experience with men who, because they were taught it's not okay to cry and that they must hold their emotions in, end up letting everything that's been bottled up come out as rage- because anger is more acceptable for a man to show.

[kaylk in tx]

Last night at my son's baseball game, one of the boys struck out. He didn't swing at the last pitch and the umpire called it a strike. He, of course, thought it was a ball. He's a very upbeat kid but when he came back to the dugout he started crying. These are 11- and 12-year-old boys. So for the next five minutes or so the coach was trying to console him and the other boys were patting him on the back

 

See, I read this differently.... and we're a big sports family, year round baseball and swimming, plus seasonal soccer. My oldest ds is 10, plays with other 9 and 10yos, and kids come to the dugout upset and teary-eyed when striking out. But NONE of them go on and on for FIVE minutes about it. THAT's what was way out of proportion, not the original tears. And I guess count me as a "mean mom" because I do tell my boys to suck it up and other phrases. When mine gets teary eyed after striking out, either dh or myself go over and tell him it's ok, he'll try again next time, but now he has to calm down because there's still a game to play.

[Barry Goldwater]

Man up. Hmm. If they play badly are they told that they "throw like a girl?" Why is being level-headed and in control associated with being a man, but being bad at things associated with being a girl? I find it personally insulting as a woman to hear the phrase "man up." It infers that, since I'm a woman with no hope of ever being a man, I'll always be weak and emotional and lesser.

 

The boy struck out. He thought it was a ball. So when it was called a strike instead of a ball, he felt wronged.

However, his emotions were based on a lie and not fact. He wasn't wronged and the coach needed to point that out, "You were wrong, not the umpire." That's acceptable.

 

Helping the child learn to control his emotions is good, too. We can't all fall on the floor crying at every disappointment. At age 12, it is time to feel the emotion, get it out, and then learn how to get past it and keep on going. That's acceptable, too.

 

But telling him to "man up" and being disdainful that he let the emotion overtake him is what I don't like. It was a teachable moment, but not something to be surprised about. That part was not acceptable.

 

Twelve is when young men AND women need to learn how to control emotions and not be controlled by them. And good job on the other kids for being kind and understanding.

 

 

Part of playing sports is dealing with the fact that a ref, or umpire, or official, MIGHT GET THE CALL WRONG!! It's frustrating but part of the game...the offficial has the AUTHORITY, EVEN TO GET IT WRONG SOMETIMES...the maturing player learns to deal with this and overcome it...it's difficult, and some pro athletes haven't even figured this out...

 

I think the coach had the right idea, but took a 'lazy' way out by using the 'man-up' approach...IF that's what he ACTUALLY SAID.

 

I'm glad to be the level-headed man here to help all you emotional women figure this out :D [just joking! please laugh and don't get mad.]

 

BTW, I cried at the end of 'HOME ALONE,' 'MIRACLE,' and 'UNTAMED HEART,' when the NY Rangers won the Stanley Cup, when every one of my daughters was born, when my DW's horse died, when other loved ones passed on (humans), just to name just a few...maybe I need to man-up too! :001_smile:

[Mama Geek]

You have one baby that is a few months old?

 

When your kid is 11 and you KNOW that kid, and a coach addresses him like that in front of his friends? I'd love to see your response then.

 

Yes, I do only have 1 dd that is a few months old, that doesn't mean that my opinion is invalid. I do my best to keep control of my actions and emotions, I will likely expect the same from my dd.

[pdalley]

I do get that and agree it's a natural response.

 

But nope, we don't get to say, "Oh you'll just have to let me go all PMS on the team right now because I'm feeling a mood come over me."

 

Um. No.

 

They have to learn to own their emotions and cope appropriately. They are not going to always do so because they are learning and growing. And it's up to the adults around them to let them know when it isn't appropriate for them to inflict their mood swings on whoever happens to be in their vicinity.

 

:iagree:

 

My 14 year old Aspie is a prime example. If he were allowed to do such a thing it would escalate itself into a violent meltdown. My boys know they can cry all they want to - there are places and times for it. Other times they need to deal with it until they can get to a place where they can cry, scream or whatever. I would be neglecting my parental duty not to be rigid with them on this.

 

It's not a question of telling mine to 'man up.' It's teaching them that one of the things they need to be diligent about is self control. It's a particular struggle that all of mine will face. I wish someone had taught me appropriate emotional outlets and times and places. I was a lousy employee and friend until I realized this.

 

They are not emotionally suppressed. Not in the least.

[Mrs Mungo]

Last night at my son's baseball game, one of the boys struck out. He didn't swing at the last pitch and the umpire called it a strike. He, of course, thought it was a ball. He's a very upbeat kid but when he came back to the dugout he started crying. These are 11- and 12-year-old boys. So for the next five minutes or so the coach was trying to console him and the other boys were patting him on the back

 

See, I read this differently.... and we're a big sports family, year round baseball and swimming, plus seasonal soccer. My oldest ds is 10, plays with other 9 and 10yos, and kids come to the dugout upset and teary-eyed when striking out. But NONE of them go on and on for FIVE minutes about it. THAT's what was way out of proportion, not the original tears. And I guess count me as a "mean mom" because I do tell my boys to suck it up and other phrases. When mine gets teary eyed after striking out, either dh or myself go over and tell him it's ok, he'll try again next time, but now he has to calm down because there's still a game to play.

 

I don't think *anyone* is disputing that the situation needed to be addressed. Only the *how* is being disputed.

 

Sometimes, once you start crying it is hard to stop, especially if people keep bothering you about it. If you are left alone for a few minutes or excused to the bathroom to clean up, it's easier.

 

Part of playing sports is dealing with the fact that a ref, or umpire, or official, MIGHT GET THE CALL WRONG!! It's frustrating but part of the game...the offficial has the AUTHORITY, EVEN TO GET IT WRONG SOMETIMES...the maturing player learns to deal with this and overcome it...it's difficult, and some pro athletes haven't even figured this out...

 

I think this is very important lesson in sports. The officials are RIGHT, even when they are WRONG. There is no point arguing it.

 

eta: On another board quite a while ago I was told I was heartless (by people with no kids) for the way I treated my 11 dd during a dentist appointment. She had never been scared by the dentist before. She suddenly decided to play drama queen at the dentist one day while getting a filling. They called me back, asking me if I wanted them to continue by strapping her down. I said, let me talk to her and then I told her "you need to stop, you need to calm down, you need to open your mouth and let them finish. If you do not, they will strap you down and put a thing in your mouth to hold it open." It was the truth. She calmed down *immediately*. The dentist didn't think I was right to tell her that, but the dentist didn't know her. She IS one for drama at times and she HATES to be held down. If they had tried to strap her down she would have had a coronary. BUT I did not say "man up, quit being a baby" or some such. That is belittling and not necessary, imo.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[justamouse]

Source/citation, please?

 

lemme find it

 

wait, first I found this

 

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/12/5-career-tips-women-should-ignore/

 

5. Don’t cry at work

Newsflash. Women cry a lot and men don’t. So let’s just stop telling women to be men at work. No point. People who do best in their careers are people who are their true selves.

 

 

And, I have first-hand research on this topic, because I have cried at all levels of my career. To be fair, I cry mostly when I have PMS. But whatever. PMS is just your body telling your brain that you need to start crying about the stuff that you’ve been ignoring all month.

 

 

Here’s the big secret about crying though. Men who are secure with themselves and their position in the world actually deal with women crying just fine. So any guy at work who cannot deal with you crying needs to get some therapy in order to be more self-assured. You, on the other hand, are doing just fine with those workplace tears.

 

She's a multimillionare, I think she's leading just fine, tears and all, though she just married a farmer and watched her business launch out in a anew direction. Oh, and she's an aspie and blogs at length about how she's gotten so far dealing with aspie difficulties.

 

this applies:

 

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/13/you-should-lead-from-the-middle/

 

The way to be a good leader is to lead from the middle.

The Internet has changed the idea of authority. The old ways of gaining authority, by jumping through corporate or academic hoops have been superceeded by the democratized and ubiquitous access to information. Changes in authority necessarily lead to changes in leadership.

And here's the one

 

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_47/b3708145.htm

 

Twenty-five years after women first started pouring into the labor force--and trying to be more like men in every way, from wearing power suits to picking up golf clubs--new research is showing that men ought to be the ones doing more of the imitating. In fact, after years of analyzing what makes leaders most effective and figuring out who's got the Right Stuff, management gurus now know how to boost the odds of getting a great executive: Hire a female.

 

That's the essential finding of a growing number of comprehensive management studies conducted by consultants across the country for companies ranging from high-tech to manufacturing to consumer services. By and large, the studies show that women executives, when rated by their peers, underlings, and bosses, score higher than their male counterparts on a wide variety of measures--from producing high-quality work to goal-setting to mentoring employees. Using elaborate performance evaluations of execs, researchers found that women got higher ratings than men on almost every skill measured. Ironically, the researchers weren't looking to ferret out gender differences. They accidentally stumbled on the findings when they were compiling hundreds of routine performance evaluations and then analyzing the results.

 

The gender differences were often small, and men sometimes earned higher marks in some critical areas, such as strategic ability and technical analysis. But overall, female executives were judged more effective than their male counterparts. ''Women are scoring higher on almost everything we look at,'' says Shirley Ross, an industrial psychologist who helped oversee a study performed by Hagberg Consulting Group in Foster City, Calif. Hagberg conducts in-depth performance evaluations of senior managers for its diverse clients, including technology, health care, financial-service, and consumer-goods companies. Of the 425 high-level executives evaluated, each by about 25 people, women execs won higher ratings on 42 of the 52 skills measured.

Edited October 19, 2010 by justamouse
made font from quote smaller

[clarkacademy]

Sorry, I hate the term "man up". The boy isn't a man. It was important to him. It would be hard to get through life if one fell apart over every disappointment, but I don't think this one episode means that is the case. And how does one know if the boy doesn't have some sort of emotional problems? Ya never really know what his story is.

 

Just to give you an example of "ya never really know". Our neighbor has a son who is about 12. He plays baseball. We have heard the dad screaming at the 12 year old when he had a bad game. He called him worthless and useless. I can imagine crying over baseball if I had that waiting for me at home.

 

Why is it the end of the world that the kid cried? Who knows at that moment what was really going on. Maybe he just had a bad day and one disappointment happened after another and that was the last straw.

 

I am with you there. I would flip if someone spoke to my child that way.

[Mama Geek]

And you really think that because an ELEVEN YEAR OLD BOY cried about something that he's doomed to a lifetime of not knowing how to handle himself as an adult?

 

Oh, please!

 

That kind of thing comes pretty automatically with age and maturity, even if you cry when you're 11, even if somebody doesn't tell you to "man up" in front of your friends.

 

What a silly argument.

 

I think if kids aren't trained and guided that it is much harder for them to learn how to handle themselves no matter what the behavior is. It isn't impossible to learn when they are older just more difficult.

[pdalley]

 

I think this is very important lesson in sports. The officials are RIGHT, even when they are WRONG. There is no point arguing it.

 

 

Exactly. I'll never forget watching the bad call that cost a pitcher his perfect game. The pitcher took it well, obviously disappointed but didn't make a big deal out of it. The next day the umpire was on TV apologizing for blowing the call. He didn't get his perfect game.

 

Maybe I sound harsh but as my oldest son has actually knocked out one of my teeth in a rage - I feel I have to be rigid with him when it comes to his emotions. I would never tell him he could not feel anything - or that he could not cry - but I will and do tell him where and when he can do that. It's held off more than one meltdown by directing him to move on. We always validate his feelings - when he has calmed down and can listen we talk about what he can do to prevent a repeat.

 

If my son hit someone else in a meltdown he'd be arrested. So my perspective is much different that most Moms.

[Mrs Mungo]

Exactly. I'll never forget watching the bad call that cost a pitcher his perfect game. The pitcher took it well, obviously disappointed but didn't make a big deal out of it. The next day the umpire was on TV apologizing for blowing the call. He didn't get his perfect game.

 

Maybe I sound harsh but as my oldest son has actually knocked out one of my teeth in a rage - I feel I have to be rigid with him when it comes to his emotions. I would never tell him he could not feel anything - or that he could not cry - but I will and do tell him where and when he can do that. It's held off more than one meltdown by directing him to move on. We always validate his feelings - when he has calmed down and can listen we talk about what he can do to prevent a repeat.

 

If my son hit someone else in a meltdown he'd be arrested. So my perspective is much different that most Moms.

 

I don't have a child like that. I do have a sensitive, ADD middle daughter who *does* sometimes overreact in a dramatic way. I *am* firm with her at those times. But, I don't demean her and I think telling a child that they need to "man up" is demeaning.

[mama2cntrykids]

Seriously? It *is* okay to cry.

 

It is not okay to make a big deal out of a small one, or make scene in public.

 

Crying is normal and healthy in the right circumstances.

 

I totally agree! I am an emotional person and I cry. It's ok. I'm not embarrased by it, nor should I be. Granted, I usually just don't start bawling in the middle of a crowd, but I cry my fair share at home.

[mo2]

I think your dh was mean, and his comments were uncalled-for. The other kids were doing something nice, trying to console their teammate, and somehow you see that as a bad thing? How is kindness a bad thing?

 

I'm not saying that I think most 11 or 12 year-old boys should cry because they strike out once in baseball, but I also don't think it's a coach's place to tell them to "man up" if they do. Maybe the poor kid was already upset about something else, and striking out was just the last straw for him. Whatever the case, apparently his teammates didn't treat him like a baby for it, but your dh certainly did.

 

Crying is not such a terrible thing.

 

Cat

:iagree: Crying is okay. I hope no one ever tells my child to "man up," because they will get an earful. A child is NOT a man...and why can't men cry, anyway? I think your dh overstepped his "coach" boundaries and got into "parenting" territory.

Edited October 19, 2010 by mo2

[Gwenhwyfar]

so how exactly is it that a person just 'quits' - or doesn't - cry when that's how they feel?

 

i've been in situations where i've actually dug my nails into my skin hard enough to draw blood in an attempt at keeping myself from showing tears - and it didn't work.

 

guess i just wonder because i see some people saying that their kids are just "not allowed" to cry in some situations - or implying that crying shouldn't happen here, there, etc.

[TXMary2]

As a mom of boys who play baseball I feel comfortable saying, "There is no crying in baseball!"

 

I think what your DH said to the boy is fine. At 11-12 years old kids should not be crying because they struck out. T-ball is when you get to cry and that is where you learn.

 

I think - and this is obviously just my opinion- that today's society of "everybody is great and special" has caused this type of thing. Everyone gets a ribbon, a trophy - "we're all winners" is a bad thing. Competition is healthy and normal and I think there would be a lot less crying if kids were allowed to play that out.

[pdalley]

I don't have a child like that. I do have a sensitive, ADD middle daughter who *does* sometimes overreact in a dramatic way. I *am* firm with her at those times. But, I don't demean her and I think telling a child that they need to "man up" is demeaning.

 

 

We have never told our boys to 'man up' in those words. I used those words because of what was being discussed. We have told them they needed to get a hold of themselves or to control themselves. They also know why. I've already had one kid charged with assault for a manifestation of his disability when in the school system. I was lucky to get an juv probation officer who understood autism. I don't believe we'd get that lucky again.

 

I'd rather my kid feel a little demeaned for a minute than to wind up in jail.

 

Mileage varies.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Well, glad you haven't been to my house. My oldest had to fight back tears in the months before his black belt test when the instructor was riding him. He was 15 at the time. Even though he knew in his head that this was mental conditioning for the test, it was still very difficult for him and he had great difficulty controlling his emotions. I found that around 13 (or sooner for some boys), those hormones made them very emotional.

 

Back to the original situation, I am impressed with the other boys for the way they attempted to console him. Too often, a less-than-appropriate emotional response brings on a bit of harassment as well as ostracizing the emotional kid. I guess we didn't see it in the past (or chose not to see it in the past) because of this type of reaction from others. Any crying in public was seen as sissy behavior and deserved the harshest of punishment (basically social banishment.) To tell you the truth, I am glad to see it being dealt with in a more appropriate manner. Let the kid have the feelings and help them learn to deal with it. In my kids, the reaction from the adult who told him to man-up may have stopped the crying, but my kids would have learned to avoid that person at all costs.

 

Just my .02.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think if kids aren't trained and guided that it is much harder for them to learn how to handle themselves no matter what the behavior is. It isn't impossible to learn when they are older just more difficult.

 

So, they have to have it mastered at 12 when their bodies are surging with hormones? It's a process and it takes time. C'mon. Telling a kid to 'man-up' isn't guidance, it is intolerance.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

 

When my dh (an assistant coach) saw what was going on, he went over to the kid and pretty much told him to man up and get over it.

 

Everyone is assuming that this is a direct quote. Is it?

 

Honestly, though, it wouldn't bother me if a coach said this to one of my boys if he'd been crying for over five minutes. Boys need to learn to control their emotions. Girls do too. There's a time and a place for crying. Five minutes after a (perceived) bad call by an ump is not the time or place. Seriously, get over it and move on.

 

(PS...Control their emotions, not stuff, suppress, or ignore.)

[Daisy]

So much here to talk about...

 

Crying can happen because of sadness, disappointment, frustration, rage (my specialty as a kid - DW doesn't even know that - sshhhh!), stress, anxiety, happiness/exhiliration, surprise, I'm sure there's more...both boys and girls have these emotions.

 

Crying can be a healthy stress release, particularly after a 'tense' round at the plate.

 

Boys go soft? I've seen a 9 yr old boy cry for being relentlessly teased, just before giving the bully a royal snotty bloody nose (richly deserved, mind you)...he didn't look too soft to me...

 

I've seen countless posts here that included declarations of 'I'm crying as I type...'

 

I've coached sports teams where frustration in a kid built to the point of crying, requiring me to 'pull' the player till he could calm down and get his head back in the game...he wasn't whining, weeping, or complaining...he was a kid, and the situation got a little overwhelming. I think that is normal...

 

Just putting it out there, FWIW, there's nothing wrong with crying...whining, on the other hand...

 

:iagree:

[keptwoman]

so how exactly is it that a person just 'quits' - or doesn't - cry when that's how they feel?

 

i've been in situations where i've actually dug my nails into my skin hard enough to draw blood in an attempt at keeping myself from showing tears - and it didn't work.

 

guess i just wonder because i see some people saying that their kids are just "not allowed" to cry in some situations - or implying that crying shouldn't happen here, there, etc.

It is possible, but it takes a lot of practice. I had a few years of many personal losses and lots of crying, I got a bit cried out and I can control it now. However, on the whole I don't believe that holding in emotions is healthy. Crying is an enormous stress relief and if we want to and don't, we just become a great big ball of tension.

 

I don't believe that telling boys that it's unmanly to cry is healthy in any way, shape or form. As an adult there is a time and a place, but a kid still needs to learn that.

 

Back to the original situation, I am impressed with the other boys for the way they attempted to console him. Too often, a less-than-appropriate emotional response brings on a bit of harassment as well as ostracizing the emotional kid. I guess we didn't see it in the past (or chose not to see it in the past) because of this type of reaction from others. Any crying in public was seen as sissy behavior and deserved the harshest of punishment (basically social banishment.) To tell you the truth, I am glad to see it being dealt with in a more appropriate manner. Let the kid have the feelings and help them learn to deal with it. In my kids, the reaction from the adult who told him to man-up may have stopped the crying, but my kids would have learned to avoid that person at all costs.

 

Just my .02.

I agree.

[Murphy101]

Who said that was the right response? No one. That is the response from a flaming gay on TV (None of the gay guys I know actually talk like that). I agree they have to learn, but suck it up and man up is a cold heartless way to teach a person and what it DOES teach them is everything we spend the rest of our marriages trying to UNteach our husbands.

 

My point was that boy or girl, no they do not get to just use PMS or the equal to it as an excuse to act inappropriately.

 

And personally, I'm not having to unteach these things with my husband. He has never had a problem conveying his emotions to me.

 

Nobody is debating that. The only debate is in the HOW one gets there. By being humiliated in front of one's teammates v. being removed from the situation to calm down.

 

See now, I think there's something wrong with society if our children, male or female, are getting that fragile. I don't think anything he said was humiliating in the least and I didn't get the impression from the OP that his manner was debasing.

 

Well, no offense, but it doesn't sound like you're letting them do that if they aren't "allowed" to cry. How is that OWNING your emotions?

 

And, actually, it's up to the adults around them to let them know that emotions are okay, and normal, and that their emotions ARE theirs.

 

First off, not being permited to publicly display something is not the determining factor in whether it is mine or not. Sure they can cry. In private or at home. But no, they don't to emotionally manipulate those around them because of a lack of self control or consideration for the situation.

 

Second, I'll state up front that I do not think that all emotions are okay just because they exist. Unjust anger, jealousy, envy, selfishness and many other emotions are not given much patience in my home. They are called on the mat so to speak fairly quickly for what they are and we don't give them much indulgence. Are they normal? Sure. Are they appropriate or acceptable? Nope.

 

I do believe those emotions are just as damaging as lashing out in physical anger. They might be worse. When indulged, they hurt relationships, rational perspective, and the character of the person feeling them.

 

But you've got to be kidding me if you seriously think it's okay to tell a kid he's "not allowed" to cry because YOU don't think it's worth being upset

over or to control that child's emotions. They are HIS emotions!!!

 

No I'm not kidding. Sure he can cry. No, it is not appropriate for him to inflict his mood swing on those around him. You keep saying they are HIS emotions. Okay. Then he needs to have some self control over his emotions same as over his thoughts. He can have them. Sure. But no, it is not appropriate to spew them whenever the mood strikes.

 

I'm flabbergasted. It's an EMOTION, not a BEHAVIOR. Sometimes you just can't help it if you cry. Even in front of other people. When did that become a crime for anybody? And for a kid no less? Wow. That's so callous!

 

Now see you are exaggerating. No one has said it was a crime or in any way even a punishable offense.

 

But it IS tied to behavior. By all means, this is a 12 year old boy who is in training for adulthood and thus needs to be shown what is appropriate and how to cope. But he was not just crying. He was whining. He was seeking

sympathy he didn't deserve. (he made the error, not the ump). He was not owning up to his own mistake.

 

I didn't get the impression a couple of sniffles and tears were the issue here.

 

I got the impression this kid was having himself a cozy little melt down and

the coach stepped in and simply set perspectives straight.

 

If my boy or girl were shedding a couple tears, I'd hand them a tissue, tell them to take some deep breathes to get over it and let it go. If I saw what the OP described? The entire team huddled around consoling and oh the drama? Oh no. I'd call them on the mat for that. Then give them a tissue and tell them to take some deep breathes and move on.

 

ETA: And you know I like you, Martha lol (so I hope we can still be friends) but this topic is getting to me, I don't think it's right to punish a kid for showing emotion if they aren't doing it in a way that hurts others!

 

Sure we can be friends.:D. I don't need to have all my friends agree with me on everything. Or even anything.;)

 

I guess I don't see how telling a kid who is plenty old enough to learn these

things to put a cap on it because his gripe isn't legit and move on already is a punishment.:001_huh: honestly. I didn't see anything even slightly humiliating or punishing in what the OP's dh said.:confused:

 

So, neither you nor your daughters have gotten overemotional and then in the next few days realized why? You don't lose patience with your kids and get harsh and then a few days later apologize because you realize you had PMS? You never were overdemanding or short because you had PMS and taken it out on your family?

 

Well, I guess I'm the only one, then.

 

Nope. I'm called on it and so is my dd (or my sons or dh for that matter).

 

It may not sound polite but if I'm getting ahem. Witchy. My dh will call me on it. Right in front of the kids even. He is pretty nice about it. "Honey! Really? I think you need a nap. Or some chocolate. Or something stronger even."

 

And yes. I have to "man up" and take a look at myself at that moment and ask myself if he is right, take a deep breath and do my best to adjust my attitude. Dang it.

 

Or dh will be having a mood swing (don't you menact like you don't PMS either. Every woman knows you do) and I'll quietly ask if he needs help removing that pickle from his bum (movie reference) or something to eat or a skillet to the head or what? And dh has to man up at that moment and ask himself if he is being a jerk. And take a deep breath and adjust his attitude as best he can.

 

Honestly? I'm a bit horrified that other families don't do this? :001_huh: seriously? Your family just tolerates each of you being a moody mess until you hopefully snap out of it on your own? Eventually? Maybe even days later?

 

Maybe it's because there are so many of us here? But that would so not work well here. Sure we extend some grace for hormones or stress or exhaustion or whatever. But no, we call each other on it pretty quick and it is expected that the person called on the mat will accept it, even if they have a valid reason. We give them a few minutes to pull themselves together and then we move on. No one is humiliated or punished. But no, we don't just endure the mood swings either.

 

Hmm. Seriously? Now I'm the one stunned. Sure we have those mood swings, but it never occurred to anyone here that we had to just suffer through it! LOL I mean once you have it pointed out to you that you are being an irrational moody PITA, in a more loving manner of course, don't you have an obligation to acknowledge that and take a few minutes to get it together as best you can? Are y'all telling me that our family is the only one that has phrases developed just for these occasions to politely or humorously call out this problem? Or are we the only ones that expect a change to result because of it?

[Daisy]

I don't have a problem with my children crying unless they are using it as a means to manipulate those around them. Oh, and I like to be the one who decides that is or is not happening.

 

Geez, don't you think the kid was embarrassed enough at the idea of crying in front of his buddies? I would have given the kid some privacy. Privately told him that he couldn't blame the umpire. Privately told him it was going to be okay and no one was disappointed in HIM. And publicly I would have high-fived his team mates for being TEAM players who stuck by their mate and showed him encouragement.

 

When anyone in our family is emotional or moody to the point of projecting their emotions onto others around them, they need to be alone. That's the response in our house. Privacy to regroup. And frankly being alone is the ONLY thing that is going to work in our home. Telling someone to just stop experiencing an emotion just doesn't work. As a matter of fact, it is likely to backfire in my house.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Daisy

[Mrs Mungo]

Everyone is assuming that this is a direct quote. Is it?

 

Honestly, though, it wouldn't bother me if a coach said this to one of my boys if he'd been crying for over five minutes. Boys need to learn to control their emotions. Girls do too. There's a time and a place for crying. Five minutes after a (perceived) bad call by an ump is not the time or place. Seriously, get over it and move on.

 

(PS...Control their emotions, not stuff, suppress, or ignore.)

 

Good question. Is it a quote? Because I do think telling someone to man up is demeaning.

 

Again, I agree that boys and girls, men and women need to learn to have some self-control.

 

I also agree with Daisy that privacy is sometimes required to get back in control of one's emotions.

 

What's *wrong* with saying "I understand you're upset, but we need to move on. Go to the bathroom, wash your face, calm down." That's not coddling, that's not encouraging out of control behavior.

[Cricket]

Everyone is assuming that this is a direct quote. Is it?

 

Honestly, though, it wouldn't bother me if a coach said this to one of my boys if he'd been crying for over five minutes. Boys need to learn to control their emotions. Girls do too. There's a time and a place for crying. Five minutes after a (perceived) bad call by an ump is not the time or place. Seriously, get over it and move on.

 

(PS...Control their emotions, not stuff, suppress, or ignore.)

 

I didn't realize the phrase "man up" was so emotionally charged. :001_smile: If I remember accurately, it was more like "be a man and own up to it--you can't blame the umpire if you didn't swing"--which some may find even more offensive. It was a response to the anger at the umpire and the attitude of placing blame than the crying. And maybe the weirdest thing is that all the kids on the teams that my dh has coached like dh the best out of all the coaches. I think it is partly because he treats them like they are older rather than younger. He is also very encouraging and takes the time to teach them the proper way to do things instead of "nice try---next batter!"

 

I guess what struck me was how some kids seem to make things into big emotional moments when they aren't. I read some article a while back about how everything nowadays has to be the most, best, greatest, worst, thrilling, etc. We can't just *be*. Usually life is lots of boring stuff punctuated by occasional emotional highs and lows. I think emotions can be addicting. I've never understood shows like Big Brother. Too much made-up emotional drama for me!

[Murphy101]

I didn't realize the phrase "man up" was so emotionally charged. :001_smile: If I remember accurately, it was more like "be a man and own up to it--you can't blame the umpire if you didn't swing"--which some may find even more offensive. It was a response to the anger at the umpire and the attitude of placing blame than the crying.

 

:iagree::001_huh:

That's exactly how I read it too!

[Mama Geek]

So, they have to have it mastered at 12 when their bodies are surging with hormones? It's a process and it takes time. C'mon. Telling a kid to 'man-up' isn't guidance, it is intolerance.

 

It is training and guidance. For a coach to tell a kid enough is enough and it is time to pull yourself together.

 

Intolerance would have been to throw him off the team for it.

[msjones]

I think it depends almost entirely on the relationship the boy has with the coach. If he's been coaching the boy for years, knows him well, and the boy trusts him, this may have been a great way to deal with the crying.

 

If the coach hardly knows the boy, I'd say that was probably pushing it.

 

Wouldn't most of you agree that you have girlfriends who can 'dress you down' -- and you appreciate it. But I imagine most of us also have friends from whom that type of criticism would not be welcome at all. I think the same is true with coaches and teachers. The relationship is key.

 

Also, I agree with lots of previous posters that this is indeed part of the culture of baseball. The batter is up there on display, and he needs to learn to cope with that pressure and carry on as a team member even when he strikes out. If that's too hard for him by age 12, it might be worth looking into a different sport. My son had to.

[fairfarmhand]

Good question. Is it a quote? Because I do think telling someone to man up is demeaning.

 

Again, I agree that boys and girls, men and women need to learn to have some self-control.

 

I also agree with Daisy that privacy is sometimes required to get back in control of one's emotions.

 

What's *wrong* with saying "I understand you're upset, but we need to move on. Go to the bathroom, wash your face, calm down." That's not coddling, that's not encouraging out of control behavior.

 

 

I think you are right on Mrs. Mungo.

 

And it seems to me (pardon me if I am perceiving incorrectly, I am a bit distracted here) that many are operating on the assumption that people who do not cry are ignoring their feelings and turning into a psychological mess.

 

I have a dh who seldom cries; that does not mean that later he lashes out in anger at the family. It does not mean he does not feel grief, anger or frustration. It does mean that he gets out on a tractor alone at a later date and processes his feelings later. I don't know how he manages to forestall it, but he is very able to hold it together till he has some privacy. It is just a different way of operating and there is nothing wrong with it. As a matter of fact, I need him to be like that. I lean on him in stressful times and many times he's told me, "hey, we're all upset right now, but we can't STOP the world because of it. Take a deep breath, take 5 minutes and then take care of business." And later on late at night he will hold me while I fall to pieces.

 

Teaching kids that there is a time and place for emotional outbursts is appropriate.

[Crissy]

So much here to talk about...

 

Crying can happen because of sadness, disappointment, frustration, rage (my specialty as a kid - DW doesn't even know that - sshhhh!), stress, anxiety, happiness/exhiliration, surprise, I'm sure there's more...both boys and girls have these emotions.

 

Crying can be a healthy stress release, particularly after a 'tense' round at the plate.

 

Boys go soft? I've seen a 9 yr old boy cry for being relentlessly teased, just before giving the bully a royal snotty bloody nose (richly deserved, mind you)...he didn't look too soft to me...

 

I've seen countless posts here that included declarations of 'I'm crying as I type...'

 

I've coached sports teams where frustration in a kid built to the point of crying, requiring me to 'pull' the player till he could calm down and get his head back in the game...he wasn't whining, weeping, or complaining...he was a kid, and the situation got a little overwhelming. I think that is normal...

 

Just putting it out there, FWIW, there's nothing wrong with crying...whining, on the other hand...

 

:hurray:

[NanceXToo]

Also, I'm trying to figure out... she said she was at her son's game. And that her husband "who is an assistant coach" went and talked to the boy when he saw what was going on...

 

but is he THIS boy/team's assistant coach? Or just an assistant coach in general, for another team, who thought he'd help out here? I could be way off but because she said "an assistant coach" instead of "the assistant coach" I got the impression for some reason he's not the coach for this team?

[Oak Knoll Mom]

It is training and guidance. For a coach to tell a kid enough is enough and it is time to pull yourself together.

 

Intolerance would have been to throw him off the team for it.

 

:iagree:

[Parrothead]

It's a proven fact that women are better managers and better workers because of their ability to NOT eat everyone alive.

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

Please. Like I said above, women are proven to be better workers and better managers because of their ability to form relationships and manage in a side position, not a top down. And equating a grown up to a child in this instance doesn't make for a great argument. An adult has years on learning how to better control their emotions, an 11 year old boy none. He's just hitting puberty.

I have not read all the way through yet. If someone has already asked you for it, I apologize. Would you please list the studies and other sources for the bolded statement.

[Parrothead]

 

They have to learn to own their emotions and cope appropriately. They are not going to always do so because they are learning and growing. And it's up to the adults around them to let them know when it isn't appropriate for them to inflict their mood swings on whoever happens to be in their vicinity.

I think it is important for both boys and girls to learn this. I do not agree with the recent thinking that a girl/woman is allowed to wallow in PMS and inflict it on the other people in her life.

[justamouse]

I have not read all the way through yet. If someone has already asked you for it, I apologize. Would you please list the studies and other sources for the bolded statement.

 

I did. Not a problem. ;)

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2117227&postcount=70

Edited October 19, 2010 by justamouse

[Barry Goldwater]

lemme find it

 

wait, first I found this

 

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/12/5-career-tips-women-should-ignore/

 

She's a multimillionare, I think she's leading just fine, tears and all, though she just married a farmer and watched her business launch out in a anew direction. Oh, and she's an aspie and blogs at length about how she's gotten so far dealing with aspie difficulties.

 

this applies:

 

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/13/you-should-lead-from-the-middle/

 

And here's the one

 

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_47/b3708145.htm

 

 

Ah! Thanks...off to read...

[justamouse]

My point was that boy or girl, no they do not get to just use PMS or the equal to it as an excuse to act inappropriately.

 

Hmm. Seriously? Now I'm the one stunned. Sure we have those mood swings, but it never occurred to anyone here that we had to just suffer through it! LOL I mean once you have it pointed out to you that you are being an irrational moody PITA, in a more loving manner of course, don't you have an obligation to acknowledge that and take a few minutes to get it together as best you can? Are y'all telling me that our family is the only one that has phrases developed just for these occasions to politely or humorously call out this problem? Or are we the only ones that expect a change to result because of it?

 

Sadly, I know many women who suffer huge communication problems with their mates because of the 'man up' philosophy. So, you're fortunate it's not you.

 

BUT here you say it--yes, we own up to them, yes, we acknowledge them and are told, in a loving manner. Not "Man up." which is sexist and demeaning.

[Parrothead]

 

Twelve is when young men AND women need to learn how to control emotions and not be controlled by them. And good job on the other kids for being kind and understanding.

How would you go about doing this?

 

So, neither you nor your daughters have gotten overemotional and then in the next few days realized why? You don't lose patience with your kids and get harsh and then a few days later apologize because you realize you had PMS? You never were overdemanding or short because you had PMS and taken it out on your family?

 

Well, I guess I'm the only one, then.

Just pointing out that in the workforce losing patience and being harsh to coworkers, employers or customers probably would get one fired.

lemme find it

 

wait, first I found this

 

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/01/12/5-career-tips-women-should-ignore/

 

She's a multimillionare, I think she's leading just fine, tears and all, though she just married a farmer and watched her business launch out in a anew direction. Oh, and she's an aspie and blogs at length about how she's gotten so far dealing with aspie difficulties.

 

this applies:

 

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2010/01/13/you-should-lead-from-the-middle/

 

And here's the one

 

http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_47/b3708145.htm

Your first two are blogs and hence opinion pieces. The last one is only one study. Nothing conclusive can be determined with one study. It also says:

men sometimes earned higher marks in some critical areas, such as strategic ability and technical analysis.

[Parrothead]

:iagree: Crying is okay. I hope no one ever tells my child to "man up," because they will get an earful. A child is NOT a man...and why can't men cry, anyway? I think your dh overstepped his "coach" boundaries and got into "parenting" territory.

There has to be a certain amount of discipline in an organized sports situation. Do you want your kid's coach to come to you to discipline every time your child needs discipline during practice or a game?

 

My point was that boy or girl, no they do not get to just use PMS or the equal to it as an excuse to act inappropriately.

 

And personally, I'm not having to unteach these things with my husband. He has never had a problem conveying his emotions to me.

 

 

 

See now, I think there's something wrong with society if our children, male or female, are getting that fragile. I don't think anything he said was humiliating in the least and I didn't get the impression from the OP that his manner was debasing.

 

 

 

First off, not being permited to publicly display something is not the determining factor in whether it is mine or not. Sure they can cry. In private or at home. But no, they don't to emotionally manipulate those around them because of a lack of self control or consideration for the situation.

 

Second, I'll state up front that I do not think that all emotions are okay just because they exist. Unjust anger, jealousy, envy, selfishness and many other emotions are not given much patience in my home. They are called on the mat so to speak fairly quickly for what they are and we don't give them much indulgence. Are they normal? Sure. Are they appropriate or acceptable? Nope.

 

I do believe those emotions are just as damaging as lashing out in physical anger. They might be worse. When indulged, they hurt relationships, rational perspective, and the character of the person feeling them.

:iagree: with the above and every thing else you posted in that post.

 

What's *wrong* with saying "I understand you're upset, but we need to move on. Go to the bathroom, wash your face, calm down." That's not coddling, that's not encouraging out of control behavior.

Nothing wrong with it. But it is a bit wordy. To me telling a young man to man up or me telling my dd to suck it up are saying "I understand you're upset, but we need to move on. Go to the bathroom, wash your face, calm down."

I didn't realize the phrase "man up" was so emotionally charged. :001_smile: If I remember accurately, it was more like "be a man and own up to it--you can't blame the umpire if you didn't swing"--

This is how I see the phrase.

[JoJosMom]

After reading the thread, I went back and read the OP. I don't see a problem with the OP's husband forthrightly ending the drama. Honest emotion is one thing; theater quite another. I mean, how long did he really need to get over striking out?

 

That said, when my my little drama queen goes overboard, she gets "Suck it up, Buttercup." I would NEVER tell her to man up. After all, she's known since she was two years old that "Girls rule, boys drool!" :p

[Gwenhwyfar]

i've noticed a few people talking about five minutes as if it was a HUGE amount of time... five minutes seems pretty darn short to me.

[Barry Goldwater]

Ah! Thanks...off to read...

 

Interesting Business Week piece...I remember seeing studies similar to these in management training classes, etc. While the studies (I believe) have some statistical control issues, they do bring up a worthwhile point. People skills, collaborative approaches, and 'connectedness' (dare I say somewhat feminine qualities) play an important role in effective people management.

 

I'm still in the camp that a 12 yr old boy can cry if he needs to...whining about the situation is a different matter, and it seems the DH/Assnt coach tried to handle that, but perhaps not as delicately as some would prefer...for a 12 yr old...

 

I'm glad to hear that his teammates were so supportive...it is a team after all...you're supposed to stick together through thick & thin.

[Parrothead]

... I lean on him in stressful times and many times he's told me, "hey, we're all upset right now, but we can't STOP the world because of it. Take a deep breath, take 5 minutes and then take care of business." And later on late at night he will hold me while I fall to pieces.

 

Teaching kids that there is a time and place for emotional outbursts is appropriate.

I love the bolded.

 

 

That said, when my my little drama queen goes overboard, she gets "Suck it up, Buttercup." I would NEVER tell her to man up. After all, she's known since she was two years old that "Girls rule, boys drool!" :p

I can't tell mine to man up for the same reason. But there has been many a time I've had to tell her to suck it up, Buttercup.

 

I'll freely admit it might be because I don't have a boy child that I don't see "man up" as demeaning. I don't think it is demeaning to tell dd to suck it up.

 

Oh, and for the record, I think a 12-year old, either boy or girl, can cry tears of frustration. But for just a very short amount of time then they need to get over it and get back to the business at hand no matter if that business is a sport or school work or doing chores.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Parrothead