Strange moral dilemma for me regarding my professor. (heavy CC)

[*********]

Ok, so I'm very sensitive about this subject. So if you're opinion is something like 'lady, you've gone off the deep end, and need help', maybe don't post, ok? :D

 

I haven't been in school for eight years. The last time I was, I wasn't a born again Christian. I don't remember any of my professors in the past using language that offended me at the time.

 

I'm back in school, and I have a professor who blasphemes. She regularly says 'Oh my G-d', or says 'G-d' in a way that is not at all religious, iykwim. She hasn't just 'slipped' and said it once; it's a regular part of her vocabulary.

 

There is pretty much nothing I hate hearing worse than blasphemy. I'd rather if she used other four letter curse words than blaspheme. Ok, maybe an f-bomb would get the same reaction from me, but that's about it.

 

Here's my dilemma. I'm paying to go to this class. Which essentially means, I'm paying to listen to this woman blaspheme. If I was watching a movie or tv show and someone blasphemed, I'd turn it off/walk out/throw it away. Which is why I watch almost no tv or movies. If I'm listening to a radio program and someone blasphemes, I turn it off, and make a mental note not to listen to that program again.

 

As you can see, I'm very sensitive to it. I feel the Bible instructs us to be.

 

So what do I do? And since I'm going to a community college (as opposed to a private Christian college or something), I have a feeling this won't be the last time I encounter this. I'm praying about it, but I'm very conflicted. I mean, I have lots of family members who blaspheme, but I still visit them. I guess the difference here is that I'm PAYING for this woman's services, if you will, and therefore putting my 'approval' on it in a way.

 

Any advice? Should I talk to the prof? Someone else at the college? I can't find any code of conduct for instructors or anything.

 

Be nice; I'm already feeling a little silly about it, but it's really bothering me.

 

-Bethany (who's a little nervous to hit submit)

[Barb_]

Gently said, I'm afraid you're going to have to be the one to adjust in this situation. Your only other option is to explain it to her as kindly as you can, but I can't imagine how that could be done without putting her on the defensive. You could drop the class, but I know that isn't an ideal option either. Her intentions aren't to offend anyone, especially not to the extent that you are taking it, so the fact that you are paying for the class really doesn't enter into things. I'm sure we all have done or said deeply offensive things in the past without realizing it. Cultures are so different from one another in the US. She is using the phrase as a verbal tick, nothing more. Does it help to think of it that way rather than something she is doing to you?

Barb

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

I would talk to the professor. See if she would be willing to try to watch her tongue better. (ya never know, she might... but no promises) Otherwise, is it possible to transfer to another class? Or is she the only option?

[*********]

Gently said, I'm afraid you're going to have to be the one to adjust in this situation. Your only other option is to explain it to her as kindly as you can, but I can't imagine how that could be done without putting her on the defensive. You could drop the class, but I know that isn't an ideal option either. Her intentions aren't to offend anyone, especially not to the extent that you are taking it, so the fact that you are paying for the class really doesn't enter into things. I'm sure we all have done or said deeply offensive things in the past without realizing it. Cultures are so different from one another in the US. She is using the phrase as a verbal tick, nothing more. Does it help to think of it that way rather than something she is doing to you?

Barb

 

Honestly Barb, this is kinda what I figured.

 

I don't think of it as something she's doing to me. She's doing it to God, for lack of a better term. And that is what I find offensive.

 

I know I could drop the class, but really, I imagine there's a very good chance I could run into this with the next prof, too. In fact, with how much I hear people blaspheme just in the general public, I would venture to guess that many of my instructors may do this.

 

So I guess really I need to decide if community college is the right fit for me and my beliefs. I don't know.

[Remudamom]

We've got a neighbor who does this. His remarks are literally "^&$^ (* &(&(& and then %#( said ^#! so I said *%%( &%$ )(_*&%.

 

He's an idiot. I'd like to kick him in the %&^$*.

You're probably just going to have to put up with it.

[Allearia]

I am not a Christian and can see myself saying things like that (not constantly though!) without even thinking. If I was talking with someone and knew it bothered them I would definitely do my best not to say it. Hopefully if you explain it to the teacher she will be OK with trying to avoid that language and it may make her more aware in the future that it offends some people. Just reading your post will make me personally more aware.

[*********]

I am not a Christian and can see myself saying things like that (not constantly though!) without even thinking. If I was talking with someone and knew it bothered them I would definitely do my best not to say it. Hopefully if you explain it to the teacher she will be OK with trying to avoid that language and it may make her more aware in the future that it offends some people. Just reading your post will make me personally more aware.

 

You're sweet. Thank you. :)

[Lindy]

Sounds like it's a hard habit for her to break. If you can't do anything about it, just pray for her and see what happens. Maybe even mention it to her...as in "why do you always say, Oh my G--?" Sometimes a person just needs their bad habit pointed out in a nice way.

 

When I worked as a graphic designer for a local ad agency, the copywriter/owner (ie, my boss) would write great ads. But his personal language was horrible--four letter words at the end of every sentences! One day I had had enough and said something along the lines of "you'd think with all your creativity with the written word you would be able to speak with a more intelligent vocabulary."

 

Amazingly I kept my job and he changed his language (and even thanked me for the prompt). :001_smile:

[Heatherwith4]

Consider this: she isn't trying to offend you, and she's probably not purposely trying to disrespect God. Also, you're paying her to teach you, not to speak exactly how you want her to. (And I say that gently. I don't think you're crazy! I don't like to hear God's name used that way, either.)

[tex-mex]

Gently said, I'm afraid you're going to have to be the one to adjust in this situation. Your only other option is to explain it to her as kindly as you can, but I can't imagine how that could be done without putting her on the defensive. You could drop the class, but I know that isn't an ideal option either.

:iagree:

(Treading lightly... but also being honest.)

 

I do think you have to be willing to be open to other people's viewpoints while attending a public institution. Obviously, the prof has offended you. But to ask she watch her language with the G-d word? Not that big of a deal. You will have other profs who will do worse behavior, IMO.

 

As a fellow Christian to another -- you may need to ask yourself what is the underlying reason you are allowing this "button" to manifest that causes the offense? God hears His name sullied daily by many on our planet and yet He still loves them. Is there a religious moral here where you are placing yourself on a pedestal higher than the prof? (Sorry. No offense meant. Just psychoanalysis. ;)) Is it the fact you are paying for the education and sitting thru this offense? Could you try changing classes? Or be working on this issue and try to get to know the prof to change your mindset on her language? I guess I'm not too sympathetic and I apologize. But you can overcome this obstacle -- but the ball is in your court only if you are willing to be more openminded and not legalistic from a religious POV. My apologies.

[ktgrok]

It sounds like your problem isn't that she says it and offends you, because you can handle that. Your problem is if it is ethical to pay her to do this. I say that you stay in the class, and at the end of the class write on the professor evaluation your concerns. This way it is addressed, and hopefully will change her behavior for the better, and you still get the education you need. I think that is what Jesus would do.

 

I personally don't think that saying OMG has anything to do with the commandment not to take the Lord's name in vain, but I can see how it would make you uncomfortable.

[regentrude]

She does not do it to offend you - in fact, most people who use these phrases are not even aware that some people find this offensive.

You could talk to her, but I am pretty sure that this won't help since she is not doing it consciously; unless she pays extreme attention she will use it again since it is part of her usual speech.

I suggest you get used to the fact that not everybody shares your religious views and that the world is made up of very different people. If you can absolutely not tolerate it, you will have no choice but to sequester yourself in an environment of people who think exactly like you - which means you should probably choose a Christian college.

The fact that you are paying for the class has nothing to do with it: paying for a class does not mean you have to like, or condone, everything your instructor says. You may not even have to agree with your instructor. OTOH, as a paying student you can demand a quality education, but you will probably not have a leg to stand on demanding of a CC professor to accommodate you in this respect. Now if she would make intentional anti-christian comments in order to upset you, that would be different... but this way of speech is used by many people and does not mean an intentional insult.

[Twinmom]

You are not the only one offended by that kind of speech. It bothers me a lot, but it really sends my DH over the top. He would have a hard time staying in that class. However, I agree with the previous posters who said you'll probably just have to deal with it or go to school elsewhere. These types of comments are so prevalent in our society that any complaints are likely to fall on deaf ears.

 

My advice to him would be to use this as an opportunity to pray for the lady. Every time she utters an offensive phrase, say a short prayer that God will bless her, that He will help her recognize this as offensive to Him, that He would change her heart in some way and that she would have an encounter with Him as the God of the Universe and not just as a catch-phrase. Who knows, maybe that's why you are there?! Think of this as an opportunity to minister through prayer and see where God takes it.

 

So sorry...

[Tap]

I would send her a very professional, non-cc letter. I would ask her to please consider the feelings of her students and to refrain from comments like "xyz" during class time. Mention that it is very, very offensive in your faith and akin to what others may think of racist terms or bold cursing. Give her specific examples. Be nice. Be kind. Don't use biblical quotes (they don't go over well in the secular world). I would probably say something like..."if you are interested in the Biblical verses that apply please see...xyzy". That way she knows you are serious but not forcing it on her IYKWIM. Let her know that you see it as her personal choice to consider this request, but that if she is unwilling/unable to comply that you will no longer be taking her classes. Let her know that this only hurts yourself, and isn't a threat towards her, but a sincere request from someone who does care if those terms are used. I would let her know that you enjoy the content of her classes and are learning a lot but would really appreciate the consideration of your faith and other's faiths as well.

 

Take this class as an opportunity to show her through kindness that you, and others take offence to the comments. Give her the chance to make a change. If she doesn't make the effort, then you know for the future, that you would not like her lectures, and don't take them.

 

If you have a secular friend, I would ask them to read it before you pass it off. If she feels like you are coming to her as an articulate Christian adult, who is simply offended....she may respond better than a letter full of Christian phrases/quotes which she may not agree with. If she doesn't agree with your particular faith, she may not try as hard to respect it.

[kamom]

I have a feeling if you pointed it out to her in a humble, gracious manner, maybe mention that it distracts from what she's teaching?, that it would be taken well. You have to have a good attitude and alot of love!

[edithcrawley]

I honestly wouldn't mention it to her, it might cause her to get on the defensive and she might not view you well, which could then in turn hurt your grade if you have any subjective assignments in the class. I've had profs say all sorts of words in class, from blasphemy, the F word, anything you can really think of. If you have a hard time focusing on what they're saying due to all the blasphemy, maybe a CC isn't the right place for you. Before you make any decisions like changing schools, you might want to consider costs first. CC is pretty cheap compared to other places, and you won't have to worry about credits transferring. Is not hearing the language important enough to you that you'll risk all your credits you've taken so far? Just some things to think about :)

[Corraleno]

I think if you were paying a private tutor who was using language that offended you, you would have the right to ask them to not speak that way in front of you. But since this is a CC class, I assume there are lots of other people who are also paying for the course, who may not find it offensive at all. If each person in the course asked the professor to change one thing that offended them, then it would get out of hand, kwim? I don't think the fact that you paid for the course in any way means you are condoning it. If the professor is not Christian (or is Christian but doesn't consider what she says to be blasphemous) then her behavior reflects her own beliefs, and I don't think you need to take responsibility for "correcting" it just because you are in the class. I'm not sure that sounded the way I meant it. I mean, I don't think you have a Christian duty to correct the behavior of a non-Christian (or different-believing Christian) just because you are in their presence a few hours/wk, even if you are paying to be there.

 

FWIW, my mother and my sister's family are all evangelical Christians, and they say "Oh my God" all the time; they don't consider that blasphemous. They object to "I swear to God" and of course anything like "God d*mn," but they don't consider "oh my God' to be offensive.

 

Jackie

[*********]

I do think you have to be willing to be open to other people's viewpoints while attending a public institution. Obviously, the prof has offended you. But to ask she watch her language with the G-d word? Not that big of a deal. You will have other profs who will do worse behavior, IMO.

 

I don't think that not enjoying listening to someone blaspheme has anything to do with being open to other people's viewpoints.

 

And I'm not so much offened by the prof. as confused about what I should do.

 

I'm sure I'll come up against this again, which is why I'm pondering how to react.

 

As a fellow Christian to another -- you may need to ask yourself what is the underlying reason you are allowing this "button" to manifest that causes the offense? God hears His name sullied daily by many on our planet and yet He still loves them. Is there a religious moral here where you are placing yourself on a pedestal higher than the prof? (Sorry. No offense meant. Just psychoanalysis. ;)).

 

No; if Paul was the chief of sinners, then I'm second in command. I don't think myself better than anyone. Ever. I don't deserve God's mercy at all. If he threw me into the pits of hell today, I'd deserve that, and worse. Only by his grace am I saved, and that not of myself, it is a gift of God.

 

Is it the fact you are paying for the education and sitting thru this offense?

 

Yes, this is what I'm struggling with.

 

Could you try changing classes? Or be working on this issue and try to get to know the prof to change your mindset on her language? I guess I'm not too sympathetic and I apologize. But you can overcome this obstacle -- but the ball is in your court only if you are willing to be more openminded and not legalistic from a religious POV. My apologies.

 

I appreciate your response. Maybe I wasn't clear in my OP. I don't look down on my prof, or think I'm better than her, or anything like that. She's a very smart lady, and a good teacher. My dilemma is that I'm PAYING for this class, which turns out to include blasphemy. I wouldn't pay to hear blasphemy in any other situation (for example, at a movie), so I'm wondering how this differs.

 

Also, I don't go around asking other people not to blaspheme. I don't ask my unsaved family members to 'watch their language' because it offends me. It's not my place. (Now, I may ask that they not teach my children certain words, but I believe that's different.) And no need to apolgize, I appreciate your honesty.

 

It sounds like your problem isn't that she says it and offends you, because you can handle that. Your problem is if it is ethical to pay her to do this.

 

This is it exactly.

 

I say that you stay in the class, and at the end of the class write on the professor evaluation your concerns. This way it is addressed, and hopefully will change her behavior for the better, and you still get the education you need. I think that is what Jesus would do.

 

This is what I initially thought I would do, but am not sure yet if it's what the Lord would have me do.

[*********]

I suggest you get used to the fact that not everybody shares your religious views and that the world is made up of very different people. If you can absolutely not tolerate it, you will have no choice but to sequester yourself in an environment of people who think exactly like you - which means you should probably choose a Christian college.

 

Thank you for the suggestion. :)

[Mama Geek]

Bethany,

There are people all over the place like this. I think we are called to live as Christ has taught us. Sometimes all this means is to live by example. When others see you living a faithful life to the best of your abilities it makes an impression on them. We are to live in the world and not be of the world.

 

I worked with a guy many years ago that was in really bad shape and he was not a believer. Most people I knew treated him pretty badly as well. He had some pretty bad anger issues. I took the time to sit and talk to him about God for a few hours. I don't think he accepted Christ at that time, but he appreciated the chance to learn and I hope and pray that he will one day accept Christ.

 

I would not drop the class if it were me.

[tex-mex]

Bethany,

There are people all over the place like this. I think we are called to live as Christ has taught us. Sometimes all this means is to live by example. When others see you living a faithful life to the best of your abilities it makes an impression on them. We are to live in the world and not be of the world.

 

I worked with a guy many years ago that was in really bad shape and he was not a believer. Most people I knew treated him pretty badly as well. He had some pretty bad anger issues. I took the time to sit and talk to him about God for a few hours. I don't think he accepted Christ at that time, but he appreciated the chance to learn and I hope and pray that he will one day accept Christ.

 

I would not drop the class if it were me.

Well stated. :iagree:

[Corraleno]

I would ask her to please consider the feelings of her students and to refrain from comments like "xyz" during class time. Mention that it is very, very offensive in your faith and akin to what others may think of racist terms or bold cursing.

I disagree with this. I think there is a huge difference between using racially offensive words and using words that may (or may not) be forbidden by someone else's religion. I don't think it's appropriate to insist that the professor speak in such a way as to avoid violating the commandments of a religion (or even a specific interpretation of a religion) that she doesn't even subscribe to. If a Muslim student asked the professor to please cover her head, because lack of a headcovering is offensive to her religion, would anyone here think the professor should start wearing a headcovering?

 

Jackie

[BeckyFL]

Sad, but this is how it is, and it actually can get much worse. Professors use the F word, talk about sex and pornography, belittle God, want you to read things that you are offended by, etc, etc. Using the word God will be seen as mild if you were to go talk to the college. They would probably find it amusing. We tried hard to be careful about what dual enrollment classes my kids enrolled in, but we still ran into things. When they graduated from high school, they were VERY excited to go to Christian colleges.

[*********]

I disagree with this. I think there is a huge difference between using racially offensive words and using words that may (or may not) be forbidden by someone else's religion. I don't think it's appropriate to insist that the professor speak in such a way as to avoid violating the commandments of a religion (or even a specific interpretation of a religion) that she doesn't even subscribe to. If a Muslim student asked the professor to please cover her head, because lack of a headcovering is offensive to her religion, would anyone here think the professor should start wearing a headcovering?

 

Jackie

 

Intersting example, seeing as I am a Christian who wears a headcovering.

 

I would never ask another woman to cover her head. That is between her and God.

 

I don't even want to ask the prof not to blaspheme. That is between her and God.

 

I just am not sure that I should be paying to attend a class where the professor blasphemes. It is about MY behavior, not the professors. I'm trying to decide what I should do; how I should act.

[BeckyFL]

I disagree with this. I think there is a huge difference between using racially offensive words and using words that may (or may not) be forbidden by someone else's religion. I don't think it's appropriate to insist that the professor speak in such a way as to avoid violating the commandments of a religion (or even a specific interpretation of a religion) that she doesn't even subscribe to. If a Muslim student asked the professor to please cover her head, because lack of a headcovering is offensive to her religion, would anyone here think the professor should start wearing a headcovering?

 

Jackie

:iagree:

[Julie in CA]

It would (and does) bother me to hear that, and it *is* blasphemy.

I would transfer to another class if possible, or plan to take it another semester if the school is big enough that it's likely to be offered with a different professor.

If I absolutely needed that class, I'd take it and use the semester as an opportunity to pray for the professor. Either way, as soon as I was no longer in the position of needing to submit to that teacher, I'd write (and send) a sincere letter explaining my viewpoint. I would include a ton of humility in the letter, along with the statement that I felt I had an obligation to let them know that even if it's done unintentionally, it's a form of religious intolerance that may offend others as well.

[tex-mex]

My dilemma is that I'm PAYING for this class, which turns out to include blasphemy. I wouldn't pay to hear blasphemy in any other situation (for example, at a movie), so I'm wondering how this differs.

 

Also, I don't go around asking other people not to blaspheme. I don't ask my unsaved family members to 'watch their language' because it offends me. It's not my place. (Now, I may ask that they not teach my children certain words, but I believe that's different.) And no need to apologize, I appreciate your honesty.

 

 

 

But this IS the matter -- you just brought it up -- you do see it as blasphemy and you are paying for it. That, my dear, is the "button" I mentioned previously.

 

In this matter, you do not have the power or control to walk out or turn it off as been done in the past. Which makes the offense hard to deal with. What if it was an employer or a doctor saving your family member's life (but was a jerk) or supermarket checker? The fact is you either need to continue the class and look at the prof as God sees her (thru rose colored glasses) or drop it due to your religious POV.

 

But if you do drop the class, you in essence, lose. You might as well go to a Christian college and isolate yourself from other things that may cause offense, kwim? I apologize for this answer. But am trying to help you see that the scandal/blasphemy really lies in your heart. You need to pray about what you need to do next. We need to love others as Christ loves us no matter how flawed. (Speaking this with a log in my own eye -- LOL -- :grouphug:)

[elfgivas]

clarity sometimes help us make decisions.

 

so, for what it is worth, you are paying the college not the professor for the opportunity to take "x" number of courses. your tuition also covers the heating and janitors and electricity. the college hires their professors to meet their commitment to their students (and pays the electric company, etc).

 

i suspect the college has a protocol of what language is considered appropriate in a classroom.

 

for me, the goal is to bring more and more of my life in line with my values. sometimes that requires dramatic change, sometimes its more gradual.

 

but given that professors are human, professors at a Christian college will also not be sin-free. some will have affairs, some will drink to access, some will.... well, you get the picture.

 

where i am coming down on your situation is that you are not paying the professor to sin, she is choosing that on her own ... and if you do not give money to folks who employ folks who sin then you won't be paying anyone to do anything KWIM?

 

hth

ann

[Corraleno]

even if it's done unintentionally, it's a form of religious intolerance that may offend others as well.

How does not following the commandments of a religion you don't even belong to qualify as "religious intolerance"? :confused:

 

Jackie

[*********]

But this IS the matter -- you just brought it up -- you do see it as blasphemy and you are paying for it. That, my dear, is the "button" I mentioned previously.

 

In this matter, you do not have the power or control to walk out or turn it off as been done in the past. Which makes the offense hard to deal with. What if it was an employer or a doctor saving your family member's life (but was a jerk) or supermarket checker? The fact is you either need to continue the class and look at the prof as God sees her (thru rose colored glasses) or drop it due to your religious POV.

 

But if you do drop the class, you in essence, lose. You might as well go to a Christian college and isolate yourself from other things that may cause offense, kwim? I apologize for this answer. But am trying to help you see that the scandal/blasphemy really lies in your heart. You need to pray about what you need to do next. We need to love others as Christ loves us no matter how flawed. (Speaking this with a log in my own eye -- LOL -- :grouphug:)

 

I'm not trying to isolate myself from things that offend me.

 

Perhaps I'm not explaining it well.

 

I'm trying to not PARTICIPATE in things that offend God.

 

I'm struggling with the idea that, by paying for the class, perhaps I am participating in the offense of blasphemy.

 

For example, if I paid to go see a movie that included actors who blasphemed God, I would feel that I was participating in the offense.

 

I don't want to participate in blasphemy, even if that means dropping a college class I paid for.

 

Does that make sense?

[Alenee]

I can understand it bothering you and maybe talking with her kindly might work but I have two other thoughts on the matter.

 

1. The word 'god' doesn't necessarily mean 'The One True and Living God'. There are numerous 'gods' in our world...not all TRUE gods, yes, but gods nonetheless. I find it somewhat annoying that so many people find it offensive. Our God goes by many names...not just 'God'. And He even instructs us that there are other 'gods' that aren't true...using the word 'god'. SOOOOOOO, my point there, I think some Christians have made that into more than it really is and to pick THAT one to bother you so much...maybe it's time to take a :chillpill:.

 

2. Rather than finding it offensive that you think she's disrespecting God, consider that whether she is a Christian or not, she should have your grace.

[tex-mex]

but given that professors are human, professors at a Christian college will also not be sin-free. some will have affairs, some will drink to access, some will.... well, you get the picture.

 

 

I concur. Having gone to both public and Christian colleges -- there was no difference -- people are flawed and make mistakes. I was the Resident Counselor (married at 19) going to school full time and a "mom" to the incoming freshman. We had alcoholism, drugs, suicides, pregnancies, affairs, -- etc -- at the small Christian college I attended. No different from the large state universtity I went to previously. The difference is you supposedly come from the same background at a Christian college -- but morals are not necessarily the same. Personally, I find most Christians attending for the first time like to sow their "oats" so to speak once from out from the parent's watch for the first 2-3 years in school. :confused:

 

ETA: Hubby was an ordained minister and did a lot of pastoral counseling. It really opened our eyes to human foils and how imperfect we ALL are -- saved or not -- but God still loves us all.

Edited September 17, 2010 by tex-mex

[Alenee]

 

For example, if I paid to go see a movie that included actors who blasphemed God, I would feel that I was participating in the offense.

 

God knows your heart. And the prof's. If God knows that it bothers you and that you don't want agree with what she's saying, but you feel led to take this class, then let God handle it and rest in the knowledge that He sees your discomfort and the respect and reverence you have for Him.

[freethinkermama]

I'm not trying to isolate myself from things that offend me.

 

Perhaps I'm not explaining it well.

 

I'm trying to not PARTICIPATE in things that offend God.

 

I'm struggling with the idea that, by paying for the class, perhaps I am participating in the offense of blasphemy.

 

For example, if I paid to go see a movie that included actors who blasphemed God, I would feel that I was participating in the offense.

 

I don't want to participate in blasphemy, even if that means dropping a college class I paid for.

 

Does that make sense?

 

 

How far do you have to go to not participate in this woman's "blasphemy". Perhaps, simply by paying to be in this college at all, which pays this professor's salary, you are supporting her blasphemy. Can it be avoided by not being in her class, or the college for which she works, in the state wherein she lives (if this is a state university)? I'm not trying to make this a slippery slope, but just following the logic here.

 

T.

[BeckyFL]

I'm not trying to isolate myself from things that offend me.

 

Perhaps I'm not explaining it well.

 

I'm trying to not PARTICIPATE in things that offend God.

 

I'm struggling with the idea that, by paying for the class, perhaps I am participating in the offense of blasphemy.

 

For example, if I paid to go see a movie that included actors who blasphemed God, I would feel that I was participating in the offense.

 

I don't want to participate in blasphemy, even if that means dropping a college class I paid for.

 

Does that make sense?

 

The thing is, you'll be dropping most of your classes. You chose a secular college which means you will be learning from teachers who do not share your beliefs. If it WAS a Christian college, I would say that you need to talk to the teacher. But this teacher is not held to that standard at all and neither is anyone else at the college unless they have their own personal beliefs. We live in the world. Joseph and Daniel are examples of God's people surrounded by a different culture. They didn't expect those around them to change, they only held to the standard themselves. Now if the professor made YOU start saying those things, THEN it would be a different story, but you can't expect her to be anyone other than who she is. You have to realize that going in.

Edited September 17, 2010 by BeckyFL

[JillZ]

I just am not sure that I should be paying to attend a class where the professor blasphemes. It is about MY behavior, not the professors. I'm trying to decide what I should do; how I should act.

 

I do see your point here. As a Christian, one thing to think about is that everyone is a sinner, and no one sin is worse than another. Even if you were in a Christian college where the professors didn't blaspheme, they would still be sinners, whether or not the sin was visible. There is just no way to avoid it in this world. We all have to interact with and depend on each other; even isolating ourselves would not solve the problem. I'm not sure what you should do in this case, but it's something to keep in mind.

[Corraleno]

I'm struggling with the idea that, by paying for the class, perhaps I am participating in the offense of blasphemy.

 

for what it is worth, you are paying the college not the professor for the opportunity to take "x" number of courses. your tuition also covers the heating and janitors and electricity. the college hires their professors to meet their commitment to their students (and pays the electric company, etc).

:iagree:

This is the point I was trying to make earlier about the difference between personally paying a tutor (where you would have the right to ask that they not offend you, since you are paying them directly) and attending a CC class, where you are not directly paying the professor's salary, and there are many other students in the class each of whom will have different values and religious beliefs. In the latter case, I don't think your presence in the class is in any way condoning or supporting the language you consider offensive, any more than it would be if you used a bank or a grocery store or any other large organization where some people speak that way.

 

Jackie

[tex-mex]

I'm not trying to isolate myself from things that offend me.

 

Perhaps I'm not explaining it well.

 

I'm trying to not PARTICIPATE in things that offend God.

 

I'm struggling with the idea that, by paying for the class, perhaps I am participating in the offense of blasphemy.

 

For example, if I paid to go see a movie that included actors who blasphemed God, I would feel that I was participating in the offense.

 

I don't want to participate in blasphemy, even if that means dropping a college class I paid for.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I understand. But your frame of thought still leads me to think it is a control issue -- you "participating" in the offense. Normally, you'd walk out of the theatre or turn off the TV if it happened. In your mind, you are showing God you want no part of it morally. Which is fine.

 

However, this matter is too large for you to be in control morally. How can one control another person -- and you are relying on this person for a grade? Do you continue to sit in the class? Or do you drop it? Again, all of this is based on the original scandalon (blasphemy) that is the seed. How can you solve it? This is what you are struggling with.

 

My answer is that you cannot answer it. It is far out of your control. And God understands it. You need to either be at peace while attending the class (knowing that other profs could be far worse) and just do what you can to get the grade -- or drop the class and attend a Christian college that suits your sensibilities and morals. But how will this help you in life? Will it help you in missions to other cultures? The person on the street in goth makeup and tattoos who needs help? The irritable Senior Citizen who uses foul language? I'm just saying you may need to change your spiritual paradigms in going back to college.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Just talk to her. She most likely is not aware of what she is doing, and if you gently approach her and explain that it hurts your feelings (without being melodramatic or heavy-handed about it) she will most likely attempt to eliminate it.

 

I used to go to Toastmasters and welcomed when someone would point out my speech idiosyncrasies. One was using the phrase "you guys" to a mixed-gender group. It never occurred to me that that could be an offensive phrase (in the sense that it excludes women), and I am still guessing it never offended anyone, but I tried as hard as I could not to say that anymore.

 

Besides, you really have no hope of changing the behavior unless you talk to her about it. Getting her to reduce what you consider to be blasphemous language would also help you deal with this issue on a moral level, would it not?

Edited September 17, 2010 by OH_Homeschooler

[iluvmy4blessings]

I suggest that you refer to the school's handbook of policies and code of conduct. I am sure it is online. If not, you can go to the office and obtain a copy. In there will be rules on how teachers and students are expected to conduct themselves. This is what you and the teacher both agreed upon before enrolling in the class. If the professor is doing something that goes against this code of conduct then make a complaint. I would suggest that you enroll in a Christian school. There are plenty even online where you can do distance learning.

[elfgivas]

I'm not trying to isolate myself from things that offend me.

 

Perhaps I'm not explaining it well.

 

I'm trying to not PARTICIPATE in things that offend God.

 

I'm struggling with the idea that, by paying for the class, perhaps I am participating in the offense of blasphemy.

 

For example, if I paid to go see a movie that included actors who blasphemed God, I would feel that I was participating in the offense.

 

I don't want to participate in blasphemy, even if that means dropping a college class I paid for.

 

Does that make sense?

 

we live in an imperfect world so it is also true that by shopping at any store you are participating in their choices which may involve not paying a living wage, not giving people enough hours to qualify for benefits, selling goods made in 3rd world countries by underage workers... etc, etc, etc.

 

do you own a car? does it not pollute God's creation? do you use electricity? does its generation not pollute God's creation? do you buy non organic food? does its production not destroy God's creation? do you buy non range free eggs? are you participating in animal cruelty?

 

these questions are where my comment about gradually bringing our lives in line with our values comes from.... it took 10 years for me to get an organic food coop going in our area. my family still needed to eat for those 10 years, so i did my best to minimize the damage (we got chickens, for example, and bought as much organic food as we could afford, etc., etc). but i still sometimes bought food whose production went against my values. we own two cars. we drive them. its the real world. as soon as we have a viable solution that is more life giving, we'll take it. in the meantime, we carpool as much as we can. we have stopped buying clothing manufactured by children, because it was possible to do that.

 

while your professor's language is deeply troubling you, maybe in your prayer life you can leave space for G*d to show you areas in which you are living abundantly and areas where you could be more faithful. if you live in north america, my hunch is that there are many, many areas of your daily living that are much more egregious to God than a professor's blasphemy. Jesus made it a point to hang out with sinners (not that he had much choice, but hopefully you KWIM).

 

blessings,

ann

[Greta]

Bethany, it sounds to me like your concern is that by paying for this class, you are supporting the blasphemy of the teacher. But I do not believe that to be the case at all. It doesn't mean that you're condoning it or supporting it in any way. It simply means you are there to learn that specific subject matter, and that and only that is what you are paying for. Honestly, if any of us does any sort of financial transaction with anyone, does it mean we condone their other choices? It's just an exchange of goods and services, it doesn't make YOU morally accountable for the actions of that other person. Truly.

 

For what it's worth, I think that I would stay in the class, as someone else wisely suggested, say a brief prayer for her when she blasphemes, and if you must say something at all, don't do it until the evaluation at the end of the semester. I'm saying this as gently and kindly as possible, but I think it is unfair and unrealistic for us Christians to expect non-Christians to respect our faith, and follow the guidelines that Christ holds us to. And whether or not that is what is in your heart, I think that is the way it will come across to her if you bring it up.

 

And I completely agree with this:

 

where i am coming down on your situation is that you are not paying the professor to sin, she is choosing that on her own ... and if you do not give money to folks who employ folks who sin then you won't be paying anyone to do anything KWIM?

 

 

:grouphug:

Greta

[*********]

clarity sometimes help us make decisions.

 

so, for what it is worth, you are paying the college not the professor for the opportunity to take "x" number of courses. your tuition also covers the heating and janitors and electricity. the college hires their professors to meet their commitment to their students (and pays the electric company, etc).

 

i suspect the college has a protocol of what language is considered appropriate in a classroom.

 

for me, the goal is to bring more and more of my life in line with my values. sometimes that requires dramatic change, sometimes its more gradual.

 

but given that professors are human, professors at a Christian college will also not be sin-free. some will have affairs, some will drink to access, some will.... well, you get the picture.

 

where i am coming down on your situation is that you are not paying the professor to sin, she is choosing that on her own ... and if you do not give money to folks who employ folks who sin then you won't be paying anyone to do anything KWIM?

 

hth

ann

 

That was quite helpful, thank you. A good perspective.

 

God knows your heart. And the prof's. If God knows that it bothers you and that you don't want agree with what she's saying, but you feel led to take this class, then let God handle it and rest in the knowledge that He sees your discomfort and the respect and reverence you have for Him.

 

Also good advice.

 

How far do you have to go to not participate in this woman's "blasphemy". Perhaps, simply by paying to be in this college at all, which pays this professor's salary, you are supporting her blasphemy. Can it be avoided by not being in her class, or the college for which she works, in the state wherein she lives (if this is a state university)? I'm not trying to make this a slippery slope, but just following the logic here.

 

Hmm, also a good point. Very good point.

 

T.

 

The thing is, you'll be dropping most of your classes.

 

That's what I'm sayin'. :tongue_smilie:

 

I do see your point here. As a Christian, one thing to think about is that everyone is a sinner, and no one sin is worse than another. Even if you were in a Christian college where the professors didn't blaspheme, they would still be sinners, whether or not the sin was visible. There is just no way to avoid it in this world. We all have to interact with and depend on each other; even isolating ourselves would not solve the problem. I'm not sure what you should do in this case, but it's something to keep in mind.

 

Mmm. True.

 

Thank you ladies, for helping me think it through logically. This is exactly what I needed.

[tex-mex]

Jesus made it a point to hang out with sinners (not that he had much choice, but hopefully you KWIM).

 

 

Well, on a lighter note... I think Jesus did choose to hang out with the ill-repute folks on purpose. Note he didn't invite the Pharisees or Saducees out to dinner, que no? LOL ;)

[EKS]

She does not do it to offend you - in fact, most people who use these phrases are not even aware that some people find this offensive.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I was like this. Over the past 7 years, since I've been homeschooling and have had lots of contact with very religious folks, I've really tried to change my ways (and have been mostly successful).

[OH_Homeschooler]

I suggest that you refer to the school's handbook of policies and code of conduct. I am sure it is online. If not, you can go to the office and obtain a copy. In there will be rules on how teachers and students are expected to conduct themselves. This is what you and the teacher both agreed upon before enrolling in the class. If the professor is doing something that goes against this code of conduct then make a complaint. I would suggest that you enroll in a Christian school. There are plenty even online where you can do distance learning.

 

This just seems way extreme to me. I hate confrontation on every level but I've found that a simple discussion with someone about something that really matters to me will eliminate the problem most of the time. Why not start there? Believe it or not, professors are just regular people and in my experience, most are people-pleasers.

 

It just seems strange to me that so many people are recommending all these back-handed solutions when a direct request will suffice.

[ELaurie]

not unlike your decision to wear a head covering.

 

In our denomination, there are women who wear head coverings as a matter of conscience, based upon their understanding of the Scriptures. There are others who do not wear head coverings. Both decisions are respected.

 

It seems to me that from Biblical perspective, there is no clear mandate regarding your participation in the class; it's a matter of conscience for you in the sense that if you see taking the class as participating in blasphemy, it may be appropriate for you to gently explain your position to the professor, or to opt out of the class. On the other hand, if you feel led to pray for her, for example, you may decide to remain in the class and pray for her, or set a quiet, humble example by your respectful participation.

[Liza Lee]

Bethany, to me this is a different issue from entertainment, where of course you would turn off the TV or change the radio station.

 

You are trying to get an education and since you have chosen to go to a secular school there will always be stuff that is uncomfortable.

 

If I were you, I'd approach the prof from the position that it's distracting. While a college professor may not be very open to changing language just because it doesn't work for your religious sensibilities, if you tell her that careless use of the Lord's name gets in the way of learning she may be more open to making a change.

 

BTW, I'm with you on blasphemy. I find it just as distracting/upsetting as the F bomb.

[Kathleen in VA]

I don't like to hear this kind of language either. It is not legalistic to not want to hear the Lord's name taken in vain. I think the problem is a bit deeper than just one professor blaspheming though. I really don't have any desire to confuse you or make you feel guilty, but I think there is a broader issue here.

 

I will try very hard to say this gently. You have chosen to go to a secular institution to receive your education. There will be many more incidents similar to this one if you continue to go there. Not only will the language of the professors be a problem, but the content of the lectures will no doubt contain information that is contrary to your beliefs as well.

 

As a Christian, I would find it very difficult to subject myself to this kind of instruction. We have a choice in matters like these (unlike hearing these sorts of things as we're shopping at Walmart). I would want to attend classes where I know the professors are looking at the world through the same biblical lens that I am. (Btw, I don't consider that being narrow minded or like I'm trying to isolate myself from the real world - there are other avenues and contexts in which I can engage the culture and the people around me. Paying to take classes designed to teach me truth from people who couldn't possibly understand truth as I know it is another matter altogether.) I haven't been keeping up with your college aspirations, if you have made them known, so I don't know if there is another way to accomplish your goals other than attending a secular institution in your state.

 

You seem to be struggling with the issue of whether it is good stewardship to be taking a class in which the professor is using the Lord's name in vain throughout her lectures. I think you should be reconsidering whether it is good stewardship to be attending a secular institution at all.

 

If you decide there is no other alternative, then I would advise that you overlook this professor's speech. You simply cannot expect a non-believer to behave like a believer. You chose to attend a secular college in the first place. You should not be surprised to find professors speaking and acting in ways that go against your beliefs. Taking the Lord's name in vain is just the tip of the iceberg - you will keep encountering situations like this. I think you should have anticipated it.

[skueppers]

Well, I'm an atheist, so I wouldn't normally feel that I had any input on a Christian conversation at all!

 

In this case, though, I think I might have something useful to contribute.

 

I worked at public universities for many years, and I can tell you that if someone had complained to me about the language used by a person who worked for me, I would have taken it seriously, spoken with the employee in question, and expected them to try to be more considerate in the future.

 

I think it would be a good idea to talk with the department chair about this. It's a matter of cultural sensitivity, and public universities and colleges do care about this issue. Even if it doesn't cause any immediate change, it may have a long-term positive effect. For example, a section on religious sensitivity may be inserted into a future training session for faculty.