Are Number Lines Evil?

[Food4Thought]

Please help me with my moral dilemma. Yesterday, while at a school supply sale, I was chatting with the store owner about homeschooling. She mentioned that she wishes her granddaughter were homeschooled, but she's not. Then she went on to say that the girl was learning math "on number lines" which she found "unacceptable."

 

Lo and behold, today's Math Mammoth lesson introduced the number line. And there I was wondering, "Shall I push this evil upon my child? Will I grossly inhibit his math skills by introducing this number line?"

 

Help! Do you know why she had an issue with the number line? Should I teach it or not? FWIW, I skipped it today - DS is already beyond visualizing for addition anyway. But DD will be at that level soon. Thanks!

[Beth in SW WA]

Then she went on to say that the girl was learning math "on number lines" which she found "unacceptable."

 

Don't listen to that blasphemy! :)

 

We LOVE the number lines in MM!!! It's a brilliant tool for this age.

[Hedgehogs4]

I LOVED NUMBERLINES when i was in the second grade. i understood them, it worked for me. i remember them fondly and hope to introduce one to my daughter soon. if it's evil, then someone forgot to tell me.

[myfatherslily]

Well, I hope they're not evil, 'cause Horizons 1 uses them extensively!! And yesterday I noticed at least one number line in the Miquon Lab Sheet Annotations book. Not sure if they use them on the lab sheets, but it was an example of how to explain adding to the child.

[Dana]

Number lines are very useful. Decimals are evil.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Love the number line here!

 

Now, on the other hand, if that is the only tool in your arsenal, you will have problems. Maybe that was her beef?

[DaffodilDreams]

Sal at the Khan Academy (online math helps) teaches via number lines, and he seems rather brilliant, so no, I would not say they are evil. Anything that helps kids "get it" is okay with me.

[KathyBC]

Another 'yes' vote for number lines! They were an effective tool my oldest learned using Miquon.

[Mosaicmind]

I haven't seen a math program yet, and I've tried them all, that doesn't incorporate number lines. We just did a free MM worksheet yesterday that was all number lines. My son loved it and said it was easy for him to see the addition this way.

[Shelly in the Country]

I just showed my dd4 a number line for the first time this week. I think they are useful. Like a previous poster said, I'd be concerned if it was the only thing one was using... Hooray for number lines? :001_smile:

Edited September 1, 2010 by Shelly in the Country

[robsiew]

My ds5 just started number lines in MM last week and he LOVES them! Not sure why she would say that. It's one more tool to help kids visualize operations. To me, that's not evil!

[MissKNG]

I don't see anything wrong with number lines.

[silver]

Not only are they useful for teaching concepts like addition/subtraction and negative numbers, but being familiar with a number line can help with estimation and number sense. I would find a math curriculum that didn't use number lines to be lacking.

[MerryAtHope]

Seems like you'd need more information from her to even know what her issue was with them. It could be that she feels her granddaughter won't learn to truly add but will only learn to count or something like that--maybe she's worried it will become a crutch? I'm trying to imagine how numberlines could be used detrimentally! At any rate, this person didn't give you any real information, so I wouldn't make any decisions based on it. You'd need to know why she was concerned and then you'd need to evaluate whether or not the same situation and concerns applied to your son in order to weigh what she told you.

 

Merry :-)

[FO4UR]

I have a numberline taped down to our school desk with packing tape to use dry-erase markers in our math. It's not our only tool, but it's very useful...and I think it's important to have as part of basic math learning.

 

Maybe that lady was concerned that some children become dependent upon a numberline like some kids become dependent upon counting on their fingers.

[mommaduck]

Love, love, love number lines. I used to have a really nice one (-20 to 100) as a border around the dining room. I miss it!

[Corraleno]

Well, some people believe teaching phonics is evil, too. :glare:

 

FWIW, Hung-Hsi Wu (Professor Emeritus at Berkeley, specialist in the teaching of mathematics) argues quite forcefully for the use of number lines very early in math education. For example, he believes that the way American schools teach fractions (as "pieces of a pizza," instead of points on a number line) is a huge mistake. I think I'd take his word over that of a school supply store owner. :001_smile:

 

Jackie

[shadah]

I hated number lines in school. I didn't understand why we still had to use them in 3rd grade for basic addition. But, all the other kids got out their little frogs so they could jump from one number to the answer. All I could think of was "What a waste of time!" Any 3rd grader should have had the facts down by then.

[Angie in VA]

Number lines are very useful. Decimals are evil.

 

ROFLOL! *High-fiving Dana*

 

I like number lines and love Joan Cotter's number line.

[Guest TheBugsMom]

My dd loves number lines. She will draw one down the driveway and make up her own number sentences using sticks and pine cones or just jumping up the equation. I don't think they are evil. Hmm...I wonder if she views unifix cubes as the little evil minions?

[Carrie12345]

I'm big on fact drilling, but we definitely use number lines and counters first (and sometimes as an aid later).

 

2+3 isn't 5 *just* because I say so! It's because 5 is 3 lines (or cubes, or blocks, or dollars) more than 2!

 

Psst - I still visualize dice patterns from time to time. :tongue_smilie:

[Food4Thought]

Thank you all! I'm feeling better about number lines now. :) I think I see how number lines might be a part of that whole mastery vs. drilling issue (kind of like whole language vs. phonics, right?). The woman also mentioned counting on fingers being a bad thing, so I imagine she's coming from flash card city.

 

Thanks for chiming in - I'll continue happily with MM now. :auto:

[Closeacademy]

I love the number line for teaching. It really helped my dds. But we made it into a number sidewalk and the toy of their choice got to walk up and down it.

 

If you don't like that idea you can always do circles:

 

subtraction gets 1 big circle, they put a number of objects in there and then take away some to get the answer to the problem.

 

addition gets 3 circles, one for each number and then they get shoved over into the circle at the end where you find the answer.

 

:001_smile:

[nmoira]

 

The woman also mentioned counting on fingers being a bad thing, so I imagine she's coming from flash card city.

Now, that's a whole other issue. We're pro-number line (something I didn't even realize had an "anti" camp), but don't permit finger counting.

[guateangel]

Love the number line here! Now, on the other hand, if that is the only tool in your arsenal, you will have problems. Maybe that was her beef?

 

Yep, this was my beef with it last year in public school. It was the only tool used and it was not successful for my dd.

[Food4Thought]

Now, that's a whole other issue. We're pro-number line (something I didn't even realize had an "anti" camp), but don't permit finger counting.

 

Just out of curiosity, why not? I've seen people mention finger counting as a no-no before. How does it differ from, say, counting bears or beads? I'm obviously a newbie (and I haven't read Liping Ma yet - my library ordered the book for me and I'm still waiting :D). Thanks!

[nmoira]

Just out of curiosity, why not? I've seen people mention finger counting as a no-no before. How does it differ from, say, counting bears or beads? I'm obviously a newbie (and I haven't read Liping Ma yet - my library ordered the book for me and I'm still waiting :D). Thanks!

We do use fingers for some purposes as a visualization tool: e.g. partitioning 10 (aka showing the number bonds to make 10) and seeing how much more or less than five something is, but nothing that requires counting. I am also fine with kids calculating 7+2 by putting down seven fingers and then two more and seeing 9. There's little difference between using this technique and using the Alabacus in Right Start. But no counting. I'm sure with some kids it's fine, but finger counting can become an entrenched habit, and it isn't a method of calculation that requires thought about how numbers work. Most kids who use fingers for 7+2 would put down one finger for 8 and a second for 9 -- a technique that doesn't help with visualization as the fingers only serve as tally marks until enough has been "added on."

 

Singapore does use counting on (not on fingers) as a method to figure out +1 or +2, but we do games to master "one more, one less" and go to the next even or odd number for +2 and -2. I don't think it's as big a deal though, as these particular facts are usually learned pretty quickly.

[Dana]

Just out of curiosity, why not? I've seen people mention finger counting as a no-no before. How does it differ from, say, counting bears or beads? I'm obviously a newbie (and I haven't read Liping Ma yet - my library ordered the book for me and I'm still waiting :D). Thanks!

 

I'm also interested in the responses.

 

I think it's definitely better to get number sense - use manipulatives and count, then go abstract. I don't want my son to be stuck using his fingers or counting because it does slow you down.

 

I majored in math in my undergrad program. I didn't have my 9's times tables memorized until my graduate program. :eek: I used my fingers with the "trick". I covered over that page in Singapore 3A for my son. I'm not going to show it to him & he's going to understand first, then memorize!

 

Using my fingers (and dreadful dreadful arithmetic skills) didn't hold me back from getting a bachelor's degree (& later graduate classes) - or from understanding higher-level math. It did slow me down on computations though.

 

Maybe that's the reason?

[Chris in VA]

I didn't use Horizons because of its use of number lines. I liked other ways of visualizing.

BUT--

If you don't know about number lines, how the heck can you do work with the coordinate plane? Saxon teaches it (intros it) as a vertical number line (which is one reason why they have the child work with the thermometer so much) and a horizontal number line set up perpendicularly to one another.

[misidawnrn]

We use MM too and number lines. I remember number lines in school and I grew out of using them a long time ago!!! :tongue_smilie: I think, like any other manipulative, it is a tool to help a child learn. It is nice to "hop" to other numbers and DD thinks it is fun. I bet she won't be using it long.

[deeinfl]

Maybe she meant as opposed to teaching math facts...that's the only reason I could think of she would think they were evil. They sure would have helped me in the first and second grade. I was one of those kids who just never got it up until I turned around 10.

[nd293]

Number lines are fine. Calculators are evil, though!

[Poke Salad Annie]

 

FWIW, Hung-Hsi Wu (Professor Emeritus at Berkeley, specialist in the teaching of mathematics) argues quite forcefully for the use of number lines very early in math education. For example, he believes that the way American schools teach fractions (as "pieces of a pizza," instead of points on a number line) is a huge mistake. I think I'd take his word over that of a school supply store owner. :001_smile:

 

Jackie

 

:iagree:

 

Oops! I forgot to mention that Dollar Tree has in the past had a nice number line in the school supply section. We used packing tape at the ends of each piece, and now we have a number line that folds up nicely for storage, and when open extends the length of my den.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Poke Salad Annie

[homeschoolally]

I haven't seen a math program yet, and I've tried them all, that doesn't incorporate number lines. We just did a free MM worksheet yesterday that was all number lines. My son loved it and said it was easy for him to see the addition this way.

 

This was what I was going to say. We've tried out MANY math programs and every one used # lines.

 

Don't worry!!! :001_smile:

[LuvToRead]

We use number lines, too.