Help me help DD clean her room

[k2bdeutmeyer]

I'm at a loss. I just don't know what to do anymore.

 

DD is 10 and ADD. I also think she is just lazy. She's the type to go into the kitchen to get a pen out of the junk drawer and then just leave the drawer hanging open and leave the pen sitting on the table when she's done. She will then go into the bathroom to get a cotton ball, leave the cupboard door open, and the bag of cotton balls sitting on the counter. I am CONSTANTLY harping on her. I don't expect our house or her room to be perfect, but it would be nice if she could learn to throw her trash in the garbage can instead of leaving it on the couch or the floor, and to pick up what she drops instead of stepping over it.

 

Her room is constantly a disaster. I have gone through (spent 8+hrs in there with her) her room and organized everything - including a place for everything and labels. She just never puts anything away. She digs through her drawers for something to wear and leaves the clothes laying everywhere on her floor and drawers hanging open. Then she gets out some beads for a project and leaves them on the floor with the clothes. They, of course, get kicked over and spilled everywhere. Then she packs a bag of things to do while we go to __________ (fill in the blank - anywhere), which she leaves in the car and then gets told to go put away. She takes it to her room and throws it on the floor. Later, she needs something out of the bag, so she dumps it on the floor and grabs what she needs. Anyway....you get the idea. It exhausts me trying to stay on top of her.

 

She never picks up ANYTHING unless somebody makes her. That being said, when we ask her to clean her room she goes into hermit mode. She "can't do it"....it's "too hard". I get that she's overwhelmed, but I've taught her all the tricks (start with one thing - all the garbage, or all the clothes, or in one area - under her desk, her closet, etc..). She has all the tools, but still refuses to do it herself and spends all day pouting in her room instead of just doing it.

 

We've taken away priveleges, offered rewards, etc.....nothing works. She always wants us to sit in there with her while she does it. I can't do that forever.

 

Anybody have a kid like this??? How do you handle it?? I'm ready to lose my mind!

[NanceXToo]

Honestly? I think the easiest thing is that you go in there once a day, say in the morning when she's first getting up, and announce cheerfully that it's time to do a quick straightening up in her room. Then either help her, keep her company, or oversee her. If it's done on a daily basis like that, it probably wouldn't take more than five minutes. And if it can be done in five minutes once a day, it will never get overwhelming- for her or for you.

 

And you won't have to do it "forever"- it just seems like it. Kinda like the stage where babies don't sleep through the night lol.

[Mejane]

You might need to minimize her "stuff" to a manageable amount. I call my kids back from wherever they are and make them pick up whatever they left. I've also confiscated their things when they leave them lying around.

 

She sounds a lot like my son. He's just an airhead; I keep hoping he'll outgrown it. :glare:

[Guest aquiverfull]

Are you sure you're not talking about my dd?? Seriously this is my 11 year old dd to a "t". I've done all the same things you've done and still get those same old results. We made her stay in her room to clean the other day. It took her 2 days and yet it's pretty much back to the same it was before she cleaned. So sorry, I don't have any words of wisdom, but just wanted you to know that you are not alone.:grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

I'm like this, to a certain extent.

 

It helps me to not only have a place for everything, but to have very, very little to put in its place.

 

Strip her room to just clothes (and just clothes for this season), 5 or 6 books, and a hairbrush. No art supplies or other frou-frou, or toys.

 

Minimalism is key for neatness for me. (Wow. That's almost poetic! lol)

 

It won't help with the other areas, but it will certainly help with her room.

 

And then, do a scheduled tidy before bed. Set a timer for 3 minutes, and see what she gets done.

[MyLittleWonders]

I too don't have any words of wisdom, but you just described my 9 year old ds! I'm hoping to find something that works as his two younger brothers seem to emulate him. ;)

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Great ideas Chris, and we've tried to do that as much as we can, unfortunately our house is too small to strip her room completely. She has 2 dressers (one with this season's clothes, the other with the off season), a box of pens/pencils/markers, a box with beads, some bookshelves (with her books, CD's, movies, etc...), and a plastic set of drawers with all her miscellaneous stuff (basically a junk drawer for easy put away).

[Tap]

I think it needs to be done consistently and with consequence for not getting it done.

 

She likes to be coddled ("its too hard... -at 11yo :confused:) so make it about baby steps.

 

This is what I would do if dd11 acted like that:

 

1. Ever night at 8pm an alarm would go off in her room. NO MATTER WHAT she was doing, she would have to go to her room and turn off the alarm. She would be allowed to come out, if the room was picked up. You can determine the level you would like to see. Some people care about made beds, others don't. But in her case I would focus on having the covers at least thrown back on her bed and NOthing on the floor. If she doesn't do this, she stays in her room until it is done. PERIOD. It will only take 5 minutes if she puts effort into it. This isn't intended to be a punishment, but if more of a 'earn your freedom of choosing your activities' by doing your responsibilities. If you can get it to be a thing that she thinks 'I don't want to come in from outside at 8pm, so I will clean it up before I go', then you are starting to make some headway into choices.

 

2. I would start a similar project with putting away things as she goes. I would tell her that if she wants to act like a baby, then she will get treated like a baby. Babies take out things and leave them all over the place. Babies don't get choices like: desserts, choosing their own clothes/toys, playing outside, sports, electronics etc.. So, if she wants to act like that, that is fine, that is a choice, but the privileges earned by showing basic responsibilities are no longer going to be available based on her behaviors. Act like a 'big kid' get treated like one.

[Chris in VA]

Great ideas Chris, and we've tried to do that as much as we can, unfortunately our house is too small to strip her room completely. She has 2 dressers (one with this season's clothes, the other with the off season), a box of pens/pencils/markers, a box with beads, some bookshelves (with her books, CD's, movies, etc...), and a plastic set of drawers with all her miscellaneous stuff (basically a junk drawer for easy put away).

 

Do you have a school room or place you do school where you store other items like pencils and art supplies? Maybe you could clear out the junk drawers (to minimize), and relocate the other things to that area? Small pieces of things are trouble for me. Even if it's just a matter of shoving them into a small place, it still feels overwhelming. I do think I'd just totally take those junk drawers out of her room. Maybe give her a 1 ft long shelf with one photo box for treasures she absolutely has to have, but again, you may be asking for trouble to have small stuff to organize.

 

OTOH, I can't remember what I have unless I see it, so I do leave stuff laying around! lol

 

Is she very visual?

[Kim in Appalachia]

I'll start by saying I'm not good at doing this with my own children. My girls room is a constant mess, the oldest is the worse of the two. My kids leave stuff all over the house, so I'm not claiming to have this mastered by any stretch of the imagination. But...

 

I do know how to do it. You have to physically stay with the child and make the child do it. When you dd leaves something on the floor you have to be right there telling her to pick it up now and put it away. When she doesn't respond you have to go get her and make her do it. You don't yell, you don't let it turn into a fight, you just keep telling her, in your nicest voice, that she needs to pick the item up and put it away. Then you follow her and make sure it's done. You stay in her room, continuing to talk and give instructions, until the tasks are complete. You have to physically be there. You can not tell her and leave and then yell at her later when it is not done. You have to keep reminding yourself that you are training her. She is a child who needs to be taught and it takes constant vigilance on your part. It is hard to do this, which is why my kids are so bad at it. When I get in that mode and follow through it works well. But I tend to back off and then it falls a part. You really have to keep at it.

 

I have seen this work. I know people who are great at this with their kids. They just seem to have a lot more patience than I have. :001_smile:

 

But remember that your dd is only 10. She's a normal kid who would rather do anything else than clean. To be honest, I would rather do anything else than clean too. But I am grown and know it must be done because I don't like living in a mess. I know it's frustrating. I know I wish that my kids would just once put things away without being told. Or that their rooms would be clean without me assigning it as a chore. But I know that I have normal kids who would rather spend their time playing than doing work.

[sparrow]

Another :grouphug:. You've just described my 8 year old dd. My dh refers to it as dd's "path of destruction". She NEVER puts something away unless told and we are CONSTANTLY telling. It's like it never even crosses her mind:glare:. My ds is not like this. He has always kept a tidy room and puts his things away when he's finished. I'll be reading replies with interest.

[Dawn in OH]

Have you tried telling her, "I need to clean up your clothes and put them back in the dresser" ? Instead of asking her to clean the whole room. Then when she's finished with that have her clean up the beads, or the pens, or the dolls.

 

I think for some children the idea of cleaning "the whole room" is overwhelming, but if you indicate a certain portion of the mess it may seem less overwhelming.

 

Just an idea. I've started doing this with my son who seems to have room cleaning issues and so far it appears to be working.

[whitestavern]

My dd10 is EXACTLY like this! Finally, at the beginning of the summer, I tied her room being clean to computer time (she's allowed 1/2 hour a day on the computer and she wants that 1/2 hour). I spent a full day with her helping her clean and organize everything. I made a list of what constitutes a clean room. For us, it's a made bed, nothing on the floor, nothing on the beds, and only a few select items on her dressers, desk, and bedside table. If her room is clean, she gets her 1/2 hour. (I considered tying this to swimming, because she also loves doing that, but then on days when it's raining or we're gone for a majority of the day, her room wouldn't get cleaned). So far (knock on wood!) this is working. Her room never gets too messy to overwhelm her because she is cleaning daily. And I only had to remind her for the first week or so...now she cleans and then asks me if she can go on the computer.

 

This morning she even told me what a great idea it was to do this system because she is keeping her room clean now!

[Mynyel]

You have explained my whole house to a "T"!

 

For instance today dh got the bleach out of the cupboard to use. He used it then placed it on the top of the washer instead of reaching 2 feet up to put it back:001_huh: The reason it was put away was because I put it away the last time he used it:glare:

 

Dd took a shower this morning in our bathroom. Her dirty clothes and towel are still there on the floor.

 

Ds8 ate cereal for breakfast. Bowl and spoon are still on the table.

 

Ds2 is currently tossing all the freshly folded clothes off the couch.

 

Is it any wonder I posted about this a few weeks ago?

[rafiki]

.

[naturegirl7]

Tell her that she has to keep the common areas clean but can keep her room however she wants it (with ground rules like no food allowed in there).

It will be insanely messy for a while (perhaps for a long while), but eventually she will get fed up with it herself and start cleaning it. My aunt did this with my cousin and it worked REALLY well - it was messy for about a year or so honestly (my cuz said it was the only thing she felt like she had any control over in her life and the only way she could rebel - for what its worth) but then she got frustrated with not finding anything and embarassed when friends came over - and she started cleaning it all on her own. She is a very tidy adult now too :)

[SquirrellyMama]

Did my dd's move into your house? My dd's will all of a sudden be "sooo tired, can I just go to bed?"

 

Kelly

[Lara in Colo]

Here is what I do

 

Once a month or so we all get together and scoop EVERYTHING from under the beds and on the closet floor. Basically every messy part of the room. One big pile. Then I "teach " how to clean a room. We put everything into manageable piles (trash, clothes to clean, clothes to put away, things for bathroom, books etc...) then I send said child to put this all away. I stay put with a glass of tea. I do not clean, I deligate. Afterwards we must have the room cleaned every day with an inspection before I serve breakfast. After about a month the room is cluttered again and needs another "clean sweep"

 

I remember that as a child my mother would tell me to clean my room, and I was lost. I didn't know HOW. This way they do the work, and they learn how to organize their stuff.

 

 

Lara

[Parrothead]

I'm at a loss. I just don't know what to do anymore.

 

DD is 10 and ADD. I also think she is just lazy. She's the type to go into the kitchen to get a pen out of the junk drawer and then just leave the drawer hanging open and leave the pen sitting on the table when she's done. She will then go into the bathroom to get a cotton ball, leave the cupboard door open, and the bag of cotton balls sitting on the counter. I am CONSTANTLY harping on her. I don't expect our house or her room to be perfect, but it would be nice if she could learn to throw her trash in the garbage can instead of leaving it on the couch or the floor, and to pick up what she drops instead of stepping over it.

Oh, we had to lead dd to the trash can a number of times so she could remember what it was for and where it was. It was very embarrassing and memorable when it was done when a friend was over. I also instituted the "if you see a need, fill it" rule. If one gets caught stepping over the trash, pillow, dog poo instead of cleaning it up one gets an hour alone since one does not seem to want to be part of the family, which includes fulfilling the needs of the family. Believe me that has cut down dramatically on the amount of work I have to do.

 

 

Her room is constantly a disaster. I have gone through (spent 8+hrs in there with her) her room and organized everything - including a place for everything and labels. She just never puts anything away. She digs through her drawers for something to wear and leaves the clothes laying everywhere on her floor and drawers hanging open. Then she gets out some beads for a project and leaves them on the floor with the clothes. They, of course, get kicked over and spilled everywhere. Then she packs a bag of things to do while we go to __________ (fill in the blank - anywhere), which she leaves in the car and then gets told to go put away. She takes it to her room and throws it on the floor. Later, she needs something out of the bag, so she dumps it on the floor and grabs what she needs. Anyway....you get the idea. It exhausts me trying to stay on top of her.

Close the door. If she is big enough to leave clothes lying around, she is big enough to learn to run the washing machine and dryer. Keep interrupting her fun to go get the bag. Eventually she should get the idea.

 

She never picks up ANYTHING unless somebody makes her. That being said, when we ask her to clean her room she goes into hermit mode. She "can't do it"....it's "too hard". I get that she's overwhelmed, but I've taught her all the tricks (start with one thing - all the garbage, or all the clothes, or in one area - under her desk, her closet, etc..). She has all the tools, but still refuses to do it herself and spends all day pouting in her room instead of just doing it.

Instead of cleaning the entire room have her make the bed. When she is finished with that have her straighten out the drawers that are hanging open. Then do something with the laundry. Give her specific jobs to do, one at a time. Go clean your room is overwhelming, go make your bed should be doable.

We've taken away priveleges, offered rewards, etc.....nothing works. She always wants us to sit in there with her while she does it. I can't do that forever.

 

Anybody have a kid like this??? How do you handle it?? I'm ready to lose my mind!

Good luck

Edited July 1, 2010 by Parrothead

[Ester Maria]

I'm quite surprise you tolerate it at that age and haven't done anything about it yet - it's a typical bad habit, and bad habits become worse and solidify with TIME, which is why such behaviors are to be nipped in the bud - somewhere in preschool or early grades, when you notice the trend starting.

 

My understanding is that your daughter does not understand just how rude and how selfish her behavior is towards other members of the household, particularly towards you - my first step would be to make it VERY clear to her, in those very precise terms: "When you do not pick up after yourself, somebody else has to pick up after you in order to secure the minimal hygienic and aesthetic standards of the house. That means that when you do not pick up after yourself, you create work for other people, you add to their workload - and that is an extremely selfish thing to do and just intolerable from somebody who is physically capable of doing it, in fact even more so given that it is your own mess. I do not understand how can you, as a physically and mentally capable and smart child, allow yourself to behave that way, how are you not ashamed with the standards of behavior you adhere to, since they are so much below what should be expected from a child like you. Your continuous disrespect towards me and towards other members of the family intolerable. With the amount of downright rude whining for having to clear your own mess you have fallen really low, and so are very low your cheap excuses about it being hard, for we in this family hold you on a higher standard about what constitutes easy and hard. I am very disappointed with the standards you have chosen to adhere to and with the selfish and spoiled behavior that you have repeatedly demonstrated in this area of life. When I see you behaving this way, I worry how will you be able to grow up to become a responsible adult, if at this age we are still battling the battles that should have ended some five years ago. At the present you are not fulfilling the basic character and work expectations for your age and I am in fact quite ashamed of the fact you are putting me in the situation of having to talk to you this way. I still hold you to a higher standard than this and I expect you to start behaving accordingly."

 

If you do it one-on-one, in peace, looking at her straight in the eyes and in a low voice with a sharp, cutting tone, it is BOUND to work unless you have an extremely insensitive child (and if you do, in that case you have a bigger problem than cleanliness in your house). Most of the children, in fact most of the adults you are close to and reproach about something in that manner, totally break or at least seriously consider what you have to say. A method to use only in special circumstances (otherwise it "wears off" and is no longer a "big deal"), but it works.

 

I would not dream of being nice and trying to accommodate her or make it "fun" or anything along those lines if one of my daughters told me "it's too hard" to pick up after themselves, with the bare minimum I require from them with regards to the household chores. We have a maid (which is why they're spared a decent chore load that most children have) and if I see a maid picking something after them more than once in a few weeks (rarely it can happen and I won't make it a fuss), they're in trouble. I don't allow them to treat people as their servants - not even a paid maid will put off their glasses from the table and their clothes to the closet, LET ALONE me, at that age. The BASIC rule of a peaceful coexistence is not to add the work to others (i.e. pick up after yourself), and for a child who doesn't "get" the subtle cues, I would make sure to make it explicit on just how intolerable such a behavior is.

[LatinTea]

Oh, dear, I thought you were writing about MY dd. I hate to tell you this, truly I do, but my dd was like this when she was 5 and now that she is 15, she is STILL this way. Totally like you said. Drawers left open with socks hanging out, open for DAYS on end. Candy wrappers under her pillowcase and how many dishes I have found, long lost spoons, forks, and old food rotting in a corner. I can't begin to tell you how the bathroom looks after she takes a shower! Her brother can tell you, but it wouldn't be pretty. :001_smile: It boggles the mind.

 

I don't get how she can live with her room like this! I have spent untold hours, days of my life, cleaning and organizing her room FOR HER. She will then have it back to her state of upheaval in no time. The other day I went into her room to hang something up in her closet and when I opened it up, most of her clothes were on the rod, yes they were, but NOT on hangers, only hanging over the rod like you would the back of a chair! Dear, why, oh why did I start digging around in there? An hour later, I had fixed her closet yet again.

 

I should have learned MY lesson early on. SHE has to want to keep it tidy, not ME. Punishments, tried that, many times, but it's just not in her being to keep her room clean right now. Maybe later, when she's 20, I don't know if it will ever happen. Until then, well, I just gotta look on the bright side, at least she knows how to match up one sock with another sock even though they aren't exactly the same. Who's gonna know the difference anyway? ;)

[Garga]

It will be insanely messy for a while (perhaps for a long while), but eventually she will get fed up with it herself and start cleaning it.

 

My room was a mess from the time I was 12 until I moved out at 19 to get married. (my mom helped me with it until I was 12.)

 

My house was a mess from the time I was married (19) until my first son started crawling (30.)

 

The only reason I learned how to clean was because I didn't want my son to pick up something filthy and eat it off the floor. (I used to vacuum about twice a year. I'm not kidding. And I was 30 years old.)

 

I didn't know how to clean, but mostly I didn't want to clean. Once I finally had to learn, I used flylady. Now I'm down to a very simple daily routine and it's working (for the past 7 years.) My house isn't spotless, but it's presentable and pleasant. I'm not embarrassed when people come by. There there are dust bunnies under the bed and a few cobwebs in the unused corners, but the dishes are always done, the sinks and toilets are done, the furniture is dusted and the rugs are swept. It's sanitary and uncluttered.

 

Not really any advice other than the fact that she'll probably never want to clean and probably won't do it (even if it's filthy) unless you make her. Do your best to keep up with her about putting stuff away as she uses it (my ds does the same things you're describing...leaving a path of destruction.) And then institute daily cleaning routines for the room and standing over her to get them done each day. (Bed made b4 breakfast. Books put away after breakfast. CDs put away b4 lunch. Clothes picked up after lunch, etc.)

Edited July 1, 2010 by Garga

[Paintedlady]

Sounds exactly like my dd, also 10, and to a lesser degree my 9 yr. old ds. I've been equally frustrated and here's what I finally came up with that doesn't have me screaming like a shrew.

 

Every morning and every night before bed they have to do a 10 minute cleanup. They have to make their beds, pick up anything on the floor, put away clothes, etc... Then once a week they're required to dust and vacuum. I help/supervise the vacuuming at this point, b/c if I don't it will only get partially done. :glare: I figure they'll keep learning and getting better at it as we go along until one day they can do it without my supervision.

[cougarmom4]

One idea is to take index cards--on each one write exactly what needs to be done; connect them with a little ring-thingy...so you might have 5-6 cards that say:

 

Make bed & fix pillows on top

Pick up dirty clothes & put in basket

Put books back on bookshelf

Put toys away

Pick up any trash & put in trashcan

Awesome job! You're done!

 

 

You could also make a 'deep-clean' set of cards...for one morning a week when she needs to do a little more than a quick straighten. Perhaps these cards would say:

 

Take dirty laundry to laundry room

Clean off the top of desk & dresser

Fix shoes in floor of closet & hang up any clothes

Vacuum

Change sheets on bed

Wahoo! Way to go!

 

Actually...you can do different sets of cards in different colors for different jobs...(cleaning the bathroom, family room, cleaning the guinea pig cage, etc). For my kids, I think it really helps to have just ONE thing listed on each card...and then being able to flip through them is a visual way to see that you are almost done.

[Stacia]

Check out the book Conquering Chronic Disorganization (your library may have it; ours did).

 

A friend of mine first got it to read because her dd is highly visual (and my friend, the mom, is not) & she was hoping to find ways to 'orgainze' or to set up 'systems' that would work for her dd (i.e., the dd would actually use whatever the system is). My friend then recommended it to me. I found it fascinating because the author tackles setting up systems/routines that appeal to differerent types of people (auditory, visual, etc...). It is definitely not your run-of-the-mill type organization book. The author presents some really innovative ways to tackle things.

 

All this to say, maybe you need to change the system to fit your dd's style rather than trying to change your dd's habits/methods. Kwim?

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Okay....now to try and remember everything I wanted to respond to, LOL!

 

I've done the whole go in and delegate thing soooo many times. I've taught her how to start with one thing or one area and then move on to something else when that's done. I've taught her not to focus on the whole project but only on that one thing at a time. I've sat with her and asked for her help with organizing and tried not to micro organize in the sense that it was easier to have just one drawer for all her little things than to try to organize everything by type. That way she can just "shove" (like she likes to do so much) it all in one place. So, how many times or for how long do you go in and sit with your child?? At some point don't they need to learn to do it themselves? At what point do you decide that you've taught them well and they just need to step up and DO IT?? I truly struggle with this ALL THE TIME! I don't know at what point she's just abusing the situation and saying she needs my help because she prefers I be in there while she does it.

 

I have talked to her so many times about the extra work she creates for everyone else, and how hard it is for me to do fun things with her when I have to spend all my time cleaning up after her. I've used examples of myself (what if I just decided I didn't feel like cleaning up after dinner and left all the dirty pans and dishes and leftovers in the kitchen, what would happen?). She gets it, and feels bad, but never changes her behavior. I swear it's like she's just incapable. She truly beats herself up over it. She even got herself to a point of clinical depression over being in trouble all the time. We took her to the psychologist for the ADD testing, and based on the information we provided, she decided to do a whole battery of tests, and came back with a diagnosis of ADD, situational depression, and anxiety. She's started an anxiety med that has really helped with the outbursts of frustration and anger, and makes her more level headed, but........it doesn't seem to matter the amount of harping, or serious talks I give. She gets it, but can't seem to execute.

 

I feel like I'm rambling. It's a tough situation to describe.

 

ETA: I also wanted to say that the index card idea is wonderful! As well as making the organization accessible to her easily (putting the basket where she drops her books, etc...). These are both ideas I think I'll try.

[NanceXToo]

So, again, I say: Why not just stay with her? Why not spend 5-10 minutes a day keeping her company and delegating a bit as needed while she does a quick, daily straightening that will prevent things from ever getting that out of control? That's really all it should take if made part of the daily routine. Why is that such a big deal? Why would a parent be willing to try yelling, lecturing, guilt-tripping, punishing, withholding, bribing, and everything BUT saying, "sure, I'll keep you company."

 

It's a pretty minor request. It really is. Use the time to read her a book while she cleans. Or to chat about your day or your future plans or whatever. Help her a little bit even- work is always more pleasant when someone is helping you do it. I try to remember with my daughter that she helps me as needed, when I'm cleaning the kitchen, or living room or cleaning out the car or doing yardwork or whatever. She'll help me as asked/needed. So it shouldn't be a big deal for me to help her a little bit in her space, too.

 

It seems like a simple solution to me, and preferable to the constant power struggle, stress, and certainly preferable to my child getting depressed etc. You said nothing else works... but she's told you what will work for her. Having you keep her company. Have you considered why you are so unwilling to compromise with her in that regard?

[k2bdeutmeyer]

It's not that I'm unwilling, I just don't want her to always need me there I guess. At some point (when/where this point is, I don't know) doesn't she need to be able to do this on her own? Sure, it's much easier to go sit on her bed and watch her do it.....which is why I have and do sometimes, but I do want her to be able to do it without me too.

[Julie in AZ]

My dd10 is EXACTLY like this! Finally, at the beginning of the summer, I tied her room being clean to computer time (she's allowed 1/2 hour a day on the computer and she wants that 1/2 hour). I spent a full day with her helping her clean and organize everything. I made a list of what constitutes a clean room. For us, it's a made bed, nothing on the floor, nothing on the beds, and only a few select items on her dressers, desk, and bedside table. If her room is clean, she gets her 1/2 hour. (I considered tying this to swimming, because she also loves doing that, but then on days when it's raining or we're gone for a majority of the day, her room wouldn't get cleaned). So far (knock on wood!) this is working. Her room never gets too messy to overwhelm her because she is cleaning daily. And I only had to remind her for the first week or so...now she cleans and then asks me if she can go on the computer.

 

This is a great idea! It would work here. Have you tried anything like this?

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Yeah, the privelege thing just doesn't work for her. It's "easier" (in her mind) to accept the "punishment" or loss of privelege than to just do the work. However, the list thing, I like. I really like it in the format of the index cards like someone else mentioned.

[NanceXToo]

It's not that I'm unwilling, I just don't want her to always need me there I guess. At some point (when/where this point is, I don't know) doesn't she need to be able to do this on her own? Sure, it's much easier to go sit on her bed and watch her do it.....which is why I have and do sometimes, but I do want her to be able to do it without me too.

 

She won't ALWAYS need you there lol. Someday, when she's dating, grown, gone, you'll probably be really, really nostalgic for the days when she did. But trust me, she won't. She's only 10. She's not doing this to be hateful. She's not a robot you can just program to go, she's a young girl (with ADD no less) who you already acknowledged WANTS to please you, and feels bad when she doesn't (VERY bad apparently), but she has a hard time with this (which is normal based on all the "my daughter is the same way!" responses you got, and she's asking you for a really simple compromise.

 

I know some people don't agree with me and feel like they have to just put their foot down at all costs but I'd rather have a mutual respect and a willingness to compromise than feel like I have to conquer or that if my kid doesn't learn X, Y or Z as a child she's doomed to being an incompetent adult. I just don't believe that's true. Some things will improve with age no matter what, and I think this is one of them.

 

That's all I'll say on the subject because I'm not looking to end up in a debate or coming across as too know it all or anything like that! I just wanted to give you a different point of view. Good luck with everything either way! :)

 

ETA: Just to throw it out there as another thought, some people allow their children to keep their own room in any shape they want to. If they want to live in a messy room, fine. It's their space. They can keep their doors shut. The two rules are no food garbage in the room (yuck) and there must be at least a clear path to the door for fire safety reasons.

Edited July 1, 2010 by NanceXToo

[k2bdeutmeyer]

She won't ALWAYS need you there lol. Someday, when she's dating, grown, gone, you'll probably be really, really nostalgic for the days when she did. But trust me, she won't. She's only 10. She's not doing this to be hateful. She's not a robot you can just program to go, she's a young girl (with ADD no less) who you already acknowledged WANTS to please you, and feels bad when she doesn't (VERY bad apparently), but she has a hard time with this (which is normal based on all the "my daughter is the same way!" responses you got, and she's asking you for a really simple compromise.

 

I know some people don't agree with me and feel like they have to just put their foot down at all costs but I'd rather have a mutual respect and a willingness to compromise than feel like I have to conquer or that if my kid doesn't learn X, Y or Z as a child she's doomed to being an incompetent adult. I just don't believe that's true. Some things will improve with age no matter what, and I think this is one of them.

 

That's all I'll say on the subject because I'm not looking to end up in a debate or coming across as too know it all or anything like that! I just wanted to give you a different point of view. Good luck with everything either way! :)

 

I very much appreciate it, because I often do feel the pressure to hold fast and put my foot down. I truly don't know where and when to draw the line and when to say "it's okay".

[Garga]

I very much appreciate it, because I often do feel the pressure to hold fast and put my foot down. I truly don't know where and when to draw the line and when to say "it's okay".

 

You know what? After reading your response about your sweetie pie getting clinically depressed over this, I'm going to say it:

 

It's okay.

 

Stay with her while she cleans. Read to her. Do a little bit of the cleaning with her. Let this be your mother/daughter ritual. Let this be where some sweet memories will be made. It really, really is ok.

[PeterPan]

Did your psychologist did a full sensory motor exam and IQ? There is an actual function level of the brain called executive function. You have the most basic functions (primitive reflexes, etc.), visual motor, and they just keep increasing in development and maturity till you get to that executive level. So IF your kid has a glitch anywhere along there (which many kids with ADD, dyslexia, etc. do), you end up with the later things in the path not working quite right. There are therapies that improve executive function, for instance Interactive Metronome. You can research it and see for yourself.

 

Next thing is that while this is not fun for you, it IS an actual problem, a brain problem. You are not a bad mom, have not done a bad job, and it's not a time to open yourself up to a lot of criticism, frankly. And you need to stop criticizing her. I NEVER yell at my dd over her room or anything else. Every so often I go in and clean it for her. I invite her to help me think of methods she'd like to store the things she uses most. I tolerate a certain amount of periodic mess. By that I mean I let it get to a certain stage and then suggest to her it's time to bring it back down. I enter her spaces for which she is accountable (bedroom, bath) DAILY so I always know the state of them and can remember to nudge her.

 

As a couple others said, there is something about their brains that requires everything to be out. I THINK it may be a working memory deficit, something they test in IQ testing, but we haven't had that done yet. Working memory is like the RAM in your brain, so literally when you start, you run out of gas and forget to follow through. That's what is happening, and it's obviously something she is, at a level, aware of and frustrated about. Do you know there are therapies for working memory deficits? Again, something to research. Cogmed, Brainware Safari, and PACE. The PACE tutoring is something you can do *after* VT, OT, IM, etc., because PACE pulls it all together and starts applying it to schoolwork. They'll write and work on processing while a metronome is going in the background, loading up inputs and things they have to handle at once, that type thing. But it all needs the neurological foundation of dealing with the lower level problems VT and OT can fix.

 

In other words, I would start looking for the cause and stop calling her bad. She isn't bad, clearly. She WANTS to do better. I can't tell you how starting into these therapies (VT so far) has changed our lives. It is so gratifying for dd to know she WASN'T being bad, that she DOESN'T have to be yelled at any more, and that people can HELP her do the things she wants. So change the dynamic; start looking for the cause.

 

Oh, and I think you'll get a lot more helpful responses for the therapy options side of this on the Special Needs board. That's what she is. :)

 

BTW, my dd is like yours. My ds is totally the opposite. At 15 months he was unloading the dishwasher. When he eats, he brings you the dishes to put in the dw, even if he's in another room. He puts the lid back on food he uses and tries to put them away. He is a TOTALLY different child. It's NOT just personality and it's NOT that I've become a better parent, lol. My dd clearly has some brain issues and my ds doesn't. I don't take the blame for my dd any more than I take the praise for my ds.

Edited July 2, 2010 by OhElizabeth

[Renee in NC]

Ester Maria, I want you to know that I really like your posts. Even when what you say makes me angry, most of the time I can reflect on it and see that you are right.

 

I have a whole houseful of children like the OP's and they are that way because I have allowed them to be.

 

ETA: I can see other peoples' points about special needs - I have several children with those, too. That just means that I need to work harder to have them overcome and/or adapt. They can't use their disabilities as an excuse (and neither can I!)

[k2bdeutmeyer]

She did have IQ testing done (she scored very high), and nothing was mentioned about executive function or any defecits for that matter. She IS going to therapy with the psychologist every week, but they've been focusing on her social skills, which was another area of concern (she tends to be VERY bossy and controlling while also being impulsive).

 

DH and I talked yesterday and decided that we would pull back on our expectations a little, and also talked to DD about maybe moving some organizing around to help fit her problem areas better. She identified that she tends to get out pens/pencils and set them on the edge of her desk. She then said, "maybe I could set my pen/pencil box on there instead, so when I put my pen down it's in the box". So, she's getting the idea.

 

FWIW, the pyschologist told us (when this issue was brought up) that we had given her all the appropriate tools, and at this point the ball is in her court. Less talk (don't try to reason with her, argue, whatever). Send her to her room to do it, and just keep telling her she CAN do it. Yesterday this did work to an extent. She did make quite a bit of progress.

 

So maybe a mix of everything suggested is the best method.

[Hockey Mom]

Tell her that she has to keep the common areas clean but can keep her room however she wants it (with ground rules like no food allowed in there).

It will be insanely messy for a while (perhaps for a long while), but eventually she will get fed up with it herself and start cleaning it. My aunt did this with my cousin and it worked REALLY well - it was messy for about a year or so honestly (my cuz said it was the only thing she felt like she had any control over in her life and the only way she could rebel - for what its worth) but then she got frustrated with not finding anything and embarassed when friends came over - and she started cleaning it all on her own. She is a very tidy adult now too :)

 

My parents went with this method for ME. My room was a constant state of chaos. As long as there wasn't food in my room, they just kept the door closed, and left me alone. When I became a teen, and wanted friends over, I learned real quick that a tidy room was far less embarrassing.

 

With my own kids, I let them mess it up as much as they want, but at the end of the day they have 20 minutes to clean it all up or I bring in a garbage bag. I've had to donate two bags of toys before they realized I meant business. It sucks because it seems like such a waste to donate toys that are really nice, but sometimes lessons are hard to learn.

 

Also, since my boys share a room, they have twice the number of toys/clothing that most kids have in their rooms. When they were 4/5 years old, we instituted a new rule: no new toys unless you donated/threw away an old toy. They have a rubbermaid container for their toys. If the lid doesn't fit on it properly, then they have to remove a toy for donation. It's really helped us to stay organized.

[Beth in OH]

I have a "kid" like this, including the ADD, although she is now 20 :001_huh:.

 

I'm going to give some input from the ADD angle, because executive functioning skills are a real bugaboo for many (most?) people with ADD, and you want to try to set her up for as much success as possible. That will alleviate some of your frustration, and importantly, she will not view herself as a failure in your eyes. You're heading into those important adolescent years where your dd will be forming much of her self-concept.

 

First, if you haven't been doing so, read up on how ADD affects adolescents. Try to understand how her brain perceives the problem of the messy room, and work from there.

 

If you haven't read Driven from Distraction, Hallowell and Ratey, start there. It's a good foundational book on ADD (Delivered from Distraction--same authors focuses on teens and adults with ADD). I found the book, Teenagers with ADD and ADHD, Chris Zeigler Dendy to be helpful for understanding how ADD affects this age group and for giving me some practical "how to" advice. Finally, I found the book, ADD Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life, by Kolberg and Nadeau to be a good read for me. I learned a lot, and found the strategies to be helpful--even for ME! :lol:

 

Hang in there! You are at a great stage to help your daughter learn strategies. Just remember, though, that people with ADD know things, they just have problems translating the knowing into doing. Arm yourself with patience, and find yourself an outlet for your own frustrations.

 

FWIW, the messy room is not the "fire burning brightest" in my 20 yo's world of constantly battling executive function deficits. She lives at home, goes to college, and works a job. I close the door. When her mess spills into our common living areas or I notice I no longer have any clean glasses in my cupboard :tongue_smilie:, I respectfully address the issue with her. We fought a lot of battles over this stuff throughout her teen years (before she was diagnosed with ADD, and before I had learned about the disorder). I wish I had a "do over" on those years. (We're all doing OK, now, though!)

 

Beth

[k2bdeutmeyer]

Thanks Beth! That is exactly it....she KNOWS, but can't make it happen!

[Beth in OH]

You should see how my dd does her laundry!:willy_nilly: I avert my eyes and bite my tongue. Remember, she's 20, not 10. :001_smile:

[hornblower]

Meh - she's a kid. I think this is normal. Some kids are neat, some kids are not.

 

I like the idea of the index cards on a ring, one specific cleaning thing on the card. Or you can make a quick list in a page protector which you stick to her wall. My ds had a list for a long time - I put clip art pics in it so it was visual & easy for him to glance at & be reminded about what needed doing. Make it simple & make it easy & make it detailed.

 

Like - "pick up all items from the floor". Have a bin for it if necessary. Once stuff is in a bin, it looks neater. I'd try to do a quick clean up every evening. I'd do it WITH her, while you chat about the day that's almost over or your plans for the next day.

 

Don't make a big deal of it, and don't make the clean up be a big huge, must be perfect thing. Just straighten & neaten & shove away the stuff that's easy to put away. Once a week plan a more thorough clean up and again do it with her - that's when you empty & sort out all the bin stuff. If you do it while chatting or listening to an audio book etc, it can be a fun, reasonably painless thing to do.

[WishboneDawn]

I'm at a loss. I just don't know what to do anymore.

 

First, forget the lazy thing. Chances are that's not the issue at all.

 

DD is 10 and ADD. I also think she is just lazy. She's the type to go into the kitchen to get a pen out of the junk drawer and then just leave the drawer hanging open and leave the pen sitting on the table when she's done. She will then go into the bathroom to get a cotton ball, leave the cupboard door open, and the bag of cotton balls sitting on the counter. I am CONSTANTLY harping on her. I don't expect our house or her room to be perfect, but it would be nice if she could learn to throw her trash in the garbage can instead of leaving it on the couch or the floor, and to pick up what she drops instead of stepping over it.

 

I'm ADD myself and here's what happens:

 

I go for the pen and that's all that's on my mind. If I don't focus on getting that pen I'll be distracted and lose the thought and 15 minutes later realize I'm checking my email or folding laundry when I was supposed to be getting a pen.

 

Working on keeping that focus is hard. It's the opposite of lazy. It's a fight against the tendencies of your brain to wander and it can be a real battle at times.

 

Anyway, the pencil is finally found and I'm so focused on that and getting back to what I meant to do with the pen that the fact that the drawer is still open simply doesn't register. Same with the cupboards and cotton balls.

 

And the frustration for the person with the ADD is that they managed to accomplish what they set out to do without distraction and this other person comes in harping about a drawer or a few cotton balls on the counter. Don't they realize what I just managed? :) Honestly, one of the most hurtful things is winning a small victory and having a loved one see nothing but carelessness or laziness.

 

Don't fence yourself in with the laziness label. What you may need to do is actually commit to taking some time with her to actually practice closing drawers and putting stuff away. Take ten minutes a couple of times a day and send her on some missions ("Can you get me a butter knife from the utensil drawer please?"). Have her physically get the knife several times over, opening AND closing the drawer to make it a matter of routine for her so it's not one more thing she has to worry about being distracted from or forgetting. Pick stuff that's a frequent issue like the drawers or cupboard doors. As new issues come up, tackle them kindly but with discipline. Involve her in making snacks, crafts and baking by first having her be the one to get stuff and put it away so she learns that's a fundamental part of any routine.

 

But never think that once she's tackled it in one area she's going to remember it for another. She may be awesome with closing kitchen drawers but never carries that knowledge over to her dresser drawers without more drills and help. To her there's little relation between the two because her focus and attention works differently. She'll be thinking clothes and pens, not the obvious (to you) relationship of drawers.

 

Her room is constantly a disaster. I have gone through (spent 8+hrs in there with her) her room and organized everything - including a place for everything and labels. She just never puts anything away. She digs through her drawers for something to wear and leaves the clothes laying everywhere on her floor and drawers hanging open. Then she gets out some beads for a project and leaves them on the floor with the clothes. They, of course, get kicked over and spilled everywhere. Then she packs a bag of things to do while we go to __________ (fill in the blank - anywhere), which she leaves in the car and then gets told to go put away. She takes it to her room and throws it on the floor. Later, she needs something out of the bag, so she dumps it on the floor and grabs what she needs. Anyway....you get the idea. It exhausts me trying to stay on top of her.

 

She has no organizing skills. You going in there and organizing things will do little because a) it may have NO relation to how she actually needs things to be and b) once there's a small chink in your system she has no idea to correct it or may not even see the problem until it snowballs out of control.

 

She needs a LOT less things in her room and a LOT more guidance in actually doing the organization herself. Again, practice closing drawers with her. Make it a reflex for her. When she brings a bag of stuff back from somewhere don't tell her to put it away, she doesn't know how, go in with her and take out the things one by one and ask her where they go and have her put them away. You can't just tell her to do things and leave her to her own devices.

 

She never picks up ANYTHING unless somebody makes her. That being said, when we ask her to clean her room she goes into hermit mode. She "can't do it"....it's "too hard". I get that she's overwhelmed, but I've taught her all the tricks (start with one thing - all the garbage, or all the clothes, or in one area - under her desk, her closet, etc..). She has all the tools, but still refuses to do it herself and spends all day pouting in her room instead of just doing it.

 

I don't think you do get how overwhelming it is.

 

For instance, you say you've taught her to start with one thing. But she sits in her room with EVERYTHING around her demanding her attention all at once with no means of knowing how to focus just one thing. And if she does, if she chooses to hang up the sweater then as she does that she may see the pin on it and remember where she got it and take it back to her bed to take it off and put in her jewelery box but before she gets to that she remembers the beads that maybe should be in the box too and goes of to find them and as she's digging findsa comic book she hasn't read in a few weeks and starts to read it....By that time the memory that she's supposed to be cleaning is LONG gone. Or she just sits there because she has an idea of what will happen and feels it's hopeless anyway.

 

You know what to do. You go into a room and you can see what needs to be done and break into into smaller jobs and construct and order in which to tackle them. She can't. Your brain filters the info through seives so you can sort of what you need. Hers doesn't. She sees it all at once with no sense of how to order it. If she manages to focus on of one things then her focus zooms in on that to the exclusion of everything else and all is lost. She's caught in a catch-22.

 

So very kindly and respectfully help her make her room as empty as possible. Cut down on her clothes. Put the books on a bookshelf in another room, most toys in the playroom, take out any unneeded decorations and furniture. Then commit to helping her develop an organization system that works for her (although it may make little sense to you) and being there everyday to help her build those reflexive routines that will help her manage her space. Gradually re-introduce stuff as she gets capable of managing what she has.

 

ADD isn't just normal with a few extra obstacles in regard to focus. It often means a person receives information and deals with it in fundamentally different ways from "normal" people. It's a bit like you're expecting her to walk while not being able to see that she hasn't got any legs.

 

 

We've taken away priveleges, offered rewards, etc.....nothing works. She always wants us to sit in there with her while she does it. I can't 'do that forever.

 

Of course she wants you in there. You provide the structure and direction that she doesn't have herself. Of course the person with bad vision wants the glasses. They give her the vision she doesn't have herself.

 

You probably won't be doing it forever but she is only 10 years old and has a significant impairment in this area so you likely will have to be in there for a few years to come and you will have help her work on strategies for longer than that.

 

But you do need to remember that she's not just sitting in her room doing nothing. She's sitting in there thinking about how she's completely unable to do something that everyone else around her maintains is really simple. She's coming up with reasons why and they're likely things like laziness or stupidity.

 

One last thing, is she on meds? I know a lot of people are hesitant but the ability to sort and order information easily was one of the things that I noticed immediately when I started taking mine. It was tremendously freeing and a great relief for those living with me. Meds aren't the be-all, end-all of dealing with ADD but they can be a helpful tool. Other then that, I think you need to do a lot of reading on ADD, hopefully by ADD people themselves, and prepare for a LOT of work helping her learn the very basics, and that's with or without meds.

 

I still struggle with this stuff. Still leave drawers open, still get overwhelmed to the point of simply shutting down when faced with some things and I'm 37. But I'm much, much better then I was as a kid. Partly because of meds and partly the result of a lot of work on structure and routine.

 

Good luck!

[CLHCO]

:lurk5:

 

I have the attention span of a goldfish, so I haven't finished reading all the comments yet, but this is soooo my house!

 

I am like this, though I'm far better than I was. My husband is like this, not from distraction as much as from allowed habits when young. My oldest daughters are the worst, far worse than I ever was, and at least one of them is exactly as you described with your daughter. I suspect she's always been ADD, though has learned to manage it where learning is concerned, just not so much, uh, household functioning.

 

One little trick I haven't done in some time that seems to help - when the room is spotless, take a picture of it from different angles. Sounds silly, but after a time we just don't "see" the messes. Have her compare her room each day to the picture. I loved the idea of setting an alarm each day as a cleaning time reminder too. A visual of what is expected helps though.

 

I'll go back tonight when it's quiet and try to catch some of the rest of the conversation.

[k2bdeutmeyer]

WishboneDawn - Thank you so much for your lengthy reply!! It's funny, because as I read it......I "get it" probably WAY more than you know or than I've shared. That overwhelmed....don't know where to start feeling is ME! I have shared this with DD before, and the method of starting with one type of object, or one area of the room that I've taught her is how I've learned to cope myself. It's also probably why her constant trail of clutter is so distressing to me. Once you add in the clutter from a 3yr old and a 13 month old *I* get overwhelmed with just the main living areas of my house. It's a never ending battle.

 

Anyway....regarding meds - she started with an ADD med that made her dizzy and she didn't like taking. After going back to they psychologist, she felt like our biggest frustrations were in DD's reactions not her actions, and she felt that what we were describing was more related to her anxiety than ADD. So, she's on Celexa for right now, with the idea that we may add in an ADD med at some point. The Celexa has made a HUGE change for us!! She doesn't fly off the handle like she used to and is much easier to work with.