Disturbed about an article on Girl Scouts...

[i.love.lucy]

But I'm not sure how to substantiate it. This is the article. It's all over my Facebook, friends forwarding to friends and making me feel like a terrible mom for having my dd involved with such a terrible organization. But I don't want to blindly believe it if it has questionable sources or is a flat out lie. I've Googled, etc, and have found that the article appears true.

 

If this article is in fact true, I have a very big problem with an organization like this disseminating this kind of information to young girls and would absolutely NOT support it any longer. I have heard about their support of/involvement with Planned Parenthood for a long time, and based on *my* belief system, I shouldn't be supporting GS. But, I've turned a blind eye because we've never seen anything like this at our level. But I have a hard time believing it because of the parents and other sponsors (our largest Catholic church in our area hosts many meetings).

 

I'm not sure what I'm asking. Maybe...have you heard about this? What's the best way to determine if it's true?

[Ellie]

Yes, it is true. Why would you think it isn't? The source you linked is a legtimate one, isn't it?

 

Here's a link to a PDF file of the actual brochure.

[Pink Fairy]

I haven't heard about this before, but I won't be at all surprised if it's true. It's the sort of thing I would expect from the Girl Scouts.

[Ibbygirl]

Yes, it is true. Why would you think it isn't? The source you linked is a legtimate one, isn't it?

 

Here's a link to a PDF file of the actual brochure.

 

I started reading the brochure and I had to stop. When they say "young people" just how young are these people supposedly?? And what do they mean "if" you choose to disclose your HIV status. I would think your partner has a right to their "sexual health" as well. :confused::confused: Just... wow! :001_huh:

[Sara in AZ]

I was having this same conversation with some friends a few weeks ago. One friend, who is a GS leader, contacted her local council about it and got this reply...

 

 

"I have received limited information about the event, however, I do not believe the pamphlet you sent was distributed to those girls. I was told that this week, an online publication of the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute, alleged that Girl Scouts, by participating in an event at the United Nations earlier this month, helped to distribute Planned Parenthood information at the event. GSUSA had media staff at the event and have shared that this reported information is false.

 

The girl workshop, co-sponsored by GSUSA at the United Nations, was supervised by adults and did not include the distribution of collateral materials of any kind.

 

Co-sponsors for the workshop were GSUSA, UNICEF, Girls Learn International and The Grail. It was part of the 54th Session of the Commission on the Status of Women, held at the United Nations.

 

The workshop conversation was held to formulate a document that would express girls' perspectives on global issues affecting girls.

 

Girl Scouts does not take a position on family planning. The organization's membership is a cross-section of America with regard to opinions on religious and social issues and practices. We believe these matter are best decided by girls and the families.

"

[newlifemom]

I almost wonder if there is a disconnect from the local level and possibly a corporate level. :confused:

[Peela]

It smells fishy to me- it seems too extreme to be true, or something that GS would endorse. The backlash would be too great. Its not in touch with general values or safe sex education. I know it would never be endorsed here. Wel, never say never, but it goes against safe sex practices which are endorsed.

As long as they are not teaching it at your own group level, I personally wouldnt withdraw my child if they were getting a lot out of Scouts. I would do more research befoejumping to conclusions.

[WagsWife]

I am not a GS fan at all...but I saw this on Fox News a couple of weeks ago (O'Rielly maybe). From what I remember, the two women who were talking about it (both Fox Newscasters) said that from what they could tell, there had been nothing that could substantiate C-Fam's claim. All the girls supposedly involved...and their families all deny they were given anything of that nature.

 

I don't know if any proof has came out since...but if there has, I have not heard it.

[OhM]

I almost wonder if there is a disconnect from the local level and possibly a corporate level. :confused:

 

As a girl scout leader, this is absolutely my opinion. A girl's experience in GS will depend almost entirely on the attitude and standards of her local leader. Our troop is run like the co-leader and I remember GS - earning badges (we stick to the "doing" badges rather than the "issues" badges - they're more fun;)), doing service projects, taking trips, learning about leadership, and becoming a well-rounded person.

 

However, we have seen that the national leadership has different goals than us. Another leader in our area attended the nat'l convention a couple summers ago, and came back with stories that girls as young as 10 who visited one of GS's South America sites that year (some do on "Wider Op" trips) were treated to workshops to practice putting condoms on a banana. :001_huh: (The "World Thinking Day" theme that year was "Help stop the spread of malaria, HIV, and other diseases.")

 

Your local leader is the filter. However much she buys into the GSUSA ideas will determine your daughter's GS experience.

[ChristusG]

Even if it is true, why in the world would they hand that out to a group? I read through it and it is for young people who have HIV. So they print them, and hand them out to a group, when that brochure possiblly applies to absolutely no one in that group? That would be like handing out a bunch of "what to do if you have cancer" brochures to them.....its likely not going to apply to majority of them. So what's the point?

 

And I do not agree with what they have written in there. They are talking about "if you disclose your HIV to your sexual partner"??? If you have something as serious as HIV and another person can contract it, you sure as heck better be disclosing it if you are in a sexual relationship with them.

[HayesW]

It is NOT true. An email was sent from GSA regarding this event. I'll go see if I can find it.

 

Here it is!

Subject: Information from Hilary Perry

 

 

Hilary Perry asked to send this statement from GSUSA to all Service Unit Managers.

We believe this information will be part of a newscast tonight.

 

 

 

Last week, an online publication by the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute alleged that Girl Scouts, by participating in an event at the United Nations earlier this month, helped to distribute Planned Parenthood information as a part of the experience. We had adults and GSUSA media staff on the ground at the event and know this information to be false. Below is a statement from GSUSA:

 

Earlier this month, Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) was honored to attend and participate in the 54th Commission on the Status of Women at the United Nations, where girls were encouraged to take action on global issues concerning women and girls. Our participation in that conference was recently the subject of numerous internet stories and blogs that are factually inaccurate and troubling. Here are the facts of that meeting:

 

· The Girls Only Workshop was jointly hosted by Girl Scouts of the USA, UNICEF’s Working Group on Girls, Girls Learn International and The Grail. The meeting was only open to the girls and participating sponsors.

 

· Only seven adults were in the room at the time of the meeting, each representing one of the sponsors of the event. No one from Catholic Family & Human Rights Institute was in the room to report on the event.

 

· 30 - 35 girls from across the world participated in this event. All teenagers.

 

· The girls received a copy of the only document they were working on titled (“The Girls’ Statement”). No other documents were given to the girls as part of this event.

 

· The room in question was also used to host other events over the course of the multi-day conference. Prior to our girls entering the room, we did not “sanitize’ the room to ensure that no trash or other items were left behind. We did request that those not associated with the sponsors to leave the room prior to our session.

 

· The Girl Scouts of the USA was not contacted by Catholic Family & Human Rights Institute (C-FAM) regarding its initial story to discuss the facts of this event. Had they applied these basic journalistic standards, perhaps the true details of this event would have been reported.

 

Our Mission in Girl Scouting is to build girls of courage, confidence and character, who make the world a better place. We continue to be proud of our girls and look forward to showing the world what our girls can do. We thank everyone for their support of Girl Scouting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rhonda Lambert

Vice President for Membership and Programs

1515 Sparkman Drive

Huntsville, AL 35816

256-883-1020 or 1-800-410-8338 ext 227

Fax 256-882-1750

[Teachin'Mine]

Wow - their "rebuttal" sounds more like an admission of guilt to me. They don't say that none of that was discussed - they're just talking logistics. Sad.

 

I agree with what was said about the troop leader being the most important determiner of the scouting experience. Know your leader well and get involved yourself, and you will know whether it's a good experience for your daughter or not.

[knit247]

It is NOT true. An email was sent from GSA regarding this event. I'll go see if I can find it.

 

I don't believe it. See this article I found from the Washington Times.

 

This is precisely why my daughters are in American Heritage Girls instead of the Girl Scouts.

[apmom]

I don't believe it. See this article I found from the Washington Times.

 

This is precisely why my daughters are in American Heritage Girls instead of the Girl Scouts.

 

Just to note, that is in the "opinion" section of the Washington Times...I didn't see any real research there. I'll hold off on judgment until I see some solid journalistic research and responsibility on either side of the argument. My dd isn't old enough for GS, and I don't know if we would ever do it anyway, but these types of "hot" usually have more to them than what the popular debate usually portrays.

[TracyR]

I have yet to hear about anything about planned parenthood in Girl Scouts. A friend of mine is a local GS leader and her husband is an assistant pastor. I know for a fact that if this stuff was being brought up she would no longer continue to lead a GS troop.

 

Should this happen to be true I would talk to your GS leader to confirm it to be true or false first before jumping to conclusions. My girls are in different levels and I have seen nothing to confirm this to be true. My oldest has been a Brownie, Junior and is now a Cadet , my third daughter was a Daisy. So so far I've seen nothing to say this is true.

[knit247]

Just to note, that is in the "opinion" section of the Washington Times...I didn't see any real research there.

 

Good point - I didn't notice that.

 

I do believe, however, that the Girl Scouts has been a supporter of PP and the like for many years, which was why I originally decided to keep my girls far, far away.

[calandalsmom]

GSA does not in anyway support PP. this is one of those rightwing slanderous rumours designed to tarnish an old and reputable organization and I find it infuriating.

[WishboneDawn]

The article is an exercise in implying the worst by association. GS are suspect because they were given a flyer at a meeting. GS are suspect because they hosted an event at the UN. GS are suspect because they were involved in writing a statement that can be made to looked suspect if certain bits of taken out of context and bracketed by quotation marks.

 

Look, if groups that deal with young adults are going to get together to discuss things then one of the topics will inevitably be sex. And if groups get together to talk about sex then inevitably there will be a range of opinions, some of which others may find offensive. But that's the nature of discussion and it should be expected rather then touted as shocking or dissapointing.

 

Good for WAGGS for talking about this. It doesn't mean they have to adopt or agree with every opinion expressed of course.

 

I should also point out that this article refered to WAGGS, NOT the Girl Scouts of America. The GSA is a different organization (although a member of WAGGS) although the article seems to be unclear on that. WAGGS has to address issues the GSA might never have to and the GSA is not bound to adopt WAGGS thinking wholesale without thought for the girls they service.

 

The article is poorly written and badly reasoned and it's purpose seems solely to provoke the reaction it did here.

 

And yes I AM a Girl Guides (we're Guides rather then Scouts in Canada) leader. How did you know? :D

[knit247]

GSA does not in anyway support PP. this is one of those rightwing slanderous rumours designed to tarnish an old and reputable organization and I find it infuriating.

 

In just a quick search online I found several references from 2004 when Kathy Cloninger, CEO of the Girl Scouts of America stated on the Today Show,

 

 

"We partner with many organizations. We have relationships with our church communities, with YWCAs,

and with Planned Parenthood organizations across the country

, to bring information-based sex education programs to girls.†(my bold)

So, apparently they do.

[WishboneDawn]

Wow - their "rebuttal" sounds more like an admission of guilt to me. They don't say that none of that was discussed - they're just talking logistics. Sad.

 

 

The rebuttal clearly contradicts much of what was claimed which should cast the claims as a whole in doubt. Instead you choose to still believe the faulty report and judge WAGGS by it?

[Kari C in SC]

I am a GS leader and have not been given any information on this at all. I attend a service unit meeting each month and am on a email loop for info. I have not been given any material and really could not see our SC Council supporting any of this. As somebody else said - it all really does come down to your leader. My dd has been a girl scout since she was just barely 4 years old. She had a leader in Florida before we moved. I can say without hesitation that it has by far one of the best experiences of her life. When we moved - I became a leader - so she would not lose out on GS. My troop is a homeschool troop with a very wholesome agenda. We do things like make smoothies, decorate aprons, make situpons and play games. We sell cookies to raise money for trips and art supplies. Without the GS association - we would have no way to fund raise. Without cookie sales our trip and activity options would be extremely limited. Other than selling cookies - our GS association is completely hands off. They do not tell us where/when to meet or what to do at our meetings. It is completely up to the leader and individual troop. There are my 2 cents on it.

[i.love.lucy]

Thanks so much for all your replies. I too have been a part of the GS organization for several years and never had seen anything like this on a local level which is why I was confused. And the very fact that we have this back and forth about the validity of the statements in the article is why I asked in the first place. If I'm going to make a decision about organizations we are involved in and support, it's important to me to know what's going on with those organizations (as best I can).

 

I appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses!

[calandalsmom]

In just a quick search online I found several references from 2004 when Kathy Cloninger, CEO of the Girl Scouts of America stated on the Today Show,

"We partner with many organizations. We have relationships with our church communities, with YWCAs,

and with Planned Parenthood organizations across the country

, to bring information-based sex education programs to girls.†(my bold)

So, apparently they do.

 

GSA as an organization does not have a partnership with PP. Individual chapters may choose to have a partnership with PP. Your quote, taken out of context, is misleading.

[OnTheBrink]

 

This is precisely why my daughters are in American Heritage Girls instead of the Girl Scouts.

 

That looks like a neat organization!

[JillZ]

I could imagine the brochures being left by someone else knowing that the Girl Scouts were meeting there. At church, we've had random people who put out brochures on our brochure table, so we always have to be on the lookout for them.

[stripe]

This reminds me a bit of Dr Laura's campaign against libraries, but that being said, there are a lot of opportunities for teen-themed organizations to discuss these issues from various points of view that may not be appropriate from the parents' perspective.

 

What sort of national groups are there for girls / kids besides the Scouts, that are not exclusively for members of one religion? (Other than ones that are focused on, say, one interest like knitting or animals or robots.)

[Ellie]

It smells fishy to me- it seems too extreme to be true, or something that GS would endorse. The backlash would be too great. Its not in touch with general values or safe sex education. I know it would never be endorsed here. Wel, never say never, but it goes against safe sex practices which are endorsed.

 

As long as they are not teaching it at your own group level, I personally wouldnt withdraw my child if they were getting a lot out of Scouts. I would do more research befoejumping to conclusions.

But I heard an interview on the radio, with my own ears, of someone who was actually at the event where this brochure was introduced. And if it were not true, where did the brochure come from?

[ocelotmom]

But I heard an interview on the radio, with my own ears, of someone who was actually at the event where this brochure was introduced. And if it were not true, where did the brochure come from?

 

Conference schedule (hypothetical)

 

Room 253 -

 

9:00: Living with HIV

10:00: Girls Only

 

Room isn't cleaned thoroughly during the 5 minute break between sessions, the organizers don't notice that a stack of "Happy, Healthy, Hot" fliers was left in the room, and girls at the "Girls Only" session get ahold of them.

 

I agree with the person who compared it to handing out a flier for people living with cancer. It makes no logical sense whatsoever to hand out a flier about living with HIV to people who don't have HIV. If it were some generic sex ed pamphlet, I might buy that it was intentional, but everything about this sounds like an honest (though serious) accident.

[FloridaLisa]

This was discussed several weeks ago on the conservative homeschool to college yahoo group. Based on the information provided so far, I find the following of interest:

 

*The Girl Scout organization denies distributing the pamphlet.

 

*No non-Girl Scout adults were allowed in the meeting room.

 

*The Girl Scout organization has not said that the organization disapproves of the PP publication and would never, ever have distributed such a pamphlet.

 

*If the Girl Scout organization disagrees with the pamphlet, there has been no apology for young girls and teens having access to this material during their meeting.

 

*If the Girl Scout organization disagrees with this pamphlet, has there been any instructions to local organizations that this pamphlet is not to be used?

 

Lisa

[abreakfromlife]

with stories that girls as young as 10 who visited one of GS's South America sites that year (some do on "Wider Op" trips) were treated to workshops to practice putting condoms on a banana.

 

I don't have any experience with GS, but it seems that there are two levels - local and global. This was a UN meeting right? So they are going to talk about global sex issues, and I would fully expect a South American girl organization to be talking about sex and condoms with kids and teens. Global sex issues are way worse than they are here in America. Girls in almost every other country, especially in some countries of South America and Eastern Europe and Asia, are at a veryveryveryveryveryvery HIGH risk of rape, kidnapping, and trafficking. These girls absolutely need to know how to protect themselves.

 

I think the brochure goes way beyond that and is inappropriate, but for the example given above, I think that is absolutely appropriate and wise, in that cultural context.

[FloridaLisa]

Conference schedule (hypothetical)

 

Room 253 -

 

9:00: Living with HIV

10:00: Girls Only

 

 

 

This is completely hypothetical right? Do you have any evidence that a group dealing with HIV was meeting prior to the Girl Scouts? That would be perfectly logical, but then, the Girl Scouts could easily have disclosed that information but haven't.

 

Lisa

 

P.S. More telling than anything is the Girl Scout's public statement. GSA could easily say, "Look. We don't know how that pamphlet got into the room. We would never distribute something like that to teens or girls in our troops. We do not agree with the pamphlet and we are sorry that any girls attending our meetings were exposed to this material. We have contact the hosting organization to make sure that rooms are cleaned after each meeting so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again."

[ocelotmom]

This is completely hypothetical right? Do you have any evidence that a group dealing with HIV was meeting prior to the Girl Scouts? That would be perfectly logical, but then, the Girl Scouts could easily have disclosed that information but haven't.

 

Lisa

 

P.S. More telling than anything is the Girl Scout's public statement. GSA could easily say, "Look. We don't know how that pamphlet got into the room. We would never distribute something like that to teens or girls in our troops. We do not agree with the pamphlet and we are sorry that any girls attending our meetings were exposed to this material. We have contact the hosting organization to make sure that rooms are cleaned after each meeting so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again."

No, I don't have evidence, and I'm not trying to claim that this is the One True Answer. The poster I was replying to did not seem to understand where the brochures could have possibly come from if they had not been officially distributed as part of the "Girls Only" session. That was one potential explanation.

 

Other potential explanations - a person unaffiliated with GS purposefully put the brochures in the room, either out of prurient interest or desire to discredit GS. A rogue adult who was officially part of the session gave them out without the knowledge or approval of GS for whatever personal reason she had. Or GS chose to distribute a highly controversial brochure that made absolutely no sense whatsoever given the target audience.

 

Does the latter option honestly seem like the most likely explanation?

 

I do agree with you that the formal statement is rather unclear, and could have been better worded and more apologetic.

[ocelotmom]

What sort of national groups are there for girls / kids besides the Scouts, that are not exclusively for members of one religion? (Other than ones that are focused on, say, one interest like knitting or animals or robots.)

4-H and Campfire Kids are two possibilities. I don't know of any national, widespread, non-religious, girl-specific group other than GS.

[Ellie]

Conference schedule (hypothetical)

 

Room 253 -

 

9:00: Living with HIV

10:00: Girls Only

 

Room isn't cleaned thoroughly during the 5 minute break between sessions, the organizers don't notice that a stack of "Happy, Healthy, Hot" fliers was left in the room, and girls at the "Girls Only" session get ahold of them.

 

I agree with the person who compared it to handing out a flier for people living with cancer. It makes no logical sense whatsoever to hand out a flier about living with HIV to people who don't have HIV. If it were some generic sex ed pamphlet, I might buy that it was intentional, but everything about this sounds like an honest (though serious) accident.

This is not what happened. There was a group of people in a room for the meeting, some of them were asked to leave while the others stayed and were presented the brochure.

 

The interview was on the Drew Mariani show on Relevant Radio; I'm sure if anyone needed to know the specifics, it would be possible to contact the show and get the exact date and whatnot.

[knit247]

GSA as an organization does not have a partnership with PP. Individual chapters may choose to have a partnership with PP. Your quote, taken out of context, is misleading.

 

In just a quick search online I found several references from 2004 when Kathy Cloninger, CEO of the Girl Scouts of America stated on the Today Show,

"We partner with many organizations. We have relationships with our church communities, with YWCAs,

and with Planned Parenthood organizations across the country

, to bring information-based sex education programs to girls.†(my bold)

 

Nothing I did was misleading. I copied the quote word-for-word from here, fifth paragraph. Notice that Cloninger is the CEO of GSA - not an individual council. Presumably she represents GSA and as such is speaking for them.

[WishboneDawn]

I don't have any experience with GS, but it seems that there are two levels - local and global. This was a UN meeting right? So they are going to talk about global sex issues, and I would fully expect a South American girl organization to be talking about sex and condoms with kids and teens. Global sex issues are way worse than they are here in America. Girls in almost every other country, especially in some countries of South America and Eastern Europe and Asia, are at a veryveryveryveryveryvery HIGH risk of rape, kidnapping, and trafficking. These girls absolutely need to know how to protect themselves.

 

I think the brochure goes way beyond that and is inappropriate, but for the example given above, I think that is absolutely appropriate and wise, in that cultural context.

 

I think you've pointed out something key. I know we tend to get upset over these things in NA but frankly WAGGS does not revolve around North America and has to deal with girls facing all kinds of different cultures and situations all over the world. Again, don't get WAGGS mixed up with GSA.

 

Honestly, I can take criticism of WAGGS or Guiding in general (I often dish it myself) but I'd prefer it be about something the organization is actually doing rather then a piece of paper that may or may not have been distributed at a closed meeting that had nothing to do with what local units have to do or even what national groups have to adopt. It was a discussion. Things tend to get discussed in a discussion, sometimes things that some of us may find distasteful.

[Crimson Wife]

According to this article, the room was used that day by the NAACP for a meeting on climate change and a European anti-poverty group for a meeting on counterterrorism. So it seems unlikely that the brochure was intended for use in one of the earlier meetings and left by accident.

[WishboneDawn]

Correction - It's WAGGGS not WAGGS as I was typing. :)

[WishboneDawn]

 

*The Girl Scout organization has not said that the organization disapproves of the PP publication and would never, ever have distributed such a pamphlet.

 

*If the Girl Scout organization disagrees with the pamphlet, there has been no apology for young girls and teens having access to this material during their meeting.

 

*If the Girl Scout organization disagrees with this pamphlet, has there been any instructions to local organizations that this pamphlet is not to be used?

 

Lisa

 

Again, this wasn't the GSA, this was WAGGGS.

 

I imagine if the girls or their families felt an apology was due, they'd ask for one. Does anyone actually know if that's the case?

 

Also, looking for the GS or WAGGGS to approve/disapprove of certain materials isn't appropriate. WAGGGS is not a political/special interest organization. It's there to help girls develop interests and learn leadership skills. It's not there to tell them what their interests are or what issues they need to champion. Local leadership, parents and the girls themselves determine what pamphlets they'll read or not read. In a worldwide organization that has to deal with incredibly diverse cultures it's the only appropriate course.

[dirty ethel rackham]

This is not what happened. There was a group of people in a room for the meeting, some of them were asked to leave while the others stayed and were presented the brochure.

 

The interview was on the Drew Mariani show on Relevant Radio; I'm sure if anyone needed to know the specifics, it would be possible to contact the show and get the exact date and whatnot.

Yeah, and Drew Mariani is a reliable source :001_huh:. He makes Rush Limbaugh seem like a teddy bearl (and I like most programs on Relevant Radio.)

[Ellie]

Yeah, and Drew Mariani is a reliable source :001_huh:. He makes Rush Limbaugh seem like a teddy bearl (and I like most programs on Relevant Radio.)

It wasn't Drew who was reporting on the conference. It was someone who was actually, physically present.

[calandalsmom]

This is a bunch of nonsense cooked up by extremists. Clearly some like what the extremists sell. Anger and ignorance seem very prevalent lately in some circles.

[FloridaLisa]

This is a bunch of nonsense cooked up by extremists. Clearly some like what the extremists sell. Anger and ignorance seem very prevalent lately in some circles.

 

Just the facts M'am. ;)

 

Lisa

[KristenS]

My take ... I hear stories like this and get worried. But my little girl wants to be a scout, and this is the option available to us. So .. here I am, getting ready to set up and lead a Daisy troop. I've been to one training session so far, and can't picture any of those women distributing such things. So ... I think I can trust my local council. Bigger picture? I don't know. But I *do* believe that we as local leaders can set a lot of influence ... and then we can make a change in the larger organization, and so can our girls, if there really is a problem. Just like we want to raise good citizens so they can fix some of the problems of our country. Fix 'em from the inside. :) Instead of just bailing on something I have fond memories of, I am (for the time being), going to work on being an agent of change from the inside. (Hey, isn't that the title of one of the new Journey thingummies? LOL.)

 

I do have to admit, based on the stack of forms I received at said training, I'm really wishing my daughter could be a cub scout! As den leader I've got way less paperwork to handle than this Daisy troop is going to be! Yikes! I think our pack leader is sparing me some work somewhere...

[5kidsforME]

This is a bunch of nonsense cooked up by extremists. Clearly some like what the extremists sell. Anger and ignorance seem very prevalent lately in some circles.

 

 

Can you post a link to back up this claim?

[justamouse]

I don't have any experience with GS, but it seems that there are two levels - local and global. This was a UN meeting right? So they are going to talk about global sex issues, and I would fully expect a South American girl organization to be talking about sex and condoms with kids and teens. Global sex issues are way worse than they are here in America. Girls in almost every other country, especially in some countries of South America and Eastern Europe and Asia, are at a veryveryveryveryveryvery HIGH risk of rape, kidnapping, and trafficking. These girls absolutely need to know how to protect themselves.

 

I think the brochure goes way beyond that and is inappropriate, but for the example given above, I think that is absolutely appropriate and wise, in that cultural context.

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

KristenS, the paperwork was why I quit being a GS leader and am sticking to being a boyscout Den leader. It got to be a flipping nightmare, and that's putting it nicely. Then I couldn't bring the other kids with me, the paperwork for trips was horrid. Pfft.

 

My girls like the stuff we do in boyscouts better, anyway. :D And all of my family gets to go, with no paperwork and we have a blast.

[calandalsmom]

Can you post a link to back up this claim?

 

I think the link has been posted and some have chosen to perceive it as a lie. When given the facts if you still choose to believe the worst of this organization there isnt much one could do to prove you wrong, is there?

[katemary63]

This reminds me a bit of Dr Laura's campaign against libraries, but that being said, there are a lot of opportunities for teen-themed organizations to discuss these issues from various points of view that may not be appropriate from the parents' perspective.

 

What sort of national groups are there for girls / kids besides the Scouts, that are not exclusively for members of one religion? (Other than ones that are focused on, say, one interest like knitting or animals or robots.)

 

4-H is the way to go. It's for both boys and girls. It if family oriented. It is NOT just about animals. In 4-H my girls give speeches, do community service, learn about anything they want to learn about, gain leadership skills, enter into competitions and receive awards, learn to become involved, active citizens, make friends with commom interests, make friends with different interests, learn co-operation and team work and much, much more. 4-H is just plain uncomparable.

[OhM]

I've been to one training session so far, and can't picture any of those women distributing such things. So ... I think I can trust my local council. Bigger picture? I don't know. But I *do* believe that we as local leaders can set a lot of influence ...

 

In our area, the service unit definitely has similar ideas as me, but I'm not so sure about the council. It's located "up in the big city" and most of the women I've met working there are more of the social change mind set than the "activity" mind set.

 

But what you're describing is working well for our troop - there's no shortage of old and new programming material through GS's - as long as you're happy running your own troop, and not hung up on comparing with others (who has the latest and greatest awards, etc.), you can successfully run it pretty much however you please. (And by successful - I mean the girls learn to become self-sufficient leaders, and HAVE FUN!)

 

I do have to admit, based on the stack of forms I received at said training, I'm really wishing my daughter could be a cub scout! As den leader I've got way less paperwork to handle than this Daisy troop is going to be! Yikes! I think our pack leader is sparing me some work somewhere...

 

Ha - we have some unpleasant names for the ladies who are forever harping on our paperwork. We're not completely in compliance, but we've found a way to meet the spirit of what they're trying to do... Just do your best!

 

4-H is the way to go. It's for both boys and girls. It if family oriented. It is NOT just about animals. In 4-H my girls give speeches, do community service, learn about anything they want to learn about, gain leadership skills, enter into competitions and receive awards, learn to become involved, active citizens, make friends with commom interests, make friends with different interests, learn co-operation and team work and much, much more. 4-H is just plain uncomparable.

 

As a GS leader - I totally agree with this! My kids have gotten so much more out of 4-H with so many fewer "girl issues"! They made friends through the entire county - boys and girls, of all ages. If we were going back to do it again, we'd skip GS and just do 4-H. (I was already troop leader when we "discovered" 4-H.) Where in GS we have to push leadership, in 4-H it's a foundational program goal.

[astrid]

4-H is the way to go. It's for both boys and girls. It if family oriented. It is NOT just about animals. In 4-H my girls give speeches, do community service, learn about anything they want to learn about, gain leadership skills, enter into competitions and receive awards, learn to become involved, active citizens, make friends with commom interests, make friends with different interests, learn co-operation and team work and much, much more. 4-H is just plain uncomparable.

 

I will second this, not because I have anything against Girl Scouts, or come from a conservative perspective. (hardly! :001_smile:) Dd started with GS while she was still in public school-- Daisies in Kindergargten, then Brownies and a year with Juniors once she was home. Basically, it was an after-school baby-sitting service. The behavior of the girls was atrocious, and nothing, NOTHING was ever accomplished. Dd had this great handbook of neat badges she wanted to work on and every meeting was taken up with the girls acting up, fighting over snack, running around, being rude and disrespectful toward the leaders, etc. It was a weekly recurring nightmare.

 

Yes, I realize this was probably mostly the fault of the leaders, but really, the girls in the troop were some of the most seriously behaviorally-impacted kids in the school, and there was zero parental involvement. It was an impossible situation.

 

Then we found 4-H, and I have to echo what KateMary63 says-- there is NO comparison.

 

astrid (JMHO, YMMV)