********* Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Someone commented on the other thread that it was interesting how some of us who would disagree about many other things would agree about not saying the pledge. Very interesting observation. I must say, I've not thought about it much. I haven't been in a sitaution where people were saying the pledge for years. However, I can say in all honesty that I would not participate if the situation arose. I'm not even sure if I would stand; to me, that would make it appear as though I agreed with the practice. I haven't taught my children the pledge, and don't intend to. My family's reasons for not saying the PoA is because we will not pledge our alliegance to anything but God. We consider ourselves citizens of Heaven, who happen to live, for this time, in the USA. We are not what anyone would consider 'patriotic'; we do not participate in government outside of keeping the laws (so far as they do not condratict with the Word of God). We also practice non-resistance. Just as an aside, we are not any particular denomination. We claim no title other than Christian; we are simply followers of Christ. I understand, however, that people have many different reasons for not saying the pledge, and I'd be curious as to why others choose not to. Please don't fight. This thread is not about telling others what they should do, or why they are wrong and you are right. I'm just curious as to other's opinions. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't say the pledge because I don't think it's right to pledge my allegiance to a political entity. I prefer to have the freedom to dissent when I feel necessary and not pledge to support a country or government regardless. I don't let my children say the pledge because I think it's wrong to make children pledge something they can't really understand. Tara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixie Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't say the pledge because I don't think it's right to pledge my allegiance to a political entity. I prefer to have the freedom to dissent when I feel necessary and not pledge to support a country or government regardless. I don't let my children say the pledge because I think it's wrong to make children pledge something they can't really understand. Tara :iagree: These are exactly my reasons on the issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newlifemom Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm actually surprised that many Christians (and other religions) say the pledge. It would seem to me that pledging one's allegiance to a country would contradict one's ultimate loyalty to God. You know Wendy, like so many other things, I have never thought about it before. Since I began this homeschooling journey I have begun to question a lot of things that people do, just because that's what you do. I have this board to thank for a lot of it too.:D Off to think about the pledge.:auto: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglin'5 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't have a problem pledging allegiance to a country. My primary allegiance is to God, but Christians are supposed to be good citizens. Now, if the pledge demanded ultimate allegiance that would be a different story. My first objection is the "under God" phrase, oddly enough, because I want to know which God we're talking about. Some kind of plain vanilla generic god, or the Trinitarian God? My second objection is the "indivisible" phrase. As I said in the other thread - Really? Are we sure about that? Pride goeth before a fall. No nation in the history of the world has been utterly immune to destruction or division. To me this seems like a claim to immortality for our nation. :001_huh: I am not sure how strongly I object to this. I have not been saying it for several years, though I do stand in honor of the flag. I'm not sure if this falls under a "pinch of incense to the Roman emperor" seriousness, so I could probably say it with a decent conscience if I was forced to. I might mumble "Trinity" under my breath or something, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 That and I object to the use of "God" in the pledge. Ditto Tara & Wendy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trixie Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 That and I object to the use of "God" in the pledge. I missed this post the first time through, but this is another of my reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shinyhappypeople Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 The biggest reason: I'm a Christian and I owe allegiance to God alone. I'll teach my girls the pledge eventually, because it's an issue of cultural literacy. But, whether or not they choose to say it is up to them. I appreciate the freedoms we have by living in America. I'm a good citizen, follow the laws, vote, pay my taxes and am profoundly grateful for the soldiers and sailors who put their lives on the line every single day to protect us (esp. my niece who is in the Navy). We'll be waving flags tomorow at the Veteran's Day Parade and I've already begun teaching the girls about what a veteran is and why we honor them. On the other hand... I am equally interested in being a good American citizen (making the US a better place) and being a good WORLD citizen. I view the USA as a very good country to live in, but not the ONLY good place to live. There are definitely worse places to live, but there are other countries in which I could be just as happy and just as free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 The biggest reason: I'm a Christian and I owe allegiance to God alone. I'll teach my girls the pledge eventually, because it's an issue of cultural literacy. But, whether or not they choose to say it is up to them. I appreciate the freedoms we have by living in America. I'm a good citizen, follow the laws, vote, pay my taxes and am profoundly grateful for the soldiers and sailors who put their lives on the line every single day to protect us (esp. my niece who is in the Navy). We'll be waving flags tomorow at the Veteran's Day Parade and I've already begun teaching the girls about what a veteran is and why we honor them. On the other hand... I am equally interested in being a good American citizen (making the US a better place) and being a good WORLD citizen. I view the USA as a very good country to live in, but not the ONLY good place to live. There are definitely worse places to live, but there are other countries in which I could be just as happy and just as free. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momto2Cs Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I won't say it until we do have "liberty and justice for all". Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kewb Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 We don't say it because I do not believe reciting the pledge determines whether or not you truly do have allegiance. Reciting by rote does not a Patriot make. Patriotism is shown through action. However, if my kids want to say it I have no problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cindie2dds Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm actually surprised that many Christians (and other religions) say the pledge. It would seem to me that pledging one's allegiance to a country would contradict one's ultimate loyalty to God. :iagree: Not just loyalty, but we (dh & I) feel God's word directs us not to swear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cindie2dds Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 I don't say the pledge because I don't think it's right to pledge my allegiance to a political entity. I prefer to have the freedom to dissent when I feel necessary and not pledge to support a country or government regardless. I don't let my children say the pledge because I think it's wrong to make children pledge something they can't really understand. Tara :iagree: Couldn't have said it better, Tara! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yslek Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 (edited) I don't say the pledge because I don't think it's right to pledge my allegiance to a political entity. I prefer to have the freedom to dissent when I feel necessary and not pledge to support a country or government regardless. I don't let my children say the pledge because I think it's wrong to make children pledge something they can't really understand. Tara :iagree: Those are my reasons as well. Also, as another pp stated, the "indivisible" part bothers me. No country/nation/government is indivisible. The whole thing feels uncomfortably propaganda-ish to me. That said, dh does say the pledge. He's in the military, and has thus pledged his allegiance to this country in a way most of us aren't called to do. Neither dh nor I have taught the pledge to our children. I stopped saying it when I was in High School, after several years of becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the whole business. I just found this wiki article on the Pledge...kind of interesting. I hadn't realized that the pledge was introduced over a hundred years after the founding of our country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance Edited November 10, 2009 by yslek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novagirl Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 We pledge our allegiance to God the Father, His Son and the Holy Spirit ALONE. I agree with just about everything you have said. By the way, I love the Bible verse you have in your signature!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) It's pointless. Plus that ridiculous 'under god" part which was added during the communist witch hunts of the 50's. I would never say 'under god'. Further, one can be patriotic without a pledge. OTOH, Americans have few things that are shared. It's nice at times to partake in a group activity. I wish America the Beautiful was our national anthem and not the SSB. I don't sing the SSB, but I would sing America the Beautiful, or better yet, This Land is Your Land. In fact, This Land is Your Land would be a great anthem! Who decides these things?! Edited November 11, 2009 by LibraryLover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 It's pointless. To me, saying it daily through 1-6th grade made it as arresting as the venetian blinds. Like the "values" posters plastered all over the Y. To see "respect" "forgiveness" etc in huge capital letters every time you do a lap at the pool promotes nothing, IMO. What a hotbed of theft and rude drivers. A pledge or an oath is a very serious matter to me, and chanting it as a custom cheapens it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommaduck Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I wish America the Beautiful was our national anthem and not the SSB. I don't sing the SSB, but I would sing America the Beautiful, or better yet, This Land is Your Land. In fact, This Land is Your Land would be a great anthem! Who decides these things?! I like This Land is Your Land :) Curious though, why are you against the SSB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 We don't say the pledge because I just don't fit it into the day. In high school I stood and respected, but didn't say, the pledge because of the "under God" part. That's the reason I don't emphasize it today. FWIW, it will be a memorization project for later because it's part of our social context and I do feel it's important, just like they will learn the 23rd Psalm even though we're athiest (for lack of a real catagory to fit us in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) I like This Land is Your Land :) Curious though, why are you against the SSB? Because it's about war. :( We can better represent what we stand for. No country is 'clean', but I think the US has been amazing in acknowledging it's checkered past. We can't change that, but we can acknowledge it and go forward. I love history, and I respect that we here in the US have carefully, publicly, and respectfully documented our triumphs and our failings. And I have been to lots of museums here and abroad. We may be imperfect and fallible, but we are honest about it. We let the marginalized document their stories and history. Edited November 11, 2009 by LibraryLover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smrtmama Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 That and I object to the use of "God" in the pledge. Yes. I believe in God, but am a secularist and don't think "under God" belongs in our pledge. I do say the pledge, btw, but omit "under God." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I went to elementary school with a girl who didn't say the pledge. I'm not sure if it was because she was 100% Native American or because she was Christian Scientist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 It's pointless. Plus that ridiculous 'under god" part which was added during the communist witch hunts of the 50's. I would never say 'under god'. Further, one can be patriotic without a pledge. OTOH, Americans have few things that are shared. It's nice at times to partake in a group activity. I wish America the Beautiful was our national anthem and not the SSB. I don't sing the SSB, but I would sing America the Beautiful, or better yet, This Land is Your Land. In fact, This Land is Your Land would be a great anthem! Who decides these things?! America The Beautiful contains a LOT of religious lyrics and it also contains bits about war O beautiful for spacious skies, For amber waves of grain, For purple mountain majesties Above the fruited plain! America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea! O beautiful for pilgrim feet Whose stern impassioned stress A thoroughfare of freedom beat Across the wilderness! America! America! God mend thine every flaw, Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law! O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife. Who more than self their country loved And mercy more than life! America! America! May God thy gold refine Till all success be nobleness And every gain divine! O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea! O beautiful for halcyon skies, For amber waves of grain, For purple mountain majesties Above the enameled plain! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till souls wax fair as earth and air And music-hearted sea! O beautiful for pilgrims feet, Whose stem impassioned stress A thoroughfare for freedom beat Across the wilderness! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till paths be wrought through wilds of thought By pilgrim foot and knee! O beautiful for glory-tale Of liberating strife When once and twice, for man's avail Men lavished precious life! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till selfish gain no longer stain The banner of the free! O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till nobler men keep once again Thy whiter jubilee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am not a patriot. :) I am not ashamed of that. I have no reason to be. I happen to have been born here. Whoop-dee-doo. I didn't choose that. I think there are many better places to live. I don't plan to live here for the rest of my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I don't say the pledge because I don't think it's right to pledge my allegiance to a political entity. I prefer to have the freedom to dissent when I feel necessary and not pledge to support a country or government regardless. I don't let my children say the pledge because I think it's wrong to make children pledge something they can't really understand. Tara :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) So I was right about This Land is Your Land. :) However, I naturally subsitute the word Love whenever I see or hear the word God. The god of danmation or shame means nothing to me. So the song works fine, and there are no bombs. America The Beautiful contains a LOT of religious lyrics and it also contains bits about war O beautiful for spacious skies, For amber waves of grain, For purple mountain majesties Above the fruited plain! America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea! O beautiful for pilgrim feet Whose stern impassioned stress A thoroughfare of freedom beat Across the wilderness! America! America! God mend thine every flaw, Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law! O beautiful for heroes proved In liberating strife. Who more than self their country loved And mercy more than life! America! America! May God thy gold refine Till all success be nobleness And every gain divine! O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea! O beautiful for halcyon skies, For amber waves of grain, For purple mountain majesties Above the enameled plain! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till souls wax fair as earth and air And music-hearted sea! O beautiful for pilgrims feet, Whose stem impassioned stress A thoroughfare for freedom beat Across the wilderness! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till paths be wrought through wilds of thought By pilgrim foot and knee! O beautiful for glory-tale Of liberating strife When once and twice, for man's avail Men lavished precious life! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till selfish gain no longer stain The banner of the free! O beautiful for patriot dream That sees beyond the years Thine alabaster cities gleam Undimmed by human tears! America! America! God shed his grace on thee Till nobler men keep once again Thy whiter jubilee! Edited November 11, 2009 by LibraryLover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance Thanks for posting this link. I found it quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am not a patriot. :)I am not ashamed of that. I have no reason to be. I happen to have been born here. Whoop-dee-doo. I didn't choose that. I think there are many better places to live. I don't plan to live here for the rest of my life. Although each place has it's own political pride. When you leave, you'll see. It's very growthful to experience something else. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 In fact, This Land is Your Land would be a great anthem! Who decides these things?! :iagree: I would have voted for This Land is Your Land but alas, no one asked me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 :iagree: I would have voted for This Land is Your Land but alas, no one asked me. lol Lets get on that! I love the song. I am also a huge fan of certain parts of This Little Light of Mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadoussac Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Many Canadians do not know the words to the National Anthem, and fewer would be able to sing God Save the Queen. As a nation, we are considerably less patriotic than Americans. That being said, I think I've found my new favourite Canadian song: r. Leslie-Jean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrganicAnn Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Arlo Guthrie sang some interest verses to This Land is Your Land. I never knew if they were original verses of his dad's or if he had written them himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I am not a patriot. :)I am not ashamed of that. I have no reason to be. I happen to have been born here. Whoop-dee-doo. I didn't choose that. I think there are many better places to live. I don't plan to live here for the rest of my life. Potentially the saddest comment I have ever seen on this board. There are millions all over the world who would trade places with you in a heartbeat. The wait in most nations for visas to emmigrate to the US can run into years. As an immigrant, who left one of those really nasty places to come to the Freedom of the US, I find your comments outrageous. If, as an American living in the freest nation on Earth, you have to state that you have no reason to be a patriot then you are willfully ignoring the benefits of the nation you live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 You gals that say you object to "under God"...is it because you dont belive in God? FWIW, I am a Christian, I do say the P of A, I am proud to be an American and glad to live here....but, I dont trust my government. THis could really be a long post, but I will leave it at that. I understand others "disenchantment" and wonder if most of the posters are mainly against it upon "religious" grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I wish America the Beautiful was our national anthem and not the SSB. I don't sing the SSB, but I would sing America the Beautiful, or better yet, This Land is Your Land. In fact, This Land is Your Land would be a great anthem! Who decides these things?! Curious though, why are you against the SSB? Because it's about war. :( We can better represent what we stand for. ....but this nation was created by war, preserved by war. Why would we not sing about the courage that made this great nation? It is a song about standing up against the odds for liberty. Further it is a song about a defensive not an offensive action. The Star Spangled Banner (The Defense of Fort McHenry) September 20, 1814 By Francis Scott Key Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming? Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight, O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep, Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes, What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep, As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses? Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam, In full glory reflected now shines on the stream: 'Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave. And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion A home and a country should leave us no more? Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave: And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave. Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." And the star-spangled banner forever shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! A national anthem fit for a great nation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Potentially the saddest comment I have ever seen on this board. There are millions all over the world who would trade places with you in a heartbeat. The wait in most nations for visas to emmigrate to the US can run into years. As an immigrant, who left one of those really nasty places to come to the Freedom of the US, I find your comments outrageous. If, as an American living in the freest nation on Earth, you have to state that you have no reason to be a patriot then you are willfully ignoring the benefits of the nation you live in. :iagree::iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 As an immigrant, who left one of those really nasty places to come to the Freedom of the US, I find your comments outrageous. If, as an American living in the freest nation on Earth, you have to state that you have no reason to be a patriot then you are willfully ignoring the benefits of the nation you live in. Pqr, I can tell this is a really emotional issue for you. It stabbed my heart to feel your pain about this. As to the OP and question...I do not say the PoA or sing the SSB because I give my allegience only to my God. In that same vein I remain politically neutral. I am however, fully aware of the freedoms I have to practice my religion in this country. I have brothers and sisters all over the world who worship in secret or from prison due to religious persecution. Being politically neutral is far different than being anti-American. I feel no disrespect toward the country in which I live and I hope I do not come off that way even though I definitely do not consider myself patriotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 . A national anthem fit for a great nation! A terrible range that makes it a farce for most people to sing it. I used to have an album of dozens of national anthem. Ours stuck out like sore thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 My second objection is the "indivisible" phrase. As I said in the other thread - Really? I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. On average, large city states last around 300 years. The good old U.S. of A. seems destined to split at the seams this century, right on time. As to why I don't say the pledge of allegiance -- I don't pledge allegiance to anybody except my family and friends. Countries, political parties, nations come and go. And because I'm an atheist, the words "under god" would make no sense for me or my children to utter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 And I respect that, but I don't want to glorify. Heck, I was at Mt Vernon this week, and it was wonderful. I am not anti-america. I don't want to sing about war, and there are better songs to reflect one's love of country. This Land is Your Land, fi. ;) ....but this nation was created by war, preserved by war. Why would we not sing about the courage that made this great nation? It is a song about standing up against the odds for liberty. Further it is a song about a defensive not an offensive action. The Star Spangled Banner (The Defense of Fort McHenry) September 20, 1814 By Francis Scott Key Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming? Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight, O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there. O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep, Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes, What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep, As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses? Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam, In full glory reflected now shines on the stream: 'Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave. And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion A home and a country should leave us no more? Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave: And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave. Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just, And this be our motto: "In God is our trust." And the star-spangled banner forever shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! A national anthem fit for a great nation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 A terrible range that makes it a farce for most people to sing it. I used to have an album of dozens of national anthem. Ours stuck out like sore thumb. Hardly anyone can sing it well. Tis true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntPol Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I don't say it because I am not a socialist, don't believe in socialism, or want to have anything to do with socialism. I find the whole idea of pledging to a country run by men to be quite silly. FWIW, I love the US, I love what rights we haven't lost to the liberals, served in the Marines during war time, do tons of community service, etc. I don't need to pledge to a piece of cloth to care for or have pride in my country. We don't say it in our homeschool but the kids have to endure it through Scouts. I find it ironic that any conservatives say it and are the ones that push it mostly because of the "Under God" red herring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqr Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I don't say it because I am not a socialist, don't believe in socialism, or want to have anything to do with socialism. I find the whole idea of pledging to a country run by men to be quite silly. FWIW, I love the US, I love what rights we haven't lost to the liberals, served in the Marines during war time, do tons of community service, etc. I don't need to pledge to a piece of cloth to care for or have pride in my country. We don't say it in our homeschool but the kids have to endure it through Scouts. I find it ironic that any conservatives say it and are the ones that push it mostly because of the "Under God" red herring. How about an oath to a piece of paper? If you do not accept that the flag and the nation embody an idea then I would assume you might feel the same way about a piece of paper. You must have had a hell of a time with the Marine oath of enlistment I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice So help me God. OR I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. For what it is worth, we probably have similar views on conservatism etc, but not on this. I do not see how you can state you love the country but then say pledging allegiance is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
********* Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Potentially the saddest comment I have ever seen on this board. There are millions all over the world who would trade places with you in a heartbeat. The wait in most nations for visas to emmigrate to the US can run into years. As an immigrant, who left one of those really nasty places to come to the Freedom of the US, I find your comments outrageous. If, as an American living in the freest nation on Earth, you have to state that you have no reason to be a patriot then you are willfully ignoring the benefits of the nation you live in. Pqr, please see my original post: Please don't fight. This thread is not about telling others what they should do, or why they are wrong and you are right. I'm just curious as to other's opinions. :001_smile: I'd respecfully ask that you keep your negative comments out of this thread, and start a thread of your own about 'why you should be patriotic', or 'why you should say the pledge', or whatever else it is you'd like to discuss. Just please don't do it in this thread. I was genuinely curious as to other's reasons for not saying the pledge. I obviously understand that others would feel strongly that we *should say the pledge. That's why I asked for no fighting in my original post. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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