Heather in Neverland Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 If you were presented with IRREFUTABLE PROOF that your religious/faith/beliefs were false, would you denounce your faith? For instance, if you found out that... - Jesus Christ is NOT the son of God - Mohammed was insane and had no part of the Quran - the Hindu Gods were really just fairytales etc. etc. Would you walk away from your faith? These questions came up in my apologetics course and I found them fascinating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 If you were presented with IRREFUTABLE PROOF that your religious/faith/beliefs were false, would you denounce your faith? For instance, if you found out that... - Jesus Christ is NOT the son of God - Mohammed was insane and had no part of the Quran - the Hindu Gods were really just fairytales etc. etc. Would you walk away from your faith? These questions came up in my apologetics course and I found them fascinating! IRREFUTABLE PROOF huh? That would be something. I can't honestly say I can imagine such a thing. My faith goes beyond what I can see or understand anyways, so I'm not sure I'd walk away. IRREFUTABLE PROOF...that would be really hard to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tap Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 No I would not denounce. My faith is more than just a belief in one God. It is a belief in a way of life, a personal goal of inner strength and support for others, a quest for a life following the Golden Rule. While my faith is centered around a God, without a God.....I would still want to follow these ideals and continue to strive to attain them. Faith is more than belief to me, it is also my personal philosophy of life. Whether Jesus was the son of God who walked the earth, or just a man with high morals, I still believe that he affected positive change in the world through his actions and ideals. If I do not worship God, believe in Jesus as his son, or hope for an afterlife, it doesn't change that I would still want to follow His aspirations for my own life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yes. But I do believe that my faith, Christianity is based on fact. The gospels are recorded in quadruplicate by eye-witnesses for a reason. I really like the Lee Strobel books because as a journalist and a skeptic, he really examined the evidence and in the end came to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petepie2 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hypothetically speaking, if I were presented with IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Jesus did not rise from the dead, then I couldn't be a Christian. My faith would be in vain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 - Jesus Christ is NOT the son of God Would that require a DNA test? And I would love to meet the lawyer making that request!:lol: Sorry, I couldn't help it.:D Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Nevermind Edited October 14, 2009 by Mandy in TN TMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 My religion is not easy. The part about it that is good for me is the truth and hope, and love for my God. If I found irrefutable evidence that it was false, I would not have a reason to stay. Yes. But I do believe that my faith, Christianity is based on fact. :iagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yes, if I was presented with irrefutable proof, I would have to change my views. I am a logical person and a great deal of the reason that I believe what I do is because my heart and my head have to agree. I can not force myself to believe that which my mind knows not to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yes I certainly would and then I'd have no reason to live. What is the point without God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 If you were presented with IRREFUTABLE PROOF that your religious/faith/beliefs were false, would you denounce your faith? For instance, if you found out that... - Jesus Christ is NOT the son of God - Mohammed was insane and had no part of the Quran - the Hindu Gods were really just fairytales etc. etc. Would you walk away from your faith? These questions came up in my apologetics course and I found them fascinating! To me there is a big difference in my faith and the organized religion through which I practice that faith. I pay close attention to the organized religion part...I would not stay part of a religion that I felt was wrong or deliberately misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaik76 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 If the proof were irrefutable it would absolutely change my beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I may would also start paying more attention to conspiracy theories.:DMandy Bwah ha ha ha!!!:lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshine Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Fascinating question. I really cannot answer it with conviction. I would like to believe that I would continue to live as I do now but knowing what a horrible sinner I was before God called me out of death and darkness, I cannot say if I would. The only proof that I could imagine would be something that the enemy (you know who I am talking about, the little horned devil:tongue_smilie:) had so convincingly presented and that I would be so utterly deceived that I would be put into the position of an unbeliever. So I think even if presented with irrefutable proof, I would suspect a trick, and hunker down deeper into my faith that there is but One True God, One Savior, One Truth, One Religion. I am all about conspiracy theories:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I don't think it's healthy to accept that premise and speculate on it. I would cross that bridge when I came to it. I am not even slightly worried that it will arise. There are so many questions like that that are really not helpful or even relevant. I don't think it's right to worry about them. I'm not sure it's even good to think about them. One is 'If God is omnipotent, can He make a rock He can't lift?' I think that the only way to think about questions like that is to be in awe of how much cooler and multi-dimensional God is than us, and that He is beyond our complete description. For the original question, I don't feel that God is subject to proof, totally. I feel that we now see through a glass darkly but then shall see in full. I have to accept that because I'm just a measley human. I think that to pose the question implies that God is subject to proof, which tends to deny His being above all and through all and in all. It's like that Escher drawing of the continuous stairway--it's like an optical illusion to pose that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 IRREFUTABLE PROOF huh? That would be something. I can't honestly say I can imagine such a thing. My faith goes beyond what I can see or understand anyways, so I'm not sure I'd walk away. IRREFUTABLE PROOF...that would be really hard to come by. Right, that's why this is a hypothetical question...what if? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Isn't one definition of faith 'something one believes without evidence, or even in spite of evidence to the contrary' (eg somebody is convicted of a crime on the evidence presented in court, but his wife has faith in his innocence)? If there were irrefutable proof for or against any particular religious belief, then all rational people would believe in it, or not, according to that evidence; no faith required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sputterduck Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Isn't one definition of faith 'something one believes without evidence, or even in spite of evidence to the contrary' (eg somebody is convicted of a crime on the evidence presented in court, but his wife has faith in his innocence)? If there were irrefutable proof for or against any particular religious belief, then all rational people would believe in it, or not, according to that evidence; no faith required. It isn't my definition. I have faith in God because He has been true to His promises for me. He has proven himself faithful and good and loving and so I put my faith in Him and follow Him. If I didn't know Him and have a personal relationship with Him, I would put my heart and my faith elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 I don't think it's healthy to accept that premise and speculate on it. I would cross that bridge when I came to it. I am not even slightly worried that it will arise. There are so many questions like that that are really not helpful or even relevant. I don't think it's right to worry about them. I'm not sure it's even good to think about them. Well, my professor feels differently. :D The question came out of a discussion about TRUTH. Since we live in a post-modern, "truth is relative" sort of world it is a pretty relevant question. If there is no such thing as Truth, or if what is true for me is not necessarily true for you then are we putting our faith in a lie? (whatever faith that is?) So the question as it relates to me personally is "IF, hypothetically speaking, you had irrefutable proof that Jesus is not who He says He is, He is not the son of God, he was not resurrected, etc. would you still be a Christian?" My answer is no. Why would I follow a lie? The question is designed to get at the heart of WHY you believe not just WHAT you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianmum Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Wow, yeah; I see what you mean: what a challenging question! I've often wondered that exact thing in relation to a group of religious people here. Why would they keep adhering to a religion that seems so full of holes? It's interesting to turn the question back at myself! Thanks! It also makes me so happy to know that with God, the "bottom isn't going to drop out" and He can take a little questioning! blessings, Nancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) I wanted to think about this some more without being flippant. I would think that if you are a scriptural literalist who derives faith from religious doctrines based off of scripture then if any part of your scripture was found to be inaccurate you would need to reevaluate your faith. If, however, you view your faith’s religious texts as forms of the creation myth and hero story that nurture your soul and speak to what you believe guides you through life, then you would instead need to evaluate how that rewrite impacts your take on those particular myths. My truth isn’t necessarily as obvious as a set of stories printed on paper. Mandy Edited October 14, 2009 by Mandy in TN font Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMW Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well... I don't know about denouncing... I think I would still find that my way of life, based on good principles, is worth living! Treat others how you would want to be treated.... kind of like: if you are right and there is no God and I am wrong in my faith, what did I lose... I lived a life loving others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld." Hebrews 11:1. One of my favs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yes, if I was presented with irrefutable proof, I would have to change my views. I am a logical person and a great deal of the reason that I believe what I do is because my heart and my head have to agree. I can not force myself to believe that which my mind knows not to be true. :iagree: But I have to say that even if someone had IRREFUTABLE PROOF of the existence of their god, while that might mean I would then believe in the existence of said god, it does not necessarily mean that I would worship said god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LibraryLover Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 We don't believe in divinity, and we do have values and rituals that reflect our core beliefs about life. I can't see where or why we would voluntarily stop celebrating life, or stop believing in the inherent worth and gift of life. If someone said "There is no value to life, so stop celebrating it', I don't think we could. We live our life in a way that is meaningful. I would imagine religious people would still find rhyme & reason in metaphorical scripture. I certainly do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianmum Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 :iagree: But I have to say that even if someone had IRREFUTABLE PROOF of the existence of their god, while that might mean I would then believe in the existence of said god, it does not necessarily mean that I would worship said god. very interesting point. As a Christian, I'm so steeped in worshiping the God I believe in (because it's one of those "If you knew Him, how could you NOT worship Him" things), that to think of believing in a god, but not worshiping it, caught me up!:tongue_smilie: Nancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 We don't believe in divinity, and we do have values and rituals that reflect our core beliefs about life. I can't see where or why we would voluntarily stop celebrating life, or stop believing in the inherent worth and gift of life. If someone said "There is no value to life, so stop celebrating it', I don't think we could. We live our life in a way that is meaningful. I would imagine religious people would still find rhyme & reason in metaphorical scripture. I certainly do. I'm not saying I would be suicidal if I found out Jesus was a hoax but I certainly would stop being a Christian (follower of Christ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yes I certainly would and then I'd have no reason to live. What is the point without God? I'm sorry that life seems so worthless to you without god. I try to find joy in the little things: the curve of Hobbes' shoulder as he sits writing next to me; the woodpecker on the bird feeder this morning; Calvin's sparkling eyes as he makes me laugh; the cup of tea that husband brought me last night as I marked papers. Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) I'm a "build your own religion" kind of girl but if I was faced with absolute proof that my beliefs were hogwash, I'd do one of two things. I'd either discard them if they were no use, or downgrade them to myth status if they were. Heck, I have a very detailed theory of reincarnation that I made up to answer certain questions. I don't believe a word of it, but it is a nice theory and it makes me feel better. Something doesn't have to be true to be useful, and good advice is good advice even if it comes from a silly source. Yes I certainly would and then I'd have no reason to live. What is the point without God? Was that a rhetorical question? The reason to live is that you are part of a complex web of interrelations and you affect every cord you touch. My answer is no. Why would I follow a lie? What a strong word "lie" is :) Why not follow a story, if it is a good and inspiring story? Rosie Edited October 14, 2009 by Rosie_0801 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricia Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 If that's the case, then ALL would be vain and we might as well eat, drink, and be merry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I once had a nun tell me a story about religion and truth. Once when she was camping one of her sister nuns told them that she had never been able to find the big dipper. She just could not find in the sky whatever it was that other people saw. This woman took their big flashlight and helped the other one find the big dipper. Her sister was so excited about finding the big dipper, but the other nun was mesmerized by the beam of light. The nun said that is how one must view religion. Religion is not truth. Religion is a means for finding truth. The truth that I am a self aware entity who ponders my surroundings doesn’t change regardless of what paradigm I choose to interact with those surroundings. Religious myths provide a means to organize and ponder big questions about our lives and our surroundings. They give us a framework to think through values. Religion does not equal Faith does not equal Truth. Paradigm gives Beliefs. Truth is constant. HTH- Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 :iagree: But I have to say that even if someone had IRREFUTABLE PROOF of the existence of their god, while that might mean I would then believe in the existence of said god, it does not necessarily mean that I would worship said god. :iagree: I absolutely agree with you here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 God's personality is grieviously misrepresented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Angel_79 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 For the original question, I don't feel that God is subject to proof, totally. I feel that we now see through a glass darkly but then shall see in full. I have to accept that because I'm just a measley human. I think that to pose the question implies that God is subject to proof, which tends to deny His being above all and through all and in all. It's like that Escher drawing of the continuous stairway--it's like an optical illusion to pose that question. :iagree: -- ABSOLUTELY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 One interesting thing about this thread is that almost everybody here is, by definition, wrong about their religion. After all, we believe mutually contradictory things, so most of us must be wrong. Maybe all of us are wrong. And yet we each look at our own faith and it's the one that looks correct, logical, true, while the others are some degree of falseness depending on how far they deviate from our own beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Angel_79 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 One interesting thing about this thread is that almost everybody here is, by definition, wrong about their religion. After all, we believe mutually contradictory things, so most of us must be wrong. Maybe all of us are wrong. And yet we each look at our own faith and it's the one that looks correct, logical, true, while the others are some degree of falseness depending on how far they deviate from our own beliefs. My faith doesn't have to depend on the logic of man, therefore I don't measure it (or other's faith, unless they are defending it in that manner) in that way. Religion does not equal faith/belief for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingM Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 My faith doesn't have to depend on the logic of man, therefore I don't measure it (or other's faith, unless they are defending it in that manner) in that way.Religion does not equal faith/belief for me. I don't understand that language, since it's outside the scope of my own experience. Are you saying that your religion is true but someone else's--say a Hindu's--might also be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't understand that language, since it's outside the scope of my own experience. Are you saying that your religion is true but someone else's--say a Hindu's--might also be true? bingo! and this is why I can find faith in Christian myths and my dh can find faith in Muslim myths and we can be fine that the other has a paradigm that works for them. Again- The truth that I am a self aware entity who ponders my surroundings doesn’t change regardless of what paradigm I choose to interact with those surroundings. Religious myths provide a means to organize and ponder big questions about our lives and our surroundings. They give us a framework to think through values. Religion does not equal Faith does not equal Truth. Paradigm gives Beliefs. Truth is constant. HTH- Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy in TN Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) In other words, a creation story is a creation story is a creation story They don't alter the truth that the world is here. Mandy ETA- Even scientific cosmological explanations for the beginning of time are in a sense a creation myths. And all the stories are in a sense the same story. They have the same outcome: the same truth. Edited October 15, 2009 by Mandy in TN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Angel_79 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't understand that language, since it's outside the scope of my own experience. Are you saying that your religion is true but someone else's--say a Hindu's--might also be true? If they aren't defending their faith with logistics, then there is no need to argue with them. Do I believe that their religion is truth? No. But I guess what I am trying to summarize (probably very poorly) is that I can't defend my faith in a God who is beyond the realm of complete human understanding with mere human logic. That is where faith comes in and why IT (my faith) defines my relationship with God. I'm sure this is the same way other religions may also define their position. This position might lead to a question of how does one spread their belief (or in Christian terms spread the gospel). I'll leave that to another thread (which I won't start...I'm too tired). I feel like the threads that tend to go round and round on subjects related to this are those that put people of faith (of any type) on the defensive to defend it in a humanistic logical manner and it just isn't possible if those are the "shades you wear", so to speak. And I'm definitely not trying to box everyone who claims to have faith in whatever/whomever. I'm talking about those who absolutely will say "I don't have to know the ins and outs of the whole deal to believe." Am I making sense? (I should go to bed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 "I don't have to know the ins and outs of the whole deal to believe." You are correct. You do NOT have to know the answer to every single detail in order to believe. We can't know every single detail. But do YOU believe that WHAT you believe is REALLY REAL? Do you believe it is Truth? 1. If a Christian were to answer that question with: Yes, I believe that the basic principles of Christianity are Truth, then they would have to answer KingM's question about whether or not Christianity and Hinudism can both be Truth with NO. You can't have two opposing ideas BOTH be Truth. If one is truth then the other is, by virtue of the meaning of truth, not truth. 2. this is the same line of thinking that lead to the hypothetical question in the first place. No, we cannot PROVE that Christianity is Truth. But what if we could? Would those who are not Christians convert? What if we could PROVE that Christianity is a hoax? Would you walk away? The idea behind the topic was to get at the heart of what you REALLY believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earth Angel_79 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 You are correct. You do NOT have to know the answer to every single detail in order to believe. We can't know every single detail. But do YOU believe that WHAT you believe is REALLY REAL? Do you believe it is Truth? 1. If a Christian were to answer that question with: Yes, I believe that the basic principles of Christianity are Truth, then they would have to answer KingM's question about whether or not Christianity and Hinudism can both be Truth with NO. You can't have two opposing ideas BOTH be Truth. If one is truth then the other is, by virtue of the meaning of truth, not truth. Actually, I did answer that...no, I don't believe that Hinduism or any other religion is Truth. I believe in One True God who is defined by the tenets of Christianity. I'm sure that was buried under all my other wording. 2. this is the same line of thinking that lead to the hypothetical question in the first place. No, we cannot PROVE that Christianity is Truth. But what if we could? Would those who are not Christians convert? What if we could PROVE that Christianity is a hoax? Would you walk away? I understand the question...I think I agreed with a previous poster. I'm skirting the question, because I don't think God/Christianity can be PROVED by human logic or understanding. I don't think I said what the pp said as eloquently. If I had to straight up answer your question, it would be NO. I wouldn't walk away, because I recognize the smallness of my understanding of an awesome God and Creator. The idea behind the topic was to get at the heart of what you REALLY believe. I know that I am probably a poor defender of my faith, but I love threads like these because they bring about so many great points and possible arguments one could face. Thanks Heather. :001_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysparkler Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I think I would be too freaked out in trying to find out who it was that I have been talking with all of these years to even decide what to do next :lol:. How can you prove someone you have met is non-existant? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Atl Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Yes I certainly would and then I'd have no reason to live. What is the point without God? Wow, I find this statement incredible sad. What about the joy your family brings you, any pets you may have, your friends, the world around you both natural and man-made...? I will never understand this mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greta Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I'm sorry that life seems so worthless to you without god. I try to find joy in the little things: the curve of Hobbes' shoulder as he sits writing next to me; the woodpecker on the bird feeder this morning; Calvin's sparkling eyes as he makes me laugh; the cup of tea that husband brought me last night as I marked papers. Wow, I find this statement incredible sad. What about the joy your family brings you, any pets you may have, your friends, the world around you both natural and man-made...? I will never understand this mindset. I don't mean to speak for Sputterduck, this is just my own thoughts. But I think perhaps there is such a fundamental difference in perspective here that there is some miscommunication going on. In our culture, we often see faith or God as something separate and apart from other aspects of our life and the world at large. Kind of like the non-overlapping magisteria view promoted by Stephen Jay Gould. Even many people of faith have this view of it. (I used to.) But some do not. For some, the joy of their family, the sparkle in their child's eyes, the beauty of the natural world are all tangible manifestations of God's love. They cannot be separated from God. The entire world, our entire lives, are infused and permeated with God, faith, divine love. So the thought of a world without God is not the world as we know it, it's just an empty shell. I'm not sure if I made much sense. This is my first attempt at putting these thoughts into words, and it isn't easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda1951 Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 it is a way of life. it works I would not change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I don't mean to speak for Sputterduck, this is just my own thoughts. But I think perhaps there is such a fundamental difference in perspective here that there is some miscommunication going on. In our culture, we often see faith or God as something separate and apart from other aspects of our life and the world at large. Kind of like the non-overlapping magisteria view promoted by Stephen Jay Gould. Even many people of faith have this view of it. (I used to.) But some do not. For some, the joy of their family, the sparkle in their child's eyes, the beauty of the natural world are all tangible manifestations of God's love. They cannot be separated from God. The entire world, our entire lives, are infused and permeated with God, faith, divine love. So the thought of a world without God is not the world as we know it, it's just an empty shell. I'm not sure if I made much sense. This is my first attempt at putting these thoughts into words, and it isn't easy. I thought I might add to this my thoughts. Emphasizing that these are my beliefs, so far, and do not represent Christian beliefs. God is in the world, in every particle of his creation, and the world, all his creation, is in him. Creation is God's love; one and the same. For someone to say they have proof that God doesn't exist, that would say to me they have proof the world/life doesn't exist, that I don't exist, that my children don't exist. So if someone were to claim they had proof that God doesn't exist, it wouldn't change anything for me as long as I live, breathe air, drink water, love, because those things are God's love. And it certainly wouldn't change the way I behave or act. Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricket Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hypothetically speaking, if I were presented with IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Jesus did not rise from the dead, then I couldn't be a Christian. My faith would be in vain.... :iagree: I would start searching for some other answer to how we are reconciled to God because then it wouldn't be through Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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