"I do what I want, too bad for you" trend

[Nakia]

Hey, Mrs. Mungo! A few pages back you shared some links to some beautiful paintings, and I wanted to say thank you. I love them!

[Lovedtodeath]

Because males are hard-wired to be aroused by women's bodies.

 

I agree that males should be trained from infancy to not objectify women, but really, we want our men to desire us and our bodies, then we vilify them for being aroused by female bodies. It's really just not fair to them.

 

"For Women Only" is a great book by Shaunti Feldham about how men think and it addresses this "oogling" issue very well, imo. I learned a lot from it. Her information is garnered from surveys she gave men.

 

And, I'm absolutely pro-breastfeeding, but I'm also absolutely pro-modesty, respect and discretion, as well.

 

As for the other issues in the OP, all I can come up with is this, "every man did what was right in his own eyes." Judges 17:6b

Sorry, I don't buy into the hard-wired idea. Men in nudist colonies or countries/areas where going topless is common, are not turned on by the site of breasts or nipples any more than they are turned on by the rest of the female body, covered or not. Many doctors are not turned on by the sight of breasts. Many fathers who are used to seeing their children breastfeeding are no longer uncomfortable or turned on at the sight. It is societal conditioning that makes breasts attractive. There was a time and place where ankles would get a man hot and bothered. Edited September 11, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[Lovedtodeath]

:iagree:

 

Thank you, thank you, for saying this.

 

What is truly important? One of the reasons more people even in our own country don't nurse, thereby increasing their baby's health risks and lowering the general health of our society, is fear of nursing in public and dealing with the ridiculous, ongoing societal taboo of breastfeeding. People need to get over their squeamishness. When I'm in public and have a nursing shirt, a sling, and my hand right on the top of my shirt ready to cover up anything "Just in case" and still have women hovering around me trying to usher me into a room, or turning their chairs around so they can't see me, it makes me feel...well, like they think I"m doing something shameful or wrong. And I have nursed several children already and am more immune to these things than I was as a new mom. It's horrible, really.

 

The OP mentioned consideration for others, and then mentioned it is different if someone is trying to "better society", or something like that. Well, breastfeeding in public IS bettering society. It doesn't mean we need to flash anyone, but the more women continue living their lives and breastfeeding whereever they happen to be, the more breastfeeding will seem normal and maybe we can finally have a generation of babies who are mostly fed the way nature intended.

:iagree:Worded so well!

 

The "shock" of being confronted with a human breast (and we aren't hearing many actual stories of extreme exposure in this discussion) seems very contrived to me. Of all the things to worry about! How many people here are sponsoring or have sponsored an impoverished child? How can we honestly spend this much time focused on whether a nursing mother incites sexual desire, when it's clearly so important to encourage mothers to nurse? If I was pregnant and had not yet decided whether to nurse, discussions like this would scare me to death.

 

As an issue of priorities, I'd say "Eek! A booby" is a fail.

:iagree:

[DesertDweller]

Sorry, I don't buy into the hard-wired idea. Men in nudist colonies or countries/areas where going topless is common, are not turned on by the site of breasts or nipples any more than they are turned on by the rest of the female body, covered or not. Many doctors are not turned on by the sight of breasts. Many fathers who are used to seeing their children breastfeeding are no longer uncomfortable or turned on at the sight. It is societal conditioning that makes breasts attractive. There was a time and place where ankles would get a man hot and bothered.

 

:iagree:

[jubulibee]

Because males are hard-wired to be aroused by women's bodies.

 

I don't believe God hard-wired men to be like this. I believe it happened as a result of the sinful world we are living in. God only gave Adam and Eve clothes after they sinned. [it's a funny image--Adam chasing Eve around the Garden trying to jump her bones all the time because she was naked. Actually, that sounds kind of fun!]

 

It's all about social norms.

 

We cannot say a woman is to blame for being raped when she wears a sexy outfit (although I don't think it is appropriate to wear revealing clothes just to flaunt our bodies); yet society has clearly made it normal and desirable to be sexy and to flaunt it.

 

What a sick world we live in! Oh, I can't wait to go home!

[Mrs Mungo]

C) Mostly ≠ always. I was addressing the issue of those out there in the world who don't bf discreetly.

 

To me, the issue with breastfeeding in public is where is the greater harm-the tiny minority of women who are indiscreet or the large percentage of women who never see women nurse are impacted and choose not to nurse. I think the latter is the greater harm.

 

interdependence leads to neighborliness.

 

I agree.

 

I've learned a lot too....most importantly.....never, ever start a thread having anything remotely to do with breastfeeding. ;)

 

Or peanut butter slices. Don't forget them.

 

This cracked me up too....thanks, Mrs. Mungo. Whenever I'm in an impatient driver situation I used to think, "Maybe they're having a baby and trying to get to the hospital." Now I will chuckle when I think of....explosive diarrhea.

 

Well, then, mission accomplished. :D

 

 

Hey, Mrs. Mungo! A few pages back you shared some links to some beautiful paintings, and I wanted to say thank you. I love them!

 

You are welcome!

 

Group hug? Maybe? :grouphug:

[secular_mom]

I believe that the majority of people either don't think things through, and therefore are happy to change when someone else's feelings are pointed out, or they do think things through and have made a stance. I've only known one person ever who really could say, well, bully for you, huzzah for me, and mean it.

 

I think we're busy. We're distracted. We're tuned in to our machines. When we're reminded to look up at the PEOPLE, we're still compassionate.

 

Sometimes though, like with breastfeeding or slutty covers of magazines at kids' eye level or whatever, I think there's something else at play. Firstly, it's not about what we want, it's us doing what we believe in. Secondly, we're not just asking you to tolerate us; we're offering to live and work and play and educate and perform our civic duties side-by-side with people who are doing what we believe to be unethical, in exchange for being granted the same consideration. It's not "I do what I want, too bad for you," it's "I do what I believe is ethical, and I will tolerate you doing that too." This is pretty important to allow I think, even when it feels like too-bad-for-you.

 

 

Rose, you worded this so well that my only reply to this thread is :iagree:.

[Lovedtodeath]

To me, the issue with breastfeeding in public is where is the greater harm-the tiny minority of women who are indiscreet or the large percentage of women who never see women nurse are impacted and choose not to nurse. I think the latter is the greater harm.

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

 

Or peanut butter slices. Don't forget them.

 

 

 

Well, then, mission accomplished. :D

 

 

 

 

You are welcome!

 

Group hug? Maybe? :grouphug:

:grouphug: I'm in. Do I get peanut butter slices now? :drool5:

 

wow! some people are so lazy that they buy peanut butter slices! :boxing_smiley: Well... How dare you! I have arthritis and my SPD kids would starve without peanut butter slices! :tongue_smilie:

[cin]

On the other hand, my brother smokes. A couple of years ago he wanted to visit with me so he picked me up to go to Starbucks. He sat at the table across from me and smoked 2 cigarettes. I was having the worst flare up I've ever had, and he knew that. They almost put me in the hospital a few days before, yet he did it with the attitude of "get over it". His son is allergic to peanuts, I would never knowingly give him some and make him sick, but he doesn't return the same respect.

 

 

 

Seriously, this ticked me off so bad. My blood pressure rose 30 pts, I'd bet. I'd be so tempted to have a jar of peanut butter sitting out the next time the kid comes over (if Dad is there, of course) and offer up pb&j for lunch. When dad throws a hissy about his son being allergic and could get sick, etc. etc. Say, oh so innocently, You mean like CIGARETTES trigger my ASTHMA. And walk away. Seriously, people CAN die from asthma attacks. But you already know that. ARGHHHHH

:rant::cursing:

[Mrs Mungo]

:grouphug: I'm in. Do I get peanut butter slices now? :drool5:

 

Ummm, yes?

 

wow! some people are so lazy that they buy peanut butter slices! :boxing_smiley: Well... How dare you! I have arthritis and my SPD kids would starve without peanut butter slices! :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol:

[amy g.]

Boy, I wish I could still give out positive rep for some of the great comments on this thread!

[Blessedfamily]

Oh c'mon now, I've never seen people that made we wish I'd never left home at King's Dominion :lol:

 

You can get YEARS worth of icky people experience just parking the car there!

 

I remember being little, back when it was still Hannah Barbara and how clean and nice everything was. Sigh... back in the day when the area around the eiffel tower didn't stink of urine :(

 

Off on tangent.......

 

Can you believe this was all on my first trip there? Sorry, but I grew up going to Busch Gardens and hearing people rave about KD. I kept saying, THIS is what y'all are so crazy about???? Umm.... the metal detectors are a nice welcome.

 

I don't know who'd want to breastfeed there anyway; it's like breastfeeding in a public restroom.

 

Back to the thread....

[Mrs Mungo]

I don't know who'd want to breastfeed there anyway; it's like breastfeeding in a public restroom.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[mirth]

I'd be so tempted to have a jar of peanut butter sitting out the next time the kid comes over (if Dad is there, of course) and offer up pb&j for lunch. When dad throws a hissy about his son being allergic and could get sick, etc. etc.

 

I would never do this. Why take out problems with the father on his son? The son, btw, would get scared and could view this aunt badly for a long time.

[lionfamily1999]

Off on tangent.......

 

Can you believe this was all on my first trip there? Sorry, but I grew up going to Busch Gardens and hearing people rave about KD. I kept saying, THIS is what y'all are so crazy about???? Umm.... the metal detectors are a nice welcome.

 

I don't know who'd want to breastfeed there anyway; it's like breastfeeding in a public restroom.

 

Back to the thread....

One more foray (this isn't really worth a KD thread). It USED to be incredibly nice, clean, fun and (really) great for the entire family. It's trashy now, the new owners don't care like they did in the Hannah Barbara days, it's really sad.

 

And yes, it's like one huge rest room (I shudder at the wave pool, blech!).

[Mrs Mungo]

I would never do this. Why take out problems with the father on his son? The son, btw, would get scared and could view this aunt badly for a long time.

 

Being *tempted* to do something and doing it are very different things. I'm *tempted* to do all sorts of things (ramming cars with my truck like Ben Hur, stabbing people with my pen, have a Mike's at 6 am) that I would never *do*.

[newlifemom]

Being *tempted* to do something and doing it are very different things. I'm *tempted* to do all sorts of things (ramming cars with my truck like Ben Hur, stabbing people with my pen, have a Mike's at 6 am) that I would never *do*.

 

Are you sure about that last one?

 

 

 

 

:lol:

[cin]

I would never do this. Why take out problems with the father on his son? The son, btw, would get scared and could view this aunt badly for a long time.

 

Seriously, I would never do it, but it would be a great scenario that MIGHT teach the father to think outside the box.

 

No, the peanut butter allergy spectrum is way to broad. I'd have to have a TON more information. IF the allergy was on the lesser side, and NOT life threatening, I *might* consider it. But actually, I'd probably just verbalize this scenario to the father, in the HOPES that it might open his eyes to OTHER people's health conditions/allergies.

[cin]

I've never jumped into a breastfeeding argument, and I really don't care who breastfeeds, as long as I don't have a breast swinging in my face. BUT, the arguments I've heard from proponents would also support men urinating in public. It's a natural thing, it's not a sexual thing, and they can do it discreetly. And did it in abundance in Asia! I'm not promoting or against, just thought it sounded like it would fit the same criteria. :leaving:

[Mrs Mungo]

I've never jumped into a breastfeeding argument, and I really don't care who breastfeeds, as long as I don't have a breast swinging in my face. BUT, the arguments I've heard from proponents would also support men urinating in public. It's a natural thing, it's not a sexual thing, and they can do it discreetly. And did it in abundance in Asia! I'm not promoting or against, just thought it sounded like it would fit the same criteria. :leaving:

 

What societal benefit is there to men urinating in public? Breastfeeding isn't unsanitary and it's feeding a baby. I can't see the correlation, at all. And I lived in Germany for 5 years, it's really common there, especially for kids.

[lionfamily1999]

Yeah, I've never heard of breast milk stagnating on a sidewalk. And it doesn't smell nearly as bad. It has much less actual impact on other people than urinating does. IOW, unless you really can't resist gaping or have some sort of mental/physical illness/infirmity that makes breasts set you off, it doesn't effect you the way stepping in or around a steaming stream would.

[Blessedfamily]

This isn't a post for or against the covering issue but....

 

I followed an online arument about bf'ing, where one poster said pretty much the same thing. They were discussing a woman who was bf'ing right next to a picnicing family who got aggravated.

 

One poster who was against it asked what if he wanted to wee wee(my word, certainly not his) in public right next to where some people were sitting on a bench. After all, it's as natural as bf'ing. Someone answered that he is an adult and has self-control, control over his bodily functions, and an awareness of appropriate behavior(not to mention sanitary issues). A baby does not. When they're hungry, they know not anything else.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

And to the op, it is a pretty far stretch to compare someone cussing around a child and a mother nursing her infant. I mean, seriously??

 

One more time, and then I'm off to bed, and then you guys can talk about me while I'm away. ;)

 

I'M FOR BREASTFEEDING! I nursed for 4 years...did LaLeche...nursed in all sorts of places...gave breastfeeding classes with my real baby...the whole shebang. Not that you need my resume...but just to let you know that I've had some experience with it.

 

I'm not for blantant breast showing while breastfeeding. This might be a small percentage of women who do this, but it gives all nursing mothers a bad name, and it isn't necessary. If we are considerate of others everyone can be happy. A mother can nurse discreetly (with or without a blanket) and baby's tummy gets filled, and others aren't made uncomfortable. I was once on a flight where I had to nurse, so I pulled out the blanket and everything because I had a man right next to me--no breast at all was shown. The guy switched seats! (Although the Pollyanna in me has also thought that maybe he was trying to be considerate of me so he left to give me some privacy.) I can only imagine if I had pulled out the whole breast and popped it in baby's mouth...seat-switcher probably would have jumped off the plane.

 

The reason breastfeeding and people cursing in front of children are related is that those in-your-face bfeeders don't seem to care about how anyone around them might feel about what they are doing, and they seem to do it just because they can. Just like someone cursing in front of your kids does it because he doesn't care whether or not your 4 year old knows the F-word...he talks like that just because he can. There's been many other examples on here of people doing whatever they want without consideration of others that probably would have been less explosive than breastfeeding, and I'm sorry I didn't choose to use those instead.

 

My point (still) is, just because we can do something doesn't mean we should. We are lucky that we CAN do a lot of things in this country that aren't possible or even safe in many parts of the world. But I think a little consideration of others whenever possible (even on online forums) would be a lot better for everyone and help all of us get along a little better.

[Blessedfamily]

Mrs. F, :grouphug:

 

I get the distinction. You (and others who have posted here) support bf'ing, but wish people would do it discreetly (with or without a cover).

 

If I recall correctly, in the last big bf'ing thread/poll there was only about 3 people who were actually against bf'ing in public.

[Mrs Mungo]

What societal benefit is there to men urinating in public? Breastfeeding isn't unsanitary and it's feeding a baby. I can't see the correlation, at all. And I lived in Germany for 5 years, it's really common there, especially for kids.

 

Just fill in urinating in public with cursing. There is no correlation. *I* believe the greater evil weighs on the side of giving moms a hard time which prevents some women from choosing breastfeeding. You can believe differently and we can still be friends. I have friends with all sorts of beliefs that conflict with my own.

[Slartibartfast]

I do feel I am considerate. I am considerate of my son who has a heart defect and due to a genetic condition is more likely to have an autoimmune disease. It is extra important that my son is nursed. I fought to nurse him, it took months to get him to gain well. His cardiologist was so relieved to know I was nursing because it would be so much better for his condition.

 

Why don't those others be considerate of my little son and his heart that does so much better on breastmilk? How very sad someone would be so squeamish and feel their right to be offended would be more important than my son and his heart and his immune system. :(

 

I gave this thread a bad rating.

 

I am saddened to see moms point fingers at one another and say "BAD!" without knowing any of the details. Maybe the "immodest" nursers aren't the ones being inconsiderate. Maybe they are doing what they can, like we all do.

 

Thank God no one said a word while I nursed my child in public while also trying to use a SNS. I would probably recommend they spend more time talking to Jesus and less time worrying about how someone is trying to care for their infant.

 

And I am NOT immodest, but I am certainly NOT going to allow someone to define what "modest" means in regard to MY breastfeeding MY child. If there starts being an issue about modesty I WILL let it all out and nurse as immodestly as possible if it means saving another mom from being harassed.

 

And if my husband tried to say he was uncomfortable about a woman nursing I would tell him to "suck it up princess"

Edited September 11, 2009 by Sis

[Slartibartfast]

I agree with this as well. When discussing road rage a woman on another board suggested imagining people who cut you off while driving have explosive diarrhea. I *always* imagine this now, it makes me take a deep breath and let it go and even chuckle to myself.

 

 

 

In the future if someone says something about my nursing I will just say, "I am just going to assume you have explosive diarrhea and cannot help it."

[Mrs Mungo]

In the future if someone says something about my nursing I will just say, "I am just going to assume you have explosive diarrhea and cannot help it."

 

Well, in that case I think I would assume they were severely constipated but that's just me.

[Slartibartfast]

Well, in that case I think I would assume they were severely constipated but that's just me.

 

Maybe both.

 

That would be awkward.

[unsinkable]

Please give the other driver a break. Once I was rushing to the hosp with a sick kid only to have the man in front of me SLOW DOWN 10 mph below the speed limit and then give me the finger. And he drove that way for MILES. No, I couldn't pass, either.

 

Then, it actually happened AGAIN. I was blinking my lights--everything, I even tried yelling that I had to get to the hosp. Nope. They decided I was some jerk and made that ride hell for us. My son had burned his arms and face and he was crying in pain next to me. It was horrible.

 

:grouphug:

 

That sounds like a nightmare!

[Peela]

I'm truly not sure that the world IS getting worse. There's lots of bad things that happened in the past that no longer happen- I learned that through studying history :) The horror just manifests differently over the ages, but it's not new.

 

I think it might depend on what you focus. There are lots of amazing people doing amazing things. Acts of kindness happen every second. Many people devote their whole lives to helping others. At the same time as there is an apparent rise in selfishness, there is also a rise in people feeling freer to live their lives just how they choose, without basically being forced to live within a narrow set of acceptable guidelines as in past generations.

 

I would prefer the right and freedom to be selfish, personally, because if we dont honour our right to take care of ourselves as we want, we lose the right to authentically care for others from our freedom, rather than as an externally prescribed duty.

Of course, in an ideal world, everyone would be able to do both- self care and have the inner abundance to care for others. But it's not an ideal world, it just is what it is and I sure would prefer the rights I have now, to the ones of the past. At least we can have this conversation. As least we can breastfeed in public and are not stuck at home.

 

It's all in balance, it just depends on the angle you look from. I dont buy into the whole "the world is getting more and more selfish" thing because actually, the world has been pretty messed up for a long time, and doesnt look like getting fixed up anytime soon.

 

I do think as we get older, though, we have a tendency to get a bit less tolerant, and a bit more grumpy with it all, and then look back and idealise the past.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

*I* believe the greater evil weighs on the side of giving moms a hard time which prevents some women from choosing breastfeeding.

 

Ok, I get this. You're saying if a woman is afraid that when nursing in public she has to be overly concerned about any showing of skin, she may not even try it, right? I can see that.

 

But, I think a woman who has no concern about showing any skin is also at fault, because these are the women who give nursers *that* stereotype. It doesn't take many instances of seeing a bare breast for people (especially those unfamiliar or against public nursing) to think that all of us are like that. They point to the ONE woman walking around the grocery store with her shirt wide open, or the ONE sitting in King's Dominion with her breast bare for all to see (while another poor family is trying to have a picnic!) and they say, "See! That's why women shouldn't nurse in public." So, I think those few really do make it harder for the rest of us. It (usually) isn't necessary to be so blantant while nursing.

 

This is just like the homeschooling stereotype (and all stereotypes, really) There are those few homeschoolers we hear in the news who's kids are unsocialized, abused, or worse. Then the rest of the pro-school population points to them and says, "See, that's why homeschooling should be illegal." And that's why the rest of us have to jump through all these hoops (district notification, record keeping, association membership, to name a few.) Like it or not, it makes the larger majority uncomfortable to see people doing things differently...as if for some reason a nursing mother or a homeschooler is a threat, as if what we are doing will affect them somehow. (which it will....healthy babies and smarter children are less likely to need government assistance later on.) If the trailblazers would just realize, "Hey, I'm doing something that not everyone will understand or even like, so maybe I should do my best to smooth things over and just get along, while still maintaining my right to be different" it would also encourage (most of) the larger majority to be less combative and opposed to whatever we are doing. When the majority sees most homeschoolers being "sociable" and educated, the more homeschooling will be accepted as another educational option. The more nursing mothers are seen feeding their babies without showing more of themselves, the more others will think, "Oh, she's just feeding her baby...that's great." But (for whatever reason) the sight of a bare breast freaks people out, and then they can't see the forest through the trees, so to speak (instead of she's just trying to feed her baby)....and ALL nursing mothers are back to being outcasts. I hate the fact that nursing mothers are still viewed as being different, but I think cooperation and respect (on both sides) would go a long way in making it a more accepted practice in public. I know, I know....in other countries people seem to do it with no problem or controversy. But, we don't live there, and we Americans have a long way to go in some areas. We need baby steps, not giant leaps (or breasts...in this case! Heeheehee.;)) As long as people (even a few) go out of their way to be "different," it always will be.

 

 

If there starts being an issue about modesty I WILL let it all out and nurse as immodestly as possible if it means saving another mom from being harassed.

 

 

Sis, I'm so glad you were able to nurse your baby. I know that it certainly benefitted him greatly and he is healthier today because of it. I know there are medical conditions or even just fussy baby times when a breast may make more of an appearance than the mother would prefer. We've all been there, in one way or another. That certainly isn't the issue here. I'm referring to the more "militant" (for lack of a better word) moms who might nurse blantanly just because they can. I can totally understand the "mother bear" instinct of "Don't you dare oppose me because I'm just trying to feed my kid." My husband's cousin once questioned my (fully covered) nursing while we were in a restaurant. As tempted as I was to uncover and be really indiscreet, instead I shot back, "Let's go to Hooters, then, because you'll be seeing breasts all over the place and I'll look like I'm wearing a burka covered up like this!"

 

"Letting it all hang out" will not keep another mother from being harrassed. It will just make you another example for the naysayers to use in their argument against public nursing, and THAT will certainly not help other mothers.

 

I'm on the same side....I really am. I just think this is one of those times where you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

[Peela]

But, I think a woman who has no concern about showing any skin is also at fault, because these are the women who give nursers *that* stereotype. It doesn't take many instances of seeing a bare breast for people (especially those unfamiliar or against public nursing) to think that all of us are like that.

 

This is just like the homeschooling stereotype (and all stereotypes, really) There are those few homeschoolers we hear in the news who's kids are unsocialized, abused, or worse. Then the rest of the pro-school population points to them and says, "See, that's why homeschooling should be illegal." And that's why the rest of us have to jump through all these hoops (district notification, record keeping, association membership, to name a few.)

 

I think your thinking caters to the lowest common denominator of people who get swayed by the one case of a delinquent homeschooler or the not so common case of women breastfeeding indiscreetly. I dont think its anyone's business to worry about what others are thinking, really. Its everyones business to do what they feel is right.

I dont think the parent of the delinquent homeschooler should bring the child into line to stop giving homeschooling a bad name. They should deal with their child because its just the right thing to do, the most loving thing to do. Same with breastfeeding- it's just a non issue to me, but I really dont think people should cover up so that the rest of us can keep our good breastfeeding reputation. I actually think the only valid reason for covering up would be to avoid unwanted attention because our community is too immature to deal with it and from experience, I can say that when I am sitting breastfeeding, I simply don't WANT anyone staring. But in a comfortable environment, heck, go for it.

I think if you come from the perspective of the "greater good" on those types of issues, you dont allow for people doing what they feel is right, however misguided it seems to you, and however ignorant they are.

A delinquent homeschooler to you, might be a free spirited teenager learning how to express himself to me....it's all the filters you look through.

SO I guess I fall into the "selfish" camp because I just dont want anyone telling me what is right and wrong and what is for the best...I can work it out for myself and I give that freedom to anyone else, too, even if I dont agree with them.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

I think your thinking caters to the lowest common denominator of people who get swayed by the one case of a delinquent homeschooler or the not so common case of women breastfeeding indiscreetly. I dont think its anyone's business to worry about what others are thinking, really. Its everyones business to do what they feel is right.

I dont think the parent of the delinquent homeschooler should bring the child into line to stop giving homeschooling a bad name. They should deal with their child because its just the right thing to do, the most loving thing to do. Same with breastfeeding- it's just a non issue to me, but I really dont think people should cover up so that the rest of us can keep our good breastfeeding reputation. I actually think the only valid reason for covering up would be to avoid unwanted attention because our community is too immature to deal with it and from experience, I can say that when I am sitting breastfeeding, I simply don't WANT anyone staring. But in a comfortable environment, heck, go for it.

I think if you come from the perspective of the "greater good" on those types of issues, you dont allow for people doing what they feel is right, however misguided it seems to you, and however ignorant they are.

A delinquent homeschooler to you, might be a free spirited teenager learning how to express himself to me....it's all the filters you look through.

SO I guess I fall into the "selfish" camp because I just dont want anyone telling me what is right and wrong and what is for the best...I can work it out for myself and I give that freedom to anyone else, too, even if I dont agree with them.

 

I think I understand the point you are trying to make. We have the freedom to do whatever we feel is right. Yes, I agree...that's why I homeschool, that's why I breastfed, that's why I didn't vaccinate "on schedule."

 

I think you are missing my point. We don't live in a bubble. The majority (however immature, ignorant, whatever...they are still the majority) looks what we do and makes assumptions about it. The deliquent homeschooler (and I should have said deliquent or abusive homeschooling parent...not the children) makes all of us look bad, makes all of us have to jump through hoops, and pretty much makes it certain that homeschooling will always be considered "different" or "on the fringe" rather than just another form of education. Can I dare say that these deliquent homeschooling parents even put my freedom to homeschool at risk?

 

It doesn't matter what I personally think about seeing a bare breast while nursing, or seeing a group of "free spirited" homeschoolers. But by purposely being "different" (just because we can) we shoot ourselves in the foot because unfortunately, the majority makes the rules. If that means covering up just so others aren't offended and so that I can keep public nursing legal, then I'll cover up because if it were to become illegal I can guarantee that even fewer moms would nurse their babies.

 

I don't agree with the majority on a lot of things, but I try to be considerate of their feelings while helping them understand my needs. You can say to yourself, "I'm going to do what I want, however I want" and that's your choice, but please realize that your choice does affect others, whether or not you think so.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Mrs. Frankweiler
grammer mistakes

[PineFarmMom]

.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Texas T

[Mom-ninja.]

I have to agree. It is all about mutual respect. I have always said if you want to live that way, fine, but don't force it on me. I won't force my beliefs or way of living on you.

 

When my dc were babies, I didn't BF for different reasons. I don't have a problem with those that do, but I don't necessarily want it out and in my dc faces in public. I know that there are situations where it can't necessarily be avoided, but most of the time you can work around it. I worked around my kids schedules as much as possible, and they were on a bottle. I'm not going to tell you to stop because I don't agree, I will just remove my dc from that situation. I would appreciate the same courtesy back. I'm not asking you to stop, just be respectful of others.

 

It is the same for smoking. I have asthma and that is a major trigger for me. I don't go to bars, pool halls, etc. where I know there will be smoking. I just wish I could go to Sonic for a drink without the workers standing outside smoking. You have to open the window to order, and it comes right in the car. Doesn't seem to matter where I park. I know that going in, so it is a choice I have to make. On the other hand, my brother smokes. A couple of years ago he wanted to visit with me so he picked me up to go to Starbucks. He sat at the table across from me and smoked 2 cigarettes. I was having the worst flare up I've ever had, and he knew that. They almost put me in the hospital a few days before, yet he did it with the attitude of "get over it". His son is allergic to peanuts, I would never knowingly give him some and make him sick, but he doesn't return the same respect.

 

I really think that kids are not taught to respect others. I know my generation wasn't, and it's even worse with my kid's generation. I don't want everyone to be the same, but at some point we have to learn to live together. That means giving and taking on BOTH sides, not just the other person.

 

This post above proves to me that we still have a long way to go with normalizing breastfeeding. I think it is very sad sad sad that you are equating your desire to not be exposed to breastfeeding along with not be exposed to second hand smoke. So sad.

 

Second hand smoke has an actual physical and medical impact on others. Breastfeeding does not. In fact smoking harms....breastfeeding gives health.

 

As for being respectful to others.....I agree to an extent. I do not talk about my religious beliefs because it makes others uncomfortable. I keep most of my parenting philosophies to myself. I do usuaslly make effort to be polite, and that means keeping my mouth shut mostly. :tongue_smilie:

[Dirtroad]

OP, I do not think individualism has anything to do with it. Individualism is the concept of not needing a group to take care of things or of you.... you are able to think, plan, produce, and get things accomplished without relying on others or depending on others to level a field. (working with others in a business, but not depending upon them for it all or for your motivation, etc)

 

I think "in your face" cultural things are not individualism but are statements/protests, defiance, or indifference to others. I think this is where the rudeness can play a huge factor.... basically in how they handle it. When a Mom was told she couldn't breast feed her baby near the pool & other Moms showed up to support her.. that is protest & perhaps very good. When someone says, please coverup b/c it makes some uncomfortable & the Mom waves a near naked breast at them, that is defiance & rude to me. I think it is in HOW it is done and not what is done. I also must respect that some people are uncomfortable and older people didn't even see pregnant women out & about.... so it is very different expectations & I would cover up to respect them. At home, I might cover a bit more with men around... but not at all if alone. I would make the decision depending on the environment. However, I refuse to nurse in a filthy bathroom b/c I got stuck in a store or restaurant at a feeding time. Same for other areas of this discussion - not just breastfeeding.

 

I think another issue is the loss of community personality or character. Long ago, a little town had it's own accent, way of doing things, and style of school, etc. Even when my grandmother was young, things were still very different from town to town... the cafes, the buildings, phrases & dialects, the churches... many things reflected a character of that town. People understood the local code of behavior (good or bad) and were able to easily maneuver for the most part.

 

Today it is all chain stores, mixes of attitudes & peoples with a 1000 different backgrounds, McDonalds & WalMart lifestyles... less distinct & in some ways more chaotic or confusing on the character of the town. The little towns are more like big cities of old... but they can't handle it in the same manner b/c there are not enough people to find common interest, styles, and preferences. People seem to be more isolated & know less about their neighbors and community. So the chaos is more frustrating and disruptive.... we know our neighbors less.... and we are more insensitive b/c we can't keep up with all the expectations or differences.

 

I don't mean big differences like racism or issues that are always wrong... I just mean in general personality, preferences & character that a community would share... it is now very blurry & even lost... so, we do not navigate our waters as well. And, in time, become even more defiant, frustrated or insensitive to others.

 

Another issue is the HUGE self-esteem movement that was/is pushed in schools. It is all about ME... ME... ME. Make a mistake at a redlight or in a traffic lane & see how much compassion and understanding you see in the opposite drivers eyes... NOT MUCH... b/c You have dared to error & interfere with THEIR driving lane. How dare you mentality is huge and overflows into lack of symphathy, compassion or patience for fellow man.

 

Sorry long... hoped it added to the conversation.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Dirtroad

[mommyrooch]

There is so much talk about whether the male should or shouldn't get aroused in a public breastfeeding situation or what he should or shouldn't be thinking. Oh, please! Let's put the responsibility for this squarely where it belongs - on the woman choosing to feed openly or not. The OP was lamenting the loss of consideration for others in our society.

The woman breastfeeding in complete disregard to whether it might be uncomfortable or create a negative effect in others is taking a very self centered position. She may be within her rights, but she is showing no kindness or caring to others who may be struggling with their own weaknesses.

 

"Anyone who is aroused at seeing the average uncovered BFer in public has a problem. I would advise that person to spend more time in prayer regarding this issue."

 

I could run around in extremely suggestive clothing because it might be cooler than what I normally wear. I could say that my farmer neighbors have a problem because my clothing would put inappropriate thoughts into their heads. And I could march around, arrogant and stalwart in my position. OR I could have compassion on these people. I could think about the struggles they and their wives have been through and determine that I would suck it up and sweat a bit more and wear something that would not add to their problem. I could be a part of the solution, not adding fuel to the fire. If only I cared enough about my fellow human beings to inconvenience myself just the littlest bit. If they had improper thoughts, is it their problem not mine? Of course. Should they pray about their inadequacies? Of course. Am I reasonable to expect them to be perfect? Of course not. Am I? (That doesn't even deserve an answer!:D)

Each of us has the option of choosing to help our fellow human beings along in the struggle of life or to disregard them as we plow forward meeting our own needs, leaving them behind to deal with their own problems.

 

:iagree: with everything that is highlighted in red. The statement in black displays what I believe to be a large problem in our society. We at large have decided that we are only responsible for ourselves and our own actions and we fail to realize that we actually have a responsibilty to our fellow man. Might I suggest that those of you that are christians with the belief that you are only responsible for yourselves please read 1 Corinthians 10:31-33.

 

1 Corinthians 10: 31-33 "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause ANYONE to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God-even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

This tells me that if the actions that I am doing might cause my fellow man to "stumble" then I should refrain from doing them. It doesn't matter if it's my "right" to do it. It doesn't even matter if they are wrong for wanting me to. As a christian, I have been instruction to not cause ANYONE to stumble.

 

So, if by breastfeeding I might cause a young, impressionable boy (or a grown man for that matter) to "stumble" I will make every effort to refrain from that. While I know my baby needs to be fed I will make every effort to do so in a way that does not cause my fellow man to "stumble" Even if it's his "problem" It is my calling to "help" him in his walk.

 

"For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

I'm just using breastfeeding as an example here because this is what has been most discussed but I do not mean to single breastfeeding mothers out. My thoughts on this apply to ANY actions that might cause a fellow man to stumble. That could include the way I talk, dress, eat, dance, sing, walk, scratch or burp. :D If it offends my brothers and sisters I will make every effort to refrain from such actions for I do not want to cause them to "stumble" in their walk.

 

Love you neighbor as yourself. If the entire world would respond in this way topics like this would be a moot point.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[nmoira]

 

I'm just using breastfeeding as an example here because this is what has been most discussed but I do not mean to single breastfeeding mothers out. My thoughts on this apply to ANY actions that might cause a fellow man to stumble. That could include the way I talk, dress, eat, dance, sing, walk, scratch or burp. :D If it offends my brothers and sisters I will make every effort to refrain from such actions for I do not want to cause them to "stumble" in their walk.

There are few things you can do that don't have the potential to offend somebody. A few of the items you mention will cause offense in some people, no matter where you draw the choose to draw the line, unless you choose to abstain completely in public. How could you anticipate what actions of yours might cause a stranger to stumble?

[KidsHappen]

But by purposely being "different" (just because we can) we shoot ourselves in the foot because unfortunately, the majority makes the rules.

 

 

Maybe it is more of people are purposely being different just because they are different and they got tired of wasting effort trying to conform to the majority's rules. Just because they are the majority doesn't make them right.

 

I will admit I am one of the people you are talking about. I am kind and polite and I try to be neighborly and helpful but honestly, I am too busy dealing with the important things in life to worry about what small mind people are thinking. The truth of the matter is that once you get outside the black and white issues like murder, rape and assault into the grey areas like manners, where there is no definite rights and wrongs, where people's opinions can be mutually exclussive, the only was to maintain everyone's rights is to just agree to disagree. The minority doesn't have to adjust and the majority doesn't have to like it. Everyone has the right to act within the law, no matter how rude someone else may perceive it to be, and everyone has the right to be offended or complain when other's don't do what they think is right. That's is one of the truly great things about this country. We have the freedom to live our lives our way and complain with other's don't do the same (live their lives our way).

 

Me personally, I have a live and let live philosophy. I have strong opinions on some matters but for the most part I just accept people for who they are. I also rarely have the time or energy to be paying enough attention to people, who are not a part of my immediate life, to be offended by them. I guess oblivious is sometimes a good place to be. Good thing too because I don't know that my life could handle any additional, unneccessary stress.

Edited September 11, 2009 by KidsHappen

[8circles]

:iagree: with everything that is highlighted in red. The statement in black displays what I believe to be a large problem in our society. We at large have decided that we are only responsible for ourselves and our own actions and we fail to realize that we actually have a responsibilty to our fellow man. Might I suggest that those of you that are christians with the belief that you are only responsible for yourselves please read 1 Corinthians 10:31-33.

 

 

I didn't suggest that I'm only responsible for myself. I stand by my statement that there is nothing about BF that should arouse anyone. If a man finds that watching the average BF woman (which I believe would mean being discreet & not showing any of her breast) arousing, it isn't her problem. The same line of thinking is used to cover a woman's face, which I find quite disturbing.

[8circles]

1 Corinthians 10: 31-33 "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause ANYONE to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God-even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

This tells me that if the actions that I am doing might cause my fellow man to "stumble" then I should refrain from doing them. It doesn't matter if it's my "right" to do it. It doesn't even matter if they are wrong for wanting me to. As a christian, I have been instruction to not cause ANYONE to stumble.

 

So, if by breastfeeding I might cause a young, impressionable boy (or a grown man for that matter) to "stumble" I will make every effort to refrain from that. While I know my baby needs to be fed I will make every effort to do so in a way that does not cause my fellow man to "stumble" Even if it's his "problem" It is my calling to "help" him in his walk.

 

"For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

 

I'm just using breastfeeding as an example here because this is what has been most discussed but I do not mean to single breastfeeding mothers out. My thoughts on this apply to ANY actions that might cause a fellow man to stumble. That could include the way I talk, dress, eat, dance, sing, walk, scratch or burp. :D If it offends my brothers and sisters I will make every effort to refrain from such actions for I do not want to cause them to "stumble" in their walk.

 

Love you neighbor as yourself. If the entire world would respond in this way topics like this would be a moot point.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I assure you that me BF my child in public is done for God's glory. I would not be causing any man to stumble if my BF triggers his thoughts to go astray. Rather, the society and/or parents who conditioned him to be aroused by non-sexual things is where the fault lies. It is in that that God is not glorified.

[Merry]

OP, I do not think individualism has anything to do with it. Individualism is the concept of not needing a group to take care of things or of you.... you are able to think, plan, produce, and get things accomplished without relying on others or depending on others to level a field. (working with others in a business, but not depending upon them for it all or for your motivation, etc)

 

I think "in your face" cultural things are not individualism but are statements/protests, defiance, or indifference to others. I think this is where the rudeness can play a huge factor.... basically in how they handle it. When a Mom was told she couldn't breast feed her baby near the pool & other Moms showed up to support her.. that is protest & perhaps very good. When someone says, please coverup b/c it makes some uncomfortable & the Mom waves a near naked breast at them, that is defiance & rude to me. I think it is in HOW it is done and not what is done. I also must respect that some people are uncomfortable and older people didn't even see pregnant women out & about.... so it is very different expectations & I would cover up to respect them. At home, I might cover a bit more with men around... but not at all if alone. I would make the decision depending on the environment. However, I refuse to nurse in a filthy bathroom b/c I got stuck in a store or restaurant at a feeding time. Same for other areas of this discussion - not just breastfeeding.

 

I think another issue is the loss of community personality or character. Long ago, a little town had it's own accent, way of doing things, and style of school, etc. Even when my grandmother was young, things were still very different from town to town... the cafes, the buildings, phrases & dialects, the churches... many things reflected a character of that town. People understood the local code of behavior (good or bad) and were able to easily maneuver for the most part.

 

Today it is all chain stores, mixes of attitudes & peoples with a 1000 different backgrounds, McDonalds & WalMart lifestyles... less distinct & in some ways more chaotic or confusing on the character of the town. The little towns are more like big cities of old... but they can't handle it in the same manner b/c there are not enough people to find common interest, styles, and preferences. People seem to be more isolated & know less about their neighbors and community. So the chaos is more frustrating and disruptive.... we know our neighbors less.... and we are more insensitive b/c we can't keep up with all the expectations or differences.

 

I don't mean big differences like racism or issues that are always wrong... I just mean in general personality, preferences & character that a community would share... it is now very blurry & even lost... so, we do not navigate our waters as well. And, in time, become even more defiant, frustrated or insensitive to others.

 

Another issue is the HUGE self-esteem movement that was/is pushed in schools. It is all about ME... ME... ME. Make a mistake at a redlight or in a traffic lane & see how much compassion and understanding you see in the opposite drivers eyes... NOT MUCH... b/c You have dared to error & interfere with THEIR driving lane. How dare you mentality is huge and overflows into lack of symphathy, compassion or patience for fellow man.

 

Sorry long... hoped it added to the conversation.

 

I think Dirt Road has it right. I've seen it happening in our own town. In the seven years we've lived in our medium sized college town, many political or religious refugees from other countries have moved here. That does cause some adjustment problems. Also, there are many new religious influences here. Emergent churches, muslims, new age, all have grown tremendously here in just a few short years. And two new different kinds of schools founded here recently. The university model school, and a private secular school. It's no wonder that our town is having problems with customer service at Walmart or other stores. Just the other day, I observed a small group of African people in their beautiful African clothes talking with a middle eastern Muslim store worker about the fruit at Walmart. And an Indian woman with a sari and jewel on her forehead was walking past them. This is just a small, average Midwest town. No wonder we seem to be more self absorbed than before. It's hard for people to deal with so many small changes everywhere so they sort of shut down and keep to themselves. I think our town is losing its cohensiveness. When we first moved here, we were impressed by how friendly the cashiers were. Not so much anymore. There is still some friendliness and warmth but it's less.

[ma23peas]

I think if someone shows they are uncomfortable with an exposed breast, it is rude to not offer to cover up...I think it's rude not to cover up in the first place...it's distasteful, inconsiderate, selfish and self-important...no matter what the reason may be for someone being uncomfortable for seeing an exposed breast, we have laws against exposing breasts...we don't have to explain all the reasons why, now if I'm on an airplane and it crashes and I've lost all my coverups, then I'm going to pull my breast out and feed...but to deliberately choose not to cover up is just all those words I described above. Decency, respect of others and common sense trump, "get over it it's a breast"...sorry.

[Mrs Mungo]

Just because they are the majority doesn't make them right.

 

The minority doesn't have to adjust and the majority doesn't have to like it. Everyone has the right to act within the law, no matter how rude someone else may perceive it to be, and everyone has the right to be offended or complain when other's don't do what they think is right. That's is one of the truly great things about this country. We have the freedom to live our lives our way and complain with other's don't do the same (live their lives our way).

 

:iagree:

 

Me personally, I have a live and let live philosophy. I have strong opinions on some matters but for the most part I just accept people for who they are. I also rarely have the time or energy to be paying enough attention to people, who are not a part of my immediate life, to be offended by them. I guess oblivious is sometimes a good place to be. Good thing too because I don't know that my life could handle any additional, unneccessary stress.

 

:iagree:

 

I didn't suggest that I'm only responsible for myself. I stand by my statement that there is nothing about BF that should arouse anyone. If a man finds that watching the average BF woman (which I believe would mean being discreet & not showing any of her breast) arousing, it isn't her problem. The same line of thinking is used to cover a woman's face, which I find quite disturbing.

 

:iagree:

 

I think Dirt Road has it right. I've seen it happening in our own town. In the seven years we've lived in our medium sized college town, many political or religious refugees from other countries have moved here. That does cause some adjustment problems. Also, there are many new religious influences here. Emergent churches, muslims, new age, all have grown tremendously here in just a few short years. And two new different kinds of schools founded here recently. The university model school, and a private secular school. It's no wonder that our town is having problems with customer service at Walmart or other stores. Just the other day, I observed a small group of African people in their beautiful African clothes talking with a middle eastern Muslim store worker about the fruit at Walmart. And an Indian woman with a sari and jewel on her forehead was walking past them. This is just a small, average Midwest town. No wonder we seem to be more self absorbed than before. It's hard for people to deal with so many small changes everywhere so they sort of shut down and keep to themselves. I think our town is losing its cohensiveness. When we first moved here, we were impressed by how friendly the cashiers were. Not so much anymore. There is still some friendliness and warmth but it's less.

 

Being in a situation where we move a lot I think you see a place as more warm and friendly when you first move there. The longer you live there, the more you see the problems inherent in any place where humans live. We're all highly imperfect (and The Bible counsels us in this, we should be merciful, we shouldn't judge, over and over it's stated), we have vastly differently lives and the more people you get in one spot, the more true that is.

 

I'm afraid that I don't understand the connection between new educational opportunities, new religious services, multiculturalism and bad customer service though. :confused:

[Mrs Mungo]

no matter what the reason may be for someone being uncomfortable for seeing an exposed breast, we have laws against exposing breasts...

 

Actually, we have laws *specifically protecting* breastfeeding women. Both federal and state laws have come into existence for the very reason I refuse to judge other women on this issue-when you protect breastfeeding women, they are more likely to nurse in public, more people are exposed to it, breastfeeding is normalized. I think that is an extraordinarily important goal and trumps the handful of women who don't comply with someone else's standard of modesty.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

How can you determine for certain that someone is "purposely" being different? (And aren't we as homeschoolers purposely being different?) If you follow your own line of reasoning you should avoid homeschooling because it is different and doesn't fit in with what the majority of people do.

 

:banghead::banghead:

 

"It all depends on what your definition of the word IS is."

 

Please change the word "purposely" (which may not even be a word?) to "radically" I'm not a radical homeschooler. I'm not a radical breastfeeder.

 

Doing anything in a radical or extreme way makes you a bad example for that group, and gives others (the majority, who don't participate in your preferred lifestyle) an excuse for always keeping that lifestyle in an "unusual" status. People always remember the extremes, never the silent majority of homeschoolers, breastfeeders, whoever... who are just trying to do what's best for their kids. I've seen countless of breastfeeding women and I haven't thought twice about how they feed their babies. But, I will always, vividly, remember the woman nursing her baby at the grocery store with her shirt wide open for all the world to see. If any of us ever go to Kings Dominion, we will probably remember the story on this thread of the woman who let it all hang out while she fed her baby. Naysayers use these types of examples and then derive from that that all breastfeeders must be like this and use that excuse to try to curb public breastfeeding.

 

We need to be considerate of others feelings, especially when we do something that others consider different or fringe. It might be nice to act in a way where it doesn't matter what others think of the things we do, but that is not reality. The repercussions and attention the radicals receive may very well scare off others who would like to be different in a way less radical way (future breastfeeders, homeschoolers, etc...)

[Slartibartfast]

I think I understand the point you are trying to make. We have the freedom to do whatever we feel is right. Yes, I agree...that's why I homeschool, that's why I breastfed, that's why I didn't vaccinate "on schedule."

 

I think you are missing my point. We don't live in a bubble. The majority (however immature, ignorant, whatever...they are still the majority) looks what we do and makes assumptions about it. The deliquent homeschooler (and I should have said deliquent or abusive homeschooling parent...not the children) makes all of us look bad, makes all of us have to jump through hoops, and pretty much makes it certain that homeschooling will always be considered "different" or "on the fringe" rather than just another form of education. Can I dare say that these deliquent homeschooling parents even put my freedom to homeschool at risk?

 

It doesn't matter what I personally think about seeing a bare breast while nursing, or seeing a group of "free spirited" homeschoolers. But by purposely being "different" (just because we can) we shoot ourselves in the foot because unfortunately, the majority makes the rules. If that means covering up just so others aren't offended and so that I can keep public nursing legal, then I'll cover up because if it were to become illegal I can guarantee that even fewer moms would nurse their babies.

 

I don't agree with the majority on a lot of things, but I try to be considerate of their feelings while helping them understand my needs. You can say to yourself, "I'm going to do what I want, however I want" and that's your choice, but please realize that your choice does affect others, whether or not you think so.

 

But you see, the "modern" over emphases on modesty makes Christians look bad. It will give someone an impression that Christians care more for one man's squeamishness over the needs of a child.

 

Even in the most orthodox Muslim countries a woman nursing her baby isn't seen as immodest, showing her hair is but not a little bit of breast while nursing. Only here in the US is someone performing such a natural and God intended act expected to jump through so many hoops for one squeamish man.

 

There is more breast showing on magazine covers, with swimsuits and some shirts I see on people in the mall than a normal mother shows while breastfeeding. Maybe the emphases on breasts as sexual is more of an issue than a mother nursing. Seeing breasts being utilized as their God intended purpose might also help someone stay on the path of righteousness knowing that it is a normal process and they won't expire from overwhelming desire every time they see a tiny strip of flesh by an infant's mouth.

 

 

If someone is talking about Breastfeeders in a negative manner then my response is generally to view them as ignorant. I might not say anything but I do think less of them.

 

If I knew they were Christian I would be embarassed. I would also know my non-Christian acquaintance would just roll their eyes and say "See? This is why."

 

It goes both ways.

Edited September 11, 2009 by Sis

[Jen500]

:

We need to be considerate of others feelings, especially when we do something that others consider different or fringe.

 

We do???

This thread is reminding me of that other thread about who is allowed/not allowed to wear a bikini in public.

[8circles]

Please change the word "purposely" (which may not even be a word?) to "radically" I'm not a radical homeschooler. I'm not a radical breastfeeder.

...

We need to be considerate of others feelings, especially when we do something that others consider different or fringe. It might be nice to act in a way where it doesn't matter what others think of the things we do, but that is not reality. The repercussions and attention the radicals receive may very well scare off others who would like to be different in a way less radical way (future breastfeeders, homeschoolers, etc...)

 

Doesn't everyone define "radical" differently? I don't think I'm "radical" because I HS, some people think that's extremely radical. I don't think I'm radical because of my educational philosophy (loosely classical) but some people do. I don't think I'm radical because I'm more concerned with my young children learning about & growing closer to God than academics, some people do. I don't think I'm radical because I don't enjoy idle chatter with the neighbors, maybe some people do. I don't think I'm radical because I discreetly BF my children in public without covering & without making other people's feelings about that more important than my own. Some people do.

 

I actually don't really care about what other people's opinions of my choices are. I make the choices that I believe are Godly choices. I fail to see how caring about what other people thought about my choices would in any way benefit myself, my family, society, or would be pleasing to God.