"I do what I want, too bad for you" trend

[Mrs Mungo]

Here's an example that shows you just never judge: I was on my way somewhere the other day and a car coming from the other direction slowed down, it was obvious the driver needed to ask me something. So I stopped and he needed directions to the middle school for some event. There's construction around it and the main route is blocked, so I gave him the directions. People started honking at us and giving us dirty looks (they could have just gone around). When I thought about it from their perspective, we could have just been neighbors chatting about anything, and that would definitely be perceived as rude-they might even come to a message board such as this and complain about how everyone's just rude. But from my P.O.V. I was being helpful-not wanting to disappoint a kid who expects his father to see him play a game or whatever.

 

I agree with this as well. When discussing road rage a woman on another board suggested imagining people who cut you off while driving have explosive diarrhea. I *always* imagine this now, it makes me take a deep breath and let it go and even chuckle to myself.

 

I think the real problem is that most of us live in huge cities where we do NOT know each other's situations. In days gone by you would have known that my child has asthma and you shouldn't smoke around him. In days gone by I would know that Betty Sue's mother is sick and she's likely to break down in tears over any little thing. In days gone by I would know that Bob just lost his job and he's feeling mad at the world. We are willing to cut people slack when we know them, why can't we just decide we don't really know what's going on with people and go ahead and cut them some slack even when they might not deserve it?

[OH_Homeschooler]

I still think that no matter was said in this post to point out the OP's fault for posting this subject...her point was made clearly by peoples response in the negative. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing...there is however something wrong with things escalating to the nastiness that some of these threads get to. There are threads that are started and they could make for some really interesting debate but instead the go down in flames as this sort of mean spirited bickering and I know better than you cause this is how I feel and I'm gonna tell you about it in the nastiness way i possibly can. I'm gonna discredit you and call you names and curse you and your family and your whole way of life. There's nothing wrong with debate just keep it clean and above board....that's all I'm saying....

 

Well unfortunately, and you obviously don't see it the same way I do, the nastiness started in the OP. If you start a thread out in a nasty way, it will be a nasty thread. I'm not even talking about the BF debate, I'm talking about referring to other threads on this board, where people were looking for validation for not being as outgoing as others, as evidence of the declining nature of society. You must not have been a participant in those threads. If you were, you might see comments such as those posted in the OP as nasty. I don't think you will ever be able to see it the same way I do so I guess continuing to discuss it with you is a moot point. But I would like to remind you, and everyone, that there are always two sides to every story.

 

I also think it's funny that although I was an active participant in that "anti-social" thread, I seem to have a more positive view about the state of humanity (in that I don't believe we're going to hell in a handbasket) than the person who complained about anti-social people.

:001_huh:

[Lovedtodeath]

You misunderstand. It's not that I prioritize my right to show my breast over the rights of others. It's that I refuse to concede that (ostensibly mature) adults have the right to prioritize their own discomfort with the human body and its basic purposes over the right of a child to be fed. My job is to feed my kid when he/she is hungry. Someone's else's desire to squeal and jump up on a chair b/c they saw a nipple is not my problem, and it's just plain silly.

 

That particular argument is also a slippery slope. Part of the reason some women refuse to discuss covering up is because, as soon as they concede,

women everywhere will be scrutinized to see if they're "covering up enough". To me, it's not one bit different from the argument that homeschoolers should not provide one more bit of information to the district than they're legally required to. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

So, while I don't necessarily disagree with the rest of your post, I'd say that this particular topic is absolutely an issue of "making the world a better place". I feel it's an issue of social justice.

:iagree:Well stated! Most of us do try to be polite while breastfeeding, but never showing anything simply isn't possible. For example, try putting a blanket over a kid with asthma who sweats profusely from the effort of nursing to begin with. What about the fidgety baby who plays with the blanket, or mom's shirt? Mom should leave the room? Miss dinner, miss conversations and not be able to finish a grocery trip. Oh, maybe she just can't nurse at all then... very slippery slope! Edited September 10, 2009 by Lovedtodeath

[*********]

I agree with this as well. When discussing road rage a woman on another board suggested imagining people who cut you off while driving have explosive diarrhea. I *always* imagine this now, it makes me take a deep breath and let it go and even chuckle to myself.

 

I think the real problem is that most of us live in huge cities where we do NOT know each other's situations. In days gone by you would have known that my child has asthma and you shouldn't smoke around him. In days gone by I would know that Betty Sue's mother is sick and she's likely to break down in tears over any little thing. In days gone by I would know that Bob just lost his job and he's feeling mad at the world. We are willing to cut people slack when we know them, why can't we just decide we don't really know what's going on with people and go ahead and cut them some slack even when they might not deserve it?

 

AMEN sister, amen.

 

I know I've been given things I don't deserve; in fact, if I was given what I 'deserve', I'd be burning in an eternal lake of fire right now.

 

BTW, I will now and forever think 'explosive diarrhea' whenever someone cuts me off. :D

[Word Nerd]

It's not just here where that thread got nasty, it seems to happen on any message board where the topic is brought up.

 

But it does sort of help me understand why the whole notion of this thread bothers me. I am the type of person who always returns carts. I do a variety of nice things, just like anyone. But it seems like the OP would disregard those behaviors just because I am not the kind of person to exchange niceties frequently. Then she would point to my not extremely social behavior and say that was evidence for a downturn in society.

 

This is why I truly believe it's worthless to talk about how society is getting ruder. People have a multitude of behaviors and attitudes and we are only seeing one part of those when we observe them. And we do look for the things that are important to us-that's only natural. So I can totally relate to the toilet seat issue brought up earlier, and yes I do complain when I sit down in someone else's puddle. But I don't use that as an indictment on society as a whole. I just think that person was rude in that instance. This person who left a puddle may spend all of her free time reading to the blind, I just don't know.

 

Here's an example that shows you just never judge: I was on my way somewhere the other day and a car coming from the other direction slowed down, it was obvious the driver needed to ask me something. So I stopped and he needed directions to the middle school for some event. There's construction around it and the main route is blocked, so I gave him the directions. People started honking at us and giving us dirty looks (they could have just gone around). When I thought about it from their perspective, we could have just been neighbors chatting about anything, and that would definitely be perceived as rude-they might even come to a message board such as this and complain about how everyone's just rude. But from my P.O.V. I was being helpful-not wanting to disappoint a kid who expects his father to see him play a game or whatever.

 

So honestly, you just never know the whole story and yes, people will become prickly when you complain about them on a message board, and even use their words on that message board as evidence for the true evil sprouting up in society.

 

:iagree: You have articulated my problem with these kinds of threads (including the shopping cart one) well. I agree with the OP's overall point. What I don't agree with is using isolated incidents to make sweeping generalizations about individuals and groups.

 

When I was in high school and the president of my 4-H club, I was busy one afternoon before the fair putting a booth for our club together. I was running around trying to multitask and delegate and make sure everything on my checklist was getting taken care of. One of the older ladies from our rural community apparently said something to me at some point. I don't recall ever even seeing her that day, much less hearing her ask me a question. She later confronted me in front of a group of people to "put me in my place" for allegedly snubbing her. She said I was rude, disrespectful, and prejudiced against my elders, among other things. I was an example of what's wrong with teens and the world today, and on and on. I was flabbergasted, as I had no idea what she was even referring to. She didn't stop until she had me in tears. I tried to talk to her about it later, but she wasn't interested in hearing my side of the story or even an apology. I'm still sorry to this day that I overlooked her and was so busy that day I didn't notice she was trying to interact with me. But her reaction was completely uncalled for and unfair. Not only did she judge me, she used that one incident as an excuse to judge all teens.

Edited September 10, 2009 by WordGirl

[hillfarm]

To me, this is an example of people having way too much time on their hands, and too much self-interest to live.

 

So self-interested people should not be permitted to live???

 

The busy mother comment in my previous post was regarding the portion of this thread dealing with not taking time to chat with others. I was addressing my own unusual availability to take part in this discussion, not claiming to be the only busy farm wife here.

 

This thread is about consideration of others, not breastfeeding or shopping carts. It is obvious that due to the wide variety cultural and moral sensibilities here (note NOT sensitivities), that we hold many differing and strong opinions on whether it is appropriate to breastfeed openly in public. No one is arguing that babies should be made to starve. Some of us want to be helpful by returning carts, others feel that the risk to their children is too great to do so.

 

Regarding the topic of consideration of others, it is not babies vs. males. If a woman covers, no baby will go unfed. This is not the issue here. The issue is not about whether others should be able to handle it. It is not about cart returners vs. cart leavers. The issue is about whether fewer people are compassionate enough toward others to voluntarily surrender some of their rights or to "go that extra mile" to do something they don't have to in order to accommodate another person. Yes, if public feeding bothers a guy, then it would be considerate of him to go elsewhere so that he won't be bothered. But by the same token, the considerate thing for the mother to do would be to be as discreet as possible. My goodness, what might happen if both parties choose to be considerate? No miffed or offended people. No hungry babies. People thinking about what is best for others. Cart returners could offer to take women with children's carts in with their own. Why that could lead to random kindness and all sorts of other alarming behaviors!

 

We are living in a society at a time when Self is King. There is extreme and inordinate attention devoted to everyone getting their own way. I hope and pray that we can turn from this egocentricism, but fear that if we don't, our personal selfishness will usher in our collective downfall.

Edited September 10, 2009 by hillfarm

[OH_Homeschooler]

This thread is about consideration of others, not breastfeeding or shopping carts.

 

 

 

If this thread were truly about consideration of others, it would not have begun by insulting other people who frequent these boards.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes, if public feeding bothers a guy, then it would be considerate of him to go elsewhere so that he won't be bothered. But by the same token, the considerate thing for the mother to do would be to be as discrete as possible. My goodness, what might happen if both parties choose to be considerate? No miffed or offended people.

 

I see where you are going with this but I think I'm going to have to disagree. I never covered with a blanket except when my babies were newborns (harder to latch on) but I wasn't indiscreet, either. I wore clothes that facilitated nursing and didn't show anything. If I tried using a blanket with an older baby they thought it was hilarious and played peek-a-boo with it, making it much LESS discreet. I never had anyone say anything negative to me about it. *But* there are constantly people on the lookout to find something to be miffed or offended about. You aren't going to please everyone, no matter what.

 

eta: You also never know what people mean by "discreet." There was a homeschooling group at our church (a mega-church) where we used to live that I chose not to join. A large part of my reason was their emphatic statements regarding modesty on their website. One day one of the members (we were American Heritage Girls leaders together) asked me why I hadn't joined. When I told her she said "but you dress conservatively!" The thing is-it's hard to tell where other people's lines are. It's easy to put off people you don't intend to put off.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Mrs Mungo

[Saille]

So self-interested people should not be permitted to live???

 

It's a colloquialism.

 

My main point here is that breastfeeding, regardless of decorum, is not about self-interest, but being discomfited about it is.

 

However, I think the thread is (mostly) back on track now, so I'm going to hush.

[Senorita Tuna Fish]

Well unfortunately, and you obviously don't see it the same way I do, the nastiness started in the OP. If you start a thread out in a nasty way, it will be a nasty thread. I'm not even talking about the BF debate, I'm talking about referring to other threads on this board, where people were looking for validation for not being as outgoing as others, as evidence of the declining nature of society. You must not have been a participant in those threads. If you were, you might see comments such as those posted in the OP as nasty. I don't think you will ever be able to see it the same way I do so I guess continuing to discuss it with you is a moot point. But I would like to remind you, and everyone, that there are always two sides to every story.

 

I also think it's funny that although I was an active participant in that "anti-social" thread, I seem to have a more positive view about the state of humanity (in that I don't believe we're going to hell in a handbasket) than the person who complained about anti-social people.

:001_huh:

 

First of...calm down...no need to rake me over the coals because I don't read each and every post on here. I also never said the the world was going to hell in a hand basket. And since when does some one else being nasty mean that you have to be nasty too....There are lots of post on here and on other sites that I frequent that start out not offending anyone and spin off into a monster. You can be anti social if you wanna you can look to others to support you in that anti socialness....that's not my issue..I never said that that was wrong or right. But you don't have to be nasty...you don't ever have to be nasty even if someone is being nasty to you. You don't have to be offended either..you didn't even have to read the post or respond to the post. There is something to be said about just wallking away. One of the biggest reason that I rarely post on here or at all is because A: typing is a pain to me...I can't get the thoughts out fast enough for my brain to think them up and B: I don't want to get ripped apart because of it. Something simple as asking advice sometimes turnes into nonsense here....that's all I was saying...I deserve support too don't you think...as does the OP...soooooo....If you want to get snippy with me about a thread that you commented on to get some support that's fine...I have taken much worse!! BUT really...I'm done here!

[PineFarmMom]

 

My goodness, what might happen if both parties choose to be considerate? No miffed or offended people. No hungry babies. People thinking about what is best for others. Cart returners could offer to take women with children's carts in with their own. Why that could lead to random kindness and all sorts of other alarming behaviors!

 

We are living in a society at a time when Self is King. There is extreme and inordinate attention devoted to everyone getting their own way. I hope and pray that we can turn from this egocentricism, but fear that if we don't, our personal selfishness will usher in our collective downfall.

 

:iagree:Good points!! Good post!!

 

This reminds me of a church situation I was made aware of...a positive church situation. This is SO not to open another can of worms about types of church music!! A friend of mine in a small, sweet, loving, selfless little church told me that the elderly people really love hymns while the younger people really love praise music. Different people in each group made the point to go out of their way to request that the other side be given preference. The elderly were encouraging the praise music out of love for the younger praise music lovers, and vice versa. That always struck me as the way it should be all the way around!! In the end, everyone was happy because of the considerations given. "Do unto others..."

[Mandy in TN]

Regarding the topic of consideration of others, it is not babies vs. males. If a woman covers, no baby will go unfed. This is not the issue here. The issue is not about whether others should be able to handle it. It is not about cart returners vs. cart leavers. The issue is about whether fewer people are compassionate enough toward others to voluntarily surrender some of their rights or to "go that extra mile" to do something they don't have to in order to accommodate another person. Yes, if public feeding bothers a guy, then it would be considerate of him to go elsewhere so that he won't be bothered. But by the same token, the considerate thing for the mother to do would be to be as discrete as possible. My goodness, what might happen if both parties choose to be considerate? No miffed or offended people. No hungry babies. People thinking about what is best for others. Cart returners could offer to take women with children's carts in with their own. Why that could lead to random kindness and all sorts of other alarming behaviors!

:iagree: Just because you want to and you can doesn't mean you should. And doesn't doing a good deed toward another feel good? Isn't fun to let the other car out into the traffic or let the family cross the street or discreetly bf when you realize that the grandfather at the next table is visibly uncomfortable! Oh, and I've actually had another lady take my shopping cart. It was so nice.

 

Mandy

[OH_Homeschooler]

First of...calm down...no need to rake me over the coals because I don't read each and every post on here. I also never said the the world was going to hell in a hand basket. And since when does some one else being nasty mean that you have to be nasty too....There are lots of post on here and on other sites that I frequent that start out not offending anyone and spin off into a monster. You can be anti social if you wanna you can look to others to support you in that anti socialness....that's not my issue..I never said that that was wrong or right. But you don't have to be nasty...you don't ever have to be nasty even if someone is being nasty to you. You don't have to be offended either..you didn't even have to read the post or respond to the post. There is something to be said about just wallking away. One of the biggest reason that I rarely post on here or at all is because A: typing is a pain to me...I can't get the thoughts out fast enough for my brain to think them up and B: I don't want to get ripped apart because of it. Something simple as asking advice sometimes turnes into nonsense here....that's all I was saying...I deserve support too don't you think...as does the OP...soooooo....If you want to get snippy with me about a thread that you commented on to get some support that's fine...I have taken much worse!! BUT really...I'm done here!

 

 

Seriously, I'm rationally stating how I feel. I'm not that offended really, I just find the whole concept of this thread to be an oxymoron. I think perhaps you are doing the right thing by walking away, because you seem to be needing to calm down far more than I do. I'm sorry you felt "raked over the coals"-I didn't think I was that harsh on you. I was stating that I don't think we'll ever agree on this point and I think I was right.

 

As for your right to support, and the OP's right to support...of course you deserve that! I think you'd get more of it too, if only you wouldn't insult others in the process of seeking support.

Edited September 10, 2009 by OH_Homeschooler

[Senorita Tuna Fish]

Seriously, I'm rationally stating how I feel. I'm not that offended really, I just find the whole concept of this thread to be an oxymoron. I think perhaps you are doing the right thing by walking away, because you seem to be needing to calm down far more than I do. I'm sorry you felt "raked over the coals"-I didn't think I was that harsh on you. I was stating that I don't think we'll ever agree on this point and I think I was right.

 

As for your right to support, and the OP's right to support...of course you deserve that! I think you'd get more of it too, if only you wouldn't insult others in the process of seeking support.

 

I never said anything offensive to you or anyone other than there needs to be some more be nice in here...BE NICE!! I'm not upset...what's funny is that I read these things and know people are trying to get the other worked up and it works...I would never...never hand over my emotional control switch to anyone over the internet. Too many things lost in translation....The OP was just trying to say she noticed things are self centered in our society and it's manfested in these boards...regradless of he example she used...you can't help but notice how this spiraled out of control for no reason... BE Nice Be Nice....that's all. Sometimes saying nothing at all is better than commenting and taking things to a place they don't need to be......Now..I think i'm really done...;)

[unsinkable]

:iagree: Just because you want to and you can doesn't mean you should. And doesn't doing a good deed toward another feel good? Isn't fun to let the other car out into the traffic or let the family cross the street or discreetly bf when you realize that the grandfather at the next table is visibly uncomfortable! Oh, and I've actually had another lady take my shopping cart. It was so nice.

Mandy

 

That was me.

 

Kidding! I've never been to Tenn. but I do it Buffalo all the time.

[Lovedtodeath]

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (Today's New International Version)

 

1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people

[LibraryLover]

Oh no....I certainly didn't mean to offend non-nursers. It's such a personal choice. I'm really, truly sorry if I hurt your (or anyone's feelings) about that. I just had to defend myself about being called ignorant. Please forgive me.

 

 

 

Shoppers Food Warehouse....Fredericksburg, VA. I'm walking through the frozen food section and BAM! There's a mom walking around with her shirt wide open, everything hanging out...and her baby trying to nurse, but it's tricky with mom reaching in and out of the freezer. The kid wanted breastmilk, not ice cream! :lol: (Bad joke, trying to lighten the mood) Maybe not a very common site, but it does happen.

 

Most of my bfing friends pull the breast up and out of the shirt so the baby can have the skin contact. I used to see a lot more pulling up of clothing from the waist. I love to see a baby getting more skin and not having their faces covered by a shirt tail. I never pulled my breast up and out of my shirt, but I see it done way now, whereas I didn't ever used to see that. The Ergo upright -type baby carriers allow for this and I think it's nice. Like this:

 

 

http://www.the-ergo-lady.com/ergo-nursing-front.jpg

[Lovedtodeath]

The issue is about whether fewer people are compassionate enough toward others to voluntarily surrender some of their rights or to "go that extra mile" to do something they don't have to in order to accommodate another person. ..... People thinking about what is best for others. Cart returners could offer to take women with children's carts in with their own. Why that could lead to random kindness and all sorts of other alarming behaviors!

 

We are living in a society at a time when Self is King. There is extreme and inordinate attention devoted to everyone getting their own way. I hope and pray that we can turn from this egocentricism, but fear that if we don't, our personal selfishness will usher in our collective downfall.

:iagree:With the above, very much so. (I did cut some things out.)

[OH_Homeschooler]

I never said anything offensive to you or anyone other than there needs to be some more be nice in here...BE NICE!! I'm not upset...what's funny is that I read these things and know people are trying to get the other worked up and it works...I would never...never hand over my emotional control switch to anyone over the internet. Too many things lost in translation....The OP was just trying to say she noticed things are self centered in our society and it's manfested in these boards...regradless of he example she used...you can't help but notice how this spiraled out of control for no reason... BE Nice Be Nice....that's all. Sometimes saying nothing at all is better than commenting and taking things to a place they don't need to be......Now..I think i'm really done...;)

 

OMG, I never said you offended me. It was in your quote that people get offended too easily or whatever, and I was responding to that.

 

Yes, be nice, indeed. And yes, sometimes saying nothing is better than commenting. Or starting a thread out by insulting people.

[Lovedtodeath]

I agree with this as well. When discussing road rage a woman on another board suggested imagining people who cut you off while driving have explosive diarrhea. I *always* imagine this now, it makes me take a deep breath and let it go and even chuckle to myself.

 

I think the real problem is that most of us live in huge cities where we do NOT know each other's situations. In days gone by you would have known that my child has asthma and you shouldn't smoke around him. In days gone by I would know that Betty Sue's mother is sick and she's likely to break down in tears over any little thing. In days gone by I would know that Bob just lost his job and he's feeling mad at the world. We are willing to cut people slack when we know them, why can't we just decide we don't really know what's going on with people and go ahead and cut them some slack even when they might not deserve it?

:iagree:wonderful!

[jplain]

Yep, I give the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. I can't possibly know why anyone does what they do, especially in brief encounters, so I try to ascribe positive intentions to all actions. I love the diarrhea example. I think I'll have to apply it to tailgaters too. ;)

 

There seems to be a recurring theme that, "I don't feel like talking to you...so I won't answer the phone, make small talk, be neighborly, etc..... Too bad if this hurts your feelings but I just don't feel like doing these things so deal with it." Meanwhile, the person being ignored feels bad because the introvert doesn't feel like making any sort of effort to live in society.

If you'd posted this thought on the other thread, it might have inspired discussion of how introverts and extroverts who care for each other can reach compromises that are comfortable for everyone. This is an important issue.

 

I can't tell from the example above, but it sounds like you're referring to a casual acquaintance. It sounds as though the person with hurt feelings hasn't considered that the other person is not interested in making small talk, and may have no interest in developing a relationship. I'm also hearing that the person with hurt feelings believes that the introvert is somehow obligated to help her fulfill her social needs.

 

Here's what I believe: the limit of modern societal obligation is to be polite to strangers and casual acquaintances. Really, that's it. Expecting anything more is presumptuous.

 

But I also agree with other posters that when communities were more tight-knit, social obligation was greater. And honestly, even as introverted as I am, that would probably be fine with me. Being around people I know and love is not nearly as draining as being around near-strangers. I'd feel more obligation and I'd want more social interaction if I was surrounded by good friends and loved ones.

[Senorita Tuna Fish]

OMG, I never said you offended me. It was in your quote that people get offended too easily or whatever, and I was responding to that.

 

Yes, be nice, indeed. And yes, sometimes saying nothing is better than commenting. Or starting a thread out by insulting people.

 

Things getting lost in translation. I didn't say people get offended too easy...but on the other hand some times people look for this to get offended by. That being said...this about people giving of self and denying of self to make their fellow man feel better. Weather or not the thread is started off bad the point still remains. We are a growing community but a minority all the same and this kind of nastiness keeps us from being as supportive as we need o be to eachother. This should be a place where we can safely talk about or concerns without the fear of being ripped to shreds...if you don't agree with a post don't comment or do but by all means don't be mean...:)

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Things getting lost in translation. I didn't say people get offended too easy...but on the other hand some times people look for this to get offended by. That being said...this about people giving of self and denying of self to make their fellow man feel better. Weather or not the thread is started off bad the point still remains. We are a growing community but a minority all the same and this kind of nastiness keeps us from being as supportive as we need o be to eachother. This should be a place where we can safely talk about or concerns without the fear of being ripped to shreds...if you don't agree with a post don't comment or do but by all means don't be mean...:)

I didn't agree with everything said in the OP or some other posts, but I agree with the general sentiment, so I chose not to be offended.;)

[HRAAB]

I'm not the type of person to stand chatting with a neighbor over the fence. I'll say hi, wish the weather would cool down, your yard is looking great, but that's probably about it. I'm not a chatterer IRL. I've got my home, my children, my dh, and that's where I spend my time. I don't talk on the phone other than for business. Yes, I've been known not to answer the phone. If someone leaves a message, I will get back with them. Sometimes I have to prepare myself - like with my sister. :D

 

But that doesn't mean I won't leave my gate unlocked if your pump goes out and you need to get water, it doesn't mean I won't water your garden while your gone. If there's a death in the family, I'll bring over food and attend the funeral to support you. If there's a new baby, same thing. I'll keep your child for several days so you can make a trip out of town. I'll stop and let you out in traffic and if you have a couple items and I have a cart full, I'll let you go in front of me. I'll share my produce gladly and bring you a plate of cookies at Christmas (well, maybe not, since that one thread awhile back). I'll pray for you, too. Just don't expect too much idle chatter, cause that I don't do well.

 

Janet

[HRAAB]

2 Timothy 3:1-5 (Today's New International Version)

 

1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people

 

So how long have we been in the last days?

 

Do you think this is more applicable now than any other time in history? I really don't think basic human nature has changed much. We're still greedy and proud, you know.

 

Janet

[Senorita Tuna Fish]

I'm not the type of person to stand chatting with a neighbor over the fence. I'll say hi, wish the weather would cool down, your yard is looking great, but that's probably about it. I'm not a chatterer IRL. I've got my home, my children, my dh, and that's where I spend my time. I don't talk on the phone other than for business. Yes, I've been known not to answer the phone. If someone leaves a message, I will get back with them. Sometimes I have to prepare myself - like with my sister. :D

 

But that doesn't mean I won't leave my gate unlocked if your pump goes out and you need to get water, it doesn't mean I won't water your garden while your gone. If there's a death in the family, I'll bring over food and attend the funeral to support you. If there's a new baby, same thing. I'll keep your child for several days so you can make a trip out of town. I'll stop and let you out in traffic and if you have a couple items and I have a cart full, I'll let you go in front of me. I'll share my produce gladly and bring you a plate of cookies at Christmas (well, maybe not, since that one thread awhile back). I'll pray for you, too. Just don't expect too much idle chatter, cause that I don't do well.

 

Janet

 

Even with his own mother...he just doesn't do small talk. I think it's cool sometimes...but after being at home all day with kids....sometimes all i wanna do is talk to someone over the age of 5. I wanna hear myself say something other than no yes stop that...lol just kidding I say more than that to the kiddies..like get down from there and leave my cookies alone and stop putting your feet on yor sister!!! :lol:

[nmoira]

I agree with the OP's overall point. What I don't agree with is using isolated incidents to make sweeping generalizations about individuals and groups.

:iagree:

 

If you ascribe the best possible motives to the actions of others instead of the worst, much strife will be avoided. Civility and consideration go both ways, and life is too short to court a state of permanent offense.

[Tree House Academy]

I have not read this whole thread, but after reading the op, I can say that I can totally see it making some waves of its own. Perhaps if the example had not been given specific to breast feeding, it would have been better.

 

What I have found is that usually, there is no actual "herd." There is more an "us vs them" mentality. Trust me...there are two sides to every.single point of view. In the paypal thread, one of the posters said that my thoughts were the minority, when in reality, my thoughts had plenty of folks in agreement with them. There were 3-4 different thoughts in that thread - not just one majority and one minority. 99.9% of topics are going to be that way.

 

Some things are also just ALWAYS going to be hotbutton topics - especially on message boards where you can't hear tone of voice. Breastfeeding, spanking, religion, politics, morals, and many others.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

 

Maybe you should stop complaining about the sad state of society until you can refrain from contributing to it.

 

Ah,. Hardly seems like the sort of thing to get your panties in a bunch about.

 

Well unfortunately, and you obviously don't see it the same way I do, the nastiness started in the OP. If you start a thread out in a nasty way, it will be a nasty thread.

 

If this thread were truly about consideration of others, it would not have begun by insulting other people who frequent these boards.

 

As for your right to support, and the OP's right to support...of course you deserve that! I think you'd get more of it too, if only you wouldn't insult others in the process of seeking support.

 

Yes, be nice, indeed. And yes, sometimes saying nothing is better than commenting. Or starting a thread out by insulting people.

 

 

 

No matter how many times you call my remarks nasty or insulting, I am not going to engage you on this. People can decide on their own how they feel about the original post.

 

But, thank you. Your comments so eloquently prove the point that I was trying to make.

[Pretty in Pink]

I'm honestly not all that concerned with what the herd is doing or even who is in the herd and who isn't! Wow. I have enough to keep myself occupied without fussing over whether somebody answers their phone or lets it go to voicemail when I call. I also try to give others the benefit of the doubt.

[OH_Homeschooler]

No matter how many times you call my remarks nasty or insulting, I am not going to engage you on this. People can decide on their own how they feel about the original post.

 

But, thank you. Your comments so eloquently prove the point that I was trying to make.

 

I was not trying to engage you, I was referring to repeated quotes from my own posts.

 

And you're welcome. I do believe you're making quite the statement of your own.

 

I was not calling you nasty by the way. I do think that perhaps the pot is calling the kettle black in your OP, and THAT was the point I was trying to make. But I suppose you are another person with whom I will have to agree to disagree.

[hillfarm]

I'm honestly not all that concerned with what the herd is doing or even who is in the herd and who isn't!

 

Herd, what herd? Am I responsible for feeding them? Is the gate closed? Have they had their health check? Do they have enough water?

 

Seriously guys, take a deep breath and remember what my dh tells me when I get riled up about something online. These are my imaginary friends. It accomplishes nothing for me to try to convert them to my point of view. If we have a significant disagreement, then I can learn from it by reexamining my own position to see if I am off base, or I can learn from the challenge to express myself in a clear way that furthers communication rather than stalling it.

 

ETA: 16 new chicks hatched out during my watch today! I have enjoyed the opportunity to participate in this thread. I wish I got put on chick watch more often.

Edited September 10, 2009 by hillfarm

[hsmom3tn]

I'm not the type of person to stand chatting with a neighbor over the fence. I'll say hi, wish the weather would cool down, your yard is looking great, but that's probably about it. I'm not a chatterer IRL. I've got my home, my children, my dh, and that's where I spend my time. I don't talk on the phone other than for business. Yes, I've been known not to answer the phone. If someone leaves a message, I will get back with them. Sometimes I have to prepare myself - like with my sister. :D

 

But that doesn't mean I won't leave my gate unlocked if your pump goes out and you need to get water, it doesn't mean I won't water your garden while your gone. If there's a death in the family, I'll bring over food and attend the funeral to support you. If there's a new baby, same thing. I'll keep your child for several days so you can make a trip out of town. I'll stop and let you out in traffic and if you have a couple items and I have a cart full, I'll let you go in front of me. I'll share my produce gladly and bring you a plate of cookies at Christmas (well, maybe not, since that one thread awhile back). I'll pray for you, too. Just don't expect too much idle chatter, cause that I don't do well.

 

Janet

 

Wow it sounds like you're describing me :) I am learning and trying to be more considerate so that my children can learn from my example. I am happy to help with something if I can, but I am not outgoing at all so most people don't know that about me. I also have a hard time seeing things from more than my own point of view. I'm sure this sounds corny, but I have learned so much from my short time on this forum.

 

I have been reading this thread but wasn't going to respond because I wasn't sure of what to say. I find myself agreeing with bits and pieces from all POV's.

 

As for the BF'ing, it personally doesn't bother me to see it or for my children to see it. It took me a while to get there, though. In my childhood, around my relatives, it was not done or talked about... unless a stranger was spotted while BF'ing and then there would be gossip for days about how inappropriate it was. I had my first child at a young age and I did not even attempt it, we just used formula. As natural as it is, it wasn't natural to me. By the time I got pregnant again, I was more open to the idea (because of spending more time with other moms who weren't relatives of mine). That second pregnancy turned out to be twins, though, and I chickened out and used formula for them, too. This, and the fact that both of my deliveries were C-sections sometimes fill me with regret, as if I am less of a mother or just missed out on something really special. :(

 

Anyway, I don't want my children to grow up thinking that BF'ing is wrong, like I did. I wouldn't want them to see nudity in sexual or seductive content; but it doesn't bother me for them to see it in a natural way, whether it is in person or in art. I don't know if that makes sense or not. One reason I don't talk to people much is because I struggle with my words.

 

I always put my cart away (or my son does it for me); but after the infamous shopping cart thread, I now try not to judge others who don't. If we see a stray, we will use it or put it away. If we see a mother struggling with getting her kids into a car and also has a cart to deal with, we will offer to take it for her. This would not have occurred to me to do before reading that thread. Sad, but true.

 

As far as the road rage, I will definitely have to remember the diarrhea thing. :lol: My temper and manners are the worst when I am in traffic. While I'm getting better at stopping to let people out, or letting people pass me, I still need a lot of work on consideration in this area!

 

I guess I should read the thread about being anti-social, as I may be able to learn something there, too. :D

[Blessedfamily]

....

 

Shoppers Food Warehouse....Fredericksburg, VA. I'm walking through the frozen food section and BAM! There's a mom walking around with her shirt wide open, everything hanging out...and her baby trying to nurse, but it's tricky with mom reaching in and out of the freezer. The kid wanted breastmilk, not ice cream! :lol: (Bad joke, trying to lighten the mood) Maybe not a very common site, but it does happen.

 

I've shopped there and never gotten to see that. I think the problem lay in that she is actually trying to bfeed, you might've caught her at an akward moment, but it seemed as though you were describing women just sauntering around breasts flying everywhere and baby set aside.

 

I had no idea we were so close (distance wise). Lol, be glad I'm an introvert then, or you could be stuck meeting me (heaven forbid :lol:).

 

 

ETA FYI, Fredricksburg is not full of women running around topless. Go to a first night celebration and the height of craziness ensues once the pear drops. Yes, the pear. We're not talking about a crazy, party sort of place.

 

Now go south a few miles to King's Dominion. I was there with my family on a packed day, when a woman sat down to nurse, unbuttoned her blouse, and let her entire breast hang out while she conversed with a friend before and after she nursed. And she was in the middle of the "avenue" that everyone walks down entering the park. I've never seen that kind of a display before or after.

[ereks mom]

...it seems like thinking of others' needs and feelings is pretty much a lost art in our society.

 

 

 

Dh & I call this "there's-no-one-in-the-world-but-me syndrome" -- and it applies pretty equally to those people who cut in front of you in line at the store, to those who drive 40 mph in a 55 mph area with a long line of cars behind them on a road that has no place to pass, to those who take up 2 parking spaces in a crowded parking lot because they parked crooked, to those who play their music so loud that you can't hear your own music inside your car with the windows rolled up, and so on...

[OnTheBrink]

 

A)I haven't read this book, but really - is that fair to men? They're hard-wired to be aroused, so seeing a breast means automatically they're aroused? Wow. That's unfair. I know many, many, MANY men that aren't that base. You do too. The men I know and go to church with and live in my neighborhood with know that a breastfeeding mom isn't working her wicked wiles on him and instead think it's great that you're feeding the baby (and keeping it quiet so he can continue worshipping/talking to you/enjoying his meal without a screaming fussy baby in his ear).

 

B)And I personally am not very interested in men desiring me for my body. I would much prefer to be desired for my mind. My body will change a lot over time, not for the better. My mind will. :)

 

C)And again, breastfeeding in public IS mostly done modestly with respect and descretion.

 

A) I was speaking in generalities. And, yes, GENERALLY SPEAKING, I do believe men are aroused when seeing breasts.

 

B) Ok.

 

C) Mostly ≠ always. I was addressing the issue of those out there in the world who don't bf discreetly.

[OnTheBrink]

Hey, was this the book that talked about men creating a mental rolladex of all the women that they see or have been with or something to that effect?

 

If so, this is exactly what I talk to my boys about. If they spend time looking at naked women/ s*xual images they may be setting themselves up to be in a position where no individual real woman can live up to the expectations or the image that lives in their mind.

 

Mandy

 

That would be the one! I particularly liked it because the author spoke with and surveyed all sorts of men, not just Christian men, or religious men, or married men, etc.

[Lovedtodeath]

A) I was speaking in generalities. And, yes, GENERALLY SPEAKING, I do believe men are aroused when seeing breasts.

 

B) Ok.

 

C) Mostly ≠ always. I was addressing the issue of those out there in the world who don't bf discreetly.

If breastfeeding offends you or makes you feel uncomfortable... don't look! Most of the time you can ascertain that someone is breastfeeding and then choose not to look! If breastfeeding arouses a man, so what? Is it my problem that something unsexual arouses him? What if cowboy boots arouse him? What if my 7 year old arouses him? What if my 16 year old niece arouses him? What if he is aroused by my mother's tight dress that she wears grocery shopping?

 

Men aroused by breastfeeding is not my problem.

 

It is not my right to wear perfume or smoke if it will affect your asthmatic kid. The kid has no choice. There is a huge difference.

[Saille]

I used to think about this a lot when dh and I were first married. We moved to a small town, and many of the people there commuted to a larger city nearby. It seemed to me that people self-isolated a lot. Most people (including us, but we did actively try) didn't know their neighbors well or spend time with them. When you live somewhere central enough to get everything you need at the 24 hr. store, and all your acquaintances live all over because you know them from work, it's easy for your daily interactions to become very impersonal, which makes it hard to see the other person's point of view.

 

Moving to a place that wasn't such a commuter town, having kids, and eventually moving someplace much more rural really demonstrated to me how interdependence leads to neighborliness.

[OnTheBrink]

If breastfeeding offends you or makes you feel uncomfortable... don't look! Most of the time you can ascertain that someone is breastfeeding and then choose not to look! If breastfeeding arouses a man, so what? Is it my problem that something unsexual arouses him? What if cowboy boots arouse him? What if my 7 year old arouses him? What if my 16 year old niece arouses him? What if he is aroused by my mother's tight dress that she wears grocery shopping?

 

Men aroused by breastfeeding is not my problem.

 

It is not my right to wear perfume or smoke if it will affect your asthmatic kid. The kid has no choice. There is a huge difference.

 

Are you trying to misunderstand everything I'm saying?

 

I never said, nor implied, I was offended by breastfeeding. Good lord.

 

Your whole post proves the OP's point.

[Mrs. Frankweiler]

Wow it sounds like you're describing me :) I am learning and trying to be more considerate so that my children can learn from my example. I am happy to help with something if I can, but I am not outgoing at all so most people don't know that about me. I also have a hard time seeing things from more than my own point of view. I'm sure this sounds corny, but I have learned so much from my short time on this forum.

 

 

 

I've learned a lot too....most importantly.....never, ever start a thread having anything remotely to do with breastfeeding. ;)

 

As far as the road rage, I will definitely have to remember the diarrhea thing. :lol: My temper and manners are the worst when I am in traffic. While I'm getting better at stopping to let people out, or letting people pass me, I still need a lot of work on consideration in this area

 

 

This cracked me up too....thanks, Mrs. Mungo. Whenever I'm in an impatient driver situation I used to think, "Maybe they're having a baby and trying to get to the hospital." Now I will chuckle when I think of....explosive diarrhea.

[HRAAB]

 

As far as the road rage, I will definitely have to remember the diarrhea thing. :lol: My temper and manners are the worst when I am in traffic. While I'm getting better at stopping to let people out, or letting people pass me, I still need a lot of work on consideration in this area!

 

 

This was a huge area for me. I mean I thought the most awful thoughts about people on the road. It was so bad, I talked to a priest friend one time about it. He suggested trying to remember to say a short prayer for the other driver; maybe their kid was sick, late for an important appointment, whatever. Sort of like the diarrhea story in another post. The first few times I about choked on it, but it got easier. Now it's not so hard, usually. I try to remember to extend a little grace to the other person. It keeps getting easier although I've still got some huge mountains to climb.

 

Janet

[Miss Marple]

"there's-no-one-in-the-world-but-me syndrome"

 

:iagree:

[Guest janainaz]

I agree with what you said also.

 

It's about being a peacemaker and that requires you to consider wether or not your actions are promoting peace or creating conflict. Esteeming others as higher than yourself does not mix with a self-centered focus. If our society was more bent on seeing the good in others, being able to identify with what makes us one rather than what divides, there would be more peace. Laying down your life for others or picking up your cross means giving up the fight. This is not to say I don't believe in standing up for what is right, but most conflicts could be avoided if a little love was mixed in. It is very freeing to not taking others too seriously and accept that, like it or not, our society is made up of other human beings that don't always think, feel, and believe the way that we do. If we ever want to open up the ears of someone else, love, mercy and tolerance is the way. Insisting that our way is the right way will do quite the opposiite.

 

I think that many people, even the ones who are trying to "do" right, are not in touch with the feelings of others. We have become very self-focused. The little clothing tag line, "It's all about me" comes to mind. Not a healthy mentality!

[lionfamily1999]

Now go south a few miles to King's Dominion. I was there with my family on a packed day, when a woman sat down to nurse, unbuttoned her blouse, and let her entire breast hang out while she conversed with a friend before and after she nursed. And she was in the middle of the "avenue" that everyone walks down entering the park. I've never seen that kind of a display before or after.

Oh c'mon now, I've never seen people that made we wish I'd never left home at King's Dominion :lol:

 

You can get YEARS worth of icky people experience just parking the car there!

 

I remember being little, back when it was still Hannah Barbara and how clean and nice everything was. Sigh... back in the day when the area around the eiffel tower didn't stink of urine :(

[Lovedtodeath]

Are you trying to misunderstand everything I'm saying?

 

I never said, nor implied, I was offended by breastfeeding. Good lord.

I am sorry. :grouphug: For the record I didn't mean you I meant "you" in the general sense.

:chillpill:

[justamouse]

This was a huge area for me. I mean I thought the most awful thoughts about people on the road. It was so bad, I talked to a priest friend one time about it. He suggested trying to remember to say a short prayer for the other driver; maybe their kid was sick, late for an important appointment, whatever. Sort of like the diarrhea story in another post. The first few times I about choked on it, but it got easier. Now it's not so hard, usually. I try to remember to extend a little grace to the other person. It keeps getting easier although I've still got some huge mountains to climb.

 

Janet

 

 

Please give the other driver a break. Once I was rushing to the hosp with a sick kid only to have the man in front of me SLOW DOWN 10 mph below the speed limit and then give me the finger. And he drove that way for MILES. No, I couldn't pass, either.

 

Then, it actually happened AGAIN. I was blinking my lights--everything, I even tried yelling that I had to get to the hosp. Nope. They decided I was some jerk and made that ride hell for us. My son had burned his arms and face and he was crying in pain next to me. It was horrible.

[jubulibee]

My post was referring to mothers who literally walk around with their breasts hanging out so that their baby can feed as needed. Like it or not, this is offensive to people.

 

 

I have never seen this! But if I did, I wouldn't be offended, but I can see how some people could be uncomfortable.

[Nakia]

You know what bothers me most about breast feeding debates when it comes to public feedings?

 

The implication, or out right stated that men cannot control themselves. Those poor unfortunates that are simple slaves to their hormones, we must do nothing to provoke them to the brink of helpless arousal.

 

Huh.

 

As the mother of sons, the wife of a husband, I find the whole idea that men are helpless to their hormones and must be protected to be insulting. Otherwise, we shouldn't allow the poor simple minded souls out of the house. There might be someone scantily clad in an advertisement that puts him over the edge...or a provocatively dressed woman at work or on the street, and he may be helplessly led to an affair, since he's controlled by his hormones, the poor simpleton. :glare:

 

Girl, I am so glad you said this. I don't have sons, but I do have a husband. I think it is insulting to him to say that there is no way a man can control himself around a woman breastfeeding her baby.

 

And to the op, it is a pretty far stretch to compare someone cussing around a child and a mother nursing her infant. I mean, seriously??

[newlifemom]

A couple weeks ago I was at a children's museum and a very large woman( I am large, she was very large) Started nursing a very young infant. So young it really is hard to do discreetly. (Personally, I like to go somewhere a touch more private for that age) Any way, I don't know what she was wearing, but all I could see was skin and boobs and a teeny tiny little baby. I thought well that is her right and I will not deny it, but honestly she glared around the entire place as if to say try and stop me. That bothered me. Of course if we take the whole diarrhea concept one step further, maybe her glare wasn't what I thought it was. Maybe, the sun was in her eyes. Maybe the baby was so young but her other child had begged to take her somewhere b/c mommy had been on bedrest for 6 months so even though little one still needed that almost naked nursing older sis needed a day out and that trumped little one. I don't know. But a lot of you are making rethink my attitude and I would like to think that plowing through how many pages of this thread has made me just a little more compassionate.

 

Of course, only time will tell if it does. I hope so.